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Dr. Drew
Special Edition: The World Mourns With France; What Are We Facing And How Can We Keep Safe? Aired 9-10p ET
Aired November 16, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:00:24] DREW PINSKY, "DR. DREW", HOST: Tonight, as the world mourns with France, we bring you a special edition of our show. We brought together our
panelists and several consultants to help to you attempt to help to understand what we`re facing and what you can do to keep safe. 129
massacred, 352 injured. Terrorists carried out of course a series of attack. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Here at the sites of two of the restaurant massacres just behind me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say gunmen armed with AK-47 style weapons stormed at least two restaurants and opened fire killing multiple people.
Explosions rocked a stadium during an international soccer match. Gunmen took dozens of people hostage in a concert hall.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s the movement the concern where hall killers opened fire.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We heard this bang, bang, bang. And like everyone else we said it was fireworks. I felt something go past my ear. I didn`t know,
if was a bullet or something. I don`t know what it was. Everyone flew themselves on the ground.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are in fact psychopathic monsters.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joining me Tyler Cohen Wood Cybersecurity Adviser for Inspired eLearning and former Intelligence Office with Department of Defense Judy Ho
Clinical Psychologist, Professor of Pepperdine Univesity, Segun Oduolowu Entertainment Journalist, Evy Poumpouras former Special Agent Secret
Service and Security Expert Lisa Bloom, Civil Right lawyer at the Bloom Firm, Legal Analyst from abu.com and Ernie White Civil Rights advocate.
Evy, as usually, we go to you in times like this. I got to say I`m getting tired of it. Not because we don`t love you but because it`s under these
extraordinary circumstances. What do we do now?
EVY POUMPOURAS, FMR. SPECIAL AGENT, SECRET SERVICE: Well, you know, Dr. Drew. I mean, this is really our reality. It`s not that there`s nothing to
do but this is just where we`re at. And I think with the population doesn`t really understand that these terrorist attacks, these plots have been
ongoing for quite some time.
I`ll give you an example just in New York City alone, the deputy commissioner of intelligence and terrorism said that in the past few years
that they intercepted about 20 terrorist plots. So this is just where we have to as Americans understand this. And this is -- let me say this. This
is not a once off what happened in Paris. Already intelligence officials are coming out saying that they do suspect additional plots, not just in
Paris but in other areas and specifically ISIS has already targeted and made a video saying they are planning on targeting Washington D.C.
PINSKY: And Lisa let me bring you at right on this. You and I were talking before the show about how to assess our risk.
LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY: Right. We have to be careful not to act out of fear. It`s like making bad decisions when you`re drunk. What happened in Paris
was horrific. We`ve seen the images over and over again. But when we actually look at the data, what we know is that homegrown non-Muslim
terrorists twice as often have killed people in the U.S. since 9/11. I`m talking about in South Carolina, the shooting in the church where nine
African-Americans were killed for example. Sikh Temple.
A lot of people killed. So it`s generally right-wing terrorists in the United States who pose more of a threat. We`re so afraid of Muslim
terrorists and people are talking about keep the Muslims out, which is so unAmerican and in my opinion unconstitutional. And I just think we have to
be logical and rationale when we talk about what the risks are.
PINSKY: Are way too logical?
ERNIE WHITE, CIVIL RIGHTS ADVOCATE: That`s very too logical. Right now, you know, President Obama today said we need to allow 200,000 more Syrians into
this country. Right now we need to stop it. We need to protect America now.
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, ENTERTAINMENT JOURNALIST: Listen, Ernie, with all due respect, I feel that anybody of color should be for inclusion. I`m never
for exclusion. What I am for is common sense and we need better screening policies. We are a country that`s a melting pot. We have said look at us.
We`re a city upon a hill. We`re what people aspire to be. We do not close our borders because Paris got bombed. What we need to do, Dr. Drew, is just
be more diligent with the way we screen and scrutinize. I mean, we used to do this on Ellis Island. We got to do better job.
PINSKY: But my understanding is it`s not possible to do it given with the access to false I.D.s these days.
WHITE: Yeah, you can`t screen. We`re not even screening ourselves. We don`t have a website for the healthcare to work. We can`t screen 200,000 new
refugees. We are at war. We are at war right now in Afghanistan. We`re still at war.
[21:05:04] ODUOLOWU: OK, but wait. Are we at war at Afghanistan?
WHITE: We`re at war with Islamic terrorists.
ODUOLOWU: Who do we keep out Ernie because keep out one Mexican person killed somebody in America? Do we then build a wall and keep them out?
WHITE: Obama can`t say it.
ODUOLOWU: Because I`m not jury in America.
