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Dr. Drew
The Transgender Superstar Is Under Attack As A Magazine Plans To Honor Her As The "Woman of the Year"; Glamour Magazine Plans To Name Caitlyn Jenner Its "Woman Of The Year" This Year; The Parents Of A Teen Who Was Killed By Police Are Fighting Back; A School Safety Officer Takes Down A Young Student In A Classroom; Dr. Drew`s Thoughts On Lamar Odom. Aired 9- 10p ET
Aired October 26, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:13] DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, Caitlyn Jenner, woman of the year? The transgender superstar is under attack as a magazine plans to
honor her. Plus, a teen is killed by police. His parents now fighting back.
It all starts right now with the top of the feed. Glamour magazine plans to name Caitlyn Jenner its "Woman of the Year" this year. And, even some
of Caitlyn`s supporters are wondering, "Is this award in fact an insult to women everywhere?" Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZOEY TUR, TRANSGENDER REPORTER: Did she deserve the honor? Probably not. Is she brave? Of course she is brave. All those years invested as a
sports legend to come out transgender is horribly difficult.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, ENTERTAINMENT JOURNALIST: She is a 65-year-old rich white woman that decided to do this, but do not tell me you are walking the truth
for other transgender kids.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROLONDA WATTS, HOST OF "ROLONDA WATTS ON DEMAND" PODCAST: You cannot deny the fact that she gave hope to someone out there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: How I felt about Bruce Jenner, because I will not call him Caitlyn because he is not a woman, he cannot
bear a child. He does not have a menstrual at the end of the month. He is not a woman. God made man and woman. He made man and woman for a reason,
and Bruce Jenner is destroying what God created.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANESSA BARNETT, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: I cannot take off my skin color any more than anyone should be chopping off body parts in my opinion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL CATHERWOOD, DR. DREW`S CO-HOST ON "LOVE LINE" AND KABC RADIO AND HOST OF "CHAIN REACTION" ON GSN: I do worry that with reality shows and
these magazine covers, that a community that has already been the victim of exploitation will then be further exploited for media purposes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Let us get into this. Joining me, Samantha Schacher, "Pop Trigger" on Hulu.com; Crystal Wright, conservative commentator,
conservativeblackchick.com; Michael Catherwood, my "Love Line" and KABC radio co-host; Jessica Taylor, first transgender airline pilot.
And, take a look -- thank you, everybody. Take a look at what contributor Nicole Russell wrote in the "Federalist." She says, quote, "By choosing
Jennifer as woman of the year, "Glamour" endorses the idea that men are better at being women than we are. Apparently, real women cannot cut it,
so we got to import some men into our ranks to win awards." Crystal.
(LAUGHING)
CRYSTAL WRIGHT, CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR: Exactly right. Look, Caitlyn is not a woman. Caitlyn is a person, a woman formerly known as Bruce Jenner.
And, I think it is an insult to women -- I know a woman who would be great to receive this award.
Her name is Mary Katherine Hamm, and she lost her husband tragically. She is a 35-year-old conservative. She is a commentator on Fox News Channel.
She has a 2-year-old. She is pregnant with her second child that is due in December.
PINSKY: But, wait. Crystal --
WRIGHT: She has real courage.
PINSKY: That is why they sell magazine.
WRIGHT: She has real courage.
PINSKY: I just lost a bunch of viewers just hearing the story.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, "POP TRIGGER" ON HULU.COM: OK. Caitlyn has a lot of courage too.
WRIGTH: I mean come on!
SCHACHER: Caitlyn has a lot of courage too. And, first of all, they are not just honoring one woman, they are honoring a number of women. And,
clearly the woman that you suggested as well as a number of women deserve this honor as does Caitlyn, because it is very hard to come out as trans,
OK?
PINSKY: But -- of course it is.
SCHACHER: And, if it is empathy voting, a lot of empathy which does save lives.
WRIGHT: Is she a woman?
SCHACHER: Caitlyn is definitely woman.
WRIGHT: No. She is not.
SCHACHER: She is identified as a woman. Yes, she is.
WRIGHT: Caitlyn Jenner said that he is not -- she is not going to cut off her penis.
SCHACHER: She. She.
WRIGHT: So, she is not a woman.
SCHACHER: But, there is --
WRIGHT: She is transgender. So, if glamour wants to do the transgender award of the year --
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
SCHACHER: Genitalia -- Genitalia does not --
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: I got it. I got it. Ladies. Help me. Help me. That is why you are here, Jessica. Straighten this out.
JESSICA TAYLOR, FIRST TRANSGENDER AIRLINE PILOT: And, this is the best part. You have had a female privilege your entire life. Imagine not
having any privilege. --
PINSKY: Wait. Slow down.
TAYLOR: You step out.
PINSKY: Slow down, Jessica. Wait, wait, wait. So, male privilege is which what we are used to hearing about.
(LAUGHING)
TAYLOR: Absolutely. No, I am saying. You go from male to female and then to nothing. When you come out in public as you said, wearing a dress in
public as a man, you lose everything. I do not care what you have owned, what you have had. You lose everything. All your credibility, everything
you own especially as an airline pilot, you lose everything. People think you cannot even drive a car much less win the "Woman of the Year" award.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: So, where do you come down on this? You think this is a good thing that she is --
TAYLOR: I think that Caitlyn -- definitely, she has done something absolutely amazing in her life. Now, woman of the year? I mean Reese
Witherspoon? Are you kidding me? She has done things in her life that are absolutely epic, and she has created a film industry all of her own. I
mean it is incredible.
But, "Woman of the Year," I am kind of split with it. I mean to transition at the age with all this money, it is a lot easier than you think it is.
For somebody that is impoverished, that is living on the street to transition --
WRIGHT: Right.
