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Dr. Drew
Outrageous Statement From Donald Trump Launches Him Further Ahead In The Polls; Some Insight From Voters Who Are Willing To Follow Trump Even Away From The Republican Party If They Necessarily Need To; Statements Of The Firearms Instructor At The Gun Range Where This Killer Took Target Practice Just Days Before The Massacre; New Shocking Details Emerging About The Husband And Wife Terrorists Behind The San Bernardino Attacks; The Fbi Revealing Tashfeen Malik And Syed Rizwan Farook Were Radicalized Before They Even Met Each Other Or Started Dating Online Two Years Ago
Aired December 10, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:22] DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Another -- well, should we call it outrageous statement from Donald Trump launches him further ahead in the
polls. And, tonight, we get some insight from voters who are willing to follow him, follow him even away from the Republican party if they
necessarily need to. Listen to why Trump thinks he stays on top.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am a person who happens to be very smart, and I happen to have a certain street sense. And, I know where
things are going.
DON LEMON, HOST OF "CNN TONIGHT" PROGRAM: Why not just sit on your big lead and just let it ride?
TRUMP: Because, Don, I have to do what is right. We need a dialogue in this country and throughout the world. We have a big problem. I want
safety for our citizens. They deserve it. They deserve it, and they are not getting it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I am leading in every poll by a lot. It looks like I am going to win. My whole life has been about winning. I am not like so many of the
other people that you talk to that are essentially losers, OK. I know how to win. I intend to win.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joining me our friend, Jane Velez-Mitchell, author and founder of Janeunchained.com; Loni Coombs, former prosecutor, author of "You`re
Perfect and Other Lies Parents Tell"; Mike Slater hosts of "The Mike Slater" show at KFMB radio; Christine Choe, Police Psychologist and Ernie
White, Civil Rights Activist.
Trump`s plan to ban -- well, he claims to put a stay on Muslims entering the United States but has been met with outrage throughout the world.
Here, though, how he clarified this plan to Don Lemon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Are you racist?
TRUMP: I am the least racist person that you have ever met. If it is not Muslims, if it is another group, I would look at them too. I am about
safety. I want safety for this country. I want safety for our citizens. All it is a break until our politicians, who are grossly incompetent, by
the way, can get their act together.
LEMON: Figure out what? What is there to figure out?
TRUMP: Why is there such hatred and such viciousness. Where does this hatred come from? Why does it come? We have to figure it out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And, Trump supporters seem unfazed by this plan for the Muslim immigrants. One more tape. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST OF "NEW DAY" PROGRAM: He did not say terror suspects, he said Muslims. What do you think of that?
JOHN HIKEL, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: I do not think that is unreasonable to do, because we need to make sure that the people here are safe.
WILLIAM BAER, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: It is not like due process or constitutional rights apply to people outside of the country coming into
the country.
JOSH YOUSSEF, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: Immigration is not a right. It is a privilege. And, you have to meet certain criteria in order to be able to
emigrate to the United States. And, it just seems that the majority of terror activities that have taken place over the past couple of decades and
more specifically since 9/11 have been perpetrated by people of the Islamic faith. And, so, I would say that when you see the propensity of terrorist
attacks being committed by Christians or Buddhists and we start blocking them as well.
GERRY DELEMUS, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: When Jews come to America or Christians come to America, they are not trying to reinvent America because
they meld in. We are a Judeo-Christian nation. Islam, if you read the Quran or the Hadith , they are in conflict with our constitution.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: All right, Jane. Safety, safety, safety, but are they sacrificing our values on behalf of that safety?
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, FOUNDER, JANEUNCHANGED.COM: Well, you know who is in conflict with the constitution? Donald Trump, because what he is
suggesting is totally unconstitutional. This man is frightening. He is a bigot. He is a xenophobe.
And, you know, he does not have all the support that everybody is saying he has. Two-thirds of Americans just polled said they are frightened or
concerned about the prospect of a Bush presidency. What he has --
PINSKY: A Trump presidency?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sorry. Maybe that was a Freudian slip. Maybe that was a Freudian slip. A Trump presidency. What he does have is the support of
approximately 35 percent of republicans. Republicans are only 25 percent of the electorate. You are talking about a relatively small group of
people.
PINSKY: Mike, what do you say?
MIKE SLATER, CONSERVATIVE TALK SHOW HOST: Jane, do you really think the U.S. constitution applies to Muslims in Pakistan?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It applies to people coming into the United States.
SLATER: Why? How? Based on what?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We are a nation of immigrants. OK? Give me your tired, your hungry, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free --
SLATER: You want to blow people up?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what? There is more than one mass shooting every day in this country. And, the majority of those mass shootings are not
Muslims. Take a look at Adam Lanza. OK? A privileged Connecticut boy living with his mom. He was not a Muslim. He killed 27 people, including
20 children.
SLATE: What I am hearing is we have enough of our own problems. We do not need to be importing more.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, our problem are guns.
PINSKY: Wait.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Guns are the bottom line here.
PINSKY: Hang on. We are not jumping into guns. But, Loni, let us get back to the constitution.
LONI COOMBS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Right. Right.
PINSKY: You are nodding your head at constitution, but we have done this before. We have restricted immigration in the past.
