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Dr. Drew
Donald Trump In A "War Of Words" With Jeb Bush; Donald Trump Suggesting The September 11th Attacks May Not Have Happened If Only He Had Been In The White House; Police Takedown Caught On Tape -- Were Two Young Men Handcuffed For Merely Having Been Black?; The Family Of The Affluenza Kid`s Surviving Passengers Filed A Lawsuit; A Small Town in Ohio, A Body Hanging Outside Somebody`s Fence, And Everyone Thought It Was Just A Dummy; Former NBA Star Off Of Ventilator, Breathing On His Own; TMZ Reports That Doctors In Fact Found Traces Of Opiates And Cocaine In Lamar`s Body
Aired October 19, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:13] DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, Donald Trump in a "War of Words" with Jeb Bush. The billionaire says, "He would have prevented
9/11." No big deal, easy to that. Plus, I have a police takedown caught on tape -- were two young men handcuffed for merely having been black?
It all starts right now at the "Top of the Feed." Donald Trump suggesting the September 11th attacks may not have happened if only he had been in the
White House. He was taking a swipe at George W. Bush. Jeb Bush responds. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Jeb said, "We were safe with my brother. We were safe." Well, the World Trade Center just fell down. Am
I trying to blame him? I am not blaming anybody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: When you talk about George Bush, I mean, say what you want. The World Trade Center came down during his time.
STEPHANIE RUHLE, BLOOMBERG TELEVISION ANCHOR: Hold on, you cannot blame George Bush for that.
TRUMP: He was president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEB BUSH, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My brother responded to a crisis, and he did it as you would hope a president would do. He united the
country. He organized our country and he kept us safe. There is no denying that. The great majority of Americans believe that. Ad, I do not
know why he keeps bringing this up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I am extremely tough on people coming into this country. I believe that if I were running things, I doubt those families would have -- I doubt
that those people would have been in the country. I am not blaming George Bush, but I do not want Jeb Bush to say, "My brother kept us safe," because
September 11th was one of the worst days in the history of this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And, we are in CNN Center tonight in New York City. Joining me, Evy Poumpouras, former special agent secret agent and security expert. I
got Jenny Hutt, Xirius XM Radio Host. Sunny Hostin, CNN Legal Analyst.
Paul Mercurio, host of the podcast, "The Paul Mercurio Show" and Rob Smith, Iraq War Veteran, author of "Closets, Combat and Coming Out." And, on the
phone, I have Erin Elmore, former "Apprentice" contestanat. I am going to go out to Evy first and ask, could anyone have prevented 9/11?
EVY POUMPOURAS, FORMER SPECIAL AGENT SECRET AGENT AND SECURITY EXPERT: The 9/11 attacks did not have anything to do with the president. It had to do
with the failure in the communication. And, if you look at the 9/11 commissioner report, you will see that there was inadequacies in the way we
did our enforcement here in the United States --
PINSKY: But -- but, hang on --
POUMPOURAS: -- as far as collecting intelligence.
PINSKY: Evy, I think Mr. Trump would say, "Well, if I have been in charge, none of that would have broken down."
POUMPOURAS: No.
PINSKY: We would be winning. We would be winning.
POUMPOURAS: Yes, but these attacks had been set in motion for years prior to. This is something that was set in motion many, many years ago.
President Bush or whoever the president would have been at that time was just happened to be the recipient of when this happened.
PINSKY: But, Paul -- Paul, the crazy thing to me about what Trump says, whenever he says something, I feel like he has an uncanny knack for putting
other people in the position of saying, "Essentially, I know you are, but what am I?"
PAUL MERCURIO, HOST OF, "THE PAUL MERCURIO SHOW" PODCAST: Exactly. This is tit-for-tat. This is not the Lincoln Douglas debate. This is Nicki
Minaj and Miley Cyrus going at it. The hubris of this guy -- Look, what is he going to do -- how would you stop terrorism if -- what? Is he going to
build a sky wall? What is he talking about?
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Does he care, Jenny? Does it matter what the actual policy is going to be?
JENNY HUTT, XIRIUS XM RADIO HOST: No. I --
MECURIO: It should.
HUTT: It does not matter to him at all, Dr. Drew, and I think --
PINSKY: But does it matter to the voters is the problem?
HUTT: Well, no, it does not, because he is sort of like the Kardashian candidate.
(LAUGHING)
MECURIO: Right.
HUTT: He got to answers Reality T.V. --
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: They are winning. Sunny, they are winning.
SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, the bottom line is, though, I really think that, Donald Trump has somehow plugged into -- I think
hundreds of thousands of people that feel disenfranchised, that feel that their country have been taken away from them, and he is speaking their
language. And, I do not think we can discount that, because months ago all of you would have said he would not be here today --
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Wait. Rules, guys. Rules, guys.
MECURIO: Yes.
PINSKY: Do not talk over each other. I love everyone jumping on each other, but not over each other. Paul?
MECURIO: But, it is the way he says it. My uncle had a barbershop. He talks like the guys in the barbershop, OK?
PINSKY: Right.
MECURIO: But, then, what comes out of his mouth is crazy town. He has no experience to deal with terrorism. His -- up to this point dealing with
hostile foreigners for him was negotiating a prenup agreement. This guy has no sense of reality.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: But, Rob, if people are tired of the language police --
ROB SMITH, IRAQ WAR VETERAN: No --
PINSKY: -- do not you think that he sort of speaks his mind and therefore they go with it?
SMITH: So, look, people like Trump because he does speak his mind. And, let me ask you this. If Donald Trump did not say anything about Jeb Bush`s
comment, who else would have called him out on it that?
HUTT: Right.
SMITH: You know, this is honestly something that would have happened, everybody would have kind of just let it go. Donald Trump called him out
on that. This is what people enjoy about Donald Trump. This is why people like him. This is why he is polling so high. This is why there is so many
people at the rally.
HUTT: I mean --
PINSKY: Jenny, I will give you -- Jenny, I will have you comment on this.
HUTT: Yes.
