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Dr. Drew
Joe Biden Has Made The Long-Awaited Announcement, He Is Not Running For President; Panic Establishment Gets Ready For "War Against Trump"; Many Thought Trump`s Popularity Will Fizzle Out Long Ago, But So Far Not The Case; According To A New Poll, Trump Still Leads By Double Digits; An Alabama Man Believes He Was Stopped By Police For Jogging While Black; An Alabama Man Believes He Was Harassed By Police Merely Because He Was Jogging And Sweating While Black; A Crazy Shocking Video Of A Toddler, Who Is Smoking And Drinking And Adults Cheering Him On
Aired October 21, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:00:13] DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight Joe Biden, I think everyone knows now, has said no to running for president -- That while Donald Trump
is crushing the competition. What is the appeal? Plus, a black jogger is confronted by white police officers for exercising after midnight. Did
they do anything wrong? Did he?
It all starts right now with the "Top of the Feed." Joe Biden has made the long-awaited announcement. He is not running for president. Meanwhile,
Trump seems to be unstoppable. His competitors seem to acknowledge that.
Look at the headline from the Washington examiner. Panic establishment gets ready for, quote, "war against Trump." He responded on ABC`s "Good
Morning America" as follows. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CADIDATE: It is a very nice way to get up in the morning and see, and I will say that I will fight for it. We want
to make our country great again. We want to make America great again. We want to just do things that can be done and there are so many things to be
done.
Politicians, they are all talk. They are no action, and it is just not working. Jeb has had a very hard time. He is way down in the polls. He
is doing very poorly. He is embarrassed by what is happening. The last thing we need is another Bush. Had we had strong immigration? You know,
my policies, you may not have had the World Trade Center coming down and the attack.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So, he keeps saying some of these outrageous things and yet he keeps going up in the polls. And, are they truthful or can we assail him
on some of the things he says? His new poll has him at 42 percent when it comes to who is most likely to win the nomination. Carson falls at 15
percent, Bush 12 percent. Rubio just 5 percent.
Joining me to discuss from New York. Here we are, Kayleigh McEnany, Political Commentator. I got Sunny Hostin back, CNN Legal Analyst; Mark
Summers, T.V. Host, Executive Producer; Evy Poumpouras, former Special Agent, Secret Agent and Security Expert and Erin Elmore, former contestant
on the Trump`s -- Mr. Trump`s "The Apprentice." And, why not -- we talked about this the last time you were on. But my question is sort of simply,
if that is your front-runner, why not throw your support behind him?
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, I think there is 11 debates. There is 16 viable candidates for the presidency on the
Republican side. That is a lot of people. I want the candidate, who is going to beat Hillary Clinton. That very well could be Trump. It very
well could be Marco Rubio.
Time will tell. But, I want these guys to be tested and that is the advantage the republicans have. They have room to be tested. Hillary, it
is a coronation. You do not have that same sort of back and forth that you get on this side.
PINSKY: Sunny, you are smiling.
SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I mean when she says 16 viable candidates, I have to choke -- you know, I mean I have to chuckle. Bottom
line is no one can name -- they can maybe name --
PINSKY: Four.
HOSTIN: Three or four --
PINSKY: Four.
HOSTIN: -- at the most and the bottom line is Trump is likely going to get the nod. He is likely going to get the nomination. And, I do not
understand like, Dr. Drew, why not, you know, sort of put your support behind your frontrunner. Is it something about his politics?
MCENANY: No.
HOSTIN: Is it something about his policies?
MCENANY: I think he would be a great candidate. But, to point out none of the candidates on our side are being investigated for potential criminal
charges by the FBI.
PINSKY: Oh -- we just took a turn here.
MCENANY: The only - is Hillary Clinton. So, if we want to talk viable candidates, at least all of ours are law abiding citizens.
MARC SUMMERS, T.V. HOST AND EXECUTIVE PRODUCER: I do not know if you have been looking at the news but the whole Benghazi thing was made up. Did you
hear about that?
MCENANY: That was not made up.
HOSTIN: That is what I heard.
SUMMERS: Yes.
(LAUGHING)
MCENANY: There are four dead Americans and a secretary of state that has to answer for why extra security was not sent.
SUMMERS: Oh, I see.
MCENANY: There were a lot of questions to be asked.
HOSTIN: There is really a political witch-hunt --
SUMMERS: You should really find out about the facts.
PINSKY: Well, let me ask my security --
MCENANY: Those are facts.
PINSKY: -- my security expert. Evy, what does the security community say about this?
EVY POUMPOURAS, FORMER SPECIAL AGENT, SECRET SERVICE: The Benghazi situation?
PINSKY: Yes.
POUMPOURAS: I think that was a serious -- that was a bad day. I think it has been investigated. There were a lot of e-mails, a lot of back and
forth. Senator Clinton -- Secretary -- excuse me, Secretary Clinton is going to have to answer for that. But even from the law enforcement
perspective, I mean, she really has to answer it. That is a drop.
SUMMERS: She will answer tomorrow, and we are not going to learn anything new.
POUMPOURAS: She is not going to -- but they are not going to tell you
SUMMERS: It was a witch-hunt.
POUMPOURAS: -- but they are not going to tell you anything new. But, this is a thing, when it comes to politics, politicians -- what they do, and I
have been around them for many years is they practice. They have other people writing their speeches. They bouncing off of other people. It is
very rare where they can actually speak without a filter. I think the attraction to Trump is he has no filter.
PINSKY: Right.
POUMPOURAS: He is just saying it the way it is. People like that authenticity. And, you know, I am not picking sides on this one because I
am from the neutral perspective. But, I have a question for you, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Yes. Yes.
POUMPOURAS: Why -- and everybody else. Why so much against Trump? I am curious. Without you know talking politics. But, why is this almost like,
why how Trump? Why Trump?
PINSKY: Erin, what do you think? You are a supporter.
ERIN ELMORE, FORMER "APPRENTICE" CONTESTANT: People are angry at Trump, because he is the winner right now. His numbers are not lying.
PINSKY: But, it is not just the winning --
ELMORE: They are jealous or haters and they are scared.
PINSKY: Well, let me read to you some of the things he has said that has raised flags, particularly among fact checkers. Let me read this one to
you. He said that a number -- the number of illegal immigrants in the country is possibly 34 million.
SUMMER: Not true.
PINSKY: Well, that is what Trump is saying.
ELMORE: Oh really? Have you counted them all? Because they are living in the shadows, you know.
[21:05:00] SUMMERS: There were -- you know, it is more like 11 million, I believe.
