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Dr. Drew
Rachel Dolezal Publicly Admits She is White; Video of Chicago Student Bullying Substitute Teacher Goes Viral; Video of Handcuffed 7-Year- Old Student Causes Outrage. Aired 9-10p
Aired November 19, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DR. DREW PINSKY: Tonight Rachel Dolezal admits publicly for the first time, well, what everyone already knew, guess what everybody, hold your
breath, she`s white. Plus chaos in the classroom, a seven-year-old -- seven-year-old handcuffed at school for acting up a bit. It all starts
right now at the top of the feed.
After months of controversy, Rachel Dolezal finally, in an interview on the talk show, The Real, admitted what everyone -- well, we`ve just been
waiting for. Guess what? She`s white.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ADRIENNE BAILON, COHOST OF THE DAYTIME TALK SHOW "THE REAL": Why not say you`re white, but you identify as being black and you -- you don`t seem to
answer the question straight on.
RACHEL DOLEZAL: My -- my question to you is why not identify how you identify. Like why not give me the right to identify how I identify. I
give everybody the same -- you know.
JEANNIE MAI, COHOST OF THE DAYTIME TALK SHOW "THE REAL": I think it`s kind of hard because you`re not black. So when you identify with it, there`s a
disconnect. You weren`t born black, so when you say you are black, it makes it hard for people to understand where you`re coming from.
RACHEL DOLEZAL, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: Right and that`s why I said -- I -- I acknowledge I`m -- I was biologically born white, to white parents.
RUTHANNE DOLEZAL, RACHEL`S BIOLOGICAL MOTHER: Rachel was like we were, interested in ethnicity and diversity and we had many friends in our
circles that were of different ethnicities, but she did not ever refer to herself or anything that indicated that she thought of herself as black.
RACHEL DOLEZAL: We are all entitled to be --
BAILON: Correct.
RACHEL DOLEZAL: -- exactly who we are and to identify as we want.
MAI: Rachel --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joining me tonight, Samantha Schacher host of Pop Trigger on Hulu.com, Rolonda Watts host of the Podcast Rolonda on Demand. Mike will
you please sit down. Mike Catherwood, my "Loveline" co-host -- oh my goodness, KABC Radio 790 A.M. here in Los Angeles, and Loni Love standup
comic, co-host of "The Real."
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: She was there when Dolezal finally admitted that she was white. And, Loni, first of all, I just love the look on your face while she is
spinning around, avoiding and being evasive. It is just like, "Are you white or not?" What finally broke through?
LONI LOVE, CO--HOST OF "THE REAL" TALK SHOW: You know what? It took us 30 minutes for a white woman in America to admit that she was white. I am
like, "What?"
(LAUGHING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: What is with --?
LOVE: You know?
PINSKY: What is with that?
LOVE: Seriously!
PINSKY: What is that? Seriously, what is it?
LOVE: I mean, you know what -- and this is the thing. Everybody is like, "Well, she has the right." Yes, she has the right; but at certain point,
she was not telling us that she was white. And, all we wanted was her to acknowledge it, to acknowledge her parents.
PINSKY: Yes. And, you guys -- listen, you guys -- I was admired the way you guys did it. You kept going.
LOVE: I was tired.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: I could tell. Listen. And, remember when Matt Lauer interviewed her.
LOVE: Yes.
PINSKY: He should not have allowed her to be evasive. And, you guys are like, "Yes, but you are not black, you are white." And, so somebody
finally, I think, said something like, "OK, the box you check when somebody says black or white", which one --
LOVE: Right. Right.
PINSKY: Is that you that said that?
LOVE: Right. You know what? This is the thing, though, boo. OK -- because he is my boo. I call him my boo, right? She had a really good
lace front wig. I like that. So, she got some black in her. She --
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: All right --
LOVE: That lace -- Rolonda, do not act like you do not know what I am talking about, Rolonda.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: So, Rolonda --
LOVE: Samantha do not know, but Rolonda -- and, Mike, I know you do not know.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: So, Rolonda -- She is always where I end up with you every time.
(LAUGHING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HOST OF "POP TRIGGER" ON HULU.COM: Oh my God.
PINSKY: It is where I end up with you every time. I do not know what to do.
ROLONDA WATTS, HOST OF "ROLONDA ON DEMAND" PODCAST: Dr. Drew, what are we doing? We are living in a world where we accept one sister, who claims to
be a woman who still has a penis and then we -- and then -- so why can`t we accept a white woman who identifies as black?
(AUDIENCE CHEERING AND APPLAUDING)
SCHACHER: No. No.
PINSKY: Well, that what it is -- Well, no. But, Rolonda, I think that is at the core of the political correct energy around us. We are not allowed
to go, "Ah, hold on a second." You know, but it`s a different issue, I think, is it not? It is a co-op thing of somebody`s experience.
WATTS: Well, I think there are so many things going on there. I mean she has done anything but Dolezal. She has inspired and ignited a heck of a
conversation. What does it mean to be black? Is it a skin color? Is it something in your heart, in your soul?
LOVE: Right.
WATTS: What does it mean to be black and what is so wrong with her saying she is black?
LOVE: Nothing is wrong with that --
WATTS: It is a beautiful culture.
LOVE: But the point is, is that she went to Howard University, you know, under the -- under it being black, which that could have been to a real
black woman and I think that is what a lot of African-American women were upset about. I mean, she supposedly, allegedly made allegations that there
were hate crimes against her, which the FBI dropped --
PINSKY: Because she was white.
