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Dr. Drew
Spike Lee, Will Smith And His Wife Jada Pinkett Smith Are Refusing To Attend The Academy Awards, Because No People Of Color Were Nominated In The Categories; The Latest CNN/ORC Polls Is Showing That Donald Is Still On Top With 37 Percent Of Likely IOWA Caucus Goers Supporting Trump; The Convicted Steven Avery`s Mom Comes Out And Says, "The Victim Is Not Dead"; Teresa Halbach`s charred remains were discovered on Steven Avery`s property in November 2005, Bu His Parents Believe Police Set Him Up
Aired January 21, 2016 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:00:09] ROLONDA WATTS, HOST OF "ROLONDA ON DEMAND" PODCAST: Hello, everybody, I am Rolanda Watts sitting in for Dr. Drew tonight. Is the
Oscars boycott a bust? Spike Lee, Will Smith and his wife Jada Pinkett Smith are refusing to attend the Academy Awards. Why? Because no people
of color were nominated in the categories. So, why are not more celebrities following their lead? Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Things are looking a little too pale here if you ask me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: For two years or a number of years in a row and no African-Americans, no people of color, that is an obvious problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSEPH PHILLIPS, ACTOR: All of these voices screaming for diversity did not care last year. They did not care the year before. They did not
care the year before that. It is only now that they care.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKI TURNER, USC ANNENBURG LECTURER & REGULAR POP CULTURE CRITIC: We are still talking about a 13.5-inch statue to validate your work.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIERNA MAYO, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, EBONY MAGAZINE: African-American stars not showing up to the Oscars would mean about 2 percent of the people there
are not in attendance.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Exactly.
MAYO: This is the big story.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATTS: This is the big story, and everybody is talking about it. Joining me tonight, Judy Ho, Clinical Psychologist and Professor at
Pepperdine University; Lisa Bloom, Civil Rights Lawyer at the Bloom Firm, and Legal Analyst for Avvo.com; Segun Oduolowu, Entertainment Journalist.
I thought Rolonda was tough to say.
(LAUGHING)
And, Larry Elder, radio commentator at CRLA-CRN and author of "Dear Father, Dear Son." OK, folks, we have only been talking about three major
celebrities boycotting the Oscars this year. Why are not more celebrities doing it? Why are not white celebrities doing it? Who wants to take that
one? Who wants to take that one?
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, ENTERTAINMENT JOURNALIST: White celebrities have nothing to lose. I mean, they are the ones being nominated. So, what is
the onus on them to stand by their black brethren in the field of acting?
WATTS: Were you surprised that not more blacks were boycotting?
ODUOLOWU: I was surprised by a lot of things. I mean Angelina Jolie and a lot of these actors and actresses love to adopt black babies. Why
are not they standing by other black actors? That shocked me. Why are not more black actors coming out like Spike Lee and Don Cheadle and Will Smith
had been saying, why is it two years in a row?
There are 20 people nominated. None of them were of color. Where are the Latinos and the Asians? Where is everybody? Why do not they look like
our stage, like why do not they look like this United Colors of Benetton stage that we have here?
WATTS: Well, I am going to say --
LISA BLOOM, CIVIL RIGHTS LAWYER AND LEGAL ANALYST: Yes. Yes.
ODUOLOWU: Why do not they do that?
WATTS: Well, I was going to say -- Judy, take that one, because I was going to ask you, it is not just black folks or minorities. There are
Asians. There are native Americans. There are Latinos.
JUDY HO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Right. And, they are not being represented. And, maybe there is not more people jumping to boycotting,
because truly, we actually need their presence on the Oscars. We need them to get on the voting committee, actually make a difference.
By them boycotting, perhaps is not the most sufficient way to address the issue, because then they will all just be gone. All the people would
actually say something and stand up are gone. They will not be present at the Oscars.
WATTS: Well, that is the thing that upsets me. My things is you never win a political battle on the sidelines.
HO: Right.
WATTS: Get in there when you have the red carpet showing before the Oscars. That is the perfect time for you to get there, get your platform
out. Everybody from all over the world is going to be there. Why are you staying at home?
LARRY ELDER, RADIO COMMENTATOR: Rolanda, what is the fight? What is the battle? What are we griping about? I have a friend who is an actor
and director. And, I asked him, give me the number one reason why we care about this. He said, "Self-esteem for black boys and black girls."
I said, "Are you aware that study after study after study shows that black boys and black girls have higher self-esteem than white boys and
white girls do? Black boys and black girls have higher self-esteem than white teenage girls, who are obsessed with a Barbie-body type, black girls
are not. They have a much healthier attitude?"
They get their self-esteem from their parents, from their family, from their teachers, like everybody else. Nobody cares about this. Spike Lee
just sold his house for $3.25 million. They had it listed for $3.25 million. Jada Pinkett Smith is wealthy. These are elite black people
leading the charge. Most normal black people do not care. Normal black people do not care. They do not care.
(CROSSTALKS)
WATTS: But, let us hear what Lisa has to say.
BLOOM: OK, but that is not the point.
ELDER: It is the point.
BLOOM: And, I do not think it is about self-esteem. I think it is about representing the community. And, it is not just magic that it is all
white this year. It was all white last year. It does not just magically happen.
It happens because -- Let me talk. It happens because of internalized racial bias, implicit racial bias, something I have studied a lot. I have
written a book about and I know something about it, because --
ELDER: They have higher self-esteem, did you hear me just say that just now?
