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Dr. Drew
Breaking News: Mass Shooting in California; Fourteen Killed, Seventeen Wounded in San Bernardino Shooting; Two Suspects Dead, One Man And One Female; Police: Suspects Came Prepared; FBI Raid Underway At Apartment. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired December 02, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:14] DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: We are live tonight with breaking news. I am sure you are all aware of a mass shooting in San Bernardino,
California. At least 14 people have been killed, at least 17 wounded.
The police chief, locally, says two suspects are dead, a man, and a woman. A third suspect has been detained. We are going to review with you some of
the chilling eyewitness accounts, starting with this man whose wife was deep inside the crime scene.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARCOS AGUILERA, HUSBAND OF ONE OF THE EMPLOYEE AT THE INLAND REGIONAL CENTER: They were barricaded in their office and heard a lot of gunshots
and crying. When S.W.A.T. got her out, escort out her office, she said that there was bodies that they had to go through to get out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: I heard rapid shooting, just -- boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And, honestly, I thought, "Oh, God! Somebody is
hunting."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: All of a sudden -- Boom! It was just -- yes. It was like right here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: It was rapid. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: And, then they said they were on the loose.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Yes, and I was like right behind the building.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: I started walking and all of a sudden I got into chaos, and -- who knows? It was just boom, boom, boom. And, then,
you know, I am just right, "Wow, right in the middle of it."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRANDON HUNT, INLAND REGIONAL SERVICES EMPLOYEE: Employees were locked in offices and closets, just to try to stay safe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TERRY PETTIT, FATHER OF ONE OF THE INLAND REGIONAL CENTER EMPLOYEES: "Shooting at my work. People shot. In the office, waiting for cops."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: But, she is OK?
PETTIT: "Pray for us."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Of course, it is terribly emotional seeing these things. And, the video of that man reading his daughter`s text messages was courtesy of KABC
T.V. Joining me, Judy Ho, Clinical Psychologist, Professor at Pepperdine University; Vanessa Barnett, HipHollywood.com.
Dondre Whitfield, actor, co-founder of Manhood Tour; Lisa Bloom, Civil Rights Lawyer at the Bloom Firm and legal analyst for Avvo.com, and
finally, Cheryl Dorsey, Sergeant LAPD retired and the author of "The Creation of a Manifesto: Black & Blue."
I am going to show you some more footage here. Look at this when police first caught up -- you have all heard about this black SUV that was seen
leaving the scene. The police caught up with that SUV. Apparently, they had a tip that sent them -- those of you around the world or country might
be seeing this.
San Bernardino is what we call the Inland Empire. It is a large area East of where we are now -- Hold on a second, everybody. I thought it is
important to spell this out. These happened in San Bernardino.
These people after they perpetrated their heinous act -- and by the way, cowardly act, while these people are shot in the back, they fled to
Redlands, California, which is sort of towards Palm Springs. Maybe a half hour away from there.
The police had tips. They staked out a house, then they saw the SUV that had been reported leaving the crime scene, followed them. A shootout
occurred, and I want to show you this tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (1): You can see tactical teams moving up the sidewalk, looking for positions of advantage right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (2): Looking at that vehicle, all of the windows have been basically shot out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY : This entire pursuit has been going on for over seven hours. The police chief of that vicinity just -- of the San Bernardino are just spoke
moments ago. I want to play this for you. Let us look at it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JARROD BURGUAN, SAN BERNARDINO, CALIFORNIA POLICE CHIEF: About the suspects that were -- that are dead at the scene, one is a male, one is a
female. They were dressed in kind of assault style clothing. I think it is probably the best way to term it.
They are both armed with assault rifles. They are both armed with handguns, and there was also kind of some sensitive stuff around the
vehicle. They are just not real sure, they are taking a very cautious approach to dealing with the vehicle in case there is more explosives
there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: He also said a third person had been detained, who is seen running away. But, they do not know if that person, at least they have not
publicly stated whether that person was even involved with any of this. Let us try to put this all together. I am emotionally spent.
This all broke out, Judy, when I was on radio in KABC here locally in Los Angeles. And, I was reporting as it unfolded. I somehow seeing that man
read the text from his daughter, really my own emotional fatigue is showing up.
This is a tragedy. This is cowardly. Yesterday -- Well, a couple days ago, I am saying on this program, how many more times do I have to report
mass shootings, and I knew I would. Here we are again.
JUDY HO, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Right. And, it was a very odd place for this all to happen, because it was at a regional center where
they care for developmentally disabled people, provided them services and evaluations. I mean these are people who dedicate their lives to promoting
the mental wellness of other people --
PINSKY: But, it was not even part of the facility. Apparently, somebody from the San Bernardino Health Department or health -- not even health --
personnel of San Bernardino county, who had rented the facility, the convention meeting center, the middle, and that is where this all broke
out. Vanessa, you have any more theories about this?
VANESSA BARNETT, HIPHOLLYWOOD.COM: I feel like you. I am kind of spent.
PINSKY: Yes.
