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Online Polls Pick Trump as GOP Debate Winner; Trump Supporters Willing to Abandon Republican Party to Support Him; Latest on Sexting Messages of Dad in Chld`s Hot Car Death; Jimmy Carter Announcing He is Cancer Free. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired December 16, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:12] DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: All right. Now, the pundits may tell you that was, it Rubio or Cruz that won the debate, but in most of the
online polls people picked Donald Trump. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEB BUSH, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He is a chaos candidate, and he would be a chaos President.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RAND PAUL, (R-KY) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Is Donald Trump a serious candidate?
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL: Whoever you are that think you are going to support Donald Trump, think. Do you believe in the constitution? Are you going to change the
constitution?
(AUDIENCE CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: This is a tough business.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I know, you are a tough guy, Jeb. I know.
BUSH: And, we need to have a leader that is --
TRUMP: You are tough.
BUSH: You are never going to be President of the United States by insulting your way to the front seat --
TRUMP: Well, let us see. I am at 42 and you are at 3.
BUSH: It does not matter.
TRUMP: So, so, far, I am doing better.
BUSH: It does not matter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Who would be -- I just cannot imagine somebody booing. These are people that want to kills us, folks. And, you are objecting to us
infiltrating their conversations? I do not think so.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And, Trump has tweeted, quote, "So many people are giving me credit for winning the debate last night. All polls agree. I am huge."
Let us see if the panel agrees. Rolonda Watts, host of the podcast, "Rolonda on Demand." Lisa Bloom, Civil Rights Lawyer at Bloom Firm, and
Legal Analyst for Avvo.com. John Cardillo, WJNO Radio Host, former NYPD Officer. Alex Swoyer, Political Reporter with Breitbart News and Seth
Myers, Clinical Psychologist.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
The pundits seemed to be seeing something -- well, or not seeing something that the average republican does see. You know what I am saying, Rolonda?
It is like the pundits think they are being very reasoned. They are very appropriate and very thoughtful about the debates and their reporters just
send them packing with a whole other opinion. No?
ROLONDA WATTS, HOST OF "ROLONDA ON DEMAND" PODCAST: Well, it was fun and it was interesting. Let us put it that way. And, once again, it was about
Trump again. Even Jeb Bush, I thought, added a little oxygen to the whole party situation.
PINSKY: Now, you knew Donald Trump back in the day he was getting started.
WATTS: Yes. This is the way he is. And, I think --
PINSKY: That is what you keep telling us. What does it mean?
WATTS: Listen. Back in the day in the early `80s when nobody knew who Trump was, he would stage something in New York City, where I was a New
York City News reporter. He would stage a big something on a Sunday just so we would cover him. And, that is how he built his name in New York City
--
PINSKY: Where you there, John?
JOHN CARDILLO, WJNO RADIO HOST AND FORMER NYPD OFFICER: Oh, yes.
WATTS: -- by really being able to manipulate the press and he is doing it right now.
CARDILLO: He is spot on.
WATTS: You were in New York. You remember.
CARDILLO: Oh, he is spot on. He is spot on. He knows -- He is a showman. He knows how to put on a show and it is brilliant at what he is doing. He
is not using traditional political tactic, right? He is using business focus group tactics. Put out the most outrageous tweet you can, put out a
mild tweet and then see where people fall on this. His strategy is so brilliant and shaking up the establishment and you nailed it. He got the
showdown act.
LISA BLOOM, CIVIL RIGHTS LAWYER AND LEGAL ANALYST: But, let us talk about what he is actually advocating. Shutting down a portion of the internet.
I do not even know how that works. I do not think most of us would favor that. Killing family members of terrorists.
In other words, killing innocent people who just happen to be related by blood to somebody who did something bad. I mean is there anything more un-
American than that concept?
PINSKY: Does anybody believe he would do that?
CARDILLO: No.
PINSKY: OK.
WATTS: Well, I think he likes to push buttons.
PINSKY: He likes push buttons.
WATTS : Well, that is what we are worried about that he may push the wrong button.
BLOOM: Listen. We have to take ability with drones all over the world to kill innocent people and we do kill people --
PINSKY: We do, that is right.
BLOOM: -- all over the world.
PINSKY: All right. Let us hear from some of the Trump supporters in New Hampshire who seem to support him seemingly in spite of the Republican
Party and certainly in spite of the pundits. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAM BAER, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: The reason that many of us are supporting Donald Trump is because we are tired of seeing the, at best,
impotence of the Republican Party in this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TONI ANN DIBARTOLO, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: They cannot put Trump in a box. And, that is what we love about him. All the Trump supporters, we
love that he is unvarnished.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSH YOUSSET, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: Donald Trump represents the American party. The problem with the Republican Party is they have betrayed
American value.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUSAN DELEMUS, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: Here is Trump, you know, wielding a sword, that this huge flippant machine of a dragon coming after him. Who
do you think the people are going to get behind?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAER: If these republicans think that we are going to fall back in line, like we have done for decades, they are wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Well, see, I am so glad we have Alex Swoyer here, because she has been going around with these campaigns. And, what is that? What are we
seeing? What are people responding to, in your opinion?
ALEX SWOYER, POLITICAL REPORTER WITH BREITBART NEWS: I think number one that you hear from people when you ask, you know, why do you support Donald
Trump is that fact that he is funding his own campaign. A lot of people, no matter --
PINSKY: So, no special interests?
SWOYER: Exactly.
