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Dr. Drew

Special: A Live Look At Race In America. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired December 30, 2015 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DREW PINSKY, "DR. DREW SPECIAL REPORT" HOST: OK. Tonight, we`re going to get into something we seem to be debating all the time on this show and

that is race in America. Triggered often times by white police officers seemingly versus Black citizens, who can use the N word for instance? And

why do discussions involving race make us divided? Why are they so uncomfortable? And are we getting anywhere or we`re just going nowhere?

So let`s get started.

Welcome to our one-hour special, a live look at race in America. All of our panelists and audience members are black and free to express

themselves. Let`s begin with some incidents which have been caught on video sparking some of the most heated debates. First was in Alabama, a

man stopped by police for seemingly doing no more than jogging while Black. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OFFICER: Where are you going to?

COREY: Nowhere in particular.

OFFICER: You got some I.D. on you?

COREY: I do, but...

OFFICER: What`s your name?

COREY: Corey. Yeah. Well, looks like I`m about to get harassed.

OFFICER: Stand right here.

OFFICER: Yeah.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Harassment or proper policing?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jogging while black doesn`t give rise to reasonable suspicion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The officers exercised incredible restraint.

(INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shocking video of police restraining a bikini clad teen hits YouTube, generating outrage.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why are you dragging her?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A homeless man with a prosthetic leg pinned to the ground by a group of cops, excessive or appropriate?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is -- this is excessive force. This is white supremacy in action.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ve been around white supremacists. They don`t look like that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Joining us, Vanessa Barnett, hiphollywood.com, Crystal Wright, conservative commentator, conservativeblackchick.com, Segun Oduolowu,

entertainment journalist, Rolonda Watts, host of the podcast "Sundays with Rolonda", and Cheryl Dorsey, sergeant LAPD, retired, author of "The

Creation of a Manifesto, Black &Blue."

Vanessa, first of all, straighten me out here. It seemed like for years I was being schooled carefully to say African-American. Now it`s gone back

to Black. I`m fine with either. Black is OK?

VANESSA BARNETT, HIPHOLLYWOOD.COM HOST: I think it`s a personal preference.

PINKSY: No, don`t get me personal.

(CROSSTALK)

BARNETT: No, it truly is. There are some black people, if you call them African-American, they are insulting.

(CROSSTALK)

BARNETT: But then you have, maybe some folks (ph) who doesn`t want to be called African-American at all and she wants to be known just as Black and

she`s from every continent in Africa and doesn`t know what she wants to be called. So I think it really is personal preference. For me, I`m Black.

You don`t have to get so technical. You`re not stepping on toes if you don`t say African-American.

PINKSY: There`s little murmuring to the audience.

BARNETT: I`m Black, I`m Black, that`s why.

(CROSSTALK)

BARNETT: It`s not a negative word. Black is not a negative word.

PINKSY: Just for me, I need to straighten myself out. You guys got to help here. I got to start with this at least, way to say.

SEGUN ODUOLOWU, ENTERTAINMENT JOURNALIST: Well, I think it`s simple -- I think it`s simple, Dr. Drew. So, my parents are from Nigeria, right? I

grew up most of my life here in -- most of my life here in the United States. I consider myself African-American. I still speak the language.

My relatives, grandparents, everybody is back in Nigeria. So, I don`t have a problem saying I`m African-American. What I would say to all Black

Americans are, you can trace your lineage back further than a lot of White people who came over during L.S. (ph) Island and are immigrants. So why

should you say African-American and separate yourself from a country that you seem to have more ownership from the people that are keeping you from

it?

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Crystal, help me out.

CRYSTAL WRIGHT, CONSERVATIVEBLACKCHICK.COM HOST: I think Segun is right. I think Vanessa is right. He is from -- he`s an African, he`s -- and he is

also an American thus he calls himself African-American.

PINSKY: Yes but...

WRIGHT: I`m a Black American. I`m not from -- I`m not -- I can`t trace my lineage directly to Africa. I don`t have a connection with Africa. I have

a connection to Richmond, Virginia. I have a connection in Washington, DC. I`m Black, my handle says conservative Black chick. People say, "Why do

you call yourself that?" Because I`m all three things, not one thing defines me. Vanessa is right, she likes to be called Black. But why do we

have to debate this and why can`t you say what you`re comfortable with? Oh, because you`re White? Somehow Dr. Drew can`t have an opinion whether

to call me Black or AA? Come on.

PINSKY: Listen, I just want to...

BARNETT: I think he`s right in asking though if he -- if he feels like this is a sensitive topic...

(CROSSTALK)

BARNETT: Absolutely has because...

WRIGHT: Could we ask him if he wants to be called White or Caucasian- American, or Jewish-American?

BARNETT: Because it`s never been a debate.

(CROSSTALK)

BARNETT: Because people have a preference and I think it`s great that she want to ask...