BARNETT: You hear that -- I heard it as it broke as well and you just feel this feeling of dread, and you feel "Here we go again."
PINSKY: Yes.
BARNETT: And, you feel helpless and you feel like you do not have the answers. And, here we are, seven hours later and we are still trying to
piece it together. We still do not have a motive.
They will not tell us much about the suspects. We are still like here feeling empty and people are picking up these debates, and you read online
and they just go into a situation where we have been before.
[21:05:05] PINSKY: And, Dondre, you and I were standing, watching the CNN report when these FBI official left the door open. They were like,
frankly, kicked it open --
DONDRE WHITFIELD, ACTOR AND CO-FOUNDER OF "MANHOOD TOUR": Absolutely.
PINSKY: -- and cracked to the possibility of this being terrorism.
WHITFIELD: Yes. And, that is the thing. I think that is most scary for a lot of us is that we do not know whether these two individuals, who just
decided, you know, they had a particular axe to grind with another group of people or, you know, person; or this was truly an act of terrorism.
But, I will say this. Terrorist, generally, say, "Hey, look, I am going to take out as many as I possibly can." And, then on the way out, I will
probably take myself out as well. These people had a plan. They had a specific plan and a escape route. So, I am not sure if I am willing yet to
buy into this, you know, act of terrorist.
PINSKY: Cheryl, I actually heard law enforcement, they have been commenting on this. They say it frightens them, because it does not follow
a pattern they can make sense. And, Judy and I from mental health standpoint, we cannot really make sense of it, either. Do you agree with
that or do you have some sense of what this is?
CHERYL DORSEY, SERGEANT LAPD (RET.): Well, of course, I do not know what is behind this, but for me it seems very personal. And, I think once all
of the facts are known, I think what we will find out is that really probably someone had an axe to grind with someone that was in that group.
This was a very target specific location. They knew that these people would be here on this date, at this time, at this hour. And, it sounds
like someone went in there to do recon. Make sure that the people they were looking for were in fact there came back out, and then it started.
PINSKY: Lisa, I think what Cheryl was talking about is that there was a some sort of altercation, or something. Somebody left, and they are
thinking that might have been one of the people that came back of the three reported, so-called. But, you have always -- I thought of you today when
this happened, because you kept talking about domestic terrorism.
LISA BLOOM, CIVIL RIGHTS LAWYER AND LEGAL ANALYST: Right.
PINSKY: Do you think that is what the play here?
BLOOM: Well, of course, we do not know. But, here is what we do know, we have at least two, probably three angry people, who got their hands on
assault weapons and killed at least 14 people and several more in critical condition.
And, so, to everybody who says, it is too soon to talk about gun control. I say for today`s victims, it is too late and we have to talk about it in
America. And, we have to talk about it every day, because we have one of these incidents on average more than 365 of these a year in America.
PINSKY: These being what?
BLOOM: We got to talk about it.
PINSKY: Being what?
BLOOM: Mass shootings. Shootings of four or more people.
BARNETT: It has already been over 350 shootings this year. And, we are on 336 days, so that is more than one a day.
BLOOM: Right.
BARNETT: And, there still has been no changed, no reform, no policy, nothing. What do you tell these victims? What do you tell these families
when this continues to happen and we do not figure out the solutions.
WHITFIELD: On Black Friday, they talked about how the numbers had grown from 177,000 in 2012 after the shooting at the elementary school --
PINSKY: Sandy Hook.
WHITFIELD: Sandy Hook. And, now it beat that record. It grew to 185,000 for background checks for people to try to acquire firearms.
PINSKY: Well, I think it felt like we are sort of arming up a bit. It felt like that, but this is not that. This is assault weapon. That is a
little different.
HO: No.
BLOOM: Yes. We need a nationwide assault weapons ban. We have one here in California. And, by the way, as we sit here now, we are only 65 miles
away from this shooting in San Bernardino.
PINSKY: No. I --
BLOOM: That is how close we all are.
PINSKY: Listen. There was -- in the middle of all this, people may not be aware, but there was a S.W.A.T. action in Pasadena where I live.
BLOOM: Wow.
PINSKY: And, they thought that is where the guy has headed. Fantastic.
BLOOM: Right. So, we have a good law here in California, but we are only as good as the states around us that allow assault weapons. I mean we need
a nationwide ban.
PINSKY: All right. We have a lot more to show you. This conversation goes on. We are going to hear from our audience. Be back right after
this.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:08:45] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF BURGUAN: The suspects have fled, potentially in a dark colored SUV. We do not have any identification on who those suspects are. We do not
know what the motive is for the shooting at this point. Preliminary information indicates that these are people that came prepared.
They were dressed and equipped in a way to indicate that they were prepared. They were on with long guns, not handguns. I do not know what
type of long guns. They came prepared to do what they did as if they were on a mission.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with breaking news. A mass shooting tonight in San Bernardino, California. That was the police chief before the dramatic
shootout that ended up with the two suspects being killed. Here now with me, Judy, Vanessa, Dondre, Lisa and Cheryl.