WATTS: Right.
PINSKY: Because she was white.
WATTS: Now, listen. Now, that is wrong. Not telling the truth --
LOVE: Exactly.
WATTS: -- and taking advantage of government dollars on some lies is wrong --
SCHACHER: But, Rolonda --
WATTS: But I think there needs to be a deeper conversation that she needs to face some truth but so do we, America. So, do we, America. We have
some serious things to examine too.
SCHACHER: I get on board with that. But, where I take issue with Rachel, of course, aside from the fact that she is identifying as black, but it is
what you said. It is her constant lying. This woman, I am not a doctor, but she is a pathological liar. It goes back from her saying she grew up
in South Africa in a teepee killing animals with a bow and arrow. Not true. Never even visited South Africa.
PINSKY: But, she did say that, right?
SCHACHER: She said that --
PINSKY: You are not making that up.
SCHACHER: -- stood by it --
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: -- and stood by it and stood by it. And, that is the problem, Dr. Drew, she continues to spin these lies out of control to the point
where it is almost as if she believes she -- she does not know the difference between reality and fiction.
PINSKY: Well, that is the part that bothers me. I mean, Mike --
MICHAEL CATHERWOOD, DR. DREW`S CO--HOST ON "LOVELINE" AND KABC RADIO: Yes.
PINSKY: Mental health -- what are you laughing about?
CATHERWOOD: I just wonder what she says when she gets pulled over. "I am white. I am white, I swear, officer. Look. Look at my driver`s license."
(LAUGHING)
WATTS: And, I think that is part of the issue too is that who gets the right to be black when it is convenient.
CATHERWOOD: Yes.
PINSKY: Right.
LOVE: Exactly.
PINSKY: That is right. And, I think that is why it is somewhat unfair to pull the Bruce Jenner -- Caitlyn Jenner thing into this, because that is
not a convenient issue. That is a deep psychological --
LOVE: Can you please tell us why? Because I was trying to explain that and I was trying to, you know, filter you and channel you, but I could not
really do it correctly. So, why it is a difference between Bruce Jenner and her?
PINSKY: Bruce Jenner has a -- Caitlyn Jenner has a brain condition that has her seeing herself different -- than she actually -- different. It is
hard to explain. It is hard to explain. Because you have to almost diagram it. It is hard for a brain that is not struggling with this to
explain it.
But, at this most core, the most basic sketch, it is a condition where that is a self-concept. The gender self-concept as opposed to a convenient
concept. He, actually, when he was a male did not feel -- imagine -- do you like being female?
LOVE: Yes. I love it. You know, I love it.
PINSKY: OK.
LOVE: You know, I love it.
PINSKY: I do, too. I love that you are a female, too. Can you imagine waking up every day and hating that and feeling like something is wrong
with that? It is different than, "Hey, I think I am black."
SCHACHER: And, lying about all other things in their life.
PINSKY: Yes.
WATTS: But, even Rachel said -- she said, "Sometimes how we feel is more powerful than how we are born."
PINSKY: But the problem is --
SCHACHER: But you believe her, considering all her lies?
WATTS: Well, I was just saying what she quoted.
SCHACHER: She has so many lies, Rolonda.
WATTS: Now, the lies are wrong.
SCHACHER: The lies are so many.
PINSKY: But, I do not lie. And, this is back to what I was sort of addressing to Mike was, in my definition of mental health is being able to
manage reality on reality`s terms. And, we have come into a time in this country where reality begs no issue.
WATTS: I know.
PINSKY: We are supposed to ignore reality and just go with whatever theoretical concert --
CATHERWOOD: Well -- and also --
PINSKY: -- you like to attach yourself to.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
CATHERWOOD: We absolutely -- we absolutely would not be having this conversation if from the start she said, "Hey, I`m -- I`m -- I was born
white, but I look at myself as a black person."
LOVE: Thank you.
WATTS: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: "I was raised around many black friends." And, you know, I remember Kid Rock was on "Loveline" a long time ago and he said, "Everyone
in Detroit is a little black."
(LAUGHING)
CATHERWOOD: And, what he meant by that -- you know, what he meant by that is that -- that is the powerful aspect of the culture of it, which is a big
difference than lying on job applications --
WATTS: That is right.
CATHERWOOD: -- and college applications.
LOVE: Thank you.
PINSKY: Yes, ma`am.
LOVE: Yes!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Let us just face the fact. She alienated both races. She disowned her own race and she lied to another
pretending to be something that she is not.
PINSKY: But, she also co-opt -- by doing this, she co-opted the experience and I say -- marginalized say Rolonda`s experience. It`s like whatever --
She says, "I walked in your shoes. I did. Just because I said I did."
WATTS: Yes.
PINSKY: That is different. "I said I did" is different than "I did".
CATHERWOOD: Well, we`ve been -- we`ve been co-opting black culture in this country for like 80 years.
PINSKY: Absolutely.
CATHERWOOD: Now, Elvis Presley made himself an American icon by, you know, co-opting --
PINSKY: A 100 percent but he did not say -- maybe that is more dishonest. He did not say that is what he was doing.
CATHERWOOD: Right.
