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Dr. Drew
Jodi Arias Audio From Behind Bars; Donald Trump Expanding Lead Going into the Iowa Caucuses; Toxic Tap Water In Flint, Michigan: Hair Loss, Rashes, Many Different Health Symptoms Reported. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired January 26, 2016 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:14] DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Breaking news in the Jodi Arias case. Radar Online just posted behind bars audio that reveals a lot about
the killer`s life in prison. It is a phone call between Jodi Arias and a rapper, Kareem "Lefty" Williams. Of course, why would not those two be
talking? He produced a song that defends her and is supposed to be raising awareness about domestic violence. Good idea. Have a listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
JODI ARIAS, CONVICTED OF FIRST-DEGREE MURDER OF HER EX-BOYFRIEND: OK, so some people have written me about the video. So, did you release it?
KAREEM "LEFTY" WILLIAMS, RAPPER: Yes. I released it on Tuesday.
ARIAS: Uh-huh.
WILLIAMS: I got a pretty good response. A lot of hate. A lot, a lot of hate --
ARIAS: Oh, yeah. Haters are going to hate.
(LAUGHING)
WILLIAMS: I think -- I think me and you are probably the most hated man and woman on Earth right now, honestly.
(LAUGHING)
ARIAS: It is all good. If this is what it is like to be hated, keep hating. I have had so much love coming in my direction, I cannot even
respond to it all.
(LAUGHING)
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PINSKY: Fantastic, Jodi. She was sentenced to life in prison for murdering Travis Alexander. If you remember, she hot him, stabbed him
multiple times. Joining me, Lisa Bloom, Civil Rights Lawyer at the Bloom Firm and Legal Analyst for Avvo.com. Mike Slater, radio talk show host,
KFMB in San Diego and Darren Kavinoky, Attorney, host of "Deadly Sins" on Investigation Discovery. Darren, you were with us through a lot of this
case.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
DARREN KAVINOKY, ATTORNEY: Yes.
PINSKY: What is life behind bars supposed to be like for somebody, who shot -- you know, in a premeditated fashion --
KAVINOKY: Right.
PINSKY: Stalked, shot, stabbed a defenseless man?
KAVINOKY: Yes. Well, but we are at a point in this case where it is no longer about the case and really the question is --
PINSKY: What does that mean?
KAVINOKY: Well, she has already been tried and convicted and sentenced. So, now the only issue really is what are our prisons for and how are
people to be treated there? Because there is so much outrage over the idea that she is enjoying these creature comforts that she is laughing as she is
having this phone call and of course, Travis does not get to enjoy a laugh, Travis does not get to enjoy --
PINSKY: So, what is your point?
KAVINOKY: So, the point is we really need to ask ourselves the question when we are looking at the outrage about this, what are prisons to be for?
Is it to be nothing but punishment in the worst environment possible or are we leaving people with dignity?
And, if the answer is, we are not going to leave people with dignity, we are going to punish them to the maximum amount possible and make their life
there as horrific as possible, I am just saying you may not like the results. And, I say this not as a lover of Jodi Arias --
PINSKY: Well, where is the result? What is the result? Jodi Arias is not coming out, right? She was a psychopath. She has a severe personality.
She is psychopathy.
LISA BLOOM, CIVIL RIGHTS LAWYER AND LEGAL ANALYST: Yes.
PINSKY: And, she is a premeditated killer.
BLOOM: Yes, and that is on a good day. So, Jodi Arias --
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: That is Jodi`s best.
BLOOM: But, here is what gets me about this is I usually cover these cases where a male convicted murderer gets love letters from all these women and
I think, "Oh, my gender, what is happening?"
Well, now, the tables are turned and Jodi Arias has this rapper taking up her cause. And, she is talking about how all the love is coming her way.
I mean, what is up with him?
PINSKY: Yes.
BLOOM: Is not he the one that needs to get his head examined?
PINSKY: Well --
KAVINOKY: Lisa, you are applying normal logic to Jodi Arias` crazy world.
PINSKY: No. That is right. I spent a lot of time when we are looking at this case. Reminding you, do not imagine her head works like yours does.
KAVINOKY: Right.
PINSKY: No. No --
KAVINOKY: Truthfully, yes.
PINSKY: Now, imagine this rapper fellow trying with some issues himself.
BLOOM: She is a pretty woman.
PINSKY: Yes.
BLOOM: And, he is probably attracted to her --
PINSKY: Does he get --
BLOOM: They have a relationship --
PINSKY: Do they? Does he got conjugal visit?
PINSKY: God, I hope not.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Well, this is the first we have heard in Jody in many, many years. I am going to show you -- let you listen to an exchange in which Lefty
tells Jodi in about -- in addition to haters hating, also about the public`s reaction to the music video. Listen to this, of course, again
from Radar Online.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: As far as the video, they always try to take you out the picture. I am like "No, if it was not for her, there would not be a song."