COOMBS: Right, we have.
PINSKY: And, sometimes ignominiously so. Sometimes we wish we had not, like Jews in the second World War.
[21:05:00] COOMBS: Absolutely. That is exactly right.
PINSKY: Those people went back to the camps because of us.
COOMBS: That is right. We got the Japanese camps --
PINSKY: Yes.
COOMBS: Internment camps here in America, which Donald Trump is citing as a wonderful example backing up his proposed ban here. Look, I find it so
ironic that Donald Trump is going, "Where is the hate coming from? Where is the hate coming from?" Look in the mirror, buddy. Everything you say
is hate speech.
And, he just picks one group after another to pick, to marginalize, to stigmatize. And, then, they are the ones that are going to be banned, that
are going to be kept out, that are going to be kicked out. And, it is extremely frightening. It has nothing to do with safety. That is not
going to make this country any more safer.
PINSKY: Well, he thinks as well.
COOMBS: He thinks, and that is the frightening thing is he thinks in his mind that if he bans big groups of people that will somehow make this
country better. There is no evidence of that.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: The shooter was born in Chicago.
PINSKY: And, Ernie -- That is right. And, Ernie, though, is not the problem that, you know, in the past we have had countries with governments
that were coming after us were the enemy. Now, we are talking about a people, a certain religious -- you know, a sacred sort of thing in this
country is religious freedom. Now, we are signaling out people of a certain religious faith and saying, "Well, those people cannot immigrate."
Is not that the hot button we are getting into here?
ERNIE WHITE, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: It may be the hot button, but there are a lot of Muslims that agree with Donald Trump, and I will tell you why.
This is about Sharia Law. And, Sharia Law in the Middle East is a lot different than Sharia Law here in America. Sharia Law is the law of Islam.
And, they cannot have another law, which means you cannot even have a constitution.
PINSKY: But, Ernie, but you are saying then the people that would flee that are the very people we should not let into the country.
WHITE: But, here is the problem. When you are talking about ISIS, when you talk about al-Qaeda, look what happened in San Bernardino? What do
they look like? We do not know. But, what we do know is when you import Sharia Law from the Middle East, pure Sharia Law, not the softened Sharia
Law you see here in America, pure Sharia Law, there is no in between. It is either Sharia or nothing else.
PINSKY: And, Christine, are we -- I get so -- I have a strange feeling through all this. I feel lost. I feel like I do not know what is good,
and what is bad, what is right and what is wrong, what is a reaction to something that we are overdoing or what is something that a reaction that
we need to have to the world situation we are in. How do people navigate through this?
CHRISTINE CHOE, POLICE PSYCHOLOGIST: I think people are stressed.
PINSKY: Yes.
CHOE: For a good reason.
PINSKY: But is it out of fear that somebody is going to put a vote down for Donald Trump, or is it out of reason?
CHOE: I think the overarching question is safety. I think when we see tragedies like the San Bernardino shootings, the overarching question is
can that happen to me? Can that happen to my family? Can that happen to us? And, that is a scary thought.
PINSKY: But, Mike -- I mean, Mike. Yes, Mike.
SLATER: Yes.
PINSKY: The question is, are we then reacting out of fear? And, is that how we should react or are we being irrational?
SLATER: Totally.
PINSKY: Do you understand the question I am asking you?
SLATER: Absolutely.
PINSKY: Yes.
SLATER: So, you mentioned the qualifier that Donald Trump put on until our country`s representative can get their act together. Did you know there
are 72 employees at the Department of Homeland Security, who are on the terror --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That is nard, yes.
SLATER: Jane. Jane, Jane, come on now.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That was actually disputed --
SLATER: The Department of Homeland Security could not even vet their own employees and you think we are going to properly vet refugees?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I am not saying the government is competent.
(LAUGHING)
SLATER: There you go!
VELEZ-MITCHELL: No. No. Wait a second. Instead of doing a mass sweep and stereotyping and condemning a large group of people in and an entire
religion, let us talk about why they did not catch this one woman.
And, what is wrong with our government. And, I will tell you what it is. Mass surveillance. Because they are so busy listening to all of our phone
calls that they did not catch the one person they should have caught.
PINSKY: All right.
WHITE: But, you just made a clear point. If they could not catch that one person, how are we going to catch 200,000?
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: All right. We are going to stop. We are going to stop. We got to stop, because we are going to get into details about this woman, about
the couple and some other plans that they had at least the husband had to kill. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:09:02] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: The subject`s last of, Farook, first of, Syed.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (voice-over): The FBI says the husband and wife team behind the San Bernardino attacks were radicalized before they
even met each other.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: To everybody up until now, it seemed that they really did not have red flags. And, now, it turns out there may have
been a big red flag.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: The FBI says Syed Rizwan Farook was in the social circle of a man convicted of recruiting four terrorists in 2012.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think his mother knew what was going on. She went into the apartment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (voice-over): Farook`s father telling an Italian newspaper that his son was fascinated by ISIS and hated Israel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (voice-over): U.S. Officials say Enrique Marquez, the neighbor, who bought the guns used in last week is deadly
terror attack has been giving up details.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That neighbor whose picture you just saw there, checked himself right after the shooting into a psychiatric facility. He told the FBI that
he and Farook, in addition to this, what Farook did do, he and Farook had planned a terrorist attack back in 2012 but got spooked, because there was
some other arrests locally in that part of the country, in Riverside there of some young people, who were planning to go to the Middle East to join
ISIS.