I want to get some input from the audience. This whole thing has been, Judy, so hard to put together, though. At first, I am going to call myself
out. First, I heard I heard it was a place that treated developmentally challenged people and I thought, "Oh, great! Here we are another case like
Sandy Hook." I just in my head, I went through that.
HO: Right.
PINSKY: Like people are -- they are in denial. They are not getting proper treatment.
HO: Right.
PINSKY: And, of course, health system does not get them what they need. I was, absolutely, categorically wrong. Then, I went to -- maybe, you know,
sort of postal -- a post office, someone who is disgruntle employee kind of thing. It seemed like -- then it seemed like -- and Cheryl said like
specific thing like somebody --
DORSEY: Specific target.
PINSKY: Yes, specific target like somebody that axe to grind with that particular organization, which was renting out the space there, the San
Bernardino personnel. Now, we are hearing from the FBI that terrorism might be a piece of the story.
HO: Right. And, I think that everybody is obviously on their pins and needles because of the recent events that have been happening. And, so,
terrorism is going to be on everyone`s minds, but --
PINSKY: But, why would the FBI say that, "leave the door open on that," unless there was a decent evidence that, that is the case.
HO: They had that mysterious package they were trying to investigate, because it was found on the second floor of the building.
PINSKY: Yes.
HO: And, they said that it seemed not normal. That is all they said. So, they had to take it in for evidence. So, we do not know, but of course
that is going to be the first hypothesis on everybody`s mind, Dr. Drew. We have been worried about this.
PINSKY: Well, that is why, I think they were trying to squash all of our speculations. They go, "Look, it is not terrorism," and then later come
back, "OK, maybe it is." Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: It is getting ridiculous all the violence going into the holiday season, we should not fear going shopping
or anything of that nature.
Nobody has the right to take somebody else`s life because they are disgruntled or pissed off or whatever the case is. For gun control, we
need to start doing maybe a check mentally and take a test rather than just doing background checks.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:15:09] BLOOM: Yes. Yes.
HO: I wish. I think I feel like --
PINSKY: And, get some help when they are screened positive, which is something I wish.
HO: Right. Well, and it is insane because there are still other ways to get around that. I mean very sadly, people have attempted to shoot other
people or shoot themselves at gun ranges. You know, that the possibility I mean if you own a gun.
PINSKY: Dondre.
WHITFIELD: You know, we are in a time where we can actually have people on the TSA`s no fly list, and they can still get a gun.
HO: Right.
PINSKY: Yes.
WHITFIELD: And, that makes absolutely no sense.
BLOOM: Thank you NRA.
WHITFIELD: We need reform.
PINSKY: Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: We do not know what led to the insanity of course --
PINSKY: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: -- but having worked for the regional center in the past --
PINSKY: Whoa! Slow down. Good. I want to get something from you. So, you actually worked in that facility?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Not that facility, but they have several.
PINSKY: And, they seem to me like facilities at California is very proud of.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes.
PINSKY: It is one of the few states that really provide that kind of exceptional resource to people in need. Yes, so, in this morning, this was
something that California was so proud of.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. For one reason, I mean I worked as a service coordinator/counselor. So, a lot of times people do not look
at it as we are social workers. It is social services. So, we have to go to into the homes and we are considered mandated reporters. So, sometimes
we have to report abuse and neglect.
PINSKY: That is what I wondered. That is what I wonder if somebody had a child taken from them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Could be.
PINSKY: Or domestic violence that got repeated.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Could be.
PINSKY: But, then -- but let us be fair, it did not go to the workers at the regional center, it went to the San Bernardino personnel. I heard
health department personnel.
HO: Yes.
PINSKY: I heard that, that had rented out the space at the facility. Those where the ones being shot. Is not that crazy?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: But, we work with several different personnels. It could be probation. It could be health services. You do
no know what it is tied to.
PINSKY: Got it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: A lot of times, service coordinators have to write court reports that could be responsible for a client being
removed from a home. I do believe that it could have been a personal attack.
HO: Right.
PINSKY: It seems like, but why then a male and a female or why three of them? That seems like a single vigilante by itself --
BARNETT: And assault rifle.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: It could have been a family member. It could have been a family member. We do not know, we are just
speculating at this time. But, I -- as working as a social worker, I understand that you do have clients and situations where they come back for
revenge.
HO: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: And, then note that we are dealing with individuals with disabilities. But, a lot of times they are duly
diagnosed.
PINSKY: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: They have psychotic features.
PINSKY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: And, just because the client may have a disability, we also deal with the family too.
PINSKY: Is there something in there where there is a solution to that problem, or do you feel like Judy and I do sometimes -- we are not getting
enough resources to deal with how massive the problems are.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I think it is just a matter of just being aware of mental illness, period.
PINSKY: Yes. Agree.
BARNETT: What protocols are in place if you do fear for your life? If you do fear that -- in that situation?
PINSKY: There is not a lot out there?
HO: There is not a lot. I mean I got to be honest with you. I have had my life threatened at least in the heat of the moment by patients when I
have reported them because I found out that there was abuse in the family.
