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Dr. Drew
President of University Of Missouri Resigns; Cell Phone Video Captures School`s Security Guard Being Pummeled By A Student; 18-Year-Old Student Faces Assault; School Officer Confronts Student Over A Hall Pass And Now That Officer Faces Assault Charges; Two Twerking Women Wanted For Third Degree Sexual Assault. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired November 09, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:00:13] DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, a university president`s resignation is fueled by racism. Why did he step down instead of stepping
up? Plus, a school`s security guard is pummeled by a student. That people now faces charges, should he be allowed back in school, ever?
It all starts right now at the "Top of the Feed". Student protesters demanded that the president of the University of Missouri resign, he did.
Was that the right move? Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TIM WOLFE, UNIVERSITY OF MISSOURI SYSTEM PRESIDENT: I am resigning as president of the University of Missouri system.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (voice-over): Tim Wolfe is answering the call for change at the University of Missouri. He stepped down from his post as
president, amid heated racial tensions at Missouri`s main campus. Students insisted racism is real at their school and their leader was not doing
enough about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED AFRICAN-AMERICAN FEMALE SPEAKER: Look, this is what is happening on our campus. We do not know why you do not know, but we are
going to let you know. And, we do not know if you do not know, but you are adamant to listening. So, we are going to make you listen in this moment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (voice-over): Graduate student, Jonathan Butler started a hunger strike last week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JONATHAN BUTLER, UNIVERSITY OF MISSOURI GRADUATE: I am in this because it is that serious. We are dealing with humanity here. And, at this point,
we cannot afford to continue to work with individuals who just do not care for their constituents.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (voice-over): Nearly half of the Missouri Tigers Football Team fueled the cause by threatening to stay off the
practice field and protest. The team was prepared to boycott its next, a move which could have cost the school a million dollars.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WOLFE: We stopped listening to each other, and I take full responsibility for this frustration, and I take full responsibility for the inaction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joining me, Rolonda Watts, host of "Rolonda on Demand" Podcast; Leeann Tweeden, host of "LA Today" on AM 570 IHeartRadio; Mike Catherwood,
my "Love Line" and KABC radio co-host; Emily Compagno, Attorney, Legal Analyst and Erica Williams Simon, contributor at "Time" magazine.
The president quit. A chancellor will step down at the end of the year apparently. But, my question, Rolonda -- I saw you nodding when I said why
step down and not step up?
ROLONDA WATTS, HOST OF "ROLONDA ON DEMAND" PODCAST: I thought that was a brilliant move.
PINSKY: I thought that was on the radio today. And, I thought, I want my leaders to step up, not step down. But, I do not know if this guy had any
choice. He should have stepped up a lot sooner.
WATTS: Well, Dr. Drew, that is the point. I mean if he cannot handle the atmosphere that is there now because he did not do anything, then step
aside and let somebody handle it who can. I think this is a tremendous moment, right now in our race relations that a university is really
teaching everybody a lot of lessons.
And, maybe it had to hit at the football team, because that is where the money is. But the bottom line is, these young people stood up and said,
"We are sick and tired of it, it is not going to happen under our watch, not under our education, not under the sacredness of our educational
institution."
PINSKY: I am so -- Erica, I am so surprised that we are seeing this on a college campus. My kids just graduated college. I spent time, frankly,
tiptoeing around college campuses for fear of doing something politically incorrect. And, yet, here is a school that seems out of line with the
mainstream, and the football team had to step up and make the change.
ERICA WILLIAMS SIMON, CONTRIBUTOR, TIME MAGAZINE: Yes. I think what is so exciting about this is that, you know, we do not know how out of line they
are with other college and universities. All we know is that this is the university where the students were actually able to have an impact.
And, you know, let us respect their experiences that this is not just a result of things that have been happening over the past week or over the
past year, but they have been complaining about race relations on their campus for years.
PINSKY: Yes.
WILLIAMS: They call it systemic racism, systemic oppression. And, so, now, we are finally seeing what happens when students step up.
PINSKY: Emily, have you seen this list of demands?
EMILY COMPAGNO, ATTORNEY, LEGAL ANALYST: I have.
PINSKY: Do you think they are reasonable? They seem extensive, and they really almost taking over the hiring and firing of faculty and how they run
their curriculum. I am not so sure that, that is appropriate, or is it?
COMPAGNO: Well, I think the list of demands more importantly illustrates the positions that these students are operating from. So, whether or not
the actual individual demands are realistic or whether that is overstepping their bounds, I think it illustrates what they are feeling, which is
absolutely desperation and being victims systemic oppression for years.
So, for all of us to understand the depth of what they feel, then this list of demands would be a minor indicator of that. And, Jonathan Butler
preparing to die over this.
PINSKY: Leeann, maybe I can trust you to come up with a different point of view. So far, we are all kind of siding with the students. We are
thinking it is a good thing. I am very ambivalent about a president stepping down. You were like saying, when the president of the country or
something bad happens to the country, the president steps down. I mean, come on now.
LEEANN TWEEDEN, HOST OF "LA TODAY" ON AM 570 IHEARTRADIO: Right.
PINSKY: I do not like president steps down in the heat. That is when they step up.
TWEEDEN: I do not know that the firing -- I mean they wanted the firing, because I think somebody`s head had to roll. Right? --
PINSKY: Well, I guess.
TWEEDEN: -- They wanted somebody to step down. But --
PINSKY: It is not a business, though. I mean it is not like Ford -- you know, some company that has some misbehavior systemically in the
organization. --
TWEEDEN: No. Agree. I mean --
PINSKY: -- that administrators are responsible for. We are talking about students. The administrators are responsible for the faculty, not for the
students here.
