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Dr. Drew
President Obama Now Calls The San Bernardino Shooting An "Act Of Terrorism". Aired 9-10p ET
Aired December 07, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:08] DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Good evening. President Obama now calls the San Bernardino shooting an, "Act of terrorism." That is a
quote, "Act of terrorism." But, his response to terror on American soil, is it strong enough? Lot of varying opinions. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRES. BARACK OBAMA, U.S. PRESIDENT: Extremist ideology has spread within some Muslim communities. That is a real problem, that Muslims must
confront without excuse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FARHANA KHERA, PRESIDENT, MUSLIM ADVOCATES: This is not Islam. This is a death cult. These are people, who are taking a religious tradition
and using it for their, frankly, twisted political agenda.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRES. OBAMA: It is our responsibility to reject proposals that Muslim Americans should somehow be treated differently.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONAL TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I want surveillance of these people. I want surveillance if we have to and I do not care. I want --
are you ready for this, folks? Are you ready?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRES. OBAMA: If we are to succeed in defeating terrorism, we must enlist Muslim communities as some of our strongest allies, rather than push
them away through suspicion and hate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: He said something so politically incorrect. That is why we are going to hell, because we are so politically incorrect. Such a big
deal. Such a big deal. I want surveillance of certain mosques, OK?
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joining me, Vanessa Barnett from HipHollywooi.com; Judy Ho, Clinical Psychologist, Professor at Pepperdine University; Alfonzo Rachel,
Christian Conservative Commentator. Lisa Bloom, Civil Rights Attorney at the Bloom Firm and Legal Analyst for Avo.com and Maz Jobrani, Author of
"I`m not a terrorist, but Played One on T.V."
(AUDIENCE CHEERING AND APPLAUDING)
Today, Donald Trump called for a, quote, "Total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States. He tweeted, "There is an influx of
hatred and danger coming into our country." Vanessa, where are you with this?
VANESSA BARNETT, HIPHOLLYWOOD.COM: I would say --
PINSKY: I know Trump makes you happy.
BARNETT: So, many times.
PINSKY: I know he makes you happy.
BARNETT: This man is a racist. He is a bigot. And, we cannot keep just listening to these things that he spouts off for shock value. I
cannot believe he honestly things she is the man every Muslim, because of the actions of a small subset of radical people, like I cannot believe he
honestly thinks that way.
PINSKY: Alfonso, I heard on a commentary last night that the prevailing party in France right now -- it is not the one in power, but the
one that is rising its popularity is asking that their influx be -- their immigration be toned down from 200,000 to 5,000 and no Muslims, same exact
thing as Donald Trump. They have gone from being one of the more open and borderless societies to completely shutting down. What is happening?
ALFONZO RACHEL, CHRISTIAN CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR: Well, when these things happen, you know, history shows us that this stuff has happened
before, you know. When we have -- let us say, for instance, the Moors Empire, you know.
They did a lot -- They did a lot of tying into the vine when it comes to taking over Europe. They did a lot of that. They seen it before. They
have seen the subjugation of things that comes down the pipe. So, right now, they are kind of reliving this stuff again.
And, they are saying, "You know what?" You guys might -- we have seen this before. You guys might want to take a cue from this. America, might
want to wake up." This is not about --
PINSKY: What do you think? What do you think we should do?
RACHEL: Well, the attitude I would say is, it is not about hatred for love -- or hatred for Muslims or anything like that. I do not promote the
hatred of anybody.
PINSKY: Is it pragmatism?
RACHEL: It is about the love of what we are defending. That is what it really comes down to. You know, compassion and common sense is not all
just demonstrated and say, "OK, you know, let us just embrace and let us just open our arms, and take it in."
PINSKY: Right. But --
RACHEL: Sometimes it is about the love of who we have here.
PINSKY: But, I think what we are going about, what we are going to end up arguing about tonight is to what extent? How far do we go?
JUDY HO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Right.
PINSKY: How much do we give up, even if it is for a while, to defend the thing we love? I mean the greatest -- Right. The greatest sort of
potential source of freedom, the greatest potential for the advancement of the climate is this country, we believe, but In order for this country to
survive we may have to do something --
RACHEL: Doc, we cannot put a number on that. We cannot put a number on that. Nobody is going to be satisfied with this arbitrary number. I
mean we are going to be arguing cornflakes and apple jacks as far as that goes. I mean we need -- these seats need seat belts if we want to try to
take that ride. You know what I am saying?
PINSKY: Maz?
MAZ JOBRANI, AUTHOR, "I`M NOT A TERRORIST: You know, I actually was born in Iran and I came to America at the revolution of -- the Iranian
revolution. So, I am an immigrant, who came from a Muslim country. And, if this were in effect at that time, I would not have been able to come.
PINSKY: This being this blockade of Syrian refugees, blockade of Muslims, you would have been stuck?
JOBRANI: Yes. Yes. And, most of the people that are leaving these countries including myself when we left Iran, we were going -- getting away
from the regime. And, for us to come to this country, and then to have people turn it in our face and say you should not be here.
And, at the time, people were getting beaten up and they were getting killed for being Iranian. And, now, we are going after people that are
getting way from the terror and the war that is out there.
So, we should be welcoming those people. And, secondly, the bigger question to Donald Trump is, how are you going to prove who is a Muslim?
What? Do you got a multiple choice question at the border?
HO: Right.
PINSKY: But, I understand what you are saying. But --
RACHEL: If I could say really quick. You know, but the bottom line is, a lot of these people are deciding to come here despite their states
being Islamic states. We do not have people trying to rush out of america Because of how hateful we are.