ELMORE: But, how do you know that? That is not a facts, either.
SUMMERS: How do you know there is 34 million? Because Donald Trump said so?
ELMORE: No. Donald Trump --
SUMMERS: Did you drink the Kool-Aid?
ELMORE: Have you read the word lie in a dictionary? A lie is a false statement meant to deceive --
SUMMERS: Here is the thing.
ELMORE: He does not lie. He expressed a number and estimation. These people live their lives in the shadows. They are hiding because they are
fear of deportation.
SUMMERS: He makes things up and for whatever reason -- I just saw you do it in the introduction, with all due respect, Mr. Trump. Everybody is
scared to death to go -- I would like to see him go on a show like Bill Maher and see what he does head-to-head with somebody who is going
challenge him. Nobody is challenging him.
PINSKY: But, I think what he is really --
HOSTIN: And, what really are his policies?
PINSKY: Well, that is what I am going to say. I think what he is going to do is go, "I will deal with that later. I am just going to win. I am
going to make sure we do great. I am going to make sure I am going to beat everybody."
HOSTIN: I am going to make America great! It is so rhetoric.
PINSKY: "I am going to win."
(CROSSTALK)
POUMPOURAS: But, it is in fact --
MCENANY: And, it is working!
POUMPOURAS: -- I am sorry, from a strategic standpoint -- and I am not on anybody side, but to me I am like, that is a strategic thinker. I will be
like, "I am not going on that show.
MCENANY: It is working.
POUMPOURAS: If I go on that show I tank. Why bother? I will go later when I am stronger.
PINSKY: Let me float on those theory, that when John F. Kennedy became a viable candidate, it was because he mastered television. Right?
MCENANY: Right.
ELMORE: Yes. Ronald Reagan.
HOSTIN: Sure.
PINSKY: Forget that he had great leader, great policy -- but really he got his hands around new technology. Now, media today is about all these
different media. How do you reach people in the present media?
HOSTIN: Twitter.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: You would be polarizing. You would be extreme. You get attention. It does not matter what you say. It matters if people react to
what you say and he is mastering the new media.
HOSTIN: Well, I also think it is more than that, though, do not you? I mean the bottom line is I think he is sort of tapped into hundreds of
thousands of people, again, who feel disenfranchised.
PINSKY: There is that.
HOSTIN: To feel that America is not great.
PINSKY: But, zero on that side.
HOSTIN: Who want some sort of change and --
PINSKY: It is that exceptionalism that we miss, that we feel depressed about.
SUMMERS: I do not.
HOSTIN: Perhaps -- perhaps but, again, because he is the frontrunner, because he is tapped into this, I do not understand why there are so many
people in the Republican Party that will not back him. I do not understand that.
ELMORE: Because they are scared of someone that is not an insider in the political world.
SUMMERS: Here is what I do not understand.
PINSKY: Marc.
SUMMERS: We want our country back. what are you talking about?
HOSTIN: Who took it?
SUMMERS: Yes, who took it?
MCENANY: President Obama. The thing that people like about Donald Trump is he is decisive.
SUMMERS: What did he do wrong? Tell me what Obama did wrong?
MCENANY: When you look around the world there are fires going off in the Middle East. It is our president`s fault, and Donald Trump is decisive.
SUMMERS: So, our president is responsible for everything, correct?
MCENANY: He is responsible for what is happening in the Middle East now, yes.
SUMMERS: I think Mr. Bush may have something to do with that.
PINSKY: Let us take a quick break. I got -- In addition to one of Trump`s big fans, Erin, I have his absolute biggest fans. They are going to join
me by Skype.
And, later, this is a difficult story but an interesting story. It is a guy that was stopped for jogging at night because he was black. An Alabama
man jogging while black and he got stopped by cops. He says that it was -- they say it was not because of his color. He says it was. We will get
into the details after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:07:57] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LYNETTE "DIAMOND" HARDAWAY, DONALD TRUMP`S SUPPORTER: He is going to make America great, and that is why I stump for the Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Please tell me a candidate that has outlined his policy more so than Donald Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DIAMOND: We have a border that needs to be secure.
ROCHELLE "SILK" RICHARDSON, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTERS: Yes.
DIAMOND: We have ISIS trying to cut off heads.
SILK: Yes.
DIAMOND: We have people going into movie theaters shooting it up, Don.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Trump has just won me over. And, I am going to tell you why, because he is the best of the worst candidates.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DIAMOND: He is telling the naked truth. Let him tell it and speak it the way he needs to. That is why we love him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMER: When the media claimed, Oh, people are not being murdered in the U.S., he started parading them in front of the
media and they shut up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DIAMOD: We have to make America great.
SILK: Yes.
DIAMOND: And, the only way we can do that is with Donald Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Many thought Trump`s popularity will fizzle out long ago, but so far not the case. In fact, there is less time remaining than he has been
in the lead. Now, according to a new poll, he still leads by double digits.
Back with Kayleigh, Sunny, Marc, Evy and Erin. And, Marc, as you see from our audience he gets support in places that are unexpected to me.
Particularly, that last woman that -- the older African-American woman.
SUMMERS: Yes.
PINSKY: The black woman that stood up there. I went up and put my arm around her, what is it? You surprised me. She said, "I am angry." That
is what she said.
SUMMERS: Angry at what?
PINSKY: Angry --
(LAUGHING)
MCENANY: For most of the country. People are still hurting economically. Wages are depressed.
PINSKY: They take it bad.
MCENANY: People are down and out of luck.
PINSKY: And, they feel hopeless.
MCENANY: And, they are hoping for anyone --
HOSTIN: We have high employment rate in years.
MCENANY: Not when you look at real unemployment.
SUMMERS: Here we go. Here we go.
MCENANY: More people --
SUMMERS: All these made-up facts --
MCENANY: It is not made-up facts.
SUMMERS: No matter what Obama does, he could cure cancer. Well, he really did not cure cancer. Somebody else did.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: But it is the middle class that feels like they do not have the freedom to pursue an opportunity. They feel like their opportunities are
closing. They do not even lay blame. They not even saying -- the ones I have spoken, "Oh, it is Mr. Obama." They have not said that, but they say,
"I think Trump can get me more opportunity, and I can be more optimistic about my future."
ELMORE: And, I think there are so many career politicians out here that cleanse their mouth and just say the same thing like a beauty queen. They
are like robots. Mr. Trump is not like that. He actually speaks the truth and he is a breath of fresh air in a broken system.
PINSKY: Evy is saying yes.