BLOOM: IT is not about self-esteem at all.
WATTS: But, what are you saying?
BLOOM: What I am saying is that when you have a disproportionate -- I think it is 94 percent white of the people who are voting, let us face it.
WATTS: -- of all 51 academy board members, two are black.
BLOOM: There are two, right.
ODUOLOWU: There are non-white.
BLOOM: And, here is what happens, what we know from millions of people --
WATTS: Are non-white. They are non-white.
BLOOM: -- feeding in data to these very elaborate studies done by Harvard University is that white people tend to think that other white
people are more beautiful, more talented, better for the job, et cetera.
WATTS: So, what you are saying is do not vote for ducks. Vote for chickens.
(LAUGHING)
BLOOM: Yes.
ODUOLOWU: Yes.
BLOOM: And, that is why you need diversity on the committee. And, that is why this is a very important action, and I support it.
[21:05:02] ELDER: Lisa.
BLOOM: I support any kind of action that stands up against white supremacy and white privilege.
ELDER: Lisa.
BLOOM: And, that is what they are doing and I support that.
(APPLAUDING)
ELDER: Lisa.
WATTS: But, wait, before we go there. Let us take a listen to what Will Smith said, because -- And, Judy, I want to get to you also. What
psychological impact does this have on our children? Some critics think that Will Smith should have been nominated for the film "Concussion." But,
he says the decision to stay home on Oscar night is not about being snub. This is what he told "Good Morning America" on ABC.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILL SMITH, ACTOR: This is so deeply not about me. This is about children that are going to sit down and they are going to watch this show.
And, they are not going to see themselves represented. If we are not part of the solution, we are part of the problem. And, it was her call to
action for herself and for me and for our family to be a part of the solution.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATTS: Kids are not only going to look at the Oscars and not see themselves if they are of color represented in the major categories, but
they are also going to listen to all the father around the dinner table and listen to us sitting here talking on HLN. How does this affect kids, Judy?
HO: It affects them profoundly. And, this is the reason, Rolonda. This is what happens when children do not see role models that are similar
to them. They start to question what it will take for them to actually get to that level, if they want to have success in a certain career, if they
want to go to a certain type of school.
If they do not see that being represented, they feel like maybe that is not where I can go or where I should go. And, self-esteem aside, which
research actually is quite conflictual, because how people define self- esteem can be very different from community to community.
ODUOLOWU: Yes.
HO: So, perhaps, one aspect of black self-esteem is more elevated than whites. But, there is all of these other things like, "Who do I look
to? Who do I believe are my role models and mentors and teachers? And, when they do not see something that represents themselves, it makes them
believe that they cannot achieve some of the things.
WATTS: But is that the responsibility of Hollywood?
ODUOLOWU: No, but wait. Here is the responsibility of Hollywood, because it says show business. The number one movie in America was "Star
Wars" with a multi-ethnic cast. It got bumped out of the number one slot by "Ride Along 2," which is Ice Cube and Kevin Hart.
So, if you are going to tell me that the business end is not represented with color, then I have to think that the show part should be
too. And, when I look out on that T.V., it is not about I need them to pump up my self-worth. I want recognition for the art form that I am
contributing to and they are denying me that.
BLOOM: And, you want inclusion.
ODUOLOWU: They are denying me that.
BLOOM: You want inclusion and diversity --
WATTS: Well, I will tell you one thing. Talk about "Ride Along 2." Those two said would not ride along with this boycott because we are making
too much money.
ODUOLOWU: Absolutely.
HO: Right.
BLOOM: Right.
WATTS: They are making too much money. Go on.
BLOOM: That is good for them. But, you know, diversity does not just happen. Diversity is important, yes, in show business and in every
business. In my business -- in my law firm, for example, I am not going to hire just my friends and my friend`s friends. You know, we make a very --
WATTS: That is Hollywood.
BLOOM: -- because my friends are disproportionately white, as is the case for most white people. You do not get diversity unless you make an
effort to reach out and include everyone. This is not just about Will Smith. It is about a whole field of African American and Asian and Latino
actors year after year, who do not get recognized because the --
(CROSSTALKS)
WATTS: But, Lisa, how many -- how much of this conversation is actually happening in white homes? Do white people even care that people
are boycotting?
BLOOM: You know what?
WATTS: Do they care about --
BLOOM: First of all, I think they have already won, because we are talking about it tonight. Would we be talking about #OscarSoWhite, this
whole issue if they were not boycotting? We are talking about it. So, they are winning because are getting the message out.
(CROSSTALKS)
ODUOLOWU: But, I do not think --
ELDER: Black people do not care about it.
ODUOLOWU: Do not say that, because I am black and I care.
WATTS: Wait a minute. Hold on. We are going to continue that conversation. Do black people really care about this boycott?
ODUOLOWU: I do. I do. Judy, I am black.
WATTS: Let us talk about it. We are going to talk about that --
ELDER: Because you are in the industry. Most of people do not care.
WATTS: All right. Hold it. Hold it till after the break. I am going to get up like Dr. Drew and storm toward the camera.
(LAUGHING)
Later in this broadcast, the Donald. Can anybody defeat this man? The republican front-runner, can you believe it? Could he be the next
president? We are going to have a lot to talk about, right after this.
