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Dr. Drew
Inside the Violence In America`s Classrooms. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired December 29, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DREW PINSKY, DR DREW ON CALL HOST: And tonight, inside America`s classrooms, punching, hitting, handcuffing, violence between and among
students and teachers. It appears to be on the rise. What is causing all this mayhem and who is going to stop it? It all begins right now.
We`re spending the hour looking at aggression in our schools, student versus teacher, teacher versus student, resource officers. Did this school
resource officer go too far when an unruly student refused to leave the classroom? Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEN FIELDS, SOUTH CAROLINA SHERIFF: Put your hands behind your back. Give me your hands. Give me your hands.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That student is a 16-year-old girl who refused orders from the teacher and an administrator. She refused to leave the classroom at their
order. The student resource officer has subsequently been fired and then 150 students from that high school protested his termination.
Joining me Rolonda Watts host of the podcast "Rolanda On Demand". Also, AnneElise Goetz, attorney, host of the podcast "Your Life and the Law".
Segun Oduolowu , entertainment journalist. Lisa Bloom, civil rights lawyer at the Bloom firm and Lee Wallis for avvo.com and Cheryl Dorsey, sergeant
LAPD retired, author of "The Creation of a Manifesto, Black & Blue". And Cheryl, I`m going to you first. Where did this go off the rail?
CHERYL DORSEY, LAPD RETIRED: Well, I think the officer became personally involved in his interaction wit this young lady and I think he was more
concerned with punishing her, with making her pay.
PINSKY: But to be fair and be polemical about this, she refuses a teacher, she refuses administrator for all we know. We don`t really know what
happened prior to this video we`ve all been mortified watching. Is it all on the officer?
DORSEY: Well certainly, she has a responsibility to do what she`s told and I don`t know what the consequences traditionally are at that school for
students who don`t. You would think they would have a system in place where you`re given an opportunity to do a thing, comply, and if you don`t
there`s a consequence. How about you don`t come back to my class for a couple of days?
PINSKY: Lisa.
LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY: There is no excuse for a police officer to get physical with a minor unless that minor is a danger to herself or somebody
else in the classroom. She`s sitting there, yes, she`s not complying, she`s not doing what the teachers telling her to do.
(OFF-MIC)
PINSKY: ... class can`t go on?
BLOOM: You know how many kids don`t do what the teacher tells them to do on a daily at 40 percent, 50 percent? Are we going to have police officers
come and throw them all across the room? I mean do we have such a failure of imagination when it comes to disciplining kids that this is all we can
think of?
PINSKY: Annelise your...
(CROSSTALK)
ANNEELISE GOETZ, ATTORNEY: It wasn`t anything violent actually happening. And what I think the problem that we`re seeing over and over again is that
teachers are knee jerk bringing in police officers as opposed to actually administering in their classrooms.
PINSKY: OK, so that`s an interesting point which is of the resource officers were there to address criminal conduct right?
GOETZ: Yeah.
PINSKY: Not teacher`s discipline, not misbehavior talking back students, no?
GOETZ: This is on a new novel concept. When I was in high school, when i was in junior high, fights broke out and teachers, administrators dealt
with it. And we didn`t have officers. We didn`t call for backup. And the whole thing happened so quickly, too. That`s a part of their job. It`s a
part of their job to deal with children.
PINKSKY: The ball was dropped and the ball was -- first by the parents and -- but it`s easy to do that you have misbehaving child like "Oh bad
parenting."
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, ENTERTAINMENT JOURNALIST: But the teacher. I mean I -- look I want to call the teacher some pretty choice language.
PINSKY: We can have a teacher in here later is going to defend teacher...
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: But I`ve been a teacher. I was an eight grade English teacher.
PINSKY: OK, OK.
ODUOLOWU: I`ve been in classrooms and you better be able to command the respect of your students. And you should not have to if a kid is not
complying, have to resort to going outside and calling for backup and that backup is power lifting...
PINSKY: Respectfully, you`re a 210 pound, 6 foot 3 male.
ODUOLOWU: Right.
PINSKY: It`s a little easier for you to command respect than if you`re someone Rolanda side.
ODUOLOWU: No, because it`s not about...
PINSKY: As I much I...
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: I was afraid of Miss Johnson growing up in my class. I know how to respect teachers. I may know how to command respect. That`s teacher
having to call for backup. First of all, lost all control of the classroom because what she do stick her head out, what he do stick his head out to
call that person in? Now, the class is doing whatever they want. It`s these teachers that need to be trained better how to handle situations
where you don`t have a power lifting cop dumbing the desk on a little girl.
PINSKY: Rolonda, how about the entitlement and, you know, the way young people are being raised today. I mean what was going on college campus.
I`m not sure where that`s going, it`s another topic I want to get into but there seems to be a sense of, "hey, we`re in charge and no respect for
authority." I don`t know if it`s lack of respect for authority or...
ROLONDA WATTS, HOST, ROLONDA ON DEMAND: You know something, I hear so many people talk and I hate to talk it this way but this is what I hear a lot
about the millennials. There`s a sense of entitlement that they are just not playing by the rules of the game, so to speak. But the sad thing about
is Dr. Drew is that the two little girls are involved in this, even though what that officer did was so wrong...
PINSKY: Two?
WATTS: Yeah, the other girl, remember who came up with the pictures?
GOETZ: That`s where the friend came, and came to her defense and is also being charged.