WHITE: But I will say it.
ODUOLOWU: Do they keep and my parents out.
WHITE: We`re at war with Islamic terrorist.
BLOOM: Yes. And so are the Syrian refugees who are the victims of ISIS in Syria.
WHITE: Thank you but as we.
BLOOM: That`s why they`re refugees. And Ernie, here`s the point.
WHITE: But we`re not going now.
BLOOM: If you broad brush an entire group because of the bad actions of a few, a very definition of bias, bigotry and racism.
WHITE: I care about the American people first. Before we can protect the Syrians, we have to protect Americans.
ODUOLOWU: Yeah.
WHITE: We`ve already gone through 9/11. We`re not going to do that again. We need to protect ourselves.
PINSKY: Give me my camera back, guys. OK, here`s the deal. Evy, look at what you started here my dear. So go ahead.
POUMPOURAS: Yes, so I just want to clarify couple of things with regard to this screening process. And just from a factual standpoint. You cannot
screened for this, you just can`t. When you screen people, you run their name against terrorist watch list to see if they`re wanted anywhere.
But the concern is, is that a lot of these individuals are not on watch list. So if there`s no way to know and there`s no also no way to know
what`s in the mind and heart of the person.
The other thing is we put a huge responsibility on law enforcement. And we think that law enforcement can stop every single attack and they cannot.
There is going to be an attack that going to slip though. We start on 9/11. We see it in Paris and we`ve seen it in other areas. They can`t possibly
catch everybody. So, this idea of doing mass surveillance is very overwhelming on law enforcement.
PINSKY: Well, let me go to Tyler here there something we can do at online security.
TYLER COHEN WOOD, FMR. INTELLIGENCE OFFICER DOD: Absolutely. So and if we`re talking about just terrorism, I`m also talking about schools. If we
start to notice that someone who is in our social media thread starts to change their persona and there`s red flags in what they`re assaying. We
need to take notice and we need to do something about that.
PINSKY: OK one of the red flags and where the flags and what going to be reported.
WOOD: So, red flags are all of a sudden they talk about darkness and gloom and doom or their personality has completely changed. They suddenly are
militant type of group or they even say I have a manifesto. I`m going to do this. And you have to report that to the authorities.
PINSKY: Who is whom? FBI?
WOOD: FBI. If it`s a potential school, you can contact your local law enforcement.
PINSKY: Evy, you`re raising your hand. FBI?
POUMPOURAS: You know, this is the thing and I understand what she`s saying. The issue is what about those individuals where there are no red flags.
Because If I`m look to carry out a terrorist attack, I`m not going to put it on Facebook. I`m not going to put out there. So we`re not worried about
those people that are making it known. What about those people that we don`t know?
PINSKY: Now we hearing that they`re encrypting it and they`re on playstation and doing this crazy stuff. Judy, I`m so freaked out, I want to
pack a gun. What`s wrong with me?.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They know Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: But I know but.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: I`m not saying I want to. What`s wrong with me? What has this done to us?
JUDY HO, PH.D. CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: There is nothing wrong with you. We`re always more hypervigilant after a big event like this. Everyone is on
their tippy-toes. Figuring out what`s going on and scrutinizing the environment around them. But we have to be careful not to jump to too many
conclusions.
There are professionals who`re on the job. We as civilians can do the best that we can and not wait for the experiences of other people and reactions
of other people. If do see something concerning, report it right away to somebody.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely.
HO: So that somebody else can do something about it. But in the meantime, live your life as you would. Don`t just start locking up your doors and not
going out to restaurants because one of the hits was at a restaurant in Paris. You have to keep living your life or else they`ve won.
PINSKY: Next threats from ISIS have U.S. enforce flipped out on heightened alert. We`ll talk about how to keep save. Evy gets into specifics when we
come back. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:10:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[21:13:09] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The American Band "Eagle of Death Metal" was playing at the venue when gunmen forced their way in taking hostages and
executing many according to police.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ve seen two terrorists from my point of view with ak- 47 firing randomly into the crowd. People yelled. Screamed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All the people were starting to panicked and lying on the ground.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It lasted for 10 minutes. Ten minutes and horrific minutes where everyone was on the floor covering their head. And we heard
so many gunshots and the terrorists were very calm.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: It`s just excruciating. Ten minutes three heavily armed gunmen walking into a pack concert hall in Paris opening fire on the crowd 89
dead, 99 injured.
Back with Tyler, Judy, Segun, Evy, Lisa and Ernie. Evy, you know, so tell us what to do. If someone comes into a crowded -- I`m very upset about
this, this whole thing is deeply disturbing.