[21:05:06] PINSKY: Yes.
RACHEL: People are rushing to America because of how hateful other people are. They are afraid for their lives.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Right.
BARNETT: But, then if we push them away, what are we pushing them to. We could push these people into radicalism. We could be pushing these
people in --
RACHEL: I am not understanding how America is seen as the most bigoted, corrupted, racist nation, but somehow everybody still wants to
come here.
PINSKY: Right. Exactly.
RACHEL: It does not add up.
PINSKY: It is interesting, right? If it is so great elsewhere, stay elsewhere, right?
RACHEL: Something like that.
PINSKY: Now, one of the neighbors of the San Bernardino killers was reportedly suspicious of the couple, but did not report them because they
did not want to be seen as profiling or sexist or racist. So, Judy, have we gone so far towards politically correct that our safety is being
impaired?
HO: This is exactly what we have been talking about for so long on your show, Dr. Drew, is that people do not see something and say something
for fear that might happen, the judgment that might come upon them, if they say --
PINSKY: They might lose their job.
HO: -- Hey, by the way --
PINSKY: They might lose their job.
HO: Exactly.
PINSKY: They might lose their standing in the community.
HO: The community -- what the community thinks of them.
PINSKY: Yes.
HO: They probably did not want to rile something up and have these neighbors come over later. But, this is the thing. We should, as soon as
we see anything suspicious, we cannot be thinking about the politically correctness of things anymore, because there is a lot of fear out there.
And, you need to leave it to the professionals if you are not sure. If you see something suspicious, I believe they should just report it to
the police and let them make the determination.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: You know what? Hang on a second. Lisa -- but Lisa, hold on, I saw you nodding vigorously when Maz was talking. And, I know where you
are at with this. But, is not what is at issue here that people -- everyone is defining this situation somewhat differently? I heard someone
at CNN keep saying that, you know, FDR, Roosevelt took much more aggressive action than even anywhere near what Donald Trump is talking about.
LISA BLOOM, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY AND LEGAL ANALYST: Yes.
PINSKY: Because we were at war.
BLOOM: Yes. He rounded up Japanese-Americans, one of the greatest mistakes in American history.
PINSKY: And, pushed out Italians, and kept Jews out of here.
BLOOM: Yes.
PINSKY: A lot of bad things we do not feel good about now, but I heard there was a defining of the situation differently than perhaps we are
defining it now. The question I will ask you, are we at war?
BLOOM: Well, I think we are at war --
PINSKY: So, therefore --
BLOOM: -- with jihadist terrorism. That is true.
PINSKY: Hold on. If we are at war, the question becomes at what lengths are we willing to go to win in war, right?
BLOOM: I do not think so. I mean going back to Donald Trump, he has gone from a laughing stock to a truly dangerous person now, reminiscent of
Joseph McCarthy in our history.
I mean this was a figure who wanted to round up everybody for a suspicion of communism. And, yes, we had issues with communism at the
time, but that was a very dangerous dark chapter in our history. I do not think anybody wants to go back to rounding up people based on religion,
based on skin color. I think we have to be careful when talk about those people --
PINSKY: But, now, we are rounding up people -- we are rounding up college professors based on them micro-aggressing against students or
seeming to be racist.
BLOOM: Well, we are not rounding them up.
PINSKY: That is our new bat that we are hitting people with to the point where people are unsafe in their own community. Well, Alfonzo, you
are nodding yes.
RACHEL: Uh-huh.
BLOOM: No.
PINSKY: You agree with me.
BARNETT: That is not it.
PINSKY: He agrees with me.
BARNETT: We are not rounding up white males when, statistically, they are the ones that shoot up the schools, and shoot up the movie theaters and
shoot up the church.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
BLOOM: That is right.
BARNETT: We are not rounding up white men. Meanwhile, we are rounding up all these other people.
PINSKY: I am not saying we should round anybody up. Trust me. I am just throwing up polemic. But, I do believe we are using a bat very similar
to the bat we use that we called communism. Now, we are using a bat we called racism. Do you agree, Alfonzo?
BLOOM: Yes.
RACHEL: I do agree.
PINSKY: Yes.
RACHEL: And, right now, that is the thing that is easily used to discredit anybody who has a dissenting opinion. And, you know, racism, it
has been a plague on our nation for a long time.
And, the thing about racism, you all, is that unfortunately we are getting played into it, because racism equals money and votes. Do not you
think it is kind of strange that in 2015 it has not died yet? I mean, come on now. It really comes down to ratings. They are feeding off of it.
They are bleeding people with racism.
PINSKY: Maz, last thoughts then I got to go to break.
JOBRANI: My question is, what did she see that was suspicious?
BLOOM: Right.
JOBRANI: If she saw them doing something, like walking around with guns or whatever that like was suspicious, then, OK, report it. But, if
she saw a dude with a Muslim prayer cap and a beard --
PINSKY: No.
HO: No, there were specific acts.
JOBRANI: You cannot call that in.
HO: No. There were specific acts like they had lots of packages being delivered. They were working at all hours in the night in the garage
on building things.
PINSKY: And, no cars.
HO: And, this went on several days at a time --
BLOOM: So, you profile behavior, not skin color.
PINSKY: Yes. Profile behavior, not skin color.
BLOOM: That is what it should be.
PINSKY: Exactly.
BLOOM: That is the way to do it.
PINSKY: That is right. Listen.
HO: But, I think that they should let the police determine that. Just report it and let the police deal with it.
PINSKY: Report it. Although, I have heard people frustrated with some of these reporting systems we have in California, that they get sort
of pushed back on, "Hey, you are profiling." It is something like that -- None of us would have profile --
HO: Yes.