TAYLOR: You are talking about redefining your entire life.
WRIGHT: I agree with you on that. And, I think that the real courage is for somebody who is on the street for a teenager to say, "Hey, I am
confused sexually." That is real courage. Bruce Jenner is privileged. I am sorry.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: Caitlyn Jenner, first of all --
WRIGHT: OK. Well, I cannot keep up with it, I am sorry. It is terrible.
TAYLOR: How do you not keep up with it?
SCHACHER: No, it is not terrible.
TAYLOR: It is a simple pronoun --
WRIGHT: I am a human being. I am sorry.
PINSKY: One at a time. One a time.
WRIGHT: I am sorry.
TAYLOR: She has been in treatment for months now --
WRIGHT: That is her problem -- it is not my problem.
TAYLOR: No, that is disrespect. That is disrespectful.
WRIGHT: How old is Bruce Jenner, like 60 some years old?
TAYLOR: I am sorry. That is totally disrespectful.
WRIGHT: Privileged white person who is making a lot of money off coming out and having -- Follow him or her around.
PINSKY: OK. Hold on.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:05:00] SCHACHER: Can I get I in really quickly, though, Dr Drew. Com on! Hold on. You mentioned crystal that you are concerned with the teens
out there that may be struggling with this.
PINSKY: Or people who do not have the same kind of resources.
SCHACHER: Right.
SCHACHER: But by Caitlyn doing this, and educating the masses, because there is a lot of people out there who were not really even familiar with
trans men a year ago. So, by her having this conversation, for a lot of people to understand what it is like to be trans, to be discriminated
against, to have a higher rate of suicide, to have a higher rate of being a victim of violent crime --
PINSKY: But, wait.
(CROSSTALK)
TAYLOR: Dr. Drew, this type of hatred -- this type of attitude you have toward trans people, it is the same exact reason people are killing
themselves.
SCACHER: Yes.
WRIGHT: No, it is not.
SCHACHER: Yes, it is.
TAYLOR: Yes, it is.
WRIGHT: Tell me why did --
TAYLOR: This type of attitude is the same exact --
WRIGHT: OK. I have a question. Why did John Hopkins stop performing reassignment surgeries in the 1970s? You know why? What you have said,
Sam --
SCHACHER: In the 1970s?
TAYLOR: 1970s.
SCHACHER: Wow! We are in 2015.
TAYLOR: I know.
WRIGHT: They are still not doing, you know why?
TAYLOR: I know. This is the type of --
WRIGHT: OK. It does not matter. It is OK. You are right. You are right.
PINSKY: What crystal is getting at is, there is data -- that some data out there that suggests that the postop outcomes were not very good.
WRIGHT: Suicides were up.
SCHACHER: Well, do you know why, though?
PINSKY: Hang on. So, the question -- so, to me that means, we physicians maybe were not selecting the right patients for the surgery. That is on
us.
WRIGHT: Hopkins still will not do it, though, Dr, Drew.
PINSKY: I am just saying. I want to get to the audience. Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENC MEMBER: First of all, maybe Caitlyn Jenner is the transgender woman of the year, but not the woman of the year, because
she is not a woman.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
WRIGHT: Amen!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Second of all, the fact that you are making a comment saying women are born with privilege, makes me wonder how
much you really understand about women. Because we are born with the least privilege in this country.
We make less money. We get less respect. We have to work thrice as hard to get what men get in what place does. So, to say that women get more
privilege, this how much do you know about being a woman?
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
TAYLOR: No. I am going to tell you right now. I went from a male privilege, 6`3" tall, very dominant male privilege.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: But --
TAYLOR: Hold on. Hold on.
PINSKY: Hold on.
TAYLOR: No, no.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: You guys --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: You want to talk about being brave, we do this bravely every day, not by choice.
TAYLOR: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: But, that is what we have been given.
PINSKY: Hold on. Hold on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: And, that is what we deal for the -- so, I do not think you should be entitled to some sort of --
TAYLOR: I never talked about entitle.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: -- courage to make a choice to change your sexuality.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: OK. Hang on. Hold on your mic. All right.
TAYLOR: I am sorry. This type of hatred and ignorance in our country is exactly what I fight every single day.
PINSKY: It is like, you have to deal with it every day.
TAYLOR: I went from male to female in my industry.
PINSKY: And, here you are standing at the front of the aircraft?
TAYLOR: That is right.
PINSKY: And, how do people treat you?
TAYLOR: I lost everything. I realized the first day I transitioned when a passenger was getting off the aircraft and I -- I did not realize my
captain was behind me. And, he looked right through me to my captain to figure out where he needed to go. I was a mist in his day. I realized
that I have lost everything that I had gained as a male and now I had none of this.
PINSKY: And, you said something about female privilege, you started --
TAYLOR: I think that women have a lot more privilege than they think they do.
PINSKY: OK.
TAYLOR: And, I stepped into this side --
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Hang on. But -- No, no. Hold on.
SCHACHER: Why?
PINSKY: What is wrong with --
SCHACHER: Listen to people laughing. This is like a lynch mob here. This makes me so uncomfortable.
PINSKY: Hey. Hey, I know. That is why I am trying to --
SCHACHER: Come from a place of empathy, please.
PINSKY: Everybody. Everybody.
SCHACHER: It is disgusting.
PINSKY: So, did you get to feel any of that or because you are --
TAYLOR: Absolutely, I just wrote an article for a women in aviation type thing. And, I said, going from a male to a female world in this industry,
a very male dominated industry, 1 percent is female.
PINSKY: Yes
TAYLOR: I have had to redesign everything I have done into this female role of being somebody that is dominant, yet that can be relied upon in a
professional situation just like the girls. I have had to do what they have had to do, but 10 times better.