POUMPOURAS: Yeah.
PINSKY: But I want to know if somebody comes into a crowded theater, we`ve had that happen in nonterrorist situation as Evy, as Lisa has pointed out,
what does somebody do to survive in a situation where somebody opens fire in a theater or in a stadium let say?
POUMPOURAS: So the thing we need to start doing is having more situational awareness. So when you arrive at a location, the first thing you should do
and you hear this a lot, but know where your exits are, OK? Always have two exits basically. If one doesn`t work, the other one may work. And then what
I strongly suggest is psychologically most people when something happens, they`ll go out the same door they came in. It`s the herd mentality. And you
don`t want to get caught up in that.
Meaning, go out a door that everybody else isn`t going out. So it`s not just the attackers that can be dangerous but also getting caught in a
stampede which at this concert many people were actually injured because of the stampede. So always have that alternate exit that you can use.
[21:15 10] The other thing you want to do is if there are shots or somebody`s firing, you always want to move away from the sounds of the
shots. And you want to evacuate the area. That`s the number one thing you want to try to do. Get out of there. If can you not, you want to try find a
room or an area where you can harden up. A room where you can lock the door and keep yourself safe and maybe a bathroom, if you can lock the bathroom
door. Bathrooms are excellent because they give you good coverage because of the tiles and so they can withstand bullets. That would be cover.
Now another thing to keep in mind, if you are hiding in a room, take your cell phone out and put it on vibrate or silence it. That`s another thing to
give away your position, OK. And addition there`s something also called cover and concealment.
With cover, cover is some -- hiding behind something that can actually stop a bullet. OK, from striking you. Something strong like wood or steel.
PINSKY: Well, these guys had AK. Well, these guys had cliche (ph) to cause so we would do that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That riffles.
POUMPOURAS: Yes, if you find proper cover it could withstand that. But this is the thing Dr. Drew. You can also hide behind concealment. Concealment
can be a drape, it can be a poster. Now you may say well that can`t stop bullets. Of course it cannot. But it can also conceal you. What people
cannot see? They will not target and will not shoot.
PINSKY: Let me ask you this. People were asking and our audience here playing dead a good idea or bad idea?
POUMPOURAS: You know, I`ve heard that before. The thing is with this specific scenario, it`s been documented that people actually played death
and shooters went up to them and executed them and shot them to make sure they were dead. My suggestion and again, if you have nothing else to do and
if you`re stuck in that scenario and it`s between life and death, fight, fight, fight. You become an animal and you fight. Because if you just stand
there and you freeze and you will not -- if you take that victim role, that soon want you to take.
PINSKY: Yeah.
POUMPOURAS: They want you to be the victim, don`t take that role. You switch and you say, you know, what I`m going to go down. Well, I`m going to
take you with me.
PINSKY: All right, let`s go to the audience (inaudible).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, a comment about something that was said a little earlier. I think was gentleman said we need to close our borders to all of
the Syrian refugees. And that seems like such an extremist attitude for a country that was based on give me your tired, give me your poor, and we`ve
long been the refuge for people that were persecuted. And if we start turning against people that need our help, I think the terrorism it will
take that worse.
BLOOM: You know and Dr. Drew, we`ve made this mistake in the past. You know my people, the Jews, in World War II, we were refuges from Hitler. We were
coming over on ships and ships were turned away by the U.S. because they were afraid of the refugees. We round it up Japanese American in World War
II and put them camps, because we were afraid of them because of the action of the few. We shouldn`t make that mistake again.
PINSKY: You know, they say the terrorists were communicating, they think now by using Playstation 4. Tyler, tell me about the Playstation thing.
They encrypted stuff though Playstation and talked across the games.
WOOD: Well, there are theories that they were utilizing apps that a lot of your kids use like what that encrypt messages or they were using the
Playstation and going into hidden rooms and some of the games actually can encrypt messages.
PINSKY: Oh, they`re going to be able to or is security going to be able to crack that?
WOOD: Possibly. But probably not.
PINSKY: Not. Yes, ma`am?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I`m not saying that we should round up people and things like that and I`m usually am for inclusion, but in a case like
this, I don`t agree with letting everybody in.
PINSKY: Hey, here`s what.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wait, wait, wait I have one more thing to say. There`s a millionaire that offered his private island to send the refuges to his
private island. Why is our government not looking at other solutions like that? But they`re encrypting things.
PINSKY: Shipping refugees to private islands is what America has become?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, it`s better than having -- it`s better than getting 2,000 people shot?
ODUOLOWU: When does it stop? So hold on a second. Do they then ship called (ph) black people because they say that we do crime? Do they then shot
Latinos?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re taking to step further.