PINSKY: And, this reminds me back in the day when people used to accuse people of wanting nuclear war. Nobody wants racism. Nobody wants
Muslims to be marginalized or feel bad. -- Uh-oh.
RACHEL: Like I just said, racism is delicious to a lot of people.
(LAUGHING)
BARNETT: Yes.
RACHELL: It is.
HO: Categorizing.
(CROSSTALK)
HO: Well, and if the human mind needs to categorize, it is easier for them to just say a whole group of people cannot do something than for them
to say, "No, it is an individual situation." It is just easier for us to make sense of it. It does not excuse it, it is just the way our brains
work.
[21:10:04] PINSKY: All right, next up, I want to talk about who was Tashfeen Malik? Was she the motivating force? Was she the radicalizing
factor in that marriage? She shot first. Apparently, he was frozen but then followed her in this event. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: Right now we have one down outside the car, one down inside the car.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRES. OBAMA: It is clear that two of them had gone down the dark path of radicalizations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: The president calling the California rampage, quote, "An act of terror" and say that the shooters embraced a
perverted form of Islam.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: We have some brand new clues this morning. If the wife, Tashfeen Malik, could have been the driving force in
this attack?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBIN MEADE, HLN HOST OF "ROBIN MEADE" PROGRAM: This is Tashfeen Malik and Syed Rizwan Farook entering the United States at Chicago`s O`Hare
Airport.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[21:15:00] EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Just over a year after she was allowed into this country, she carries out the deadliest
terror -- domestic terrorist attack in this country since 9/11.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: She left a 6-month-old baby.
BLOOM: Yes.
MANETTE: As a mother, how could you leave your 6-month-old baby and go kill people?
PINSKY: Yes. Listen --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: It is possible that she sort of played a lady Macbeth role here, strengthening the spine of her husband.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Was Tashfeen Malik the mastermind behind the San Bernardino massacre? U.S. Officials say this is very possible. I am back with
Vanessa, Judy, Alfonzo, Lisa and Maz. So, Vanessa, just like what was brought up there by Danine, a 29-year-old mother of a 6-month-old infant.
BARNETT: Shocking.
PINSKY: Right.
BARNETT: I mean I was here when we heard it.
PINSKY: That is right.
BARNETT: And, we were floored that, that was a woman.
PINSKY: We were floored that it was even a woman.
BARNETT: That it was even a woman.
PINSKY: But now it is a mom with a 6-month-old. So, my question and I want to get around the room with this a little bit. To me, this is --
When somebody shot up a first grade classroom in Connecticut, I thought we crossed a line.
I think this is another line. Because it is not very far from, "I do not care about my kid, I am going to go shoot somebody up to. I am going
to use my kid as a barrier, or a weapon, or a bomb or something." And, that is a disgusting --
BARNETT: Absolutely.
PINSKY: -- expression of humanity that we have crossed one giant step closer to.
BARNETT: And, it is scary because we cannot wrap our minds around it. So, how do we attack it?
PINSKY: How do we defend ourselves?
BARNETT: Exactly, against them.
PINSKY: If I was faced with that, I would be completely unable to face it. I will be paralyzed.
BARNETT: Absolutely.
PINSKY: Right?
HO: Absolutely. I mean this is exactly what we are dealing with. You know, none of us can actually fathom, you know, what -- go through
somebody`s mind when they do this. And, when you cannot understand that level of, basically, detachment from humanity --
PINSKY: Depravity. Depravity.
HO: Yes. There is no reason for her -- her idea of life is so different from most of us. I mean it is just difficult for us to know how
to fight that.
BARNETT: It is harder.
PINSKY: It is starting to be looked at as a death cult. I mean I think that is the way to understand what is happening with some of these
people. It is a cult. It has taken a page from every other cult in terms of how they indoctrinate people into it. The religious death cult. Right,
Alfonzo, would you agree?
RACHEL: I would have to agree even though that is politically incorrect to say. If you take it to this. Now, if we say that, you know,
it is a death cult, where are they receiving these ideas from?
Now, I am going to go ahead and say it. I am going to say, they are receiving these ideas from the Quran. Now, this is not an attack on the
Quran when I say that. But, we have to ask, how is it that they come to this interpretation of these teachings? Where are they getting this from?
PINSKY: Well, yes, that -- and I think there are people who would say, "Look, if this were happening in my community, we would take care of
it. We would take care of business." My understanding is that there are people out there that are advocating within the Muslim community to do
exactly this. But, Judy, you have some details about the family, right?
HO: Yes, I do. So, both of them actually have been speaking to each other for several years, probably four or five years before all of this
happened.
PINSKY: The two of them were?
HO: Yes. They had met on a --
PINSKY: My understanding was this guy had trouble meeting girls and his mom got worried about him and started setting him up with people and
found this woman. Am I right on that?
HO: Yes. She helped him get on a Muslim dating site.
PINSKY: And, the mom had some radical ideas, too, I heard. Right?
HO: Right. That is true. That is kind of the word on the street is that she actually pushed him into this, because she was kind of a shy
person. Did not really speak very often. And, so, she told him, "Why will not you get on this Muslim dating site." That is where they met several
years ago.
So, in 2013, he travelled to Saudi Arabia for the first time to meet her in person. And, at that time, she had just graduated from a university
in Pakistan with a degree in pharmacy. He went back in the summer of 2014 and that was when he picked her up to bring her over here. She entered the
country on a K-1 visa, passed all the Homeland Security tests for anti- terrorism, by the way. They had already --
PINSKY: But, by the way, have you seen the questions? It is like, "Are you a terrorist?" "Have you ever been involved with a terrorist
organization?"