And, then they are basically saying that they are completely really stressed out, and that I have ruined their family and they are going to
come after me. What can I do? I am in a private practice office by myself. So --
PINSKY: I want to go out to Stephanie Elam. She is, of course, CNN Stephanie Elam. You are, Stephanie, where the families are recommended to
go reunite with their loved ones, is that right?
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that is correct, Dr. Drew. I am here outside of the Rudy Hernandez Community Center. And, we have been
watching for the last two hours. Families come through here, obviously very scared. I am going to take my ear out, because I can hear myself.
PINSKY: Got it.
ELAM: But, you can see families coming through here, and they are looking to reunite with their loved ones. And, there is a look on their face. It
is not a panic, but it is definitely a very tense look. And, you can see that relief when they, actually, hug with their family members and move on.
There is one woman that I interviewed earlier. She was looking for her brother and that was probably around 1:00. And, she just now was able to
find her brother and they walked out. She told me that he saw three people that were shot. And, the look on his face right now when he walked out, he
is definitely very shell shocked and he was not up for doing any interviews.
But, there is definitely -- these the happier side of the story. These are people who were reuniting and finding each other after hours of not being
able to see each other even after they knew that they were safe, because of text messaging and so forth throughout the buildings. But, a lot of people
here, it has been a very long ordeal and they are very much traumatized, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Thank you, Stephanie. I appreciate that. Yes, I have had people threaten me, too. And , I call the police and police go, "When they show
up, let us know."
(LAUGHING)
HO: Yes. Yes. Great.
BARNETT: They cannot do anything until you are hurt or dead.
HO: Yes.
PINSKY: It is like you have heard so many times. Lisa, the law enforcement, their hands are sort of tied until there is a specific act of
threat.
BARNETT: But, you know, we hate it. We cannot say that.
BLOOM: We see these mass shootings over and over again. But what we do not see and what is so different is three people joining together to do
this.
PINSKY: It is weird. It is very crazy.
BLOOM: And, that to me sort of weighs against a mentally-ill person coming back to the scene. Because they are going to get their friends, they got
to have tactically uniforms --
[21:20:00] PINSKY: And, the fact -- I got to go to this phone call right now, but -- and the fact that the FBI has left the possibility open of
there being terrorism involved.
BLOOM: Yes.
PINSKY: Joining me on the phone now, I got Aileen Torres. She and about 40 other individuals barricaded themselves inside one of the buildings at
the regional center. Aileen, tell us what you saw and how long before you realized what was going on?
AILEEN TORRES, JUST REUNITED WITH FAMILY (via phone): Well, we were all in our individual offices. And, then one of my coworkers came running down
the hallway and was just screaming, "There is an active shooter. There is an active shooter." And, we -- I mean, you know, everybody was just kind
of shock.
We all went inside my supervisor`s office, who has a large window, and my coworkers telling us, you know, pointing down, "He is over there. He is
over there." And, then someone just yelled, "Get away from the window. Get away from the window." And, of course, it was just chaos.
So, everybody just does not really know what to do. And, then, you know, there was an active shooter training that was supposed to happen in the
future. So, people were just kind of throwing it out there like, "Oh, it is just a training."
PINSKY: Wow!
TORRES: And, so we -- I grabbed my phone, and I just -- I grabbed my purse because my first thought was if I can just drive out of here, then -- if I
can get a chance, I am going to do it. And, then a lot of the supervisors start to coming out and just told us, go inside -- go towards the north
side of the building. Do not go near the windows.
And, we all -- 47 of us barricaded ourselves in one of the conference room. Then just pushed, you know -- there is a huge, at least a 20-foot oval
heavy table that some of the people pushed down and we hid behind it and just kind of turned off the lights. Put our phone on silent and just
waited until law enforcement came to clear us.
HO: Wow.
PINSKY: How long were you there for?
TORRES: For about 30 to 40 minutes it seemed.
PINSKY: Do you have --
TORRES: And, what is the scary part is not knowing if he was still out there or, you know, what the situation was.
PINSKY: Grinding. It sounds absolutely grinding or gruesome. Do you have any theory or any of your pierce having theory about what this was? What
happened there today?
TORRES: No. No. I mean, you know, it is just so cliche. You are just surprised that it happened at our facility. You know, we serve people with
developmental disabilities. We provide services for them, so it was just very shocking. Very, very shocking.
PINSKY: Aileen, thank you so much. Listen. Keep people around you. You are not going to sleep well tonight and that is normal, you should not. I
mean that was a terrible experience, but the more you keep people connected to you, the easier this will be as it wears off.
TORRES: Absolutely.
PINSKY: As the trauma -- the trauma, the acute stress reactions wears off. All right, be back with more of this after the break.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:26:51] UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: So, your daughter was in there and you got a text message.
PETTIT: That someone had come in and started shooting. And, they ran into an office and she is hiding with some other people. "Shooting at my work.
People shot. In the office, waiting for cops."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: But she is OK?
PETTIT: "Pray for us." "I am locked in an office." That is it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: We are back with breaking news. We are looking at live pictures right here from Redlands, California, where police have responded to a home
in the area, which was likely involved in today`s shooting in San Bernardino.