PINSKY: In a weird way, that is why I am glad we are having this conversation, because it gets complicated when you peel the onion. We will
keep it up. Later, teachers under attack, classrooms becoming violent. Why is this so -- look at this. This is just somebody`s classroom. No big
deal. Just before lunch class. Back after this.
(LAUGHING)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RACHEL DOLEZAL: This is something that I have actually cared about since I was a young child. And, I have been involved with social justice work
since middle school, high school, college. It is part of my life work.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFF HUMPHREY, KXLY REPORTER: Are you African-American?
RACHEL DOLEZAL: I don`t -- I don`t understand the question of -- I did tell you that yes, that is my dad. He was not able to come in January.
HUMPHREY: Are your parents --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUTHANNE DOLEZAL: We hope that she will come to terms with truth and reality and she will make an apology.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Rachel Dolezal finally admits, shocking, she was born white.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LONI COOMBS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: She appeared on the talk show called "The Real".
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RACHEL DOLEZAL: I acknowledge I was biologically born white to white parents.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
MAI: That is all we wanted.
RACHEL DOLEZAL: But I identify as black.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: She got a standing ovation, Rachel Dolezal, for admitting she was white. She spent years living as a black woman even becoming president of
NAACP chapter. I am back with Sam, Rolonda, Mike, Loni. Now, on Loni`s show "The Real," the matter of Rachel`s pregnancy came up yesterday.
The video was posted on Instagram. Just check out Rachel`s expression when Loni kind of --- I think Loni --- take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAI: You are pregnant. Congratulations.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
LOVE: So, I guess the baby black, huh?
(LAUGHING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: So, what happened at the end of the segment? I mean tell me what kind of conversation went on at the end.
LOVE: No. What I was trying to do -- see, I look at you all the time, Dr. Drew and I was trying to lightening the mood. You know, Mike --
PINSKY: Yes. Yes.
CATHERWOOD: Thank you, Loni. Yes.
LOVE: And, so, it was so tense and after we got her to admit, "Yes, I am white," then I was like, "OK, now we need to move on." And, then you know,
we wanted to celebrate the pregnancy, but me being a comedian, I was like "The baby black, huh?" And, she was like --
(LAUGHING)
CATHERWOOD: You know, not only -- not only was that a great line, but it kind of further crystallized what her problem has been since the beginning.
PINSKY: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: Is that she does not have any connection to --
PINSKY: Reality.
CATHERWOOD: -- to what is really going on.
PINSKY: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: Most people, regardless of the situation would have been able to laugh at themselves there, because it was all in good fun. It was like,
this divorced kind of idea that would just stare at you. When that one reporter asked her if she was African-American, you might as well have
asked her "Are you a kangaroo?"
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Right. Yes. Yes. That is right. No. That is right. Yes, ma`am.
CATHERWOOD: She was just blown away.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I wish she would have just stayed a white woman, because we really could use some white people to help us out.
We really did not need her to become black. She would have been far more effective as a white woman fighting for civil rights. I mean --
PINSKY: That is a great point.
SCHACHER: That is a great point.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I mean -- we`ve always needed people of other races to fight for our race. I do not know why she felt she
needed to embody us. We needed you to stay white. So, if she want to go back, we would appreciate it.
(LAUGHING)
LOVE: Get it, girl.
PINSKY: But, you know, she actually --
(LAUGHING)
LOVE: You ain`t ready. You ain`t ready for this conversation.
PINSKY: No, I am ready.
LOVE: You ain`t ready.
PINSKY: I am ready. I just got to take a deep breath, that is all. She did have some real success as the president of the NACCP Chapter.
LOVE: Yes.
PINSKY: And, we should not take that away from her, right?
SCHACHER: We should not take it away from her.
LOVE: Yes.
SCHACHER: But, again, Dr. Drew, I mean when you look at -- because I watched interview after interview after interview of her. And, what is
interesting is when she lies, sometimes little tiny white lies that do not even make sense and then later she called out for them.
She continues to defend her lies. And, it reminded me a lot of completely different situation and different charges, but Jodi Arias. We remember
watching her on the stand ---
PINSKY: Very similar.
SCHACHER: -- and validating her lies and continuing to spin them and spin them and spin them, almost that she thinks that will convince everybody of
her lie. She does the same thing in her interviews.
PINSKY: I agree. The evasiveness really troubles me.
SCHACHER: But what does that suggest you?
PINSKY: Well, that there is a character style there. I do not want to give her a diagnosis. I do not know here, but I think you are accurate on
what you are observing. And, that what always bothered me about the interviews that were done with her that you guys did not do, and I admired
so much. People let her be evasive as opposed to go, "Stop with your b --- stop with that."
LOVE: That is because I was hungry, OK? After 20 minutes, I am like "Come on now, you got to give me something, OK?"
PINSKY: Yes. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I was going to agree with her. I think we should give a free pass, because for her to put herself on the line for
black people, that is big. But, there are some entertainers and politicians, who identify as black but won`t help black people. So, I
think we should give her a pass on that because that takes a lot of experience.
PINSKY: All right. All right. OK. Rolonda, what do you say?
WATTS: You know, I think what is so fascinating about this whole conversation is that, you know, there were so many people back in the day
who because of the degradation -- the degradation chose to live their lives as white people --
PINSKY: Yes.
WATTS: -- if they were light-skinned black.
PINSKY: Yes.