Right now, the FBI is searching a lake near the attack scene. There they are. They believe the killers could have tried to get rid of their
evidence there. Back with Jane, Loni, Mike, Christine, and Ernie. Here is what we know about this neighbor. OK. This neighbor, Enrique Marquez.
Put his picture up there again. It is pretty -- kind of wild. This guy, by the way, we have footage of a local television station, one of our
affiliates, KTLA here, of him, he rescued a dog from a snake bite.
And, they interview him, and he is this sort of -- there is no way you could -- this is the last guy you could think could be a radical extremist.
But, that is one of the disturbing qualities in this whole affair. He is 24. He converted to Islam in 2011.
[21:15:00] He married a relative of Farook`s, the sister of Farook`s brother`s wife -- Forget that. I would have to diagram it. But, she is a
Russian woman. He never lived with her. His own family did not even know that he was married to her. Clearly, an immigration ruse. There is
something for Donald Trump to look at, right?
I mean that would be something he could talk about without upsetting everybody. Our immigration system has holes in it. He had planned,
Enrique, a terror attack with Farook in 2012. And, he is the guy that purchased the two guns used in the attacks. And, then he checked into a
mental health facility right after the attack.
So, Jane, the question is, was that checking into the psychiatric hospital a way of getting away from answering questions? Do you believe this guy?
There are some inconsistencies of what he is saying. Is this guy -- who is this guy?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: He is a lost person with mental issues, who was clearly manipulated by these people. And, the question is why is this whack-a-
doodle able to purchase these kinds of guns.
PINSKY: Jane. Jane, he is known -- but this kid has known -- this Enrique guy -- look at that guy --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, look at him.
PINSKY: He has been with Farook since he was a kid. They grew up together.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Well, I mean there are a lot of lost souls in this world. And, you know, we could try to psycho analyze all of them. But, if
they did not have the access to semiautomatics, which the founding fathers did not envision nuts like this walking around with military style assault
weapons.
That is not why we had the second amendment. So, what we really need to do is crack down on guns if we want to stop violence in this country.
Australia had a mass shooting, and it is not exactly a liberal nation. They cracked down, and their homicide and mass shooting rates plummeted.
PINSKY: Ernie?
WHITE: Jane, they had a house full of pipe bombs. They were making bombs in this house. They did not care about just having guns. They were going
to blow things up. What does it take for you people to understand the caliphate?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You people?
(LAUGHING)
WHITE: The people who do not --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wait. Wait. Am I next on the list?
WHITE: When I say you, people --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: No. No. Are you going to exile me?
WHITE: I am talking about you, people, who do not understand Islam and do not understand the caliphate, do not understand the Quran and do not
understand Sharia Law.
PINSKY: Guns.
WHITE: You are trying to think that this is just about Christian and Islam. It is not. It is about Sharia. And, if you do not get it, you are
going to get other people killed with this type of nonsense.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me tell you something. One thing that Donald Trump said that made sense is we have to understand where this hatred is coming
from.
WHITE: It is coming from Sharia Law.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me tell you where it is also coming from.
WHITE: And, Sharia Law says this.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It is coming from ISIS.
WHITE: You either convert or you die.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And, do you know who runs ISIS --
WHITE: Convert or die is Sharia Law.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Former Military of Saddam Hussein`s army. That is who runs ISIS.
COOMBS: But, you know what?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And, that is a key point.
PINSKY: Loni.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And, I just want to finish that off.
PINSKY: Also, by the way some of the people released from Cuba from Guantanamo are now showing up.
COOMBS: Yes. Yes. Hatred comes from everywhere. We cannot pin it on one person. It comes from our own young people, who are feeling frustrated or
resentful, or without any identity and they are being, you know, seduced by this --
PINSKY: Is this kid going to get arrested do you think?
COOMBS: OK. This is -- let me tell you, when you say this guy does not appear to be dangerous, here is the thing. There are leaders and there are
followers. And, followers can be just as dangerous as leaders.
PINSKY: Clearly. Well, listen, Farook was probably a follower of his wife.
COOMBS: Right. Well, we do not know.
PINSKY: Probably.
COOMBS: They are still playing that out.
PINSKY: All right.
COOMBS: We will see. But, let me talk about this neighbor. You know, seems gullible. We do not know if he has mental issues. Right now, the
police are using him --
PINSKY: Well, hang on. We do know he has mental issue, because he met criteria for admission to a psychiatric hospital.
COOMBS: OK.
PINSKY: So, there is something going on.
COOMBS: He got admitted. OK. I will agree with that. But, look, he is being used by the police right now, because he is talking freely. He is
talking about everything. And, they are pulling out as much information as they can.
But, with all of these connections to Farook, you better believe that they will be looking for some way to charge him after they have squeezed every
little bit of information they can out of him. Not until then, though.