PINSKY: Right. OK. So, here is what we do. Let me continue this conversation. Where is my camera here. Clearly -- come on, guys. There
we are. OK.
I am going to -- we are going to keep this going, guys, slowly roll. I have not heard from Mike yet.
MICHAEL CATHERWOOD, "LOVE LINE" AND KABC RADIO CO-HOST: No.
PINSKY: He, probably, have not opened his mouth yet.
CATHERWOOD: I have not opened my mouth.
(LAUGHING)
WRIGHT: He is not a woman. He feels, you know, he cannot talk.
PINSKY: He is going to tell us something else later, really. Do not worry.
Later, the parents of a teen who was killed by police are fighting back. I got of that story more. It is all after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:09:28] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[21:13:30] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I will not go call him any kind of names, but I will not refer to him as a woman.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SASHA PERSICHETTI, TRANSGENDER WOMAN: The transgender community is born with the soul that they identify as, she was born with a soul of a woman.
So, God made her exactly this way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Here is Peter Berg, best known for producing "Friday Night Lights." He posted this picture on Instagram with the caption, quote, "One
man traded two legs for the freedom of the other to trade two balls for two boobs."
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: Guess which man made the cover of Vanity Fair?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHACHER: There is many different ways to save lives. I believe that Caitlyn Jenner bringing this conversation to the forefront is saving lives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ODUOLOWU: Caitlyn Jenner does not walk in the shoes of those young transgender youth, because they do not have the means that she has.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZOEY TUR, TRANSGENDER WOMAN REPORTER: Being brave is being yourself and being transgender is about the bravest thing you can do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: We are in the middle of a conversation here. Critics say Caitlyn Jenner is not woman enough to be "Glamour" magazine`s "Woman of the Year."
Back with Sam, Crystal, Mike, Jessica. And, that is the issue here that we sort of drifted away from, which was, is it the fact -- did you heard the
original criticism, which was, "Oh, really? We cannot -- women cannot get to be woman of the year. You have to make a man a woman for that to be the
"Woman of the Year." Jessica, that really I think was the core of the argument; not, certainly, we have drifted into. Does that make sense?
TAYLOR: Yes. Absolutely. And, that is the weird part, is for me, when I really -- I search my soul, whether or not Caitlyn should win the "Woman of
the Year." -- Mostly because she is transitioned. She has had some time now. What are you doing to win the hearts and minds and souls of people in
the United States to convince the majority that we are not crazy.
[21:15:03] PINSKY: But -- See, I think it is a separate phenomenon. I think that is the another battle. And, God bless you, we talked about that
at length, you and I and in this room as well. But, the other issue is, why cannot "Women of the Year," be honored for being scientists and
captains of industry.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
WRIGHT: Right.
PINSKY: Why, would not that be the "Woman of the Year?"
WRIGHT: Like I told you. Why cannot --
PINSKY: But your friend is a single mom.
WRIGHT: Right.
PINSKY: I get it, that is a thing too.
WRIGHT: Yes. But, why cannot we be honored for the courage that we show. I mean I think it is really abysmal and a disgrace that we have talked
about Caitlyn Jenner, BRUCE JENNER in my mind this whole freaking year. I mean how many awards is this millionaire going to get for saying, "Hey, I
am going to use my coming out party to make more mullah."
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Wait, wait, wait. Let me get really quick --
WRIGHT: It is ridiculous, especially --
PINSKY: Guys, I got to get Mike in this.
WRIGHT: Well, no.
PINSKY: Mike, help me out of here.
WRIGHT: Especially in the sense that transgender represent less than 1 percent of the population, I am sorry, there are a lot of people
struggling. You are not the only one struggling.
SCHACHER: Wow! Wow!
PINSKY: Mike, go ahead. Mike, go ahead. All right.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
CATHERWOOD: When I think about, "Woman of the Year," you know, I have a daughter, and when I analyze like, "Woman of the Year," I would want this
woman to represent someone that I would want my daughter to be like. And, certainly, being transgender has no factor in this. It is like --
PINSKY: Wait. Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
CATHERWOOD: No. No. Meaning --
PINSKY: The courageous person.
CATHERWOOD: Whether or not Caitlyn transitioned, that is very impressive. That is beautiful.
PINSKY: Yes.
WRIGHT: Is it?
CATHERWOOD: But, it is not like she transitioned and then fought Al Qaeda.
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
WRIGHT: Thank you.
CATHERWOOD: Or she transitioned and --
WRIGHT: Thank you.
TAYLOR: No. She went from one of the nation`s leading Olympians to a woman, and they wanted to take away everything. The fact that the Olympic
committee, actually, let her keep her medals is incredible.
CATHERWOOD: I have no way trying to --
PINSKY: Let me get to the audience. Guys, audience.
CATHERWOOD: All right.
PINSKY: Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: So, I think we keep on talking about what is a woman, that she is not a woman. Denying the fact she is not a
woman. And, I think we got to get back to the fact to what is a woman? Is a woman simply a body part between your legs. Because if it is --
WRIGHT: Yes, it is.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: -- then I would say, you are walking into why men objectify women.
TAYLOR: Yes.
WRIGHT: So, why do we have men and women? Why appropriate? --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: OK? Because women are far more than what is between their legs.
WRIGHT: Why have babies?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: It is what is in their heart, what is in their souls, what is in their mind. OK.
SCHACHER: I agree with you. I agree, and there is plenty of data out there, and science out there that suggests that your genitalia does not
justifying your gender, your brain does. And, at the end of the day, why are people chuckling? Why do you guys cares so much about somebody living
their truth.
You, guys, to me you have to put yourself in someone else`s shoes. If there is a trans teen watching right now, who is struggling with their
gender identity. Why would you want to make them feel even more ostracized.
WRIGHT: I agree with you about -- one quick -- one thing.