WATTS: Now, people go, "OK, we get that." Honey, I got that in my own family, OK? But, they were looked at as like we can understand, because
life as a black person is so tough, we can understand this. So, I think it is fascinating that people are going,"
Why would you choose to pass as black when you know the difficulties that you will face in life? So, maybe -- and the fact that she fought for
blacks as well. So, I am a little -- give her a little bit of a pass, too.
PINSKY: And, she did -- she adopted a former sibling and that is where she made a lot of connection with her feelings.
CATHERWOOD: Maybe she should like plead her case at the Apollo or something. How am I going to do --
(LAUGHING)
SCHACHER: But, Dr. Drew she --
CATHERWOOD: No. No.
SCHACHER: -- she adopted a former -- she adopted a former sibling but then told everybody that was her son, her biological black son.
PINSKY: Another lie. Yes. See, again, I do not --
WATTS: The lies.
PINSKY: Listen, everybody --
SCHACHER: Lie after lie after lie.
PINSKY: Yes. You know, when we get somebody sober, Mike --
CATHERWOOD: Yes.
PINSKY: -- or working on somebody`s mental health, first step rigorous honesty. If you got it, deal with reality and reality`s term. It is super
unhealthy to go through life with lies and distortion.
SCHACHER: Right.
CATHERWOOD: Right.
PINSKY: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I am a person of color, but at the same time, I do not speak on behalf of all people of color.
PINSKY: I am going to stop you. What color?
(LAUGHING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Huh? I am half Hawaiian, Belizean and Taino Indian.
PINSKY: OK. There we go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: And Irish --
PINSKY: Yes. OK.
(LAUGHING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Sorry. I am albino, myself.
PINSKY: But, listen, the Irish that we were talking -- Mike and I were talking on my radio show today about how other ethnicities have suffered at
the hands of the American establishment, Irish, Italians. Carolla and I were talking about this today, but go ahead, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: No, I -- the use of the term co-opt I think is kind of minimizing what she actually did, which was cultural
appropriation. Co-opting, there is a certain degree of agreement upon it. There was no agreement on this. She culturally appropriated another group,
by historically --
PINSKY: By co-opting, you mean the group must agree to her doing it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. Right.
PINSKY: OK. This is just her on her own unilaterally taking on a cultural.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. Which is also historically in America white culture tends to culturally appropriate other people, not
just blacks, the African-Americans, first nation people. My people, native Hawaiians, were made as caricatures as opposed to actual realistic and
honest portrayals of ourselves.
PINSKY: Got it. I think that -- And Asians have been the object of that. I think that is a great point.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Number two, there is a gender issue. There is a gender issue. I think more people are harking on her as a woman
versus if a man did it.
PINSKY: It would be worse.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes.
PINSKY: But, I think that sum of it is, again -- in the shadow of the Caitlyn Jenner thing, people start wondering what we are doing in this
politically correct world. Why we cannot occasionally step up and go "Hey, honey, you are white."
You know, I mean why we are in the P.C. world where you can`t do that, or you are risking -- you are taking risks if you actually call somebody what
they actually are, right? You feel that, Rolonda?
WATTS: Yes. I just feel like that -- I think the lies has what got in the way.
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: Yes.
WATTS: And, I think that if she have come out and said "Look, I am a white girl, but I love being a sister."
LOVE: Yes.
WATTS: I think the sisters would have said, "Girl, come on. Come on with it."
LOVE: Yes.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
WATTS: You know, that would have been --
PINSKY: Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: There are plenty of people in this nation that culturally identify as different cultures, if it is because
they are raised by that culture, if it is because most of their friends are of that culture. There are people in this nation, who identify as lizards
and as furrys and as --
(LAUGHING)
SCHACHER: That is right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: You know, we do not harp on them because it`s not -- you know, we don`t got, oh, the rabbits did not say it
was OK for you to identify as rabbits --
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: But you can argue -- I agree with you. I agree with your point.
LOVE: Oh Lord.
PINSKY: But, you can argue that maybe we should a little bit, like back off from our PCness a little bit. Loni, what do think when somebody
identify as it? You go, "Really?" "Go ahead change the (ph) pool, I do not care."
LOVE: Well, I mean we live in this great country of America. You could be whatever you want to be. We are not saying that.
PINSKY: That is right.
LOVE: All we saying is do not lie about it.
PINSKY: That is right.
LOVE: You know? And, let me tell you, just speaking on behalf of me and my co-hosts of "The Real." Thank you, Dr. Drew. Thank you, Rachel for
giving us this platform because we appreciate you and we wish you the best, girl.
PINSKY: That is right. That is right.
LOVE: OK? Right on.
PINSKY: And, be sure to watch Loni on "The Real" tomorrow. One of the reasons that I want you to watch her tomorrow is the following.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LOVE: Even if you are single, hang around smart people.
MAI: Yes.
BAILON: Yes.
LOVE: You know. Dr. Drew is my boo for a reason. OK?
MAI: Dr. Drew is so handsome and hot to me because of how smart he is.
LOVE: And, he is smart, too. And, he always teaches me something when I am with him. And, he always picks up the check that is why I love him. I
love you, boo.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
SCHACHER: Oh, yeah.
WATTS: We love that.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Watch her on "The Real." Watch her tomorrow. So, all right.
SCHACHER: How many times have you watched that?