PINSKY: He is making very little of that. I do not hear him talking about that.
SWOYER: Right. And, you also -- you know, I live in D.C., so I am hearing that K Street where the lobbyists are, are very upset because they are not
making any money off of Donald Trump.
So, he is coming in and he is shaking up Washington as we know it, political parties as we know it, literally. I guess, last night, he said
he will not make a third party run so we will see.
PINSKY: If they treat him right, meaning if he wins.
SWOYER: Right. Right.
PINSKY: Which I thought was fascinating.
SWOYER: So, that is the number one thing, I guess.
PINSKY: But, what are we responding to? That is the most -- to me it is us that I find so fascinating.
SWOYER: No. I think the bit of gamble is just today. We are finding out what the republicans were able to get in congress in terms of the budget
deal. And, I think you and I talked before about a lot of republicans were not wanting to fund Planned Parenthood or the Syrian Refugee Resettlement.
[21:05:05] They did not get either of those. So, you are seeing the republican base, the electorate, really upset with the republican leaders
in congress, and so they are looking for an alternative.
PINSKY: It is just a throw them out message.
SWOYER: I believe so. I think that the idea that they are frustrated is what Donald Trump has tapped into.
PINSKY: Seth, you are a psychologist, what do you think? -- Again, this is the interesting part to me. Donald Trump is just who he is, same guy you
knew back in the `80s, but we as Americans are responding to some human in unique way it seems to me. What does it say about us?
SETH MYERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I do not think that it is as much people like Donald Trump as people are intrigued by him.
PINSKY: Are we afraid? Is that what it is?
MYERS: I think we are intrigued. I think that most people have vulnerabilities and insecurities. And, I think when you look at him, he
shows no vulnerability whatsoever. So, I think that people tell themselves if he looks that strong he really must be that strong and he can solve
problems, the kind of problems that we have in America.
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
PINSKY: But see, for me -- but for me, I would have to be afraid to really need that kind of allegiance.
WATTS: But, he is the kind of guy you want to walk into a room to defend you. I mean that is the kind -- You want Trump on your side.
BLOOM: No. Absolutely not.
PINSKY: No. I want Lisa Bloom defending me.
(LAUGHING)
BLOOM: No, because he is going to say things that set people off all over the world. The words that --
CARDILLO: But, the base loves it. They love it.
BLOOM: Wait a second. The words that come out of the President`s mouth actually do matter. They have massive ramifications. I think Seth is
right. I think that we are a country gripped in fear. In my opinion, irrational fear, fear of terrorism, which is not even on the top 50 causes
of death for America but we are all gripped in fear. And, every time there is a terrorist event, each of which is terrible, Paris, San Bernardino, his
numbers shoot up because we are so afraid.
PINSKY: Yes, but, Lisa, to be fair, before the San Bernardino event, before Paris, people were getting behind him because of the economy.
BLOOM: But, then he is talking about immigration.
PINSKY: And, because of immigration.
BLOOM: And all these terrible things he said about Mexicans.
CARDILLO: But, let me add -- let me add something here. I analyzed this from my radio show. OK. Here is the deal. Alex pretty much nailed it, so
did Seth. There is a populous anger bubbling up --
PINSKY: Yes.
CARDILLO: -- with the electorates.
BLOOM: That is true.
CARDILLO: They are sick of Barack Obama`s, you know, vacillating on foreign policy, they see it factless, weak are words, but not just
republican candidates use but former Obama supporters are using.
BLOOM: Yes. This is the guy who killed Osama Bin Laden.
CARDILLO: But, he did not count the S.E.A.L.s killed him.
BLOOM: OK. It was on his watch.
PINSKY: Let me interrupt
CARDILLO: Oh, come on.
BLOOM: It was not George Bush`s watch.
CARDILLO: Listen. Was he the one in the room with the gun?
BLOOM: George Bush had eight years to do it.
CARDILLO: Was he the one in the room with the gun?
BLOOM: He did not do it.
CARDILLO: Stop. The S.E.A.L.s killed him. Let us give them the credits.
PINSKY: Right here with the audience real quick. Go ahead, sir. Yes, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Well, my question is, do you think that his antics and the way he portrays himself on T.V. is not professional and
kind of immature?
BLOOM: Yes.
PINSKY: I think people have said that.
BLOOM: Of course.
PINSKY: Yes, I heard it from the other candidates the other night that he was -- the chaos candidates.
WATTS: Yes, chaos candidate.
BLOOM: Yes.
WATTS: Baby, brat, bully. Those are the words.
PINSKY: But, let me -- I want to show you what the press, the liberal -- what am I going to call them? The liberal -- the establishment in the
press, and they are sort of elite, elitist group, how they are painting the supporters of Trump. Take a look at this from "Meet the Press." Take a
look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHUCK TODD, NBC HOST OF "MEET THE PRESS" PROGRAM: 64 percent of his supporters did not attend college, sort of the polar opposite of the
establishment lane. Then you got this fact, 61 percent of his supporters do not attend church weekly. Again, opposite of the evangelical way.
There is one more distinguishing characteristic worth pointing out. This is sort of a blue collar vote. Again, that has not been a force in
Republican primaries before. 54 percent of Trump supporters earn less than 75,000 dollars a year.
(END VIDEO CLIP) PINSKY: What do you think Chuck Todd`s point is there? They do not go to church, they did not attend college, they are not making much money? What
do you think his point? Alex, what is his point?
SWOYER: I think that, that could be an advertisement, honestly, for Donald Trump.
