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Dr. Drew
University Professor Targeted by Police; Students Come to Blows with Police Officers; Social Media Star Deletes Her Accounts. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired November 12, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:03] DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, walking while black. We`re at that again. Yes, a university professor was, she targeted by a police
because of her race, plus cops under attack by students, we have two new videos. It all begins right now at the "Top of the Feed."
Dorothy Bland, a black university dean, was stopped in her affluent Dallas suburb by two white officers, broad daylight, middle of the day. She was
just taking a walk. Police say, it was for her safety, but days later in the Dallas morning news op-ed, she claimed racial -- racial profiling. The
police then responded by releasing the dash cam video you`ll be the judge. Here is part of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are police (ph) officers, and we want to talk to you real quick.
DOROTHY BLAND, BLACK UNIVERSITY DEAN: Sit here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. The reason why we are coming up here to talk to you is, when you are walking up this way.
BLAND: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: . make sure you walk on this side of the road.
BLAND: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Because there -- I do not know if you did not notice there was a truck that pretty much had to go to a stop because -- we
understand you are working out and stuff.
BLAND: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But just to make sure you`re on this side, that way -- that -- because yet you`re impeding traffic, for one, and two, it is a
safety issue. We don`t want you to get hit.
BLAND: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, if somebody is not -- because you could see people coming this way.
BLAND: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: . and you can jump out of the way.
BLAND: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know what I`m saying?
BLAND: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But if you are on this side, people come -- someone can come back and hit you and not even see you, and you will not know what hit
you. You know, what I am saying?
BLAND: Yes. OK. I appreciate it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, not a problem. Do you have your ID on you real quick, back to us (ph).
BLAND: No. I don`t have my I.D. on me, but.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You do not?
BLAND: . if you want to verify, I`m the property owner at (BEEP). The provost for UNT lives just down the street here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
BLAND: He can verify that I live in this neighborhood.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. No, that`s fine.
(LAUGHTER)
BLAND: I`m so like amazed. I get stopped for walking!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
BLAND: And do you know how many times I walk down the street every day?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, that`s fine, that`s fine. We`re just -- we`re just concerned for your safety.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DREW: Joining me, Heather Dubrow, cast member "Real Housewives of Orange County." Two new special will air in November 12 at 9:00 p.m. and -- on
Bravo.
Also, shows a new podcast, Areva Martin, Attorney and Legal Consultant; Segun Oduolowu, Entertainment Journalist; AnneElise Goetz, Attorney, host
of the podcast, "Your Life and the Law". On Skype, I`ve got John Cardillo, WJNO Radio host, former NYPD Officer.
(APPLAUSE)
Areva, here we are now, right?
(APPLAUSE)
I`m not -- is it much to do about nothing? Are we making too much of these things? Is she too sensitive? The police never heard from Ms. Bland, so
they then released the -- the video because they thought she was trying to turn this into a racial profiling thing that had nothing to with it.
AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY AND LEGAL CONSULTANT: Well, I don`t think we can say she is too sensitive. We weren`t in her situation. We haven`t walked into
her shoes.
PINSKY: Areva, come on now.
MARTIN: No. I think you have to take what she said. This is an educated woman.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: We are watching it. Yes, she is lovely.
MARTIN: We`re watching it.
PINSKY: We`re watching it.
MARTIN: You`re watching it, but you have to watch it in the context of everything that`s been played out in the media with respect to African-
Americans and the police.
(CROSSTALK)
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, ENTERTAINMENT JOURNALIST: Areva. Areva. Areva.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Now, are African-Americans hypersensitive?
ODUOLOWU: Areva.
MARTIN: I think they are.
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: Areva. I walk every.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: I think people
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: I walk every day.
MARTIN: . are sensitive about this issue.
ODUOLOWU: . we walk every day.
MARTIN: . and we have to respect her thinking about it.
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: . while black. That`s out of foolishness.
PINSKY: This was?
MARTIN: No. I do not think so.
ODUOLOWU: It is out of foolishness.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: I do not think so.
ODUOLOWU: This is out of foolishness. She`s walking in the middle of the street and the first thing they say when they approach her is it is a
safety issue. Now, if they stopped her on the sidewalk, I`m -- I`m right there marching, protesting.
MARTIN: So, why ask her for her I.D. if it is a safety issue?
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: Again, hold on.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Why don`t they just direct her to the sidewalk?
(APPLAUSE)
ODUOLOWU: I do not know -- I don`t know. I don`t know if asking for ID is protocol, but I do know you don`t walk in the middle of the street. I don`t
care what, who you are.
MARTIN: Why would it be protocol to know where you live if the only purpose they have was to get her out of the middle of the street, which is what you
think it is.
ODUOLOWU: The last question was, "Do you have your ID on you?"
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: When I hear them asking for the ID, I`m thinking they want to know, do you belong in this neighborhood? They want to check.
(APPLAUSE)
PINSKY: No. No. No.
ODUOLOWU: So, do you think it was subterfuge?
PINSKY: Hang on. Hang on. Guys, hold on.
MARTIN: No?
ODUOLOWU: You think that they ask.
MARTIN: Why would they ask her for ID?
ODUOLOWU: .it without safety.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Guys, over here.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Now, why did they do?
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: Why would you walk (ph) to the street?
PINSKY: Heather, your thoughts?
HEATHER DUBROW, MEMBER OF "REAL HOUSEWIVES OF ORANGE COUNTY": Well, I mean, I think I can understand why she is annoyed. I mean let`s be honest, she`s
going on her morning walk. She does this every morning. She is being pulled over.
PINSKY: Have you ever been stopped while walking?
DUBROW: No. And thought that sounds.
PINSKY: You are a white woman in Orange County.
DUBROW: No.
PINSKY: Do the police -- have you.
DUBROW: No one is stopping me.
PINSKY: . have you -- have you ever -- had anybody -- has anybody -- have you been stopped by traffic cops because of a traffic violation?
DUBROW: Absolutely.
PINSKY: What happens?
DUBROW: Not in a very long time, honey.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: What -- and, what happened? What was the first thing they ask for?
DUBROW: They ask for ID. To me.
PINSKY: Do you object to that?
DUBROW: . absolutely not. To me.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Do they have a right to your ID?
(CROSSTALK)
DUBROW: . when the police come up to you, I don`t care what color, you keep your hands in clear eyesight and you give them whatever they want. I think
that they were very, very respectful. They were looking for her safety first and asking for her ID, I believe, is just protocol. And, I thought
they were completely nice and -- and charming the whole time.
MARTIN: No.
PINSKY: Here`s the audience (ph) to say no?