(LAUGHING)
HO: Right.
PINSKY: Do you think, they will step forward --
HO: So, we need to look in that. But, she actually has permanent legal status now because they got married at a mosque here in the United
States. So, now, they are legally recognized as a married couple and she has permanent residence in the United States at the time of this crime.
PINSKY: And, they have a child that is a citizen?
HO: Yes.
PINSKY: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. You know -- well, my question is why are not we screening the people that are coming inside this
country every time they come in? I feel that we are giving out a lot of tourist visas to a lot of individuals that are coming in here and we are
not giving any type of screening --
PINSKY: But, is not that what -- say what you will about Donald Trump, is not that what he is advocating, he is doing everything and
anything possible?
BARNETT: No. No, he is saying block them and do not let them in.
RACHEL: Well, yes. He is just saying get them out of here.
PINSKY: Yes, but he said keep everybody out until we figure out what is going on, and then start --
BLOOM: And, when is that going to happen?
PINSKY: I do not know, Lisa. I do not know --
BLOOM: So, indefinitely. So, he is saying keep Muslims out -- he would keep Maz out. He would keep my Muslim employees out. He would keep
my best friend, who lives next door to me, who is Muslim, out. Donald Trump wants to get rid of all the Muslims. Keep them all out. I mean let
us be very clear about what he said today.
PINSKY: so, what do we do?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Well, my think of it is I think we need to educate the youth on not just worrying about who is President, but
when you go out and vote, go out and vote congressionally.
PINSKY: Uh-huh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: That means we find out who is in congress, because they are the ones that make the last decision on who is
coming in this country, about the reform -- the laws going on in the country. They are the last ones that do that. So, we need to go and find
people that can get in there and that can vote for things to be better.
[21:20:05] PINSKY: All right. I mean congress makes the laws. Maz?
JOBRANI: You know, what you said earlier about this lady and that she had a child and she did this, it is unbelievable.
PINSKY: It is unbelievable.
JOBRANI: It is unbelievable.
PINSKY: It is unbelievable, right?
JOBRANI: And, that leads to what I have always said about the people who do this, they are obviously psychologically unstable. I call them
criminals. They are criminals. And that is the thing is that whenever -- when the guy goes into newtown and shoots people up, we say, "OK, It is one
crazy individual."
HO: Right.
JOBRANI: So, when somebody does this, it becomes a hunt for all Muslims, keep them all out and it goes back to what she said earlier.
These are unstable individuals --
PINSKY: Yes.
JOBRANI: -- who then are converted to this radicalism.
PINSKY: In a cult.
JOBRANI: It is basically what --
PINSKY: In a cult.
JOBRANI: Yes. But --
PINSKY: But -- but I am going to say -- I am fascinated last couple of times you have been on this show you have not brought this up. You
usually brought up that you are more likely to be killed by a domestic terrorist, which is true, factually.
But, there is no organization of domestic terrorists saying, "We are coming to get you." This is an organization saying we are going to destroy
your way of life. We are going to destroy your country and we are coming - -
BLOOM: That is not exactly true.
BARNETT: They said they were coming to kick us, to destroy us.
PINSKY: And you know what? The Christians kicked some ass on that and took care of it.
(CROSSTALK)
BARNETT: And, that is what Barack Obama is saying. He is saying, let us get the Muslim community --
RACHEL: Yes. We stand up against it and we are very vocal about it.
PINSKY: Yes.
BARNETT: -- make them our friends, make them our allies and work let us together.
PINSKY: I agree with that.
BARNETT: -- and get the radicals out. Not just boot everybody out. Put up a fence and keep them out.
PINSKY: Listen, I am with you. I am not Mr. Trump, but I am just saying -- the question is, how far do we go?
HO: Right.
PINSKY: Listen, I have expertise in certain areas. Judy, you know it is to be an expert. I know I did really -- this is crazy making. But, it
feels like, and I think the reason people got so upset with Barack Obama, is it feels like not enough.
It feels like the plane is going down, the pilot comes out and goes, "We are going to keep doing what we are doing." Wait a minute. It is the
same as I tell people, it is the same as if somebody broke into a house.
And, let us say, Judy you are 9 years old, you come up to me, you go, "Daddy, daddy, are we going to be OK? And, daddy goes, "Hey, first of all,
I need to understand -- do not feel bad about that guy that came in here and he had his reasons. Do not you dare think anything about that."
"Daddy, are we going to be OK?" Uh, forget -- I am going to keep things the way they have always been. Well, somebody just broke into my house.
BARNETT: But, Daddy, they did not steal the house or burned down.
PINSKY: As opposed to, "Honey, we are going to take care of it. Do not worry about it. It is done. And, we are going to get these guys."
But be careful, side note. Do not let your -- you might have some feelings and watch out for that. You do not want to feel about people generally.
Those are one sect, as you say, members of a cult.
JOBRANI: Yes. Listen. It is a complicated situation. I as a comedian, I have toured all over the Middle East and I know every Muslim I
met. I have never met a terrorist. Every Muslim I met is a good person.
BLOOM: Yes.
JOBRANI: They love their kids. They would never do something like this.
BLOOM: Yes.
JOBRANI: And, unfortunately, when we see something like this, then we say, OK, what is our reaction? Let us go attack Syria. Well, you know
what is going to happen when you attack Syria? You are going to end up killing innocent Syrians as part of war and then it will be easier to
convert more of these people that are unstable.
PINSKY: Yes.