PINSKY: I understand -- I understand that, but what is he -- what is the liberal elite, the -- what we call, white male -- the privileged white
male, what point is he making there?
SWOYER: Well, two things, they are trying to establish that the people that are supporting Donald Trump are not smart.
PINSKY: OK. They are dumb white guys, right?
SWOYER: Right.
PINSKY: Who does not make much money. That is the case. All right. So, what I want to do is I will take a break and I want to break that down. I
do not want ask my panelists what they think the stats are on the average American, who goes to church, who goes to college, how much money we make
and then let us compare that against the Trump data that Chuck Todd was building a case of the dumb white guy.
And we will see if, in fact, you know, how we as Americans measure up relative to the Trump supporters. Also, I have the father accused of
leaving his baby to bake to death in a hot car. We have the latest on his alleged sexting messages while the baby died. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:09:33] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN HIKEL, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: Unprecedented, where had they have had a candidate that has been no. 1 from the beginning, that the establishment,
that the leaders of the party do not want to actually represent the party.
PAULA JOHNSON, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: The republicans -- the GOP cannot control him, and that is what they do not like about him. They can control
Bush. They can control Rubio. They can control all of them. For them to come out and to go, to backstab him like this, you know what? I am done
with the Republican Party.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DELEMUS: I do not believe any one of them, not one. I believe Donald.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: There you go. Those Trump voters were willing to abandon.
BLOOM: Wow!
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: She did not look like a dumb white guy, by the way as Chuck is saying. They are willing to abandon the Republican Party in order to
support Donald Trump. In fact, it seems like that is their intent to give, you know, give it to the establishment.
Back with Rolonda, Lisa, John, Alex and Seth. Now, here is what I want to do. I will revisit that clip I showed you from NBC`s "Meet the Press" and
you will see Chuck Todd building a case about who Trump supporters are.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TODD: 64 percent of his supporters did not attend college, sort of the polar opposite of the establishment lane. Then you got this fact, 61
percent of his supporters do not attend church weekly. Again, opposite of the evangelical way.
There is one more distinguishing characteristic worth pointing out. This is sort of a blue collar vote. Again, that has not been a force in
Republican primaries before. 54 percent of Trump supporters earn less than 75,000 dollars a year.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:15:01] PINSKY: All right. So, I am asking the panel, what percentage of Americans do not go to church much?
WATTS: That sounds like the average American to me.
BLOOM: Probably most.
WATTS: Yes, it does.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
BLOOM: I do not know if it includes synagogues, mosques, temples.
PINSKY: OK, most.
BLOOM: Yes, probably most.
PINSKY: And, then how about who did not -- Over all population, not young people but all across the age groups, what percentage did not attend
college?
WATTS: Probably about 10 percent ---
BLOOM: Half?
CARDILLO: I think that is representative of the American electorate.
WATTS: I think that is representative --
PINSKY: Alex, is that what you were saying?
SWOYER: I believe so. And, I think that one of the interesting issues there was the blue collar vote. And, that is what you are seeing, existing
a lot of middle America in the south.
PINSKY: I got to say something. I find the press` attitude about his supporters disturbing and maybe even on the bordering on despicable. Guess
what percentage of Americans -- go ahead and throw the data up there.
Guess what percentage of Americans, actually, make under $75,000 -- 85 percent of us. That is all of us essentially. We all -- that is us. That
is us. That is where he got it wrong. For the blue collar, that is America at-large. For some reason Americans are responding to this
gentlemans.
BLOOM: But, I think that what Chuck Todd was saying, though is that this is different than your typical republican base voter, which is heavy
evangelical, which does have a higher income.
PINSKY: I agree with you and I am being a little polemical by calling it just them being somewhat disparaging of Americans generally but is not that
the attitude the press takes about the Trump supporters?
CARDILLO: They are condescending.
PINSKY: They are condescending.
BLOOM: I know. But, here is --
CARDILLO: They are condescending.
PINSKY: My fear is they are being some kind of condescending of Americans at large --
BLOOM: OK --
CARDILLO: Yes .
PINSKY: -- and they think America is something totally -- because they make $150,000 a year, they assume, "Whoa, everybody makes $150,000 a year."
BLOOM: Listen. I have been disparaging of Trump voters, not because I had any idea how much money they made but because they are supporting a guy who
makes fun of disabled people by doing this on the air, making fun of --
CARDILLO: But, does not it tell you something --
BLOOM: -- by slamming women, by slamming people of color over and over again.
CARDILLO: But, Lisa, hold on. Does not it tell you something that those things do not hurt his numbers --
PINSKY: Weird.
CARDILLO: And, he is gaining the carpenters and the cops and the firemen and the plumbers and the electricians, the guys who vote. If you look at
the groups that he is resonating with, they turn out to vote at like 90 percent.
PINSKY: Yes, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. I was just saying that, yes, I am going to give my vote for him because in fact I think that we need a
President that is more about the financial state of the community as well as our economy.
PINSKY: When I have -- when people of color -- they are black or Hispanic, have told me that they are interested in Donald Trump, that is the two
issues I hear over and over, immigration and economy. I want to have the American dream back, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes.
PINSKY: You want seek potentially. You want to have -- you want to be excited. You want that to be dynamism. The potential for you and your
kids to thrive, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. Yes, we want our future to be more successful.
BLOOM: OK. But, you know, he has actually zero experience handling a political economy, right? He has absolutely no experience with that, at
all.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. Yes, neither did Barack Obama --
PINSKY: That is what he likes about him.