MARTIN: No. It is not protocol in your neighborhood. That`s what she is saying. As an African-American woman, why are you asking me for my ID if
it`s only about my safety? And, I don`t think we can dismiss so easily how African-Americans feel in their encounters.
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: It is not about the feeling.
MARTIN: . with the police.
DUBROW: But then, it`s.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: No and absolutely.
(CROSSTALK)
DUBROW: . not the point.
MARTIN: . you can`t dismiss those realities.
(CROSSTALK)
DUBROW: All right. So wait a minute
MARTIN: . about how we experience with the police.
DUBROW: OK. I hear that and I can`t speak to that kind of experience, but what I will say is this, at what point are we going to have to say that
you, can only be spoken to or pulled over if you`re African-American by another African-American? Or is it every.
(Crosstalk)
MARTIN: No. That is not the issue.
DUBROW: . does every cop (ph) could have one Caucasian.
[21:05:00] ODUOLOWU: No, that`s the safety.
DUBROW: . and one African-American, so that everything is OK?
ODUOLOWU: That -- that`s taking it a bit far. It`s not that you can only be -- be pulled over by one African-American or whatever. The asking for ID, I
think, is a hypersensitive issue. I would like to know.
PINSKY: Right.
ODUOLOWU: . if it`s protocol. If it`s not protocol, I`m with you, that`s - - that`s too far, but walking in the middle of the street, and the reason that they initially approached her, that`s valid.
PINSKY: Segun, hold on.
ODUOLOWU: That`s valid.
(APPLAUSE)
PINSKY: I want to -- I want to talk to John Cardillo and ask him that`s a basic simple question. John, when a cop pulls somebody over -- essentially
a traffic violation, we`re talking about here or safety issue, don`t they have to document who they`re talking to what they required to look at
someone`s ID?
JOHN CARDILLO, WJNO RADIO HOST AND FORMER NYPD OFFICER: Well, yes, and in this case, it is protocol because if God forbid, she were hit by a car
later on, those police officers would want to know if that we spoke to her. We advised her of the safety issue. She disregarded it and, "Hey, we are
covered."
PINSKY: You wait, wait.
(CROSSTALK)
CARDILLO: And, that was really what that was about.
PINSKY: I want to get to the audience. Yes, ma`am, go right ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If she`s educated, she should know better than walking in the middle of the street. If you`re over the age.
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: No. No.
(APPLAUSE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: . of 18.
PINSKY: I do that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you believe, you should be carrying an ID with you.
PINSKY: No. No, wait a minute.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: . because this is a safety issue.
DUBROW: I don`t carry an ID if I go for a walk.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And, in some states, it is against the law to be walking if you are over the age of 18 with no ID. It`s not a racial thing
or anything like that. She was -- she absolutely does not have an obligation.
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: Bless you, my sister.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: . to carry identification.
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: Thank you, my sister.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Yes, we`re not in the -- right, to be in her neighborhood.
PINSKY: It`s done.
MARTIN: . she was on her morning walk. She has an absolute right to do that. And, they had a right to ask her to move to the side of the street if
they wanted to.
PINSKY: Yes.
MARTIN: I`m not disputing that. They asked her for her identification, she said in her op-ed piece, that she felt like she was racially profiled. We
can`t dismiss her feelings about that. So, I think.
PINSKY: OK. Let`s do it -- wait, wait, everybody. Let`s look at more of the dash cam video. OK? Just we can really -- let`s -- let`s be objective. We
can`t be in her shoes, but we can look at the -- the facts, the evidence as it plays out. This is from the end of the encounter. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLAND: I usually walk at 5:00 in the morning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
BLAND: It rained, so today, I`m walking at 11:00.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You did not want to walk in the rain?
BLAND: No. I decided that would not be smart today.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, yes, yes, you`re right. Some people do.
BLAND: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My dog doesn`t like the rain.
BLAND: Yes. I`m -- I`m a perfectly law-abiding citizen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.
BLAND: And, I pay lots of taxes, too, by the way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. OK.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t -- I don`t -- I`m not really understanding where the problem was here. Wait a minute.
BLAND: I`m like jogging. I got flashing lights and everything from walking in my neighborhood.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, he was just trying to get your picture.
BLAND: Well, you got it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, ma`am. Thank you.
BLAND: OK. Bye.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very good, ma`am.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Now, in her Op-Ed, she writes, "Ouch" after quoting the officers` statement about his dog not liking the rain as though that was some sort of
this on her. But, go ahead, Heather.
DUBROW: He was just making a connection with her.
PINSKY: Yes.
DUBROW: I think he was just being completely nice. I mean, to me, the thing is she -- walking in the middle of road is sort of erratic behavior. So,
what I would say.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: How is that erratic behavior?
DUBROW: . no. It is -- because normal people..
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: I`m proud (ph) of here.
(CROSSTALK)
DUBROW: . do not walk in the middle of the road.
PINSKY: In the rain.
DUBROW: . when a car -- in the rain, when a car is almost hitting them. My feeling is this, if you`re in the neighborhood, and they see and you are
behaving a little erratically, they ask you because what would happen if some -- I`m just saying...
ODUOLOWU: She`s acting erratic.
DUBROW: . what if something did happen with this woman later?
ODUOLOWU: I`m with -- I`m with you right there, Heather.
DUBROW: And -- and they -- and they did not.
ODUOLOWU: I believe in that.
DUBROW: . write her name down.
ODUOLOWU: I did -- listen.
DUBROW: . and they knew that they pulled her over.
ODUOLOWU: John pointed that out.
DUBROW: "Oh, we pulled someone over, but we don`t know her name."
ODUOLOWU: John pointed that out. If -- if -- if something, God forbid, had happened to her, and she did not have her ID, and it came back and the cops
had broken protocol or did not know who she was, absolutely, fine. I`m no lover of cops and their treatment of black people but walking in the middle
of the street isn`t erratic, but it is not safe.
PINSKY: OK.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: It is not erratic.
PINSKY: Hang on. Areva.
ODOULOWU: It`s not safe.
PINSKY: . I know how you feel.
DUBROW: It`s not usual and customary.
PINSKY: Hang on. And, AnneElise, last thought here. Anything else to add from a legal perspective here?
ANNEELISE GOETZ, ATTORNEY AND LEGAL ANALYST: From a legal perspective, I think, unfortunately, it`s a little unclear in Texas whether they had the
right to ask her for the ID or not. Hence there.
PINSKY: Based on Texas law.
GOETZ: . based on Texas law, and that`s why I think that there is -- she`s probably upset because it`s definitely unclear, and she could take that as
a lot more than just pulling over for her safety.
PINSKY: All right.
GOETZ: It looks like more.