SCHACHER: Why? Accept them, love them, tolerate that.
WRIGHT: You said it is about --
SCHACHER: Accept them, love them, tolerate that.
WRIGHT: Right. Sam. OK. Off your soap box, I will get on mine.
SCHACHER Off my soap box?
WRIGHT: You said it is about the people --
SCHACHER: It is called caring.
WRIGHT: Yes, it is about people living their truth.
SCHACHER: Wow. Do we have a bunch of bullies, tonight? I want to walk out. It is.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Hold on. One at a time. Wait, cannot hear anything.
WRIGHT: My truth does not accept your truth that Bruce Jenner is some hero. And, I am not going to call him Caitlyn. It is Bruce Jenner. He
can keep the medals because he won them as a man. He is not a woman.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
TAYLOR: And, you know what the best part is.
WRIGHT: And, that is my truth. And, my truth could be just -- I respect that you want to keep what you are doing.
TAYLOR: You know what?
PINSKY: I got to stand up, again.
WRIGHT: I do not want it for my nieces, sorry.
PINSKY: Finish your thought.
TAYLOR: I am just -- I am heartbroken --
SCHACHER: Yes.
TAYLOR: -- by you. I honestly am. I literally want to cry for people like you, because I know a lot of people, they are very last words and e-
mails were from people like you just before they killed themselves.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: Stay here.
WRIGHT: That is not true.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi. We did not really answer the question of, "What is a woman?"
PINSKY: Right. And, what is a woman of the year, too. What are the criteria, what are we looking for here?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Right.
PINSKY: Is it something to sell glamour magazines, which seems to be their main -- here we are talking about it.
CATHERWOOD: Yes, of course, that is the -- Listen, "Glamour" magazine is in the business of selling "Glamour" magazine, not giving the Nobel Prize.
PINSKY: As a consuming public, we have a bigger stake in this, frankly. Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I would say that if you have a feeling of being a woman, if you have the spirit of a woman, and if you are
willing to take the steps to become a woman, than you are more of a woman than I am. Though, I do not think that --
PINSKY: Though. Though -- hang on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: If you are willing to be that brave to take all of those steps then you have something that a lot of women
cannot find the courage to have.
PINSKY: Do you want to tell Jessica that? I mean because --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I think you are an amazing woman, of course.
TAYLOR: Thank you.
(AUDIENCE APLAUDING)
CATHERWOOD: I agree completely. There is nobody -- this is America, no one is going to tell anybody that they cannot have their opinions or their
beliefs on how acceptable or tolerant they are going to be to the trans community. My question is, and I am sure Jessica could shed some light is,
why does anybody care?
If you do not want to call Caitlyn, Caitlyn, fine, but no one is forcing anybody to be transgender or to attempt anything. But realize that Jessica
and other transgender people in the world, they are human beings and this is how you felt like you needed to lead your life. End of story.
[21:20:00] TAYLOR: And, Mike, this is at the root of what we are trying to accomplish. I want the same rights and the same privilege to pursue my
life and liberty and pursuit of happiness that you have also. And, it is not that way right now.
PINSKY: Right.
TAYLOR: In order to be a pilot, I had to go through a year long process, just to show them I was sane.
CATHERWOOD: And, the anger and the kind of anti-trans sentiment that I see a lot of times. It begs the question, like if there is some meeting going
on, where people are under a belief that like a trans mob is going to come to your house and force you to cut your dick off.
PINSKY: Whoa!
CATHERWOOD: You know, it is like why do you care?
TAYLOR: I agree. But, we do have religious people coming to your house and trying to convince you of their religion and we are the ones taking the
heat.
PINSKY: Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I just want to say, I really think that Caitlyn is an amazing person for transitioning. It is a very hard
thing to come out and do that.
PINSKY: Sure. Jessica can share that with you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: It is an amazing thing. However, I do not -- from what I have seen, I have not seen her do anything other than
go to the pride parade --
TAYLOR: No, no, no, no.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I have not seen her do anything --
SCHACHER: She had done a lot.
TAYLOR: She went and she engaged in GLAAD. She is doing some amazing things, especially with the youth. And, I can tell you right now. Her
transition opened up this language in every household in the United States, whether good or bad, it opened it up for a conversation.
PINSKY: It certainly has had us talking about it here.
TAYLOR: Yes.
PINSKY: I did not think we were going to get that far, that deep into the conflict tonight.
SCHACHER: But, that is what it should be about, though, Dr. Drew.
CATHERWOOD: She certainly added to LGBT, mostly a popular culture. Thanks to Caitlyn.
WRIGHT: But, like Mike said, who cares? I do not care. I do not have to care. I am glad you are living your truth. I do not care. And, I am so
sick of waking up every morning --
TAYLOR: So, stop fighting -- make human rights.
WRIGHT: And Matt Lauer interviewing Caitlyn on the "Today" show. I mean it is sucking the oxygen out of real problems going on.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: All right. We are going to have to leave it. Thank you for being here.
TAYLOR: You are welcome.
PINSKY: You are all right? You want the last word?
TAYLOR: I just -- I am -- this is at the heart of Jessica, and this is where I come in for my human rights advocacy work is no matter what you
say, and this is something -- I do not know if you heard this from your parents, I will love you. I do not care about our differences as a human,
you are loved. And, that is not common in the United States, because of these clappings that I hear from this audience.
SCHACHER: Thank you. Thank you.
TAYLOR: Leave it there, peace and love. Next up, we are switching topics, I got a 17-year-old boy -- white boy, right? Is it Caucasian young man?
Yes. Killed by police. There was an outrage initially. Now, the parents are suing, the story update, and we will get into the weeds of it after
this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[21:26:27] SGT. JONATHAN FROST, EATON COUNTY SHERIFF`S DEPARTMENT: Pulled you over today because you flashed me. I did not even have my brights on.