[21:05:01] TWEEDEN: No. Right, I agree with you. I do not know what the firing of the president is going to do for the kids that are talking about
racism. To me, the kids -- the racist problems that have happened by other students on campus, that is their issue, right? To me it is not the
president did not make these kids racist, whether he did something or not. Obviously, he was not doing a lot or doing enough.
PINSKY: He did not do anything responsibly.
TWEEDEN: But, now that he is fired, are these things going to happen? Is there a list of what they want to happen? Are they going to affect change?
We do not know that. That is going to take a long time.
This is not going to happen overnight. We know that. My co-host on "L.A. Today," he went to the Missouri. And, he said that even ten years ago,
they had these problems. It has been going on for a long time.
PINSKY: I believe you have told me that earlier today.
TWEEDEN: Yes.
PINSKY: And, that really troubled me. Mike -- I am going to go to a student and see what she says about this very issue; but go ahead make a
comment.
MIKE CATHERWOOD, MY "LOVE LINE" AND KABC RADIO CO-HOST: Well, I mean, the fact that there has been reports of this going on at University of Missouri
for a long time, just goes to illustrate also, aside from racism, which, you know, is obviously a very serious issue, the sense of entitlement to
young kids nowadays in that -- they think that because there is maybe racial friction, now we are going to change the curriculum of this college.
TWEEDEN: Right.
CATHERWOOD: It just seems very strange. That have to be like telling your dietitian what you are going to eat, you know.
PINSKY: Right. Right. Right?
CATHERWOOF: That does not make you fat.
PINSKY: On the phone, I got Brenda Smith. I hope I will get her last name right. Lezama. Did I get your name right, Brenda?
BRENDA SMITH-LEZAMA, STUDENT BODY VP, UNIVERSITY OF MISSOURI: Yes.
PINSKY: OK.
SMITH-LEZAMA: It is Brenda Smith-Lezama.
PINSKY: OK.
SMITH-LEZAMA: Pretty close.
PINSKY: There you go. Brenda is a Student Body Vice President at University of Missouri. So, I do not know if you heard some of the
commentary here, we are all wondering, now what? President steps down, that is one of your demands, but you have got a lot more systemic issues
here. How are you going to solve those?
SMITH-LEZAMA: Absolutely. I think that one of the big parts of the narrative that is being left out is the fact that specifically at the
University of Missouri, we have had a very unique dynamic after Ferguson. We have what I like to call, a post-Ferguson Mizzou. Specifically, after
Ferguson, the activism on Mizzou campus ramped up to a level that I have never seen before.
PINSKY: And, Brenda, let me interpret you and say -- has that created a divide or more unity? In other words, has the student body unified around
this post-Ferguson phenomenon or has it created a split?
SMITH-LEZAMA: Well, I would say that it is definitely, it is definitely a little bit of both. There has been a huge, huge outpouring of support for
the black community specifically. But of course, there are a lot of students, who are not willing to learn quite yet.
Slowly but surely, there are a lot more people who are willing to open up their ears and listen, rather than speaking so much. And, I think that
that is one of the things we really have to work on here at the university.
PINSKY: There were two -- there were two demands, Erica, that I really liked that they put in here. One was to have the percentage of black
faculty sort of reflect the percentage of black Americans in Missouri, reasonable thing. And, to get more mental health professionals and more --
ERICA WILLIAMS SIMON, CONTRIBUTOR, TIME MAGAZINE: Amen.
PINSKY: -- And, mental health professionals, who are of color and culturally sensitive. To me it is like, "Really, you need to recommend
that to a school?"
SIMON: Exactly.
PINSKY: That stuff -- that seems like it should be the case, you know.
SIMON: Exactly. And, I think that is what we are forgetting in this conversation. Even to the point about entitlement, absolutely, they pay
for this education. And, that is the same attitude that has caused us to be able to have gender studies.
This is literally the exact same -- excuse me, type of protesting to cause gender studies, African-American studies on campus. This is a service that
they pay for, that they pay and the university is supposed to provide.
PINSKY: Any comment, Emily?
COMPAGNO: Yes, I agree with this. And, I just think that --
PINSKY: Let me stop you, because you -- we are going to talk about football next. And, you worked for football company at one point, yes?
COMPAGNO: I did.
PINSKY: Can you tell me what that was?
COMPAGNO: So, I worked for the NFL. I cheered for the Oakland Raiders.
CATHERWOOD: Oooooh.
PINSKY: And, so --
(LAUGHING)
COMPAGNO: Still Oakland Raiders. Yes.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Go Raiders. But, the reason I want to point that out is this football team had a massive effect on this conversation. And, Mike, when
we get back after break, I want to ask you whether that is a good thing or bad thing, a surprise, not a surprise.
I do not know. You know, in that the coach sided with the players against his own administration. I heard him saying, "I am like their dad, and I
feel like I have to go with my family." It is a very interesting situation.
TWEEDEN: I think he is caught in the situation.
WATTS: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: Your Hispanic viewership just went up like 90 percent.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: At least, locally here. All right. So, I will get to you after the break. Hold tight. Next conversation goes on.
Later, a cell phone video captures a high school student violently beating a security guard. Look at this. That is a high school student. Back
after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:09:31] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WOLFE: Please, please, use this resignation to heal, not to hate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARSHALL ALLEN, MEMBER OF THE "CONCERNED STUDENT 1950" MOVEMENT: The resignation of Tim Wolfe is a glimmer of hope for historically marginalized
students who voices have been silenced by patriarchal white male institutions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED AFRICAN-AMERICAN FEMALE STUDENT: It is really about just getting fairness. Not just about Tim Wolfe resigning, but it is about just
getting equal rights with different things on campus.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JONATHAN BUTLE, STUDENT WHO COMMITTED HUNGER STRIKE UNTIL PRES. TIM WOLFE`S RESIGNATION: After all the letters we have sent, all the in-person
interactions, after all the forums we have attended, after all the tweets and DM`s that we have sent, I am telling the administration about our pain,
it should not have taken this much. And, it is disgusting.