PINSKY: OK. Well, let`s keep this conversation going. Later on, I`ve got students attacking police at schools. We have two new videos. We got our
"Click Fix." We got much more after this.
[21:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are police officers, and we want to talk to you real quick.
BLAND: Sit here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. The reason why we are coming up here to talk to you is, when you are walking up this way.
BLAND: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: . make sure you walk on this side of the road.
BLAND: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Because there -- I do not know if you did not notice there was a truck that pretty much had to go to a stop because -- we
understand you are working out and stuff.
BLAND: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But just to make sure you`re on this side, that way -- that -- because yet you`re impeding traffic, for one, and two, it is a
safety issue. We don`t want you to get hit.
BLAND: OK. I appreciate it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So. Not a problem. Do you have your ID on you real quick, back to us (ph).
BLAND: No. I don`t have my ID on me, but.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You do not?
BLAND: . if you want to verify, I`m the property owner at (BEEP). The provost for UNT lives just down the street here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
BLAND: He can verify that I live in this neighborhood.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. No, that`s fine.
(LAUGHTER)
BLAND: I`m so like amazed. I get stopped for walking!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don you mind get your name and date of birth real quick? I want -- just make sure I`m putting with the call?
BLAND: Sure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, it was.
BLAND: I mean, if I`m going to get stopped, again, I would certainly want it on record.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s right.
BLAND: And I will make a note, too. Can I get a picture of you two officers?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure.
BLAND: That way I can say I was stopped.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re taking me to call or.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, that is fine.
BLAND: While walking.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s your date of birth?
BLAND: My date of birth is April 7, 1958.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That is a black university professor stopped by two white officers while walking in her own neighborhood. I`m back with Heather, Areva, Segun,
AnneElise, John and joining us, Jasmyne Cannick, political and social commentator.
That video has been viewed almost 800,000 times on YouTube. It has generated a lot of commentary. Ms. Bland says, quote, "My column simply
reflects my perspective and experience." I want to get Jasmyne into this conversation. You were watching the video, where do you come down to this?
JASMYNE CANNICK, POLITICAL AND SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: I think that whole conversation should have ended after he said what they have to say about
getting on the sidewalk. That point where he started to ask her for ID.
(APPLAUSE)
This is America. We can walk anywhere we want to walk. We can go anywhere we want to go. That`s what makes this country so great.
[21:14:54] I`ve experienced what Ms. Bland experienced. I experienced that in Madison, Wisconsin when I was there as a guest lecturer at a university.
I was followed by two officers for quite some time, so I finally turned around and asked them what they wanted, nd they just say, "Oh, you fit the
suspect -- this description of a fraud suspect," and my host had to actually come and explain to this officers that I was just visiting in
town.
My hotel room card did not do it, even my California ID did not do it. So, I understand exactly how she feels and that conversation should have just
ended after they said, "Get on the sidewalk." She said, "OK." All that asking for ID, he did not ask for the ID of the truck driver who pointed
her out, because that was the beginning of the story, that a truck driver put his hands up and said, "Why aren`t you going to do something?"
Well, did they ask the truck driver, "Let me have your ID?" Why are they asking for her ID?
ODUOLOWU: She is walking in the middle of the street.
DUBROW: Hey - right. It`s about getting walk (ph).
ODUOLOWU: Right. Hold on. A truck driver driving the car is doing, actually, what he is supposed to do and flag cops down and said, "I noticed
someone walking in the street."
PINSKY: Dangerous.
ODUOLOWU: What we are doing right now -- and again, what we`re doing as black people, right now, is putting extras. We`re making a mountain out of
this mole hill. If they were disrespectful, I am with all of you, but they asked her for her ID, and I hate to agree with John, but if something had
happened to her -- if something had happened to her and they asked were you stopped but -- did the police get involved and they had no name and no date
of birth.
And that`s what they were doing for. They didn`t ask for where do you live? They just ask for her ID. I`m with you.
MARTIN: OK. If that`s your.
ODUOLOWU: . on police -- because she`s has taken.
MARTIN: . opinion.
ODUOLOWU: . this too far.
MARTIN: I don`t think.
ODUOLOWU: . and putting extras on it.
MARTIN: . they were disrespectful, but I also don`t think that they needed her ID and where she lived and her name and date of birth.
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: They did not ask where she lives.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: I know a million people who walk..
ODUOLOWU: That`s ID.
MARTIN: . every morning in the middle of the streets in America.
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: She said where she lived.
DUBROW: And I totally really. PINSKY: One at a time.
DUBROW: . understand what the protocol is there. It`s hard to say because if the protocol is in that area that when you stop someone whether it`s
walking or driving, that you are required to ask for that information.
PINSKY: Well, Areva has that.
MARTIN: Well -- well, the issue is.
PINSKY: You know that law, right?
MARTIN: . it`s not the protocol. The issue is the law, Heather, and what we know about Texas law is that someone is not required to give their
identification unless they are under arrest. She is not under arrest.
(APPLAUSE)
She had no legal obligation, and we can`t talk about protocol because what we know in this country.
PINSKY: Wait, wait, Areva. Not the law.
DUBROW: Even if there is a suspicion?
MARTIN: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
DUBROW: They -- they don`t ask for ID.
MARTIN: Suspicion of what?
DUBROW: . until they are actually arresting you?
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Suspicion of a crime that -- there`s no suspicion that she committed a crime that would justify them asking for identification, and
you can`t just talk about protocol.
(CROSSTALK)
DUBROW: Well, she just committed a crime.
MARTIN: Because we know.
DUBROW: . because it was not appropriate to walk on the middle of the road.
DUBROW: . let me just finish -- let me finish this.
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: But, wait.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: African-Americans, when we talk about protocol, we know that African-Americans are treated differently in the criminal justice system.
(APPLAUSE)
CANNICK: Yes, we are (ph).
MARTIN: You can`t ignore that. That`s a reality. We can`t get away from that.
PINSKY: Yes, ma`am. Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m thinking, what if it was premeditated because maybe she planned the whole thing out before she decided to go out on her -
- her run or her jog because.
PINSKY: She is trying to entrap the cops?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: . everybody knows that.
PINSKY: She`s trying to entrap the cops?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Trying to entrap the cops to start a media.
DUBROW: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: . firestorm, because everybody knows you don`t run or jog in the middle of the side -- or in the middle of the road.
DUBROW: No. No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who does that?
PINSKY: OK. Hold on, Heather.
MARTIN: Lots of runners.
DUBROW: You know what? I`m -- forgive me, but I think that`s a little preposterous. She`s a very intelligent woman. She is a dean of students.