POUMPOURAS: And, you know, he does -- he comes up very positive. He comes up very enthusiastic. He speaks like he knows what he is speaking about --
(CROSSTALK)
HOSTIN: His actions seemed like demographic. He has also insulted almost every single voting block.
SUMMERS: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
MCENANY: And, they still like him.
POUMPOURAS: And, they still like him.
PINSKY: Well, Sunny, two things. One is that, that polarizing thing again --
HOSTIN: Sure.
PINSKY: When -- as I said, my audience surprised me. I walk around this town, New York City. And, I talk to people of -- particularly Hispanic and
black and they do not just not like him. They hate him.
SUMMERS: Yes.
HOSTIN: Yes.
PINSKY: So, it is that polarizing again that seems to be cutting through.
HOSTIN: But, I think what is really fascinating is that you just said, "Well, you know, he speaks the truth." What truth? What are his policies?
For me, as a lawyer, I am looking for his criminal justice policy, his platform, his reform platform. I have not heard about that. Foreign
policy, I have not heard about that.
PINSKY: He is going to win. Did you forget get it? He is going to win, Sunny.
[21:15:00] HOSTIN: Finally, economic. I have not heard about that.
(LAUGHING)
SUMMERS: When he says, "We are going to build a wall, and will get the Mexican government to pay for it." Really? He cannot run the government
like a business.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Let us bring in his supporters. Let us bring in via Skype, two Trump`s biggest supporters, "Diamond and Silk." They are "Stump for Trump
Sisters." Ladies, thank you. Congratulations, apparently, Donald Trump re-tweeted you, guys, earlier today. We are going to put that tweet up if
you like. There it is. But, ladies, help my panel here. I am going to give them a chance to poke at you a little bit and ask questions, but what
do you think it is that he is tapped into?
LYNETTE "DIAMOND" HARDAWAY, DONALD TRUMP`S SUPPORTER (via Skype): Listen. He represents opportunity, success, the American dream.
ROCHELLE "SILK" RICHARDSON, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTERS (via Skype): Yes.
DIAMOND: And, he is going to be representing the American people.
SILK: That is right.
DIAMOND: The American people is tired of being left behind.
SILK: Yes.
DIAMOND: So, it is time for someone to put us first. And, baby, that is why stump for Trump.
SILK: Right!
DIAMOND: And, that is why we are going to vote for him. Yes!
SILK: That is right.
PINSKY: OK. Sunny and Marc seemed to be the most curious about this.
HOSTIN: I am very curious about this. You know, you say he represents the American dream, but the bottom line is he started ahead, right? His father
gave him almost $300 million in investments, so that he could be successful.
So, how do you think he represents the true American dream, which is more of a sort of pull yourself up by the bootstraps dream? He has had it all.
He was sort of born with a silver spoon in his mouth. He is very different from everyday people.
DIAMOND: I do not think that he is very different. He is -- To us he seems average and ordinary --
SILK: That is why.
(LAUGHING)
DIAMOND: And, that is what we like about him. And, you say, pull yourself up by the bootstraps, but how can you do that if you do not have straps?
SILK: That is right.
DIAMOND: So, we need a man that do not talk to someone to take this mess and turn it into success, baby. And, that is why we Stump for Trump.
SILK: Exactly.
PINSKY: Marc, go ahead. Hang on, ladies. Hang on. Let me get Marc ask you question.
SUMMERS: Do you feel any way, shape or form that this man is a bully? I can go back to the Rosie O`Donnell stuff when he made fun -- when he deals
with people is he makes fun of them. He shuts them down in a very negative way. And, you think this is OK for a man who could be the leader of the
free world?
DIAMOND: He is not a bully.
SILK: That is right.
DIAMOND: Rosie O`Donnell started that whole fiasco.
SILK: Yes.
DIAMOND: If she would not have mentioned anything about his hair, started to making fun of his hair, then he never would have called her out.
SUMMERS: Here is what I cannot wait --
DIAMOND: He is not a bully, baby.
SUMMERS: Ladies --
DIAMOND: He is a man that wants to make America great again.
SILK: And, he is.
SUMMERS: Here is what I cannot wait. I hope he gets the republican nomination because when he has to debate against Hillary Clinton, it will
be one of the best evenings of entertainment you have ever seen in your life. She will be the first person who will shut him down.
PINSKY: I will give Kayleigh chance to ask question, now.
MCENANY: Diamond -- ladies, I am very much with you. I think, you guys, are excellent. And, one of the things -- and I want to see if you agree is
that Donald Trump`s rise is a by-product of this culture, where everyone is so sensitive. We are so quick to call people sexist. We are so quick to
call people racist or homophobic. Donald Trump is who he is. He is authentic and he is the result of this high-offense culture. Do you agree?
DIAMOND: I absolutely agree.
SILK: Totally.
(LAUGHING)
DIAMOND: Yes, baby! Yes. Let people say what they are going to say. And, listen, we got to practice something called tolerance.
SILK: That is right.
DIAMOND: And, if I got to tolerate you. Then tolerate that I may not like some things about you.
SILK: That is right.
DIAMOND: We have to learn how to agree to disagree.
SILK: To disagree.
DIAMOND: And, that is why we love Donald Trump.
PINSKY: Erin?
ELMORE: Hi, ladies. How are you? I love what you are all about. I am a huge Trump supporter. And, you know what? I think a lot of naysayers that
are often telling me why you like Donald Trump and why are you supporting him? I want to know what you say to those people that do not like Donald
Trump.
DIAMOND: Well, we say this here. He is going to bring back opportunities --
SILK: Jobs.
DIAMOND: We need opportunities and jobs in this country, where people are thriving again.
SILK: That is right.
DIAMOND: That is what I tell them.
SILK: Uh-huh.
DIAMOND: And, I will tell them, listen to me. Stop always -- get out of the box.
SILK: Yes.
DIAMOND: Let us do something different.
SILK: Uh-huh.
DIAMOND: I wish all Americans would take -- switch their parties to republicans to vote for him and the primaries and the general election.
SILK: Exactly.
DIAMOND: So, that we can change this whole system. We need a businessman --
SILK: Yes.
DIAMOND: -- to come in and fix this with a master plan as they call it.
SILK: That is right.
PINSKY: There you go, ladies. We are going to leave it at that. And, it is very similar to what I was saying, right? People in middle class who
feel like somehow they are being missed. They are being passed over.
HOSTIN: It is astonishing to me.
PINSKY: They are not saying they are fault somewhere. They are just saying they like something more enthusiastic. And, if you remember, when
Reagan came in --
HOSTIN: Sure.