BLOOM: Yes.
PINSKY: Exactly right. Yes, ma`am.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
BLOOM: That is right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: So, everybody is talking about how shocked they are that this woman have a 6-month-old baby and do this.
Well, this is the same woman that went to the baby shower that they threw for her -- she knew these people. They brought her gifts.
HO: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I think she had the baby to make her look more normal, more regular, so that they could -- It was a ruse.
PINSKY: That is the part. That is the line. If it is true or if it is just she does not care about the baby enough, have normal maternal
instincts, whichever line is crossed they are very similar and they are equally depraved. And, to me, again, it is just a matter of time before it
goes to its final conclusion, which is children become bombs, shields, other means to manipulate to their ends.
Next up, adderrall, other medicines found at the killer`s home. I will tell you what that could mean. We are back after this.
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(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[21:27:47] BLOOM: Nobody is talking about the woman in this dual, right? So we are talking about how did he get radicalized. Well, he has
lived in the U.S. all of his life. She just came over on a fiance visa in 2014. Perhaps, she was the radical.
PINSKY: Absolutely. She may radicalized him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: There it is, Lisa, confirming what you theorized last week that Tashfeen Malik had been radicalized, quote, "for some time." Back with
Vanessa, Judy, Alfonzo, and Lisa. Joining us, Bobby Chacon, FBI Special Agent retired.
Sunny Times of London is reporting that investigators discovered bottles of Xanax and adderall in the couple`s home. People had made a lot
of this. I am telling you, do not make much of this. It suggests maybe somebody had some ADD.
It will be interesting to see who the physician is prescribing that. I want to talk to that guy or gal, whoever is she or he might be. The
Xanax is an anti-anxiety medicine in withdrawal. People can get pretty agitated.
The adderall can add -- even if it is being abused, they can get psychotic from that, but they have to use a lot of it. So, we would have
to hear some evidence that that was going on. But, I cannot make much of that. This does not seem -- Judy is agreeing with me on this. This does
not seem like that kind of phenomenon.
HO: No, I mean this is absolutely. The idea of the radical idealization of these two individuals not so much that they maybe had
anxiety and overused some drugs and decided in a shared delusion that pieces together over months of time that go shoot 21 people.
PINSKY: No. No, but Lisa, you called it. I mean -- What is it with us and Saudi Arabia? Are we good with them, bad with them? You know what
I mean?
BLOOM: We should not be good with them.
PINSKY: People go there and get radicalized and coming start killing us?
BLOOM: It is the most religiously extreme country in the world, where women cannot even drive. And, for the most part, cannot vote, cannot
travel without a male family member over the age of 3 giving them permission. Are you kidding me?
I mean, so, it was obvious to me that she had spent so much time in Saudi Arabia. That last week, whenever we were saying, how did he become
so radicalized, you know, there was another adult in the room. I am sorry to say, and it was her. And, it seemed likely that she was the one who was
more radical and now we are hearing that.
But, it also shows me how we should not profile based on race, based on gender, based on anything else. Everyone was so shocked. There is a
woman -- there is a lot of female terrorists in Israel, for example. There has been a whole spate of them recently.
PINSKY: All right, Bobby, help us with that. We should not be profiling or should we be profiling better?
[21:30:00] BOBBY CHACON, FBI SPECIAL AGENT (RET.): Well, I think -- Yes, I think you are right. I think we need to broaden our profile, if
anything. I was not surprised at all that a woman was involved in this event. You are right, we have had woman suicide bombers for decades. I
mean I do not think this should surprise anybody -- Oh, it is the first time, we have seen one tactically participate to this level, sure. But, it
is a natural progression.
PINSKY: With an a recent mother, too.
BLOOM: Yes.
CHACON: You know what? That is another thing that does not really surprise me. I mean I think that the relationship between parent and child
in that culture is different than our own, and we are thinking of this to our own lens --
BLOOM: What?
CHACON: -- as we think of parent and children relationship --
BLOOM: Are you saying that Muslims do not love their children? These two people are sociopaths, right?
CHACON: No. I think they look at it differently.
BLOOM: What?
CHACON: I think -- Personally, I think that when she came over, she may have -- this was her radicalization of him. And, I think that, you
know, him leaving a legacy behind, we are going beyond and I am going to have your child. And, you will be able to leave a legacy and then we will
both go on to martyrdom. And, I think that is what they live for. I think that is what they die for.
PINSKY: So, the child was depositing a legacy somewhere? Crazy. Now, you told me something, though, about happening within the Muslim
community that gives me some hope. Tell me about this.
CHACON: Well, I do not think that any of this can be solved without the engagement of the Muslim community, correct? So, I think, over the
weekend about 15 American-Muslim associations who got together. The American forum for -- the American-Islamic forum for democracy, they issued
a press release that contains the Muslim or foreign movement platform.
And, it stands for three things basically. And, again, I am not an expert in this, but I read the press release and I am impressed with what
it says. It says, "One plank is minority, women and equal rights for everyone including minorities, including women in every process of
government, in every process of society." The other one is, "Nonviolence in all forms. It rejects all types of violence." And, the third one is,
"Secular governance and the separation of church and state."
PINSKY: And, Alfonzo, it seems to me that if they post that, like almost like a reformation, sort of declaration, any community that does not
sign up for that is taking a stand, right? Taking a stand against that. Would you agree?
CHACON: I would agree. But, you know, somehow, you know, this stand is being take. It is kind of like standing on like one leg or the knees
are kind of weak as far as we are concerned. We are just not really seeing the outrage. And, a lot of it, I think outrage is not coming because of
fear.