She is a very bright woman. However, the only thing I would say to that end is, you know, she had this experience, I can understand why it was
unsettling for her. But, at the end of the day, it took her a few days to come out with the statement. Why? Why did the stew and why did she decide
to really make a platform out of this?
MARTIN: Well, let us be factual. She says on the tape, "Why, I`m getting stopped for walking?" So, already she is expressing her concern about being
stopped.
PINSKY: Well.
ODUOLOWU: But, they say, "No, you`re not."
MARTIN: But then.
ODUOLOWU: But, they say, "No, you are not."
DUBROW: They were very respectful.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: But nobody.
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: Hang on a second. Areva, you said the cops can`t demand to know where she lived. They said, "Do you have it?" Listen, there`s a big
difference between "Give me your ID" and "Do you have it?" And, they didn`t say, "Give it." They didn`t.
(APPLAUSE)
MARTIN: Violating someone`s civil rights, it doesn`t matter how polite you are with respect to.
ODUOLOWU: Areva.
MARTIN: . the violation.
ODUOLOWU: Areva. When you say violate.
MARTIN: Your rights are your rights.
ODUOLOWU: . when we say violate, let it be for something more than a woman walking in the middle of the street.
MARTIN: Yes. Your rights are your rights, and it does not matter if you say it nicely to me or rudely to me, I have my rights.
PINSKY: Segun?
ODUOLOWU: Do you think they were rude?
(APPLAUSE)
PINSKY: Segun -- Segun, you`re just exhibiting your white privilege, again.
(APPLAUSE)
ODUOLOWU: I know. I`m like I` so -- I` like top 1 percent. I`m like that white guy.
PINSKY: I want to get question here. Go ahead. Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All I know is that I grew up in Augusta, Georgia.
PINSKY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And, we didn`t have any sidewalks. So, we had to walk in the street. So, that`s not uncommon for someone to walk in the street
and they`re in Texas.
(APPLAUSE)
MARTIN: And you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is the south. There is no.
ODUOLOWU: Yes, my dear -- no. But, my dear, it is uncommon.
MARTIN: But.
ODUOLOWU: . because there are sidewalks when she is walking in the middle of the street.
DUBROW: Right. And, by the way, are we.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But -- and she -- and she is in the south. And I could see, if you`re in Compton or if you are somewhere, where there is a lot of
cars.
ODUOLOWU: But you don`t -- but we don`t.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: . yes, of course.
ODUOLOWU: . to get -- if we don`t get to apply the rules.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s fine.
ODUOLOWU: . we don`t get to apply the rules.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But, no. She`s in the south.
ODUOLOWU: Willy-nilly.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, she has more rights to walk in her neighborhood.
ODUOLOWU: She is walking -- she`s walking -- there are sidewalks there.
PINSKY: Let me talk to John.
DUBROW: Isn`t it.
PINSKY: Hang on.
DUBROW: . isn`t it breaking the law to walk in the street?
ODUOLOWU: No, you can`t.
DUBROW: Is it breaking the law to walk on the street?
ODUOLOWU: No, you cannot.
PINSKY: I think it would be, but I don`t know that.
GOETZ: Dr. Drew, I think that what`s really -- I think the real issue that we have here, you hit on it earlier is that there`s all these views on
YouTube and is generating all these conversation, and there`s a petition to have her step down from her role as dean and.
DUBROW: Oh, boy.
GOETZ: . that, to me, I think, is the biggest tragedy because what that Op- Ed really was, was her talking about her experience and her.
PINSKY: Yes.
GOETZ: . perspective.
PINSKY: Yes.
GOETZ: . and it really wasn`t, if you read it, that much of an attack. It talked about the good things going on in that neighborhood as well, and if
you are -- if we`re to place in this country, where you cannot even express your opinion in an Op-Ed.
[21:19:58] PINSKY: Yes.
GOETZ: . without potentially losing your job, that makes me sad for expressing her rights.
PINSKY: I -- I.
(APPLAUSE)
DUBROW: But didn`t she say in that -- in that article what is this country coming to?
PINSKY: Listen. But she is allowed -- the point is she is allowed to say whatever she wants without threat.
CANNICK: True.
PINSKY: That is the -- that drives.
CANNICK: Deeply (ph).
PINSKY: . me insane.
DUBROW: Yes.
PINSKY: You must experience stuff in social media, where they attack you for God knows what.
DUBROW: Oh, yes.
PINSKY: And if you -- if you had some employment that got jeopardized just because you said something, that is awful.
DUBROW: Absolutely. I think -- listen. We live in America, she`d be able to say whatever she want.
PINSKY: Period.
DUBROW: Absolutely.
PINSKY: Let me get John`s opinion. John, I`m trying to get you in here. What`s your opinion on all of this?
CARDILLO: Well, I think everybody is leaving out one critical detail and that`s -- that in her article, in her Op-Ed, she lied. She said they --
they forcibly stopped her with lights and sirens. They didn`t and they did not violated anything like Segun says. They said, "Do you have ID?" She
said, "No." They said, "Oh, that is OK." You know they didn`t cross the issue (ph).
PINSKY: We can listen to -- here we can listen to Segun speak anymore. He got white privilege.
(CROSSTALK)
CANNICK: No. One word. It was word.
MARTIN: The only factual disparity, John was the siren.
CANNICK: What exactly.
MARTIN: They did have one that bright lights.
CANNICK: Yes.
MARTIN: That`s been confirmed and everything else that she said in that Op-Ed is confirmed by that video except the siren. It is not fair.
(CROSSTALK)
CANNICK: So, it`s not up in the siren.
MARTIN: . to call her a liar.
CANNICK: You have no.
PINSKY: Hold on.
MARTIN: That`s a small detail.
CARDILLO: Hold on. Hold on. You have to put on the lights when you stop someone in the middle of the street so other vehicles do not come slamming
into all of you.
PINSKY: All right.
CARDILLO: Actually, it`s.
(CROSSTALK)
DUBROW: You don`t want -- come on -- you know, when you`re pulled.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stop the light.
DUBROW: . over by the police, whether you`re walking -- I mean come on. You get nervous. I mean she had not seen the tape. To her, there was light. So,
there was light. There were noises, whatever it was to her, that was what she experienced.
PINSKY: Jasmyne, what do you say.
CANNICK: Look, that was an honest mistake she made. OK?
DUBROW: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was odd.
MARTIN: It was one word.
(CROSSTALK)
CANNICK: At the end of the day.
(LAUGHTER)
ODUOLOWU: You heard the siren?
CANNICK: It was one siren.
ODUOLOWU: That`s not honest.
CANNICK: It was -- I wasn`t siren. OK? And.
ODUOLOWU: That`s not honest.