MAYOR BOB MCDAVID, COLUMBIA, MISSOURI: I think it is unrealistic to expect the problem to be solved today at this point. This is a conversation, as I
said before, we have a lot of work to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And, the leadership is changing at University of Missouri, but will it change that culture and change the racial tensions? I am back with
Rolonda, Leeann, Mike, Emily and Erica. And, Erica, before the break, I was asking about football and it is impact on this story. And, Emily, I am
sorry.
COMPAGNO: That is OK.
PINSKY: Too many Emily`s. -- And the fact is though, there was a young man, who we just saw there in the tape who had been on a hunger strike. He
was really already doing his will and testament. He had written that do not resuscitate order for himself. I mean it was serious, but remained a
local story until the football team got involved.
COMPAGNO: Right. And, that is what I am saying earlier that this demonstrates how monumental and how fundamental these issues are. So, we
know that there is the argument of, "Oh the football players should keep their head down, and you are just here to just play sports."
[21:15:00] But they are not, they are students too. And, that is their community and tha t is their culture. And, so, if they are using that as
the vehicle it is that can deny the college a million dollars, that is fantastic in my opinion.
Because they are using it as a platform that the pro-teams can too. All of the sudden everyone pays attention because sports are possibly paused.
That is an incredible use of that position.
PINSKY: Well, and Leeann, let me read to you, a tweet from our friend Crystal Wright. Do you remember Crystal Wright, Leeann?
TWEEDEN: Uh-Huh.
PINSKY: OK.
TWEEDEN: Yes, of course.
PINSKY: She said -- and she is, you know, not one to hold back. "Thirty black football players, who received full scholarships to play at Mizzou
should have been suspended for this boycott." Leanne.
TWEEDEN: Well, I mean, I can see her point of view, because they are being paid to play football. I mean, I get it. It is all a business --
PINSKY: Breach of contract per se.
TWEEDEN: It is a breach of contract. In the end, look, we talked about this -- That guy was on a hunger strike for almost a week. 48 hours into
the football players saying, "Hey, we are not going to play against BYU. We are going to strike, the majority of the players on the team." Then all
of the sudden, the school realized, "Hey, you know what? A lot of school football programs are their money-makers."
PINSKY: Not only that.
TWEEDEN: Million dollars.
PINSKY: It became a national story.
TWEEDEN: Right. It became a national story --
PINSKY: Oh my God!
WATTS: But, wait. Wait a minute. Did not we learn that through Rosa Parks that the way that you change this nation is in it`s pocket.
TWEEDEN: Well, of course.
WATTS: And, to shut it down. And, so --
TWEEDEN: But, the guy going on hunger strike kept it a local story.
WATTS: Sure.
TWEEDEN: If it was not for a field of a football players --
WATTS: But when a million dollars was up there --
TWEEDEN: That is exactly right.
WATTS: -- dangling in front of them --
TWEEDEN: That is exactly right.
WATTS: -- then all of the sudden the change. But the money --
SIMON: That is exactly the point. That is exactly the point that you cannot challenge these students and not respect them and still clap and
support and love the civil rights movement. They are using that exact same model.
TWEEDEN: Absolutely.
PINSKY: Let me go to Brenda and ask you if that is a source for frustration or pride for people on campus.
SMITH-LEZEMA: It is a little of both, in all honesty. Of course, we are so grateful that the football team stepped up and was able to bring this to
national attention. But, it honestly is so incredibly frustrating that it took getting to that point for this story to even get some people`s
attention.
We have been begging our administrators specifically since after Ferguson. We have been pleading with them in private meetings to change our
institution for the better. We have presented them a list of suggestions and concerns that all that we have been at with is complete silence.
PINSKY: Now, you said suggestions, Brenda. I have been told that these are minimum demands, this lists of eight criteria. They are pretty
intense.
(LAUGHING)
SMITH-LEZEMA: Right. Well, you are actually referring to a few different things. There has been three different lists of demands that have gone out
over the past year and a half. And, there have been several task forces that had been created, many of which I have sat with the vice chancellor to
provide suggestions to administrations.
PINSKY: Mike, you had a question or point you want to raise.
CATHERWOOD: Well, I -- I mean, obviously, I am very actually proud of the students because --
WATTS: I am too. I am too.
(APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Yes. Me too -- Well, just a bit.
CATHERWOOD: Listen. Peaceful and effective protest is one of the greatest American -- most iconic and powerful American tools out there.
TWEEDEN: Right.
CATHERWOOD: But, at the same time, I wonder if this is not representative of a movement to where someone has to pay.
PINSKY: What do you mean?
CATHERWOOD: And, you know, in the age of Twitter, in the age of --
PINSKY: You mean the mob? The mob? --
CATHERWOOD: Right. I mean -- And, my question being is someone stepping down really an effective way to deal with any of these problems?
PINSKY: OK. So, Brenda, Mike --
CATHERWOOD: Gender problems, racial tension --
PINSKY: Yes. You bring up an interesting point.
CATHERWOOD: You know.
PINSKY: So, Brenda, I will ask -- I hear what the students have to say about this. Mike brings up an interesting point, which is that in this day
of social media, no one is happening, until somebody -- until the blood is spilled.
CATHERWOOD: Yes.
TWEEDEN: And, they are rolling.
CATHERWOOD: Yes.
PINSKY: Yes, until somebody loses a job --
SMITH-LEZEMA: Here is the thing.
PINSKY: Go ahead.
SMITH-LEZEMA: Tim Wolfe did become somewhat of an icon of the system that have failed us. However, leading up to that point, we have come to Tim
Wolfe time and time and time again, our administrators for over a year and a half now pleading with them to do something.