CARDILLO: Barack Obama has not either --
(LAUGHING)
BLOOM: And, actually , he economy -- look back the last 30 years, the economy has done markedly better under democratic Presidents. It just has,
Bill Clinton compared to George W. Bush. There is no comparison. Barack Obama rescued the economy from what George Bush did to it.
PINSKY: All right. Let me do this. Thank you sir. Let me play another tape about how the media is portraying -- and by the way, I may sound like
-- I am starting to sound like a Trump supporter. I do not have a horse in the race. I do not have a dog in the fight.
BLOOM: It is about understanding --
PINSKY: I am just fascinated by this whole phenomenon. If I am disturbed about anything it is the hubris of the press and media.
BLOOM: Yes .
PINSKY: Here is Whoopi Goldberg, whom I love, but look at her talking about Trump and Trump voters. Take a look at this. ABC.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WHOOPI GOLDBERG, ABC HOST OF "THE VIEW" PROGRAM: Trump is not funny. He is scaring people. Americans are afraid. I am constantly surprised at who
is supporting him. And, I do not know if the people who are supporting him realize that a lot of what he wants to do is unconstitutional. You cannot
do it and whether they are aware, I am not concerned about him. I am concerned about the people who are supporting him. That is the freak-out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: OK. Seth, you and I talked about this in the green room a little bit. That is what interests me is the people that is supporting him. It
says something about us. The average American seems to be kind of responding. What is that?
MYERS: Well, I think it speaks to a part of human nature that we like people who appear strong on the surface.
PINSKY: Especially in times where it is hard to define, you know, what the right direction is, right? I mean --
MYERS: Exactly. And, people have lost, you know, so much trust in Washington and he could not be further from, you know, Washington mentality
or really anything else that I could imagine .
PINSKY: So, it is -- again, I am trying to put a word through it. Is it anger? Is it frustration? Is it fear? Alex?
SWOYER: It is fear and frustration.
PINSKY: That is what I thought.
WATTS: I think that we are not only seeing it on an international level things that are frightening the heck out of us. We are seeing things right
here on the American shores that are frightening the heck out of us.
PINSKY: So, the question I want us all to think about, I am not going to go further with this question. I will get to the audience in just a
second, but is this what happens in history when a population gets fearful, they put up a demagogue and they make a mistake that is made over and over
again in history, or do they put a Reagan in office and it is exactly what we need? That is the question.
BLOOM: Well, one would hope we would learn from history. When demagogues have risen to power. People like Mussolini and Hitler. And, I am the last
person to compare anybody to people that. But, he is talking about registering Muslims. He is talking about keeping out an entire class of
people, Muslims. I mean this happened to my people, the Jews.
[21:20:10] And, I got to tell you, Jewish organizations that I am involved in, we are out there advocating, "Please, do not discriminate against
Muslims." Because we have a history and we understand it. And, these are our brothers and sisters and this is a dangerous threat.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Or John, is he taking this all over the extremes as a negotiating, a way to get a lot of attention?
CARDILLO: Barack Obama has been sucked a foreign policy disaster. The vacuum in Iraq created ISIS. People are thirsty. They are dying of thirst
for tough leadership and Trump is giving it to them.
We got a President who cannot even say that words radical Islamic terror. Trump is up there saying, "That is who the enemy is. I am going to kill
them. I am going to kill their friends. Kill their families, and Americans of red, white and blue, they are saying, yes.
PINSKY: Yes, ma`am?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: People are angry. I think the appeal of Donald Trump is that he is a crude sensationalist and I think people are
finding a way to express an anger that they cannot quite identify.
PINSKY: Uh-huh. I agree.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Beyond that, I do think that Donald Trump is this election cycle`s Palin.
PINSKY: You see it is close to it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I do.
PINSKY: But, by this point in Palin`s campaign, she was in trouble.
CARDILLO: Yes. He is secretariat in the Belmont stakes, so he is just pulling ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: When I say Palin, I think that their role, meaning the Palins and the Trumps is to be the litmus when you want
to test an extreme issue or topic you find a French person --
PINSKY: Well, and that is --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: -- a flamethrower.
PINSKY: Yes. And --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: And, he is a flamethrower.
PINSKY: And, it seems like, though, that -- yes, we all agree.
CARDILLO: Absolutely.
PINSKY: But, that may become a candidate.
CARDILLO: But, it is working this time around.
PINSKY: It is working and there is a reason for that. Anyway, I just want us all to think about it. He is not going away. We are going to keep
analyzing it. I appreciate you, guys` comments. I appreciate the audience`s comments.
We are going to switch gears. We are going to talk next about the latest on the dad accused of murdering an infant son. Was he texting -- or in
fact, sexting as the baby baked to death in the car? Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[21:26:23] PINSKY: Hot car dad about to stand trial for having murdered his son, who cooked in a hot car.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST OF "NANCY GRACE" PROGRAM: Damning evidence, daddy sex texting six different women sending photos of his erect penis.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Investigator said they had evidence this father and husband yearned to be single leading a sexually charged
double life with multiple women on the internet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ATTORNEY: Were photos being sent back and forth between these women and the defendant during this day, while the child was in the car?
