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Dr. Drew
The Netflix Series, "Making A Murderer" Has Everyone Talking As Many Are Now Demanding Actions, Some Even Calling For The President To Take Action; Donald Trump Starts 2016 Where He Left Off Last Year With Verbal Attacks On Hillary Clinton; Bill Cosby Charged In A Sex Crime Case. Aired 9-10a
Aired January 04, 2016 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:00:13] DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST OF "DR. DREW" PROGRAM: Well, I think many of you are aware that the Netflix series, "Making a Murderer" has
everyone talking, many are now demanding actions, some even calling for the president to take action. You heard Nancy talking about that, her outrage,
take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (voice-over): Steven Avery is in prison serving a life sentence for killing young freelance photographer, Teresa
Halbach. He says he is innocent. Avery also maintained his innocence in 1985 when he was convicted of attempted murder, sexual assault and
kidnapping of a woman who was jogging around Lake Michigan. Eighteen years into a 32-year sentence for those crimes, he was freed by DNA.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: How are you doing?
STEVEN AVERY, CONVICTED OF MURDER, SEXUAL ASSAULT AND KIDNAPPING: Oh, hello.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: How are you?
AVERY: Oh, pretty good.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: How does it feel?
AVERY: Well, wonderful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (voice-over): Some say that the evidence against Avery in the Halbach is flimsy, if not bogus.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AVERY: When you know you are innocent, you will keep on going. The truth always comes out sooner or later.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Joining me, Lisa Bloom, Civil Rights Lawyer at the Bloom Firm and legal analyst for Avvo.com; Areva Martin, Attorney and Legal Commentator;
Kurt Schlichter, Attorney, retired Army Colonel and conservative commentator.
Ildiko Tabori, Clinical Psychologist and finally, Jim Clemente, former FBI profiler -- Oh, I got Janine Driver, our human lie detector, author of "You
Cannot Lie To Me." Janine, welcome back. I am going to go to Lisa first though. You do defense work, right?
LISA BLOOM, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Sure.
PINSKY: In criminal cases?
BLOOM: In criminal defense. Yes.
PINSKY: What percentage of people that are up there on the stand that have committed a crime claim innocence, would you say?
BLOOM: 100 percent.
PINSKY: 100 percent.
BLOOM: It is not more.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: OK. That was my sense of it too. I am no expert. Areva, do you agree with that?
AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY AND LEGAL ANALYST: Absolutely.
PINSKY: Ernie? -- Schlichter, agree?
KURT SCHLICHTER, ATTORNEY AND U.S. ARMY (RET.): Absolutely.
PINSKY: OK. Excellent.
BLOOM: Most of them do not take the stand.
PINSKY: All right. So, when people have this outrage that this poor man is espousing his innocence and we are not listening to him, we have never
been in a courtroom where there is a legal defense panel.
BLOOM: Well, that is true, but he is not just claiming innocence. He actually was innocent of the first crime.
PINSKY: Of the first crime.
BLOOM: OK. DNA shows he was innocent. Eighteen years in prison for a crime he definitely did not commit. The question is, the second one -- the
murder that he is currently incarcerated for, did he do that one? Could he have been twice falsely convicted? I think that is what is so fascinating
about this documentary.
PINSKY: Areva?
MARTIN: Yes.
PINSKY: Twice falsely convicted?
MARTIN: Yes, there are a lot of things about this case that just do not sit well.
PINSKY: Like what?
MARTIN: When you watch the documentary, $36 million lawsuit he filed because of that wrongful conviction in the sexual assault case. So, his
theory is that the cops, who framed him inappropriately for that first case were out to get him because he had filed a lawsuit against them --
PINSKY: Now, to be fair --
MARTIN: They have to testify and may have cost them their jobs and a lot of money.
PINSKY: Now, wait a minute. So, two counties and the FBI and the crime scene experts and the crime lab, they all corroborated in some giant
conspiracy. Schlichter, is that what happened?
SCHLICHTER: Oh, please. I worked for the government for a long time in the military. The government is incapable of putting together a
conspiracy. This kind of devious mass conspiracy to frame this guy. It would involve dozens of people, technicians, agents, officers, deputies,
D.A.s. It is crazy talk.
BLOOM: Really? Would it? I mean, if the police just planted some evidence in his trailer, everyone else could be completely oblivious.
PINSKY: The defense attorneys claimed that they broke into a fire pit, just outside of his house and sprinkled bones all over the place.
BLOOM: Right. Well, that is the theory.
PINSKY: Come on now. Come on now.
BLOOM: And, initially --
PINSKY: Has it ever in --
BLOOM: Yes. Listen, police departments every day are caught bending the rules, violating the rules. There were just a report in California --
PINSKY: That is different than killing somebody and sprinkling their bones in somebody else`s back yard.
BLOOM: No. I do not think anybody is saying that the police murdered her.
PINSKY: Where would the bones --
BLOOM: Somebody else murdered her but they first checked his trailer, they found nothing.
PINSKY: Somebody who is -- like O.J.`s murderer. He is still out there on the loose, killing again.
BLOOM: No, of course not.
PINSKY: No more rapes or deaths since this guy has been put back in prison. Look at this interrogation video regarding the murder of Teresa
Halbach. She was taking pictures of a van in this man`s salvage yard for auto-trader magazine.
And, by the way, there was a bunch of information that Nancy just chronicled in the last show that was not shown in the documentary. It was
not shown in court, where this man was calling her repeatedly and blocking his number and freaking her out.
BLOOM: Yes.
PINSKY: Go ahead, let us look at the tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AVERY: She heard -- She told me that she heard that a cop put it out there and planted evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE INVESTIGATOR: Put what out there?
AVERY: The vehicle.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE INVESTIGATOR: And, that is Teresa`s vehicle?
AVERY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE INVESTIGATOR: So, they told you that somebody told her - -
AVERY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE INVESTIGATOR: -- that a cop put that vehicle - Teresa`s vehicle over -- on your property?