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[21:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: We are talking about millionaires honoring other millionaires.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TURNER: It just seems outrageous when as a race we have so many other bigger issues to be concerned about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: I have the box office for "Straight Outta Compton", and this was in the end of 2015, $ 200 million worldwide.
BALDWIN: Huge.
LEMON: That is huge. You look at $42.6 Million for Creed for -- that is not even worldwide.
BALDWIN: Yes.
LEMON: So, when you look at that, those are the people we are supporting with our dollars.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY AND LEGAL ANALYST: What if we had a year with no white actors or actresses were nominated?
PINSKY: I think people would sigh a big, "Whew!"
MARTIN: Oh, no, Dr. Drew.
SCHACHER: My God!
MARTIN: No way.
PINSKY: If people will feel good, that is fine.
(CROSSTALKS)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHING)
WATTS: Welcome back, everybody. I am Rolonda Watts sitting in for Dr. Drew tonight. And, unlike the Oscar, Dr. Drew does give black folks a
chance. Jada Pinkett Smith. We have all heard it, sparked the idea of an Oscars boycott with the message on Facebook. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JADA PINKETT SMITH, ACTRESS AND WIFE OF WILL SMITH: The academy has the right to acknowledge whoever they choose, begging for acknowledgment or
even asking, diminishes dignity and diminishes power. Let us let the academy do that with all grace and love and let us do us differently.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATTS: Not all of that was very nice and very Jada, but boy does she get an angry response from actress Janet Hubert. Did you see that? You
might remember her as the original Aunt Viv. But boy, she let them have it. She was on the "Fresh Prince of Bellaire" with Will Smith. Take a
listen to what she has to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[21:15:04] JANET HUBERT, PLAYED "AUNT VIVIAN" IN "THE FRESH PRINCE OF BEL AIRE" FILM: I wanted to say something about Jada Pinkett Smith asking
other actors, black actors and actresses to boycott the Oscars. For you to ask other actors and other black actresses and black actors to jeopardize
their career and they are standing in the town that you know damn well, you do not do that.
And, you all need to get over yourselves. You have a huge production company that you only produce your friends, your family and yourself. So,
you are a part of Hollywood. You are a part of the system that is unfair to other actors. So, get real.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATTS: Ooh, I would say what is real is a little bitterness. Back with Judy, Lisa, Segun and Larry. And, I want to get back to that question
that we were asking earlier. Do black folks really care that these rich, wealthy Hollywood actors are not going to put on their Tuxedos and evening
gowns dripping in diamonds. Are they really upset that they are not going to the Oscars? Does this make a difference?
ELDER: It does not matter. In addition to the fact as I said before. Black boys and girls have higher self-esteem than white boys and girls,
they are also voting with their pocketbooks. Black people watch more television by two hours per day than any other ethnic group.
They see more movies than white people do. If Hollywood is not sensitive to their needs, if Hollywood is not putting on their images? Why
are they consuming so much of what Hollywood produces?
ODUOLOWU: I disagree with you on that completely. First of all --
ELDER: The facts.
(CROSSTALKS)
ODUOLOWU: Well, no, no, no. You cannot say that black boys and girls -- you cannot blanket statement that all black boys and girls, because here
is a black man that does not agree with it, that does think that the art form and that art in general. When I do not see myself, yes, it makes me
not to pursue it as aggressively. And, I think the academy does owe a more inclusive environment.
Like I said, they had ten slots for best picture. They only gave eight away. That means two slots were open, and you do not nominate
"Straight Outta Compton"? That broke down all types of barriers. But, you only nominate the two white screenwriters? You cannot tell me that is
fair. And, you cannot tell me that does not chip at someone`s self-esteem or at someone`s self-worth.
WATTS: Lisa.
BLOOM: You take on the battle in your own industry, and Will and Jada and Spike Lee, this is their industry and I salute -- By the way, the
hardest place to do a battle is in your own industry. It is very easy to say, "Well, you people over there, you should behave differently." I
applaud them for doing that.
WATTS: So, let me ask you that, because Will Smith, Jada, Spike, they do not have to do an appeal the way some of the other actors who are not as
-- are not recognized, I will say. Yet, they are calling for a boycott. That could be blacklisting in Hollywood that could be putting your career
on the line.
BLOOM: No. I do not think so --
ODUOLOWU: You cannot be afraid to step off master`s plantation and we are going to be chased --
(CROSSTALKS)
ELDER: Oh, for crying out loud. Oh, come on.
ODUOLOWU: No, no. Hold on. The only difference in this point is --
ELDER: Every business there is, all these people out here are liberal --
ODUOLOWU: Liberal? How many black studio heads are there? Do not tell me it is liberal? How many black directors do you know were nominated
for best picture in the last 20 years? Do not tell me it is liberal. How many black --
ELDER: Do you want an answer?
ODUOLOWU: Hold on a second.
ELDER: I can give you one.
ODUOLOWU: How many black leading actors can you name off the top of your head, and do not tell me it is liberal.
WATTS: Well, let me ask you this. Would not it --
ODUOLOWU: The appearance is very different than the reality.
WATTS: Would not it be more effective instead of boycotting the Oscars that you boycott movies, since the black audience, we talk about 76
percent --
ELDER: They are not doing that. They are going to see the movies, as I mentioned.
WATTS: I mean the biggest civil rights movement we saw was the boycott of the buses. That was an economic battle. You want to hit
America, hit them in the pocket, not at Oscar.