PINSKY: I was going to say, they may be scared, too. But, I do not know.
BLOOM: You know, there is a lot of Muslims outraged.
CHACON: I think that speaks volume to the Islamic culture that these people are afraid. You know, it is not so much that, "OK, well, we do not
want to speak out against our faith. We are afraid too."
BLOOM: OK. This is just not true. It is not accurate. I am sorry. It was just trending on twitter #youaintnomuslimbruv in England.
PINSKY: It was a British thing. It was a British thing.
BLOOM: Yes, but all over the world that was trending.
PINSKY: Yes.
BLOOM: Muslims have constantly stood up against terrorism. Muslims are the most frequent victims of terrorism all over the world.
PINSKY: Sooner, they are as likely to be victimized in this country as any of us. Again, I like calling it a death cult. I am fascinated by
something. You are wearing Frederick Douglass` shirt tonight.
RACHEL: Yes, sir.
PINSKY: And, is that conscious in terms of what we are talking about tonight? How would he have approached this? And, explain to people who he
is, so that people understand. Well, no -- I mean, in this country, you know --
(LAUGHING)
RACHEL: Frederick Douglass was --
PINSKY: People do not study their history very well.
(LAUGHING)
RACHEL: Frederick Douglass was an abolitionist.
PINSKY: Former slave.
RACHEL: Former slave. Became Deputy Marshall --
PINSKY: Brilliant.
RACHEL: Brilliant guy. One of his quotes, "I am a dyed in the wool republican." So, Frederick Douglass was a God-fearing, dyed wool
republican and strong man in the war against slavery.
PINSKY: And, can we take a page from his book? What would he say today? I wondered if that is why you were wearing the shirt. He would say
take any measures necessary.
RACHEL: Exactly. I mean he is basically your precursor to Malcolm X by any means necessary. And, he says, "if you want your freedom, be ready
to fight for it." That is how he rolled.
PINSKY: All right, I want to hear from the audience. Somebody is taking a mic right now. Go right ahead. Yes, ma`am?
DELISSA CARR (ph), AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hello, Delisa Carr.
PINSKY: Hi, Delissa.
CARR: And, I am going to come straight for the jugular.
PINSKY: OK.
CARR: We have 11.5 million illegal immigrants. I think we are doing wonderful. OK? But, when you stand up on T.V. and you say it three weeks
ago -- I heard it in Virginia. President Obama, we coming and it is going to be on the saw. That was San Bernardino.
And, do not get mad at me. I am a Christian. If we go back, Martin Luther King, when we marched for people, what he said? I have been to the
mountain top. My eyes have seen the coming of the Lord." America has gotten away from God. You cannot -- you are not going to make it.
You ask me, I am going to tell you, people, because I am frustrated. I am tired. I am 57 myself and I have seen this world change. This is a
great country. I went to Africa. Cannot even go to the sink to get water and you are saying there is no God?
Oh, please! Come on, people. We fought. We stood up. We are not saying bad people doing wrong, but everybody needs to do right. What did
he say? God said you are all my people. Do you understand what I am saying, Lisa?
[21:35:00] BLOOM: Uh-huh.
CARR: I saw you arguing on T.V.
BLOOM: I do.
CARR: We got to start putting our heads in the water.
PINSKY: I would be hard pressed to find anyone who will disagree with you in principle. Forget the forum where you are standing. We are all
deeply moved, deeply moved by what she is saying.
(LAUGHING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
BLOOM: And, you can preach. You can preach my sister.
PINSKY: But, I may live in principle that we have a spiritual vacuum in this country; however, you choose to understand that. I think there is
something to that. And, we need to look home a little bit.
CARR: Please, put me to the test. Try him. That is all I am saying. Thank you, Lord.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: All right. Coming up -- coming up, reporters were led into the killer`s home -- Vanessa, you want to follow up with that?
BARNETT: I cannot follow up with that.
PINSKY: I did not think so.
What effect might that have on the investigation? Reporters were in there along with the investigators. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID BOWDICH, FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR IN CHARGE: Both subjects were radicalized and have been for quite some time. Now, how did that happen?
The questions we are trying to get, is how did that happen and by whom and where did that happen? And, I will tell you right now, we do not know
those answers at this point.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: A person said, "We sort of knew what was going on but we did not want to profile it." Can you believe this?
JOHN DICKERSON, CBS HOST ON "FACE THE NATION" PROGRAM: Should we be profiling?
TRUMP: Well, I think there can be profiling.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRES. OBAMA: Muslim-Americans are our friends and our neighbors, our co-workers, our sports heroes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Now, you have people that have to be tracked. If they are Muslims, they are Muslims. But, you have people that have to be tracked.
And , we better be -- I use the word vigilance. We have to show vigilance. We have to have it and if we do not, we are foolish people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Vanessa, Judy, Alfonzo, who is the host of Zo Nation on PJTV.com. I also have Lisa and Bobby. Now, the 81-year-old man,
who rented the apartment to the San Bernardino killers allowed journalists inside. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I was the first person to walk into this room and saw how it was before everyone started touching it.
And, you can see that police did go through and look at many things. I do not want to show you these I.D.s over here just because I do not want to
show you those addresses that are on there.
But, I do believe that they belong to the mother of Farook based on the ages that are there. But, you could see that there are some prayer
books, there are also some pictures. This is a situation where the police were done with this building and the owner was coming back in. And, so,
this is the first time he walked back in, as far as we understand, and then we walked in after him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Bobby, is that true or did they adulterate the crime scene?