SLATER: Straw purchase. So, you can talk about any gun control measure you want. Nothing would have stopped this person from handing it over to
someone else like he did, which is already illegal.
The president`s common sense gun control measures to ban anyone, who is on the no fly list from getting a gun would not have stopped this guy, would
not have stopped the Chattanooga shooter, would not have stopped the Fort Hood shooter, would not have stopped any of the terrorist attacks.
PINSKY: Well, listen. I think we are all -- And by the way, gun sales are way up.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, yes.
PINSKY: Everyone is armed up.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We are addicted to gun violence.
PINSKY: Well, right now it is out of control. But, here is what one of Marquez`s friends told ABC News. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL STONE, MARQUEZ`S FRIEND: He said something on the lines of like, "There is a lot of Muslims in our own backyard just ready to just go
haywire and attack." And, we did not think nothing of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: If anybody says anything like that to you, think something of it. The FBI also says now that Farook may have had ties to a group of
terrorists in California who arrested back in 2012.
Christine, you worked with law enforcement. How do you think they are responding to all of this? Are they -- you know, trying to figure out how
to identify, who is at risk just as actively as we all are?
CHOE: I think, you know, at this point so much of it is speculation. And, the evidence what is today may not be what is true tomorrow. So, I mean, a
lot of it is just connecting the dots. In terms of the police officers, they are not superheroes.
[21:20:04] PINSKY: Right.
CHOE: They have emotions. They get traumatized just as much as we do. We try our best to screen out for the best possible police officers, who
can get out there and face, you know, the unknown and danger and all that important things. But at the end of the day --
PINSKY: They are humans.
CHOE: They are humans.
PINSKY: Yes.
CHIE: They are humans just like us.
PINSKY: And, they have been going through a weird phase where their relationship with their constituency, meaning us.
CHOE: Yes.
PINSKY: Has been strained because of all of the -- well, the things we have seen on hand-held cameras now, right?
CHOE: And, I do not think we -- we have not had a chance to really resolve one incident before we go on to another. We had 160 active shooting
incidents between 2000 and 2013.
PINSKY: You know what?
CHOE: And, how many were Muslims?
(LAUGHING)
CHOE: Well --
PINSKY: Listen, what is bothering us, Jane, about that is that there is a group saying they are coming and they are going to do more of this.
Everybody else seems to be sort of haphazard. This is a group saying we are systematically going to escalate this. It is going to get a lot worse.
That is what we are responding to.
The other thing is I know that Anderson Cooper is always saying, "Do not mention the names of the shooters. Do not mention the names of them."
Anderson, I cannot remember any of the last one, because as soon as we get the name of the one out, we got another one.
CHOE: Yes.
PINSKY: I cannot remember from one to the next.
CHOE: From 2007, we have had about 16 cases per year. That is more than once a month. And, so before we can resolve emotionally or process what is
going on, there is another one coming.
PINSKY: Well, ISIS is gaming on that, right? They sort of want to split us apart. They want us to respond in extreme ways. And, I am wondering if
our enthusiasm, and by our I mean the polls for Donald Trump is, A. The right response or feeding into their plan? It is very hard to know.
CHOE: But, I think it is a natural response, because when people are under stress, it is natural for people to have passion and urgency for decisions.
And, for somebody to come out with conviction and saying, "I am a leader. I am going to take care of this. We are going to make something happen,
not at a glacial speed, but we are going to do something about it," I can understand from people`s perspective why that is so appealing.
PINSKY: I completely agree. I got to go to break. We got next, the firearms instructor at the gun range where this killer took target practice
just days before the massacre. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[21:26:18] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (voice-over): Inside a Riverside shooting range, suspected terrorist Syed Farook practiced days before the
San Bernardino massacre. John Galletta is a firearms instructor at the Magnum Range and says everyone who walks through the doors must have an
I.D. and sign in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DARRYL COX, GUN OWNER: I am a very good shot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (voice-over): Darryl Cox bought his first gun after 9/11. Last week`s shooting just another reason he says to practice
his shot this week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COX: A little more incentive. A little more fearful of what is around.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: And, just days before the last massacre, Syed Farook went to a gun range and practiced with his own AR-15 assault rifle. Firearms instructors
there talked to our CBS affiliate in Los Angeles. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN GALLETTA, FIREARMS INSTRUCTOR AT THE MAGNUM RANGE: You cannot tell who comes to the range. He presented a valid or what appeared to be a
valid I.D., came in and acted the way he normally does, the way normal people act. Just come in and use the range.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Did Farook ever have private lessons here?
GALLETTA: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Do you offer private lessons?
GALLETTA: We do. Uh-huh.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: And he never had private -- his wife --.
GALLETTA: His wife has never been around here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: The instructor also had this to say. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GALLETTA: Tell you that over the last several days, the range has been full to capacity with people wanting to learn. People wanting to be able
to protect themselves.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Jane, Loni, Mike and Christine. And, joining us Jim Clemente. He is a retired FBI profiler. And, Jane, as we mentioned
earlier, everyone is arming up. I mean, say what you want, we have -- was not it a Florida sheriff telling everybody that good guys need to buy guns?
I am chuckling, because I am like, "Well, everyone thinks they are a good guy."