BLOOM: This is the highest pinnacle of the industry. This is where they want the take the fight.
ELDER: Take the fight?
BLOOM: And, you know, I have been in the civil rights movement for a long time. It is always great to say, "Why do not you do this other
thing?" This is what they are doing. And, to everyone who is criticizing them, I say do you disagree that there is structural racism in Hollywood or
somewhere else? You should know.
ELDER: Yes, I do.
BLOOM: Well, OK, you do, but most people do not.
ELDER: Yes, I do.
BLOOM: And, for those who agree that it is there, what are you doing other than criticizing them?
(CROSSTALKS)
ELDER: These are the same racists who nominated Jamie Foxx for "Ray." He won an Oscar for that. The same racists who nominated Denzel Washington
for "Training Day."
BLOOM: How many years ago was that?
HO: That was a long time ago.
ELDER: The same racists who nominated the woman that did "Monster Ball." I mean the same racists --
ODUOLOWU: So, Halle Berry --
BLOOM: That was like 20 years.
(CROSSTALKS)
WATTS: But, let me --
ELDER: Actors nominate other actors. Producers nominate other producers. Directors nominate other directors. Are they all bigots? Are
the peers of all these actors, bigots? That is what you were saying. You are saying Tom Hanks is a bigot.
(CROSSTALKS)
WATTS: Let us take a listen --
ELDER: You are saying Tom Hanks is a bigot. Jamie Foxx is a bigot.
WATTS: But let us take a listen to Stacey Dash.
ELDER: Matt Damon is a bigot. Ben Affleck is a bigot.
WATTS: Let me say this --
ELDER: They are all bigots, right?
WATTS: Larry, you and Stacey Dash remind me of each other. I want you to listen to what she says. Stacey Dash, boy, she can get some hair-
raising here. She opposes this whole Oscars boycott, but this is what she says. She wants to get rid of not just the boycott, but B.E.T., the NAACP
image awards, and she had the nerve to say she wants to get rid of black history month. Listen to this from Fox.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[21:20:00] STACEY DASH, ACTRESS: We have to make up our minds. Either we want to have segregation or integration. And, if we do not want
segregation, then we need to get rid of channels like B.E.T. and the B.E.T. Awards and the Image awards, where you are only awarded if you are black.
If it were the other way around, we would be up in arms. It is a double standard.
STEVE DOOCY, HOST OF FOX & FRIENDS: So, you say there should not be a B.E.T. Channel?
DASH: No, I do not think so. No. Just like there should not be a black history month, you know. We are Americans, period. That is it.
DOOCY: Are you saying there should not be a black history month because there is not a white history month?
DASH: Exactly. Exactly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATTS: Every day is white history month. Every day is white history month. So, which is it? Because we do claim we want this integration, but
yet we create separation. Is it segregation? Is it integration?
HO: Well, here is the problem, because when you, actually, look at the movie industry and the T.V. industry, blacks are well-represented.
And, that is why there are people who are watching, because you do see black faces on television. But, when it comes to the elevated status of
who wins the awards, you see the disparity.
And, that is actually where I think the problem is. If the problem was just widespread, and when you are watching the T.V., it is the same
thing. You only see white faces, and then you are only nominating white faces. "OK, well, then, we have a widespread problem."
The disparity is what angers people. Why is it that we have all of this representation? And, that actually represents our world, because our
country right now -- it is not even the minority anymore. The minority is the majority when you put it all together.
ODUOLOWU: Absolutely.
HO: That did not do something.
BLOOM: Stacey Dash was on B.E.T.
HO: Right.
BLOOM: She was on a show called "The Game" on B.E.T. She benefitted from B.E.T. And, now she got the nerve to disB.E.T.
HO: Right.
WATTS: But, wait a minute. B.E.T., I think somebody from B.E.T. sent her back a tweet and said, "Would you like to give us back our check?"
BLOOM: Yes. Exactly.
HO: Yes, right. Can we have that back? And, that is the problem. Because in some ways, yes. This is the avenues that maybe some black
people have had to go to be able to be honored. They had to create their own awards.
ELDER: So, you want quotas.
HO: And, so --
ELDER: You want quotas.
HO: No, no, no.
ELDER: You have an x number of black nominated every single year?
HO: No. Larry, this is not a fight between you me and you.
ELDER: You want quotas.
HO: Larry, this is not a fight between me and you. I am a behaviorist and I am a scientist. I am just letting you know --
ELDER: I am asking you a question. You want quotas.
HO: I do not need quotas.
ELDER: But, then what difference does it make if a year goes by somebody does not get nominated? --
HO: Larry, please let me speak. Larry when you speak I let you speak --
WATTS: One at a time, one at a time.
HO: When you speak, I let you speak. You listen to me. OK?
WATTS: All right, Judy, go.
HO: This is what I am saying. The reason why we have had to have separate approaches is because people do not feel inclusive. So, if we are
going to make it inclusive, let us do it all together. And, we have enough numbers to do that. If every time there was a power differential, people
backed down, there might still be people working on plantations.
ELDER: So, this is our plantation? Rice flavor --
WATTS: And, speaking of a power differential is Donald Trump unbeatable? I cannot believe this man could possibly be president. A new
poll seems to suggest that he is unbeatable. We are going debate that right after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would like to bring up, if I might, Governor Sarah Palin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH PALIN, (R) ALASKA GOVERNOR: I am in it to win it. Teachers and teamsters and cops and cooks, you rock `n rollers and holy rollers. You
ready for a commander in chief who will let our warriors do their job and go kick ISIS` ass?