My understanding is this may have been one of the homes they staked out from which the black SUV emerged. We heard the police chief at the
conferences and the FBI at the press conference talk about how dangerous these situations can be and that the perpetrators can -- the cowards that
they are, shooting people in the back.
I want to remind you, a lot of the victims are shot in the back, running away. Also, leave behind booby traps, where they try to harm police
officials. Still with me, Judy, Vanessa, Dondre, Lisa and Cheryl. And, Cheryl, when we were speculating a minute ago about -- we are trying to
piece this thing together, I saw you bristle a little bit. Did we go astray on our theories about what this likely was?
DORSEY: No. I did not at all. I may have caught a chill. No. You know, it is just so mind boggling, right? Because when these kinds of things
happen, we always think it happens somewhere else. It happens to, you know, them, not us. And, so, now we know that really we are safe nowhere.
PINSKY: I get it. I used to, it happened to us. I expect it to be in the lobby in CNN. I just cannot understand how I live in a world -- I do not
understand the world I live in anymore.
WHITFIELD: You know, I was saying while we are at the break, I am just so done with this. As a father, I have an 11-year-old daughter, I have a 6-
year-old son, and I was listening to that father reading the text message from his daughter, and I just -- I could not imagine having to do that as
father and not be completely helpless to go in and do something for my child.
PINSKY: Awful. Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I mean, you guys are the experts. I respect you. Where do we go from here? You know, where do we go from here
since you guys are the experts in the field, you know? And, we all respect -- I mean holidays are coming up.
HO: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: New Years Eve is coming up. So, what do we do? Do we stay bunkered in our house? Do we -- you know, I have an
11-year-old son as well. He is in Cincinnati, he called me crying, because you know I am out here doing comedy.
And, he is like, "Daddy, are you alive." You know, so that broke my heart, you know. So, I understand where you are coming from. So, where do we go
from here as everybody probably would want to know?
PINSKY: Let us say, my heartbreaks that you had to ask that question. But, I think it is a great question. I tweeted this afternoon when this
thing first broke. I was asking the Twitter version, "Where is this? Where do I live? I did not recognize this country anymore."
Interestingly, actress, Debra Messing replied to me.
She goes, "I do not know, either. Just like you are saying, I am despairing. What do we tell our kids," which is what you are asking. So,
this has been on my mind since this afternoon. And, younger kids, you tell them, they are going to be OK. That is the first order business. You
are going to be fine. We are going to take care of you. You are safe.
HO: Yes.
[21:30:00] PINSKY: Older kids, your kids are right on the cusp, where you got to start really talking about the facts. And, kids late adolescent,
how about the college-age kids that are taken over their institutions right now, why do not you guys help us really solve some of these problems here
today. These is all of us are in danger because of what is going on throughout the world right now. It has gone insane. I cannot --
What do you tell your kids? First of all, "You are going to be taken care of. You are going to be fine, but this is the world we live in." This can
be long conversations. The other thing is as I was talking to that phone call, a few minutes ago, which is a lot of people, a lot of us are going to
have, what is called, acute stress reactions.
People that have been previously traumatized from any means whether it was in war, or whether it was in childhood -- adverse childhood experiences,
even watching this stuff can be so evocative that it could develop into a posttraumatic stress type situation. Judy agrees with me on that.
It is important that if you have symptoms, you cannot see, if you have flashbacks, you have gruesome ideas, your mood goes off, please seek help
with that. But the biggest buffer right now is keeping people around you, who really care about you. Would you agree.
HO: That is right. And, the whole feeling of helplessness is what we are getting at. It is like what can we do about the situation.
PINSKY: Yes.
HO: That is why people have this acute stress syndromes, because they really do not know what they can do. And, I think the best thing that we
can do is try to empower ourselves individually as much as possible.
I mean you should not lock yourselves up in your house. You should not barricade yourself. You should live your life, but you should be vigilant.
You should take some of that into our own hands.
Often times, we look around to see what other people`s reactions are before we say something looks wrong. You should really be the person to say that,
if everybody else seems normal but you see something, you should say something right away to get yourself out of it.
PINSKY: What Judy is talking about is the bystander effect, do not be a bystander. Just because everybody else is not doing anything, go ahead and
speak up. Do not be afraid. Anything, Cheryl?
DORSEY: You know, Dr. Drew, I think it is almost imperative now that we have to really have a mindset of what would we do, if. Right? We have to
really have a plan A and a B here and out.
PINSKY: Well, did you hear the caller was saying they were going to have an active shooter rehearsal -- what do they call it --
WHITFIELD: Training.
HO: Training.
PINSKY: Drill.
HO: Yes.
DORSEY: But, just in our own personal private lives, I mean I feel like when I tell my children when you go out, and you know they are adults, but
when you go out, if you go out to a movie now, you have to have an idea about where you go to get out, if you need to get out of here.
BARNETT: Exactly.
DORSEY: And, so, we need to think like that. So, when it happens, we do not panic. We just do that thing that we have been kind of preparing and
rehearsing.