PINSKY: Let me just show you Jeb Bush has serious doubt about Trump`s ability to be Commander-in-Chief. Have a look at his latest ad.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TODD CHUCK, NBC HOST OF "MEET THE PRESS" PROGRAM: Who do you talk to for military advice, right now?
TRUMP: Well, I watch the shows. I mean I really see a lot of great -- you know, when you watch your show and all the other shows --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: He has said publicly that he watches cable news, and that is one of the ways he bones up on our national security.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[21:05:02] Trump says he, quote, "Always felt that I was in the military." Despite never serving in the military and draft deferments during Vietnam.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: There is nobody bigger or better at the military than I am.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Donald Trump is causing a race towards the bottom.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: It is delusional. Mr. Trump did not have a firm grasp of what was really going on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I will be so good at the military, your head will spin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: But, Jenny -- Jenny, I am not sure --
HUTT: He will be good in the military.
PINSKY: I am not sure the public cares. They just want somebody, who says "I am going to do this."
HUTT: Yes, but here is something he is saying, "I am going to do this by hiring other people to do it for me." He wants to be president to delegate
his presidency.
PINSKY: That is what Reagan did.
HUTT: It is not OK.
PINSKY: Reagan did a lot of that. But, Erin, I am going to go to you. You are a supporter of Mr. Trump. What is it he is tapped into?
ERIN ELMORE, FORMER "APPRENTICE" CONTESTANT (via phone): Well, I think he is fixing a broken political system. People are tired of the same rhetoric
and hearing the same people that are little windup to what is going on and on about rhetoric, just like beauty pageant queen. The reality show star
-- Actually, he is a reality show star that probably has the stuff to make this happen.
PINSKY: Rob, you are smiling.
ELMORE: Yes. People are really, really sick of what is going on in Washington, and he is a breath of fresh air in a broken system.
SMITH: You know, actually -- you know, I think she is absolutely right. Like I said, the reason that people are into Trump because he has this
bluster, he has all of this confidence. And, to tell you the truth, our president is a figurehead, right? He is a leader, whoever -- he or she is
going to be a leader. Whoever is elected is going to have a lot of people --
(CROSSTALK)
HUTT: But, you know what? I think --
SMITH: -- whose jobs are to be very knowledgeable about this thing.
PINSKY: Wait, Jenny, I think -- there is one person who has been in the White House in this room. I believe that is Evy.
(LAUGHING)
HUTT: Yes.
SMITH: Right. Right.
PINSKY: Maybe she could straighten us all out here.
POUMPOURAS: I just kind of bang of what you said, Jenny. The truth is, what you are saying is correct. The president is a figurehead, he or she,
maybe --
PISKY: Right.
POUMPOURAS: There is no way for them to know everything. They are as strong as the people that they hire. And, in the White House, there is a
large population of people that work there with specific tasks, specialization, information. The president, the cabinet members, they hire
the right people. They bring them in. There is no way for the president to know everything --
HOSTIN: But, Evy, is it true through that the president has the last word? Right? We are talking about the Commander-in-Chief, and I think what is
scary for me -- and I have worked in the government, as you know.
POUMPOURAS: Yes.
HOSTIN: What scary for me at least is I think when you are wanting to vote for a president, the discussion needs to be elevated.
POUMPOURAS: Yes.
HOSTIN: It should not be somebody -- it should be somebody certainly smarter than me.
PINSKY: Exactly.
HOSTIN: I do not understand why, you know, people have this view of him as this incredible leader, when all he is doing is, "Oh, I am the best. I am
so great. I am so fabulous."
MECURIO: Right.
SMITH: Exactly.
HOSTIN: I want a higher level of discussion. I want real issues. I want to focus on the issues and I want to hear what his real point of view --
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: But, the Americans want Paul`s uncle at the barbershop.
MECURIO: No. We are not voting for Prom King here. We are voting for president. And, for Erin to say, "Well, he is going to fix the system." I
do not know what he is going to do. This guy has no plan. He has no skill sets.
(CROSSTALK)
Look, he went bankrupt four times, and there is -- where he says, "I went bankrupt. You know what I do? I debate the debt. I negotiate the debt.
It goes away. Just like the Apprentice, it is not personal, it is business."
HUTT: Yes.
MECURIO: This is the guy that is going to be president?
HUTT: Yes. Dr. Drew --
PINSKY: Jenny.
HUTT: Here is what I am going to say, you guys. Both of what you says very true. The delegating, it may happen a lot of the time. What you have
said, Sunny, you do not want the him ultimate decisions --
HOSTIN: The bus stops there.
HUTT: Here is the situation. We may go to war, and he has the opportunity to press a red button. "That country is losers. Let me nuke. Let me do
this. Let me do that." You want him there?
HOSTIN: I do not.
SMITH: No. I do not.
PINSKY: Erin --
SMITH: But, we are not saying that he is going to be that person making the decision. There are going to be so many more people that are there
that are more informed about these issues if he even gets there. Right?
(CROSSTALK)
MECURIO: He is choosing the people who advise him. He is choosing those people.
HOSTIN: The bus stops there.
PINSKY: Erin, what do you say? What do you say to critics like these guys?
ELMORE: OK. First of all, Donald Trump is a very successful CEO. George Bush was not a very good president/CEO, because he had the CIA. He has the
FBI telling him, there are credible threats regarding 9/11, and he did not act on them.
Therefore, everything the words that you hear he saying and talking about is true. Because what Donald Trump said is true. He is a CEO and CEO have
vice presidents all over that are going to help them.
PINSKY: All right.
ELMORE: Donald Trump knows how to command --
PINSKY: I got to cut this off. erin, I have to cut you off, I have to go to break.
ELMORE: -- smart people that will help him.