And, it is not until their money is on the line, specifically with football in this case or the reputation is on the line with all the national media
attention that they choose to do something. So, in this case, I think it was incredibly necessary for Tim Wolfe to step down or resign in order for
us to be able to start a place of healing here at the university.
TWEEDEN: Brenda, moving forward, what is the first thing on your list? What is the most important thing to you would be the first step moving
forward?
SMITH-LEZEMA: Personally, as the student government, we have put in legislation to go through our joint session, seeing that marginalized
student governments will be included in the selection process for the next president and every president after that. That is one thing that has
always been left out of the equation, unless they has often had a stay, but marginalized student governments have not been lucky.
PINSKY: Now, the president, apparently, as Brenda is telling us ignored concerns. Here is what happened when they tried to block his car during
Mizzou`s homecoming parade. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE PROTESTER: In front of all -- we are the frontlines of the black culture center.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE PROSTESTER: Do not engage. Do not engage.
WOLFE: What are you talking about?
[21:20:00] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE PROTESTER: Do not engage on -- what are you doing -- do not engage. Do not engage. Five years ago. I say.
UNIDENTIFIED GROUP OF PROTESTER: Power.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE PROTESTER: I say.
UNIDENTIFIED GROUP OF PROTESTER: Power.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE PROTESTER: I say.
UNIDENTIFIED GROUP OF PROTESTER: Power.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Do not touch me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE PROTESTER: Do not engage them. Stay strong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Now, days later, President Wolfe said this, quote, "My behavior seemed like I did not care. That was not my intention. I was caught off
guard in that moment. Nonetheless, had I gotten out of the car to acknowledge the students and talk with them, perhaps we would not be where
we are today." It seems like Emily, a little bit of revisionist history. A nice spin on that, but still --
TWEEDEN: Right.
COMPAGNO: But, I also feel like that reflects the point that Brenda saying here, and everyone is saying here, which is his decisions and his actions
were too little too late, and if he acted promptly and stepped up from the beginning then we would not have come to the point where he needed to have
a rolling head. There would not need to be someone on the chopping log if he acted from the get go --
PINSKY: So, you are an attorney. What should he have done? Should have he done these eight demands, which are pretty -- I mean it is changing the
way a college functions. Just do them? Just say, "Kids want this, we got to do this?"
COMPAGNO: I think prior to receiving the list of demands, there were plenty of opportunities for him to act and engage and listen, most
importantly, to these students without just complying with the list of the demands at that point that it got that far. I mean Jonathan Butler did not
have to go on a hunger strike on his campus in America in 2015 to get a president to listen to him.
WATTS: Well, you know, Missouri, is the showy state. And, I say, "Come on. Come on."
PINSKY: Well, they are showing us.
WATTS: Show us. And guess what, we are all learning. Even the president as he stepped down said that he took full responsibility for this. And, I
cannot help but think that he is learning something as a human being also.
This university, they stand as a wonderful beacon of light for the rest of us. And, racism is the new modern day civil rights movement for these kids
today, whether it is on a college campus or in the streets, where they do not feel safe.
But, this is going to be -- I think as bad as it is, it is a wonderful opportunity to start dialogue as they did at the university in those
classrooms. And, for us, it is around the dinner table and here on Dr. Drew. It is opening up the dialogue.
We did not see violence to distract us from what is important here. And, it is that we sit down and we talk and we care about each other. And, what
has particularly happens on our college campuses.
PINSKY: Well, the one thing I would say is that it is nice to see it happened like you say without any violence. And, you have always schooled
me that just, do not be afraid. Let us just engage in this.
WATTS: Just talk.
PINSKY: Let us talk about this. And, most of what I saw on that campus was exactly that. So, I agree, I think it is a growing process. I do not
like people in leadership stepping down when the heat is on.
I think, at least give it a shot, guys. Just at least acknowledge you did something wrong and see if you can change it. And, if not, then you step
down just sort of -- I do not know, but I guess it has been --Again, too late, too little. An important conversation, as Rolonda said.
Next, an 18-year-old student faces assault charges for the brutal beating of a security guard. And, later, police need your help in capturing two
women. They are wanted for twerking. That is right. See, Mike, you put that call out, did not you?
TWEEDEN: Mike has his hand up.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[21:27:08] ERIN VECCHIO, PENN HILLS SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER-ELECT: What this child -- well, he is not a child. What this adult did to this security
guard is absolutely terrible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRENDA WATERS, KDKA-TV NEWS REPORTER: According to Penn Hills` police, the guard, approached Thrash, told him to get out of the hallway and go to
class. First, there was a verbal argument. Then things got physical.
The guard told police, Thrash, put his arms around his waist, lifted him up, and threw him to the floor. Thrash landed on top of him, punching the
guard seven to eight times above the face.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VECCHIO: This kid was just charged with a felony. And, the judge let him go on his own recognizant. Why did not you keep him in jail?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: An 18-year-old student violently punches a security guard. It is caught on tape. And, we have been covering use of force by resource
officers in schools, but the question that arises today, looking at tapes like that, is this kind of violence by the students what creates these
issues with the resource officers?
Is one effecting the other? Back with Rolonda, Leeann, Mike, Emily and joining Cheryl Dorsey, Sergeant LAPD retired, author of "The Creation of a
Manifesto: Black & Blue." Rolonda, I look at that and I go, "What are teachers supposed to do?"
WATTS: I know. That video still haunts me. I mean, what is happening in the world? When did -- when did we start beating up authority in school?
I do not know where that happens --
PINSKY: That is not just beating up, violently beating up.
WATTS: Violently beating up.
PINSKY: Yes.
WATTS: I just -- I do not know.
PINSKY: Emily, should get jail time?
COMPAGNO: Yes. And, this is what I was thinking when I saw that --
PINSKY: But they let him go.