WATTS: Is also being charged for the same...
GOETZ: Disrupting a school.
WATTS: Disrupting a school.
ODUOLOWU: Disrupting of a school.
WATTS: But here`s the sad thing. As long as these girls are going to be living, they`re going to have this follow them.
PINSKY: Not only that, what a great way to deal with somebody`s behavior, make them a criminal.
GOETZ: And the problem is that we`re doing this creating a pipeline from the classroom to the courtroom and no one wins in that scenario. You got
kids that have records. They`re put into juvenile. And so, once you`re in that system, I`m not saying you can`t get out but it`s hard. There`s a
whole baloney.
PINSKY: Listen, I don`t -- I also don`t want to race but does race an issue in this?
ODUOLOWU: Absolutely race is an issue. It`s very easy for that police officer to dump that desk on a black girl because that girl doesn`t
represent his niece or his daughter or anybody that`s familiar to him.
PINSKY: Somebody help me here. I don`t know.
ODUOLOWU: It`s too easy for him. It`s easy for him to do that.
BLOOM: I`m just going to help you because I agree. Look, if we look at all of the incidents that police abuse of unarmed people,
disproportionately it`s African-American in America that`s who we`re talking about. That`s the data that you have to grapple with. We don`t
like it, we wish it wasn`t, we don`t want it to be but that is the data, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Cheryl, what is that?
DORSEY: I agree. I think that race does play a part. Because when you can`t relate to that person, when you don`t look at them, that could be my
daughter, that could be my niece, it`s very easy then to objectify someone because they become a thing. They`re this thing you throw across the room.
WATTS: And I think that`s happening all across the nation with people look at that video. They`re saying what if that happened to my daughter and I
don`t care what color you are. That`s was violent behavior. That nobody wants to happen to their child.
PINSKY: So you`re saying race is not an issue somehow or they start to respond to it.
WATTS: Well, I`m saying that is immediately, that we always say race is an issue and I do believe a lot of times it is. But I think that any mother
or father sitting at home says what`s going on in our schools? Well, I mean, nobody wants that to happen to their child.
PINSKY: Well, that is the theme for the afternoon today. And Elise, last words?
GOETZ: When it comes to race, what we saw with that interaction, it could`ve been one the underlying factors. But actual, with kids -- the way
the kids are in the schools right now, I think the problems we`re seen has nothing to do with race. I think that kids are a little bit different than
they were back when we were in school.
ODUOLOWU: The way they`re getting treated...
PINSKY: The treatment, let`s hang that out there for our consideration, are kids different right now? Because we`re going to look at some of the
behavior on campus, and how they`re being treated. We`ll try to work through that in course of this hour.
What our teachers having to put up with, for instance, how aggressive, how hostile are the students? Here`s a teacher who just sat calmly while
students attacked, was that appropriate? Back for more for this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WATTS: You`re looking at these young people, not one person stood up and said "Hey, you all stop this." Not one person stood up. It`s about the
character of these young people, I think.
MIKE CATHERWOOD: This is what happens with kids nowadays because attention is more important than anything. You know, you can get on world star hip
hop or get on Facebook with a viral video.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If this is how they treat a substitute teacher, how are these kids treating other students at school?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Education was the one thing that my great grandparents and great grand mother instilled on us that they cannot take away from you.
And you have these young kids, these cowards, throwing their free education away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: If you don`t value it. And this is, of course, outrageous behavior from high school students of Chicago who taunt, threaten their
substitute teacher. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No way, way.
(OFF-MIC)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, ask what my name is again!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, no, you shouldn`t throw your -- whatever you`re throwing, just throw them away. (Inaudible) throw them away. OK, young
lady, I`m going to have to ask you to have a seat.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible) I`m going to smack a whole bag of M&Ms.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Rolonda, AnneElise, Segun, Lisa, and Cheryl. Rolonda, you know, you said they -- no one stands up, they are all laughing and
giggling?
WATTS: Yeah, that`s what bothered me most. First of all it`s such a privilege to have an education. Education is freedom.
PINSKY: Now it`s considered a burden. We`re burdening kids with education.
WATTS: I know and they`re getting in their own way. And what really bothered me there was the other students standing around then laughing.
And that poor teacher -- I, you know, I don`t know if I could have been that calm.
PINSKY: And I think she was great. But Segun, you took issue, if i remember with that video back when we first reported on it saying that she
should have commanded respect just like you were talking about the...
ODUOLOWU: Right. She sat there very meekly and was just kind of, you know, dispassionate like you all don`t pay me enough to get involved in any
of this then don`t be a teacher.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She might be scared.
ODUOLOWU: Listen, I don`t if you`re scared, frightened, that`s not the job for you. Like we`ve agreed that these kids might be a different type of
thinking individual but when you step into that classroom, you wear a title like a priest does, like a principal does, like a coach does and a teacher.
And you always called Miss Johnson, Miss Johnson that was your teacher, command respect.
WATTS: Yeah, but where did the breakdown, decorum come from? Who were -- are the teacher, I mean our teachers, parents...
BLOOM: It`s not just about that.
ODUOLOWU: No, it`s parents.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: Here`s what we`re not talking about.
PINSKY: What do we not?
BLOOM: Okay, i have a foster son. I`ve interviewed a lot of especially troubled boys for my book "Swagger". Every time a child acts out, there`s
a reason.
ODUOLOWU: Of course.