PINSKY: That feeling of -- we were like those `70s were terrible. All of sudden, this guy came along and said, "We can make it good. We can make it
great." I remember that feeling.
SUMMERS: Yes.
SUMMERS: But Clinton saved Bush Sr. after Bush Sr. destroyed the country. And, Obama fixed what the next Bush has destroyed. I just want to ask the
ladies one question.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: They are gone. They are actually gone, Marc. I am sorry. But, it is the weird thing about history, though, right. It is a weird
continuum to say, it was all this or all that or it started here and ended there. It is very hard to put your finger on it. Just a feeling that
people have right now.
HOSTIN: And, it is sort of remarkable that he is seen as sort of this incredible businessman when he has filed for bankruptcy four times, when he
had his clothing line. Even those jobs were not here in the United States --
SUMMERS: China.
HOSTIN: They were in China. So, you know, this notion that he is going to make America great again is just -- it is astonishing. And, I think going
back to your point, Dr. Drew, maybe it is just that he is just good television. People are not scratching the surface.
[21:20:04] PINSKY: Maybe the way the media is has infected politics. And, I think if you look at history, that has been a part of politics
throughout history. Media has influenced politics.
Why -- next -- thank you, panel -- did a white police officer stop a black man who was merely jogging? Back with that after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:24:16] PISKY: An Alabama man believes he was stopped by police for, get this, jogging while black. He was running through his neighborhood.
It was after midnight. He stopped to catch his breath, and an officer pulled up beside him and that is when he started recording. Again, the
interesting thing about all these stories is we have all got that camera in our hand. Watch what he recorded.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KENNETH PRICE, TALLADEGA POLICE OFFICER: Did you just get off work or what are you doing?
COREY DICKERSON, AFRICAN-AMERICAN MALE WHO WAS DETAINED MY WHITE POLICE: Uh yeah. Have I done anything wrong, first of all?
OFFICER PRICE: Well, no. We have to ask that because, see, at night we have to check. And, see, we have had a lot of burglaries and thefts and
stuff like that going on. We do not know who you are.
DICKERSON: Oh, well, I am nobody. I am nobody.
OFFICER PRICE: Look at our job. We do not know what you are doing out here.
[21:25:01] DICKERSON: Right now, I am just minding my own.
OFFICER PRICE: where are you going?
DICKERSON: Nowhere in particular.
OFFICER PRICE: Nowhere in particular. You look like you have been running. You been running?
DICKERSON: Yes.
OFFICER PRICE: What have you been running from?
DICKERSON: Uh, just around.
OFFICER PRICE: Just around?
DICKERSON: Yes. Yes.
OFFICER PRICE: Where are you going to?
DICKERSON: Nowhere in particular.
OFFICER PRICE: You got some I.D. on you?
DICKERSON: I do, but --
OFFICER PRICE: What is your name?
DICKERSON: Corey. Yes.
OFFICER PRICE: Well, looks like I am about to get harassed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Kayleigh, Sunny, Marc, Evy, and joining us, Joey Jackson, HLN Legal Analyst. Evy, anything wrong with what went on there?
POUMPOURAS: Nothing is wrong with what went on there.
HOSTIN: Evy!
POUMPOURAS: And, you know what, Sunny -- hang on. You know what? It is coming to the point, where we do not want a proactive police department.
We want a reactive police department. We want a police department when things happen, then they show up. But, what they are doing is proactive
policing. It is 12:30 at night, he is running around. They do not know he is jogging.
HOSTIN: They are profiling too.
POUMPOURAS: It is not profiling, because why? Because he happened to be black and the officers are white? Boom! Same thing we talked about
Monday, right there, it is racist. It is suspicion. It is in the middle of the night. It is in the neighborhood. They are allowed to stop you and
everything -- that is a 9-minute video --
HOSTIN: If I may Evy.
POUMPOURAS: -- where they are having a negotiation -- and I am losing my mind.
HOSTIN: If I may say this?
POUMPOURAS: I am thinking are we -- he asked him, "Where are you going?" "Nowhere." "What are you doing?" "Nothing." "Who are you?" "I am
nobody."
HOSTIN: What is suspicious?
POUMPOURAS: Suspicious -- in the middle of the night in the neighborhood - -
HOSTIN: Black on jogging?
POUMPOURAS: Yes. They are allowed to approach you.
HOSTIN: Is there a curfew?
POUMPOURAS: If I am hanging out in the parking lot of Best Buy --
HOSTIN: Is there a curfew for black people?
POUMPOURAS: -- and I am hanging out in the middle of the night --
HOSTIN: I cannot jog at 12:30?
POUMPOURAS: -- they can stop and ask who you are. This is a concern. We are doing this.
HOSTIN: That is profiling.
POUMPOURAS: We are doing our job. It is not profiling.
HOSTIN: And, the constitution said you cannot do that.
(CROSSTALK)
POUMPOURAS: We are looking at behavior.
SUMMERS: No.
POUMPOURAS: This is where we are missing the boat.
HOSTIN: Give me a break.
POUMPOURAS: It is not about the police target behavior not profile.
HOSTIN: Really?
POUMPOURAS: That is what you look at.
HOSTIN: Really? So, the behavior, by the way, that our law enforcement friend is claiming is suspicious is jogging.
PINSKY: Well, no. It is sweating.
(CROSSTALK)
HOSTIN: In New York --
PINSKY: Wait, Sunny.
POUMPOURAS: How do you know he is jogging? They are stopping him and they are asking him --.
MCENANY: They asked him, what he was doing? Why did not he say I was jogging?
POUMPOURAS: He does not answer.
MCENANY: He does not answer. He was evasive.
SUMMERS: No. He did say the he was jogging.
(CROSSTALK)
MCENANY: What facts do you have that this man was stopped because of the color of his skin? You have no facts. You are viewing these officers with
the race --
HOSTIN: I do have facts. I will tell you --
MCENANY: What are the facts?
HOSTIN: Well, the facts are, one, that I live as a person of color in the United States.
MCENANY: That is not a fact.
SUMMERS: That is not a fact? Whoa! That is fascinating!
MCENANY: In this incident, what facts do you have?
HOSTIN: That is a fact, so I have the experience --
MCENANY: What facts do you have about this incident.
HOSTIN: But, I will --
MCENANY: That is not a fact about this incident.
HOSTIN: I will also tell you that the bottom line is -- and you are a lawyer, you know this, right? Reasonable suspicion that a crime occurred
is what the standard is.
MCENANY: It is not.
HOSTIN: And --
MCENANY: It is not. In 2000, the Supreme Court said running, evading police officers is reasonable suspicion.