DET. PHIL STODDARD, COBB COUNTY POLICE: Yes, there are photos of his exposed penis, erect penis being sent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: Sexting even the day his son was dying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DET. STODDARD: There were also photos of women`s breasts being sent back to him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAT BULLARD, T.V. HOST AND WRITER: I hope to God it was an accident. And, if it was not, I hope he burns in hell.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Hot car dad as he is called, Justin Ross Harris, faces life in prison if he is found guilty in the death of his son. Tonight, his defense
team is fighting to suppress what are, in fact, x-rated images that are on his cell phone. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DET. STODDARD: He was having up to six different conversations with different women. The most common term would be sexting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE LAWYER: Did she send him a picture that day?
DET. STODDARD: She did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE LAWYER: Of what?
DET. STODDARD: She sent a picture of her exposed breasts.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE LAWYER: And, did he send any pictures to her?
DET. STODDARD: He did. He sent a picture of his exposed erect penis.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Rolonda, Lisa, John, Alex and Seth. And, Lisa, how could he possibly suppress -- how could the defense team possibly suppress
something that is pertinent to his state of mind?
BLOOM: Well, because, legally, the question is whether the search warrant was specific enough to pass legal muster. Bottom line is, I think it is
going to come in and it is going to be very damaging to him. But, the question is, did he know his child was in the car, right?
Because people do sext, we do not like it, even married people do it. None of that would really matter if his child was in the car unaccompanied and
he probably knew about it. That is the bad part.
WATTS: Yes.
CARDILLO: I mean look, as a cop, the worst thing -- the worst job you respond to is a dead child. And, I like -- when fact pattern do not make
sense, people are typically guilty. Nothing about this guy`s story makes sense.
PINSKY: Well, no. There is --
WATTS: And, the fact that he was looking up information --
CARDILLO: Right. On how to --
WATTS: Googling information on --
CARDILLO: That is my point. On how to kill a child.
WATTS: How to kill child in a car..
CARDILLO: Yes. I mean --
WATTS: How long a child could survive.
CARDILLO: -- "I forgot my kid because she was sexting." That just does not make sense.
PINSKY: Well, that does though, it make sense to me. When people -- It is like any other addiction when people get so into their addiction, they
start focusing on that as a priority over everything else. They do not take care of their work. They do not take care of their family. The
attorneys for Justin Ross Harris are also fighting to keep the internet history away from the jury. Here is why. Take a look.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SHAWN MURPHY, COBB COUNTY HOMICIDE INVESTIGATOR: Mr. Harris had made statements to the extent he had recently searched through the internet,
child death`s inside vehicles and what temperature it occurs at and that this was one of his biggest fears.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE ATTORNEY: Were you aware that his wife was also interviewed --
MURPHY: Yes, she was.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE ATTORNEY: And, did she disclose anything to the detectives in terms of her having a similar fear involving the death of her
child in a car?
MURPHY: Yes. The detectives that interviewed her, I believe they went to the daycare to speak with her because that is where she was at. They said
that she made similar statements that this was one of her biggest fears.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Alex, you are an attorney, what do you think?
SWOYER: I agree with Lisa. I definitely think that this is going to come in. The issue I found interesting was a local report said that his cell
phone was actually confiscated before he was actually arrested.
So, when we are talking about, you know, what he was texting or sexting in terms of his cell phone, I am not sure how that would play out, because
what it did say in the search warrant, it more pertained to what he was Googling. So, the evidence about the search is possibly on his computer,
about how long to keep a child in the car.
[21:30:008] PINSKY: But, let me -- let me -- I have the list here of some of the terms he was looking on his computer. Put it up there, if we could.
Here we go. There it is. It includes, child free, how to survive prison - -
CARDILLO: What?!
PINSKY: -- age of consent --
BLOOM: It is over.
PINSKY: -- people dying.
CARDILLO: Come on.
PINSKY: It is really -- It is very bizarre. Seth, I want to believe -- the only way I can make sense of this, and here is my thing. If this guy
were a murdering psychopath, I would expect to see a history of problematic behavior for a long time. Would you agree with that?
CARDILLO: Yes. You know, so with -- Yes.
PINSKY: Yes. So, then I go, "OK, well, he does not seem to be psychopath" -- there has to be evidence of that. I mean that search sounds
psychopathic to me, but maybe it is a terrible coincidence. I do not know. But, I can believe that he was a sex addict that got so deep in that he
really had a terrible consequence. Is that how you would interpret it?
CARDILLO: I think that is a real possibility. I think looking at the big picture, this is a guy who had a child but realized too late that he -- it
turns out he did not really want to be a parent. And, I think what he did with those feelings may indicate psychopathic traits. I have never gotten
the sense that he had any remorse whatsoever --
WATTS: Exactly.
CARDILLO: -- for the death of his son which, you know, no parent can imagine.
PINSKY: In fact, the police say he was on the phone when the police arrived and he refused to hang up on the phone. They still do not know,
who he was talking to. But, take a quick listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE ATTORNEY: He was on the phone, acting erratically, I think is the term we have heard before. Is that a fair characterization?
JACQUELYN PIPER, COBB COUNTY POLICE DETECTIVE: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE ATTORNEY: And, was he still on the phone at the time you were trying to talk to him?
DET. PIPER: That is correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE ATTORNEY: All right. And, did he say anything to you to try to get you to leave him alone at that point and time?
DET. PIPER: No. He simply motioned with his hands to hold on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE ATTORNEY: And, how did you respond to that?
DET. PIPER: It was Officer Polian (ph) who asked him to then to get off the phone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE ATTORNEY: And, at that point and time, is that when he got off the phone?