PINSKY: Erin, I got to cut you off. I got to go to break. Conversation goes on. Later on, I got two men, who were handcuffed by a police, and the
question is, was it just because they were African-American? Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[21:13:00] UNIDENTIFIED DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump that carnival barker in the Republican Party.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: It looks as though he is not taking the responsibility -- the possibility of being President of the United States very seriously.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Which candidate can best handle the economy, OK?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: Across the spectrum of foreign policy, Mr. Trump talks about things that as though he is still on the apprentice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We want to take in 200,000 Syrians, right? And, they could be -- Listen, they could be ISIS, I do not know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: He is an actor playing a role of a candidate for president, not boning up on the issues. Not having a broad sense of the responsibilities
of what it is to be president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They want to give me millions of dollars, I do not want it. Because, if I take, I got to be like Jeb Bush. I got to be like Rubio. I
got to be like all these guys, and I got to do who they tell me to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That is another thing we have not talked about. He is disconnected from special interests, which is appealing in and of itself.
Back with Evy, Jenny, Sunny, Rob and Paul. And, Paul is appearing at the Comedy Castle in Royal Oak, Michigan this weekend. Be sure not to miss
that.
Also, I still got Erin on the phone. Erin, is it that people are just or so sick of the system and the status quo and the language police and all
the frustrations of an economy that is sort of bogged down that they prefer a political outsider?
ELMORE (via phone): I think that is the case, absolutely. They see someone that is new, that actually gives their true opinion, and it is sort
of refreshing. It sort of gives them something to look forward to and be excited about. And, I think that is why the numbers are not lying. The
polls are what they are. He is leading because he is different and people are liking what he has to say.
[21:15:05] PINSKY: And, I got too say, guys, when we do a show with an audience, Sunny --
HOSTIN: Sure.
PINSKY: You will be surprised. I am always surprise. I actually have to get off my chair and go up and stand next to these people because they are
so not what whom I expect to be supporting Donald Trump.
HOSTIN: Yes.
PINSKY: They are often women. They are often to be people of color, and I am like -- and they are often not republicans.
HOSTIN: Uh-huh.
PINSKY: And, I am asking them, what is it? What does he tapped into here? I really do not have a horse in the race right now. I have not really
decided what I am going to do, but I am fascinated by the people he is pulled in, because he is tapping into something.
And, it is something on the order of what he does with the other candidates and other people who has take issue with, which is again, he -- He says
something outrageous and he forces them to say, like I said, "I know you are, but what am I?" And, so they seemed diminished by his outrageous
comments.
HOSTIN: I think it is very much a sense of people that are powerless. I think, again, they feel disenfranchised, and he is speaking their language.
PINSKY: Unifying.
HOSTIN: And, they are --
PINSKY: Unifying people.
HOSTIN: He is unifying people, and I do not think just one or two people. I am talking hundreds of thousands of people. And, I think -- I am going
to project.
PINSKY: Yes?
HOSTIN: He will be the republican candidate.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Well, the National Review --
HOSTIN: He will be.
PINSKY: Listen, guys.
HOSTIN: He will be.
PINSKY: The National Review just came out and conceited that. They said, you know, he is actually been in the lead. People are frequently come in
the lead and stay there for a few weeks and drop out. He has been in the lead longer than there is time remaining before the first votes are cast.
HOSTIN: He will be. No question.
MECURIO: There is a fact that there is a group of people that find his message that resonates with them, that is fine.
HOSTIN: Hundreds of thousands of them.
MECURIO: That is fine. That does not mean they are all right. This is a guy who is like, you seen out grandpa that goes, "The man in Taco Bell was
breaking into my dreams. And, he does not want to be accountable for anything he says.
HUTT: That is so true.
MECURIO: And, at some point, I think the American public and the hundreds of thousands are flirting with him, right? They say, "You go on a date. I
am not really into the guy." "Go on." But, when it comes to the voting booth in November, they are not going to pull that out.
PINSKY: Jenny says no. Jenny says they will.
HUTT: First of all, and I think there is a danger sometimes in charisma being what gets people to vote.
MECURIO: Right.
HUTT: There have been leaders historically, who are quite charismatic, who did horrible things. I am not going to make a name comparison or two.
But, think about it.
(LAUGHING)
HOSTIN: Yes.
PINSKY: Right. No, I know. And, listen, I made a funny with Paul last night. I said if I have been in Germany -- Well, I do not want to make a
comparison. Well, there is times in history, where I am sure I have been there going, "That guy? No way!"
HUTT: Right.
PINSKY: Evy, you know what I mean? I mean things happen in history. I am not equating people.
POUMPOURAS: Yes. I mean he is pretty unbelievable.
PINSKY: Listen. By the way, Ronald Reagan was the same way, by the way. It was very -- you know, things have gone in good directions too because of
outsiders.
MECURIO: But, he had experience. He ran a state.
PINSKY: He was not --
(CROSTALK)
SMITH: I am not being controversial --
HOSTIN: One second. What I think is scary to me is what we are all talking about before, which is he is going to hire really smart people.
And, he is just a figure head, so these smart people are really going to run the country. The bottom line is, this is the guy that gets the vote.
This is the guy that gets to sign the executive order. This is the guy that has a Veto power.
HUTT : Yes.
HOSTIN: This is the guy that gets to press the button. And, so people really, voters have to think, this is not just the figurehead, this is the
leader of the free world. And, do we want someone like Donald Trump with that amount of power?
PINSKY: And, Evy, to be fair, what that person is asked to do, the leader, is to apply judgment, right? He may not have experience, he may not have
knowledge, but they are asked to apply their judgment. That is the most important thing. And, we really do not know, we do not have a track
record.
MECURIO: You know --
POUMPOURAS: If I may.
PINSKY: Yes sure.
POUMPOURAS: It is not just judgment. I think when you are -- it is not -- And, he is a great -- he can be a great CEO as Erin said, but this is a
leadership position. It is not about managing people. You have to be a leader and have those leadership qualities.
I remember working in the White House and you walk by the portrait of, you know, John F. Kennedy, or the other individuals in there. You think
Abraham Lincoln, George Washington, you are thinking, is he of that caliber?
HOSTIN: No, of course not.
HUTT: No.
POUMPOURAS: Or is it -- or is it that he got this great connection with people through T.V., through media, because we all know, we are on T.V.,
that this --
SMITH: He is a hypocrite.
POUMPOURAS: -- connection we have really does something else with the public. Is that -- because he got that medium and he is just that good at
connecting with people?
HOSTIN: Definitely.