COMPAGNO: They did, but you know he will be back. He was back in the hearing. He does not have an attorney. He is probably going to be
represented by a public defender. That aggravated assault. That is a felony. That is up to ten years in prison in that state. That is a huge
fine, et cetera.
The point is, is that I am looking at this, this is an 18-year-old, one could argue, a child or just a young man, who is being tried as an adult,
and he had these pathways in front of him. He was about to graduate, and then instead, he is going to enter the system. And, rightly so, because
that is an incredibly violent attack.
But the point is, is that what should have happened, is years before, I mean his executive functioning skills are not developed. He is a child in
school. And, this situation, that is not necessarily the one against the other, but it is the fact that we are used to seeing this violence in
school, whether it is blue on student or student on blue, I mean, this is a reflection of the entire system that is not putting resources in place to
train and educate them differently.
WATTS: Or is it the parents?
TWEEDEN: It is the parents.
WATTS: I cannot imagine going to school and whooping somebody in authority`s butt.
TWEEDEN: Because you know what, when I would go home, my dad would whip my butt.
WATTS: That is right.
TWEEDEN: That is where it all came down to me, because --
WATTS: And, your grandma.
TWEEDEN: Exactly right. And, to me, Dr. Drew, and I have always said this on this show, it always starts with the parents. It starts from a young
age. I have two young children now. I have a 7-week old at home. I have a 2-year-old. It all starts with communicating with them.
What you expect from them. How you expect them to be productive in society and to have good manners. All of these things, I would not be so worried
about -- I would have never thought --
PINSKY: Did you have two parents?
[21:30:00] TWEEDEN: Yes, of course.
PINSKY: Did you have a working mom?
TWEEDEN: Yes.
PINSKY: OK.
TWEEDEN: Both of them were working.
PINSKY: All right. Because, I am going to say, we come from privilege. You do not realize it, but that privilege affect how you able to parent.
TWEEDEN: Right, but there are still parents out there that are not even being good parents.
PINSKY: Well, but listen --
TWEEDEN: There are real parents out there that still want to do other things and still go out and party and not raise their children.
PINSKY: I wish -- I wish Danine Manette were here, because she would talk about how many people in the prison system had their ass kicked by their
parents. And, I have nothing more gratifying than seeing that kid get whipped by his parents. And, I will be, that is all I want something to
see .
TWEEDEN: Right.
PINSKY: But, I know, that makes things worse.
CATHERWOOD: Well, that is the thing is that, you look at a boy. I mean he is a kid. And, that level of and rage, I mean I think that, that is --
TWEEDNE: That is not an excuse, though.
CATHERWOOD: No. No. No. No. No. That is my point.
PINSKY: Where does it come from?
CATHERWOOD: Where does that come from? That is not --
TWEEDEN: Lack of parenting.
CATHERWOOD: That is not a "Hey, he was cheating on me with my girlfriend. Let us meet at 3:00, get in a fistfight." A lot of kids in a lot of high
schools all over this country are getting in fistfights and have done so and will continue to do so.
That level of rage that we were watching, where he throws the guy to the ground and continues to throw blows, and then wants more. There is
something brewing within him that is, you know --
WATTS: We still have a lot of time to think about it.
PINSKY: Well, let me get to the law enforcement representative here. Come on Cheryl. Help us out.
CHERYL DORSEY, SERGEANT LAPD (RET): This is a young man, who probably does not have consequences for his choices. He has clearly a lack of respect
for authority. And, my guess is, is that is probably extends to his home situation.
Because this is an officer, this is someone that is in uniform. And, when you act like that with someone in uniform, I would imagine that he probably
treats everyone that way. And, so, you do not get to do that to a police officer.
You do not get to fight a police officer and taken officer down. I promise you if that young man have come after me like that, bad things would have
happened to him.
PINSKY: I love Cheryl.
(LAUGHING)
TWEEDEN: Right.
SERGEANT DORSEY: That officer shows great restraint.
TWEEDEN: Can I say one thing.
WATTS: And, I believe it.
TWEEDEN: Can I just say one thing. Just for me personally --
PINSKY: Yes.
TWEEDEN: I just -- in my own mind, regulating myself as I was growing up, I just never wanted to disappoint my parents. So, I never would have acted
that way, just because it was instilled in me, and I always wanted to please them and do right --
PINSKY: But when parents --
TWEEDEN: -- and be a good students.
PINSKY: When parents violate or disappoint children, that is when they do not have those kinds of feelings --
CATHERWOOD: I got very used to disappointing my parents. You know, it is very easy.
PINSKY: Believe me, they got used to it too. They got used to it too.
(LAUGHING)
CATHERWOOD: For a numerous time, you just kind of get used to it.
PINSKY: Here is another story, this is a woman at a college in Chicago taken down by two officers, take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE OFFICER: Stop resisting! Stop resisting!
JACLYN PAZERA, FEMALE STUDENT WHO WAS TAKEN TDOWN BY TWO OFFICERS: I am not resisting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE OFFICER: Stop resisting. Comply with our demands. Stop resisting. Stand up. Stand up. Stand up.
PAZERA: I will.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE OFFICER: Stand up. Stand up. Stand up.
PAZERA: I will.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE OFFICER: Stop resisting. Stop resisting.
PAZERA: I am not resisting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE OFFICER: Stop resisting.
PAZERA: Get off me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE OFFICER: Stop resisting.
PAZERA: Get off me, you guys are hurting me. Please get off me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Apparently, minutes before this tape, the officers had given her verbal warnings, stop smoking or take it outside. They then followed her
into the classroom and that is where they arrested her for trespassing, even though she was a student there. So, Sergeant Dorsey, was that
appropriate use of force?