PINSKY: Lisa, you are shaking your head.
BLOOM: You know, only in America, though, are we all walking around --
PINSKY: We are in France.
BLOOM: I just have to say this. No, we have thousand times more shootings in America that even taking into account, which has happened in France. We
cannot despair. I am sorry. I am not a therapist. OK. I will be a terrible therapist. I am an activist.
PINSKY: Judy and I might agree on that.
BLOOM: We have to not despair. We have to not sit back and say, "Woe was me." We have to take action. We have to pass the laws that are in place
in every other developed country, that for the most parts significantly reduces this problem.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Wait a minute. So, it is like the French where they have an active emergency, where they come and take you off to jail just because.
That is what they can do in France now, because they have gone too far one direction. Are we going to do the same thing they have done?
BLOOM: Well, I am not saying we just round everybody up and put them in jail, but --
PINSKY: That is what they are making in France, because they did not have any provisions in place to deal what we are all dealing with now. I am
just saying.
BLOOM: OK. Well, that is not a good response, either. But, even including what just happened in France, they have a couple of hundred gun
homicides a year. We have 33,000. We have mass shootings every day in America. It is unacceptable and it is easily solved.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I think one thing we also are dealing with is a new crap of people, because they are not afraid of death. And, I
do not know how we fight people who are not afraid of death.
HO: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Usually, death is a stopping point for most people.
BLOOM: Yes.
PINSKY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: So, you are talking beyond mental health here, they do not have any fear. There is no barrier, so how do we
fight people who are not afraid they exchange their lives to kill others. I mean, I have no answers to that.
PINSKY: You were saying something -- Listen. You were saying something profound. I do not have an easy answer to that, but it also --
WHITFIELD: There is none.
PINSKY: Well, there got to be.
WHITFIELD: You cannot fight -- well, the truth of the matter is that you cannot. You really cannot prevent that. You can only hope to combat it
when it does. But, I think what we are talking about or what Lisa has been saying or what we have been eluding to is the fact that, you know -- when
we go to Canada, you know, I worked in Vancouver for quite some time.
And, I understood how the feeling of safety. It was very difficult to get any sort of weapon there. And, you just get that feeling like, "Hey,
things are going to be OK." Now, are we ever going to be able to eliminate any acts of violence? Absolutely not. But, we definitely as Lisa said, we
definitely have to start being proactive about reform and getting some of this gun control laws.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
BLOOM: Yes.
BARNETT: Well, what reforms can we possibly even think can happen if we live in a country that after Sandy Hook, after toddlers and babies were
killed, government, policy reform, nothing happened. So, if that was not our breaking point, if that was not enough, who do we go to? Who are we
asking to change things?
HO: And, this is the country that values independence and individual decisions more so than some of the things that you are talking about. The
values are being put on the back burner in some way.
[21:35:03] PINSKY: All right. I got a lot more breaking news. More to show you guys. A lot more to discuss. Be right back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: That is a dark SUV. Look at the bullet holes in the windshield. The left side, driver side, completely blown out. This
was a very, very graphic shootout here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: There were shots fired. Officers were involved, and there is a suspect down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: There were two men inside that vehicle, at least one of them is dead following the chase. One of the men that was
outside the vehicle, both of them according to the source, had AR-15 type weapons. And, as police were chasing the vehicle, items were being thrown
from the window including what appears to be these pipe bombs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:40:00] PINSKY: And, we now know that it was not two men in that vehicle, but a man and a woman both of whom are now dead. We continue with
the breaking news about the mass shooting in San Bernardino, California.
Here with me Judy, Vanessa, Dondre, Lisa and Cheryl. In san Bernardino today, it looks more like a military zone than what we call the Inland
Empire out here. And, again, this military equipment to protect ourselves from ourselves. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (1): It looks like a some sort of a military vehicle that is pulling in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: This is some type of, looks like E.O.D. --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Bomb disposal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Yes, bomb disposal device that they are going to use. That is probably a bomb shield.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: You and I have seen these vehicles in Iraq, in Bagdad. I saw them in Fallujah, but to see them in San Bernardino, but see
them in San Bernardino, California, at an event like this, where there could be an explosive device. It is pretty terrifying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: We make much about the militarization of the police, well that is because we have militarized public in this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (1): So, what you are saying it is justified to have --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): It is justified.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (1): -- military armored vehicles --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): Absolutely.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (1): -- coming into a city like this at a time like this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Lisa, fascinating. A militarized police because of militarized public.
BLOOM: Right.
PINSKY: The force is out of the --
BLOOM: I mean there are times, obviously, where it is appropriate. And, this is one of those times. When we have peaceful protestors, no, we do
not need to see militarized police.
WHITFIELD: Right.
PINSKY: Let us hear from our audience.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I am concerned about extremism, because it is like it is cultural, it is religious, all kinds of things all over
the world are driving us to be extreme.
PINSKY: What do you think that is? Why all of a sudden -- Particularly, people think about fundamentalism and extremism is some sort of a throwback
to the 12th Century. No, it is modern, everybody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes.