SMITH: OK. Look. So, he is a hypocrite. He is this or that. I am going to tell you what I hope happens. I hope that he actually runs as an
independent. This is what I hope.
HOSTIN: If he does not get the nod.
SMITH: If he does not get the nomination, which I do not believe he will. I hope that he runs as an independent not because I am endorsing him, not
because I am rah, rah Trump, because I believe as an American, as someone who served this country, we deserve more than two choices for our
president. We deserve more than just a democrat and just a republican. Believe that if he runs as an independent, he is going to blow the race
wide open. And, do we not deserve more choices in our candidates?
MECURIO: Well, but I think the scrutiny, hopefully, will -- scrutiny will win the day. He is a hypocrite. He does not want to be called on his own
failures. He is not a great CEO. He went bankrupt four times.
PINSKY: Yes, but let us --
HUTT: That is my point.
MECURIO: If I went on stage and bombed four times, I have an issue as a comic. OK? It is not somebody that wants to be accountable. He is like
the mean girl president. He is like --
HUTT: Everybody is a loser.
MECURIO: It is like I say to you, "Hey, you know, you date a lot of guys." "What do you mean? You are calling me a slut." "I am not saying. I am
just saying you dated a lot of guys."
(CROSSTALK)
[21:20:00] SMITH: But, my question is, what does it say about, "Where we are right now as America?" Somebody like him is so popular right now.
(CROSSTALK)
HUTT: But, Rob --
SMITH: What you are not understanding is that, there are a lot of people in America --
HUTT: But Rob --
SMITH: -- not in L.A. --
HUTT: Rob.
SMITH: -- not in New York, these are people that are really agreeing with what he is saying.
HUTT: OK, but --
SMITH: He is connecting with them in a way that no other candidate is.
PINSKY: And, they are passionate -- we filled our audience studio with Trump supporters, and they are passionate --
HOSTIN: Absolutely.
PINSKY: They are engaged. They love the fact that he is freeing them to speak their mind freeing them to believe in themselves, freeing themselves
to think that there is something unique about being America, that we can win again. That is all very inspiring.
HUTT: Are we losing?
PINSKY: That is their feeling.
HUTT: I mean who took America?
POUMPOURAS: Right.
(CROSSTALK)
SMITH: It is not about -- it is not about America is losing, we are behind in a lot of different ways right now.
(CROSSTALK)
HOSTIN: We are being honest.
SMITH: We are behind in a lot of different ways right now.
HOSTIN: We are being honest. I think he is tapped into people that are upset that Obama -- President Obama, an African-American man has been the
president for eight years.
No one wants to talk about that at cocktail parties, and no one wants to talk about it on television. But, the bottom line is, who are the people
that feel America has been taken from them? Who are the people that feel that America is losing?
HUTT: Right.
HOSTIN: The people that are upset that this African-American man has been president for eight years.
PINSKY: Sunny, I would send you back to my audience, when I stood up next to African-American women --
HOSTIN: That is an anomaly.
PINSKY: Well, they keep standing up in my audience.
HOSTIN: It is a fringe factor.
PINSKY: It is a fudge factor?
HUTT: Fringe.
HOSTIN: Fringe factor.
SMITH: Doing these people a disservice by saying that this is a candidacy that is totally made up of racists and people that are xenophobic --
HUTT: Are disenfranchised people.
SMITH: And people that are disenfranchised.
HUTT: It is true.
SMITH: I believe that you are doing the American people a disservice. I truly do.
MECURIO: But, you are not holding the American people to a standard that this guy has to meet some level of qualification. I am having a problem
that people resonate with his message, but you still have to -- there is a two part analyses.
And, the second part is, "Hey, dude, are you qualified to paint the house?" Like if I said to Trump, "Let me build a casino for a billion dollars.
Give me the money." He would be like, "What? Are you crazy? You have no experience."
POUMPOURAS: Well, then, you know what?
SMITH: And, what makes them not qualified?
POUMPOURAS: Maybe there is something with our standards as Americans -- if I can say this.
PINSKY: Yes, go ahead.
POUMPOURAS: Then, maybe there is something with us as Americans. What are our standards? Have we dropped our standards --
PINSKY: Right.
SMITH: Well, good point.
PINSKY: I know that.
POUMPOURAS: So, maybe we are changing as a population.
PINSKY: I got to get out. But this was supposed to be -- you know, come true, we the reran -- the public ran, and he is part of the public. And, I
do not know -- do they zap your professional class that runs our government? There have been weirder things in the history of America.
There are weirder stuffs. That is all I am saying.
Next up, caught on tape. Two black men -- Two African-American men are handcuffed after police -- and then police take them down. The question is
it because they were black, they were taken down the way they were. What are authorities doing? Have they gone too far? We will talk about that
after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JASON GOOLSBY, 18-YEAR-OLD AFRICAN AMERICAN TEEN AGGRESSIVELY RESTRAINED BY POLICE OFFICERS: Sir, we do not do nothing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[21:26:42] UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Get off him. He did not do nothing. He did not do nothing. He did not do nothing. He did not do
nothing!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE OFFICER: Hands behind your back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (voice-over): D.C. Police officers aggressively restrained 18-year-old Jason Goolsby. Goolsby told the "Washington Post"
that just minutes before police moved in, he held the door at an ATM for a white woman pushing a stroller. He says, an officer told him the woman
called police because he had made her uncomfortable.
PETER GRENIER, JASON GOOLSBY`S ATTORNEY: I have zero doubt that if these young men were white, none of this would have happened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (voice-over): Goolsby and Brown say police detained them for two hours, then let them go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Delroy Burton of the D.C. Police Union says, Goolsby ran several blocks after police arrived and kept reaching into his
backpack. He says the officers did not know what they would encounter when they tracked him down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOOLSBY: My first instinct was to run, because I did not want to -- I did not want to die. I feared for my life about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: A black teen holds the door for a white woman at an ATM at a bank. That woman then calls 911 to report the fact that she saw someone who made
her uncomfortable. He was acting suspiciously.