DET. PIPER: He did not get off the phone himself. That is when he stepped forward towards her, small officer, and from there we had to detain him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Lisa, he apparently told the arresting officer to "F-you." Nice.
BLOOM: Oh, that is nice. But, see, I am less convinced about things that happened after wards, after the child died, after the police come. You
could say he is in shock. He is behaving very badly. That could happen. But, what happened before is highly significant, those Google searches.
PINSKY: Oh, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: What would be a good reason to Google how long your child has to be in the car in order to die?
(CHUCKLING)
CARDILLO: Exactly.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: What is a good reason to Google that?
PINSKY: Well, they said -- did you hear what their defense was? They said it was one of their deepest fears.
BLOOM: Yes. So, he has to be the unluckiest guy in the world, that is his fear.
CARDILLO: Yes.
BLOOM: He does not do anything to prevent the fear from coming true.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: It is every parent`s deepest fear, but I do not think they start researching how to survive jail along with
that fear or the age of consent.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Well, he was sexting alongside of that. He have not figured out which girls to sext with.
CARDILLO: Everything about this screams premeditation. I mean it is almost -- if it was not such a tragic case, it would be like a satire
movie.
BLOOM: Imagine how the women must feel who were sexting with him.
CARDILLO: Yes.
BLOOM: Now that they find out absolutely what happened to the child.
PINSKY: Are they going to have to testify?
BLOOM: They might.
PINSKY: Oh. Now, is it a reach to try to prove premeditated murder here?
BLOOM: I do not think so.
PINSKY: So, is that what they are going for with this?
CARDILLO: I believe they are. That penalty is on the table.
BLOOM: Yes.
SWOYER: Yes. Death penalty.
CARDILLO: It is, right?
PINSKY: Oh, my God. All right, well, next up, was it some sort of preoccupation? Was it murder as the law enforcement professionals are
telling us? We have more on the accused hot car dad. I feel like I am back in the Jodi Arias days with this hot car story. Be right back.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[21:37:46] GRACE: A tot boy literally bakes dead in the family car.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Justin Ross Harris is charged with three counts of murder including malice murder. It is Georgia`s most serious
crime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: He says he forgot his son was in the car.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: He is in court fighting to suppress evidence, so the jury will never know the truth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HOST OF "POP TRIGGER" ON HULU.COM: Two life insurance policies on this child.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: He is going to websites about leaving a child-free life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHACHER: The circumstantial evidence is through the roof.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The dad is looking up video after video, how long it takes an animal to die in a hot car. I have never looked up children dying in a hot
car.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Nancy, neither have I. I got to admit that. Justin Ross Harris says, though, he is not guilty in the death of his baby son, Cooper. It is
a tragedy no matter how you look at it. His lawyer calls the toddler`s death, quote, "A gut wrenching accident." Back with Rolonda, Lisa, John,
Alex, and Seth. And, Lisa, what would you do to defend a guy like this?
BLOOM: Well, it is gut wrenching, but he does get a defense. I think the best argument is, the searches may have been on his devices, his phone, his
computer, but prove that he did it, right? We saw that in Casey Anthony. Maybe his wife did it. She behaved very erratically afterwards.
PINSKY: Well, she did.
BLOOM: If she did those searches --
PINSKY: Apparently, she did do some of those searches, it turned out.
BLOOM: Right.
PINSKY: But, she is only --
BLOOM: So, the prosecution got to show -- if they can get that evidence in, they got to show it was him not just --
PINSKY: She has not been charged. Her name is Leanna. She has not been charged, but what do we know about her, Rolonda?
WATTS: Well, we know that she is claiming that she is as much as a victim as anybody else here. She is saying that --
PINSKY: Of the husband?
WATTS: That is right. She is saying that she is being vilified because of her perceived lack of emotion. And, there was a tremendous amount of lack
of emotion on both ends and that is what investigators are pointing to. They are saying that when she met her husband at the police station, the
first thing that she said was, "So, did you say too much?"
BLOOM: Oh!
WATTS: And, then she also released a statement and she said she is standing by her man. She wrote it as you are seeing here. "Ross was a
wonderful father. He loved Cooper with all of his heart. I know without a doubt he would never have knowingly allowed any harm to come to our son. I
want you to know what a loving father he was to Cooper."
PINSKY: Alex, it gets gross, no?
[21:40:00] SWOYER: Definitely. And, I mean maybe she is wanting to stay married to him because they need to make sure they do not have to testify
against each other.
WATTS: That is right.
BLOOM: Because they are going to get that life insurance.
CARDILLO: That is right.
WATTS: Too.
PINSKY: Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: So, my question is this, It sounds like a lot of people are trying to justify his actions by saying, "Oh,
maybe he was a sex addict. Maybe X, Y, Z." And, I --
PINSKY: Well, we are trying to understand his behavior, because it seems incomprehensible.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Well, comprehend that he is just a bad person. OK. Period.
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
PINSKY: But, would not you expect to see -- you may be right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes.
PINSKY: But, would not you expect to see previous history of that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: OK. If people flip out if you leave a dog in a car, why are we justifying him leaving his own son in a car?
PINSKY: Is anybody justifying it?
CARDILLO: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Well, they are justifying it like, "Oh, well, he was sexting. He was at work." You know you have
responsibilities when you have a baby. You have to feed the baby. You have to change diapers. How would you forget leaving your brand-new
newborn son in the back of a hot sun --
WATTS: John and I were sitting here just saying that we go on vacation. I do not have kids. I have a cat and a dog. But, even on vacation we are
constantly calling back, "Is everything OK with the house? Are the kids OK?" And, I cannot imagine seven hours without checking on a child.