(CROSSTALK)

ODUOLOWU: Preference -- preference aside, preference aside. What I always say, what do you identify to?

BARNETT: Thank you.

ODUOLOWU: So if you don`t identify to some specific African culture, you want to be a Black American, be a Black American. If you grow up in Harlem

to -- Chicago, Jamaican-American, that`s the other thing like if you`re from Haiti, Jamaica, the Bahamas, Dominican Republic and you are Black.

BARNETT: Yes, absolutely.

ODUOLOWU: Are you now African-American? Don`t lump us all into a melting pot.

PINSKY: Vanessa, remember when we were doing the transgender show and you`re trying to get the (inaudible) right there...

BARNETT: Oh Lord.

(OFF-MIC)

QUESTION: Dr. Drew, you don`t have to be the same color to be my brother, and I`m going to tell you that right now. Racism -- racism is an illness,

and a lot of people are just simply sick. Once the world realizes that we are all just simply human beings and then that`s when a lot of things will

get done.

PINSKY: Hold on. I think we had a conversation once -- I think you and I had a conversation once, and we were sort of like -- like why don`t we just

all just kind of chat about this and we`re like, "please."

ROLONDA WATTS, SUNDAYS WITH ROLONDA HOST: You know, I like that you are transparent, you always been that way Dr. Drew and I respect that and

that`s why I`m here to applaud you. But I like that -- I wish more people who are non-colored or non-Black or non-whatever would ask more questions

like, does it insult you that I would ask if you`re Black? I think the word Black has had such a horrific history that we have claimed it as a

beautiful part of our culture and others are afraid because of what we`ve done to that word, what we`ve done to the people of that word. So yes, I

understand my brother that it is difficult to say, should I say that? But please call me Black.

PINSKY: Yeah, I will.

WATTS: Thank you.

PINSKY: Underneath that and I think I`ve heard this from you before, don`t be afraid. And that`s what I like. I`m not afraid.

WATTS: And don`t be afraid of asking questions because we need the dialog.

PINSKY: That`s right, I`m not afraid.

ODUOLOWU: Well, clearly you`re not afraid.

PINSKY: No, I`m not afraid. I`m the lone White guy...

BARNETT: You`re the minority tonight.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: But I find it weird when -- when people are afraid, to me that`s weird. I understand that -- I understand you want to straighten it out,

but why are you afraid? Afraid of Rolonda or afraid of -- afraid of you sir? Am I afraid of you? Should I be afraid of you?

QUESTION: Dr. Drew, it`s simple, President Barack Obama is African- American.

PINSKY: Yeah.

QUESTION: His beautiful wife, our Fist Lady is Black American. Like this brother here, President Obama can trace his family back to Kenya.

PINSKY: Yeah.

QUESTION: Black American is a cultural thing. If your ancestors been through what the hell our people been through, you ain`t like, this brother

ain`t one of us. You know what I`m saying? We`re not -- by culture to you, culturally he`s not one of us.

PINSKY: I know what you are getting.

QUESTION: OK, thank you. Your folks -- Barack Obama`s folks ain`t been what our people wen through. Michelle, that`s a sister.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: That already is clarifying for me. I didn`t get that distinction. I didn`t know that.

WRIGTH: Well, but it is unique.

PINSKY: I get it.

WRIGTH: Being a Black American is different from being what Segun is, which is an African-American because you crossed between two worlds. And I

think the young man just now eloquently talked about -- we forget that Barack Obama is from Kenya and he`s also an American. This is a unique

perspective that he has that`s not -- and he was, you know, that came up sometime during the 2008 election, remember, when members of Congressional

Black Caucus were like, he`s not Black enough and all that. And I think that was divisive and I think that while we can celebrate differences, I do

think when we try to have a discussion about Black culture, it`s bad to kind of start down the slippery slope of Black enough, you`re not down,

you`re not my brother.

PINSKY: That`s not what I heard though. That`s not what I heard.

WRIGHT: No, no. I`m not saying I heard that from the gentleman.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTS: I have friends from Tunisia who tells me, "Ro, I`m more African- American than you." And I say, "You know what, you`re right." So tell me, what does that mean from your point of view?

PINSKY: And?

WATTS: And that is you need to have more of an appreciation in this country for the African culture, period.

ODUOLOWU: I disagree. I disagree Rolonado, respectably I disagree. Like I said, and the gentleman said it perfectly, if my -- if my people haven`t

been through what your people have been through and I`m here, it would be a shame for me to try and glom on or, oh, you know what, we had a really bad

400 years ago. No, we did not. What I would like to say and this goes to all Black people watching and in attendance, be proud of who you are. When

you trace -- when you trace yourself back to Texas, to Alabama, to South Carolina, North Carolina, and what those people overcame so Barack Obama

could be a President, that is amazing. Me being here -- me being here with my passport is great but it`s only because other people died to make that

possible. Be proud of that.