AVERY: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Now, remind viewers that Teresa`s vehicle -- the rear cabin of that vehicle was filled with Teresa`s blood. Filled with it. Go ahead,
Janine, what do you see?
[21:05:00] JANINE DRIVER, HUMAN LIE DETECTOR: You know, this is interesting, I am really on the fence on this one, because I am noticing
lots of hot spots. But, we have to take into consideration, Dr. Drew, that he is uneducated. In a clip just before this one, he is asked -- on
November 9, 2005, Steven is asked with regard to the murder victim, you know, was she in or out of the truck?
And, how Steven responded, he said literally, she was in -- hold on, Avery, responded, "She is in her truck," instead of "She was in her truck." He
said, "She is in her truck," like current tense, which is a hot spot for me with deception. And, then this is what he says next.
"And, then she give me the book, shut the door and walked toward the house." "And, I walked toward the house. I put the book by the computer,
then she give me the book," instead of she gave me the book. So, we have a lot of verbal hot spots. On statement analysis, Dr. Drew, this is almost
three times as powerful as just body language in and of itself.
His body language here is closed off. It is typical. I am not saying hot spot with his body language but with statement analysis, he is going
through the roof with hot spots. But he is not educated, so this is one of those cases I am going to watch the footage again and again and again.
PINSKY: Well -- All right. And, we will go back to you, but we have an expert interrogation. Jim, you were nodding your head when Janine brought
this up. Go ahead.
JIM CLEMENTE, FBI PROFILER (RET.): Yes, she did mention a few things that were evident in that interrogation and the verbiage he uses. But, you have
to norm the guy. The guy uses very poor English the entire time he talks.
All of the transcripts that you will see you will see, you will see those kinds of variations from the norm. So, we have to look at him a little
differently. Although, I think she is right. There are some indicators in there that he is not telling the whole truth.
PINSKY: Now, Ildiko, you are a clinical psychologist. I look at this guy and there is something -- I do not know, again, we are not examining them.
We do not know them. But, it looks something neurological does not feel right with this gentleman.
He got a 70 I.Q. He got an unusual body habit. There might be something going on. But, the thing that bothered me the most. I want to show you
something about his early childhood behavior. Emily, can we get the cat on fire video. Let us look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AVERY: I had a bunch of friends over, who were fooling around with the cat. And, I do not know, they were kind of negative. I tossed him over
the fire and he lit up. You know, it was the cat -- I was young and stupid.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So, Ildiko, amongst his many other run-ins with the law, he, apparently, did not even describe what he actually did. What he apparently
do is he doused the cat in gas and lit it on fire. So, it is violence against animals as a child. That, to me is a terrible prognostic sign.
TABORI: Well, that is typical of people who begin with a sociopathic behavior.
PINSKY: I would dare say, psychopathic behavior, right?
TABORI: Absolutely.
PINSKY: OK. So, psychopath starts with this. So, we have a psychopathic beginning -- and Areva do not sigh at me like that. I mean, this all we
have. We have a guy, who has all sorts of hot spots and lies in his interrogation. Jim, no?
CLEMENTE: The two of the homicidal try are indicators, fire setting and cruelty to animals.
PINSKY: Right in the one case.
CLEMENTE: Yes.
PINSKY: He has had multiple run-ins with the law. He was wrongly convicted of it -- the thing they got wrong was they wrongly convicted him
of something he did not do, because he is so involved with the law, in prison, Areva --
MARTIN: But, his life is going so well. He has gotten out of jail --
PINSKY: In prison?
MARTIN: Well, he has gotten out of jail after --
PINSKY: Six months later he killed somebody.
MARTIN: Well, he has gotten out of prison after 18 years. He has a state representative in that state that is working to change the laws to get him
compensated for all those years that he has been in jail.
PINSKY: Yes, sure.
MARTIN: He has these hotshot civil rights attorneys who are filing this massive litigation, this lawsuit on his behalf. So, finally, he has a new
girlfriend. So, it looks like his life is coming together. So, why would a guy that has been in jail for 18 years risk going back when things seemed
to be going right in his life for the first time?
PINSKY: Psychosis.
MARTIN: It just does not make sense.
SCHLICHTER: Because maybe he is a psychopath.
PINSKY: Maybe he is a psychopath, everybody.
SCHLICHTER: Yes. It is called eustress. It is the same as distress. The opposite of distress, but it is also stress. And, it causes people to act
out in extreme ways. Everything was going great for him. Everything he was -- He was getting money. He had had a new girlfriend. He feels
invulnerable. That is why he acted out.
PINSKY: And, not only that. He was reportedly in jail showing people pictures of the torture he intended to do when he got out, because he got
out because he had such of aggression against women. Lisa, you like to protect women, do not you?
BLOOM: Of course.
PINSKY: Who are you going to protect? Women or this guy?
BLOOM: Listen. Listen.
PINSKY: Come on now. I want to documentary to put this thing together to a certain a point of view without showing the full picture. We will keep
this going. And, later on, Donald Trump starts 2016 where he left off last year with verbal attacks on Hillary Clinton. We will get into that and
more after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PENNY BEERNTSEN, ACCUSED STEVEN AVERYOF VIOLENT SEXUAL ASSAULT: When I kicked him, he said, "Now, you are going to die. Now, I am going to kill
you."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: And, what did he do then?
BEERNTSEN: Then he put his hands on my neck and he started choking me very hard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Were you able to pick out anyone in that live line-up?
BEERNTSEN: Yes, I was.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: And, do you have an opinion as to whether or not the person you picked out in the live line-up is the same as the person
you picked out today?
BEERNTSEN: Yes, it is the same person.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Are you positive of that.