Officers chase him down, as you saw there. And, then aggressively handcuff him and a friend. Sunny, you brought up some stuff before the break with
similar nature. We just keep reporting these stories one after another.
HOSTIN: Sure.
PINSKY: Now, we get to see him -- everyone got an iPhone, so we got to see them.
HOSTIN: Look, you know, I worked in D.C. as a federal prosecutor. I worked with the metropolitan police department. I know for a fact that
racial profiling at NPD does exist.
And, so I think it would be very naive for all of us to say that the fact that these kids, one by the way who is a student, a college student and the
other one -- both of them had just come back from mentoring at risk youth at a boot camp. We would be all be naive to say that race did not play a
part in the arrest.
You just have to look at the national statistics to know that African- American young men are disproportionately arrest and roughed up for lack of a better term than any other population. That is just the bottom line.
PINSKY: Jenny, will follow that.
HUTT: Because, unfortunately, they are viewed as scary. It is the wackiest thing, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Well, we do a lot of "See something, say something," and this woman felt uncomfortable for whatever reason, should she have not --
HUTT: Because they were black.
PINSKY: But I mean, what should she have done, just not call? I agree it is not at all OK. But, what do we --
HUTT: She did not see anything. She just saw two black kids that --
PINSKY: Why did the kid run?
SMITH: Well, he probably ran because he felt scared. He probably ran because he has seen all of these videos of these black men being,
basically, murdered on the street.
HUTT: Correct.
MECURIO: You still do not run.
SMITH: And, you still do not. OK. But, here is the thing. Have you ever been in a position -- let me tell you a story. I am going to back myself
up. And, I will tell you a story. So, I finish up my graduate program at Columbia. What is it for Columbia -- for Journalism.
I am out on the subways in New York City shooting an assignment. I have to shoot the subway placards. There is some sort of subway campaign. I
accidentally film a white woman that sitting across from me. Right? We get into this huge argument on the train.
She says, "You are filming me. You are doing, you are this." I said, "No, I am not." I am getting irritated because I am a student out here trying
to do my job. That was at 72nd street. By the time I got down to 14th street, she had the police there waiting for me.
HUTT: Wow.
SMITH: Now, when I got off the train, and I saw the cops. They were three of them. They are right around. If I did not know enough to take a deep
breath and then not escalate that situation --
[21:30:07] PINSKY: Sure. Sure.
SMITH: I do not know what would have happened.
PINSKY: No. That is right.
SMITH: And, it is really unfortunate that black men in this country have to deal with things like that.
HOSTIN: And, it is always the fact .
PINSKY: Wait, wait. Hang on. Evy, is law enforcement. Would any of us had to take a deep breath or because Rob is black, does that make a
difference for him?
POUMPOURAS: Let me just back up for a moment. I always hear in the news how we talk about these young men, these young men. If you look at the
statistics, UCR, Uniform Crime Report, that is held by the FBI. If you look at actual numbers, the onset age for criminal activity, property age
is 16 years of age. 18 years of age --
PINSKY: Any race?
POUMPOURAS: Any race.
PINSKY: Any race.
POUMPOURAS: 18 years of age is the onset for violent activity. That peak says that at 25, I do not know what happens -- If you look at statistics,
all -- the majority of crime -- violent crime is done by young people.
First and foremost, I think a lot of people do not realize that. Unfortunately, the higher the teenage population, the more proportionality
we have towards for crime. The other thing that concerns me, I understand why he ran because of all these incidence that were happening with police
brutality.
However, at the end of the day, you do not run from police. As a law enforcement, when you pull up and you see somebody -- hang on, Jenny. You
see somebody run, that escalates.
MECURIO: Exactly.
POUMPOURAS: I am thinking, why is he running? What did he do? What does he have on him? And, now it just gets bad. We have to teach people, you
cannot run from police.
MECURIO: Right.
POUMPOURAS: When you do, it gets worse. But, I understand what you are saying as well. It is just we have to come to a place where this does not
happen, but we cannot just get up and do what we want because it just makes -- it just breaks by.
The minute police have to put hands on another human being, that is the worst thing. You want to be able to communicate and speak to people. But,
I have arrested people that are screaming and yelling, "Stop resisting. Stop resisting." And, they are not listening to you. What do you do? You
say, "OK, go ahead?"
MECURIO: So, what we are saying is that we need to tell young black men that their body can be physically assaulted by somebody at any moment, when
they are running. So, that they always have to de-escalate the situation? That is what you are saying.
SMITH: No. That is not what we are saying.
MECURIO: As a white male, you will never be in that situation when you are white --
SMITH: No. No, no. Do not put that label on me of a white guy and I do not understand that.
MECURIO: Let me tell you something -- Well, you are a white guy.
SMITH: OK. Do not tell me I do not understand that. There is a situation --
MECURIO: It is not a democracy out there with the cops. When you are out there, and there is a potential criminal situation even a traffic
violation. From where I stand, and I have been stopped by the cops. I have been racially profiled, I am not black. The cop is in charge. If the
cop tells you to get on the ground, you know what you do?
PINSKY: Get on the ground.
MECURIO: You get on the ground. The guy was right.
SMITH: Let me tell you something.
MECURIO: What do you think I was running for, because the iron was on?
SMITH: But, let me tell you something. As a black man in this world, I know that any interactions that I have with police officers or with anybody
in any position of authority, they start at eight and they get to ten.
HOSTIN: And, that is absolutely true.
SMITH: The are going to start at three with you. They are going to start at two and three with you. With me they start at eight.
MECURIO: All right.
SMITH: And, then my responsibility to take it down.
HOSTIN: And, it is true because I am a mom of a young black boy. He is 13 years old; however, he is 5`10".
HUTT: Yes.
HOSTIN: So, no one ever -- If you would met him, no one ever thinks that he is the age he is. Guess what? I have to have the conversation with him
that police will profile you. People will profile you. You may be thinking that you are being friendly, but they may think that you are
acting suspiciously. But, I also tell him, "Comply, comply, comply."
PINSKY: Right and he will comply. He will comply.
HOSTIN: Because I want him to get out alive.
PINSKY: Now, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait. Hey!