TRUMP CAMPAIGN SUPPORTERS: Yes1
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PALIN: You guys are all sounding kind of angry is what we are hearing from the establishment. We are mad and we have been had. The status quo
has got to go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATTS: She is back as so are we. Welcome back. I am Rolonda Watts sitting in for Dr. Drew tonight. Is Sarah Palin`s endorsement of the
Donald helping or hurting him? Well, the latest CNN/ORC polls is showing that Donald is still on top with 37 percent of likely IOWA caucus goers
supporting Trump.
26 percent backing Cruz. The other numbers, well, I guess they are just speaking for themselves there. Back with Judy, Lisa and Segun. And,
joining us now is David A. Arnold, comedian.
DAVID A. ARNOLD, COMEDIAN: How you doing?
WATTS: I am doing great.
ARNOLD: Great.
WATTS: This is something else. I mean -- Sarah Palin is back. Is she going to help or hurt? What do you think, Lisa?
BLOOM: Well, so far in my lifetime, she has not supported a presidential candidate who has won, right? And, in fact, she could not
even finish her first time in office as Governor of Alaska. Then she had a couple of reality shows that failed. So, she is a lot better at failure
than at victory. So, I am not particularly concerned.
WATTS: You got two reality stars here running for president. This is the new America, David.
ARNOLD: This it is. This is exactly what we want. We want the sound bite and they are responding tonight. That is what I love about the fact
that Donald Trump has changed the face of the way politics will be ran from now on. It is the sound bite. It is the Twitter followers. It is social
media. It is being politically incorrect. And, they love it.
WATTS: Love it.
ODUOLOWU: But it is wrong. It is wrong.
WATTS: What makes it wrong? This is a free America.
ODUOLOWU: It is wrong, because I want my politicians to actually have a platform. This man`s platform is to bully people and say nothing other
than accuse people. And, I thought we were done with Sarah Palin.
I thought we -- I thought we would never have to see her and her nutso and rhetoric and all this. I thought a polar bear gotten her in Alaska. I
was so happy that she was not here. This is Trump`s first misstep. I cannot see how she helps him. As Lisa said, she is not really back on the
winning side very often.
WATTS: Judy?
HO: But, here is the thing. The two of them are excellent public speakers. They have got those sound bites.
BLOOM: No, they are not.
HO: And, America`s attention span is about seven seconds. And, they are very good at delivering seven-second sound bites that enrages people.
And, emotion is what drives people to the polls, not logic.
WATTS: But, wait a minute -- seven-second sound bites is not presenting a platform for presidential consideration.
ODUOLOWU: That is why it is wrong.
ARNOLD: Can you imagine running your life in less than seven seconds?
(LAUGHING)
BLOOM: They are actually both terrible public speakers. So, she does not even speak English, I do not think. She has these longwinded strange
sentences about how he created fire --
WATTS: But, wait, wait, wait --
BLOOM: And, he looks so uncomfortable. If you want to see somebody look uncomfortable, watch Donald Trump when someone sells the center of
attention.
[21:30:00] WATTS: A lot of people were looking uncomfortable when Sarah Palin went into the whole evangelical movement. Do you remember when
she used the word "Hallelujah." She made references to religion several times during the rally. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PALIN: How about the rest of us? Right-wing and bitter clinging proud clingers of our guns, our God or/and our religions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HO: Oh, goodness.
WATTS: Is this what Trump needs? Is he going for the evangelical movement? What is happening?
ODUOLOWU: You know Trump. Look at his face on that video. He looks so upset that this woman is talking on his behalf. If they could have
sandman like the Apollo and dragged her off stage, he would have been so happy.
(LAUGHING)
Here is the other thing. How do you preach evangelical, and your children are such a mixed bag of nuts. Instead of being on stage thumping
and stumping for Trump, go take care of your home.
WATTS: Listen to this. We all heard about Track, Sarah Palin`s son - -
ODUOLOWU: Right.
WATTS: -- who was arrested on domestic violence charges.
HO: Right.
WATTS: -- after a fight with his girlfriend. Well, at the rally, Palin seemed to blame the president for this -- I just do not even --
HO: You cannot even form a sentence.
WATTS: I cannot even form a sentence for this charge. Anyway, Trump later said he thought that linking -- yes, just take a listen to this
track.
(LAUGHING)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PALIN: My son, like so many others, they come back a bit different. They come back hardened. They come back wondering if there is that respect
for what it is that their fellow soldiers and air men and every other member of the military so, sacrificially have given to this country. That
comes from our own president, where they have to look at him and wonder, do you know what we go through? Do you know what we are trained to do to
secure America?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATTS: So, it is President Obama`s fault that he beat up his girlfriend because he -- allegedly, because he had this post-traumatic
stress.
HO: And, this woman --
WATTS: Anyway, let me just point out that Trump did later say that he thought linking Track to Obama was -- well, he said it was appropriate. Do
you agree?
BLOOM: And outrageous.
ODUOLOWU: Yes, that is irresponsible.
HO: That is ridiculous.