DEVEN GUILFORD, TEEN DRIVER KILLED BY POLICE: Yes, you did, sir.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A 17-year-old Deven Guilford on his way to his girlfriend`s house.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FROST: Driver`s license, registration, proof of insurance, please. I did not have them on.
GUILFORD: I did not have --
FROST: Driver`s license, registration, proof of insurance, please.
GUILFORD: I do not even know you are an officer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ (voice-over): Sergeant Frost asked seven times for Guilford`s license. And, every time the teen refuses. The officer sees Guilford try
to make a phone call and orders him out of the car.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FROST: Get out of the car or you are going to get tased. Everything is being recorded, so I got no problem with that. Get out of the car. Get
down on the ground, now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ (voice-over): Sergeant Frost kicks Guilford`s cell phone away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFORD: I do not have a weapon. Hey. You cannot do that.
FROST: Son, get your hands behind your back. You are under arrest.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ (voice-over): Sergeant Frost tases Guilford, but he is too close for it to work properly. Roughly, 14 seconds later you hear gunshots.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: That deadly encounter is now the center of a federal civil rights lawsuit filed by the teen`s family. I am back with Sam, Crystal, Mike.
Joining us, AnneElise Goetz, Attorney, host of the podcast, "Your Life and the Law." Cheryl Dorsey, Sergeant, LAPD retired, Author of "The Creation
of a Manifesto Black & Blue." Sam, there is more to be told here. Tell us.
SCHACHER: Yes. More to the story. That video was 16 minutes long. Deven was shot seven times. The cop asked him for his license six times
before Deven admitted that he did not have it. His wallet was at his girlfriend`s house.
The cop said, in light of a recent warning, he thought Deven might be calling an anti-police militia when he took out his cell phone. Deven was
calling his girlfriend. The cop had also called for backup twice. It did not arrive until after the shooting, and the cop was not charged because
the prosecutor said, "It was self-defense."
PINSKY: Sergeant Dorsey, I am anxious to get your analysis of this. This seems like, just -- you know, something that went very, very wrong.
CHERYL DORSEY, SERGEANT, LAPD RETIRED: So, you there has to be a little common sense on the side of both parties, right?
PINSKY: Yes.
DORSEY: But, you know, what people need to understand is that, there is a reason why I say you should comply with an officer`s order or direction,
because you do not know who you are dealing with.
And, so sometimes you wind up with that individual like this officer, who may escalate the situation to a deadly force incident. Now, I am told that
there was an altercation, and so that is problematic for me. Because as a police officer, if you hit me and you understand who I am, I am in uniform,
bad things will happen.
PINSKY: Crystal.
WRIGHT: Is not that interesting that Cheryl said the same mess about this 17-year-old white unarmed teen headline we do not hear. But, I did not
hear any of that kind of talk -- I mean would you have said the same thing, Cheryl, about the Michael Brown situation that Michael Brown should have
obeyed the police officer?
Would you have said the same thing about Tamir Rice? They were all black and it seems like, if that applies to this white young man, right? It
should apply to the so-called unarmed black teens that Black Lives Matter is all up in arms.
PINSKY: Let us Sergeant Dorsey answer.
WRIGHT: Right.
SERGEANT DORSEY: Here is the difference for me. Mike Brown was not engaged in an altercation. Tamir Rice was not fighting the officer. And,
so I just speak the truth. And, if you are fighting an officer, bad things happen. And, so I spoke out about --
WRIGHT: Michael Brown did not comply --
SERGEANT DORSEY: I spoke out about an incident here in Los Angeles that involved a homeless man by the name Africa, who got into an altercation
with officers, LAPD and subsequently was shot and killed. And, so, my best advice is comply. Because, sometimes police officers know things you do
not know.
And, so, I am not going to engage you in courtside justice. I am not going to explain to you why I am doing what I am doing. Let me do my job. Let
me be safe and then I will explain to you later. But, of you engage me and if you put your hands on me, bad things will happen.
[21:30:07] PINSKY: AnneElise, you will be able to handle this later in a courtroom. "Put your hands behind you and lie down. Get through it and
then called AnneElise."
ANNEELISE GOETZ, ATTORNEY AD HOST OF "YOUR LIFE AND THE LAW" PODCAST: That is what you do. I would tell every client that. There is all these
YouTube videos that are out right now. I think as a result, the YouTube videos, people think, and I am a proponent, know your rights. Know your
rights.
PINSKY: What are these YouTube videos?
GOETZ: The YouTube videos are how to engage with a cop in the sort of civil disobedience. And, you do not have to respond, you do not have to
get out of your car.
PINSKY: Is that true?
GOETZ: You can challenge them. None of that is true. What they are saying is, yes, you are learning certain aspects of the law, so -- you
know, do they have reasonable cause to arrest you? These are all things that we will fight about in court.
PINSKY: Later. I mean, reasonable cause is, "You did not do what I told you to."
SCHACHER: Wait a second.
PINSKY: Is not that reasonable cause, Cheryl? Would not that be it?
GOETZ: In this case, it is a reason that you can actually sue the cops and get money, but you do not have that engagement. You do not have that
altercation at the car with the cop. You let the lawyers do it after.
SCHACHER: But, he was just asking questions, though. He was asking questions, and it was an unlawful stop. He knew that. He was within his
rights.
GOETZ: That is questionable.
SCHACHER: Well, first of all, if this police officer was all about protecting and serving and he saw multiple people try to let him know that
his lights were too bright, do not you think he would have said, "Oh, let me go back to the station and I figure out why they are too bright,"
instead of getting into the car and continuing to pull people out --
GOETZ: But. OK. So, he pulls him over because there is a law saying, "You cannot flash the lights within 500 feet of an oncoming traffic.