BLOOM: I can guarantee you there as a problem with their home life, if there`s any problem, there`s trauma.
PINSKY: OK. So the trauma just strike down.
BLOOM: And so, when we taught (ph) when the package coming into the segment was a lot of people saying "These kids, kids these days." It`s
almost like those people. These are our children. These are the children of our country. What needs do they have that are not being met before?
ODUOLOWU: Those are my kids. No, no, those aren`t my kids.
BLOOM: There is something going on. That`s why they`re acting that.
ODUOLOWU: Listen, we typically agreed. Those aren`t my kids and that`s not how I was raised.
BLOOM: OK. So your kids are perfect.
ODUOLOWU: No, no, I`m not saying that. What I`m saying is if the kids, if they`re not going to be taught at home, you`ll be taught outside. So those
kids acting up in the classroom, I`m putting it squarely on the parent. But if a teacher is going to enter into that forward, you got to do more
than just sit there meekly. But I`m telling you, I`m on the phone if somebody`s parent, somebody`s administration because that can happen. You
sat there just passionately.
BLOOM: No but I of course, will agree. So parents should do their job. But somebody don`t to their job and so it`s enough for us to...
WATTS: But then we have to do their job.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: ...all their bad parents and then their 40 (ph) kids are bad so let`s bring in a cop. And hold them up and handcuffs because they acted
out in class. I mean, I think we as a community have an obligation to take care of kids who are not being cared for by their parents, to meet their
needs.
DORSEY: I think the teacher had an affirmative responsibility to own that space. It seemed to me like in her...
PINSKY: But what if she`d called a resource officer? Would that have been right to what if she had become...
DORSEY: No, what she should have done was she should have commanded that space. She should have owned that room. They should have been fearful
that perhaps there`s a consequence if I don`t listen to this lady. She was so dispassionate that it almost gives me the impression she really didn`t
care. She didn`t care about this person`s -- what`s going on in their background.
ODUOLOWU: No that she sat there meekly.
GOETZ: I think she`s handling -- I also -- things got violent, unlike in other clips we`ve seen, things got violent in that clip.
PINSKY: Let me show you. Yeah.
GOETZ: And this is a perfect example but we want to have a law enforcement officer come in and help the teacher.
PINSKY: And let`s remind her. So she knew she was being filmed too. These days you`re scared to death of what the consequences of anything you
say, everything is going to be second judged. You know, judged in a court of public opinion. So it does get worse as how this was saying. Watch
what happens when the teacher ignores these students.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just give me the damn hand.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t it`s still useless. I need you to have a seat. For those of you here`s...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sit down.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you help me with my assignment?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sit down. Sit down in your chair.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Again, I need you to (inaudible) you could have a seat. All of you have a seat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sit your (inaudible) down in your chair.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Could you please just have a seat. Could you please get security.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Security, security.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s for the security for?
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want you to seat down in that seat though.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: At that point, are they going to respect anything besides force, AnneElise.
GOETZ: That`s when you bring in law enforcement. Because they`re lifting chairs, they`re lifting desks, there`s a whole community up...
PINSKY: But what if that law enforcement officer came in and started taking down the students with the kid with the desk over his head then we`d
be talking about the resource officer.
(CROSSTALK)
GOETZ: Could somebody actually talk to these kids about their problems. Instead of just incarcerating everybody in America?
PINSKY: You were singing, honey, what do you think you`re talking here?
GOETZ: We`re talking about authority, respect, bring in cops.
PINSKY: But I`m telling you to treat a kid like that takes years with an individual...
GOETZ: Well, let`s get moving on.
PINSKY: It would cost a fortune just for that one kid.
BLOOM: And how much would it cost to incarcerate someone?
PINSKY: Well, I agree with you.
ODUOLOWU: How about just performing three Is. I`m a teacher in a classroom. I got 13, 15, 20 kids to teach, one kid`s acting up, that kid`s
got to leave the room. Like, I`m going to do everything in my power to get you out of the room so I could administer my education...
PINSKY: Yeah, but she`s a substitute teacher.
ODUOLOWU: As a substitute teacher, you have to do everything to implant that lesson plan. So get that person out of the classroom. And if they
don`t want to leave, then, you call for help. What bothered me is the fact that she knew she was being taped and she allowed that to happen. Like in
the classrooms, there no cell like no cell phones. Don`t put a phone in my face as a student. She already lost all respect.
DORSEY: I feel like, police officers will say they don`t want to do their job because they`re being filmed. Maybe you`re not constituted for this
kind of profession and that`s OK. If you understand that this is not the job for you, then, please go do something that`s more suitable for your
temperament.
ODUOLOWU: Absolutely.
PINSKY: AnneElise.
GOETZ: So reason that that didn`t get 10 times worse than it was is because of the way that she reacted. I don`t think the way she`d be
throwing her under the bus here. If she started yelling and screaming at them, she could have been injured other people in that classroom could have
been injured. I don`t think she`s at fault here. I don`t think she`s a bad teacher. I think that she got through that lesson plan and got out
without anyone getting hurt and hopefully there was a phone call.
ODUOLOWU: That should never be the goal of a teacher to get out of a classroom without getting hurt.
GOETZ: No, no, no, when that is the scenario...
ODUOLOWU: That`s not good teaching.
GOETZ: When that is a scenario, then it is the goal. Get everyone out safe.