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: I only have to watch it once. It fills me completely. Next up, I`ve got defenseless teachers in America`s classrooms. Why are violent
students getting away with this? Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: A student bullies and threatens a substitute teacher in Chicago. The video has gone viral. It is even more intense today. It is from 2011.
Here is more of it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE STUDENT: No, stop that. I told your (EXPLETIVE WORD).
(LAUGHING)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE STUDENT: No, wait. Wait. No.
(LAUGHING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE STUDENT: She going to say something about me. Do not ask me what my name is again.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE TEACHER: I need you to throw -- whatever you are throwing, just throw it away. I need you to throw it away. OK, young
lady, I am going to have to ask you to have a seat. I am going to have to ask you to have a seat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE STUDENT: You are on camera. I am fixing to smack a (EXPLETIVE WORDS) the whole bag of M&Ms.
(LAUGHING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHACHER: Wow!
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Rolonda and Mike. Joining us, Areva Martin, Attorney and Legal Analyst. Also, I have John Cardillo, WJNO Radio Host,
former NYPD Officer. Rolonda, what do you think about what that teacher did?
WATTS: I tell you, I do not know why she did not walk out the room and just leave it there.
PINSKY: That`s dereliction of duty. She hung in.
WATTS: She hung in and she -- I do not -- I do not know what I would do in that situation. But, what really concerns me is you are looking at these
young people, not one person stood up and said, "Hey, you all, stop this."
Not one person stood up. And, it is about the character of these young people, I think. Nobody stood up to defend the teacher, even nobody put
their foot down, this is wrong.
SCHACHER: Even worse than that, they were encouraging this guy. They were laughing. They were taunting her as well and it makes me think if this is
how they treat a substitute teacher, how are these kids treating other students at school? And that makes me think, OK, then what is the policy
at the school for bullying? Because, it seems like there is zero repercussion.
WATTS: That is right.
PINSKY: Mike.
CATHERWOOD: You know why hockey players are the nicest athletes? Because they police themselves. If you act out on line, they police each -- they
police each other. So, they do not act like crazy idiots going out to night clubs and punching women, the whole thing. And, this is what happens
with kids nowadays because attention is more important than anything.
You know, you can get on World Star Hip-Hop or you can get on Facebook with a viral video. Back when I was a terrible student prone to disrupting
class, the last thing any of the other terrible students wanted was more attention on us.
PINSKY: Right.
CATHERWOOD: They were like, "Dude, shut up."
PINSKY: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: "Don`t get us in trouble. We are just baked in the back of the classroom. If you do not make any noise, then we can just be OK."
PINSKY: Rolonda --
CATHERWOOD: And, nowadays, it is like -- like you get -- you get more appreciation for being a maniac.
PINSKY: Well, let me show you more of that video. The bullying continues. The teacher even tries to call for security. So, Sam there is some policy
here but take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE STUDENT: Give me the damn M&Ms.
(LAUGHING)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SUBSTITUTE TEACHER: I need you to have a seat. For those of you working on your assignment --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE STUDENT: Sit down.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE STUDENT: Can you do my assignment?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE STUDENT: Sit down. Sit down on your chair.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SUBSTITUTE TEACHER: Young man, I need you to go ahead and have a seat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE STUDENT: Sit down on your chair. Sit your (EXPLETIVE WORD) down on your chair.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SUBSTITUTE TEACHER: Have a seat. Can you get security?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE STUDENT: What do you need security for?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SUBSTITUTE TEACHER: Again, young man, you can have a seat.
(LAUGHING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE STUDENT: She sat down in her seat, though, right? She sat down in that seat, right? She sat down in that seat, though.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Want to make a comment?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I am utterly disgusted at that the video and I seen that video -- as an African-American male who grew up in
South L.A., education was the one thing that my grandparents and great grandmother instilled in us that they cannot take away from you.
And, you have these young kids, these cowards, throwing their free education away. That is ridiculous how he behave, number one to a woman,
but to an authority figure.
SCHACHER: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: And, the fact that those students did not -- were so desensitized. I come from an area where if we did not get
whooped by our parents, our neighbors whooped us and our neighbor`s parents whooped us.
I would have my mama come on to the school. That is what we need in the school. Those parents -- I wanted to jump in that TV screen and whoop him
myself.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: But, now we showed you a video a few months ago of a boy being whooped by a stranger. Stranger caught him stealing. A lot of people have
a problem with this. Take a look at this one. And, I might want you to think while you are watching this, Areva, what if one of the resource
officers had done this? Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Why you stealing from people.
UNIDENTIFIED 14--YEAR--OLD KID: Awwww!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): Bad!
UNIDENTIFIED 14--YEAR--OLD KID: I am sorry. I am sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): Tell them you are sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED 14--YEAR--OLD: I am sorry. I am sorry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, ENTERTAINMENT JOURNALIST: He took a belt and he gave the kid 14 strokes. I got beaten, and look, mom, I am on TV and I know you got
--
PINSKY: Like I said ---
ODUOLUWO: And I know you got a switch.
AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY AND LEGAL ANALYST: Segun ---
ODUOLOWU: And I know there were a couple people in the audience that got switches.
PINSKY: The Harvard -- hang on.
WATTS: I am old school. I grew up in North Carolina. We got whoopings like that. And, you best believe, we did not do that stuff again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: But Areva, it is illegal and if we are going to empower resource officers and teachers to do that?
AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY AND LEGAL ANALYST: No, Dr. Drew --
PINSKY: You know how silly that is.