BLOOM: As somebody who prosecutes domestic violence cases every day, how dare you, Sarah Palin, blame your son`s domestic violence on the
president. And, by the way, Michelle Obama has spent eight years as like the forefront of her first lady activities helping military families. But,
the perpetrator of domestic violence is responsible for his actions and no one else.
WATTS: But, it sounds like the two of them are very good at what I call the old hand grenade throwing. The attention is on you and then all
of the sudden you pull the key out and throw it and go, "Whoa, look what happened over there!"
HO: Yes. I understand why they are running together, because they both do not take responsibility for their mistakes. And, the reason why
Sarah Palin has such a messed up family is because she has no regulations or anything over her own children. She does not take responsibility. She
just blames other people when things go wrong, and that is what Donald Trump does also.
WATTS: Well, I got to say, I have known Donald Trump since the mid- `80s when I was a New York City reporter. Many of you may recall at WNBC, WABC and I was chasing trump all over the place. I am to blame. I am to
blame.
ODUOLOWU: You built this monster.
WATTS: He has not changed in those some 30 years. This is who he is.
HO: Wow.
WATTS: It is always been -
BLOOM: Well, except his political position.
WATTS: Well, I do not know if he has ever had a political position.
BLOOM: No, he has changed dramatically when he decided to become a republican candidate.
WATTS: But, I have not heard a platform yet.
ODUOLOWU: Thank you. That is why I said it is wrong.
WATTS: I have not heard one platform. I have heard a lot of bullying.
ARNOLD: He sounds like a salesman. Anybody who goes, "Believe me. Trust me." --
BLOOM: Yes.
ARNOLD: That sounds like somebody who is selling you a car.
BLOOM: Right.
ARNOLD: It is like "What are you going to do about, you know, National Security?" "Trust me, I got it."
BLOOM: Right.
ARNOLD: But, that is not an answer.
BLOOM: It is going to be a beautiful law.
ODUOLOWU: Right.
ARNOLD: "And, we will get Mexico to pay for it." No, you are not.
(LAUGHING)
WATTS: We are going to continue this conversation.
HO: But America is buying it.
WATTS: We will continue it. Also, a little later, stick with us, because we are going to be talking about "Making a Murderer". Big
bombshell. Listen to this. The convicted killer`s mom comes out and says, "The victim is not dead."
HO: What?
WATTS: Can you believe this? We are going to hear from the mom after the break.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TED CRUZ, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Everyone understands that the values in New York City are socially liberal, are pro-abortion, are pro-gay
marriage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think he insulted a tremendous number of people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRUZ: And, the Washington establishment is rushing over to support Donald Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: This is a nasty guy. Nobody likes him. Nobody in congress likes him. Nobody likes him anywhere once they get to know him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHING)
WATTS: Somebody likes the Donald. A whole lot of somebodys. Welcome back, everybody. I am Rolonda Watts, and I am sitting in for Dr. Drew
tonight. Well, the bromance between Donald Trump and Ted Cruz is over. Check this out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WATTS (voice-over): Trump tweets out this bizarre photo. And, it is photoshopped. It is a picture of Cruz going bald. What is the point?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATTS (on camera): Back with Judy, Lisa, Segun and David. David, this seems like the most immature bullyish.
HO: Uh-huh.
WATTS: What is this?
ARNOLD: I thought he was going to put a little mustache on him. And, that would have been perfect. You know what? I am telling you. He is a
bully. He is ridiculous, and people love it. I love him just because I never know what he is going to say.
WATTS: You love Donald Trump?
ARNOLD: I love the ridiculousness of him. I mean, he is about to make it OK to just reach over and slap somebody.
(LAUGHING)
WATTS: Do you think he will be president? Do you think he actually has a serious run? Do you think people --
ARNOLD: I hope not.
WATTS: They may enjoy him, but what happens in that booth?
ARNOLD: That is what I hope -- I hope it does not go all the way there. I hope that like we get there and it is like, "OK, we got to come
to our senses."
BLOOM: But, he know he is a bully. And, I say to Sarah Palin, you know, Sarah Palin who supported John McCain. And, John McCain has always
been loyal and said kind things to her. And, Trump said those nasty things about John McCain, about how he is not a war hero.
Sarah Palin, who has a disabled child, and Donald Trump made fun of a disabled reporter in a very mean-spirited way. You know, I am surprised
even at Sarah Palin. I know that they are similar politically, but I am surprised that she would support him.
[21:40:00] WATTS: Why is she supporting him? She wants the spotlight.
HO: For fame and glory. That is what she is really after. She has shown that over and over again. This is just our new reality show. If
they actually take the presidency, it will basically be like, you know, episodes of what the president and the vice president do all day long is
what I am afraid of.
WATTS: If they get the presidency, Trump, please say second Corinthian, not two. Trump took a lot of heat this week after he seemed to
misquote a bible verse while speaking at a Christian University. But, last night he said he did not make the mistake. It was not him.
ODUOLOWU: It was God.
(LAUGHING)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Two Corinthians, right? Two Corinthians, 3:17. That is the whole ball game. Where the spirit of the Lord, right? Where the spirit of
the Lord is, there is liberty. And, here there is Liberty College.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
TRUMP (via phone): My mother was from Scotland. And, in Europe and in the UK, they say -- they actually say two. They say two Corinthians.
And, a number of people have pointed this out. And, it was not a big deal. I am surprised you are even asking the question.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHING)
HO: Oh, he is really in all of Scotland?
ODUOLOWU: Come on.