VELEZ-MITCHEL: Yes, exactly. Yes. Well, we are in an addictive cycle. I wrote a book called "Addict Nation" and study this. It is really an
addictive cycle of violence. And, so, what happens now is that you have more guns than there are people in the United States. There is about 320
million people. There are far more guns.
And, every time there is a mass shooting, people go out and get more guns, which increases the probability of somebody using it and increases -- So,
you could see how we are in a vicious cycle. We got to just shut it down and go cold Tofurky on guns.
PINSKY: Jim, there is no way to do that, right? We are loaded up. The horse is out of the barn. We need to figure out what to do with the way
they are.
JIM CLEMENTE, FBI PROFILER (RET.): I think what it is it is not just the guns. The guns cannot kill people unless somebody pulls the trigger. What
we have to do is lower the violence ratio in this country and hatred fuels violence. I mean we do not want to do that.
PINSKY: How do we do that?
CLEMENTE: Well, one thing -- I am sorry to say this, but when you say how many of those mass shootings have been Muslims, it is handfuls, not
hundreds. And, s,o we cannot point at a particular type of person. What we need to do is look at individual peoples` behavior.
Do not look at big groups and say they are going to act a certain way. You cannot predict human behavior that way. You have to see what the pattern
of behavior is for the individual. That is going to tell you if they are violent.
CHOE: And, I think it is much more easy for the public to digest a certain category of people in terms of what they look like, what they sound like
versus the behavior, because in terms of behavior, it can be very scary. It can be your neighbors. It can be your friends. And, it is just so much
more evasive when it comes to that.
PINSKY: Well -- now, hold on a second. I have worked in a psychiatric hospital for 20 years. I feel like I can tell when somebody has a risk for
violence, real violence, like agitated violence. So, I sort of know what to tell people to look for, but that is not the group we are really worried
about today, is it? How do you profile? How do you know what to look for?
CLEMENTE: Here is a thing --
PINSKY: Just anything different? Who was it saying that -- I heard it was a Trump or somebody who was saying that the families should have seen any
change in Farook`s behavior and any isolation, any change in their belief system, any change in the friends they hang out with. We got to pay closer
attention. Is that what you are talking about?
[21:30:08] CLEMENTE: One of the things is every person that has done this has something in common. They are all human beings. You have to learn to
build a bridge --
PINSKY: Wait. You make me frustrated. That means all humans are at risk?
CLEMENTE: No. You have to learn to build a bridge of rapport with people who are troubled to try to find out what they are troubled about.
Actually, get in there. If you look at the conversations that this shooter had, he did leak out information about what he was thinking about. And, if
we pay attention to that and if you actually give him services, you may be able to mitigate that and not let him go over the edge of radicalization.
SLATER: OK. Let us not get too distracted by gun violence, because plan A. for this guy was to blow up the room full of people. So, these are two
different conversations. Let us focus on one.
PINSKY: Well, he is talking -- but Jim is talking about diminishing violence. I will sign on to that, right? Because that will diminish the
probability of somebody using a pipe bomb.
SLATER: Sure, with anything naturally. Can I tell a quick story about gun ranges? Because I think this is important. So, a good friend of mine owns
one of the largest gun ranges in the country.
He told me three weeks ago, three Saudi nationals came into his range, and they had a student visa. You have to let them shoot at the range, because
it is against the law not to.
PINSKY: It is against the law not to let them shoot if they have a valid I.D., period?
SLATER: It is against the law to not let someone shoot because of their religion.
PINSKY: Oh, OK.
SLATER: Because they were Muslim. When they left they called the Department of Homeland Security, they were arrest and deported because it
is against the law if you are a foreign national, which they were on student visas to possess a firearm in anyway even if you are renting it at
a gun range.
PINSKY: Why would they be foolish enough to go to a gun range then -- they do not know that?
SLATER: Not only foolish enough to do that, but foolish enough to videotape them shooting and also videotape the store itself. That is what tipped off
my friend to call the Department of Homeland Security in the first place.
This was three weeks ago in San Diego. And, I am reminding everyone in San Diego, 9/11, two of the 9/11 hijackers were on student visas living there.
This was three weeks ago. This is happening right now.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look --
COOMBS: You see, I think that is appropriate action to take. It was not just "Oh, they are Muslim, let us call the police." It was, "Look what
they are doing. They are videotaping. They are searching things out." You know, that gives you more than just -- you cannot give it a broad
title.
Although, it is simple, and people like simple answers. OK, let us just ban all the Muslims. You cannot do that. You have to look at the
behaviors. And, you have to look at the objective actions.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: I mean, look, I think that is perfectly appropriate. Just like when we had people prior to 9/11, who were Middle Eastern,
learning how to take off but not learning how to land. And, the U.S. Government did not pick up on that. That was the Bush Administration.
And, we had the horror of 9/11 after that.
So, I think the government needs to be much more efficient at finding these terrorists. That does not mean banning entire groups based on their
religion. But, I think what the problem is, and Ed Snowden has pointed this out is that they spend so much time listening to all of us.
I am sure they listen to me, because I am an animal activist. Instead of worrying about people who care about animals or care about the environment,
why do not they go after and focus on the terrorists? Because what the U.S. government has is too much information now.