MARTIN: The answer to what we saw on the video where the students are attacking the teacher is not to whip the students like we saw on that that
video that we talked about that shocked all of us. One of the things I have, the question I have about this video is why is that inexperienced
substitute teacher in a classroom with students that are clearly aggressive.
SCHACHER: No.
MARTIN: The school knew or should have known this class was out of control.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
SCHACHER: Please do not blame the teacher, Areva.
MARTIN: They should never have put that woman in that classroom by herself and expected her to be able to manage those behaviors --
PINSKY: Hold on. Are you blaming the teacher or the administration?
MARTIN: I am blaming the administration --
PINSKY: Yes.
MARTIN: -- that makes the decisions about what classrooms teachers should be in.
PINSKY: OK.
MARTIN: This woman wasn`t equipped to handle that classroom.
PINSKY: I still got John on the other end. John, do you agree with Areva for a change or you got something else to add here.
(LAUGHING)
JOHN CARDILLO, FORMER NYPD OFFICER: Areva, has never met a bad guy she did not love. She places blame everywhere else. It is incredible. Look, this
is a crime. The venue is irrelevant. I saw an attempted assault, a menacing, terroristic threats, and criminal use of a weapon. A steel and
wooden desk.
That kid needed to be dragged out in handcuffs. But, had he been, and we only saw that snippet of video, people would be calling for prosecution of
the police --
MARTIN: John.
CARDILLO: That poor teacher --
MARTIN: John, you are so extreme.
CARDILLO: Let me finish.
MARTIN: That is such an extreme --
CARDILLO: That poor teacher was terrified.
MARTIN: That is such an extreme statement. Clearly, those students were out of control and they needed to be disciplined and possibly criminal law
enforcement needed to be brought in, but dragged out in handcuffs, give me a break.
They are students for God sake. Where is the discipline? Where are the adults that are teaching positive behaviors to the kids, so they do not end
up in the criminal justice system?
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: John, hold on. I am up against the clock. So, real quick.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I think this is a reflection of too much violence in video games --
PINSKY: Does not help.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: TV shows --
PINSKY: It could be.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: -- and movies that are not for children, actually made for children.
PINSKY: It is another --
CATHERWOOD: But I watched "Tom and Jerry" growing up and the "Three Stooges" and they are hitting each other with frying pan.
PINSKY: You are right, Mike, but --
SCHACHER: No, he is right. I played "Mortal Combat" growing up, you do not see me ripping your heart out do you?
PINSKY: I saw you with gloves in a ring. You looked pretty violent there, I am just saying.
SCHACHER: That was in a ring.
PINSKY: I am just saying.
SCHACHER: OK.
PINSKY: But, there is measurable effects of what she is talking about. So, it is a point well taken. Next up, I got a seven-year-old student put
in handcuffs at school. Is that OK? Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRYSTAL MCCADDEN, MOTHER OF A 7-YEAR-OLD KID WHO WAS HANDCUFFED BY A POLICE: I was told that when he walked in, he told my son "If you do not
sit down, I am going to handcuff you."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: This is cell phone video shot by Chrystal McCadden as she walked into Brownell Stem Academy. Her son handcuffed
behind his back. McCadden said the officer couldn`t release her son because he did not have a key.
MCCADDEN: He do not deserve to be in handcuffs. He ain`t in here with no knife. He ain`t in here with no gun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: The officer eventually got a key and released her son. McCadden asked her son about what happened.
MCCADDEN: The first thing he said, "Mom, I did not kick. I was kicking the cart. I was kicking the cart."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: The officer used handcuffs to restrain the child to prevent injury to the child or others.
MCCADDEN: I do not want a kid to feel like, "If I do something wrong, I am going to get handcuffed."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: The mom further goes on to say the son has ADHD but has never been violent. Back with Sam, Rolonda, Mike, John, and Areva. So, we talked
earlier about teachers being called in to the resources officers, because they cannot seem to handle the children. John, I go out to you. What --
what is it that is going on? Do you have a sense of why adults having difficulty controlling classrooms?
CARDILLO: Well, you know, in this case, it was a matter of protocol and obviously it`s very traumatic for a seven-year-old to be handcuffed. It is
a bad visual.
PINSKY: It is a big day. John Cardillo said too much force. Too much force being used. OK.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
CARDILLO: Well, I am not saying too much force.
PINSKY: OK.
(LAUGHING)
CARDILLO: There was -- hold on -- and there is a reason -- there is a reason you guys might actually agree. One of the things I read was that
when the call was made to the officer, it was alleged the child was trying to hurt himself.
And, you are trained to restrain the child and you train that the hands are the path to injury. So, while it looks bad and I know it is traumatic, it
probably was safest for everyone concerned, including the child --
MARTIN: No.
CARDILLO: But not having a key was ridiculous.
PINSKY: You know, Areva --
MARTIN: There are some things Dr. Drew that should never be done.
PINSKY: Yes.
MARTIN: Putting handcuffs on a seven-year-old, can we just agree in this country? We should never do that. We have to figure out ways to teach
children to engage in appropriate behaviors without criminalizing them at seven-years old.
PINSKY: I have been saying --
WATTS: Traumatic.
PINSKY: Yes. And, I have been saying a lot on this show, we used to use restraints in psychiatric hospitals and we agreed in the community and
establishment, the medical community agreed, this is barbaric. I mean this is -- it is a failure when we have done that. It is a failure.