SMITH: Did your parents ever have to have a conversation like that with you?
MECURIO: I grew up in an Italian neighborhood, where there were some Mafia people, including my cousin, no joke. And, we had problems with the cops.
There was a young man in Michigan, who is 17 and unfortunately got shot and killed because he flashed his lights.
HOSTIN: I saw that.
MECURIO: You know what? I saw that video. I thought that cop was appropriate all the way to the end. And, I have been stopped for my lights
being flashed --
PINSKY: Listen, I -- I --
MECURIO: And, I am like, "OK, Mr. Policeman, whatever you say.
HOSTI: I do not think the cop was appropriate in that.
PINSKY: I was walking by an African-American police when I was a teenager, and I said something to him. He picked me up and shook me until my head
was practically going to come off. And, I did not think to myself, "This guy is going to kill me," because if I thought that for a second, I would
have gone for his guns.
MECURIO: Right.
PINSKY: So, if you tell kids that they are going to be killed by cops, when they are in that moment, that is what they are going to be thinking
about.
HUTT: But, Dr. Drew --
PINSKY: We got to tell them that cops are not going to kill them at any circumstance, unless they escalate it.
MECURIO: Right.
PINSKY: I froze --
(CROSSTALK)
HUTT: Wait.
PINSKY: Hang on.
HOSTIN: But, that is not true.
HUTT: Dr. Drew --
PINSKY: I did not think to myself, black cops are bad. Then I had another problem with an African-American cop, who lied and report about me, and I
still did not think black cops were bad --
HUTT: But, Dr. Drew --
PINSKY: Hang on, Jenny! And, I did not think anything was bad about the cops. I had terrible experiences, but I was taught as a kid, the cops are
there to help, just comply. They say, "Lie on the ground. Put your face on the ground. Put your hands behind your back. Do not talk."
HUTT: But, Dr. Drew --
HOSTIN: Comply, comply, comply. Yes.
SMITH: To white kids in the society, the police are your friends. To black kids in society, it is a different world.
HUTT: They are not. Wait.
SMITH: It is different. Cannot we teach that, if we teach that. It is a different world.
PINSKY: Jenny.
HUTT: Dr. Drew, what you just talked about was really important. There is the fight or flight mechanism that kicks in.
PINSKY: Yes. Yes, I had that.
HUTT: OK.
PINSKY: Believe me I had.
HUTT: But these kids have had to have these talks with their patients that the police may not be their friends and might in fact kill them when they
did nothing. You said, if you have done wrong, comply. These boys did nothing wrong.
PINSKY: I understand. I did not --
SMITH: But jenny, what do you think --
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: You know what?
[21:35:00] SMITH: Jenny, they did do something wrong. They did do something wrong. They made a white woman feel uncomfortable. You are a
black male in this society, making a white woman feel uncomfortable is something that can sometimes be punishable by death and something --
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: We are going to talk about that. That is something worth talking about. That is deep in our something -- I mean, that is --
SMITH: That is deep in the psyche.
PINSKY: Yes. Deep in the psyche. That is a problem.
SMITH: All right.
PINSKY: But, I will tell you what? I was walking on the sidewalk, I was not doing anything wrong. I did not run.
HUTT: It is a different set of circumstances.
PINSKY: Guy threatened my life, I thought he was going to kill me, and I did not think the cops are going to kills.
HOSTIN: And, until, Dr. Drew --
PINSKY: I thought he thought, "There is something wrong with me."
HOSTIN: Until we agree there is two sets of realities.
HUTT: Yes.
HOSTIN: One for a white young man and one for a black young man. Until we are honest, enough, to have this conversation, things will not change.
MECURIO: But, Dr. Drew, but this is not --
HOSTIN: Let us be honest.
MECURIO: -- it is on the woman that called. She is racist, OK? As far as I am concerned.
POUMPOURAS: Do we even have a 911 call?
PINSKY: We do. I will play it.
POUMPOURAS: I would be curious to hear what she said on the call.
PINSKY: I will play it. I will play it after we come we come back. And, later, I got the latest on Lamar Odom and his condition. He is out of the
coma now. We will get back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Get off him opinion. He did not do nothing. He did not do nothing. He did not do nothing. He did not do nothing. He
did not do nothing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE OFFICER: Hands behind your back.
[21:40:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE OFFICER: Stop resisting and put your hands behind your back.
GOOLSBY: I am not resisting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: He did not do nothing.
GOOLSBY: I am not resisting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE POLICE: Put your hands behind your back, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: He did not do nothing. He is not resisting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE OFFICER: Mike. Mike. Hey, stop, man.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE POLICE: Back off. Back off, right now. Back up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That was cell phone video of Jason Goolsby and his friend being detained by police. Moments earlier, Goolsby had just held the door for a
white woman at an ATM. She thought they looked suspicious. She called 911. Back with Evy, Jenny, Sunny, Paul and Rob. And, you guys asked for
the re-enactment of the 911 call. Here is the re-enactment of part of what the woman said on the 911 call. Take a listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE CALLER: They are waiting at the door to let people in, but are not doing anything inside of the bank. We just left, but we felt
like if we had taken money out, we might have gotten robbed.
And, I have to reiterate the only issue that really made it stand out was that they were just -- They were not doing anything in the bank and as soon
as we left, they stayed. So, that was suspicious.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PINSKY: So, Rob, it seemed like she was trying to justify why she felt this guy -- there was something wrong with these guys. But, you are right,
the more difficult and sort of nuisance conversation is --
SMITH: Yes.
PINSKY: How do we help people not be racist, when they do not realize that is what they are being?
SMITH: I mean, first of all, I think in order to start that conversation, we have to be truthful with ourselves. People of all colors, that yes,
there is this racism there, and sometimes the color of people`s skin makes me feel uncomfortable. I think that is something that white people need to
say. That is a conversation that you will have to have with each other and within one another.
PINSKY: We need help.
SMITH: All right?
PINSKY: We need help.