BEERNTSEN: I am absolutely positive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That was from the Netflix series "Making a murderer." Testimony from the woman, Steven Avery was convicted then exonerated of having raped
her. I am back with Lisa, Areva, Kurt, Ildiko, Jim and Janine. Nancy Grace spoke to Steven Avery by phone in 2005 during the time Teresa Halbach
was still nearly missing. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST OF "NANCY GRACE" PROGRAM: Mr. Avery, do you feel like you are being framed in any way?
AVERY: Yes?
GRACE: Why?
AVERY: Because every time I turn around, the county is always doing something to me.
GRACE: In this case, do you think you are being framed?
AVERY: Yes, I am being set up because of my lawsuit and everything else.
GRACE: Because of your previous incarceration you are suing?
AVERY: Yes. They set me up then.
GRACE: Well, do you think it has anything to do with her car being found at your auto shop?
AVERY: No, I think it is because of my name and what I went through from them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Janine, any hot spots there?
DRIVER: You know, because I am retired from law enforcement and I got to tell you, this is the case where he was innocent, right? My concern is in
law enforcement, I know people within the agency I worked for that broke the rules constantly.
I know a supervisor, who is a special agent in charge, who hacked into all his employees` computers to read if they were gossiping about him. So,
anytime they were talking he hacked --
[21:15:04] PINSKY: But, Janine, to be fair, that is different than planting evidence --
DRIVER: But, what I am saying --
PINSKY: Than exonerating bones. Come on now.
DRIVER: There are a lot of good cops out there, but it does not mean cops do not break the rules.
PINSKY: All right.
DRIVER: So, that is why I am just saying like come in with a clear mind here. My concern here, Dr. Drew is if you watch the interviews and I know
you have watched this whole entire series. The interviews with the nephew, he is totally coaxed onto --
PINSKY: Yes.
DRIVER: -- on saying, "Oh, you got shot -- she got shot in the head." "What else happened to her head?" "Ahm, we scratched it. We cut her
head." "What else happened to the head?" That interview is what really sits in my craw. And, that is where I am kind of on the fence, because
that was a terrible interviewing on law enforcement.
PINSKY: Well, and Janine, that is what we want to get into next. So, there was a second defendant in this murder. A nephew who lived in a
trailer next to the Steven Avery`s on this auto -- what they call it? It is an auto --
CLEMENTE: Auto salvage lot.
PINSKY: Auto salvage lot. And, he went in, apparently, and saw -- he reported to his 14-year-old niece that he saw a woman begging for her life,
tied up in his uncle`s house. Maybe he had sex with her. Maybe he got involved in incinerating the body, a little vague and unclear, and that is
where you really had a problem with this investigation?
CLEMENTE: Yes. Absolutely. I mean, actually, the techniques that those detectives used are actually normal, typical techniques that have been
approved by the U.S. Supreme Court.
PINSKY: But, they are pretty leading. I know you could do it on a witness stand, but they are --
CLEMENTE: But, because they are leading you do not use them on somebody who is learning disabled, who is a minor, who does not really know what the
hell is going on. He is unrepresented. He is confused. He thinks he is going back to school at 120.
BLOOM: I remember the Central Park jogger case and all of those teenagers who confessed to something they did not do.
PINSKY: Yes.
BLOOM: And, many years later they were all exonerated.
PINSKY: Yes.
BLOOM: And, it was the same kind of thing. 15, 16 years old, you get the person like that alone with law enforcement, scared to death, they will
confess to almost anything. Hard for us adults to understand, but it happens all the time.
PINSKY: Areva, hang on a second. Who is yelling?
BLOOM: Janine.
PINSKY: Janine was that you? Yes, go ahead.
DRIVER: Yes. I just want to let you know to Lisa`s point --
PINSKY: Yes.
DRIVER: -- that this similar case happened out in Chicago, where a kid admitted to raping and killing a girl.
PINSKY: Yes.
DRIVER: But, really, he was too young to even have semen. It was his older cousin that did it.
PINSKY: All right. OK.
DRIVER: But, because the cops using that technique, he admitted to something he did not do.
PINSKY: Well, let us listen. I want the audience to get a sense of how Brendan`s mind work, and Areva have comment on this.
MARTIN: OK.
PINSKY: He clearly -- he allegedly has an I.Q. in the low 70s. His affect is flat. He has what Ildiko I think we would call, a schizophrenia-form
sort of presentation.
TABORI: Absolutely.
PINSKY: We will talk about that. But, listen to Brendan and his mother during his confession, talking about the confession.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
BARBARA JANDA, BRENDAN DASSEY`S MOTHER: You watch the news?
BRENDAN DASSEY, STEVEN AVERY`S NEPHEW: About what?
JANDA: About you. It says, "Teen`s attorney seeks to throw out confession."
DASSEY: What does that mean?
JANDA: He wants to throw out the -- the statements that they made you say or whatever.
DASSEY: Yes. They said that my statements were inconsistent. What does `inconsistent" mean?
JANDA: I do not know exactly.
DASSEY: Maybe they are false or something?
JANDA: I do not know.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PINSKY: And, he changes his story multiple times even to his own mother. A little more, here we go.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DASSEY: Yes, but you might feel bad with -- if I say it today.
JANDA: Huh?
DASSEY: About what all happened.
JANDA: Huh?
DASSEY: About what all happened.
JANDA: What all happened? What are you talking about?
DASSEY: About what me and Steven did that day.
JANDA: So, Steven did do it?
DASSEY: Yes.
JANDA: Brendan, you do not just come up with something like that. If something like that did not happen. Or is it true, that he did kill her?
DASSEY: Not that I know of, I told you. He might have but not -- not with me.
JANDA: So, you are honestly telling me the truth?
DASSEY: Yes.
JANDA: You did not have nothing to do with this.
DASSEY: No.
JANDA: Do not lie to me, Brendan.
DASSEY: I ain`t.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PINSKY: Hard for anybody to know, Areva, when he is telling the truth because he goes back and forth.