CANNICK: And it was her experience. And, I agree that that Op-Ed was her experience, just like the officer said, their experience. OK? At the end of
the day, I`m going to stand by it. I don`t think that the officers are rude, but I do think that they were overreaching and overstepping by asking
for her ID.
ODUOLOWU: But -- so, wait. So, wait. So, she is overreached.
CANNICK: We are allowed to walk in the street. People do it in Compton. People do it in L.A. People do it down south.
PINSKY: But, Jasmyne.
CANNICK: People jog every morning.
PINSKY: Your point well taken, but what -- there`s two things that is going jump out from this whole story, but I got to go to a break just a second
here.
CANNICK: OK.
PINSKY: But one is the restriction of our -- the PC world we live in and the restriction of our personal freedoms of expression is just ridiculous.
This woman -- she -- her job should be protected regardless of what she said on the tape, number one.
(APPLAUSE)
MARTIN: I agree.
PINSKY: But, number two, you know, I`m sure John Cardillo would agree with me on this, cops have trouble doing their job now. I mean we -- not that we
want them to do their jobs.
CANNICK: I agree. Look, at the end of the day, this was not a situation like we had with the actress here in Los Angeles, OK? Where it clearly that
tape showed a different story. All right. This lady made one mistake on her recollection.
PINSKY: But, Jasmyne. she got --she got -- this woman got defensive fast.
CANNICK: But we do.
PINSKY: And you saw that.
CANNICK: . I got defensive when I -- when I found out officers were following me because we already know as black people, something is about to
go down.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
(APPLAUSE)
CANNICK: Something is about to happen. So, you have to be defensive. You have to be ready for whatever is coming at you.
(APPLAUSE)
PINSKY: I -- I -- listen. Well, I just got to leave it right there. I think -- I think -- well, this is not a conversation that ends today. It is
changed a little bit, the character mostly because Segun has come -- changes his whole point of view, which I don`t know what that means. But --
but the fact.
ODUOLOWU: Being white guy.
PINSKY: . no. It`s not that. It`s -- the fact is we -- the police -- we -- at one time, we have to really keep the conversation going about what
African-Americans are experiencing, and this woman experienced is important. She should be protected and allowed to express it, but at the
same token, we want police to be able to do their job. So, this is going to be a continued navigation.
And, next, I`m going to show you two new videos of police being attacked by teenage students. Back after this.
(APPLAUSE)
[21:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cell phone video capturing the sights and sounds of a student coming to blows with an Allentown police officer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is awful that they were doing that to cops.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A female officer can be seen on the ground. A girl wearing an Allen School uniform is seen punching her. A crowd of students
then surround the two, and police say some of them joined in on the assault.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The officer overwhelmed as she tries to stop her previous fight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Four of our officers were injured.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say they`ve have arrested five kids.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If a cop put a hand on you or you did -- in the wrong way or touch you in the wrong way, then I think you got the right to hit
them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Four officers injured, five students arrested, police trying to break up several fights outside that high school, some students ended up
turning on the officers as you saw. Back with Heather, Areva, Segun, AnneElise, John and Jasmyne. And Segun, you heard them say that if the cops
put your hands on you, you have a right to -- to hit him.
ODUOLOWU: See, that hurts my heart because I work with kids.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely.
ODUOLOWU: . and you know, once the show is over, I`m going to go coach high school kids and I see them every single day. The -- to have that type of
mentality knowing, as it.
PINSKY: You see it is happening?
ODUOLOWU: No, I -- no, to see kids every day who walk around with this fake tough air and think that it`s OK to -- not only be on TV saying something
that ludicrous but to think that striking an adult is a way to handle things, talks about where we are. There`s such a large disconnect between
the kids and the cops, what they think is OK and what the cops and what we`re seeing is OK. It is scary.
PINSKY: And, Areva, Sergeant Cheryl is here with us all the time, she always says, "You put your hands on cops, bad things will happen."
MARTIN: Yes. I don`t think those kids have any clue about the seriousness of what just happened in that video and the long-term consequences in terms
of criminal charges, possibly even being charged as an adult and the criminal record, you know, messes up their college, their law -- their
education, their job prospects, and it`s just not a good look for kids to be hitting a cop.
ODUOLOWU: But, Areva, that young brother was like, "It is OK."
MARTIN: Yes.
ODUOLOWU: It`s that line. "It is OK. I think I have the right to." Like you can`t -- that mentality has to -- wherever it`s coming from, you got to
exterminate that.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Oh, is that -- go ahead, Heather.
DUBROW: Well, one of the kids made a statement saying that the cops put their hands on the child.
PINSKY: Yes.
DUBROW: . and that`s why they started interacting, but the truth is the beginning of the story was, the kids were in a brawl and the cops went in
to break it up.
PINSKY: Of course.
DUBROW: So, if you`re in a brawl and someone is reaching in, right. I`ve got four kids. You know, who knows where you`re reaching. You`re just
pulling them all out. You cannot beat up an adult and certainly not an officer.
PINSKY: But, Jasmyne, you know, Segun asked the question, where does this attitude come from, and my greatest fear is, I don`t want to shrink away
from these conversations, but my fear is by saying, "You do not have to show the police your -- your ID", that is in that same zone as, "Hey man,
you`re not the boss of me. I can hit you back," kind of crazy thinking as it pertains to authority, no?
[21:30:03] CANNICK: Yes. I mean one of the things I thought about when I saw that video was, I guess they haven`t seen enough black people get
killed by reaching in a pocket, you know, being pulled over. I mean, these kids actually put their hands on an officer and lived to tell about it.
They should be thanking God, right now, in America.
(APPLAUSE)
OK? But, then again, when you want to talk about society and you want to talk about kids, it is like, look, we have kids that do not even respect
their parents.
PINSKY: Yes.
CANNICK: So, what -- what make you think that they will respect a person with a gun and a badge?
PINSKY: All right, I`ll start it there. I`m with you on that. AnneElise?
GOETZ: I mean, I think that it is -- it`s sad to see something like this, but I think the saddest part is the boy`s response because I -- I believe
there is a lack of education, and when -- and when kids are being educated by YouTube, there are all these videos on YouTube right now and they`re
talking about how to interact with the cops and how to challenge the cops, and there`s a misconception going on across this country on what you are
allowed to do. And that -- it`s a -- it is a -- they should take this as an opportunity to go in and educate the kids because they are kids. These are
15-year-old young kids.
PINSKY: Yes, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. My thoughts are everywhere, but it just seemed like culture is starting to move ahead of racial issues, and I agree
what the brother said earlier. I also mentor high school students, and my point is, when they can relate to you, they do not react to you that way.