ODUOLOWU: No, I`m talking with a logical step is.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You need to deal with the situation as it is right now. They are taking guns and they feel like they have nothing left to live
for. So you cannot.
ODUOLOWU: OK, show me what a terrorist looks like.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: Wait, wait
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We got million refugees.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: But here`s the deal.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A million people that in the country.
PINSKY: Hey, listen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where there have been treated horribly in they mind. Also they have anything to live for. That`s why they`re strapping bombs on
and going out and (inaudible).
PINSKY: Lisa, hang on, hang on, hang on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not everybody, not everybody.
PINSKY: But here`s (inaudible).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m against Muslim.
PINSKY: All right, I know you`re not. And I`m going to say something that`s going to be on your side. So give me a chance, give me a chance here.
Here`s the point. I hate the slippery slope argument. It drives me insane when someone says slippery slope because it`s not a slippery slope. It was
a slippery slope when our beloved President Abraham Lincoln took away the constitutional privilege coverage of Habeas Corpus. It was a slippery
slope, it was necessary for the survival of this country and he gave it back when it was safe again. Why can`t we think that way again?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
PINSKY: Why can`t we take that?
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: In this kind of nature to fight this fight.
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: Dr. Drew.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let people in that are encoding video games and targeting teenager saying join us now. It`s a illogical to let suicide
bombers in. It illogical.
(CROSSTALK)
[21:20:07] ODUOLOWU: Show me what the suicide bomber looks like. That`s all I want to know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are so many islands. There are so many billionaires that are out there that have Private Island.
PINSKY: All right. Now (inaudible) island.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t think letting in people are going to (inaudible).
ODUOLOWU: Show me what a terrorist looks like and I`ll be on your side. Show me the poster.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don`t know even know what they looked like that`s why.
PINSKY: OK, so here`s the deal. This must stop. This must stop. Obviously people are let me a line here. We must stop and there we go. So, we`ll keep
this going. We can only go -- it`s obviously a very hot topic and something that has us all reasonably upset. Reasonably so. So stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TED CRUZ, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: To bring in tens of thousands of Syrian Muslim refugees to America to settle them here where among them could well
be ISIS terrorist waging Jihad and murder Americans.
PRES. BARACK OBAMA, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We do not close our hearts to these victims of such violence.
[21:25:02] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is wrong. He took an oath to protect and defend this country. There simply is not a way to vet these refugees
OBAMA: And somehow start equating the issue of refugees with the issue of terrorism.
LINDSEY GRAHAM, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Anybody coming to America needs to be vetted and vetted well but we can`t shut off Syria, people being raped
and murdered.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Tyler, Judy, Segun, Evy, Lisa and Ernie.
President Obama took some fire for those remarks about what this country should do in response to these attacks. Let`s look at it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: There have been a few who suggested that we should put large numbers of U.S. troops on the ground. That would be a mistake.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So Ernie, are President are saying no boots on the ground and allow Syrians to settle in this country. You disagree.
WHITE: I totally disagree. The President today also said that the biggest threat to America is global warming. Not terrorism. Bernie Sanders said the
biggest threat to America is global warming and that climate change is the reason we`re having so much terrorism. I can`t believe that we don`t have
any common sense. Until we get this under control, there`s no reason to bring 200,000 Syrian refugees here. We have to get this under control.
PINSKY: And Lisa, Bernie Sanders did say that today. That people (inaudible) that.
BLOOM: That`s because climate change is real. It`s upon us. It`s human cause. And it`s causing mass.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: But Lisa, this country got survive long enough to do something about global warming. We`re best hope for the global warming problem.
BLOOM: Well, we need to do something about climate change. It`s not a joke. It`s real.
PINSKY: No, he said it`s the best hope for it. I`m not China isn`t the one you want in charge of that. I`m just saying. We got to survive to make it
to able to do something about it.
BLOOM: OK, it`s not but climate change. Climate change is not a punch line. Climate change is a huge problem. Yes, it because it destabilizes countries
all over the world. It causes drought, it causes deforestation, which causes mass poverty.
WHITE: But Islamic terrorist are bombing us because of climate change.
BLOOM: In part that is part of the.
WHITE: This is what wrong with our country. This is what`s wrong with our country.
ODUOLOWU: Ernie, Enrie, don`t simplify what she`s actually saying. When you have climate change and crops fail and you have people that are in famine,
then they`re going to look to do anything possible. Because there`s a correlation to that. I`m not saying it`s the only problem.
PINSKY: Hey, I got it.
ODUOLOWU: I`m not saying it`s not only problem.