MARTIN: Yes. Something we did not see in this series was the whole concept of competency. When, I listen to a 16-year-old with learning
disabilities who is borderline, who says, "What does `Inconsistent` mean," you wonder how come the attorney did not even raise the possibility that he
was not even competent to participate in his own trial.
PINSKY: Absolutely, I wonder. Or how about a psychiatric assessment for this kid.
BLOOM: Right.
MARTIN: We did not see any of that in the series.
PINSKY: Kurt, first. I do not know, it might have. Kurt.
SCHLICHTER: Look, there is a dirty little secret that us, lawyers, know, but not a lot of regular citizens know.
PINSKY: Please, let us in on it, something you guys do.
(LAUGHING)
SCHLICHTER: Confessions are often false, visual identification by witnesses like the one we saw there are often false. They are not perfect.
This is why it is so important for jurors to A. Be educated, and B. To take an active interest and look at all the evidence. Not just, "Well, I saw
him. Well, maybe he did not because here is some other evidence that show something else."
[21:20:13] PINSKY: But, Kurt --
SCHLICHTER: You got to look at everything.
PINSKY: By that same logic, we should all not be driving a complete picture of this murder case by a documentary.
SCHLICHTER: Absolutely correct.
PINSKY: And, so, people are writing a petition to send to the president. First of all, the president cannot do anything, can he? It is a state
case.
BLOOM: No.
SCHLICHTER: No.
PINSKY: So, the president has no involvement with this.
SCHLICHTER: What is the constitution between friends?
TABORI: OK, but removing the documentary you have to look at what the nephew is saying.
PINSKY: Yes.
TABORI: And, he is just trying to make the interrogators happy, and answering the questions the way they want to be answered.
BLOOM: Yes.
PINSKY: Yes. Yes.
TABORI: He is 16 years old. He had absolutely no representation. And, he wants to go back to school. He thinks he is not under arrest and/or he
thinks he is going to be under arrest for one day.
PINSKY: And nor does not he really, Jim, understand what any of this --
CLEMENTE: No. He does not really understand it. And, when some of that flip-flop that you saw on that documentaries, because he was trying again
to please the detectives. Because the detectives told him, "If you do not tell your mother tonight, we are going to tell your mother tonight. So, we
need you to be cooperating."
PINSKY: And, be honest. Be honest.
CLEMENTE: Right. Be honest. But, tell her what you said to us originally or we are going to tell her. So, he wanted to break the news to his
mother.
BLOOM: And, what are we dealing here? Cooperating --
TABORI: -- acting like a bad boy.
PINSKY: Right. And, especially, such a primitive boy. It seems like a thought disorder or something.
CLEMENTE: He is not making the distinction between murder and a lie.
PINSKY: But, he also may have a distinct trouble between reality --
BLOOM: OK. But, the important point, though, is competency is a very low standard to testify.
PINSKY: Yes.
BLOOM: If you know your name, you know what the day of the week it is, you can string a sentence together, you are competent.
MARTIN: But --
PINSKY: Ildiko -- Hang on. Ildiko, you are trying to say something.
TABORI: Yes. But, he definitely has a narrow cognitive disorder.
PINSKY: Right.
TABORI: And, it is ranging from what? 63-70.
PINSKY: Right.
TABORI: If I remember correctly. And, he cannot pick up on social cues. He has verbal delays.
PINSKY: But hang on, he also lost something like 30 pounds, was found sobbing constantly and then divulge to his cousin that he witnessed a
murder or he participated in a murder. Do you make -- I know you do not make any of that, Jim. But do you, Ildiko, make anything of that?
TABORI: I do not know what he was saying about that. He was probably still trying to make people happy and he was agreeing with what people were
feeding him --
BLOOM: Or, he was part of a murder.
CLEMENTE: But, understand --
(LAUGHING)
SCHLICHTER: Exactly.
CLEMENTE: She withdrew that statement. She said she made it up --
PINSKY: Yes, but looking at her aunt who was the maniac in all of this.
MARTIN: That is why this case has so many twists and turns. The minute you think that Avery did it, then you see something else. You will say,
"Well, maybe there is reasonable doubt."
And, in fairness to the filmmakers, Dr. Drew, they gave this prosecutor an opportunity to be interviewed and to present his side and he refused to
participate in the documentary, and now he is criticizing --
SCHLICHTER: No. He did present his side from the jury and he won --
MARTIN: He is criticizing it now and he an opportunity to be a part of it.
PINSKY: He is an elected official.
MARTIN: Well, no, he is not because he was cast out of office because he was s sexting with a victim.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Wait. Wait. Wait. I do not know about that. Forget about that. Wait, wait, wait. You got to tell me about that when we come back. And,
later on, of course, we have Donald Trump, he shows no signs about easing on his opponents. We will get into that, but more of this after the break.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[21:26:54] KEN KRATZ, FORMER WISCONSIN STATE PROSECUTOR: Bobbie, on the 3rd of November, a Thursday, I believe it is, do you recall having a
conversation with your Uncle Steven regarding a body?
BOBBIE DASSEY, STEVEN AVERY`S NEPHEW: Yes.
PROSECUTOR KRATZ: Can you tell us what your uncle Steven told you that day?
BOBBIE DASSEY: Well, my buddy, Mike, was over too, and he asked us -- it sounded like he was joking, honestly. But, he asked us if we wanted -- he
wanted us to help him get rid of the body.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DEAN STRANG, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: "Michael indicated he was aware Steven was one of the last people to see the missing girl and jokingly asked Steven if
Steven had her, the missing girl, in a closet. At this point, Steven asked Michael if Michael wanted to, quote, `help bury the body` closed quote.
And, they laughed about this together."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Now, Steven Avery`s other nephew we have been discussing Brendan. This is Bobbie. Bobbie claimed Steven even joked about getting rid of a
body, like you heard there.
I am back with Lisa, Areva, Kurt, Ildiko and Jim. And joining us Ernie White, civil rights activist and political analyst. And, Areva, you were
telling me something about the prosecutor that interested me. Tell me about that.