PINSKY: OK, here`s what we`re going to do. This is -- this has been a pretty pleasant conversation so far but I want to get into the weed (ph) to

some of the stuff we tend to talk about here, this is a little more difficult which is, some of the police versus African-American, Black

citizens and just get into that a little bit. Are we seeing a problem there? Or if we want to continue going down this path, I can continue as

well. But, I`m going to show you a violent takedown of a 14-year-old student in class that -- this has been airing on our network and on CNN.

And you`ve all seen this a million times. So, racial factor here or just bad policing? Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The killing of Michael Brown by Ferguson Missouri Police Officer Darren Wilson was the flashpoint for weeks of riots. The

City of Baltimore erupts after the death of Freddie Gray, a black suspect in police custody who died from injuries he got while riding unrestrained

in the back of a police van.

PINSKY: The funeral of Freddie Gray marked the worst day of rioting in Baltimore since the `60s.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is one of our darkest days as a city.

PINSKY: National Guard troops and waves of cops fanning out, brazen standoffs between masked men in both sides, hurling anything they could,

even crude explosives at cops. Police cruisers and neighborhood cars on fire.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

Welcome back to (inaudible) Race in America. Michael Brown, Freddie Gray, these are cases that triggered debates. I`m back with Vanessa, Segun,

Rolonda and our studio audience. Thank you for joining us. The South Carolina school resource officer aggressively grabs a student. We saw it

before the break. Take a look at this now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hands behind your back. Give me your hands. Give me your hands.

Hands behind your back. Give me your hands. Give me your hands.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Cheryl, am I missing something here? Is this bad policing?

DORSEY: Listen, this is over the top. This is outrageous. This was about punishment. This was about, "You didn`t do what I told you to do which is

come here, get up out of that seat so now there`s a price to pay. I`m going to punish you."

PINSKY: It feels like every time we have that conversation where things have gone bad, that has been one of the core sort of feelings we get from

the police officers, whether they`re dealing with a white or black kid, right?

DORSEY: Right. And you know I can take race totally out of the picture. This is an officer who`s drunk with power. This is someone who has been

accustomed to doing this kind of thing. And the Police Department minimizes and mitigates that bad behavior. There`s no consequence for

those kinds of activities. And so, this is not the first time he`s put hands on a student. This is the first time we`re seeing it.

ODUOLOWU: Officer Cheryl, can I do you one better? That`s a man on a little girl.

DORSEY: Absolutely.

ODUOLOWU: So forget...

DORSEY: That is a problem.

ODUOLOWU: ... forget color. That is a grown man. And if you read his bio, he`s a power lifter. He`s is doing that to a young girl. That is

abuse. Forget color for just one second and I don`t like to do that. But he is overturning and dragging a little girl out of a classroom. That`s

horrible.

PINSKY: OK, let me -- I`m going to show Cheryl another piece of policing. And I think you`ll feel sort of the same phenomena. It`s a party at a

neighborhood pool. It had been advertised on social media. It got out of hand, cops called. It was not a good situation. I understand, but a

cellphone video caught this officer taking down a 15-year-old girl in a bikini.

And Crystal, I don`t know if you were in the conversation we had about this one. But, it seemed -- I mean yes, this was a chaotic situation. This guy

had come. We heard stories how this guy come from a terrible situation. That he had just been in a suicide or something, he was helping a family

that was grieving and then he runs into this and he got out of hand.

WRIGHT: Yeah, this was a suburb, McKinney, Texas. Yeah, I forget where it was. But, there`s two sides of the story. When I saw the video, I think

it came out this summer. It was excessive force on this young woman, she wasn`t doing anything. He slams her on the concrete, roughed her up just

like we saw with the young girl in the classroom. But we also know a deejay advertised that there was going to be this huge pool party in a

public pool in a closed subdivision. And other accounts say that the teens -- the black teens were -- and the white teens were getting out of control.

Neighbors asked them to leave the public pool. They didn`t have permission to be there. The deejay said it was like a ray, right? They just -- He

said, "Show up, we`re going to have a party."

All I`m saying is that was wrong, but the problem with these cellphone videos is they happen out of context. OK? So a video is taken, it goes

viral, we don`t know all the circumstances. There gain, I`m not...

PINSKY: OK. Hold on, hold on.

WRIGHT: I think -- yes, we don`t...

PINSKY: Well, let me...

WRIGHT: Just like with Michael Brown and then wait. When we jump to platitudes and we say, "How many videos do you think are out there where

young black -- the white kids are being mistreated by police, but we`re never going to see it. But we say jump to when we say...

PINSKY: There was one yesterday.

WRIGHT: "Oh, so this is all about cops going out hunting down black kids. That is not true. These are isolated incidents...

PINSKY: All right.

WRIGHT: And we can talk about.

WRIGHT: If you really want to get -- you`re really...

PINSKY: OK. Stop arguing.

WRIGHT: When are we going to really talk about crime and race?