SCHACHER: Three people --
GOETZ: But, what really matters here is if you watch the tape, there is this engagement. There is an engagement where Deven, I believe his name
is. Deven says, "I am taping this," and the officer says, "Fine. I am taping it." And, it is a very cordial relationship for a while.
PINSKY: Let us look it more from the body cam. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFORD: I am video and audio recording for my safety and your safety.
FROST: Yes, that is absolutely fine. So, am I.
GUILFORD: You just told me that I could not have your badge number.
FROST: My badge number?
GUILFORD: That is against the law, sir.
FROST: No, you asked me to show it to you.
GUILFORD: Yes.
FROST: I cannot show it to you.
GUILFORD: And, you said, no.
FROST: My badge number --
GUILFORD: You told me no. Is that correct?
FROST: No, it is not.
GUILFORD: It is correct, sir.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CATHERWOOD: I am sure a lot of people are going to want to dance around this. And, I really -- I do not want to talk poorly about this young man,
because he has passed and he was shot and killed.
This kid is pretty smug, and as someone who is unfortunately been on the wrong side of dealing with cops, you know, when I was that kid`s age, I am
shocked by how far he takes this, and by how long that cop remains patient. Because --
SCHACHER: Smug or is he curious why he was pulled over?
PINSKY: No, because Mike`s face was in the asphalt when he went back to --
(LAUGHING)
CATHERWOOD: Yes.
PINSKY: Twice.
SCHACHER: Well, this kid is now six feet under, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: I am just saying.
SCHACHER: What price do you have to pay?
CATHERWOOD: I do not in any way want to talk poorly.
WRIGHT: I do not think this is so clear cut.
CATHERWOOD: I think it is important -- I mean the cops being relatively patient here, and he does not really force him into any of this hostility.
PINSKY: Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I happen to agree with you at just looking at the video and seeing the young man`s actions, I think was
incredibly inappropriate. Did he deserve to die for it? Absolutely not.
CATHERWOOD: No. Of course not. No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: There is -- they are trained professionals that are picked to handle this type of job, to handle the
stresses, and just seeing everything that is happening on television and young people getting shot, from these trained professionals that we all
trust with our lives is heart breaking.
SCHACHER: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Absolutely heart breaking, and that is coming from a daughter of a police officer.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
SERGEANT DORSEY: And, so for me, that is why it is so important when an officer tells you to do something that you should do it, because you do not
know who you are dealing with. You do not know the mentality of this particular person.
I think there was something very telling, very early on when the officer said, "If you do not do what I say, I am going to tase you." I think he
was telegraphing that this is about to be about punishment, right? If you do not do what I say, there is a price to pay that content of cop thing
that I talked about.
PINSKY: Yes.
SERGEANT DORSEY: And, I think if that young man had been a little more savvy, he would have understood things are about to go really bad, really
quick, and just be quiet.
PINSKY: All right. We are going to keep this going. I think the point is well taken. I think that it is an easy way for all of us to sort of learn
from this.
Later, a school safety officer takes down a young student in a classroom. A school district has described itself as deeply concerned. The sheriff is
disturbed by this. We will get into that after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:34:39] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FROST: You can get the program and start complying with this traffic stop or you are going to be taken to jail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FROST: You do not have your driver`s license on your person, correct?
GUILFORD: Yes, I do.
FROST: Where is it?
GUILFORD: You do not need to see it.
FROST: Do you realize that if you had complied with this traffic stop, it would have gone a whole different way for you?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FROST: Down on the ground! Now! Now!
GUILFORD: Oh my gosh! Stop Yelling at me.
FROST: Down on the ground! Right here, facing me. Down on the ground! Now!
GUILFORD: What do you mean?
FROST: Get on your belly. Right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: The police have gotten to the point to where they do not tolerate any sort of disrespect or failure to instantly comply.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Michigan teen shot openly killed by that police officer after a nighttime traffic stop escalated. The officer was cleared of wrongdoing,
but now Devn Guilford`s family is suing. Back with Sam, Mike, Crystal, AnneElise and Cheryl. And, Sam, the prosecutor and the family do not
exactly agree on the evidence.
SCHACHER: They -- No, they do not, because an investigation as you just stated by the prosecutor`s office determined that it was self-defense. OK?
And, they determined that because the bullet entered from the front and the body camera of the officer was damaged. Now, the family says --
PINSKY: So, meaning the kid was lunging at him?
SCHACHER: Yes. Now, the family says that the cops wounds appeared to have come from sharp objects and that their son did not have any jewelry on.
And, they also mentioned that it did not looked like that the officer had not washed his face before taking this footage.
PINSKY: AnneElise.
[21:40:00] GOETZ: You look at that footage, and it explains why the prosecutor is not bringing the case. That cop was beat up. And, just like
we were discussing, you cannot attack a cop and expect it to end well for you.
That is the end result. So, you think that you are being an unlawfully detained, you think you are being unlawfully arrested. Let us fight about
it in court. Do not fight the cop. And, that is what this guy did, and now he is gone.
SCHACHER: He is 17 --
PINSKY: But, hang on --
SCHACHER: Like this is a kid. This is like a kid.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: But, listen. Mike --
GOETZ: This is much of an adult can shoot a cop.
PINSKY: Look. When we had Fletcher from Pennywise gotten in with the cops?
CATHERWOOD: Yes.
PINSKY: Remember what happened with that?
CATHERWOOD: Yes! A guy -- LA County sheriff said he is going to cook his balls.
PINSKY: And was going to do it.
CATHERWOOD: And, he was going to do it. But, here is the thing. And, again, I do not want --
PINSKY: And, Fletcher was not lying.