MARTIN: Well, you were saying that the filmmakers were biased. You thought in their presentation --
PINSKY: And, let me finish my thought on that, because I do think they restricted some of the information and they gave special privilege to the
defense attorneys who went on the wide ranging philosophical and psychological speculation that he had no business doing. And, then they
complained about other people do it. That drove me insane. So, go ahead.
(LAUGHING)
MARTIN: But, I think it has to do with access. And, they said they tried to get access to the former D.A. that prosecuted and tried the case, but he
refused to participate. And, they said to him, "Hey, take the same information and make your own documentary and rebut it if you choose to."
This guy was forced out of office because of a sexting scandal unrelated to this case. But, I think it does reflect on his judgment and it does tell
us something about him that we should not ignore.
PINSKY: And, Jim, you knew about this sexting?
CLEMENTE: Yes. Sure.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Yes, sure.
(LAUGHING)
CLEMENTE: He basically -- It was a victim of domestic violence, and he was sexting her. He was basically throwing himself upon her, over and over and
over again.
BLOOM: Eww!
CLEMENTE: And, he tried to then cover it up. And, then it came out and he was forced out of office --
MARTIN: Yes.
BLOOM: So, bad judgment, willingness to break the rules. But, I want to defend the documentary that you were --
PINSKY: OK.
BLOOM: First of all, I love long form. I feel like in an age of social media and sound bytes, we have a ten-part in-depth analysis of a case, like
cereal, like the jinx. And, I love that everybody is watching it and we actually have longer attention spans and they get to choose what is going
to be in it, what is not going to be in it. That is our choice.
PINSKY: Yes. I have the same complaint about the jinx. That poor guy had a giant scar on the top of his head, where they put a
ventriculoperitoneal shunt in, never mentioned in the documentary.
BLOOM: What?
PINSKY: The guy is severely impaired neurologically --
TABORI: Wow.
PINSKY: -- and psychiatrically.
TABORI: Frontal lobe injury.
PINSKY: You can see all that.
TABORI: Absolutely.
PINSKY: It was obvious and never mentioned. But, the same thing in this case, no psychiatric or psychological assessment discussed. Do you think
they were not done?
TABORI: I have no idea. But, they should have been done.
PINSKY: Ernie, do you have any opinion about the Brendan, the younger man -- how he was interviewed. Remember there was some question about the
technique they used. Jim is taking issue with the sort of appropriateness of the technique for this young man and his impairments.
[21:30:02] ERNIE WHITE, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: Well, I felt like he had mental impairments, myself. I mean when I watched it, I almost felt sorry
fr him.
PINSKY: Yes.
WHITE: I wondered what adult was in the room with him protecting him, because this kid would have said yes, if I said, "Brenden, would you have a
hotdog or a hamburger?" If I said, "This is a hamburger, right?" He would have said, "Yes, that is a hamburger" even though it is a hotdog. It seems
like he would have done whatever I said.
PINSKY: Now, the mom claims she was not asked into the room --
WHITE: Right.
PINSKY: And, yet the investigator said --
CLEMENTE: Say that she was, so that is a he said, she said kind of thing. But, they should have documented it if she refused it at the time. But,
they committed the most horrendous terrible sin was that they gave him -- they gave Brendan the single piece of evidence that nobody knew.
They told him -- they said, "I am just going to come out and say it" after frustratingly asking over and over and over, "What happened to her head?"
He kept giving him guesses. And, then they said, "I am just going to come out and say it, who shot her in the head." Oh my God! They just ruined
any chance of getting a real confession from that kid because they handed him the information.
MARTIN: And, we have to mention too, Dr. Drew. It was not just the cops. This guy -- Brendan`s lawyer allowed the investigators to interrogate this
16-year-old guy with this low I.Q., learning disability, without him being present.
PINSKY: And, then, even his own investigator interviewed the kid without anybody being present.
MARTIN: And, pressured him, and pressured him and pressure him.
PINSKY: Even more so.
MARTIN: Draw pictures of her being tied to the bed. Draw pictures of her being shot in the head. And, this kid is just sitting there, again, trying
to please. So, the investigator just said whatever he wanted him to say.
PINSKY: So, to be clear, we all have much more problems with Brendan`s case --
MARTIN: Yes.
PINSKY: -- than we do with Steven Avery.
MARTIN: Absolutely.
BLOOM: OK, but let me say this to defend the cops. If the mother and the lawyer said, it is OK to question him.
PINSKY: Right.
BLOOM: Listen, the cops are there to solve the murder. This is not a tea party. This is a murder investigation. They have to do things like ask
people ugly questions, nasty mean questions to try to solve a murder. And, once they jump through the hoops that they are required to, and people have
said, it is OK to talk to him, you know, we want police to solve murders.
PINSKY: And, listen. I do not want to disparage this poor mom. I do not want to create another victim. But at the end of the entire series, she
behaves in ways that are needing of, Ildiko your services, frankly, number one. And, number two, that is my professional opinion, I do not know for
sure. But, just looking at it.
And, then number two, I am worried she is manipulating some of these people, including the 14-year-old teen, that appeared who heard the
confession. Then on the stand, says she did not, she made it up. Brendan says then he made it up. Listen to this tape of Steven fighting with
Brendan`s mom and how she -- I feel bad for this woman, but listen to how she struggles here.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
JANDA: Well, he sure the (EXPLETIVE WORD) did not do it by himself --
AVERY: Well, I certainly did not do it.
JANDA: Where did Brendan get all these (EXPLETIVE WORD) from? He is going down for something that he would have never, ever (EXPLETIVE WORD) did.
AVERY: Well, what about me?
JANDA: Why would he say this about you, then, you tell me. So, my son is going to go to prison.
AVERY: Well, I do not know.
JANDA: What do you mean, you do not know? Yes, he is going to. Life in prison he is going to get and he is only 16.