(APPLAUSE)
So, in this case, I mean I -- I`m just -- just speaking from the heart not really speaking for applause, but in this case, me, I do understand, "Oh,
youth," when I say, "Ah, you`ve been talking about black American youth."
PINSKY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They have seen all of this horrific history we have, and now they are rebelling. Ferguson proved that. Baltimore proved that. Those
were teenagers in Baltimore raise a hell at federal tanks. So, there`s now look -- now that we know the law i.e. you know, the black parents (ph),
thus, "Oh, we have a right to defend ourselves? Are we are going to do it?" And, look, this is my observation, look and see what they`re doing.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Is that what you want, your students you are mentoring?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. You know what I said. That`s what I want. I`ve said.
PINSKY: I`m just saying.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: . I`m -- I`m observing out youth.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: You`re explaining. Got it. Do you agree with it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is what they are doing.
ODUOLOWU: I agree with him up to the point. I think the kids are seeing.
(APPLAUSE)
PINSKY: I`m glad -- I`m glad you, guys, are interacting with the kids.
ODUOLOWU: No, no, no.
PINSKY: If that`s what you`re saying.
ODUOLOWU: No, again, this is the scary part. The credibility of the police has fallen so far.
PINSKY: Oh, right.
ODUOLOWU: . that cop -- that kids actually think it`s better to put their hands on cops than be led away in handcuffs.
PINSKY: John, help me out here.
CARDILLO: I mean, I think -- I think the whole thing is ridiculous. You know, look, there`s a couple of components here, and interestingly, this
situation was less about race and more about mob mentality. Allentown is primarily Hispanic and that was representative in the crowd. You know, I
was in -- in an altercation like that where I had six suspects on my back, because we went to break up a fight and the crowd was there in an instant.
Very volatile and dangerous and, yes, there`s -- there`s -- there`s division between the police and the public, especially kids, isn`t -- isn`t
helping.
PINSKY: Heather?
CARDILLO: It`s miraculous someone didn`t get killed there.
PINSKY: You`re right.
DUBROW: You know what, I -- I understand what you`re saying about what the kid are learning from YouTube and the school, but they`re also learning
from their parents. So, I think what we can`t ignore is that some point, we got to break the cycle. It`s got to start with the parents teaching the
children to respect.
PINSKY: Exactly.
DUBROW: . no matter what color the officer is.
(APPLAUSE)
. that there is authority in their lives whether it`d be teachers, principals, dean of students whomever it is, on both sides, yes, but we
have to teach this to them.
PINSKY: I had Joey Jackson sitting on this -- now on this stage. We were in New York Diamond (ph). He sees an attorney. He`s a black man. He says he
educates his kids, "Whatever you officer says, you do it. Period, and we will deal with it, later. Just do what officers say."
MARTIN: Well, not everybody agrees with that, Dr. Drew.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: I know, Sunny Hostin did not. I didn`t expect Areva too, either. But - but still, he -- the point is, we can educate our kids to respond
differently.
MARTIN: We can, but there`s also responsibility on the part of these adults.
DUBROW: I agree.
MARTIN: . telling our kids to respect. So, yes, we should teach our kids to respect authority, but authority also has to respect the roles that they
play and they have to respect kids.
(APPLAUSE)
PINSKY: All right. We`re going to look at the same story in a different state, this time, you`ll never guess where -- Florida, everybody. Florida.
No, shocking.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
PINSKY: Florida. Students turn up police in Florida. Look, it looks pretty bad, though. We will get to do after this.
(APPLAUSE)
[21:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The brawl in the back started between a group of boys against one.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, (inaudible) I`ve had no offense (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police board the bus and removed two boys. Outside and off camera, officers had to physically takedown one of the boys and that is
when students started yelling.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One officer put his hands on the girl`s shoulder to get her to sit down. That`s when officers say she resisted and started kicking.
Shortly after police say, her sister jumped in to pull her sister away from the officer and punched him while they were escorted off the bus.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Two high school girls arrested for assaulting the officers, but the mother of these girls say they were just defending themselves. Back with
Heather, Areva, Segun, John, AnneElise and Jasmyne. Jasmyne, simple defense?
CANNICK: Well, again, they are lucky that they are alive.
PINSKY: Yes.
CANNICK: And, two, you have to understand in America, resisting arrest is rolling your eyes at a cop. So, the fact that he put his hand on her -- her
shoulder and now they`re calling that resisting arrest, "Ah, I`m a little, oh, OK." But, I would not -- I wouldn`t want my daughter to -- if I had a
kid, to try to pull her sister away from a police officer. Again, you are talking about life and death here. All right?
PINSKY: For the -- the death would be the.
CANNICK: There are two cops on a bus full of rowdy teenagers. They get scared that we`ve seen it before. Guns come out, people get killed. OK?
PINSKY: AnneElise.
CANNICK: So, again, it comes back to simple respect and take -- and being smart about how you interact with law enforcement.
GOETZ: The bottom line, she wasn`t just, you know, trying to get his hands -- there was -- she was throwing punches. It was -- it was a lot more
aggravated than just trying to dodge a cop that was trying to, you know, push her down into her seat.
[21:39:54] You cannot hit a cop and expect it to end well for you, ever. I think she should be happy that the way that -- the way that she left --
there wasn`t a taser involved. Nothing else happened. She is off of the bus.
DUBROW: She is alive.
GOETZ: She`s safely off the bus. Where I -- what I would like to see more of, though, is the fact that we`re talking about, I think a 9th grader and
a 12th grader.
DUBROW: Yes.
GOETZ: These are young kids.
PINSKY: Yes.
GOETZ: And, I want to see more education with the young kids, and the fact of the matter is at 9th grade you can`t drive, you can`t vote, you can`t do
anything like we recognize as a society that you don`t make good judgment calls.
PINSKY: You know what, though, you guys are fighting I.
GOETZ: So, they need to, you know, to acknowledge that there.
PINSKY: . education is one thing, but we`re fighting now experiential media. You know, PD (ph) -- if you`re -- when you get in front of a group
of people, and you know, you and your, you know, your robes, and me in my white coat, it -- they don`t listen. They don`t want to hear information.
They want to see action.
ODUOLOWU: Dr. Drew, where is the -- where is the protocol for the police? Two cops trying to -- to subdue a school bus full of kids, like where`s the
backup?
PINSKY: Well, John, what is the -- there`s not enough backup in there?
MARTIN: It`s all their game (ph) -- called a gun.
PINSKY: John?