CHACON: No. I think it was no longer a crime scene. The FBI has a specific mission to be there. It has spelled out in specificity in the
search warrant and I am an attorney, and I have dealt with hundreds of search warrants. And, I have also been on our evidence response team and I
can tell you that the agents had spent 24 hours in that house, took everything they needed to take and anything left behind was not of
evidentiary value.
PINSKY: Now, the other thing that is interesting for most, I guess I could link of it as an evidentiary issue. The FBI searched the home of
Enrique Marquez, who purchased the two rifles used in the attack. That man, Enrique, has not been charged with any crime. He then checks himself
into a mental health hospital, a psychiatric hospital after the attack. Lisa, what do you make of all of this?
BLOOM: Well, the question is, what did he know and when did he know it? Did he just think he is giving guns to a friend for some benign
purpose or did he know more?
PINSKY: Well, the fact that he was not arrested, good for him, right?
BLOOM: Well, it is good for him so far.
PINSKY: And, then he checked into a psych hospital. Do you think that is --
BLOOM: Well, I mean -- look, he could feel very guilty. You know, if I had known then what I know now. He may have some psychiatric issues
unrelated to this or maybe there is something more going on. We just do not know yet.
PINSKY: Judy, any ideas?
HO: Yes. I feel like, you know, the cynic in me thinks that it might have been a ploy to avoid legal action --
PINSKY: I wonder about that, because you do not usually need psychiatric hospitalization because of the stress of a couple of super bad
choices.
HO: Right.
PINSKY: I mean you need to maybe to take a vacation and really study or think about yourself a bit.
HO: Right.
PINSKY: But, I want to go to the audience. Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: A few weeks ago when you were talking about the Syrian refugees and whether or not we should let them in
--
PINSKY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: -- or keep them out. I spoken and I have said that I think they should be listening to the millionaire,
who said he would open up an island to them. And, Lisa and some of the other panel members gave me a hard time.
But, I said we do not know what is in the hearts and minds of the people coming over and until we can figure out what is going on, we should
not just openly let everybody in.
PINSKY: So, Bobby, this is back to this question.
HO: Yes.
PINSKY: To what lengths do we go? How much do we sacrifice about the things we value?
CHACON: First thing, we need to do is rephrase this thing. We are not opening the borders up to refugees. We have been accepting refugees
every year for umpteen years. We are increasing the amount of refugees we take from certain countries.
PINSKY: How do you make sure --
CHACON: We have also been accepting refugees from Syria every year.
PINSKY: -- is an adulterated population of people who wanted to destroy us? Are we at war?
CHACON: That is a tough question. I think in some respects, we are at war.
PINSKY: OK. So, how do you know that this is not part of the strategy of some enemy to get in here?
CHACON: Well, I do not think it is part of the strategy of the enemy, but I think the enemy could use this to exploit this situation and get
people in here.
PINSKY: How do you avoid that? That is the question. How do you protect our values?
(CROSSTALK)
BARNETT: Or have there been a terrorist attack by a refugee?
BLOOM: If I can response here for a minute? OK. I mean hate to interrupt all of our fear with the facts but these were not Syrian refugees
involved in this incident, right?
HO: Right.
BLOOM: This was a woman who married an American citizen. Are we to say that people cannot come over and become citizens by marrying an
American citizen? I do not think you would go that far, would you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: At the risk of sounding like Donald Trump and right now, we are in a very precarious situation. And,
because our screening processes are not really that good, I mean they are saying, "Oh, she was radicalized and she radicalized him." I do not -- I
think we should think about not letting a whole lot of people in that are from countries that hate us.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
HO: But, Dr. Drew --
BLOOM: No. You know --
PINSKY: Hang on a second. Judy?
[21:45:00] HO: This is a very slippery slope. If we do this, when will we actually lift the ban? And, I am afraid that we are becoming
radicalized in our ideas if we are going to close our borders up.
BLOOM: Thanks. That is well said.
CHACON: You know, I think closing borders is impossible.
PINSKY: But, my understanding is that the procedure to make sure somebody is not radicalized is to ask them, are you a radical? Are you
involved in a terrorist organization?
(CROSSTALK)
HO: Yes, you know, we have to work on that.
PINSKY: I mean, at least, hook them up to a skin -- you know, galvanic skin sensor or something.
CHACON: Yes, you are not going to be able to -- you are not going to be able to keep people out based on that -- that basis alone.
RACHEL: If I can interject really quick, though. I mean a lot of people think that this invasion is going to come in the form of like tanks
and horses and stuff like that.
(LAUGHING)
What is happening is, it is a cultural invasion. And, they will breed in their lifestyle. That is what is happening. They are breeding into it.
It has been done before. It has happened in Europe. It is going to happen in America.
CHACON: I think that is precisely why the engagement of the Muslim community is essential to solving this problem. Muslims are not going to
go away, right? How many billions --
PINSKY: We do not want them to go away.
(CROSSTALK)
CHACON: Right.
PINSKY: You cannot expect them to go away.
BARNETT: It sounds like you want them to go away.
BLOOM: Yes.
CHACON: We want engage them and encourage them. And, groups that came out over the weekend with this manifesto or this platform, I think
they need to be encouraged. They need to be covered by the media.
They need to be publicized. And, quite frankly, they need a little help to get steam into this movement that can only be their solution. It
has to come from within the Muslim community.
PINSKY: OK. Next up, I want to start out with the criticism that the President`s speech was getting. Some people feel -- we are all over the
place with it. The fact is I think he said some of the things that we are all talking about here today. And, why did it seem to rub people the wrong
way? We are back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CANDACE CAMERON, HOST OF "THE VIEW" PROGRAM: He was talking to us as if we were children.