AVERY: It ain`t my fault, is it? It ain`t my fault at all. It is about his statement right there. He has got life and there ain`t nothing I can
do with that. Why would he admit to something?
JANDA: How do I know?
AVERY: Well, that is what you got to figure out.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PINSKY: That poor woman is spinning like a top, Kurt.
SCHLICHTER: You know, it is crazy and this illustrates -- I think this is driving all of us lawyers crazy. But poor performance of the legal defense
team on this case is truly stunning. And, it is so vital that we have defense attorneys who can get in there and make the state prove their case,
you know, on a reasonable doubt.
PINSKY: I agree. Ildiko?
TABORI: But, what kind of parent -- what kind of mother would allow their child to be subject to this kind of interrogation?
BLOOM: Somebody completely unfamiliar with the legal system. Somebody who have low intelligence. I mean --
MARTIN: Well, this mother said -- the mother said, they would not talk to her. They would not return her calls. She tried repeatedly to be
involved, but they shut her out.
CLEMENTE: She did not know what inconsistent meant either. She is not on the highest level of intelligence, so she has -- she was overwhelmed by
this. It is not up to her. Look, I will fight for cops any day, who were doing the right thing. But, these cops have the responsibility to know
that they are talking to a kid, who is below average intelligence and they should not be using manipulative games with him.
PINSKY: Ildiko.
TABORI: But, it is also a maternal instinct to protect her child.
PINSKY: Of course. Of course.
BLOOM: It is.
PINSKY: But, this kid -- still, still, you agree with me.
TABORI: Yes.
PINSKY: Right? Mano o mano, Ildiko. This could be a violent paranoid schizophrenia with a severe neurocognitive impairment.
TABORI: It could be. Definitely, a neurocognitive impairment.
PINSKY: With some psychotic something that might have led him to do God knows what --
TABORI: Absolutely.
PINSKY: It is even possible that Brendan is the primary suspect. It is possible. But, last thought, Ernie.
WHITE: The problem I got is this. I now realized that, you got to have some money if you are going to be charged with anything because you need a
lawyer who can focus only on you. Because the offense has unlimited funds, but you have whatever you have in your bank account.
[21:35:10] PINSKY: We will leave it at that.
BLOOM: Who can afford a good lawyer.
PINSKY: Speaking of funds, Donald Trump not holding back. He is attacking Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton. And, later, I got Lisa, telling about
Bill Cosby charged in a sex crime case. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE : We had to respond to Hillary.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): "I hope Bill Clinton starts talking about women`s issues, so that voters can see what a hypocrite he
is, and how Hillary abused those women."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It is not the first time he has demonstrated attention for sexism.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
TRUMP (via phone): There was certainly a lot of abuse of women, and you look at whether it was Monica Lewinski or Paula Jones or many of them and
that certainly will be fair game.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (voice-over): "If Hillary thinks she can unleash her husband with his terrible record of abuse of women while
playing the woman`s card on me, she is wrong."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Donald Trump going after Hillary, bringing up Bill`s infidelity. Back with Lisa, Areva, Kurt, Ildiko, and Ernie. Lisa, fair game after all
this years?
BLOOM: You know, I am going to shock you. I actually agree with Donald Trump about something. I do think that Bill Clinton back in the `90s did
behave very badly with regard to women. However, what does it have to do with Hillary? Was not she a victim, as well?
[21:10:00] PINSKY: Yes, but let me flip it around. I have three women in my panel. I am going to ask any of the three of you -- one at a time,
please. What if when this all went down in the `90s, Hillary put her arm around Monica Lewinsky and went, "You know what? A man in power misused
you. I am going to stay with my husband, but this guy was inappropriate with you.
A man need to know that women are going to stand together. This will never happen again to another women." As opposed to destroying her in social
media on the media, the way she did. Ildiko, why not that? Why cannot we hold her accountable for not flipping her out?
BLOOM: That is asking a lot.
PINSKY: Why? You would do it today.
MARTIN: That is not her responsibility.
BLOOM: Against my own husband, I would side with this woman?
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Side with this woman whom my husband took advantage of.
MARTIN: But, Dr. Drew --
BLOOM: It is a consensual adult sex --
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: If you are an official in power over something an intern.
BLOOM: Yes. That is wrong, but it is not sexual assault.
PINSKY: That is not consensual.
BLOOM: It is sexual harassment. They were consenting adults.
SCHLICHTER: What about --
BLOOM: Well, that is a serious concern. I agree.
SCHLICHTER: Well, that is a serious concern. And, I think --
BLOOM: I agree. Although, I never approved but I agree. That is what I said, I agree with him.
MARTIN: It is not Hillary`s responsibility to stand next to a woman that has been unfaithful who has fooled around with her husband. I think you
are asking too much. And, let us call this what it is. The pot the skillet black. Donald Trump has been unfaithful to his own ex-wife.
BLOOM: Yes.
PINSKY: Unfaithful?
MARTIN: Yes.
BLOOM: Yes.
MARTIN: He had a marriage affair on --
BLOOM: Marla Maples --
MARTIN: Yes. So --
PINSKY: Did he deny it?
BLOOM: No.
MARTIN: No. No.
PINSKY: OK.
SCHLICHTER: I am so lucky I am not a Donald Trump supporter and I can freely point out that Hillary Clinton is a horrible hypocrite and an enemy
of women.
BLOOM: Well, how can you possibly say that?
SCHLICHTER: And, I think it is terrible -- terrible that feminists who are committed to supporting women and preventing abuse cannot say what has to
be said, because they want a liberal president.
BLOOM: What has to be said that they were not saying?
SCHLICHTER: Because of her misconduct, not Bill`s.
BLOOM: What is her misconduct?
SCHLICHTER: Her misconduct.
BLOOM: I am still waiting to hear what that is.
SCHLICHTER: Destroying the women --
BLOOM: How is she destroying women?