WATTS: Come on. All right. Is he pandering to the evangelicals?
ODUOLOWU: Absolutely pandering, but he was pandering so poorly. You can tell. He does not go to church.
BLOOM: Yes.
ODUOLOWU: He is a billionaire. He goes to the cathedral of wealth. He got casinos. That is his church. Trump Towers, that is where he goes
to pray. Two Corinthians? He could not even get the verse out. And, then we have got liberty and then that is Liberty College. If you believe that,
if those Christians believe that, they should be fed to the lions.
WATTS: Maybe he is going or to the black vote.
ARNOLD: He ain`t going for the black vote saying two Corinthians.
(LAUGHING)
(CROSSTALKS)
ODUOLOWU: Right. Yes. There is not a brother on this planet that nose it ain`t second Corinthians.
WATTS: I can hear the whole church going, "Mmm-huh."
(LAUGHING)
BLOOM: He got a Scottish mother? I mean should we check his birth certificate? Should she be deported?
WATTS: Oh!
ARNOLD: That is right.
WATTS: Well, speaking of other lands on the other side of the pond, Trump is making news too. British parliament of all places held a debate
to discuss banning Donald Trump from the UK. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (1): Donald Trump is no more than a demagogue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (2): His policy to close borders, if he is elected as president is bonkers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (1): If we did as a country start to ban people because they said things we did not like, I wonder how long the list
would be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): You do not need a crystal ball to recognize that the person you are dealing with may be a successful
businessman, is also a buffoon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHING)
WATTS: I think it is bonkers that he is even being discussed. And, we should take note, folks, that they do not actually have the power to ban
somebody in the British parliament. So, this was mainly just for show.
But why not? You got two reality stars. Why not create a reality show in the British parliament people. So, if banning somebody for the --
is this banning somebody for their political beliefs? I mean, how seriously should we take this, Lisa?
BLOOM: First of all, I love watching the British parliament. They are so adorable. I love hearing them talk. Like give me the popcorn. I
could watch this all day.
HO: Right.
BLOOM: I think they are trying to make a point. By the way, every single speaker that I heard was anti-Donald Trump. The only question was
well, we hate him, but we are going to basically support his freedom of speech or we hate him and we are going to ban him. Those were the only two
sides.
WATTS: David, did it hurt your feelings that the British parliament wanted to ban your man?
ARNOLD: It hurt my feelings that everybody sounded cool no matter what they were saying. Like everybody -- I was like, what? First of all,
I got lost in what they were talking about, because I was like, "They sound so great, even though they hate him." And, I hate him too, but they sound
great saying it.
ODUOLOWU: Yes, they do. That is the part that I love. It was like C-span meets "Downton Abbey." I mean I love it. It should be an eye
opening to us that people are noticing that, "Hey, this could actually happen in America like we might have to deal with this guy on a global
scale, and he said some things that rankled us over here."
WATTS: And, I am going to tell you what, as long as I have been living, I have never heard our politics or their candidates or our
candidates discussed in parliament in Britain.
Anyway, we are going the hear from Steven Avery`s mom. This is a real bombshell, folks. This woman says that the woman killed is allegedly
killed, or who the courts say was killed. Well, the mom says, "No." Steve Avery`s mom says, "She is alive." Where is she getting this? We will talk
about that and a lot more, right after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CAPTION)
"Steven Avery and his nephew, Brendan Dassey, were sentenced to life in prison for the murder of Teresa Halbach."
"But Avery`s mother, Dolores, insists they are innocent."
(END VIDEO CAPTION)
DOLORES AVERY, STEVEN AVERY`S MOTHER: They should be out of there. They do not belong in the prison. Put the ones in there that have done
something, not the innocent ones. Them cops should sit there for a while, like about 50 years. And, see how they feel and how their family feels.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATTS: Welcome back. I am Rolonda Watts sitting in for Dr. Drew tonight. 78-year-old Dolores Avery not only believes her son is innocent,
listen to what she told radio station WAAF in Boston.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE RADIO HOST(1): Who do you think killed Teresa?
DOLORES AVERY: I do not know. But, I wished the person would get -- come forward. But, I do not think she is even dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE RADIO HOST (1): Really?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE RADIO HOST (2): Oh, really?
DOLORES AVERY: I do not think so. There are so many of them say that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE RADIO HOST (1): Do you believe -- so do you believe that she cooperated with the police in a conspiracy to set your son up?
DOLORES AVERY: It could be.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE RADIO HOST: What do you want people who are upset about your son to do?
DOLORES AVERY: Get him out. He belongs out. He do not belong in there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATTS: A mother is hope. Back with Judy, Lisa, Segun, and David. And, she is still alive. That is what the mother believes. David, is
Teresa Halbach been hanging out some place in Barbados? I mean, what is your thought?
[21:50:00] ARNOLD: Maybe she was hanging out with El Chapo all this time. Now, that he is caught, she got to go hang out with somebody else.
That is a poor mother`s endless hope for anything.
You know, what I mean? Like I have never seen that kind of -- My mother would have given me away. They could have just called my mother and
she would be like, "Yes, he probably did it."
(LAUGHING)
BLOOM: You know, I think --
WATTS: Yes. Lisa, you are a mom here.
BLOOM: Yes.
WATTS: I really want to hear, because you look at this woman and you just say this poor mother. I mean is she delusional? Is she just doing
what mothers do? Standing by her child?