HOSTIN: And, by the way, jogging while black -- jogging while black does not give rise to reasonable suspicion. So, I saw as a former federal
prosecutor, no crime.
PINSKY: Wait.
HOSTIN: No reasonable suspicion.
PINSKY: But, Evy says there is need to be a reasonable suspicion, why not?
POUMPOURAS: There needs to be a suspicion that criminal activity could be afoot.
MCENANY: Yes.
POUMPOURAS: OK? So, in the middle of the night, jogging, sweating in that neighborhood --
HOSTIN: So, it is fine to jog while black.
POUMPOURAS: No. But, he does not -- this is a thing, that could have been a 1-minute video. But, you know, he chose not to answer, not to show his
I.D. details to evade and play games.
HOSTIN: We do not live in the police state.
JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Here is the bottom line --
PINSKY: Joey. Joey. Hang on.
HOSTIN: We do not live in a police state.
PINSKY: Joey.
JACKSON: Here is the bottom line, and I am very sensitive to this for a few reasons. The first of which I have a teenage son and I always want to
see him come home alive. My standard to anybody who would ever listen as an attorney is comply now and grieve later. These officers --
PINSKY: But, Joey, let someone like you handle this officer later if there is a problem, right?
JACKSON: If there is an issue.
PINSKY: Yes, if there is an issue.
JACKSON: If there is an issue. Now, look, as a prosecutor, I have dismissed cases because the stops were improper. As a defense attorney, I
have gotten cases dismissed when the stop is improper. However, if you understand the facts of the situation, the police are out there to detect
and deter crime. I do not see this, excuse me, as a stop for jogging while black.
PINSKY: This one.
JACKSON: He is sweating. This particular case. Every case is fact sensitive. Evaluate --
PINSKY: This one you think is appropriate?
JACKSON: I think -- Look.
HOSTIN: What?
JACKSON: If you are sweating. It is the middle of the night --
HOSTIN: Now, sweating while black is a crime.
JACKSON: No, no, no, no. Listen.
(LAUGHING)
HOSTIN: OK. Wow!
PINSKY: You, guys, I will run at night sometimes and I often think to myself, "Cops would stop me. I am running here. I think they would stop
me."
(CROSSTALK)
HOSTIN: That would be a new story --
PINSKY: Yes, because a white guy is jogging.
(LAUGHING)
HOSTIN: All of central park is suspicious then.
PINSKY: OK.
(CROSSTALK)
JACKSON: But, here is the distinction.
POUMPOURAS: Not jogging in the central park.
JACKSON: Wait. Let me say this. Here is the distinction. The distinction is, it appears to be an area of isolation. There are not many
other people there.
HOSTIN: OK.
JACKSON: So, police are out there to detect and deter criminal activity.
HOSTIN: OK.
JACKSON: He is bending over. He is sweating at the time, and the officer is not pat frisking him. The officer is not saying, "You are being
arrested." The officer is saying, "Hey, I just want to know what you are doing?"
HOSTIN: He detained him.
JACKSON: The officer exercised incredible restraint. In New York City, an officer is not negotiating with me. I have been stopped multiple times.
It is, "Officer, whatever you need." If you look at the Blake situation in New York. He said, "Officer, I am scared." --
HOSTIN: Joey, he was detained.
JACKSON: "I will comply. Whatever you need me to do, I am going to do it."
HOSTIN: He was free to leave.
JACKSON: Look.
HOSTIN: Let us fast forward.
JACKSON: OK.
HOSTIN: Bottom line is the cops walked away. You know why? Because nothing criminal was happening --
[21:30:02] PINSKY: Let me --
HOSTIN: -- yet they engaged in a police stop and encounter that should never have happened.
PINSKY: Let me finish.
POUMPOURAS: That is their job, Sunny.
PINSKY: I have to -- hang on.
POUMPOURAS: That is their job.
PINSKY: I have to finish. I want you to see what happened when the officer did get out of his patrol car. Let us finish this episode. Take a
look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OFFICER PRICE: You can tell them why I stopped you. It is 12:30 in the morning.
DICKERSON: All right.
OFFICER PRICE: We have had a lot of burglaries and thefts.
DICKERSON: Uh-huh.
OFFICER PRICE: You can get this on camera, OK?
DICKERSON: OK.
OFFICER PRICE: So, now I am just asking you for your I.D.
DICKERSON: Uh, uh, well --
OFFICER PRICE: What is your name?
DICKERSON: Am I suspected of being --
OFFICER PRICE: What is your name?
DICKERSON: Corey.
OFFICER PRICE: Corey what?
DICKERSON: Right now, I would prefer just go by Corey.
OFFICER PRICE: No I.D. on you?
DICKERSON: I do but --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE POLICE OFFICER: All he is asking for is name, date of birth, make sure you got no warrant for your arrest. You are telling me
you are a good enough citizen that you obey all the laws and everything.
DICKERSON: I did not say all of that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE POLICE OFFICER: That is what I am hoping you do.
DICKERSON: I mean I take care of mine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So, it seems like they are being reasonable and trying to negotiate with the guy.
HOSTIN: Well, no. No. No. If you peel back the layers here, they are saying we just want to make sure you have no warrants or arrest. Well,
guess what? You cannot just stop someone without a reasonable suspicion and then fish and dig.
MCENANY: There is a reasonable suspicion.
(LAUGHING)
HOSTIN: What is it?
MCENANY: There is.
HOSTIN: Sweating. I forgot he is sweating while black.
MCENANY: As Joey said, the facts matter in this case.
HOSTIN: He is sweating while black.
MCENANY: He was running at 12:30 at night. They are in a high crime area. There had been a burglary where a woman had her door kicked in.
HOSTIN: He is jogging and sweating while black.
JACKSON: Dr. Drew, the officers exercised incredible restraint. In this jurisdiction, I would show that tape over and over to show how -- we talk
about de-escalating constantly. We talked about how police do not want to exacerbate, how they do not want to in any way, you know, fuel the
tensions. This officers were negotiating. Make no mistake about it.
And, I tell my son all the time. There is no negotiation. If you are asked to produce your I.D., produce your I.D. If you are asked to put your
hands up, put your hands up. You are asked to lay down. Lay down and now. The fact is if you have a grievance, if you have an issue, you tell me
about it or get you counsel. We will talk to the mayor, but you do what an officer says.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: We will leave it. We will leave it there for a minute. We will keep the conversation going when we get back. Be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[21:36:12] PINSKY: An Alabama man believes he was harassed by police merely because he was jogging and sweating, now according to Sunny, while
black, in his own neighborhood after midnight as I said, and an officer detained him. And, then a second officer actually saw him exercising
earlier in the night. So, that guy then showed up, this officer. Watch what happened when he began to talk.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE POLICE OFFICER: He did not know you were running. He just sees a man out here sweating outside a business.