(LAUGHTER)
CARDILLO: Well -- well, here`s the problem, right? If they come with too much backup then they`re jack booted, heavy handed thugs. And, everybody
forgets that in May of this year, in Jacksonville, Florida, a 16-year-old shot the students on a school bus and the call for help to the police came
over exactly the same way this one originated. So, this cops ended this situation with a previous incident where deadly gunfire erupted.
PINSKY: Audience.
CARDILLO: And what have they called (ph) for backup, you know.
PINSKY: Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just want to say that these kids don`t know that they need to stay in the kid`s place. I`m an old school fan. My kids know,
you stay in the child`s place. You don`t get to do what adults do because you`re not an adult yet. So, that`s the problem with these children. They
do not understand that they`re still children.
PINSKY: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And that is the place that they need to be.
(APPLAUSE)
PINSKY: Heather?
DUBROW: I think one thing that we`re missing also to keep talking about the experiences of the kids.
PINSKY: Yes.
DUBROW: And, what they`re learning, but the cops said, their own experiences too, and they`re getting killed and they`re getting beaten up
also. So, they`re going into a bus full of people, like we`re saying, they don`t know what these children have, and as far as I`m, concerned, it`s
back to the education. When an officer walks on a bus, those children should have their butts in the seats and looking up.
ODUOLOWU: Heather. Heather, here`s why I disagree with you, just really quickly. You -- the kids are kids, our kids, those cops signed up for the
job.
MARTIN: That`s right.
ODUOLOWU: So -- so, you got to know better as the adult and as the cop to - - you got to know better.
DUBROW: But there`s still cautious is what I`m saying.
ODUOLOWU: I`m.
DUBROW: They don`t know what they`re walking into. They have to protect themselves also.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have our guard (ph).
ODUOLOWU: I`m not -- I`m not arguing to protect themselves, but just remember in that video, that is a man wrestling with a girl.
PINSKY: I mean, I don`t.
ODUOLOWU: So, that looks bad any way you slice it.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: But, I do not know.
DUBROW: But what he is supposed to do?
ODUOLOWU: A grown man and a little girl.
DUBROW: Stand there, while she is kicking him?
ODUOLOWU: No. The police -- the police should have better protocol.
PINSKY: Yes, but then.
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: . for men (ph) to be wrestling a girl.
PINSKY: . I don`t -- that may be a community police. That might not have been resource officers. Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. I`m a substitute teacher and I teach everything from high school to kindergarten, and kids are inherently good. That`s how
I lost my voice. They`re good, but it takes education, communication and respect, and we have to start them young. Some parents don`t even talk to
their kids. So, the teachers have to step in and talk to them.
MARTIN: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But all it takes is a one student that`s having a bad day, that`s not understood. And, you know, it`s his chance to rebel and
fight back, and kids jump on that and they -- in the heat at the moment, like on the bus, you know, they all jump on it, and they don`t think in the
moment. Parents and teachers have to talk to kids and really drill them and let them know that it`s not OK to do this.
PINSKY: You know, you`re right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Even someone else is doing something wrong.
(APPLAUSE)
PINSKY: You`re right and finish, Areva.
MARTIN: I -- I don`t know what the race of these young girls are, but I just read a study today from the University of Chicago that said, over 50
percent of African-American millennials, the age group that we`re talking about, has had some kind of negative and violent experience with the
police. So, we have to make sure we`re addressing these really big issues in these cases.
PINSKY: OK. I -- I agree with you. I agree with what she was saying, but here -- here`s what I`m sort of thinking about that she -- the -- she said
the kids aren`t being attended to in the home. That`s my teacher -- the teacher just said.
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: Absolutely. Absolutely. There`s a danger (ph).
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: And you are doing monitoring -- you -- mentoring your kids and you`re finding that.
ODUOLOWU: Every day.
PINSKY: The -- the -- the hope for the future is sitting across the table for me here, Segun. You going out there and mentoring kids.
(APPLAUSE)
. a single -- well, here`s we know about kids and their behavioral outcomes, a single positive relationship outside their home sustained. You
have to stay with those kids wherever they are (ph).
DUBROW (?): Right.
ODUOLOWU: Yes, I know.
PINSKY: Good luck with that. But -- there are other gentleman who has also said he was mentoring, hats off to you, man. That`s -- that`s -- that`s how
we solve these problems.
(APPLAUSE)
Single, positive relationships with an adult sustained over time can markedly change the directory -- the trajectory of these young kids.
Next up, I have a social media star giving up social media in an emotional confession. She will tell us why.
(APPLAUSE)
[21:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
PINSKY: Time for "Click Fix," where my guests tell me what is trending on their Twitter, Facebook and Instagram feeds, and Areva is number one.
MARTIN: OK. Dr. Drew, as you know, MTV`s teen moms are no strangers to controversy especially when it comes to what they post on social media. So,
Farrah Abraham landed in hot water when she instagrammed and tweeted photos of her 6-year-old daughter, Sophia, wearing what looks like mascara, blush,
lip gloss, and this is her first grade portrait. And, then on Instagram, there was Maci Bookout cradling her daughter, Jay, and what appears to be
her holding a can of beer.
Now, another teen mom, Mackenzie McKee is accused of hitting a new low. Take a look at this picture. She just posted this on Instagram. Her 4-year-
old son, Gannon, holding a rifle with this caption, get this, "Do not worry, mama. I will put supper on the table. #RaisingThemRight.
Now, I know Dr. Drew, you work with the teen moms. Help us understand what is going on?
PINSKY: I haven`t seen Mackenzie in a couple of years. So, I do not know what that is all about. T
(LAUGHTER)
MARTIN: OK.
PINSKY: And -- but.
MARTIN: That`s a nice disclaimer.
[21:49:58] PINSKY: . but -- but to be fair, I mean, we`re judging their cultural perspective where they live.
MARTIN: 4-year-old? Rifle?
PINSKY: Listen. I wouldn`t something -- I would choose. But I -- I`m just saying, I`m -- I -- we could do a whole -- we can may be tomorrow do a
whole -- we can maybe tomorrow do a whole segment on that.
MARTIN: OK.
PINSKY: Because I`m not going to -- I`m not going to just uniformly judge it, number one. Maci has a beer beside her. Maci is not an alcoholic. Maci
is allowed to have a beer once in a while, if she wants to have a beer, but as far as -- as far as.
(APPLAUSE)
MARTIN: But the photograph on Instagram with the infant and the beer, not a great one.
PINSKY: Not well thought out. So, I`m fine, but the other side condemn (ph) me.
ODUOLOWU: It`s real talk.
DUBROW: I`d better go and delete.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Cross the tot (ph) -- like - and Sophia wearing all that make up, so that`s.
ODUOLOWU: It`s a lot.
PINSKY: . that`s a little disturbing.