(CROSSTALK)
SLATER: Until they figure it out.
PINSKY: I think Jim thinks that Jane ought to be monitored carefully.
(LAUGHING)
CLEMENTE: Yes, I am just telling you --
PINSKY: What do you think, Jim?
CLEMENTE: I am just telling you, as wonderful as you are, the FBI is not listening to you and covering everything you do. What they are doing is
they are -- they collect data. They cannot listen to it. They cannot look at it unless they meet certain requirements. If you do something
terroristic, then they are going to review the stuff.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: Basically, Bernie Sanders said that they are taking information on all of us.
PINSKY: They are taking.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: And, they should not be taking information on all of us. They should focus on the specific group that has a problem.
PINSKY: Jane. I -- I --
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: They would have caught this woman coming in if they had focused on specific group.
PINSKY: I do not know that, that is true what you are saying. I am not a security expert. This is one of the things that drives me crazy about this
entire situation. It needs experts telling us what to do, really. And, so as far as I am concerned, if experts in security need to listen to every
word I say and every word my children say, have at it.
COOMBS: Yes.
PINSKY: If that is what we need to be safe. So, for Bernie Sanders to say that is not what is necessary, I do not know. This is the confusing thing
about this situation.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: Easy for you to say until somebody like Donald Trump becomes president and decides that you should not be allowed to do whatever
it is you do because he does not like it.
PINSKY: Listen, I am more scared about somebody from somewhere else coming along and taking -- I do not know what to think anymore. Jim, help me.
CLEMENTE: Well, the thing is if you have the data collected, then you can go back and look for it. If you do not collect the data in the first
place, we could never do the investigation that is going on right now with hundreds of FBI agents and other federal and local agents right now.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: There are a lot of good that does it after the fact.
SLATER: So, do not let them in the first place.
COOMBS: No! But, Dr. Drew --
SLATER: So, do not let them in the first place.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: He was born in Chicago. The guy -- the man was born in Chicago.
(CROSSTALK)
SLATER: Not his wife or the Southern`s neighbor`s wife.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: No. But, he was one of the two killers and he was born in Chicago.
COOMBS: But, look, one of the clearest ways to catch terrorists is look at what they are talking about. If they are talking about it, you do not have
to guess or interpret or anything. That is why the communication is key. And, everybody is doing it on the computer now.
PINSKY: And, we did not talk about the fact that neighbors were concerned about these people, but were so fearful of being labeled a racist or
labeled alarmist or being sued as the clock bomb boy -- they are being sued for $15 --
[21:35:05] SLATER: $15 million bucks.
PINSKY: $15 million. You read that and you think, "Well, the neighbors sit in the garage all night."
SLATER: Because Jane is going to go on Twitter and call this guy an Islamaphobe and a bigot and a hater and all the rest.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: I do not describe what I am going to do. You have no idea. I am going to go out to dinner tonight. I am not going on Twitter.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: All right. When exactly -- But she is not going to eat meat.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
SLATER: Definitely not.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: That is right.
PINSKY: I know that for sure. I can predict some of what Jane is going to do. So, next, when did these killers actually become radicalized? How do
they become radicalized? And, could they have been stopped? Did we miss something that we could have intervened upon? And, so, we will learn about
that so we do not make that mistake again, which no doubt we will. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (voice-over): New shocking details emerging about the husband and wife terrorists behind the San Bernardino attacks.
The FBI revealing Tashfeen Malik and Syed Rizwan Farook were radicalized before they even met each other or started dating online two years ago.
[21:40:04] Malik is seen here arriving to the U.S. on a fiance visa in the summer of 2014. The Pakistani native was never asked about her jihadist
or radical views. Since Farook is an American born citizen, officials are now wondering if their marriage is a sham, arranged to carry out a long
planned terror attack.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So, radicalized. We want to break down that term. You hear it tossed around a lot. What exactly does it mean to become radicalized?
What is that process like? Back with Jane, Loni, Mike, Christine, and Jim. Listen here to what a former intelligence committee member said about how
ISIS indoctrinates children.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: If you believe in Isis and you believe in the caliphate, they start early. They will recruit people in these training
camps or take these kids into training camps as young as 3 years old. They call them cubs of the caliphate. There is one particular camp that issued
swords and dolls.
And, their whole purpose was to train these children how to chop the head off of this doll. And, they would call them, these are the infidels, this
is how you do it. Once that person goes through that process, maybe even participates in an execution or certainly witnesses it, really difficult to
get those kids back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Yes. I mean that is how warrior societies did it in ancient societies. But, my concern is Americans that are radicalized or people
that perhaps are from other countries that are radicalized, exactly who do they get and how do they draw them in?
I have been saying for quite some time that the ISIS has taken a page out of every other cult organization. They do precisely what other cults do,
but they have superpower granted to them by religion. Jim, tell me how they do this?
CLEMENTE: Absolutely. So, they take a vulnerable person, which basically somebody searching for meaning in life, which is basically every young
person in the world, as they go through teenaged years into their early 20s. That is where everybody is.
PINSKY: Particularly males? Males in the early 20s?
CLEMENTE: Well, it is not just males, I mean as we see.