PINSKY: And she may have had less access to the kind of backup that we think she might have had. She may have been out there alone and had to in
fact get through without escalating things. I agree with AnneElise.
Next up, and we are dilatants here other than you, Segun. But, I`m going to bring in a teacher who`s had a student threaten to shoot her. What she
did about that, back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRYSTAL MCCADDEN, MOTHER OF A 7-YEAR-OLD KID WHO WAS HANDCUFFED BY A POLICE: I was told that when he walked in, he called my son "If you don`t
sit down, I`m going to handcuff you."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is cell phone video shot by Chrystal McCadden as she walked into Brownell Stem Academy. Her son handcuffed behind his back.
McCadden said the officer could not release her son because he did not have a key.
AREVA MARTIN: Putting handcuffs on a 7-year-old kid, can we just agree in this country we should never do that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The officer used handcuffs to restrain the child to prevent injury to the child or others. The officer eventually got a key
and released her son.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you can`t control a 7-year-old without putting him in handcuffs, then you don`t need to be in the classroom.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: A 7-year-old handcuffed for misbehaving in school. The mom says he has ADHD, but he`s never been violent. I`m back with Rolonda,
AnneElise, Segun and Lisa. And joining us Erin Reid, a teacher whom herself had a student threat to shoot her. I have also on Skype got John
Cardillo, WJNO radio host and on himself a former NYPD officer. And John, for a change, I`m going to go to you first. And, I want you to tell me, is
handcuffs for a 7-year-old appropriate protocol?
JOHN CARDILLO, FORMER OFFICER, NYPD: Look, it looks bad. But, you know, after we did the segment, first time I analyzed it further. I spoke to the
department, and with the information the officer had, it was the only tool available to him to ensure the student did not hurt himself or others.
And, while it looks horrible, unfortunately, that is what he had available and he was only trained to do that.
PINSKY: Is there something that you can tell us to help us understand how you arrived with that conclusion? I mean what did you learn that we do not
know?
CARDILLO: Well, that, that he was not -- that the department is small. They did not have the money for additional training -- training for what
they call for EDPs or psychiatric training. And, these are such isolated incidents, it`s so rarely happens, that an officer is called for a
potentially suicidal or violent 7-year-old, that with the training and knowledge he had at that moment, he felt handcuffs were the best solution
until medical professionals or a parent could arrive.
BLOOM: Are you kidding me! Are you kidding me that a trained police officer can`t handle an unarmed 7-year-old?
WATTS: 7-year-old.
BLOOM: I can guarantee you, you give me that 7-year-old. I don`t need to be armed. I can handle him until help arrives. What`s next, a 2-year-old?
CARDILLO: How would you handle it? How would you handle him? What he was scratching and biting you, what would you do?
BLOOM: OK. Well, then I would hold his hands, so he can`t do that.
CARDILLO: And, what if he is biting you? Hold on. What if he is biting...
BLOOM: He is freaking 7-years-old.
CARDILLO: What if he is biting your wrist?
BLOOM: He is like half my size, dude.
CARDILLO: What if he is biting you, what would you do then?
BLOOM: Well there`s a lot of what ifs. This is not actually what happened here.
CARDILLO: No. What would...
BLOOM: No. No, because police officers do not get to just say, you know, "What if, what if, what if." You are supposed to act and deal with the
facts as they are.
CARDILLO: And, Lisa -- Lisa, be honest, if that officer would have restrained the kid and the kid had a bruise, you would be sitting up here
screaming that the cop used excessive force. So, it was...
BLOOM: Yes. I sure would, because you should not be bruising a 7-year- old.
CARDILLO: Right. And so, you just -- hold on. You just admitted that no matter what the police officer did...
BLOOM: OK. You do not need to be yelling.
CARDILLO: You admitted that...
BLOOM: You don`t need to be yelling...
CARDILLO: Well, hold on. You keep cutting me off and I have a tech disadvantage. You just admitted that no matter what the police officer
did, he would be wrong in your eyes.
BLOOM: No, I did not admit that.
CARDILLO: You did.
BLOOM: Let us play the tape back.
PINSKY: Well, let me do this.
BLOOM: I never said that.
PINSKY: Hang on. Let me get a teacher in here. Erin, you have been in this situations...
ODUOLOWU: Oh, I am no longer a teacher here. A real teacher...
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: She`s has had very serious threats against her.
ERIN REID, TEACHER THREATENED BY STUDENT: I have.
PINSKY: Segun, I know you have been able to master your classrooms.
ODUOLOWU: Well, yes. I am the big guy.
REID: But let me clarify, I wasn`t threatened by a 7-year-old.
BLOOM: And nor did she handcuffed a 7-year-old.
REID: No and as a teacher and as a mother, I think that there should be other ways definitely to talk a kid down.
PINSKY: I agree with you. But, I just heard two things from John that one is that they did not have the training to do that. And, you as a teacher,
I`m sure, did.
BLOOM: You do not need training to talk to a 7-year-old.
REID: Thank you.
WATTS: Thank you.
ODUOLOWU: Well, I disagree.
BLOOM: Any human being can talk to a 7-year-old.
ODUOLOWU: But, what I know what -- I don`t agree with John very often, and it bothers me that I have to do that now. But, if that kid was violent,
and you were the person...
PINSKY: What if he was banging his head against the wall?