PINSKY: There is a scenario where what happened in Syria was related to crop failures and famine and people moving into cities and there`s a story.
A version of the story where global warming had a role to play in all this. To say it caused it, I think it`s a bit of a stretch. Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I know we have at least seven states in the United States who decided they are not going to participate in allowing the
Syrian refugees.
PINSKY: Correct.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: . to come and be settle there.
PINSKY: Yeah.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can understand their fear. So for people in those states because we know they got firearms, do you suggest that they fire
back if something happens and they`re in a terrorist situation like that?
PINSKY: Evy, so this is a question of everyone arming up. What do we do with those kinds of feelings which I`m personally I`m shocked that I have.
WHITE: Because there are some many southern states.
PINSKY: Go ahead.
POUMPOURAS: This is a concern with arming up. Now we`re going to have conflict between one another and hate crimes and people using weapons to
defend themselves. I want to point something out. The difference between terrorism and climate change is that terrorism is imminent, OK. Climate
change is serious and severe. I absolutely agree. But the terrorism issue is immigrant. Excuse eminent.
Now, we have to look at that, we do allow individuals to come into the U.S. through -- do we take refugees, that we absolutely will have individuals
who will integrate into these people that are true supporters of ISIS. It`s just going to happen. There`s no possible way to screen them. You`re kind
of stuck in the middle. Do we not take these people in who do legitimately need our help, you know, go against what the American fabric is. But if we
do so at the same time we have to be comfortable in knowing that we will absolutely allow through these people certain individuals that come in that
have anger and hate and that are supporters of ISIS into the U.S.
BLOOM: What about the children. What about the baby dying on the beach because he`s a refugee? What about women who are half of the population and
who are very rarely terrorists? Can we let them come?
PINSKY: Uou made the point. You said -- what did you say in green room.
BLOOM: If you want to be rationale and logical, let`s keep out men between 15 and 25 and let the rest of them come in.
PINSKY: Judy, see where -- well, she that and it`s not illogical what you`re saying. But it`s maybe not fair.
HO: Well, it`s based on some of the statistics that we know about these terrorists.
PINSKY: Well, show you. I saw a list today of the 50 or so terrorists that have been arrested. ISIS Associated arrests in the United States and 90
percent of them were between the age of 20 and 24.
HO: Right.
PINSKY: Which is again disaffected young people.
HO: Right.
PINSKY: People trying to find a direction in life. I believe that these people will get indoctrinated the way cults indoctrinate people. We`ll talk
about that specifically. You agree with that, yes?
[21:30:09] HO: I do.
PINSKY: And the other population the 10 percent was 40 year old psychopaths.
ODUOLOWU: Right.
HO: That`s right. Those are people who had a long history or ready from childhood until they`re adulthood where they`ve had anti-social tendencies.
They probably acted on different ways or Dr. Drew. They see themselves as ringleaders of this organization and they`re the one who`re helping these
disenfranchise young men to has something to believe in, while they`re forming their frontal lobes and deciding what to do with their lives.
They`ve have already infiltrated them and told them this is actually their purpose in life and to give it up for this purpose.
PINSKY: And eternal happiness and also. Yes, ma`am?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It comes back to the question should we let in the refugees or not. I just heard you say there or the lady up there said
there`s no way of screening them. So how.
PINSKY: No way of screening out amongst of the refugees.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
PINSKY: People that are going to be Jihadists.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Exactly. So I ask even a question should let them in here or not? It`s very unfortunate that going on over there. But they just
as well come over here and make what`s happening over there happen in here.
WOOD: I`m not sure that`s entirely true. There are potentially some ways and often times.
PINSKY: Of screening.
WOOD: Of screening.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
WOOD: Often times people who`re going to do acts such as terrorism. They`re on social media and they`re post things and a lot of times that social
media is available to law enforcement. So there are ways of doing -- of conduct the screening.
PINSKY: So I think what I hear is saying is we shouldn`t give up on our principles of allowing people in because we may come up with a way to
satisfactorily screen. I`ve got to next. They behead, they burn people alive. What kind of fatalism (ph) has that potential and how these people
indoctrinate them. I`ll talk to an expert about that after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: These are killers with fantasies of glory who are very savvy when it comes to social media and are able to infiltrate the minds of not just
Iraqis or Syrians but disaffected individuals around the world.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These people are doing these horrible things in the name of your religion. What do you think of that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a false, it`s a false.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s false, he tells me. That`s false. To kill an innocent in the name of Islam is hell. You`re going to hell.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They won`t win. They won`t win.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What are they going to do after that? Like are they going to bomb other cities, like Eiffel tower, what`s going to be next? It
just like I`m afraid.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That`s the thought bubble over everyone`s mind and the President is right, they`re infiltrating the minds of young people. How do they do this?