BLOOM: Now, Dolores Avery I think is one of the saddest figures in this whole documentary. You just want to reach through the screen and hug
her. And, she has the mother`s unconditional love. Of course, she wants to believe her son is innocent. Everybody has conspired. Maybe the victim
is not even dead.
I think we have to be sensitive to the victim`s family too, though. I mean, unfortunately, Teresa Halbach is deceased. Her bone fragments were
found. They were introduced into evidence. She is deceased. And, for somebody to sort of be so light about that is really disrespectful I think
to the victim`s family.
ODUOLOWU: This is the issue with moms and parents in general in today`s society. The disbelief in what their kids are actually capable of.
We saw this with the affluenza mom. We are seeing this now with Dolores. Like you have to recognize what your kids are or what they are capable of,
and stop suspending disbelief. Stop, "Oh, my kid is an angel."
See them for what they really are. And, now maybe more of these things would not happen. But maybe we can move on and everybody can heal.
Maybe this documentary does not get made, and she sees her son for what he really is.
BLOOM: But, if Dolores --
WATTS: But, let us take a look at this, because this is how far she is going. She not only believes that the victim is still alive. She not
only believes that her son is innocent, she is -- well, take a look at this. Steven Avery`s mother Dolores in the final episode of "Making a
Murderer."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DOLORES AVERY: I am sticking by Steven. I picked this house out for Steven when he gets out. So, he got somewhere to live. Looks like a
pretty nice house. It is got fruit trees in there. And, half of his life is gone when he spent half of it in the prisons for something he do not
even do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATTS: You know, Dr. Drew would want us to take a close look at the psychological aspect of this, Judy. So, please, just what would you say?
What is going on in this woman`s brain?
HO: Well, Dolores has not made any progress in moving on. And, she is doing a disservice to herself, because she is really in denial. She is
not living in reality. And, the reality is her son is in prison. And, she needs to make peace with that and start moving past it.
And, even if she believes in her son`s innocence because of that unconditional love, she needs to also look at her own behaviors and her own
observations of her son as he was growing up. There were patterns. There were things. There were times to possibly intervene.
And, for whatever reason, maybe she did not have the resources, she did not. I am not saying that we should blame her. But, I am saying she
needs to recognize that there were patterns. There are some issues with her son whether or not he is a murderer or not, and she needs to make peace
with that and start getting the help she needs to move forward.
WATTS: Yes. But killing the animals and setting fire there was so much that was left out.
HO: Yes.
WATTS: But, either way, like you say, Lisa, on both sides, this is a horribly, horribly tragic story.
BLOOM: Yes.
WATTS: We will be right back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CAPTION)
"Teresa Halbach`s charred remains were discovered on Steven Avery`s property in November 2005."
"His parents believe police set him up."
(END VIDEO CAPTION)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALLAN AVERY, STEVEN AVERY`S FATHER: They had Stevie picked, as far as I am concerned, right away. They set him up, right from the beginning.
But they said, "Oh, he is not no suspect." What was he? They did not find nothing down that trailer for three or four days. Then all of a sudden,
stuff start -- "Oh, we found this and we found that."
(END VIDEO CLIP) . WATTS: Such a tragic story. Welcome back. I am Rolonda Watts
sitting in for Dr. Drew tonight. Ken Kratz is the prosecutor who helped put away Steven Avery for life. He says "Making a Murderer" is, quote,
"Defense advocacy piece." That is what he calls it. A lot of people agree with him. The film`s producers reacted on ABC`s "Nightline." Here is what
they had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAURA RICCIARDI, NETFLIX PRODUCER OF "MAKING A MURDERER": I disagree with Ken Kratz. It would be impossible for us to include all of the
evidence that was presented at trial. That is called a trial. What we made was a documentary.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATTS: What they made was a documentary. People have got to know the difference. This is not a trial. This was a documentary. So much
evidence left out. Segun, this was one-sided. We all know that.
ODUOLOWU: It was skewed one-sided. They believe that he was framed and they made a documentary showing that this guy was framed. That is what
the documentarians truly believe.
BLOOM: But, Ken Kratz is one to talk. OK? This guy is who is now a defense attorney. Why is not he a prosecutor anymore? Oh, because he was
sending sexually suggestive texts to a domestic violence victim. I mean this is a guy who has a lot to answer for in terms of his behavior in the
case. I do not know if Steven Avery is innocent or guilty, but Ken Kratz really crossed the line and in my opinion committed prosecutorial
misconduct.
WATTS: What I also think about this is that these documentarians spent ten years with these folks. If you do not think there is some
affection that had grown over those ten years --
HO: Absolutely.
WATTS: We are going to get your son out. We are going to do this. They had to be a part of that.
HO: Absolutely. There is attachment too. They spent ten years of their life building this. This is their baby in a way. So, they are going
to get attached to the subjects that they are interviewing.
ARNOLD: When I watched it, that is what I felt. I felt like he was innocent. Like we were watching -- I could not believe when they said
guilty. I was just like, this is terrible.
WATTS: And, guess what? This story is going to go on and on. Face it. They are facing life. So, who knows when this story will end. Thank
you so much for being with us. What a great team. DVR us, then watch us any time. Thank you so much to Dr. Drew for letting me take his chair
tonight. Have a beautiful night. Thanks for joining us.
[22:00:00] (MUSIC PLAYING)
END