SERGEANT DORSEY: No, this was not appropriate. And, it was a lack of common sense and good judgment on the part of the officers. Evidence by
the fact that no charges were filed. And, so, I think had officers given her a moment or two, maybe had conversation with her. We are thought we
are never in a hurry. What is the circumstance?
PINSKY: Let me ask something. It seems like so many of these tapes we are watching is once the officers get to the point, where they have decided
they need to arrest this person or else -- I do not know, physically move them or affect their behavior with physicality. Any resistance is met with
a lot of force. Is not there an intermediate sort of --
SERGEANT DORSEY: Well, absolutely. There are things that should come before you start grabbing and tossing somebody around. And, so, we are not
seeing that continue when used. And, for me, Dr. Drew, this was punishment. This was I told you to do something, and you did not do it and
so now I am going to make you.
PINSKY: Yes. And, this is what we see this all the time.
CATHERWOOD: Yes.
PINSKY: This is where the line gets crossed.
CATHERWOOD: Just --
TWEEDEN: Right. And, to me -- sorry, Mike.
CATHEWOOD: Go ahead. No.
TWEEDEN: Just to me, every time I see these, I am like "Why do not you just do what the officer says." --
PINSKY: Well, I know.
TWEEDEN: And, then later if you are going to be exonerated, and you are going to be like -- that is going to happen. Because --
WATTS: But, she already put the cigarette out. She did what she is says, she is going back to class.
TWEEDEN: But, they said, Stand up" and she would not stand up. Just stand up. OK. Just do what they say for that moment. And, just, instead of
just trying to fight them all the time. They are the people of authority, and if you are going to be cleared, you are going to be cleared.
PINSKY: Emily.
TWEEDEN: I just do not understand why they fight it.
COMPAGNO: I hear what you are saying, but I feel like what I heard on that video is she was consistently using different words and different phrases
trying to say, "I cannot stand up, because you are standing on my leg or you have my other arm".
She called him sir at the very end. I felt like the police what I just heard was this road to repetition of the same phrase over and over again,
that to me indicated, "You have no training or no experience with engaging in de-escalation. They were the one that is escalating the situation, not
her.
PINSKY: Yes.
COMPAGNO: So, by the way, her lawsuit of excessive force is definitely going to be successful. And, especially, like you are saying, there were
no charges even filed against her. But that is what struck me about it, is that throughout the entire time, she actually was maintaining her calm. To
me --
[21:35:05] CATHERWOOD: Is there any chance that -- you know I did see on that video that, that woman had quite an ample tuchas and pupa, is there
any chance that she was, perhaps, stuck in the chair and that is what prevented her --
PINSKY: It is possible. They did not give her a chance to get out there. She was like sandbagged, let me get out. And, now, we are pulling you out.
SERGEANT DORSEY: And, you know, Dr. Drew, it is not uncommon for officers to say repetitively, "Stop resisting. Stop resisting. Give me your hand.
Do not hit me." Because, I know that officers play a game. They understand that there is an audio record. And, so you may not even be
resisting, but that is to justify this force that is coming.
PINSKY: They are building a case.
SERGEANT DORSEY: It really does not make sense to comply.
PINSKY: They are building a case. Joey Jackson, we were in New York. He sat on the stage. He goes, "I tell my kids, just comply. Whatever they
say, comply." He goes, "I will come later. I will prosecute those officers if they treated you inappropriately. In the meantime, just
comply."
TWEEDEN: Right.
PINSKY: That is the only way you get through situations like this.
Next, a school officer confronts a student over a hall pass. Now, that officer faces assault charges.
Later, police say two women are wanted for twerking. Yes, Mike wants them for twerking. That is actually wanted by the law, not just Mike. We have
details after the break.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[21:40:18] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (voice-over): Surveillance video captured 25-year veteran Master Sergeant Thomas Jaha confronting a 16-year-
old boy. According to documents, the student was supposed to be in an assembly.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: He asked him what he was doing. He ordered him to go back to class, and that did not happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (voice-over): The police report from Jaha shows the student told him, "F-you, whatever".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: The student then got into an aggressive stance and that is when the officer acted by striking the student.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (voice-over): A video shows the moments during the hit to the face.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: The officer did strike the student in the head. We believe twice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: A high school resource officer in Oklahoma, caught on that surveillance tape punching a 16-year-old student, back with my guest. I
have also got Sergeant Dorsey, and I want to ask her. The boy took up a fighting stance, is that enough to -- or did he have to take an aggressive
move first?
SERGEANT DORSEY: Listen, if sense was common, everybody would have it. OK. And, so just because he took a fighting stance does not mean you get
to tap him in the head.
PINSKY: I must say -- listen, you know how I champion not using physical violence the way of disciplining. Something very gratifying about the
security guy going "Really, that is what you think, here." But, I know it is not -- I mean, I wonder if that is the kind of mindset they get into,
where they take so much of this, they cannot handle it.
SERGEANT DORSEY: No. But, listen, if you do not have the right temperament, then you should not be in the school. And, if your
supervisors are not recognizing these red flags and getting you out and putting you on an assignment that is more suitable, then shame on them.
But, I promise you, this is not the first time that he has probably done that. And, so --
PINSKY: That officer?
SERGEANT DORSEY: That officer has probably done this before. And, so, you do not get to hit someone because they take a blade its stance, because he
looks aggressive or he looks mean. You do not get to hit someone. There are steps that come before that.
PINSKY: You are a professional too.
SERGEANT DORSEY: There are two types of resistance. There is aggressive and there is passive. And, so, unless that person is aggressive, you do
not get to get aggressive.
TWEEDEN: How do you handle it? How would you have handled it?
SERGEANT DORSEY: Well, first, you want to have a conversation. First, I am going to ask you to comply and I am going to threaten you. And, I am
going to make you think like I always say, "Bad things will happen if you do not come with me. I am going to get on my radio, because I am a girl.