SMITH: And, if you say -- and if you can admit and say that, "Yes, your skin makes me feel uncomfortable sometimes," think to yourself, why that
is. And, when you start to unpack that stuff, you can really work through it and get to the truth. Now, just to say, "Oh, I do not have a racist
bone in my body. I can never be a racist," all that -- I mean, that is garbage, because everybody has thoughts like that in their mind from time
to time.
HOSTIN: And, it is that uncomfortable discussion I agree, that we must have. It is something I talk about on air all the time. Get a lot of flak
for, get called a race baiter.
PINSKY: Who did that?
HOSTIN: The Twitter thugs. You know, that keep more courage. It is all about, "Sunny Hostin is a race baiter."
HUTT: I do not like guilt --
(LAUGHING)
HOSTIN: It is more about having those really important discussions of implicit bias and what makes you feel uncomfortable. Why it makes you feel
uncomfortable. But, I also want to mention, you know, I think that being a police officer, being in law enforcement, I consider myself having been a
prosecutor, a law enforcement person, it is a really tough job. It is a dangerous job.
PINSKY: Yes.
HOSTIN: But, officers are the --
PINSKY: How could we not undermine that?
HOSTIN: Officers are the professionals. They are the trained professionals. And, I think when you see that video of officers chasing a
kid, who may be afraid to get arrested or get hurt, throwing that kid on the ground, being so aggressive --
POUMPOURAS: One moment. Let me just compromise this --
MECURIO: Well, wait a minute, I do not think he was that aggressive. Hold on.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Go ahead, Evy. Go ahead.
POUMPOURAS: Sunny, what do you do? I am just throwing it back at you.
HOSTIN: Sure.
POUMPOURAS: You are fleeing from police, what do you want me to do?
PINSKY: Right.
POUMPOURAS: OK. Bye, see you later.
PINSKY: Yes.
POUMPOURAS: I do not know what he did. I do not know if he is armed. I do not know anything. I am responding to a 911 call. I have the
obligation to society to pursue. I do not have a choice. If you are running, I have to grab you. I have to throw you to the ground. I have to
put handcuffs on you.
After I have handcuffs on you, then I will figure out, what is what. I will search you to see if you have any weapons. I will pull out your I.D.
If somebody one is screaming and yelling, I cannot stop my job. You cannot stop pursuing someone. You are the police. You cannot just be like, "You
know what? I just let you go."
MECURIO: That is exactly right.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Sunny. Sunny.
HOSTIN: We saw a level of aggression there that I thought was inappropriate. And, I think if those two kids looked differently.
MECURIO: No. No.
HOSTIN: One, the call would not have been made, but two, the aggression would not have been made --
PINSKY: OK. Hold on.
POUMPOURAS: You know what?
PINSKY: Wait.
POUMPOURAS: Just one second. You know what? I cannot presume to know what is in the minds and hearts. You cannot presume to know what is in the
mind and heart of the woman or any other officer. I agree with that. But, based on watching that in a video, I have to tell you, I would have done
the same thing with a partner. I would have held the person on the ground. Put their arms back, people resist.
HUTT: If you were doing it, Evy, they would be like, "Yes!"
(LAUGHING)
SMITH: So, you know what, there is something that we all missed here, you just said that, you know, "Hey, I have white guilt." Here is the thing --
HUTT: No, I say -- that is what they say to me on Twitter.
SMITH: But, here is the thing.
HUTT: Yes.
SMITH: You said that you have white guilt. Right? White guilt is what we do not need. OK?
HUTT: No. I do not have white guilt. I am saying they call me on Twitter. The twitter trolls.
PINSKY: I do.
(LAUGHING)
SMITH: OK. Well, then, so I will tell you -- white guilt is what we do not need.
PINSKY: Why? Why?
SMITH: Internalism is what we do not need.
PINSKY: I agree with that.
SMITH: The only thing --
PINSKY: By the way, that is somewhat Trump`s appeal. They do not like internalism.
SMITH: Absolutely.
MECURIO: But, he has also brought on this level of racism, Dr. Drew.
SMITH: What we need is for people -- all we need to do is to be treated equally. That is all we need. We do not need you to feel guilty.
PINSKY: Yes.
SMITH: We do not need you to try to father us or mother us. We need you to treats us equally. And, what we also need for you to do is to
understand in your mind when there are racist thoughts that are happening in your mind to deal with that, to recognize that and then move forward
from that in a truthful way.
[21:45:12] MECURIO: But, what does the cop supposed to do?
PINSKY: But, Paul -- But Paul, you cannot argue with what Rob said, right?
MECURIO: I do not argue with that at all.
PINSKY: He said it very nicely, right?
MECURIO: I totally agree with that.
PINSKY: yes.
MECURIO: But, to Evy`s point, what is the cop supposed to do? He has been put in a bad situation with misinformation. And, I disagree with you,
Sunny. And, I know, you are an African-American woman, in a different world than I am. I do not think he was aggressive with the kid.
(CROSSTALKS)
HOSTIN: Really?
MECURIO: The kid was resisting. They always resist. There are two components to this. Look, if I fall in the water and there are sharks, I
do not antagonize the shark. I do what the shark tells me to do. I do not start strapping meat to my chest. You do what the cop tells you to do.
(CROSSTALK)
SMITH: You keep on saying, they always resist. They always -- Who is this they. Who is the they that you are talking about?
MECURIO: If you look at every one of these incidents over the last ten incidents, there has been a point in the interface between the cop and the
person, where you go, "Why do not you just do what the cop is telling you to do?"
PINSKY: I agree with that; however, I love what you said before. I will try to live by those words. Let us everyone treat each other with respect
and equality. Let us be --
HOSTIN: And, honesty.
PINSKY: Honesty, directness. Check ourselves all the time. It is the way to go.
Next up, Lamar Odom out of coma. I will update you on that and his condition after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:50:40] PINSKY: Time for "Click Fix," where my guests tell me what is trending on their Twitter, Facebook and Instagram feeds. And, guess what,
Sunny, you are first.
(LAUGHING)
HOSTIN: Yes. I have that story, and I know everyone remembers this story. It was about two years ago, when it was back in the headlines. Remember
the affluenza kid, who basically he was so-called privileged kid.