How do they recruit new members? I postulate they are taking it from the play book of any cult or gang you can think of.
Back with Tyler, Judy, Segun, Evy, and Lisa. The Atlantic report of that Islamic state "Has attracted psychopaths and adventure seekers drawn
largely from the disaffected populations of the Middle East and Europe.
But Judy, I would they`re drilling right on end to the same population here as we talk about a few minutes ago.
HO: That`s right. There is a parallel, a mirror population if you will. And they`re looking for something to leave believe in and looking for a
direction in their life. And these people can very persuasive Dr. Drew. They have this down. They know what to say and how to capture those people
who are really lost and maybe not getting what they need from their family and friends and they`re giving them something to believe in a community the
same way that cults give people this type of psychological unity.
PINSKY: With that in mind, I brought Hoyt Richards, he`s a former Cult member and Filmmaker. Hoyt, tell us how this is like other cult behavior.
HOYT RICHARDS, FMR. CULT MEMBER & FILMMAKER: Well, you know, the way it works with any sort of cult that you`re get involved with, you don`t joint
a cult. You know, no one ever tells you it`s a cult. It`s a bait and switch maneuver. So, what you sign up for versus what it actually is, are very,
very different. In my case it took me 15, 20 years to figure that out.
So, you know, the way you`re being manipulated to get involved is you basically are being manipulated by all of your most noble attributes that
want to help your fellow man, become a better person help your planet. So you`re sign up for things that you thought would be assessable in your
lifetime and they`re basically acting toward you as if how can you not see this is what you`re supposed to do with your life. What great potential you
have. Look at how you`re bright and how much light you carry and if you would be able to get the right training which we have for you, you know,
you could do incredible things.
PINSKY: And they bring in the afterlife and, you know, all superlative of the very.
RICHARDS: I mean, it varies from cult to cult because, you know, as I always say the person out of the cult is reflective of the cult leader so
to speak but techniques in which you, the way you manipulate someone or you influence someone of which identical in every cult.
PINSKY: How do they get to the point of such violence?
RICHARDS: Well, once you`ve kind of in essence gone through the love bombing, OK, where you kind of gotten so excited that you said I`m in. I`m
going to do this. I`m signing up. Let me be a part of this. That`s when the training begins. And the training for lack of a better description is
really just abuse. We`re basically saying like, OK, well now that you have taken on this ambition to become a great potential spiritual leader on some
level, on what you`re going to have to eat a few, you know, bad cookies to get there. And before you know your whole diet is this type of bad things
you`re taking in because ultimately you believe that if I just do this work, I`ll become something great.
PINSKY: And I think sometimes -- I`ve heard other people that survive it and come back say they are almost high when they`re out in this state.
RICHARDS: Well, that`s it. I mean, it`s your ego on some level. Because you`re basically saying that you had this potential that you never dreamed
is possible.
[21:40:06] PINSKY: How do you know if your child is being radicalized? (Inaudible).
RICHARDS: Well, their behavioral change without question. I mean, and I can say as human -- we`re very good compartmentalized and you can hide a lot.
But ultimately, you know, I would say the most common thing is the sense of humor goes out the window because everything becomes very serious. Now the
fate of the world lies in balance.
So all of a sudden that`s one of the first things that you`ll see that they`ll be more secretive. And I would say the most important thing though
is you realize that you just have to know that the person that you saw before is somehow now not there and when you really address them about
what`s happening, that`s where you get a guarded response you have never seen before and that`s when you know something is up.
PINKSY: Evy, does this sound familiar to you?
POUMPOURAS: You know, I`m actually conducted interviews overseas and here in the U.S. on individuals who were terrorists, had terrorist ties. There
are approximately 32,000 members of ISIS we estimate. 10,000 of these members are ideologists they`re the one who truly believe in the cause. So
they`re not all psychopaths. A lot them actually believe, they believe in what they`re doing, they believe that it`s right. They do see it the way we
see it, OK?
And the other thing is it`s a grooming process. Now the rest of the individuals that do join tend to be either forced to join out of fear or
coercion. But again, it`s such an in-depths grooming process, it`s making people believe and also the idea of finding something that you`re willing
to die for. When we as individuals we`re all searching for meaning in our life. And when you find meaning in your life when you`re willing to die for
something, when you`re willing to sacrifice for something and I think that`s what they kind of grasp onto. He my life has meaning. I`m willing to
fight for this cause. It`s not a mundane thing where I go to my 9:00 to 5:00 job. And I just do this. Who am I, what I mean.