I am going to get on my radio. I am going to call six or seven police officers. And, they are going to come over here."
PINSKY: Listen. You do not have to do that. You can say bad things could happen --
(LAUGHING)
SERGEANT DORSEY: "They are going to come over here and tie you up like a Christmas turkey. So, would not you rather go with me, right?" I get in
my bluff and I try to compel you.
But, at some point, I may have to put my hands on you, but there are things that I do before that. So, when I do put my hands on you, everybody is
good with it. I do not get to look at you. I do not like the way you look and sock you.
TWEEDEN: Right.
PINSKY: What is the legal read on this?
COMPAGNO: Right. Well, there is certain elements -- numerous steps and elements in between punching a child twice in the face, and having them
comply, which is restraint. I mean I am sure as an officer you have to be educated and absolutely trained in all of those defensive techniques, so
that you can subdue a 16-year-old child without punching them twice in the face.
PINSKY: But, you saw that violence we just witnessed at another high school.
TWEEDEN: Right.
PINSKY: That is what is in that -- potentially in that officer`s mind. He is thinking this kid could go off like that.
(CROSSTALK)
SERGEANT DORSEY: You cannot treat someone else based on what someone else may have done or did do. You have to deal with each person individually.
And, so, if this young man is not being that first young man, then you do not get to treat him that way.
PINSKY: Emily.
COMPAGNO: Right. And, just that -- this goes to the conversation earlier with the cycle of violence, like just because someone else might react in
such an aggressive fashion, there are elements in between so you do not have to.
PINSKY: Yes.
COMPANO: And, you can then be the change. Because, otherwise, this is going to be the one more cycle of violence we were talking about. Now,
that kid is going to know that every time he has an incident with a person in blue, that it is going to result in him getting punched twice in the
face. That is his message he learned.
CATHERWOOD: Well, I wonder and who I am to argue with an attorney and a police officer for a long time, and I agree with everything they are
saying. But, at the same time, where is this -- where are the youth of America getting compelled to even talk back to law enforcement officers?
TWEEDEN: Right.
CATHERWOOD: Now, it does seem like there is an immediate sense of -- I do not to want go back to the sense of entitlement, but it does seem like
there is this kind of, YouTube attorney culture, where they feel like they understand their rights, and they have a complete lack of understanding of
what actual law enforcement is. And, I mean Lord knows --
TWEEDEN: Lack of respect.
(CROSSTALK)
WATTS: And, there is problems --
CATHERWOOD: I would not, in any way, schooled on how to properly behave and how to treat authority, by no means, but I definitely was scared. I
did not want to prolong it. The last thing I want to do with a cop who is messing with me, probably when I was high, if I was wandering around high
school baked out of my mind, I would not want to go like this. I would be like, "Oh, yes, whatever you say officer." So, I could get the hell out of
there.
PINSKY: Rolonda, you were saying?
WATTS: Now, I was just saying that I am with you. I do not know where the disconnect happened.
PINSKY: Well, it is a weird, like there is no social contract anymore.
WATTS: Right.
PINSKY: It is like the idea of authority is something anachronistic, like "What, authority? What is that? What is that of you speak? I am the
authority. I saw it on YouTube."
CATHERWOOD: Right.
COMPAGNO: I also feel like the consequences now are becoming so systemic, that again we are being normalized and we are not caring as much. So, many
people are incarcerated. It is now maybe even a badge of honor and everyone does it.
[21:45:06] And, so, the government steps in and you are charged with this, and here you are going to jail. And, this and this and this, and it is
everyone`s getting numb to it. And, so are the kids because they are growing up with older siblings and parents in the system as well.
CATHERWOOD: Yes.
WATTS: I think they are also hearing from those older siblings and parents that the cops are this and authority is that, and that only instills --
PINSKY: You are right. And, they are being schooled in the prisons. These are criminal schools, these prisons very often. Listen, the idea of
the cycle of violence that Emily mentioned is really what is at issue here.
It does not -- although it is deeply gratifying to see a kid get his just desserts, that is the problem. That is where this comes from and that is
what perpetuates it. Next up, two twerking women wanted, Mike, wanted I tell you for third degree --
CATHERWOOD: On my lap.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: -- for third degree sexual assault. Sexual assault by twerking women. We will be right back.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:50:14] PINSKY: Time for "Click Fix", where my guests tell me what is trending on Twitter, Facebook and/or Instagram feeds. And, Rolonda is
first.
WATTS: You got it. Now, Mike, you may enjoy this.
CATHERWOOD: May?
WATTS: May.
PINSKY: I have been talking about it for 20 minutes. He has been waiting for this.
WATTS: And, a whole bunch of other guys out there may enjoy this. But, this guy did not like it too much. What you are looking at is a couple of
ladies at a counter at a D.C. convenient store. This happened on a Wednesday around 4:00 in the afternoon. I guess they might have called it
hump day as you see.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: So, she does not know that guy?
WATTS: She takes a swig from the bottle. They do not know this guy, twerking up against him. Immediately her friend goes over. They start
reaching for his crotch. Hanging on him. She even tries to kiss him. Interrupt his phone call.
(LAUGHING)
I hope his wife was not on the phone. Maybe he was calling the popo, who knows? But, anyway, she is trying to kiss him, messing with him. The D.C.
Police, folks, are looking for these women.
PINSKY: No!
WATTS: They are asking for help.
PINSKY: Was he pressing charges?
WATTS: Pressing charges. Facing third degree sexual charges.
PINSKY: He was talking to his wife.
(LAUGHING)
WATTS: She pressed the charges.
CATHERWOOD: Well, I mean he did not do -- obviously, when you look at the video, he was a perfect gentleman, but why press charges?
WATTS: Mike, if any man pushed up on me like that, he would be pressed with some charges.
TWEEDEN: That is true.
PINSKY: Mike, if somebody --
TWEEDEN: Very true.