ODUOLOWU: And, you were the mother of another kid and they said, they could have restrained him with handcuffs or your kid would have been
stabbed with a pencil or scissors, you would have wanted that kid handcuffed. We do not know how violent the kid is. And, it looks bad, but
if that kid is that unruly and as John said, they do not have the training, which is the bad part, they are not trained properly how to talk that 7-
year-old down. If that kid is a danger to others, get him away from the other students.
GOETZ: But, get him away, you do not have to handcuff him.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: But there`s laws against that.
ODUOLOWU: You cannot lock him in a closet.
BLOOM: No. There`s in a room with a responsible adult, who any of us is twice this kid`s size. Let us remember, he is probably like maybe 3 feet
tall dripping wet.
ODUOLOWU: So, then you did not...
BLOOM: And, you lock the door.
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: Lisa, you can`t have it both ways. You cannot have it both ways.
BLOOM: And guess what else you have to do? You talk to him. You find out what the problem is.
ODUOLOWU: You can`t talk to the kid and talk the kid down while you are trying to administer to the other students. And, you can then separate
that kid, walk that kid to the separate room where something -- the kid could say you touched him when you take him to a separate room.
PINSKY: Right.
ODUOLOWU: There so many things...
BLOOM: So, let us take handcuffs to preschool then too because those kids act out a lot.
PINSKY: That is an interesting question. Where is the cut off? How old 5, 6, 4?
GOETZ: The cut off is before -- I mean it`s not 7. It`s is not 7.
PINSKY: But let us be clear, human bites are no fooling. I mean they are really serious that they get infected typically. They can destroy tendons.
BLOOM: Handcuffing doesn`t stop somebody from biting.
PINSKY: I do not know. At least you are not the one containing being in the cuffs yourself. But, let me go back to Erin. The teachers fear that
if they, themselves, like that one teacher we saw in the last segment that was just sitting calmly while students went cut nuts all around her.
Are they fearful of being filmed? Are they fearful if they call the police too soon or the resource officer, they are going to be criticized? Are
teachers scared right now to get their lawsuits?
REID: Well, it is two fold, because California law says we have to protect kids, and if the kid is endangering himself, endangering another student,
as a teacher, if a fight breaks out, obviously I will call security and they`ll come. But, if I do not do something to stop it and that child is
hurt, or God forbid worse in my classroom...
PINSKY: It is on you.
REID: ... then I could be held liable for not doing anything.
PINSKY: Not could, you would be.
BLOOM: Right. Correct.
REID: Yes. Absolutely.
PINSKY: Is like Lisa would come along in that. She`s already making the case.
BLOOM: No. I am not against Erin. Erin is obviously a very responsible. No, but if there is a serious injury and a teacher knows and fails to act,
yes there is liability there.
ODUOLOWU: But Lisa -- but then how would you -- OK, so, you are in the classroom. How would you handle this? She is in the classroom with a
violent student.
BLOOM: Call security.
ODUOLOWU: OK. She calls security.
PINSKY: What if there is no security...
GOETZ: The lynch pin is violent.
BLOOM: Yes.
ODUOLOWU: OK. Does she engage in the violence? Does she try to talk the violence down, or go and get a cop or police officer?
BLOOM: Well, yes. First, you try to talk to them. I mean I think, Erin can answer the question. The ultimate question is, how do you control a
classroom, right? Because kids are always going to be unruly.
REID: Well, that`s, you know, that`s a catch 22, right? It`s all about how you establish your classroom and what`s been established. The video
that we saw earlier, that was a substitute teacher, she has no control over the classroom. She has no rapport with her students. She has no...
PINSKY: And, we could not reasonably expect that she would.
REID: Right.
PINSKY: It`s a different list (ph) to many of when a woman coming as opposed to a 6`3" male coming in. It is just different. No?
REID: Well, it is not...
PINSKY: I mean, I`m just saying, maybe if you really have a skill set, you could...
REID: I don`t think it matters if you are male or female. I think you can command a classroom regardless.
BLOOM: You know, I`ll tell you something about parents, by the way.
ODUOLOWU: Good teachers as oppose to bad teachers.
BLOOM: When we say this about parents, the parents need to support teachers.
REID: Absolutely.
BLOOM: This is something I write about, my book...
PINSKY: Well, that is what I want to know of parents.
BLOOM: You have to teach your kids to respect teachers. Don`t undermine the teacher at home.
PINSKY: Of course.
BLOOM: Don`t bad mouth the teacher.
PINSKY: Listen, Lisa, I go around telling people all the time, the school and the teacher are your friends. They are your asset. They are an ally.
If they are telling you, there is something wrong with your kid, listen to them.
BLOOM: Yes.
PINSKY: Because they are there to help you help your kid.
BLOOM: Yes.
PINSKY: Don`t go, "What is wrong with the teacher? They do not like my kid?" That`s nonsense. But, my question Erin, we have been a little glib
about all these kids today, you know. I hate it, when we say it. We all choked on that when we said that.
ODUOLOWU: I don`t I say it loudly.
PINSKY: If there is some sort of change that you are seeing -- you have been teaching how many years?
REID: 16 years.
PINSKY: And, have you seen a change in the character? And, by character I`m using a very loose term, the quality of the students you are seeing, or
has it been pretty consistent?
REID: It`s been pretty consistent. Again, it`s how you run your classroom. It`s how you...
PINSKY: So, you are not...
GOETZ: What do you teach? What grade?
REID: I teach 9th grade English and 9th through 12th leadership class.