And also it`s the excitement. It`s excitement and thrill. Somebody is offering you a job so to speak to come play with weapons, grenades and
guns, to give you a cause to fight for, to die for. There`s nothing more attractive than that. Who does it attract? Younger people.
PINSKY: It`s been brainwash. That`s a brainwash I guess.
ODUOLOWU: But Dr. Drew, with what Evy said and what this gentleman said they`re target kids that have nothing to live for.
PINSKY: Yes.
ODUOLOWU: The disadvantaged.
PINSKY: Yes
ODUOLOWU: So OK, take me. I work with kids. I`m in high schools. What do I tell kids? What do I look for? Because.
PINSKY: Great question. Hoyt, I think.
ODUOLOWU: Yeah, what do I look for.
RICHARDS: That the thing is when it comes to cultic influence, there`s not a profile, all right. Because the reality is if I don`t know what I want to
do with my life, I like to stay to people if I don`t have game plan and I come across anyone who`s really excited about their game plan, which sounds
a lot better than my no plan and resonates at all with anything that`s interesting to me, I will listen.
PINSKY: But isn`t education the answer to those to get in the way of that plan?
RICHARDS: I believe if you were able to basically start some sort of program in teenage years, it`s just influence techniques the way you sell
someone a car, the same way you like when a cub scout comes and you end up with candy bars you don`t like there are all sorts of ways we get
manipulated without us knowing thinking we`re being polite or just doing what.
PINSKY: Awareness of what that Segun, whereas what those techniques are.
ODUOLOWU: Could it be just giving them something that`s an alternative?
RICHARDS: Of course.
ODUOLOWU: I think better than whatever this no plan you describe this.
RICHARDS: Something as simple as knowing that feeling good too fast can be dangerous.
PINSKY: You`re probably right. The things take hard work and there are ways to be purposeful with great meaning without.
RICHARDS: Exactly.
PINSKY: . going into something that nobody else knows about that only they selected you for.
RICHARDS: But then the other side of it is this idea that you`re joining something that`s bigger than you could ever dream of. That is she`s very
accurate. That`s very true of how you get sucked in. Because, you know, you don`t think you`re going to do something that important in your life. Like
no one wakes up and thinks, oh I think I`ll become a great spiritual life and live like Jesus, right. But when someone is looking at you like how can
you not see this is what you`re supposed to do.
PINSKY: And specially you`re it`s a Judy said that, right.
HO: Yes, exactly here`s really part of it appeal to your ego.
PINSKY: Right absolutely.
HO: Like you just said it really make you believe that you can do special and when people act like they believe in you, you would do anything to keep
that going and be leaders for other people.
PINSKY: Next, our own Erica America was in Paris as the attacks unfold her account when we comeback.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Well, many viewers, many Americans, They say most of my staff on late night host John Oliver had the perfect response to the terror
attackers in Paris. Here is part of it from "Last Week Tonight" on HBO.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN OLIVER, "LAST WEEK TONIGHT" HOST: After necessary and appropriate moments of silence, I`d like to offer you a moment of premium cable
profanity. We know this attack was carried out by gigantic (inaudible) holes unconscionable, flaming (inaudible), possibly working with other
(inaudible). Definitely working in service of an ideology of pure (inaudible).
Second, and this goes almost without saying, (inaudible) these (inaudible), if i may say, sideways. And third, it`s important to remember nothing about
what these (inaudible) are trying to do is going to work. France is going to endure. And I`ll tell you why. If you`re in a war of culture and
lifestyle with France, good (inaudible) luck.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Slow clap. Just saying. Anybody agree, disagree Lisa.
BLOOM: That was funny. Well said.
ODUOLOWU: Well said. He`s absolutely right. France will endure just like our American values have to endure. We can`t change who we are because
crazy people want to do crazy things. I know you don`t like slippery slopes but when we give up who we are, the terrorists win.
[21:50:08] PINSKY: But what is wrong with giving up in the interest of prudence for a specified period of time and then restoring that?
HO: Dr. Drew, this has been going on.
PINSKY: You not like Abraham Lincoln, didn`t you like the way he prosecuted the civil war.
ODUOLOWU: Well, he`s the thing but I also like American justice system that says rather one innocent man be jailed and let 10 guilty men go free. We
believe in.
PINSKY: I understand. He overruled that for a few years during a war.
ODUOLOWU: And he was shot in the head.
HO: Dr. Drew when is the prespecified time.
PINSKY: By American room.
HO: Because we had these threats for a very long period of time. That`s been told to us again and again by the president, by other world leaders.