PINSKY: If Leeann pressed up on you or Rolonda pressed up on you, what would happen?
TWEEDEN: If Leeann did it, are you kidding me? My head would blow right off my neck.
PINSKY: Listen.
WATTS: Hey, what am I, chopped liver?
PINSKY: I know. Rolonda, come on now!
CATHERWOOD: Rolonda, he just offered her up.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Rolonda, you are doing great.
WATTS: I got you, boo.
CATHERWOOD: If you guys, double team on me, we have a problem. We need to get the flood gates out.
PINSKY: Listen, I have a great tweet on this one. It is from @waviator: "I cannot believe Dr. Drew just featured a video of two women being wanted
for twerking in a liquor store, meanwhile, in Syria. Touche."
(LAUGHING)
TWEEDEN: So true.
PINSKY: Leeann, go ahead.
TWEEDEN: With my story?
PINSKY: Yes.
TWEEDEN: Yes. All right. So, we all love Starbucks, and forget about the red cups now. Starbucks in St. Augustine, Florida, is now using -- they
have a big deaf community in St. Augustine, Florida. They now have a drive thru with baristas who actually sign.
PINSKY: Oh, nice.
TWEEDEN: So, a woman was so excited. And, you will see the video here. She went through once, but then she came back and filmed it again because
she was so excited that she could go through the drive thru, and you see the video there and she was signing her order, and a person there actually
was a sign language person, who could sign.
And, so she is very excited. She posted it on Facebook. And, she said look, please, everybody put it out there. We love you, Starbucks. I think
it is -- it is fantastic, you know.
CATHERWOOD: Wonderful.
TWEEDEN: I mean Starbucks is smart. They are all about making money and in a community where there is a lot of deaf students around. There is a
school down there. A deaf school, and they actually employ four baristas who signs, so now people can go through the drive thru.
PINSKY: This is fantastic and especially for the driving part. One thing, if it is walk -- But you are driving through. I mean you can communicate -
-
TWEEDEN: Exactly. Hey, and you get it faster, and that is exactly right.
PINSKY: And, they make more money.
TWEEDEN: That is right.
PINSKY: Mike, what is up?
CATHERWOOD: This is not so uplifting a story. DUI driver hits this one, 61-year-old woman, leaving Sam`s club in Provo, Utah. Not Walmart for once
with a young --
TWEEDEN: Oh my God.
CATHERWOOD: Look at that.
PINSKY: The child is flying through the parking lot.
WATTS: It is rolling on the lawn.
CATHERWOOD: Keeps on going. A lot of bystanders come over to help her, not realizing that the child is still in the shopping cart.
PINSKY: The driver is unconscious or something, right?
CATHERWOOD: A 66-year-old driver, arrested for driving under the influence without insurance and with revoked registration.
WATTS: Oh God!
CATHERWOOD: After hitting the victim, he got out to check for damage on his car, and then tried to drive off.
PINSKY: Oh, no, no.
TWEEDEN: Oh my God.
CATHERWOOD: But, luckily, and this is the uplifting part. Other shoppers gathered around and kept him there until the police arrived.
TWEEDEN: Of course.
WATTS: That is right.
TWEEDEM: Citizen`s arrest.
CATHERWOOD: You do not drink and drive.
TWEEDEN: Lord.
CATHERWOOD: Especially in the day and age of Uber and Lyft. But, really, just do not --
PINSKY: It is funny you should say that, because we are going to do the Uber story again, next. There is a follow up on that with the Uber
passenger who beat the guy up. I mean the Uber driver was not the one drinking, the Uber passenger is the one drinking.
CATHERWOOD: Yes.
TWEEDEN: Right.
PINSKY: Hang on, everybody. Yes. So, this Uber driver, finally the one that is attacked, you are going to hear from him and can also hear from the
passenger. We will get feedback and some follow up on that when we get back.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:54:31] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: All right, my "Click Fix" is an update on the former Taco Bell Executive, who is caught on camera brutally assaulting his Uber driver.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJAMIN GOLDEN, TACO BELL MARKETING EXECUTIVE WHO BEATEN AN UBER DRIVER: It is not me in the video. You know, it is not me. And, it was hard to
watch. And, I am ashamed. It has been overwhelming. And, at the end of the day, I messed up. I crossed a line, right?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So, Mike, I would say there is two possibilities. One, alcoholic and a blackout, in which case, still him, or two, liar.
(LAUGHING)
CATHERWOOD: Well, those are two possibilities.
PINSKY: You think liar?
CATHERWOOD: Yes. That guy is so, that orange county bro, works for Taco Bell. You could tell, he got a little muscle on him. He has hat
backwards. He was going home alone from the bars --
TWEEDEN: Angry.
CATHERWOOD: Frustrated about it --
PINSKY: Cannot confirm whatever Mike is saying. This is Mike Catherwood`s opinion.
CATHEWOOD: And, he hits like a bitch. He hits that guy totally like unmolested guy -- like five shots in, the guy was still able to go and grab
his pepper spray. Good for that Uber driver.
PINSKY: All right. Reminder -- and listen, if this guy is alcoholism too, I feel bad for him and you should too. The guy needs treatment for that.
It probably was a blackout. Let us get that guy properly treated.
TWEEDEN: But, right that he lost his job, too.
PINSKY: Yes.
WATTS: Yes.
PINSKY: We are on SnapChat, join us there @DrDrewHLN. Of course we would like for you to DVR this program. You can watch us anytime. Please be a
part of this audience. You can sign up for tickets online. You can call us. And, thanks for watching, thank you, panel. Good job.
WATTS: Thank you, boo.
PINSKY: Thank you, boo. We will see you next time.
(LAUGHING)
TWEEDEN: Love you, boo.
[22:00:00] (MUSIC PLAYING)
END