PINSKY: Yes Ma`am.

PAULINE BAILEY (ph), AUDIENCE: My name is Pauline Bailey (ph). And first off, I really want to say, you know, I grew up in Illinois. It was like

this nightmare pill. All my life, I`m an African-American, growing up seeing this deep-seated hate against black and white. And I`m like...

PINSKY: Black and white?

BAILEY (ph): Black and white. When you grow up in an African-American, a black family, it`s like, "Oh, you better watch over the white folks, you

better -- when you grow up in a white family, we don`t know what`s going on. Sound like, "Can we get some dialogue going on...

PINSKY: Right.

BAILEY (ph): Share some culture...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.

BAILEY (ph): ... so that we can get a the real solution.

WRIGHT: Right. But notice there`s no white people in this audience...

BAILEY (ph): But, what I`m saying is this is a deep-seated hate...

WRIGHT: Come on.

BAILEY (ph): ... it`s like the world has taking a nightmare pill. It`s like everything you see it`s black on white crime, white on black crime...

WRIGHT: Because we`re not talking to each other.

BAILEY (ph): And what I`m saying is we need to get to the solution, you know, because if I get cut and if another person is Caucasian gets cut,

guess what? It`s blood.

PINSKY: Yeah. I get you.

BAILEY (ph): It`s blood. We bleed the same. So we need some healing because...

(CROSSTALK).

WRIGHT: This is a one-sided racial discussion. It really bothers me.

ODUOLOWU: I don`t think it is.

WRIGHT: Yes, it is. It is one sided.

ODUOLOWU: Because, again -- because when if I can`t win. What we`re going to do?

WRIGHT: Are we talking about race in America. We only -- like that young woman just said, didn`t you just get up and tell me that when you grew up

in Illinois, the problem was you had -- you`re building -- you`re running off of stereotypes because white and black people don`t sit down and have

honest discussion...

(CROSSTALK)

BARNETT: ... so often our voice aren`t even heard and the media is so inundated, just one solitary white voice that is speaking for all of is...

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Listen. The idea was, we can do it again. Let`s just -- that was one of the options. It get to...

WRIGHT: I get it...

(CROSSTALK)

ODUOLOWU: But I think what we`re missing, I think what everybody is missing is, what we`re doing is asking questions.

PINSKY: Yeah.

ODUOLOWU: And we`re asking questions and we`re all trying to find a solution. Again, take race out of that incident in Texas. It`s a man on a

girl. So, if you`re talking about -- if you`re talking about deep-rooted fear between blacks and whites, that`s a man on a girl. Now, what we

should be talking about is why he felt that was okay to do to a black girl. Because, you want to talk about cellphone videos? I`m all for white kids

taking videos of white cops beating up white kids and doing white lives matter.

WRIGHT: Why are you yelling?

ODUOLOWU: This isn`t me yelling.

(CROSSTALK)

This is passion.

PINSKY: Sergeant Dorsey?

DORSEY: I`ll tell you why he felt comfortable doing that. Because here`s the problem, there`s no accountability. When there`s consequence for that

circumstance, understand that this Officer Eric Casebolt had been on three police departments before McKinney. He was a Texas State trooper, he was

an Oklahoma City police officer before he came to McKinney. When police officers move from division, department to department like NBA players

change teams, it`s because there`s a problem.

WATTS: Here`s the other concern...

PINSKY: Hold on, wait, wait, wait. I got to go to break. I want you to help me. Help me make sense of this.

WATTS: Here`s one of the concerns I think that many people have. When we look at that picture as the black community, we see our daughter, we see

our nieces, we see our mothers. We are not quite sure what that man saw when he looked at that little girl but I don`t think he saw this daughter

and his niece. So it makes us think we looked at different as citizens and as human beings.

PINSKY: OK.

WATTS: And based upon the evidence that keeps surmounting, I think that`s a logical conclusion.

PINSKY: That makes me sad. Because, I see your daughters and nieces too and...

WATTS: But you`re a different man, you`re not dragging me by the hair across the road. You`re sitting there having a decent, humane conversation

with me, and what we discover everyday, is that we`re more alike than we are not alike.

PINSKY: OK, I have to go to break. OK, I`ve got a whole other topic coming up here.

Just real quick, real quick. So I`m switching topics.

QUESTION: America is addicted to these videos. They want to see these videos over and over again, as mush as you say, you don`t want to see these

videos. We`re not being objective about the situation. A New York City police officer was shot and killed and we`re watching this security video

of this guy over and over do this over and over again on a reel. That police officer is somebody`s son, somebody`s, you know, husband. And, he

was doing what he was supposed to do as an officer.

WRIGHT: Cops, you know, cops lives don`t matter...

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: No, no, wait, I got to go to break. However, if you give me the camera here for a second, the point is well taken. And I can imagine how

other people in the country looking at us, looking at these tapes over and over, think about us. I mean try to put that hat on for a second too.