DICKERSON: And, I told him I was all right. That should have been good enough reason for him just to ho home, man.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE POLICE OFFICER: Yes, but see if I tell you something, are you going to automatically believe me every time I talk?
DICKERSON: I do not believe anybody!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE POLICE OFFICER: Exactly. We do not believe nobody. 90 percent of the people we talk to lie to us about everything we talk about.
It is 12:44, you are out here in the middle of the intersection, business right there, bunch of houses around here, you are sweating. I saw you
running --
DICKERSON: You know why I am sweating, though.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE POLICE OFFICER: He does not. He is out here. He is the one who made the initial stop. All right?
DICKERSON: Uh-huh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE POLICE OFFICER: All he is asking is for a name, date of birth so we can check you out, make sure you ain`t got no warrants nothing
like that. That is all it boils down to.
DICKERSON: And, then that is another thing. I might do have warrants on me. I would be a fool to give you guys my name then I go to jail and lose
my job. I do not have any bail money, no bond money.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE POLICE OFFICER: Do you have warrants, Corey?
DICKERSON: I hope not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That is another interesting twist into the story. But Evy, you want to comment.
POUMPOURAS: You know, I want to comment with what Sunny is saying. This is a thing, Sunny. We have to decide here in the United States, what kind
of police force we want. Do you want proactive or reactive? That is proactive policing. You see something where you think reasonable criminal
activity could be as afoot suspicion, then you engage. If you do not want that, then we have to have reactive policing.
HOSTIN: I do not want a police state.
POUMPOURAS: When the problem happens and we will respond.
HOSTIN: I do not want a police state.
POUMPOURAS: But, this is not a police state.
HOSTIN: Sure it is.
POUMPOURAS: What I am worried about -- this is what I am worried about, and just talking to my sources and former colleagues in law enforcement,
they no longer want to do their job because they are afraid that every time they talk to someone, that person happens to be of color or a minority or
they happen to be white or even if that is the case, simply because they are police, they will end up on a YouTube video, and they will lose all
their credibility. That is what is happening, so we are going to have a police force who is afraid to police.
HOSTIN: I think it is fascinating. I think it is fascinating that police officers are saying that they are afraid to do their job, because people
are watching them. I think that is the first thing.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Well -- But, Sunny, I got to tell you something, if they cannot do an assessment based on things like sweating --
HOSTIN: Like sweating?
PINSKY: Sweating is a massive sign.
HOSTIN: Sweating?
PINSKY: And, I need them to assess -- I need them assessing my patients when they are sweating.
HOSTIN: OK, but -- but --
PINSKY: That means they are either using or withdrawing --
(CROSSTALK)
HOSTIN: But, in the legal world --
PINSKY: And, guess who they are dealing with that in the world? They are dealing with drug addicts a lot of time. How much of the time? A lot of
the time.
JACKSON: Absolutely.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: And, I want them to know what sweating means. Assess the sweating.
HOSTIN: Sweating is not --
PINSKY: Is that a drug addict or not?
HOSTIN: Sweating does not amount to reasonable suspicion to stop someone. I mean should I be arrested now? I am sweating. It is ridiculous.
(LAUGHING)
SUMMERS: This is what the interesting thing.
POUMPOURAS: But, it is 12:30 at night. If it were 12:30 in the afternoon, that might not have gone down.
HOSTIN: I am hot.
SUMMERS: But, if you and I were running in that same area, I guarantee you, we would not be stopped.
MCENANY: That is a speculation.
JACKSON: I do not know about that.
SUMMERS: What is that?
HOSTIN: It is a reality.
MCENANY: It is just a speculation.
JACKSON: I do not know about that.
HOSTIN: It is a reality.
SUMMERS: Speculation? Here is what I do not understand --
JACKSON: I do not know about that.
SUMMERS: OK.
POUMPOURAS: That is an assumption.
SUMMERS: When you -- you say you have a 17-year-old son.
JACKSON: I do.
SUMMERS: And you have a 13-year-old son.
HOSTIN: Yes, I do.
SUMMERS: You say he is 5`10".
HOSTIN: Yes, he do.
SUMMERS: Every time they leave the house, I bet you are scared.
HOSTIN: I worry.
SUMMERS: OK. And, I have kids and I do not worry at all about it, because there is no racial profiling with white guys.
JACKSON: I do not worry. I am going to tell you something, I do not worry. You know why I do not worry?
SUMMERS: Because you have trained your kids --
JACKSON: Because I have told him --
SUMMERS: Yes.
JACKSON: -- to listen to what you are told, period. Right? It does not matter.
SUMMERS: And, is not that sad that in the United States of America that he has to do that.
JACKSON: Well, it could be sad, but if that is the reality, that is the reality we are going to live with. And, furthermore, let me say this.
That tape that I looked at, at YouTube, and it was not even over. It was 11 something minutes. OK?
PINSKY: Yes.
[21:40:00] JACKSON: Now, what about you just say, "License." "OK. Here is my license. I did nothing wrong. Run the warrant check. I am on my
way five minutes later." That is all it takes.
(CROSSTALK)
SUMMERS: How many times have you been stopped in your life?
JACKSON: Multiple times.
SUMMERS: OK.
JACKSON: As recently --
SUMMERS: And, you are fine with that? Are you good with it?
JACKSON: I am not good with it, but the reality is, is that sometimes, honestly, there was a basis, I am going too fast. Other times there has
not been.
(LAUGHING)
SUMMERS: OK. Hold on. Drew, how many times have you been stopped.
POUMPOURAS: I did not know this about you.
PINSKY: More times than I can count.
SUMMERS: Have you really been stopped?
PINSKY: And, I have been -- I have been roughed up by cops and they were black cops. I have talk about it on the show. Absolutely, and I did not
think cops were bad. I should not comply with them.
MCENANY: Yes.
PINSKY: Black cops are bad. They were black cops. I did not think any of those things. I thought it was a misunderstanding and they were doing
their job and I got to move on. I almost had my hand torn off by a cop.
SUMMERS: Seriously?
PINSKY: And, I just went on about my business afterwards in Pasadena.
SUMMERS: Wow!
POUMPOURAS: But, this is a thing too. When you stop people, 99 percent of those people lie to you. They -- All they do is manipulate and lie to you.