This is been something they`ve been watching for years. Possibly an entire decade and some of them slip through. That is the way that it was presented
to us. So when do we close our borders? How long would that go on for if we`re going to have to watch this for another 10 to 15 years?
PINSKY: All right, let me bring in our own Erica America Z100 Radio Personality. She was a psychotherapist and, Erica, you were there when this
all went down. You were I was getting, I was following your Instagram getting more and more jealous of your trip to Paris and then I thought, oh
my god is Erica OK.
ERICA AMERICA, Z100 RADIO PERSONALITY. Thank you so much, Dr. Drew. You actually reached out to me while I was there. You know it`s kind of
amazing. It was such a crazy experience because I went by myself. I had probably like the -- one the best weeks of my life. Went alone on a trip,
you know, kind of explored the whole city as you saw I Instagramed everything and really tried to share the experience of the amazing culture
that is Paris with everyone. And I think people really enjoy it. On my last night, which was Friday the 13th and, you know, of all places in Paris,
it`s a big city, I was all over the place. I returned to Notre Dame where I went the first night. I went to another neighborhood.
I just wanted to go to McDonald`s randomly. At McDonald and (inaudible) Erica. Yes, it`s a long story. But I was by myself. I didn`t feel like
doing a long dinner. So I`m just like I`m just going to McDonald`s in Republic in the square called Republic.
And so I go. I start walking to Republic. And I just start to see just sirens and lots of cop cars and stuff and, you know, in New York you see
this all the time. So I just thought that basically it was like a fire or something. So I start to walk like, you know, through the square toward the
McDonald`s and I get closer and closer toward it. And then I see that it`s all taped off and, you know, just more and more sirens. So I go up to
someone and said do you speak English? Do you know what`s going on? They said "No, I don`t." So I said "OK, all right. I guess I`ll just go like
over the McDonald`s on the other side of the square. So I go back to the other McDonald`s.
PINSKY: She was hell bent on going to McDonald`s, but Erica.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She wanted the quarter pound. I don`t (inaudible).
PINSKY: But you got. But to tell us -- cut to the part where you became aware of what happened.
AMERICA: Think inside more and more sirens, craziness. All of a sudden I start get messages from somebody like do, you know, what`s going on? Are
you okay? A guy manager comes up and says you`re locked in. I said to someone, a French person, what`s going on. They said like Charlie, you
know, thing that happened. It is happening again right now. And we can`t leave. And at that moment and told you this Dr. Drew which is little PTSD
moment. I saw that terrorist were coming in to the McDonald because they said we can`t leave and there`s a terrorist attack going on. So I kind of
flipped out. I was sort of like half crying. I didn`t know what to do. I just kind of, you know, fix my thing and eventually 20 minutes later we
were allowed to leave.
There all just nobody knew what to do. Everybody was kind of all over the place. I ran all of the way back to my hotel. And I just hid in my hotel
room till the next day.
PINSKY: And Erica I got to cut you off there.
AMERICA: Yeah.
PINSKY: I`m running out of time, but I do -- I thank you for sharing the story and I`m so glad you made it through without any adverse experience.
Other than the PSTD of believing this was it and terrorists would rush into that McDonald`s as part of the whole thing who knew again this a thing this
situation. They aren`t defined when you`re in the middle of it. Thanks, Erica. I`ve got to go to audience here. Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ISIS made a statement that their attack on Paris was a retaliation for France`s continued attack on their brothers in arms and I
don`t believe you can stop violence with violence because it`s just a vicious circle. I think the best thing need to do is to try to find a way
to use diplomacy for peace.
WOOD: I`m not sure that that`s going to entirely work, because you`re talking about a completely different culture with completely different
values, who views things very differently.
PINSKY: I wish we could have a peaceful way out but I think that.
WOOD: I wish there was, too.
PINSKY: May be unrealistic. I have to go. We have a tribute.
[21:54:51] Be right with you after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: We have been discussing the tragic attacks on civilians in Paris. And I appreciate everyone`s participation in this conversation. That is the
only way we`re going to get through this by continuing to dialogue, continuing to values and cherish the value that we have and amongst
ourselves navigate through this. I`m showing you now faces of those we know we lost. The victims whom have been identified so far. I just want to say
to the family and friends of loved ones of the victims that this will not be forgotten. We are in pain. We are angry. And we conduct possibly the
depth of your misery but we`re here standing with you. No solis but we`ll not let this go.
Please, reminder follow us on Snapchat, DVR us.
[22:00:01] You can see us any time that way. I want to thank everyone for participating in the show today. We`ll see you tomorrow. That will do it
for tonight`s episode.
END