WATTS: Why would not they like put him in a separate room as opposed to put him in handcuffs?
PINSKY: Well most schools have stuff like that -- yes, ma`am. Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Well, my point is that, if you can`t control a seven-year-old without putting him in handcuffs, then you do not
need to be in the classroom. You do not need to be the peace officer at school.
You need to go sit down somewhere, OK? A seven-year-old, you traumatize them for life. You are teaching that child that he is going to go to
prison and everything. It is unacceptable on any level.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Have you been a teacher?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I was a substitute teacher. Yes.
PINSKY: What age group did you work with?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I worked for kindergarten all the way up to 14-year-olds. And, I found that 14-year-olds were too much for me to
handle, so I stopped.
(LAUGHING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Well, it looked like that was 14-year-old that we were looking at in that first tape. Do you have any insight or point of view that is
different than we have been discussing here?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Well, I worked with Special Ed and those children they do get a little --
PINSKY: Yes, when I saw that substitute teacher, the way she sort of stayed calm and centered and hung in, that is how you are trained to
behave, right?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: You have to -- you have to keep it controlled. And, in the case like that, she should have gotten up and left
the classroom and gotten some help, because he could have bashed her in the head very easily.
PINSKY: But he could have hurt the other kids just as well.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes.
PINSKY: I mean she hung in with them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: But, she was a tiny little woman, and I am sorry, I would not have stayed in there. I would have gotten help.
But when you are over powered like that, you have to get help because that situation was completely out of control. It just should not have happened.
CATHERWOOD: Well, and then the question I guess that is asked is, when you take the responsibility out of the teachers hands and an officer or
resource officer of some sort is called, what do you do? I mean, we are saying -- everyone can agree that it starts at home and it starts with
parenting, it starts with getting to the root of whatever problem is involved in this child, but we are now at the point of no return.
PINSKY: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: We are now at the point where the guy is holding a chair up. We are now at the point where, you know, students are fighting in a
classroom. How can you fault -- and I am not saying, you know, making excuse for anybody --
PINSKY: Well, listen, Mike.
CATHERWOOD: -- but if you are called as an officer and you show up and a guy is holding a chair above his head, I mean --
MARTIN: We have to be able to distinguish Mike between that video where someone is holding a chair threatening harm --
PINSKY: And a seven-year--old.
MARTIN: -- than a seven-year-old that may be is kicking what we have been told is a cart.
CATHERWOOD: Yes.
MARTIN: Totally different situation.
CATHERWOOD: And -- and -- and of course --like -- you know, like John said, the visual of a seven-year-old being handcuffed, it`s disgusting.
But at the same time, the argument remains when you are called in and you have been told there is a student who`s acting up.
He is acting violent maybe towards himself or herself or to other students, I mean, you are coming into the situation with a whole different kind of
idea on what is going on than someone who`s been in there watching, you know.
PINSKY: Let me read -- let me read what the police chief has told us. He says, quote, "We have initiated and scheduled training for all officers in
de-escalation and communication specifically geared to children. I have apologized to the mother for this situation and assured her that we will
protect the integrity of this investigation and will be transparent in our findings."
SCHACHER: That is great.
PINSKY: That is good, Areva, right?
MARTIN: That is a great acknowledgment by that police officers that something went wrong in that classroom, and they are going to try to fix
it.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: They are going to fix it, yes.
MARTIN: They are going to try to fix it.
PINSKY: Which is good.
MARTIN: That`s an important first step.
PINSKY: All right. Let us leave it at that. One thing -- well I am just going to leave it at that. We can go on and on about this, but I am going
to go to the next topic, which is Robin Williams. We got new information on his depression, his suicide. His wife said, it was not depression per
se. It was a complex neurological disorder. I will explain it after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Time for "Click Fix," where my guests tell me what is trending on their Twitter, Facebook and/or Instagram feeds. Rolonda is first.
WATTS: Yes. You know something, this is about Robin Williams.
PINSKY: Yes.
WATTS: It has been 15 months since we have lost Robin Williams. And, his wife Susan Schneider-Williams is finally breaking her silence. Amy Robach
from ABC News asked Susan if she blames herself for Robin`s death. And, here is what she said. Listen -- take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUSAN SCHNEIDER-WILLIAMS, ROBIN WILLIAMS` WIFE: Not for one second. I know we did everything we could. You know, Amy, people have -- in passing
would come up and say -- from their own grief, they would say to me, "God, I wish I had done something more for him. If only I called him." I am
thinking no one could have done anything more for Robin. I just want everyone to know that.
Nobody -- no one -- everyone did the very best they could. This disease is like a sea monster with 50 tentacles of symptoms that show when they want.
It is chemical warfare in the brain and we can`t find it until someone dies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Yes.
WATTS: The disease that Susan is referring to is called diffuse Lewy Body dementia.
PINSKY: Yes.
WATTS: It is a form of dementia characterized by depression, anxiety, delusion, rapid eye movement.
PINSKY: That is right.
WATTS: And, Susan told "People" Magazine, I am going to quote here, she said, "Robin was very aware that he was losing his mind" --
PINSKY: Yes.
WATTS: -- "and, there was nothing he could do about it." She added that, "Suicide was his way of taking control of his life."