CATHERWOOD: No one deserves to die when you are talking about a basic traffic stop. But, if this kid would have complied from the start, even if
he does not have his license, you go, "I am sorry, officer. I do not have my license on me." You end up maybe with a ticket. Maybe, you spend the
night in jail. Your parents yell at you. You are not getting shot. There were many layers between A and B and he took him there.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: You see a lot of contagious behavior out here. You see this on YouTube. You see that on YouTube. So, you go
out and do it.
GOETZ: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: And, then when you are doing that, you are putting the people`s lives in danger. The officer is not only paying
attention to you. He is paying attention to the cars behind him.
He is paying attention to who is in your vehicle. He is paying attention to a lot of things, you are being contentious and causing a problem, which
puts you at a serious danger, black, white, Hispanic, anybody.
PINSKY: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: You do not have to have your hands in any specific places where, you know --
PINSKY: Where they should not be.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes, where it becomes really difficult.
PINSKY: Crystal.
WRIGHT: You are exactly right, because guess what that we also know from news reports about this killing, is that Darren`s parents said he was
looking at those very videos on YouTube, a couple days before he was tragically killed by a police officer.
PINSKY: And, Crystal --
WRIGHT: But, wait, this is what bothering me --
PINSKY: This is going against -- Wait, wait. This is creating an environment where cops cannot do their job. And, you are --
WRIGHT: You are very wrong, because I think it is so funny that everybody is dancing around the obvious. The white elephant no pun in the room. This
kid was white, and he was 17 and unarmed. And, now, all of a sudden the way we are talking about the narrative is really like, "He should have
complied. He should have complied."
What we know now with unarmed black teens, the whole narrative, right, is that cops across the country are standing down when it comes to black young
man, who are engaging in criminal behavior --
PINSKY: So, how does that apply?
WRIGHT: So, I disagree with you. Cops are not -- it is not equal opportunity for cops. I mean I think now because of the -- and we did not
talk about the Michael Brown situation, the way we are talking about this young man, and it is because of color.
And, where is Obama? I mean, to me, this is very -- this is a gray area, where is Obama? Oh, because do white lives matter? Does this young man`s
life manner. Remember, President Obama jumped in with Trayvon and Michael Brown before we knew the facts.
PINSKY: Yes ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I think that at this point with all the extensive media coverage of black and otherwise, being engaged in --
being shot by police, I think there is a fear on behalf of the police of the public, there is a fear on behalf of the public, with the police.
And, that makes that simple traffic stop a much more difficult exchange. And like she said, "Yes, we do need to comply. But on the subject of a
person, Black Lives Matter tag I think that, that is a totally different subject. It does not make it correct that the police shoot anyone in this
particular situation. However, there is a different history with black people and police than there is --
PINSKY: Well. We are going to get into that tomorrow.
WRIGHT: She is right. Yes.
PINSKY: Crystal is going to come back tomorrow. And, what I am going to do tomorrow, I am going to fill the room with my black friends and
colleagues and we are going to get into this. And, Crystal, you are sharpening your knives for this?
WRIGHT: Well, you know, there might have been a different history when my parents were growing up in the segregated south with police and hosing
blacks and not letting them have their full civil rights.
Now, that is not the case. Young black -- The Trayvon Martin`s and Michael Browns of the world are an anomaly. And, if you in the district of the
Columbia, in the parts of L.A. and Chicago, I can tell you who is committing genocide in young black men other black men.
PINSKY: I want to get to Sergeant Dorsey. You are started having your reasonable mind, is it just that all of us need to just simply comply? We
are not going to get shot by a policemen if we just put our hand. He said, "Get on the ground. Put your face on the ground. Put your hands behind
you, and that is that. And, we will deal -- call AnneElise later.
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, what about -- OK. You can say that, but what about couple it with the responsibility of officers having additional and more
adequate training.
PINSKY: I am going to go and have AnneElise deal with that.
GOETZ: That is the thing, Sam.
SCHACHER: That is odd.
GOETZ: What happens Sam, is if they comply and they are over the top. If they are over the top and you comply, then we fight and we bring about
change in the courtroom.
SERGEANT DORSEY: Right. Exactly.
PINSKY: Yes.
GOETZ: Because this person has a gun, and you do not want to be the person that we are talking about on this show.
PINSKY: Sergeant Dorsey, settle this.
SERGEANT DORSEY: And, that is the situation that you will not win, and so it just makes sense. If you want to go home, if you want to survive that
police encounter, then you will not try to hold court curbside. That young man was antagonizing the situation. He asked and demanded to give me your
badge number.
[21:45:12] These are things that you do not have to telegraph, that you are going to maybe make a complaint or be feel some kind of way. He got
his badge number on. He has his nametag on. He has number on his cars.
There is all kinds of ways to identify an officer later if that is what you want to do. But, if you want to survive that encounter, because you do
not know who you just pulled out of that police grab bag, you need to do what he says so that you could go home.
PINSKY: Put your hands where they can be seen. Lie down, if they say lie down. I have some video of Joey Jackson from CNN, our legal analyst there.
I want to show you tomorrow -- so be sure to tune into this conversation tomorrow, where he just goes, "Comply, comply, comply. That is it."
Do not even ask questions, just comply. Then call Joey later, and everybody will go home in one piece, and that is that. See what he tells
his son, he will tell us that tomorrow.
Next up, I have shocking viral video of a school safety officer restraining a student. The incident is under investigation, right after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:50:26] PINSKY: Time for "Click Fix," where my guests tell me what is trending on their Twitter, Facebook and/or Instragram feeds. And, it is
Mike first.