PINSKY: But, particularly males.
CLEMENTE: Yes. Males want to stand on their own two "people" feet. They want to be a man. That is their charge in life. But, then if you look at,
they take those people and they say I see something special in you.
And, then they take a religious doctrine that they can twist for their own purposes. Then they say you can be part of something bigger than
yourselves. You can change the world. And, in fact, you must change the world. True believers, the true faith means you have to convert everybody.
And, that is the problem.
PINSKY: It takes time. It is a slow process of indoctrination until they get to the point, where they really believe in these principles to the
point of where killing someone else on behalf of those principles seems insignificant. That is how brainwashed they become. Mike.
SLATER: Yes. Really interesting. So, I think you are 100 percent right. But, you also got to look at not only what they are doing, but what we in
western civilization are not doing. Why are we not ingraining our kids with a sense of purpose and meaning, so that we are not leaving them with a
vacuum that ISIS can ever infiltrate. I think that is our failure more than their victory.
COOMBS: Well, and that is one of the dangerous things about Donald Trump`s rhetoric is he is sitting there and trying to castigate all Muslims that
plays into the rhetoric of ISIS. You know, there is "Oh, well, they are attacking us unfairly." So, all those people are saying, "Oh, yeah, here
is all the mean Americans coming after these nice people." It plays into that for the children.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look.
PINSKY: Jim.
CLEMENTE: What they do in their indoctrination camps is they can point -- Islam has no borders. They can point to every bad thing that happens to any Muslim anywhere in the world and say they are doing it to you
deliberately, you and your brother and sister. So, it really beast them up to want to do something to change.
COOMBS: And a sense of belonging.
CHOE: And, there is a sensitization of violence that happens very early. These children and these young adults, you know, they do not snap
overnight. This is a long, insidious process of culturating.
PINSKY: Jane.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look, I find radical Islam horribly offensive and --
PINSKY: Yes. It is a death cult.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: Deep evil.
PINSKY: It is a death cult within our religion.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: Evil. But, let us talk a little bit about basic human psychology, and that is resentment. And, we know that when things
happen to people, they have a tendency to want to get even. That is just human nature.
PINSKY: OK.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, the people who run ISIS are, and I have read several articles about this former Saddam Hussein military brass and
intelligence. So, we invaded Iraq. We toppled Saddam Hussein. 400,000 people who used to be part of Saddam Hussein`s army were, basically, told
they could not work in the government. They were denied their pensions.
At that moment, they started planning their revenge. This is the ghost of our absolutely misguided war in Iraq come back to haunt us. Once we
understand that and our part in it, then we can approach it from a rational standpoint.
PINSKY: Jane, respectfully, I will disagree, because even if you accept that as factual, so what? It does not change that we have to deal with the
circumstances that face us today. Those facts leading to today do not change what we are dealing with today.
So, what am I going to do? Am I going to tell Farook, "Oh, by the way, the problem in Iraq, the guys who are indoctrinated, we actually do not even
know who those guys are. But the guys that are leading the guys who are indoctrinating you are people we created. OK? Now are you not going to
shoot up San Bernardino?"
[21:45:09] JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: No. But, I think that we have to -- It is a 12-step principle. Clean up our side of the street. Once we
understand that we had a role in this, then we are less pure victims, we are more participants and we can deal with it rationally. You know, there
are estimates that are up to 500,000 people died in Iraq as a result of the Iraq war.
500,000 people. Those are also human beings. I am not justifying anything that has happened. I think the murders, violence -- that is why I am a
person who is completely committed to nonviolence whatsoever on any sentient being. But, we have to understand that we do have a role in the
chaos that is happening now.
SLATER: So, real quick, the argument that because Donald Trump says something that could be perceived as hateful that people are going to run
to ISIS is interesting to me. Because the fact that you are saying --
PINSKY: Well, but that is what --
COOMBS: No, no, not run to ISIS, but it makes the point for them.
PINSKY: But, Mike, let me put it this way. The ISIS, one of their principles is to try to radicalize us.
SLATER: Uh-huh.
PINSKY: So, we say extreme things, or at least have leaders that say extreme things against, for instance, Muslims. So, there might be Muslims
within the Muslim community then -- I mean that is what they are saying.
SLATER: Sure. Sure.
COOMBS: Obviously.
SLATER: Tell me something about the Muslim community that there is someone who is this close to crucifying human beings and burying people alive and
beheading people. That is a big --
COOMBS: No. No. No.
PINSKY: It is different --
SLATER: Is not it a big leap to join that group as opposed to join -- wow, maybe I should be on the side of freedom.
COOMBS: No. No. It is not from that one statement. There is all of the other time.
SLATER: Even then though.
COOMBS: No, no.
SLATER: Even then. Why would you --
COOMBS: And, for you to say that a Muslim -- any Muslim is going to take the ban on Muslims personally. As them that are being talked about by
Donald Trump.
SLATER: No. I want to speak within their group and say, "You know what? We should stop with this whole terrorism thing and clean up our act so that
as country we would not have to fathom banning us."
COOMBS: But not by doing -- just by banning. There is other ways.
SLATER: Maybe that is not his way -- Sure.