SCHLICHTER: Oh my God.
BLOOM: Can we have some facts in this discussion, please?
PINSKY: Monica Lewinsky, I have spoken to her. She feels like she was the first object of mob assault in social media.
BLOOM: OK. There was no social media in the 1990s --
PINSKY: Her life was destroyed by what went on the media.
BLOOM: But not by Hillary Clinton. I am waiting for some facts that Hillary abused women. That is what Trump said.
PINSKY: OK. Yes, ma`am.
TABORI: Hillary did nothing here. She just supported her husband. She stood by her husband.
SCHLICHTER: No, no. She did bad enough.
PINSKY: Wait, wait, wait. Do not we have -- somewhere today I was reading all the things that she called Monica Lewinsky. It is listed today. It is
a horrible, horrible things. If you guys can get that list of words, it is in the press.
TABORI: But she was attacking a 24-year-old girl at the time.
PINSKY: Yes. That is terrible. That is not terrible? But that does not make it better.
MARTIN: But does that disqualify you to be the president of the United States? Come on, Dr. Drew, where are you getting the standard from? When
we sit here and talk about all the names that Donald Trump has called women, has called Muslims, Latinos, African-Americans, somehow that seems
to be OK because it is now --
PINSKY: What name? What name?
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: He has attacked Rosie O`Donnell. He has attacked many women --
BLOOM: And, how about Megyn Kelly, a female journalist who asked him some questions and he implies it is because she was menstruating and he never
apologized for that and that was just a few months ago. That is beyond sexist.
PINSKY: Ernie is my Trump rep.
(LAUGHING)
WHITE: All you have to do is write now Google Clinton victims, and you are going to see more than Lewinsky. You are going to see a whole list of
women who have complaint about Bill Clinton. He is, basically, a predator. He is running for president if he is going to go out there and start
thumping for Hillary --
MARTIN: He is not on the ballot.
SCHLICHTER: This guy is going to be in the White House. He has humiliated Hillary Clinton in front of the entire world. Putin, the Mullahs, that
little creep in North Korea. They are laughing at her because she was weak.
She did not stand up and do the right thing. And, if she would not defend herself and she will not defend the principles she says she stands for, she
is not going to defend our country, no thank you.
BLOOM: And, it is OK for Trump to refer to women as a piece of ass as he has --
SCHLICHTER: I am not a Trump supporter. You better find one and talk to them.
PINSKY: Over here.
SCHLICHTER: Talk to him.
PINSKY: What about it, Ernie? What about that?
WHITE: Well, I was going to say, you said Trump referred to somebody as a piece of whatever. Bill Clinton went and got that piece of whatever. The
problem is, Bill Clinton is a predator. Hillary supports this predator and that is the problem, because --
BLOOM: Oh my God.
WHITE: You are talking about women. You are saying, "Oh, Hillary is so supportive of women," but she tried to destroy every one of them.
BLOOM: But, it is Bill by association. Hillary Clinton is the one running for president. Hillary Clinton, not Bill Clinton.
WHITE: But all those women are starting to come out --
PINSKY: OK. I got to stop it, got to stop it right there. I got to go to break. I have Bill Cosby coming up. He was charged in a sex crime case.
Lisa is going to tell us about that. And, for the record, I do not know that Bill Clinton was a predator. I am just saying I get very upset when
there is some imbalance of power, doctor-patient, teacher-student.
[21:45:00] BLOOM: Yes.
PINSKY: And, the male takes advantage of that. I have grave problems with that. And, then destroying the person with the object of that power
imbalance is egregious. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Hillary Clinton created ISIS with Obama.
(AUDIENCE CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Listen, madam president, can you imagine, oh, oh.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: His bigotry, his cluster, his bullying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: She puts on a pant suit in the morning, she gets up. Nothing wrong with that.
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: Finally, a candidate whose hair gets more attention than mine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Donald Trump is on video. And, ISIS is using him on the video to recruit, and it turned out to be a lie.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton trading insults, getting personal now. Back with Lisa, Areva, Kurt, Ildiko and Ernie. And, everyone in this
room is turned up by this. Earlier tonight, Hillary hit back at Trump. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: I have adopted a New Year`s resolution. I am going to let him live in his alternative reality and I am not going to respond.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHING)
[21:50:00] PINSKY: Ernie, is it alternative reality?
WHITE: No, it is a real reality. You know, he is talking about freedom and the other side is talking about socialism. You know, what you are
seeing in this country right now, you are seeing land being taken from Americans by non-government organizations. These are not government.
These are non-government organizations. The other side things that is OK.
PINSKY: You are talking about Oregon?
WHITE: Yes, I am. I am talking about Oregon and many others like I am talking about right here in California. It is happening everywhere.
PINSKY: Kurt, you are nodding your head yes.
SCHLICHTER: Look, any time somebody goes off on Hillary Clinton my heart just sings. She is terrible, and this is a terrible strategy. She was
always politically tone deaf, unlike Bill. Bill may be a player, but he knows how to do politics. Hillary Clinton has no talent other than
marrying the right guy.
BLOOM: She is only the front-runner in the majority party.
SCHLICHTER: Yes. That says more about the majority party than anything else.
MARTIN: Kurt, a Yale graduate, a United States Senator and Secretary of State and she has no talent?
SCHLICHTER: She would be some church lady in Illinois bothering local kids if she was not married to Bill Clinton. But --
BLOOM: So, Kurt, all of this --
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: one at a time.
SCHLICHTER: The simple fact is she is making a terrible strategic mistake not engaging Donald Trump. And, again, I am not a Trump guy. She is
underestimating the strength of his message. There is an appetite out there to see liberal elitists like Hillary Clinton to be put in their place
and that is what Donald Trump is putting.
PINSKY: Let us stay focused on that.
TABORI: What is the point of attacking Donald Trump? He is just a bored billionaire looking for entertainment. That is all he is.