PINSKY: Yes. He is too privileged to be held accountable for his behavior.
HOSTIN: To be held accountable for killing four out of the seven passengers because he was so, so drunk. Well, the family of his surviving
passengers, they filed a lawsuit. We have not heard from the kid or his parents until now, because we got to hear from them during the deposition.
Check this out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE INTERVIEWER: When is the last time you recall disciplining Ethan for anything?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: I do not remember.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE INTERVIEWER: Was there always alcohol then when you were at the Burleson location?
ETHAN COUCH: Uh-huh. Not always, no.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE INTERVIEWER: Most of the time?
ETHAN COUCH: Most of the time, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ETHAN COUCH: I have taken valium, hydrocodone, marijuana, cocaine, Xanax. I tried ecstasy once.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE INTERVIEWER: You remember pulling out of the drive way?
ETHAN COUCH: Not really.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE INTERVIEWER: What is the next thing you recall?
ETHAN COUCH: Waking up, handcuffed to the hospital bed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: There you go. Drug addict, drug addict, drug addict.
HOSTIN: And, what shocking is ABC News learned, he was 16 at the time of the accident. He lived alone in a 4,000 square foot home with a pool and a
wet bar. And, his parents obviously knew that there was a problem, because four months before this accident he was -- he got in trouble and got a
summons for the same sort of thing, substance abuse. And, I think this is really a case of horrible, horrible parenting. And, I --
PINSKY: Yes. Exactly.
HOSTIN: Sad parenting. And, I have often said I think it should be a crime when a parent does not parent and other people die because of the
actions of their children.
HUTT: Yes. Yes.
PINSKY: Sunny Hostin, you can -- you may have an opportunity to prosecute something like that some day. Evy, you are up.
(LAUGHING)
POUMPOURAS: OK. So, you remember Mike`s story last week. Mike showed a "Click Fix" story about a Detroit woman who puts a dummy corpse in front of
her yard, and people actually called police because they thought it was a real dead body.
PINSKY: It was a little too realistic.
POUMPOURAS: Right. But, it turned out to just be a dummy. Well, now this, we have neighbors from a small town in Ohio, that saw a body hanging
outside somebody`s fence, and everyone thought it was just a dummy.
PINSKY: Oh no!
POUMPOURAS: Well, it was not. Construction workers went by, they saw it and they called 911. And, they realized this was an actual body.
HOSTIN: Oh!
POUMPOURAS: I believe we do.
PINSKY: No footage.
POUMPOURAS: No? OK.
PINSKY: It is just a story. Good. I do not really want to see this. It is not good.
(LAUGHING)
POUMPOURAS: Well, police called over the reported. And, sadly, the victim was identified as a 31-year-old female.
PINSKY: Oh my God.
POUMPOURAS: She was actually running from her attacker, she got caught up on the fence and then, you know, her attacker took a rock and just beat her
with blunt force.
PINSKY: Oh my goodness! What a terrible story. Everybody, if we see dead bodies --
POUMPOURAS: If you see dead body --
PINSKY: Yes. Call right away.
POUMPOURAS: Check them.
PINSKY: See something, say something.
HUTT: Yes. It may not be Halloween.
POUMPOURAS: Very sad.
PINSKY: Jenny.
HUTT: All right. Well, after hearing Evy and Sunny`s "Click Fixes," I think we can use a feel good story.
PINSKY: Please.
HUTT: So, this is a 27-year-old bride from Sacramento, California, who was jilted by her husband to be not, not the good news of the story. The good
news is that instead of calling off the $35,000 reception, the bride`s parents invited Sacramento`s homeless to have dinner and to enjoy the
feast.
PINSKY: Wow! Wow!
HUTT: So, the catered meal provided by a four-star restaurant included steak and salmon. And, the bride`s family said it was their chance to give
back. And, she is so beautiful.
HOSTIN: She dodged a bullet.
HUTT: Yes!
HOSTIN: If the guy cancels on you right before your wedding, he was a jerk and you did not need to marry him in the first place.
HUTT: Move on.
POUMPOURAS: Yes.
PINSKY: A lot of full wisdom tonight.
Next up, an update on Lamar Odom. Apparently, he is out of a coma. He is off the ventilator. He is talking. I will have it all for you after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:54:29] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: All right, as I said, Lamar Odom, thank God, is no longer in a coma. This is according to various reports. Sources tell "People"
magazine, the former NBA Star off of ventilator, means breathing on his own.
TMZ reports that doctors in fact found traces of opiates and cocaine in his body, that is what I said, has got to be the case. I mean cocaine addicts,
if they are not dying of a heart attack or a stroke, it is because they have added in benzodiazepine and/or an opiate and typically opiates, which
is allegedly what is reported here.
Now, we also heard that he might have been on dialysis, which means there could be some irreversible kidney damage, but even a young person will
typically fully recover from that. So, this is actually going to end up being a good story. The question is, guys, is that even after a near death
experience like that, sometimes people do not get well. They still go back out and -- Evy, I see you are nodding your head.
Sometimes if a patient comes to me and says, "You know, I am really - I know I am going to die. I just almost died. You got to help me, doc."
That is usually a workable person. But, Mike Catherwood, who you say, who you mentioned, Mike?
POUMPOURAS: Yes.
PINSKY: Mike had seven near death experiences.
HUTT: Oh, wow!
PINSKY: Or six of them or something.
POUMPOURAS: Wow!
PINSKY: Not near death. I mean, he died and was resuscitated. Did not care, and finally got sober. Now, he is wonderful sober. I wish the best
for Lamar. And, again, I have been defending Khloe quite a bit, because I think her behavior have been quite appropriate.
I mean, you cannot fix an addict. You wish you can, when your family never leave you, if you love somebody, but you cannot. An addict has to
participate in the treatment.
A reminder that we are on the SnapChat. Join us there. It is DrDrewHLN. Please DVR us, then you can watch us any time. Thank you panel. Great
job. Thank you also to Paul and Rob, who are here with us as well.
[22:00:00] POUMPOURAS: Thank you. Thank you.
PINSKY: And, I will tell you what -- I will see you next time.
END