PINSKY: Well, that is the other thing.
POUMPOURAS: That is the thing.
PINSKY: That is -- but you can -- do not know that.
POUMPOURAS: So, you could be like, "Yeah, I am jogging." But, if like I - -- "OK, but how do you know you are jogging? I have to corroborate the evidence -- I have to corroborate the thing."
PINSKY: But, that is the part people understand.
HOSTIN: Sweating?
POUMPOURAS: You know what? Assume they let them go. "Yes. Hi, my name is Bob, Joe, Corey, whatever. All right, I am just jogging, let me go."
Then Corey leaves and goes commits a crime. They are going to go back to those officers and say, "Hey, you stopped this guy. There was suspicious
activity possibly. You let him go. He committed the crime."
HOSTIN: What was the suspicious activity?
PINSKY: Hey, guys, we are in Los Angeles. We are still talking --
HOSTIN: What was it?
PINSKY: We are still talking about the dark skinned guys that were stopped with the banana clips in the back of their car and were let to go on about
their business. And, then rob, shot up a bank, because there was no cause for that -- you know, for them to do anything with those banana clips.
They had to follow the rules. We still blame those cops to this day. That was 12-14 years ago. But, my question is, Joey. The issue with the
warrant, does that change anything? Somebody who thinks they have a warrant out and wants to protect themselves from hassles and they cannot
afford the costs -- I am sympathetic to that guy.
JACKSON: Right.
PINSKY: I do not know why he has warrants. I would like to know that. But, let us assume it is like, you know, a parking ticket or something.
JACKSON: Yes.
PINSKY: Can he protect himself?
JACKSON: No.
PINSKY: Does he have a right to protect themselves?
JACKSON: What happens is the encounter could be escalated. Now, police officer has a reasonable suspicion to stop you and you are not complying,
that is a basis to the officer that you are doing something wrong.
PINSKY: So, you cannot protect yourself.
JACKSON: You can protect --
PINSKY: Hang on. Sunny, you agree with that?
JACKSON: You can protect yourself by doing what you are told. And, if these officers did not exercise the restraint that they did, we would be
talking about this from another dynamic, because clearly they were negotiating with him and on the streets that I live on there is no
negotiations.
HOSTIN: Let me say this. Bottom line is there is that practical advice that as parents and his lawyers, we give our clients and we give our
children.
PINSKY: Yes.
HOSTIN: Of course, I tell my kids, "Comply, comply, comply. Then give me a call, we will sort it out."
PINSKY: Yes.
HOSTIN: But, then there is the law. The law that I love so much. And, the law tells me and it should tell you and it should tell you that a
person sweating does not give a law enforcement officer the right to detain them.
JACKSON: That is not the only fact.
(CROSSTALK)
POUMPOURAS: It not the --
HOSTIN: Thank God, the law --
JACKSON: Hold on one second. If I may --
HOSTIN: -- Should protect us.
JACKSON: If I may. That is not the only fact.
MCENANY: Yes.
JACKSON: When officers are doing their job, the facts amount. They do not take effect in isolation. You mount that against robberies in the area.
You mount that against -- it is 12:30 at night.
You mount that against commercial neighborhood and residential neighborhood, and you make an assessment. Again, it is a low-level
intrusion. The law I love, too. It is a low-level intrusion. You are not touching me. You are not arresting me. You are not guarding me off.
PINSKY: But, is it not the case?
JACKSON: You are just asking who I am.
PINSKY: But, is it not the case?
POUMPOURAS: And then also, he had actually been arrested before. He said, "Yes, I was just arrested a couple of weeks ago for trespassing." So, it
makes sense for him to not have them run his name, because they are going to see his arrest history. So, he does say that --
PINSKY: Is it more about certain neighborhoods getting shaken down even in color?
HOSTIN: Well, of course.
MCENANY: Of course.
JACKSON: Yes.
PINSKY: And, I think --
POUMPOURAS: This is the thing. Unfortunately, what happens is, and even if you talk to the different commissioners, even he is a commissioner of
NYPD, they target certain criminal behavior. And, unfortunately, the criminal behavior tends to point into neighborhood of color and minority.
So, you put more police there. More police witnessing misdemeanors hence more arrests --
(CROSSTALK)
HOSTIN: Why kids do not do drugs behind closed doors --
POUMPOURAS: Absolutely --
(CROSSTALK)
HOSTIN: Neighborhoods, either?
PINSKY: Say it again. They sell?
HOSTIN: They do not sell drugs in those --
PINSKY: Because the selling is what -- yes.
HOSTIN: They do not sell drugs in those neighborhoods?
PINSKY: The selling is the issue because they are going after where there is more selling, there is more cops. There is more problems. There is
more profiling.
HOSTIN: So, none of that occurs in white neighborhood, right?
PINSKY: Well, they tend to go around the neighborhood to get their drugs.
HOSTIN: Police officers just do not get to see it because they ignore those neighborhoods.
(CROSSTALKS)
PINSKY: We got to leave it. I got to leave it. I got to tell you what Corey told us today then I got to get out. We can go around and come back.
Joey, get on the show again. "I know there are good cops in the world, but when other abused their authority it makes it hard to trust any of them."
That is our jogger. That is Corey.
Coming up, a viral video. We have, our usual Click Fix -- well, I got a viral video of a toddler who is smoking and drinking. It is not so funny.
Guys, you think it is funny? Not so much. But, Joey, you have to come back and join us. That is all this means for more important conversations.
JACKSON: Looking forward to it.
PINSKY: We are back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Time for "Click Fix," where my guests tell me what is trending on their Twitter, Facebook and/or Instagram feeds. And, it is Sunny first.
HOSTIN: Well, this was incredible to me, because it is not something that you see every day. So there is this guy. He is in Oakland, California.
He is on the highway with a machete.
PINSKY: Oh, my God.
HOSTIN: There he is.
PINSKY: Oh my goodness. There he is.
HOSTIN: He is wielding this machete. It gets caught by cell phone video. It is about 3:00 in the morning. It is 3:00 A.M. And, his neighbors are
saying that he is smashing windows of parked cars with that machete. Well, what happens, he starts swinging at this passing car. A car circles back
and tries to hit him and the car backs up and intentionally hits him.
PINSKY: Uh-oh.
HOSTIN: And, now another driver comes in a car and, again, hits him.
PINSKY: Oh boy!
HOSTIN: A white cab -- car just plows into him. And, you know, once police and medics arrived, he is transported to a hospital and he is
treated for minor injuries. I am actually surprised that his injuries were not worse.