SCHLICHTER: Who is also a frontrunner in a party.
TABORI: Not like Hillary.
PINSKY: You are right, Areva, she has been a state senator--
MARTIN: Thank you.
PINSKY: A Secretary of State. It is very hard to --
MARTIN: A Yale graduate?
PINSKY: Right. We should not be disparaging that, in my humble opinion.
MARTIN: Not horrible.
BLOOM: That is right.
PINSKY: But --
BLOOM: Because she wears pant suit.
PINSKY: But, what about the strategy of not engaging? That she seems to be too high --
BLOOM: That is not going to stick. She is going to have to engage with them, and I hope she does because she is going to destroy him. And, you
know, the women of America are not going to elect a man -- she is so much smarter and she is so much more presidential.
PINSKY: I do not know that she is smarter.
BLOOM: She got so much more class and dignity. No, we raise our kids, do not make fun disabled people. Do not make racist comments. Do not
disparage women. And Donald Trump does all of those things. If people of America are not going to elect him. Election day will be a wonderful
thing.
MARTIN: And, I do not think people are going to hold her accountable for something that happened two decades ago. We are passed that that.
PINSKY: We got to go to break. Ernie, last thought. Quick.
WHITE: We are going to hold her accountable for the $2 billion she has in her bank account right now under some Clinton Foundation while she was
Secretary of State. So, that is how we are going to hold her accountable.
BLOOM: What do you mean some Clinton Foundation? It is a huge charitable organization.
WHITE: Yes, $2 billion and guess what?
BLOOM: To fight AIDS in Africa.
WHITE: Hillary and Bill are loving it.
PINSKY: Next up, Bill Cosby after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:56:36] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (voice-over): Actor and comedian Bill Cosby has officially been charged with three counts of sexual assault.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (voice-over): Andrea Constand who worked with Temple University Women`s Basketball accused Cosby of drugging, then
assaulting her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIE FEMALE REPORTER (voice-over): Some 50 women have alleged similar sexual assaults over a period of four decades.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LONI COOMBS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: A number of these alleged victims reported that Camille Cosby was there during some of these incidents, that she was
in the house.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: The judge ruled that Cosby`s wife, Camille, will have to testify a deposition for a lawsuits brought by seven women who
say they were sexually assaulted and then defamed by the comedian.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOMBS: Camille has been very adamant throughout this whole process that she stands by her man.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And, if convicted of this criminal case Bill Cosby could face a maximum of ten years in prison. Now, our own Lisa is representing Janice
Dickinson in a civil case against Cosby. And, today, Camille, Cosby`s wife filed an emergency motion to delay her testimony in another civil case,
right?
BLOOM: Right. That is the case in Massachusetts. So, the judge there said, "Camille, you have to answer questions in a case on deposition."
And, they filed an emergency motion. Just like they did in my case. You know, Bill Cosby was ordered to be deposed by me.
A few months ago, they filed an emergency appeal and is now sitting in the court of appeals and we are waiting for a ruling. So, when you have
multiple law firms as he does, over 700 lawyers as he does --
PINSKY: Yes, 700 lawyers.
BLOOM: And, one of the law firms has over 700 attorneys, you can file a lot of motions, a lot of appeals and slow the whole thing down.
PINSKY: In these pictures, we see him coming out of the courtroom -- where he was in a courtroom for this?
BLOOM: Now, you are talking about the criminal case --
PINSKY: The criminal case, this picture.
BLOOM: This is him going towards his arraignment.
PINSKY: Arraignment.
BLOOM: He is going to be arraigned in Pennsylvania, that is criminal.
PINSKY: He looks very frail.
BLOOM: He does.
PINSKY: I guess, he is like an old man. Do you think one of the strategies is just to keep his plate spinning until he is no longer with
us?
BLOOM: No, I do not. I think his strategy is to fight, fight, fight all of the cases. And, remember he has countersued a number of women. I would
not be surprised if her countersues Janice Dickenson in my case when that time comes. It has not come yet.
PINSKY: For what?
BLOOM: He is saying that they have defamed him by publicly telling their accounts saying that he drugged and raped them.
PINSKY: Can you slap these attorneys -- what do you call that?
BLOOM: I wish I could slap some attorneys, but no.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: But, do you know what I am talking about?
BLOOM: You are talking about the anti-slap motion.
PINSKY: Yes.
BLOOM: Yes, here in California.
PINSKY: Yes.
BLOOM: That is kind of a fancy motion to dismiss. The anti-slap motion. Yes, we can do that, sure.
PINSKY: Because it just seems ridiculous, giving all what is going on. Now, you whispered to me while we were watching this footage ,that it is
because of the deposition that is happening.
BLOOM: Yes, I think so. So, here is what happened in the Pennsylvania case, just very quickly. You know, Andrea Constand in 2004 or 2005 said
that Cosby had sexually assaulted her. The prosecutor at that time would not prosecute.
She gets civil attorneys. The civil attorneys take his deposition. And, a lot of that testimony was publicly revealed last year, 2015. And he made a
lot of incriminating statements like he got Quaaludes, gave it to the women.
He says consensually. They said not consensually. When asked, you know, point blank, she says she was not able to consent to sex with you because
she was so out of it, he said, "I do not know." He did not deny it.
PINSKY: And let us remind ourselves. We all had kind of issues with that deposition being released, right?
BLOOM: I did not have any issues with it being released. I thought that was a good thing/
PINSKY: It was a good thing, he was guilty, but in terms of he was -- well, we are out of time.
BLOOM: OK. But, the prosecutor now I think looked at it and said, "Now, I have evidence to use against him. Now, we are going to charge him."
PINSKY: All right, please DVR us then you can watch our shows any time. We appreciate you being here. Panel, great job. Thank you so much for
being here. Again, we will be here tomorrow same time. Please check us out. And, we will see you next time.
[22:00:00] (MUSIC PLAYING)
END