GOETZ: And, so over this whole period of time, kids fight, right?
REID: I have had to break up the fights in my classroom.
GOETZ: I mean, everyone keeps on talking about, oh, well, the kids these days. But kids have been fighting the whole time. You have got a whole
bunch of teenagers. You have hundreds of teenagers in the school and they`re crazy, because teenagers are crazy. Every once in a while, they`re
going to start fighting, like there`s nothing new about that.
PINSKY: Right.
REID: Right.
PINSKY: But I respond is...
REID: I have had to break up a physical fight in my classroom. And, you know, I`m not that strong of a female, but I was able to come in between
two male students, very large student and restrain him and walk him out of the classroom.
BLOOM: Good for you.
PINSKY: Yes. Good for you.
REID: And, another student called security immediately, and it was handled right away. But, I can tell you, when I went into the parent meeting, the
kid denied that it happened. He didn`t start the fight in my classroom and dad came in, you know, with a neck tattoo that said, "Only God can judge
me."
ODUOLOWU: Well, kudos to you, but...
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: Kudos to you for running a classroom where you could do that. Like the kids actually listened to you.
PINSKY: Yeah.
GOETZ: Absolutely.
BLOOM: Yes.
PINSKY: There`s a testimony to her skill set.
All right. Next up, we`re going to look at a principal, who himself is body slammed by a student. How did it get to is this point? We`re getting
into it after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Students are scrambling and screaming while a fight is breaking out in the commons at Florin High. You see a student
wrestle and slam a grown man to the ground. That man is Florin High Principal, Don Ross, who gets right back on his feet and continues his
efforts to break up the fight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That was a cell phone recording in Sacramento classroom. A student caught on camera body slamming the principal during a fight.
Eventually, a resource officer steps in and breaks the fight up. Back with Rolonda, AnneElise, Segun, Lisa and Erin.
So, Segun, is it right for the principal to get involved with that the way he did?
ODUOLOWU: I think he has to. You have to get involved in some way to break it up, but you don`t want to bite off more than you can chew. I
mean, this principal went in there and this kid is, you know, popped up on rage and adrenaline and slams him to the ground. To the principal`s
credit, he gets right back up.
WATTS: Right back up.
ODUOLOWU: And, here`s the thing that people don`t realize how well trained that principal is. There are people who have gotten slammed -- who would
have immediately started throwing punches at the student.
PINSKY: Yeah. Right.
ODUOLOWU: Would have resorted into a street fight.
PINSKY: Yes.
ODUOLOWU: This whole goal was to...
PINSKY: Safety.
ODUOLOWU: ... was to restrain this kid.
PINSKY: Yes.
ODUOLOWU: So, that`s -- my problem is, where are the other administrators and teachers and gym teachers and anybody else in that school?
PINSKY: Scared. I`m scared watching it.
ODUOLOWU: That man could be...
PINSKY: It`s reasonable to be scared.
ODUOLOWU: That man is much older and probably not the youngest guy on the campus. That, he`s the only one who is brave enough to try and restrain at
all costs, restrain. It is a testament to him.
WATTS: At some point, the students are going to have to make a decision too, Dr. Drew. I mean, how many times are you going to stand by and watch
somebody be abused and not stand up and say something, do something? I`m not quite sure what that is to do, but...
PINSKY: I am confused by what all the complaints are on college campuses about students not feeling safe and then I look at what`s going on their
high school, that looks less safe than what`s going in colleges and yet that is what they are complaining. Am I out something here...
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: Well, I think it`s a different issue on colleges. They`re talking about racial, micro-aggressions, you know, gender bias...
PINSKY: Those are -- I am looking at not micro-aggressions here.
BLOOM: No. That`s true.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: I think this is a little more serious here.
BLOOM: But, I mean I think its apple and oranges. Of course, nobody is in favor of violence whether it`s in high school or college.
REID: You have to empower your students to take control of the school.
WATTS: Absolutely. Absolutely.
REID: And, especially at a high school. We don`t give high school kids enough credit. You know, I teach bright, brilliant kids that would step
forward and change the culture of the school. When I started teaching at my school, we had a lot of gang issues 16 years ago. Now...
PINSKY: That where you gone into these threats against you?
REID: No. Unfortunately -- I mean no, that was not -- that had nothing to do with gang.
PINSKY: What happened?
REID: To make a long story short, as my students always say, I talk too much. Kids at his table asked him to get his work out. I went walked over
to administer with another group, and the students said, "You know, Ms. Reid, if you don`t get your workout for Ms. Reid, you know, she is going to
get mad at you. You know, she is going to kill you. You better get your stuff out."
And, I heard the kid say, she is not going to kill me, because I will get a gun and I will shoot her. And, I kind of you know, you hear "gun" and
especially in a school, your ears perk up, your hair stands up on the back of your neck, and so I kind of turned around, and it was like a party scene
in a movie when all the music stops and it goes -- and everyone turns and looks.
(CROSSTALK)
REID: And, so, we kind of looked at that one student and I walked over and I said, "You know, we are going to need to grab your stuff and let us take
a step outside." And he refused. And, I said, you know, you are making this way worse than it needs to be. Just, you know, let us go outside.
All I want to do is have a conversation with you.
PINSKY: But, let us be fair to trace back the genesis of all that, the parents.
ODUOLOWU: Yeah.
PINSKY: Again. Parents.