PINSKY: It is a modern phenomenon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I mean that is what my people -- we are transgender. That is what we experiences. That kind of extremism exercise
towards us in violence in shopping malls. Lately, we have seen a massive increase in friends of mine getting attacked in Target stores around here.
PINSKY: That is aggression.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Just in the last couple weeks.
PINSKY: I do not know what --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: And, it is like -- OK. Well, yes we can do something about guns, but what about toning people down to where
they will be happy to let other people live their lives around them.
PINSKY: Yes, Vanessa.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
BARNETT: No. That is spot on. We live in a society where if you do not share the same opinion you are now labeled some Islam and you are condemned
to hell, then you are taunted, and threatened, and maybe killed. Why do we live in a society where we cannot appreciate differences.
PINSKY: And, I want to remind people that the extremism topic came up earlier tonight as it pertains to terrorism. The FBI official did leave
the door open to the probability -- is probability the right word?
WHITFIELD: Possibility.
BARNETT: Possibility.
PINSKY: Possibility. But, it seemed like more than a possibility the way they described it, that there was indeed there was some sort of terrorist
activity involved in this. Yes?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I just want to know why do people find it strange that three people got together to do this, when there are
people convincing others to do this all of the time.
PINSKY: Well, great question. Let us try to address it. If it is a terrorism, and if it is some sort of unified world view or philosophy, or
you know, what would we call this, Judy? You know, I think of all of these things, it is sort of a cultish idea.
HO: A cult. Yes. Yes.
PINSKY: Yes. Then -- We do not have direct -- no one took responsibility for this. We have one person, who has a disgruntled employee, who take
something personal out on someone from the San Bernardino personnel. Cheryl, one or two makes sense, right? Maybe some from the same family,
but three does not really make that much sense.
That is why we start to wonder about terrorism, like they share some sort of common intent. Maybe that is what fight was about with the personnel
from the San Bernardino Department of Health. No?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. And, the other thing I was thinking, too, is as she said before that if they are dealing with people
who have mental health issues, and they are saying the family maybe retaliating, it could possibly be another person in the family with a
mental health issue that maybe have not been addressed.
PINSKY: To completely understand it -- that is where my head was at when I first heard the shooting in this environment, but again that is usually an
individual, maybe a second, but a third is weird.
HO: Right. The third person is weird. I mean it is weird to me that they still have not found out information with the person they are detaining
like why it is taking so long.
PINSKY: Maybe he is not the third guy or maybe there is no third guy.
HO: Maybe not. Maybe not, but I do think that it is scary when we think about the fact that people can just pick up their assault weapons. Go to a
neighborhood joint and shoot up everybody in there. I mean that is what people are responding to.
They are trying to explain this, because they are really does not make any sense. Like how can you convince somebody that this would be a good idea
to do if it was not something like terrorism?
BARNETT: Yes.
PINSKY: Right. Unless you believed you were doing something in the name of "fill in the blank".
HO: That is right.
BARNETT: How rare is that, that there is a female involved. It is like when we were back stage and we were listening to that, we all kind of
gasped, like "Wow, there is a women."
And, then on top of that, I find it is suspicion that they are withholding information as far as the identity of the suspects. They are asking
ethnicity. What do they look like? What build, age, something, and they are being very secretive about what these people look like.
BLOOM: Including to the third suspect, who is still at large. I am surprised at this point, we do not have a description.
WHITFIELD: And, you know, they actually -- they are -- they seem to be a little unsure as to at least what we saw before the show. I think they are
a little uncertain that this third suspect that they are detaining is actually linked.
[21:45:06] PINSKY: The one. That is right. Exactly.
WHITFIELD: They are not sure, yet.
PINSKY: Very quickly. Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: So, since 2000 and maybe 2001, I do not recall, I am not entirely sure when Columbine happened, but since then
there has been a shooting at least once a year.
And, the media tends to centralize your eyes on who did it? What did it? Why did they do it? In Columbine, it was two kids who were being bullied,
and then they went and said, "You know what? We are tired of being bullied."
PINSKY: Well, no. Clearly, now, that was thoroughly investigated, those kids had severe mental health issues.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: True . True.
PINSKY: Who also were being bullied.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: But, they were also being bullied.
PINSKY: I get you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: The kid in Arizona started off being bullied then started taking pills and then decided, "Hey, I am going to go
shoot up a theater." Now, you are talking about three people who worked for a mental health situation, you never know if they have been
disgruntled. If they had their own mental illness. We do not know any information yet.
PINSKY: Right. That is right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: But, who is to actually leave that out on the way?
PINSKY: Absolutely. I mean it could be some sort of shared delusion even, who knows? But, it does not fit the usual patterns. And, as I say -- I
know, why Cheryl -- I saw you bristles when I say I heard law enforcement interviewed by Anderson Cooper say that they were frightened because this
did not fit any patterns that they were used to seeing. And, us in mental health, we are seeing the same thing.
DORSEY: Well, I think that is because it is going to cause police agencies around the world to do things differently now, right? We have become
accustomed to handling situations and certain way and so we train and we practice that way.