We`re within it, we got trouble. Somebody looking at us from the outside would think, what`s wrong with that country?

Next up, we`re going to confront the "N" world. I want to get into it. The President of the United State used it, Don Lemon use it. He will join

us after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Does this offend you? It`s a confederate flag. Is it a symbol of pride or it`s a symbol of hate?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Critics say, the President using the N word in his interview, it gives the word even more power.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If it were a powerless word, we wouldn`t be having this conversation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The N word, white people do not have permission to say it or have a discussion about it.

Can I say (bleep) on the air? I just did. OK, I`ll probably get in trouble for it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is the word that is used to dehumanize my father, my grandfather, my grandmother. So, we were told never to use that

word.

LEMON: Does this offend you, this word? President Obama said it out loud in an interview and a lot of people are shocked.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Indeed, the President and Don Lemon right there were comfortable using the word, but I`m not going to be using it unless you convince me

otherwise.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are not going to convince you to use that word, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: That`s fine. Other people are entitled to use it as they wish, but let`s not be gratuitous about this. This is a word packed with

emotion, no matter how you cut it, Crystal, right? I know you had a reaction when you said it on this show.

WRIGHT: You`re right.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: ... discuss it`s impact, back with Vanessa, Crystal, Segun and Rolonda. And joining me CNN Anchor Don Lemon, host of CNN Tonight, and

Don, you took some heat for holding up the N word and saying it. And, you know, let me ask this. Did you learn anything from that experience, and is

it ever acceptable to use this word?

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Yes, it`s acceptable to use the word. Personally I hate the word. I don`t like using the word. I think we have bastardized

the word in a way that we shouldn`t have. I think that word has so much impact. It was the last word so many people heard.

But if the president of the United States says the word, them I think as a journalist I should be able to say it as well, because if he didn`t say it,

then we wouldn`t be covering the story.

So if the president says it in an interview, then why can`t we show the word? The news is not -- this is not "Sesame Street." This is not people

talking to their kids and said, "This is what you (inaudible). This is where you conclude. This is where" -- that word has a huge impact, and if

you use it, you should realize the impact of that word. Did I learn anything?

Yeah, I learned that people are sometimes overly sensitive and they have double standards. Many people have double standards about using the

word...

PINSKY: what`s the double standards?

LEMON: ... Because I did the same exact thing, Dr. Drew, two years before when I did the "N-word Special", I held that word up and help many other

derogative terms up on cue cards, nobody said a word. As a matter of fact, I got commended for doing it.

PINKY: I want to get something from the audience. Yes, ma`am. Go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I, honestly, have to say that the word and the meaning has changed. When I group up as a child, the word in the dictionary meant

ignorant. It reference ignorant over time. Websters has changed the meaning based on it is used in society. And it`s been used towards

African-American, black, and that`s how it`s used.

Whites, blacks, I`ve heard everybody or every nationality use the word. The word has no power if you don`t allow it to have the power. And we

allow it to have a power as a people. And so therefore, it holds a power over us. You can use the word toward me, but I know I`m not ignorant and I

know I`m not the definition of that word. So I don`t allow it to be and hold me down.

PINKY: Let`s -- we talk about that with the president, you guys -- can we play the recording of the president? OK. I`m going give -- I`m just going

to play the recording what the President Obama said to my friend Marc Maron on his podcast. And he took a lot of heat for this. But let`s just hear

what he said. Let`s get all this up and keep the conversation going. Go ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARC MARON, PODCAST HOST: Racism.

PRES. BARACK OBAMA, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Racism? We`re not cured of it.

MARON: Clearly.

OBAMA: And it`s not just a matter of it not being polite to say nigger in public. That`s not the measure of whether racism still exists or not.

It`s not just a matter of overt discrimination. Societies don`t overnight completely erase everything that happened 200 to 300 years prior.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINKY: Yes, ma`am?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, let me show that in context, I see why he used the word. But based on what the lady said before, I disagree with it. I

don`t care what the word is being used for now and especially in rap music. So now you`re taking it so another generation is going to keep using the

word and, "Oh, it`s cool, we`re using it". No, it`s not.

You`re telling your friend off and you don`t even realize it. I moves here from New York. So I`m on the bus and I`m listening to people who came here

on plane. They`re not black but calling everybody in the back of the bus the word.

And I literally had to stop myself from snatching this little boy up, because he didn`t even know the value of the word. He`s family wasn`t

(inaudible) to go to a civil right struggle but he is using that word and taking ownership of it.

PINKY: I got it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And it was like, you know...

LEMON: I hear it all the time in public here. I hear it all the time in public. I hear it on the subway, I hear on buses. I hear it everywhere,

Dr. Drew. That was part of the reason that I want -- the first time we did this, the "N-word Special". I hear people calling their kids that on

the streets here in New York City.