WHOOPI GOLDBERG, HOST OF "THE VIEW" PROGRAM: Yes, because this speech was not for you. It was for the kids. Because everybody is saying --
CAMERON: Did he say that?
GOLDBERG: Everybody said, listen, when is he going to say something? What do I tell my kids? What should I be doing? What should I be -- So,
here he is. He comes out, he says, "Here is what is happening. Here is what happened. Here is what we are doing. Here is why we are doing it.
Here is what you should not be doing and here is what we can do." Would you have rather he was hysterical?
CAMERON: No. No, no, no, no, no, no.
GOLDBERG: Would you have rather him like -- "Do you know what is happening?"
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That was "The View" and Whoopi Goldberg on the President`s address to help us explain the war against terror. She says to our
children. There was a lot of criticism on the President`s speech and his strategy for battling ISIS. Let us take a look at a piece of it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRES. OBAMA: We will destroy ISIL and any other organization that tries to harm us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: He did not offer any new policy shifts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARCO RUBIO, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He announced nothing new other than we need gun control, even though it would have done nothing to
prevent the attack in California.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Reassurances are not enough. I think people were looking for more concrete actions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KING, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They mostly say the President has failed to grasp the scope of the problem, has not explained it in the
urgent way. They say he is wrong not to call it radical Islam terrorism.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Alfonzo, do you agree or is this just us being nitpicking or are we so scared that we need to be treated, you know, in a certain way
that we just missed? We wanted him to just tell us, "Everything is going to be OK, no matter what?"
Jerry Brown kind of did that. He got up and went, "I am going to take care of this. I am going to do what we need to do." And, then that is
that. That is all he said. And, that was good.
RACHEL: You know, I mean I could appreciate somebody -- I would rather somebody not be condescending and you know, trying to speak to the
people at a child-like level and, you know, treat them like they need to be coddled. There is an inconsistency in his message. He just take every
opportunity to intrude on people`s second amendment rights. He always makes that a policy goal.
PINSKY: What do you mean?
RACHEL: Like say, for instance in this, we need more strict gun regulations, something like that. And, the thing I do not get is, if he is
saying -- if I remember it correctly and correct me if I am wrong, please. He says we need -- if a person is going to be on the no-fly list, these are
the same people who are able to go and get guns with the way that our policy is now.
PINSKY: Yes.
RACHEL: Now -- see, that does not make any sense to me. Because, if you know that these people are on the no-fly list, and you kind of a suck
as Chief Law Enforcement Officer of the United States if you are allowing them in our country. These are people that you know --
PINSKY: Alfonzo, not only that. I am going to send this to Bobby, which is that I heard 72 members of Homeland Security are on the terror
watch list. It is like an episode of "Homeland." What is going on?
CHACON: Yes. I cannot speak for homeland security. I think some of these people on the no-fly list were already in the country when some of
this stuff happened.
BLOOM: Yes.
CHACON: Some of them could be U.S. citizens.
HO: Right.
CHACON: And, for whatever reason they are on the no-fly list. So, I do not think that many -- I know how many of them actually came in after
they were placed on that no-fly list.
PINSKY: Lisa, I will ask you that same question. What do we do in Homeland Security within our own organization organizations, dozens of
people that are on the watch list.
BLOOM: Yes. I had not heard that, but with regard to the second amendment, the Supreme Court just said today that we can ban assault
weapons. They refused to overturn an assault weapon ban. You know, what the Supreme Court said with regard to second amendment is you have the
right to have a handgun in your home. Other than that, restrictions and bans are acceptable. They have upheld hundreds of them.
PINSKY: I will tell you one of -- sort of amendments that I have a problem with, is something called the dickey amendment where clinicians,
scientists are not allowed to study what causes gun violence.
BLOOM: Yes, it is ridiculous.
PINSKY: It is ridiculous. That is bizarre.
RACHEL: Well, instead of gun control, it is a little thing called self-control. And, you know, there is a thing --
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: But, we did not study that. How does that happen? How do we become violent? Why not? Right? Do you know about this?
HO: Yes. And, learning more about it so we can prevent the problem. How do we actually improve the system? How do we help Homeland Security,
for example, identify people who might be at risk and actually put policies in place?
It is very hard for us to do that. And, I actually think right now as a nation, we do need to be a little bit coddled right now. I think we do
want to hear reassuring statements from our President that everything is going to be OK, even if it is a little bit like that butter or cherry on
top. I think that is what our country needs.
PINSKY: Vanessa, do you agree?
[21:55:00] BARNETT: Not necessarily, because I respond differently. When I see my President get up there and he is calm, cool, and collecting,
he is like, "Look, this is the problem. This is what we are going to do. This is how I think we can solve it." I feel more comfortable and I think
no speech is going to everyone`s way --
PINSKY: Satisfy everybody.
BARNETT: Right. I think that is the problem.
PINSKY: Yes.
HO: But, we are so infuriated right now, and that is why we are going to be engaging and more of these things are actually going to be pushing
people aside and making more racist types of actions. That is what I am afraid of.
PINSKY: I will tell you. I remember 9/1 -- what made me feel better, I will tell you the story right after the break.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: We are really out of time here. My panelists and guests all have something more to say. They will join me on our after show on our
Facebook page. I will tell you my quick story there about hearing Henry Kissinger speak right after 9/11, and how that was reassuring to me. He
did not have to say that much, but it got right through to me and I thought we will get those guys. Thank you all for watching. DVR us. You can
watch us anytime. Thank you, everybody. We will see you next time.
[22:00:00] (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
END