ODUOLOWU: . a lot.
PINSKY: I`m really troubled.
DUBROW: I mean the best part of the portraits are the unattractive ones with their hair all messed up.
PINSKY: In fact, your old first grade pictures?
DUBROW: . and bad.
MARTIN: Yes. OK.
ODUOLOWU: It is like -- she`s in first grade.
MARTIN: Yes.
PINSKY: Yes.
ODUOLOWU: First grade.
PINSKY: It`s like -- let -- let.
MARTIN: No judgment. But.
PINSKY: I would judge that.
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: Yes, I`m going to judge that, too.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: Yes, because we -- little -- the sexy girl thing is a way out of hand.
MARTIN: But you do not find.
PINSKY: Way out of hand.
MARTIN: . the rifle offensive?
PINSKY: That`s a whole segment. We have to do a segment about it here.
(LAUGHTER)
I would not choose that. I have very grave concerns about the guns as you know. OK, Segun, what do you got?
ODUOLOWU: Well, Dr. Drew, if you think teen moms make questionable decisions, talk to the mayor of Lahoma, Oklahoma, whose husband decided
that it would be good to dress up with three of his friends as Ku Klux Klan members and stage a cross burning.
PINSKY: What?
DUBROW: Oh, my gosh.
ODUOLOWU: She, now -- now, the mayor is saying that, though, she disagrees with her husband`s actions, and they do not reflect.
PINSKY: Is that the mayor?
ODUOLOWU: .with the idea of the -- you know, they don`t reflect the community of Lahoma, which only has 600 people, this is the same Oklahoma
that had the students at the University of Oklahoma doing the racist -- doing the racist songs on the bus.
PINSKY: This is I -- forgive me, but.
ODUOLOWU: Let`s watch this. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARY SHARP, MAYOR THERESA SHARP`S HUSBAND: Cousin of mine come up with the idea of dressing up, you know, like KKK members, and so, we took a couple
of sheets and cut holes I mean -- wore sheets and a very, very poor decision. I`d never realized that it would`ve been this harmful. I truly
apologize to everybody for this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: OK. Well, at least.
ODUOLOWU: Yes.
PINSKY: . we have some apology, but it`s still astonishing.
ODUOLOWU: But think about being this.
PINSKY: How is she?
ODUOLOWU: . think about the kitchen table the next day when he has to explain why she`ll never be in office, again, for that.
PINSKY: I -- again, another segment may be tomorrow. Heather, what do you got?
DUBROW: OK. Well, my "Click Fix" is about a social media star who is deleting all of her accounts because she says that the life she was
promoting on her social media was fake. Essena O`Neill, she is an 18-year- old model from Australia, and on Instagram alone, she had over half million
followers, and over the past several years, she has posted thousands of glamorous photos. We see her wearing gorgeous dresses and showing off her
bikini body, but now she says, the perfect life she showed off in social media is, quote, "Not real life."
So, she has deleted over 2,000 photos and re-captioned other photos with the truthful untold stories behind the images, and in one bikini photo, she
revealed that it took 100 attempts to get just the right shot and that she had starved herself all day.
PINSKY: Oh.
DUBROW: So, honestly, I have to be honest. If it took me 200 to get look like her in a bikini like I might attempt that to be honest with you.
(LAUGHTER)
. but to be -- no, but seriously, I.
PINSKY: It`s bad messaging to young girls.
DUBROW: . it`s a bad message.
PINSKY: Yes.
DUBROW: And I actually personally, you know, I worked with Jenny McCarthy on a show years ago, and she was the first one to me that exposed that they
would lengthen her legs in pictures.
PINSKY: Yes.
DUBROW: And that it was all photoshopped (ph) which I admired, and for me, personally, I never put filters on my Instagram because I want people to
see what I look like.
PINSKY: But -- what we`re -- what we`re teaching young women about themselves, their appearance, and their bodies and the worth of their
bodies were.
DUBROW: He said it`s not OK.
PINSKY: It is really -- we have to think about that.
ODUOLOWU: Even if it`s self-exploitation?
(APPLAUSE)
I mean, she doesn`t.
PINSKY: It`s not.
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: I mean, she doesn`t have to put those pictures on Instagram.
(APPLAUSE)
PINSKY: I got to get out. Next up, you`re going to hear from an Uber driver who is assaulted by a passenger. Back after this.
(APPLAUSE)
[21:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Video of an Uber driver assaulted by a drunk passenger has had more than 2 million views. Here is what the victim -- yes, this is unbelievable.
Is it crazy? The victim and his attorney told "Good Morning America" this morning, take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RIVERS MORRELL, EDWARD CABAN`S ATTORNEY: It`s unacceptable behavior, and we want to make sure he understands that.
EDWARD CABAN, UBER DRIVER: He was, you know, forgetting what he was saying. I kept trying to ask him, you know, for directions and he was becoming very
aggressive with me.
CABAN: I think his hat flew off, and I was able to break free. I was able to turn around and -- and spray him in the face.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(APPLAUSE)
PINSKY: Got him with the pepper spray. The driver says he, quote, "Continues to suffer emotional injury and distress." He has filed a lawsuit
against his attacker, Benjamin Gold, for unspecified damages. Gold has been fired from his job and faces up to a year in prison on assault and battery
charges. He has been banned from Uber for life.
(LAUGHTER)
ODUOLOWU: Nobody pick him up.
(APPLAUSE)
PINSKY: Yes. My son, I -- I have family members that have been driving for Uber, and I saw that. It scared the heck out of me. I said, you know.
DUBROW: Well, there`s no divider. I mean, you`re there. It`s like being -- it`s like hitchhiking with pay.
PINSKY: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
It`s -- it`s interesting because you got to have GoPro and pepper spray and -- as part of the equipment they give out now with the Uber.
All right, a reminder, we are on SnapChat. You can join us there @DrDrewHLN. Yes, we`ll do a lot of snapchatting. Also, we have an after
show on Facebook. All right. That -- you`re invited to stay with us, all three of you. You guys can stick around after the show. All right, we`ll
talk a little bit more about the stop, walking while black in Texas and whether that is right or not. You`re laughing.
ODUOLOWU: No. Because everyone was like, I`m all after sudden anti-black and I`m not.
PINSKY: You`re white privileged, Segun.
ODUOLOWU: Listen. I`m always pro commonsense.
DUBROW: Can you move his chair.
PINSKY: We`ll get into it.
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: I`m a pro commonsense.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Thanks for watching. Thank you, audience. Thank you, panel. DVR us. We`ll see you next time.
(APPLAUSE)
[21:59:50] ODUOLOWU: Pro commonsense.
(APPLAUSE)
END