WRIGHT: Right. And Don is right. I`m sorry, Don. But, you know, I remember when you talked about this and you talked about moving to Harlem.

And I think you talked about seeing a black woman talk to her kid and say, "hey, you little nigger", right?

And I`ve seen it like the young lady talk about.

LEMON: "Stop that damn crying, you act like an old ass man". And she called him the N-word. I was like -- I was shocked, the little boy was in

fear. And I`m like walking down the street.

WRIGHT: And that`s how we -- predominately when I`ve seen the N-word used by -- it`s been predominantly, overwhelmingly by blacks to other blacks,

either in rap music, young black women and men calling their children little animals.

Let me tell you a story. When I was in grade school, I came home, I looked at my little brother and I said you little "n." My mom pulled me aside.

She said I didn`t learn it. I didn`t learn it from the white kids on the playground. L learn it from the black kids. She told me, "Don`t you ever

call your little brother that, that is the worst word in life you could ever call your little brother."

And she explained it to me. I don`t remember it, you know, told me about it but isn`t it interesting that like Don said, you know, its OK for black

people to use the word. It`s prolific in rap music.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, it`s not OK.

WRIGHT: Yes, it is.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And nobody can assure...

(CROSSTALK)

WRIGHT: But yet when we talk about it, we can`t ever -- why can`t Dr. Drew talk about it in this context?

PINKY: My question to Don is, that do you think that it`s so interesting to me, because not being black, not being immersed in the culture, the fact

that parents would use that to little kids to me is...

LEMON: Ignorant.

(Crosstalk)

LEMOM: It`s outrageous.

PINKY: It`s outrageous but it`s curious and makes me wonder, you know, we do a lot of talking about trauma being transmitted from one generation to

the next. Is that word one of the vehicles of the transmission of the trauma of the past?

LEMON: Yes. Oh, my gosh, Dr. Drew, you are so smart. I forgot the author, but she calls it post-traumatic slave disorder that I find. We

have this conversation but I forgot the author is.

But I find that, you know, listen, I grew up in the south in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. I remember the first time I was called the N-word, it was by a

white person as a little kid. I remember also happening in high school, maybe in college.

I have not been called that word by a white person in decades. But I`ve been called that word and plenty worse things by people of my own race just

today.

(CROSSTALK)

BARNETT: I would be very honest. I`ve said it to friends. I`ve said it a colloquial term.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s not always positive, is usually not positive, what does it mean?

(CROSSTALK)

BARNETT: When someone says it to Don very often, and they are saying it angry way. They are saying that literal definition of the N-word, Don,

they believe you are ignorant and X, Y and Z.

(CROSSTALK)

WRIGHT: And you say it to your friends and want your daughters to grow up talking like that?

BARNETT: And then, my course -- no, opinion, I will never say it to my daughter and I don`t dare my daughter just like other curse words and

things of that nature. If she chooses to say it in the future for whatever reason, that is -- I would never say it to my child but I am not going to

this stage and lie. And that`s holder that that.

I said it to friends and I don`t mean it in a negative way, just as I will call my home girl for a beer or whatever like that, they`ve seen it that

way.

And to go back to your other point, there shouldn`t be a white person on the planet who wants to say it. Why do they want to say it?

(CROSSTALK)

PINKY: Again, I better step up...

(CROSSTALK)

PINKY: Obviously, we expect this heated conversation. I`m glad to get conversation but I have to go to commercial break. So, Don, hang in there,

buddy. I`ll going to be right back with you. We`re going to talk about this word. I want the audience for a backup, as soon as I get back.

We`re going to talk about this word that we`re beginning to focus in on as the vehicle, this word is the vehicle of so much transmission of trauma and

awfulness, disgusting -- well, it`s a word help me describe that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ignorance.

PINKY: No, it`s worse. It`s transmitting something sick from generation to generation and we`re allowing it to. Back after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: We should not sanitize that word by saying, "This person calls people such and such the N-word. Know that person didn`t call that person

the N-word, that calls, Sunny, I know you`re going to upset, that person called you or that person a nigger. They didn`t the N-word.

SUNNY HOSTIN, JOURNALIST: I can believe, Don, that you as an African- American man are going to use that word just so frequently.

LEMON: Of course, because we are using...

HOSTIN: Words matter and you should know that.

LEMON: I wish people would not call each other...

HOSTIN: But you`re uttering it yourself.

LEMON: But I`m not calling someone the word. I`m a journalist, I`m supposed to use it. We`re not supposed to sanitize it.

HOSTIN: I mean, are you kidding me? Oh my goodness. Wow. Wow.

LEMON: You`re sanitizing it by using that -- by saying that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINKY: We`re back, we`re discussing race in America, discussing the use of the N-word. I`m back with Vanessa, Crystal, Segun, Done Lemon, Rolonda.

And, Don, I love me Ms. Sunny Hostin.