[21:50:07] PINSKY: Well, I am sure he is put in a hold psychiatrically.
HOSTIN: He was put on a psychiatric hold.
PINSKY: Yes. Yes.
HOSTIN: And, I will tell you, I think that what was so terrible. Because a lot of people just are not used of dealing with what we call at the U.S.
attorney`s office EDPs, Emotionally Disturbed Persons.
PINSKY: Yes.
HOSTIN: And, that is not the way to do it. You do not try to strike the person with a car.
PINSKY: No.
HOSTIN: You call 911. You call the authorities and you get some help for this person -- a sick person.
PINSKY: That is the typical things that cause that is someone with paranoid schizophrenia.
HOSTIN: Sure.
PINSKY: Who is decompensated for some reason, a bipolar disorder is decompensated or somebody with drug and alcohol, either some adverse
reaction where they are psychotic or even just an intoxicated state. Marc?
SUMMERS: OK. Let us go to Greece. These are three --
PINSKY: Can we, please?
(LAUGHING)
SUMMERS: That is right now. Three new viral video stars and, trust me, they did not want this honor. Going to Greece. This guy is playing a game
of soccer and he gets hurt. And, these rescuers, these two men go to pick him up and they drop him once and then they drop him a second time.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: No. Oh, no. The guy is hurt.
SUMMERS: And, then they take him to the sideline and they just sort of dump him off. And, here is my feeling, I think this is all set up. I do
not believe this for a second. And, I will tell you why. I am a king of stick meister because I started off in stand-up comedy. Those are the
worst prep falls I have ever seen and I think this is intentional and I do not think this is real at all.
PINSKY: It looks like Monty python.
SUMMERS: Yes, does not it?
PINSKY: Yes.
HOSTIN: It is awful.
SUMMERS: It is a little phony to me. So, I do not buy it. Why people want to do this, I have no idea.
PINSKY: Please ring in on our Facebook page and/or Instagram and/or Twitter to let us know, what you know about the facts surrounding that
particular thing. If you know something, if you saw this, you were there or you know somebody who was, let us know. Was that factual or was that
some sort of joke, halftime joke. Kayleigh?
MCENANY: This is a little bit of a happier story. It is about a wedding. Typically, you know, when we have a wedding video, it goes viral because of
a crazy dance that happens or you know, the bride falling or something.
But, this story was pretty remarkable. This young woman who posted a picture of her and her dad. And, she wrote in the caption of the photo, "I
am dancing with my first love. I was able to present a certificate of purity to him today signed by my doctor. I love you, daddy."
So, she presented her dad with this virginity certificate and her reason to me was what was so beautiful about this. She said, you know, "Women -- not
everyone is having sex. I chose not to. And, if a man loves you, he is going to stick by you."
She had a beautiful post. I encouraged everyone to look at social media. And, hey, in a culture where we have a lot of Miley Cyruses. It is pretty
me to see this girl who did this. And, her father who came to her defense when she received intense backlash from social media.
PINSKY: Backlash? Well, what is the backlash?
MCENANY: Yes. People were coming after her.
PINSKY: You cannot make a choice?
MCENANY: You can make a choice and unless you are making a racy choice like that of Miley Cyrus, you know, then people may love you.
HOSTIN: And, that is what is fascinating. People -- If you like scroll down, and you look at the comments, people were really trashing her --
MCENANY: Yes.
HOSTIN: And they thought it was weird and sick. And, I thought the same thing, is not that lovely that someone decided to make that choice and
could make that choice?
SUMMERS: Yes.
HOSTIN: And, I think more young people, quite frankly, need to think about abstinence and need to think about making that choice.
MCENANY: No doubt about it.
PINSKY: Modesty can be a source of power, right?
HOSTIN: Absolutely.
PINSKY: For women. Throughout history women have used that as a power. If someone wants to use that, why not?
SUMMERS: Interesting, I gave my father the same certificate.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: I want to see that certificate before the day is out.
Next up, I am going to bring my "Click Fix," which is a crazy shocking video of a toddler, who is smoking and drinking and adults cheering him on.
You got to see this. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Disturbing viral video believed to be from Spain. Sorry, Marc, not from Greece. This is two men who encourage a toddler to drink beer and
smoke cigarettes. That is the beer in that glass.
These unidentified men reportedly from Romania laugh as they hold a cigarette to the boy -- there it is. The cigarette being held to the boy
is mouth, watching him chugging beer. The video was posted to Facebook by a man from Madrid who asked if anyone recognized these men, please report
it, so they can then send them to the appropriate authorities.
This is not funny. Listen, in terms of probability of alcoholism -- if somebody is going to develop a drug and alcohol problem, particularly in
this country, their first drink is at home. And, oftentimes, under the supervision of their family, under the name of, "We are teaching you how to
use alcohol." Well, guess what? That is where the problems get started.
HOSTIN: Well, this is child abuse.
PINSKY: Absolutely.
HOSTIN: I mean if this happened in the United States and I was a prosecutor and I was looking at that, I would find them and then I would of
course charge them with child abuse. And, so, I think it is just unbelievable that these kinds of things exist. I mean what are people
thinking? We talk about parenting a lot. I mean what is that?
PINSKY: By the way, we blame ourselves as Americans, we think we are so awful. This is not from America shockingly.
MCENANY: Yes. And, these guys said they were teaching their son to be a real man. And, that was so disturbing to me. If I look around my
generation and so many men think that things like this is being a real man.
HOSTIN: Yes.
MCENANY: And, we have lost the definition of what a real man is. It is certainly not feeding your baby alcohol.
SUMMERS: Not at all. It is frightening. Now, in Europe, certainly, the culture is different. You start drinking table wine.
PINSKY: But, Marc, I see this -- alcoholism is something I have treated most of my career and always when I would lecture Europeans, I go, "Oh no,
in our country -- their data on complications of alcoholism is off the charts.
SUMMERS: In Europe --
PINSKY: In Europe, they claim -- they ignore it. They brush it over with all sorts of cultural -- they have horrific problems with alcohol. So,
this is about teaching at the table is nonsense.
HOSTIN: I have to say, you know, my husband was born in Spain. He is originally from Spain and when my children go to Spain, they certainly do
have wine at the table and it is a cultural thing.
PINSKY: They end up with lots and lots of trouble. If they do not have the gene, it does not matter. Reminder, we are on Snap Chat. You can join
us there. The address is DrDrewHLN. DVR us then watch us anytime. Thank you, panel. Great job. Thank you all for watching.
[22:00:03] MCENANY: Thank you.
PINSKY: We will see you next time.
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