PINSKY: Yes. It is -- Lewy Body Dementia is a very, very disruptive disease. They waste, so they look like they have cancer. They become
Parkinsonian. The movement problems are really the Parkinson features. They have hallucinations. They have severe depression and she is saying,
it is like whack a mole.
All kinds of symptoms come up and go down and it`s just a progressive degeneration of the central nervous system. Some of it is down here in the
substantia nigra, down in the deeper parts of the brain. So, it is just out of control.
The suicidality, you never know if that`s the profound depression that goes with it or whether it is a rational way out. In either case, he was not
going to live very long with this. And, it is interesting for her to consider maybe him just sort of taking control of this and being actually a
rational decision.
SCHACHER: Wow.
PINSKY: Not a really expression of his depression. In either case, it is an expression of this horrible disease. So, I am glad she spoke about it,
because people can understand what that was. He is a biological agent, just like the rest of us and we get crappy diseases, terrible diseases.
Who is up next? Sam, you are up next.
SCHACHER: Such a tragic story. And, we are going to switch gears. This is a viral video of an alleged shoplifter that has been hit in the face by
karma, literally. This is in South --
(LAUGHING)
This is at a mall in South Africa. Surveillance video captures a woman racing towards the mall`s exit then doing a face plant into a set of
revolving doors.
WATTS: Oh!
CATHERWOOD: Oh my gosh.
SCHACHER: Her male companion is also believed to be a shoplifter. He actually escaped through the adjacent glass doors. She then followed his
lead. No arrest have been made and it is not known whether the woman suffered any injuries.
CATHERWOOD: That is a broken nose for sure.
PINSKY: For sure. For sure.
CATHERWOOD: Oh my gosh.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: All right. Mike, you are next.
CATHERWOOD: All right. So, this past weekend the Kansas City Royals defeated the New York Mets to become World Series champs.
PINSKY: What?
CATHERWOOD: Yes.
PINSKY: What? I had not heard.
CATHERWOOD: But, the Mets were not the only losers. Social media is having a field day with this guy. A self-described lifelong Mets fan, who
had the team`s insignia along with World Champs 2015 tattoo on his side.
PINSKY: But, I like his hubris. You know what I mean? That is a baseball fan.
CATHERWOOD: Yes.
PINSKY: They`re so superstitious. "I am going to put it on my skin, therefore it will happen."
CATHERWOOD: And, he says he has no regrets. He considers the tattoo a tribute to his favorite team. This is the most embarrassing thing the Mets
fans have done since Gary Dell`Abate threw out the first pitch.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Although, this guy may be on to something. Maybe he can switch the five to a 16. What do you think?
CATHERWOOD: Yes. I mean you could cover up anything.
PINSKY: I am just saying. They may be up for it next year.
CATHERWOOD: Yes.
PINSKY: Next up, speaking of next, I got an update on the Uber assault. The passenger, who attacked the driver is finally paying the price. Look
at this. It was just some poor guy trying to get the guy out of his car. We will get into it after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: We have an update on the story we brought to you last night, it involves the intoxicated passenger who assaulted an Uber driver. Look at
the tape. It is unbelievable.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER DRIVER: Am I getting on the 55?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER PASSENGER: No. You are going to -- why -- why would you go this far?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER DRIVER: Dude, you got to give me directions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER PASSENGER: Why do I have to give you directions?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER DRIVER: Because -- because --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER PASSENGER: I put my address in the phone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER DRIVER: No, you did not. You refused to.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER PASSENGER: You better turn your ass around.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER DRIVER: No. I am kicking you out, man. You are too -- you are too drunk to give me directions, man. Get out of my car or
I will call the police.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER PASSENGER: I got to tell you something, you little (EXPLETIVE WORDS).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER DRIVER: Get the (EXPLETIVE WORD) out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER PASSENGER: (EXPLETIVE WORD) Yeah, I am giving you your (EXPLETIVE WORD).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER DRIVER: Yeah, yeah.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHACHER: Good.
PINSKY: Yes. I think the driver got the upper hand and continued to spray him, as I understand. The 32-year-old passenger has not only been arrested
on charges of public intoxication and assault. He has now been fired from his job as a mid-level manager for the Taco Bell Corporation.
SCHACHER: Oh.
PINSKY: It is funny but it is not. You know what I mean? It is like, they did the right thing here. They tried to get him help. He needs a lot
of help.
CATHERWOOD: He hits like a bitch --
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
PINSKY: His employer released a statement, "Given the behavior of the individual, it is clear he can no longer work for us. We have also offered
him and encouraged him to seek professional help," which is in indeed what this young man needs. But it does add interesting twist on being an Uber
driver these days.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: They need to carry pepper spray.
SCHACHER: Thank God for that camera. Thank goodness.
PINSKY: Yes, I know.
CATHERWOOD: I also like how he went Tony Montana with the pepper spray. He is like, "You like that? Yeah. Yeah. OK."
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: A reminder, we are on Snap Chat, you can join us there. It is DrDrewHLN. Please DVR this show then you can watch us any time. You can
join us on our Facebook page. We have an after show there, this group will join me there. We will continue the conversation, I bet about Rachel
Dolezal is going to be my prediction.
SCHACHER: Probably.
PINSKY: We never know until we get in there. I want to thank you all in the audience for being a part of this. Good job. Thank you panel. Thank
you for watching. Thank you Loni Love.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(END VIDEO TAPE)
END