LEMON: We are like sister and brother, Dr. Drew. We fight like sister and brother. What people don`t realize is that, after we`re on T.V. and we did

that, either I go in the studio she`s in or she comes in the studio that I`m in and we discuss it, she goes, "Oh my Gosh. That is going to blow up,

whatever." But wait, I mean, we actually do, we go back and forth but just because Sunny and I disagree, it doesn`t mean we don`t like each other.

PINKY: Right. Not only that...

LEMON: We love each other. We just disagree on those issues.

PINKY: Right. And it`s this whole phenomenon that we`re all afraid and walking on egg shells and that`s where that`s got to stop, right? I mean,

don`t you think that -- and as you were trying to say to Sunny which is, "I`m not empowering the word. I`m using it as a journalist". (Inaudible)

will do that, they you are empowering the word, right?

LEMON: Yeah. I want people to make up their minds about using this word. Because when I said that I don`t like to use the word, they call me all

kinds of names that you don`t want to hear because I`m telling black people what to do.

Then when I use the word, then they call me all kinds of names because I`m using the word. So I`m like, "Well, I don`t know which one I`m supposed to

do".

PINKY: Well, you should know, Don, I started this show by saying I`ve got to get straight on stuff. I feel you. I have lot of stuff, but the point

is not to shrink or not be afraid of it.

WATTS: But I`m with Don Lemon, and you know I love me some Don, you know. But...

LEMON: And I love me some Rolonda. You look good, girl.

WATTS: Thank you, baby. Talk to you after the show.

LEMON: I was walking in the office and I was like, "Look at Rolonda, my God."

WATTS: Don, now you`re making me blush. But, listen, even being a journalist for 35 years, Don, you and I are going to disagree on this one

too. I cannot use the word. I remember growing up in South Carolina in the segregated south of the `60s. And the only time I was ever able to fight

as a little girl.

My mother and father told me, if anybody ever called you the N-word, you ball up your fist and beat the crap out of them. They didn`t say it that

way, but either that way (inaudible) the passing on of their trauma.

ODUOLOWU: But, Rolonda, you know, it`s very rarely that I agree with Don, but I think that`s a little stilted argument. And I agree with Don 100

percent here. As a journalist, it`s appropriate to use the word if you`re quoted it accurately.

But you said if somebody called you that growing up as a little girl, that gave you the right to fight. But I`m sure you have been around black

people that used the word and you haven`t balled your fists up.

WATTS: No, but it would wouldn`t be using -- no, but listen. I`m going to be totally transparent here.

LEMON: But sometime, Rolonda, sometimes it is.

ODUOLOWU: Come on, let`s be honest.

(Crosstalk)

LEMON: When you call people -- when you call people the N-word, when we use that word the N-word I don`t always say that word out loud.

(Inaudible) to the N-word, we call people Uncle Tom, we call people coon. That all have that -- that has the same meaning, it`s the same negative

connotations.

WATTS: Right.

ODUOLOWU: Right.

LEMON: And I can`t believe we do that to each other. When someone calls me the N-word or calls me Uncle Tom or calls me -- I go, "Is that all

you`ve really have? Is that how weak and how ignorant your argument is, that`s have to resort to calling names? It`s like a white person calling

me the N-word, you just laughing though. OK that`s all you`ve got then you`re just ignorant and stupid."

PINKY: OK. I`ve got to get some audience here. Yes, ma`am, we hear a lot of your saying, be transparent. I want to hear what that is. But, yes,

you first.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I come from a mixed background. My dad is from Panama, my stepmom is Lebanese and Caucasian. And they`ve always told me,

if anybody calls you the N-word, you have the right to fight. You have a right to actually standup for yourself because that`s not right for them to

call you that word.

In the same respect, currently, I live with a white girl and her boyfriend, who is black. And on occasion, she`ll call him the N-word endearingly.

LEMON: So confusing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Exactly. And I`ll hear then I`ll be like the kitchen or the bathroom, and just go, "Whoa, what, why are they having this

conversation?" I have talked to both of them about it, equally. He says he doesn`t care and she`s just like, "Oh, I just mean it endearingly." I`m

like, "The minute you call me in N-word, we`re going to be in a fight".

ODUOLOWU: Sister, you need to move and move now, Rolonda, move, move to a new apartment.

PINKY: I think that what I`ve learned that at a time and Don, if I don`t have a chance to say goodbye to you, I want to thank you so much for being

part of this and really being at the core of this conversation about the word and the meaning.

And I think, for me, I learned about this intergenerational transmission of trauma through language, which I wasn`t sure was possible. And tonight, I`m

convinced that it is. And that`s -- I`m coming away thinking, oh no, this word, we need to stop this word. It`s not something we...

LEMON: Can I do a shameless plug, Dr. Drew?

PINKY: Go ahead. Go ahead.