BLOOM: Well, and I feel a culture where every T.V. show and every movie where there`s a problem, I am going to get a gun and go after that guy.
PINSKY: Yeah.
BLOOM: So, where`s the kid hear it?
REID: Right.
BLOOM: You know, that`s his -- I am going to get a gun and come -- you know, and maybe he really meant it, maybe he did not.
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: Yes, but the subterfuge of the parents, not wanting their kid to be stigmatized. I need parents to start seeing their kids for who their
kids really are.
PINSKY: Segun, you are so onto it, because that really is the core issue of everything we`re talking about. We were trying to know, what is wrong
with these kids today? The wrong with the kids today is the parents.
ODUOLOWU: Absolutely.
PINSKY: I am not even talking about the destroyed families and the abuse. And, the sort of egregious circumstances in families. The fact that our own
narcissism, our narcissism, is such that we can`t stand to see our kids stigmatized because that stigmatizes us.
It`s not stigmatizing the kid, it`s getting that child what he or she needs given who they really are. We can`t even let our kids be who they really
are. Erin, you are nodding your head.
REID: No -- yes. I can`t agree with it more. I mean we -- this student - - this wasn`t the first time he had an outburst. This was not the first time he had an outburst at our school.
PINSKY: I feel sorry for that kid.
REID: And, he doesn`t have the...
PINSKY: I feel sorry, but you -- but if feel sorry for that child.
REID: He does not have the intellectual capacity and does not have the tools to know how to deal with his own anger, his own rage. There is no
support for him at home, because the parents were in denial and no support for him at school because we are underfunded.
PINSKY: It is awful. There it is. I mean that is where the rubber hits the road. That`s an exceptional example of it. But, it happens on -- we`re
talking about micro aggressions, it happens on a microscopic level with most parents today, because it is our narcissism.
BLOOM: Can I just say something about what I like about what Erin said.
PINSKY: Please.
BLOOM: You know, Erin, you can tell is a real teacher who cares about her kids. Because when she tells the story, she tells the story about a full
human being and what his background is, and who this kid is and where this comes from. It`s not just these kids, or a kid made a threat, let us throw
them in the trash.
REID: This 15-year-old kid is now facing three felonies. Right? So, it should not come...
PINSKY: AnneElise.
GOETZ: That is the problem. We look at it with the fight with the principal. Those three kids are facing criminal charges. And, what we
have is a society now where the legal system is creating the boundaries for kids. And, that`s not where it should come into play. That should be the
last resort.
PINSKY: I agree, get rid of lawyers.
So, listen, I think we`re kind of -- we finally got to a good place with this. And, we`re kind of zeroing in on it, that it shouldn`t be school to
legal system.
REID: Right.
PINSKY: It should be back at the home. We all got to look at ourselves and the community. And, be more -- listen, this child could thrive. Just
because he has limitations in certain areas doesn`t mean he`s defective. You`ve to feel as though somehow he is stigmatized. He needs special
needs, and, they will be provided for him. Don`t take him out of that. If he gets that, he can thrive in a different way than what you need him to
do. It`s who he is and what he needs to thrive.
Next up, more mayhem in the classroom and on school buses. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Tonight ,we are talking about violence in our schools. Now, we know about many of those episodes because they were recorded. Everyone got
a camera and phone in their hand, now, AnneElise, you got have one of the recordings.
GOETZ: Right. I`ve got a video from a middle school science teacher in Connecticut. And, he was actually fired for the way that he responded to a
cussing student in his class, who refused to move. Let us watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOETZ: The teacher yanks the chair out from the student, causing him to fall to the ground. Claims that he had seen other teachers use this, and I
quote, "Technique," removing the chair to get a seated student to stand. The teacher is currently fired and being investigated by the police and
could face criminal charges.
PINSKY: What would the charges be?
GOETZ: Criminal -- assault. Battery. Listen to how he explains the situation to NBC Connecticut.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I never meant for that to happen. Never! I looked at him and I looked at the chair. Now, I know you aren`t supposed to touch a
student, OK? That`s -- you don`t do that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Are you sorry for what happened?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE TEACHER: Absolutely. Absolutely. I feel bad. I feel really bad about everything that has happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOETZ: He feels bad that he was caught. Let`s be honest, because you talks about it like this was a technique that he has seen other teachers
used, no teacher, is using a technique of yanking a chair out from another student and he got caught. That`s were really the bottom line is and he
said that he got caught.
PINSKY: I`m sad when our teachers do the things that we can no longer support.
(CROSSTALK)
GOETZ: And you support that?
ODUOLOWU: He is a professional liar.
PINSKY: I`m just saying, you`re a teacher, you could see it a little more clearly.
ODUOLOWU: Well, no, I would that, that`s a professional liar. When you said, I never intended for it to happen and your other defense was, I`ve
seen other teachers do it, you knew, come on.
PINSKY: OK.
GOETZ: It`s exactly what you thought was going to happen.
GOETZ: Come on, you knew what you were doing.
GOETZ: The technique.
PINSKY: Rolonda?
WATTS: All right, and not only are that some classrooms running amuck. At some school buses, too. Take a look at that and see if you think this is
fair.
Trouble hits the road in the school bus down in Florida. The driver pulls over, calls for backup when the fight breaks out. But when the officers
arrived, they are reportedly attacked by two sisters. They weren`t even involved in the fight that they came in. The officers say they were
attacked but the girl`s mother claims that one of the sisters...