CATHERWOOD: Yes. A Tennessee woman is America`as newest viral video star, after posting a video where she rants about the dos and don`ts of wearing
leggings. Check it out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMIE HIGDON RANDOLPH, TENNESSEE FEMALE YOUTUBE STAR: Some people like to use leggings as britches, as pants, pants. That ain`t how they are
supposed to be wore. I got thick legs, I got thick calves, I got a big old butt, and I got a big old gut. So, you got to conceal it. You wear your
longer shirt, like a tunic. Sometimes you can wear them with a little dress, that is fine.
Lord Jesus, white leggings, them is a big old no-no. You can see all kinds of stuff through them. If they are too tight, that I can see you got a
tattoo on your leg, they are too tight. They ain`t to be worn period. That is called panty hose, honey. Panty hose.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: There you go, Mike.
CATHERWOOD: Nearly 13 million views.
PINSKY: Wow! Good for her. All right, Sam, you are up.
(LAUGHING)
SCHACHER: OK. So, I have a feel good kitten rescue story.
PINSKY: Of course, you do. Did you cry?
SCHACHER: Of course I do -- I was just rooting for the cat, you will see. But, this cat has used up its first of nine lives.
PINSKY: Uh-huh.
SCHACHER: So, if you see in the tape, actually, a female motorcyclist was wearing a helmet cam. She stopped in the light when she saw the kitten
fall from a red car in the middle of the road.
PINSKY: No way, you are kidding.
SCHACHER: I am waiting for the tape.
PINSKY: There you go. There you go.
SCHACHER: So, she -- You will see a red truck. There is the cat. And, she is starting to wave on oncoming traffic to stop. She gets their
attention in the nick of time. She comes over there scoops up the baby kitten, and thank God hands it to a bystander then rushed back to retrieve
her bike. And, according to the woman`s post on Reddit, she has since adopted the kitten and its name is Skid.
WRIGHT Yey!
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
CATHERWOOD: You know what they say. It is the people who ride motorcycles who always get the pussy --
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
WRIGHT: You wish, Mike.
CATHERWOOD: But, the motorcycle --
PINSKY: Stop!
WRIGHT: Stop.
PINSKY: I got it. Crystal, let us get it back to you.
SCHACHER: Go, Crystal. Go.
WRIGHT: Can I censor him like this?
PINSKY: This is live television, that is the problem. Go ahead, Crystal.
WRIGHT: OK. So, this have to go from kitty to really sad stuff.
PINSKY: All right.
WRIGHT: So, we saw the clip earlier, we are going to run it again. Bt, apparently, this school police officer, that is assigned to a South
Carolina classroom goes in as you see, and he treats this --
SCHACHER: Oh, my God!
CATHERWOOD: Oh!
WRIGHT: Look at it -- he is treating her like a football or a basketball, right? Throwing her, and he said, "Let us go, you got to leave, because
she was disrupting the class." Is that the way you treat a student? That is police brutality --
SCHACHER: Yes.
WRIGHT: -- in my opinion.
SCHACHER: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: Yes.
SCHACHER: Oh, my God.
CATHERWOOD: That is a girl.
WRIGHT: Yes.
PINSKY: This deeply concerned. Good.
WRIGHT: So, anyway, according to law enforcement, the officer, I think, has been put on some kind of -- like leave or they are investigating it,
and as they should -- administrative duties, I am sorry.
But, I mean I do not know. One of your -- the many people in the audience said, it is like some police officers have gone rogue, and I agree with
what Cheryl said, though, we got to comply, you know and AnneElise. I mean, you know, the time to have the altercation is not when you are pulled
over.
PINSKY: It is in the courtroom later.
WRIGHT: Sadly.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: And, you do not know -- as Sergeant Dorsey said, you do not know what you are going to be up against in terms of the desire of that cop to
escalate --
WRIGHT: Neither does the cop, right? .
PINSKY: Everyone says, if you just comply -- it is not likely to end up in real -- a cop shoot you back of the head like execution. Has it ever been
documented? Ever, anywhere in the last three years? No. Come on.
WRIGHT: Well, some --
PINSKY: Come on.
WRIGHT: Well, we know some recent cases there has been questionable action by police officers.
PINSKY: Tomorrow we are going to go into great, great, great detail. Next up, that was -- yes, you are right, then they make movies about it in such
an incredible exception that, you know, we all are completely outraged by it.
WRIGHT: Agree. Yes.
PINSKY: All right. I am going to tell you my thoughts on Lamar Odom. People have been asking me a lot about it. TMZ grabbed me yesterday. Let
me clarify that after the break.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:54:38] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Lamar Odom is still in the news. I got nabbed by TMZ yesterday as I was trying to get out of the airport. And, some people have been asking
me a lot of questions about his condition.
There is a lot unknown. Appropriately, they are keeping very close to the best and what his actual medical condition is. Somebody reported today,
there have been some strokes. So, we still do not know what his neurological status is. Bottom line is he is going to be focused on his
medical recovery for some time.
Think about it, he was in an ICU. They probably had him appropriately on propofol and opioids, the things that delayed drug withdrawal that only
complicate his addictive process, the things that you got to do because of the seriousness and the complexity of his medical problems.
We are hearing he is in kidney failure, he is on dialysis. I believe he will recover from that. He may one day need a kidney replacement for that.
And, people have been cruel saying he should not get one, because if this was something he did to himself. Well, we should not treat people who fall
because -- I mean it is just insane. It is insane.
Should we never have treated him because -- Drug addicts have a medical problem. It creates medical complications. They need to be treated. Our
thoughts go out to him. This is really a tragedy.
Tomorrow night, we are having our conversation about race in America. It is a special. Join me and my audience and panel of African-Americans. I
want to thank you for being here for that. Thank you all for watching. I got a lot more to say about Khloe and Lamar. Perhaps, I will say that when
I am closing tomorrow. Just giving more details, but I will see you next time.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[22:00:00] (MUSIC PLAYING)
END