LEMON: Because, you know, I have you on to talk about this as well, so make sure you tuned in to CNN Tonight on CNN at 10:00 p.m. Eastern, and we

have these conversations all the time. We`ll be talking about the student down in South Carolina and we have race discussions all the time, very

openly.

PINKY: Absolutely, as we do here too on this show. And that`s why I wanted to put this together tonight.

But anyway, thank you, Don. I really appreciate you`re being here. You`re a key player in tonight. But I just go to break, I get your comment just

second.

PINKY: Thank you, Don. We`ll see you in a second, after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAY-Z, RAPPER: People give words power. And for our generation, what we did is we took the word and we took the power out of that word. You know,

we turned a word that was very ugly and hurtful into a term of endearment.

OPRAH WINFREY, TALK SHOW HOST: There was a generation before me that fought for civil rights, and that word carries such a sense of hatred and

degradation. And I always think about when I hear the word, even when I`m at the concert and people are screaming it at your concert. I think about

black men who were lynched and that`s the last word they heard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINKY: That was Jay-Z and Oprah describing or conflicting around this word in 2009. I`m back with my guests. Rolonda, you want to make a comment?

WATTS: I was just going to say that coming up in my own experience, at a time when you couldn`t imagine a white kid saying that unless they were

just some redneck someplace, and how we took that word.

I must admit, it was a word I said among my black friends. It was a way of endearment. You know, you my -- if you don`t get no bigger. You knowm I

was all that -- you know what I`m saying?

It was like, it was that love thing. That`s the way we loved up on each other. And then as I have grown myself, I`ve had to stop that myself. I

have my black friends who say don`t say that word anymore to me. My girlfriends say don`t call me a "b" anymore.

Because we have to say, "You know, it`s not what you`re called, it`s what you answer to." And a lot of people are saying, "I don`t want that in my

life anymore. It`s too difficult."

So we have even learned to stop the endearment of the phrase, but we did like that phrase and we loved up on it because it hated us so much.

BARNETT: And I`m still in that area. I haven`t grown there yet, maybe I will, maybe I won`t. And I`m telling you, I said it to you before, for me

it is intent, I`m still there. It says my girlfriend says it to me, I`m not going to stop that, "Oh, girl, no you didn`t just call me that", I`m

not there yet. And I think if a lot people are in this audience that they`re 100 honest that they still maybe in the stage so. And that`s OK.

We`re not there, if we`re not on the Rolonda road yet, maybe I will, maybe I won`t. But to tell me that I should feel some sort of trauma with this

word when I don`t.

PINKY: I want to hear Crystal.

WRIGHT: OK. I think when it comes to the N-word blacks have no credibility on who can say it and who can`t when we use it with impunity to

one another. We just heard Rolonda and Vanessa talked about, "How I use"-- you know, I`ve used it as a form of endearment. It`s not endearing. It`s

not endearing when Jay-Z puts it in his lyrics to rap.

And we are standing on quicksand. We have no credibility as black people when we use it daily. It`s part of our culture. And I agree with Segun.

You know, If a black -- if you can say it to your girlfriend, if people can say, "Hey, my N, how are you doing, my N?" Dr. Drew should be able to say

it.

(CROSSTALK)

WRIGHT: OK, I didn`t talk over you. I didn`t talk over you. So what I am saying is, we have no credibility on this subject.

PINKY: If you guys don`t listen to me, I can`t run a show. I`m sorry, I just can`t do it. So go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The fact to the matter is, whenever we say goes, because black people are builders of culture. Our culture permeates the

world. So whatever we say is OK, it`s what the world is going to follows. So if our music embraces the term, other cultures are going to use it and

run with it because we say it`s OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t say it`s OK.

(CROSSTALK)

ODUOLOWU: And that, Dr. Drew, that`s the fundamental basis. If want us, if black people want to say it`s OK to say, then the white person saying it

to you shouldn`t stiffen your back up and you get mad. So it`s got to change.

BARNETT: I think black people are mad when white people tell them that they can`t say it.

PINKY: I have to go to commercial break, I`m sorry guys. I can`t let us talk endlessly. We have to take a break, be right back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINKY: The unfortunate thing about this program is that it`s a television show. So I have to cut people off, I have to go to commercial. We have

all kinds of great conversation going on here, and we will keep this going. We will do this again. There will be more than a part two, I suspect.

I will Crystal lead and I will bring some other -- we`ll integrate this a little bit next time. There will be even harder for me to control, but I`m

ready to do that now.

I want to thank you for the privilege of allowing me to do this. I want to thank each of you personally, thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Great job, Dr. Drew.

PINKY: Thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

PINKY: I want to thank Rolonda. Thank you very, very much. Thank you, audience. Thank you, guys, for being here.

Again, I think it`s been a very important conversation. It`s something that -- yeah, you guys are great. Thank you for standing up. One of my

skeptics with signing, if he was sitting before the show, right, we`ll see how this goes, so I think you did a pretty good jobs. I`ll see you next

time.

END