BLOOM: OK. But, people do accidentally, negligently leave children in hot cars.
CARDILLO: But not seven hours.
PINSKY: But it happens --
BLOOM: But, that is something we can understand, because I am a parent and I have not been perfect for my children`s entire lives. I have not made a
mistake like this, thank God, but we all made mistake. We can understand making mistakes.
PINSKY: Yes.
BLOOM: But, what you are trying to do is understand how he could intentionally do this.
PINSKY: It is inconceivable intentionality without a long history of psychopathic behavior, right? But you are saying -- I do not know. I just
do not see people just all after sudden do something horrific like this.
CARDILLO: Well, you know, psychopaths are very fascinating because first of all, you only know, about the behavior that a psychopath has been caught
for.
WATTS: That is right.
PINSKY: That is true.
CARDILLO: There could have been a lot of stuff that happened in the past that we do not know about.
PINSKY: That is true. Yes, ma`am?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Let us just face it. He is a despicable person. He did not want to be a parent. He did not want to be
a husband. He is sitting up there sexting, and he is going to court every day looking miserable and pitiful.
PINSKY: But by not wanting to be, do you mean -- would not you think he would do something systemic to get rid of his burden?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: It is just plain and simple premeditated murder. He did the research and he looked it up. He left the
child knowingly in the car. He is looking up how to survive prison. As a former correction officer, he is not going to survive.
WATTS: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Unless, they put him in PC, in protective custody, he is going to die, because that is the worst thing
that the criminals hate is crimes against children.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: John.
CARDILLO: Well, I mean, she is 100 percent right. OK? She is right. He is not going to survive prison. But, everybody is giving this guy too much
credit for intelligence. He is a moron. He is a moron. He went out and Googled how to kill his kid, not realizing that a simple subpoena can get
all that information in 30 seconds, but he did it.
PINSKY: Well, but that --
WATTS: But, it looks like he knew he was going to get caught, too, to look up the terms.
CARDILLO: Yes, that makes him a loser.
PINSKY: But -- OK. He is a moron. How did he maintain a job?
CARDILLO: Well, I mean, let us face it, plenty of dumb people can maintain a job.
PINSKY: Foolish is one thing. You would have to be really impaired.
CARDILLO: Right. But, this is an act where all logic and reason goes out the window, anyways. And, Seth is right. How many people did I lock up
for murder, rape, robbery, violent crimes that had no criminal records. They just had not been caught for it.
It does not mean they did not do it. And, then when you started interrogating them, you find out they were bad guys for a long time and
they mock you for not having caught them.
PINSKY: Agree.
CARDILLO: So, I am not going to doubt that this guy --
PINSKY: I am naive -- I think I am a naive person.
(LAUGHING)
CARDILLO: Right. This guy I am sure killed animals and other things --
PINSKY: Right.
CARDILLO: -- in the course of his life. Once the investigators get him and interrogate him or a psychologist like Seth does, we are going to find
out a lot more about him.
PINSKY: Well, if you were to see even one torture of an animal, "OK, that is it. We got him."
CARDILLO: There you go.
WATTS: Arson.
PINSKY: Yes, ma`am. Arson, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Our question right now is about the two life insurance policies.
PINSKY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Now, I am a parent and I did not have a great job. I did not make a lot of money, but it did not occur to get
life insurance on my children.
BLOOM: Right.
PINSKY: In fact, I did not know that you could get life insurance on your kids. What is their worth unless you work on a farm or something?
SWOYER: And, I believe the audience -- I was thinking the same thing, the audience`s reaction when you played the tape was a gasp, you know, like,
"Oh, we all watch the crime shows. There is always the life insurance policy right before the murder." And, it said that he had -- the child had
two life insurance policies.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Two. I wonder how much they were worth.
BLOOM: Right. You can take out life insurance on anyone. But, I think what he was thinking is, you know, I do not want to be a father. Instead
of just walking away from the family, then I will be vilified, I am going to be the victim of this horrible tragedy with my son dying and everyone is
going to feel sorry for me. That is probably what he was thinking.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: There is this Munchausen Syndrome with people who killed their children for the sympathy that they gain.
PINSKY: Yes. But, usually, again -- usually that is a syndrome. It is usually something that has to start somewhere. You are right. Listen.
And, again --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Well, he is young. How old is he.
[21:45:00] PINSKY: I prefer the naive world I lived in 20 minutes ago, where we only had to worry about was Donald Trump. But, thank you. Thank
you for your comments. We are going to keep this going. But, I want to remind everyone tomorrow please join us. We are going to have a special
show. We are entitling it Muslim in America. "Muslims in America."
We are going to fill our audience with people of Muslim faith, Muslim- Americans. And, we are going to investigate and really try to reach an understanding of what their issues, how they perceive, for instance, Donald
Trump, the backlash against him, the reaction of the San Bernardino slaughter. What we do, how do we get everyone on the same boat here as
Americans. That is what I want to know.
WATTS: I will be watching.
PINSKY: All right. Right back. More after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: We are still talking about 22-month-old Cooper Harris, who died after being left in a hot car for seven hours. Investigators say the
temperature inside may have reached as much as 175 degrees. Back with Rolonda, Lisa, John, Alex, and Seth.