That does not work anymore. So, now, we are going to have to go back to the lab and we are going to do something different. But, for me, Dr. Drew,
I think -- when this is all over, I do not know, I just have a gut feeling that somehow, these three people have issue with the people that were in
that room.
PINSKY: I think you are right. I think you are right. We will be right back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (1): Are you ready? Because if you are not cool, I am not walking him, bitch.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): Thank you, thank you. Try to relax, everyone. Try to relax. I will take a bullet before you do, that is for
damn sure. Just be cool, OK?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: We have a breaking news. I am back with Judy, Vanessa, Dondre, Lisa and joining us, civil rights activist, Ernie White. What you were
looking at there was cell phone video taken by Gabi Flores, an employee in one of the building attacked today or next to where the attack occurred.
In case you did not hear what was said was, "I will take a bullet before you do, that is for damn sure." Ernie, a lot of talk about guns tonight.
Where do you ring on this?
ERNIE WHITE, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: You know, I hear a lot of talk about guns tonight and it is an unfortunate event that happened today. And, when
I hear people say that having an unarmed America is a solution. It does not sound like a solution to me.
PINSKY: I have to be honest. When France happened -- I do not have a dog in the fight, right? I do not really have a strong anti-gun or gun
feeling, but I will be damn. When that happened in Paris, I just think I got to get a gun. That was the feeling I had. I got to be honest. I was
not happy about that feeling, but that was the feeling I had.
WHITE: And, as they are doing this terrorist training, they are telling us that the way you defend yourself is to hide, to get yourself behind a
table, to find some curtains that you can hide behind, and I am starting to believe that may be it would be nice if just one of those people there had
a gun to shoot those son of a guns and end this thing.
BLOOM: So, really? Really, people with developmental disabilities, they should have AK-47s? I mean if more guns is the answer, how many do we
need, because 300 million is not cutting it.
WHITFIELD: At all and I am going to say this. You stand a better chance of actually killing an innocent person, putting a gun --
PINSKY: It is not an innocent person. I also worried more or being used at home when somebody gets upset, which is the statistics.
WHITFIELD: Yes.
PINSKY: But, I am worried these days that if you start defending yourself with a gun in an active situation, the police are going to shoot you.
WHITFIELD: Yes.
HO: Right.
WHITE: Yes. But, Dr. Drew, the police have something they call, Yoyo time. And, that means you are on your own. And, when those people are
running around hiding and afraid, they are on their own. And, the police, when they get there, they have to assess that situation. They are not
running in with their guns blazing. You got to somehow figure yourself out there.
BARNETT: They are not pointing any guns at --
WHITE: They are in there 30 minutes, you know, just terrified. Nobody to help her.
PINSKY: I want to show you another tape of a witness who spoke to Anderson Cooper just minutes ago. He was on the scene when the shootout with the
car, the black SUV broke out. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID DANELSKI, REPORTER, THE PRESS ENTERPRISE (via phone): A thunderous outbreak of gunfire. Police officers yelling for me to get down. All of
the guns were drawn, and then as just was going on, waves and waves and waves of police officers were coming from behind me. And, the gunfire was
kind of sporadic. It would fire up.
I did my best to stay low. I manage to cross the street and hid -- I got into a front yard and hid behind a block wall. I heard more shooting and
everything, which is really silent, but there are police just all over the place with guns guarded and agitated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Ernie, do you at least agree with me that if we have to arm up, it is kind of a defeat in a way?
WHITE: I think you got the second amendment and the reason you are arming up is to protect your family and the people around you. Here is the deal.
If you take away guns, the criminals are always going to have theirs. The monsters are going to have theirs.
BLOOM: I am tired.
PINSKY: Lisa --
WHITE: And, that monsters breaks into your house -- and that monster breaks into your house, he or she will have their weapon and if you are
just going to run and hide, you are defenseless.
PINSKY: I got to wrap it up, after the break. We got to go. Be right back.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: We are back. And, I want to give Lisa a chance to respond Ernie.
BLOOM: Well, I think the position that we need more guns comes from fear.
PINSKY: Yes.
BLOOM: And, everybody is in a lot of fear today. And, fear does not generally respond well to facts. But, the facts are in the countries that
banned assault weapons that require background checks, they just do not have anywhere near the level of gun homicides that we have. The fact is we
have to not be in fear. We have to not be despondent. We have to join together to beat this problem.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: OK. I cannot disagree with any of that. I just have to say. I do not recognize this -- I feel like we are in a new world, I thought so
after Sandy Hook, and I more convince now. I do not know the answers to these things.
But, I do know we have to figure this out. We have to get better. I agree with you, Lisa that we have to find a way. That is one thing we have
always been able to do as Americans, we cannot let one another down now.
Reminder, you can DVR the show. You can watch it anytime. You can also find us on Snap Chat. I want to thank you all for watching tonight. I
want to thank our panelist. I want to thank the audience. Take care of yourself. Keep people you love around tonight. You got to need them close
by. See you next time.
[22:00:00] (MUSIC PLAYING)
END