PINSKY: Well there is.
WATTS: ... is defending the other one.
PINSKY: Wow.
WATTS: Then there they are. So she claims or one of the daughters...
PINSKY: The mom.
WATTS: ... told the mom that she was just trying to remove the arm from around her sister`s neck because the officer had her pinned that she
couldn`t breathe. And the parents are saying, "Hey, look, my kids were just defending themselves, they were defending their sisters ".
PINSKY: As Officer Cheryl has taught me, you lay hands on an officer, bad things are going to happen.
WATTS: Bad things are going to happen, like they`re facing felony charges, both of them.
PINSKY: Oh my goodness. Segun, what do you got?
ODUOLOWU: Well, I mean, fighting security guards and cops must be in vogue for students now. I have an 18-year-old, who beat up a security guard.
OK? The guard found the student roaming the hall after lunch and told him to get to class. A verbal fight ensued. Now, that looks like a grown man,
it doesn`t look like a student. But, anyway...
PINSKY: That is the thing. Some of these guys are, come on.
ODUOLOWU: Now, he allegedly punched the guard in the face seven to eight times. The teen was charged with aggravate assault and harassment.
PINSKY: That`s the teen throwing the guard down?
ODUOLOWU: Yes.
PINSKY: Ooh!
ODUOLOWU: Come on, are you kidding me!
WATTS: Look at that. And, come on for some more.
ODUOLWOU: Now, the judge let the teen go on his own recognizance. And, that`s not even the worst part. The student who filmed the fight didn`t
jump in and help. They just posted it to Facebook.
PINSKY: Look at this. He keeps going.
GOETZ: Listen. I`m not going to jump in on that fight, though.
PINSKY: Thank God that woman stepped in. It looks like this is...
GOETZ: That lady just walked right by like it was no big deal, though.
PINSKY: But, then she walked right in calmly, though. She did walk in. This is the kind of thing we are looking for, is more people to just assert
themselves, calm everybody down. Don`t worry so much about what`s being recorded.
ODUOLOWU: That 18-year-old young man slamming a grown man to the ground, who supposed to secure the school. Like that is not a say -- that`s not
good thing to see. It`s not a good place to be.
PINSKY: No. Next up, a student appears to be roughed up by campus security, because she was smoking in a smoke-free zone. We`ll look at that
after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) PINSKY: A college student arrested for trespassing her philosophy class. She had been followed by campus police, who told her not to smoke during a
break outside the classroom. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Comply with our command. Stop resisting! Stand up. Stand up. Stand up.
JACLYN PAZERA, STUDENT: I will.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stand up.
PAZERA: I will.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE OFFICER: Stop resisting. Stop resisting.
PAZERA: I`m not resisting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE OFFICER: Stop resisting.
PAZERA: Get off me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE OFFICER: Stop resisting.
PAZERA: Get off me, you guys are hurting me. Please get off me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Now, charges against the student have been dropped, but she filed a lawsuit against the school. AnneElise, it`s so crazy when you look at
these things, they seem to have gone so far when somebody is being taken down like that. But, correct me if I am wrong. If an officer says to
stand up and you don`t, is not that resisting an officer right then, boom, at that moment?
GOETZ: Right then. Right then.
PINSKY: Right then. Now, most officers will not resort to physical restraint at that point, will they?
GOETZ: They won`t. Well, that`s a legitimate police business. You stand up so they can conduct a search of you to see if you have anything on you.
PINSKY: For everybody?
GOETZ: For everyone.
PINSKY: As soon as they say, stand up, stand up.
GOETZ: Stand up.
PINSKY: OK. Segun, no?
ODUOLOWU: Well...
GOETZ: Well, yes. No, no.
ODUOLOWU: I just no. No.
GOETZ: Don`t say no.
ODUOLOWU: No. I`m not saying Listen. Listen. If a cop tells me to stand up, I`m standing up.
GOETZ: OK.
WATTS: Stand up.
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: That`s how my people typically wind up getting shot. But my problem is these kids that have invested themselves into a celebrity
culture, where I want to be famous even if it is for infamy or if it is wrong.
PINSKY: Yeah.
ODUOLOWU: I`m not talented, but I can get clicks. I can go viral.
PINSKY: Yes.
ODUOLOWU: And, now, she is doing a lawsuit. She was wrong. She was in the wrong. And, they asked her to stop smoking and she is like, "No,
you`re not going to tell me what to do. I`m a star, I don`t do anything, but I am a star." And now she wants her 15 minutes of fame, and it`s
gross. I mean, these kids...
WATTS: I think where you can really be a star today is when you exhibit leadership in the middle of the chaos. Who will the young people be who is
going to come up.
ODUOLWOU: That is not sexy, Rolonda.
WATTS: I know it`s not sexy and I am Pollyanna, but if my school was in trouble, I would be a student who would stand up and say, "You all, we have
got to respect each other, we just got to do it."
ODUOLOWU: Come on.
WATTS: Seriously.
PINSKY: For the first time we are seeing fame as an autonomous motivator. Not I want to make money, I want to have a family, I want have a career. I
want to be famous, separate. It`s internationally measurable now. And, it`s the first time in social media is amplifying and infecting that
problem.
Reminder, we are on Snap Chat. With that, so, join us on social media, DrDrewHLN. Then you can also DVR us. You can watch us any time.
Thank you all for watching. We will see you next time.
END