[21:50:14] And, you know, you, guys, are persuading me that this is something that somebody is capable of -- listen, I try to understand
people`s behavior and I see their behavior, it fits certain patterns. This does not fit a pattern that we know of yet. But, you are convincing me
that there might be something that we do not know. Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I think this guy is total garbage.
PINSKY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I have a toddler son and I went to a 7- eleven just to get like milk or some, you know, small little item. I ran leaving the store like minutes, I took him in there and held him in my
hands to talk to the clerk. So, seven hours? I mean this guy is just a total garbage.
BLOOM: Right.
PINSKY: In that matter, Lisa, is it legal to leave your kid in the car at all?
BLOOM: No. Of course, not a baby.
PINSKY: But, at all, right?
BLOOM: So, of course not. But, I mean, what I think he claims is he forgot. He thought he dropped his child off at daycare and of course this
is terrible. But, I can tell you that I have covered a number of cases like this over the years where people do legitimately space out, like there
is a change in their schedules.
PINSKY: Yes.
BLOOM: They thought they drop the kid off. The child is asleep in the car seat. They go to work.
WATTS: Yes, but they say when he parked, he backed into his parking space, which means he had to turn around and look, there is a baby.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: If you are going to try to understand it, I would understand it the way you would think about a drug addict. If he is that far into the
sexting and the sex and the multiple women, all this stuff, they can be altered, they can really be in an altered state much the way somebody on a
drug who gets in car accidents, and falls down, does not function --
BLOOM: But while his baby is baking to death in the car?
PINSKY: Listen. It is not an excuse. It makes it even more despicable.
BLOOM: How could you have sexual gratification of any kind while that is happening?
CARDILLO: I want to know who the six women were. Did you take a look at this guy?
PINSKY: I know.
CARDILLO: I mean who could the six women be?
(LAUGHING)
BLOOM: Yes, but this is online.
CARDILLO: Right. But, giving this guy play for seven hours while he forgot his child.
PINSKY: I want to play this tape. We have Lauren Lake, our frequent guest here on the show. She is a judge. She is a mother. And, just her passion
with which she could not get her head around is this accident defense. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAUREN LAKE, JUDGE: I love you, Dr. Drew. I love the show. I love being here. I thought about my child just sitting in this chair probably 10, 20
times. Did he eat? Is he in his pajamas? What is he doing right now? Just as a parent. I do not know how you get gone for seven hours, out to
lunch and you do not think to yourself, where is my baby?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Yes. So, there you go, right? Regardless of he is not a good guy, he is not a good parent, not a good husband, whether he is a sex
addict or not, it is not an excuse for this behavior, in fact it makes it weirder and creepier and grosser, and he may be a full-on psychopath. And,
I think that is the prevailing opinion, would not you say?
WATTS: Yes.
PINSKY: That is about what this guy is. Next up, I want to share with you some thoughts I have about former President Jimmy Carter. He has declared
that he is cancer free from his melanoma. I need to interpret that a little bit. We will back and I will explain it to you after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:53:14] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMY CARTER, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I went for an MRI of my brain, the four places were still there but they were responding to the treatment.
And when I went this week, they did not find any cancer at all. So, I have good news.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Which is wonderful, of course, and that is NBC video of former President Jimmy Carter announcing or at least people have been declaring
that he is cancer free. And, I have to tell you that there is no such thing as cancer free from metastatic melanoma.
He had disease on his brain and liver and he has been the subject of immunotherapy treatment, which is a brand new -- well, not brand new. It
has been on for a little while. But, it is a break through treatment particularly for cancers like melanoma. It is revolutionizing cancer
treatments.
I daresay that immunotherapies are -- if not the important, probably one of the most important cancer breakthroughs, perhaps ever. And, Melanoma is a
-- once it is metastatic, once it spreads all over the body, there is no such thing as a cure at times as far as we know.
But, what these immunotherapies do is they allow the cells, the tumor cells to be identified by your immune system. Your immune system is going to
attack them. There are proteins -- I do not want to go too deep, and there is proteins on the surface of the tumor that you can attach something to
it, so the immune system can see it, basically.
It is something the cancer learns how to push the immune system away, so it could grow. These immunotherapies allow the immune system to come back in
and attach themselves and destroy the tumor. And, people are living a long time as a result, but they are not cured of melanoma, not yet anyway.
But, one day soon these immunotherapies are going to be of a curative nature. And, listen, if Jimmy Carter lives three, four, five more years,
that is as long as we can expect to live just given his advanced age. That is great news.
Now, tomorrow we have a special show. We are calling it "Muslims in America." You will hear from our live audience of Muslim-Americans. You
will hear about terrorism. You will about Trump and some of the backlash or what they are having to put up with that perhaps, again, those of us who
are not Islamic do not know they are having to deal with.
I want to know what is it like? What would they like? How do we get together as Americans? I told Lisa that at her Alma Mater at Yale, they
are passing a petition around to repeal the first amendment. I do not think that is the answer.
WATTS: No. No.
PINSKY: Just call me crazy. I do not think --
BLOOM: I am so glad you are including Muslim-Americans in the conversation.
PINSKY: Of course. Listen. We are Americans. Let us do this together. Please DVR the show, then you can watch us anytime. Thank you, panel.
Great job. Audience, thank you for joining us, as always. Thank you all for watching us. And, be sure to tune in tomorrow for that "Muslims in
America" story. We have Muslims in our audience only. See you then.
[22:00:10] (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
END