COOMBS: There you go.
SLATER: Maybe that is not the best proposal.
COOMBS: OK.
SLATER: But, to say that that is going to cause people to run to ISIS in any way is a strange thing.
PINSKY: Well, but it is interesting to me. I heard an intelligence and security analyst today saying that, that is one of their principles, that
they wanted to radicalize us so the Muslim community became radicalized. People committed on one side. They sort of polarize.
SLATER: They should choose our side.
PINSKY: Well, I think the idea of us being a little more moderate and reasoned in our response, I just do not know what --
SLATER: Has it worked so far?
PINSKY: No, it has not. I do not know what the response is.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: You want to destroy ISIS? Stop putting them on T.V. Stop putting them in their scary black outfits. They are something out of
a bad Hollywood horror movie, and we keep giving them more attention. Do not put them on T.V.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: We will be right back after this. A little more to come.
SLATER: I agree with you.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[21:51:49] DAVID BOWDICH, FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR IN CHARGE OF THE L.A. FIELD OFFICE: We will leave no stone unturned. So, the reason we are here
searching this lake today is because we did have a lead that indicated that the subjects came into this area. We have now put a dive team into the
lake as a logical part of covering that lead.
The San Bernardino area has been, as you can all tell, it has been invaded by many, many federal agents, primarily FBI, some ATF as well. So, if you
see FBI agents out on the street, do not worry about it. It is part of the investigation. And, that will continue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That of course was the FBI Assistant Director talking about the ongoing investigation. I am back with Jane, Loni, Mike, Christine, and
Jim. And, Jim, you said you were working with these, the prisoners in Guantanamo.
CLEMENTE: Yes, I went down to evaluate their interrogation techniques. I found out they were water boarding these guys. And, I said, "What? That
is -- Not only is that illegal, but it does not get effective results."
I actually took the worst guy they had down there, and after 11 days had him fully cooperating. Why? Because I built a human bridge. I treated
him with dignity and respect, gave him some power, made him feel special, and he actually then helped our side.
PINSKY: And, did he feel good about having done so or was he the guy now that is out that is climbing back into the organization?
CLEMENTE: No. He joined our side. He is on our team.
PINSKY: So, is that a model for how we go forward here?
CLEMENTE: I hope so.
SLATER: Wow.
CLEMENTE: I think that we have to teach the people who are vulnerable to indoctrination or radicalization, we have to teach them that we are not the
monsters, that we will -- we love people. We want to help people. And, I think that bond of human kindness is what is going to win this, not any
gun, not any bomb, not any war.
PINSKY: That sounds like Jane Velez-Mitchell.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, it does not. I believe in cracking down on actual terrorists and stopping people who are terroristic from coming into
this country. I just do not believe in a broad brush. And, basically, accusing everybody who happens to be a member of a particular religion of
being dangerous.
SLATER: Jane, 86 --
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: And, that is slamming an entire segment of the world.
SLATER: Jane, 86 percent of Muslims in Egypt believe that if you leave the Muslim faith, you should be killed.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: Have you been in Egypt?
SLATER: Listen. They believe that if a woman is raped, the woman should be stoned for adultery.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: Have you been in Egypt?
SLATER: That is a pretty broad brush. 86 percent.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: Have you ever been to Egypt? --
PINSKY: No. The answer is no.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I have been to Egypt and I have spent time with Egyptian people. And, they are wonderful people.
SLATER: Of course they are.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: They are human being. They are human beings.
PINSKY: Hang on.
SLATER: That is not true, Jane.
PINSKY: Loni.
COOMBS: We have to start playing the long game. ISIS is playing the long game. There is one way that you can motive almost anyone. And, that is to
fill the basic human need of feeling special, feeling wanted and belonging. Either we can do that for our children or ISIS will do that to our
children.
PINSKY: Right.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: Exactly.
PINSKY: So, we need to take care of our own, our own kids. We need to watch carefully our own communities, our neighborhoods, our own families
for sure. We cannot cure Egypt. We cannot make -- we have enough just with our own backyards. We take care of our own and focus on that. But,
again, remember, always, if you see something, say something. There are lines you can call, 877-THREAT is one of those lines you can call. Back
after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: All right, now, we are taking a turn here. I am completely changing gears. I promised the ladies of "The Real" who I join on Monday,
I promised them I would promote their show and give you a sneak peek of, well, what they put me through and what you will see next week. I have not
seen this yet. So, check it out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ADRIENNE BAILON, T.V. HOST OF "THE REAL" TALK SHOW: Is not it true that kegel exercises are also important for men to do?
PINSKY: Men should and can benefit from them, for sure.
BAILON: Ooh. This is my ministry. I have been trying to spread the gospel. No one is listening. They think that I am crazy. They are like,
"that is not true. I have never heard of such a thing."
PINSKY: First of all, I just think I need to attend Adrienne`s church of Kegel.
(LAUGHING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:00:00] PINSKY: Secondly, I need to be like the unknown comic and walk around with a bag on my head. From ISIS to kegel. What is going on here,
everybody. All right, thank you for watching. DVR us then you can watch us any time. Thank you, panelists. We appreciate it. Thank you all for
watching and we will see you all next time.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
END