ARIAS: Right.
WILLIAMS: "So, how can you take her out of the picture?" You know what I mean?
ARIAS: Yes, yes. I mean -- yes, it does not need to revolve around me. But, yes, keep the focus where it belongs, focus on PTSD and domestic
violence, but yes I agree with you.
WILLIAMS: So, it is like that is really, really the frustrating part sometimes.
ARIAS: Yes.
WILLIAMS: Dealing with that. But other than that, like --
ARIAS: Yes.
WILLIAMS: Anyway, they get really angry when I call you my little sister. They get pissed at that.
(LAUGHING)
ARIAS: What? Wait, what? Why do they even care?
(LAUGHING)
WILLIAMS: I do not know. Because I guess they quote unquote, "They want me to be in love with you" like a crazy freak fan, so --
(LAUGHING)
[21:05:00] ARIAS: Oh, I know huh. Well too bad you do not fit there, in their mold.
(LAUGHING)
WILLIAMS: Right.
ARIAS: All right, well, just keep on being important to them.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PINSKY: A reminder, this is brand-new audio that radar online just put online, where we are taking a piece of here. I do not know about you, does
anybody else get the chills when they listen to this? Because, it reminded me of the weird sex tapes that she had when she was manipulating Travis.
BLOOM: Yes.
PINSKY: And, number two, if you remember when she was sort of being held, the guards were not even allowed to have contact with her because she was
presumed to be so manipulative --
BLOOM: Uh-huh.
PINSKY: That she can --
KAVINOKY: Her powers were so strong.
PINSKY: She is such -- you are right. She is like the plant that will --
BLOOM: She is still doing it behind bars with this guy, right?
PINSKY: And, here is the other point I want to make. At the death penalty trial, she begged for her life saying she would get a job in prison. But,
Lefty told later -- the rapper, told radar online she does not have a job and she gets whatever she wants from a commissary. Does that means she is
getting from somebody?
BLOOM: So, what a shock? Jodi Arias is a big liar, right? Which is what we learned at her trial.
PINSKY: Yes.
BLOOM: When she lied and lied and lied. She told different stories about Travis. "Oh, I do not know how he died. Oh, wait! Yes, I was there. Oh,
yes! Actually, I am the one who killed him, but it was in self-defense." And, for her to even be talking about PTSD and domestic violence is really
a slap in the face to the victim.
KAVINOKY: I am sure the people that are really concerned about those legitimate issues are like, "Yeah, hey, Jodi, thanks. But, we got it from
here."
PINSKY: And, even I, Mike, made some concession that, oh, maybe she was -- you know, it takes two, you know -- and maybe she did have PTSD and maybe
blacked out or red out or something, but she had a psychopathic quality about her that was chilling.
BLOOM: She stalked him.
PINSKY: Listen. I get it. Trust me. Even though I was one trying to understand to make sense of everything, and people hated me for even
suggesting that it was anything other than a maniac.
MIKE SLATER, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: And, it is interesting that the amount of leeway perhaps she has given in prison to communicate with the outside
world in different ways. And, I do want to say one thing, I know Jodi Arias, so, please do not misinterpret this. But, you talked about dignity
in prison a moment ago.
PINSKY: Yes.
SLATER: If, and I think when they play this later -- if the highlight of her day is caramelized onions, then that is OK. It is not the best, but
she can enjoy the outside world. She cannot sit on the Dr. Drew show audience.
PINSKY: Well --
SLATER: She is not a free woman, and that is good enough.
PINSKY: Let me show you where she apparently gets to consume a good deal of media in prison. Listen to this. This is another piece from Radar
Online.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: What T.V. stations do you get?
ARIAS: I get the Spanish Channel. It is Univision. Well, I am not saying it right. And, I get "Freeform," which is formerly ABC family. I get ABC,
CBS. Let us see, PBS. Let us see what else, Fox, BET. I get CNN, CMT, USA, Lifetime, A&E and BYU and also I get -- there is a Catholic station
and a Protestant station that comes in.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PINSKY: And, if you recall she never had any affection for HLN. She left that off. Let me get from the audience. Yes, sir --
(LAUGHING)
KAVINOKY: She banned us off.
PINSKY: Well, it may be. She just left us off. Yes, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hey, Dr. Drew, I was just trying to understand why are we covering this now? Why is she important to us this
far from her whole case?
PINSKY: You know why? Because why I am airing it is there is a deep fascination with this woman. I had people -- to me it was an opportunity
to talk about certain kinds of pathologies and really evaluate things and talk about things that I think when the day is done had more than just the
intrigue of the horrible story.
It had some educational purpose and so it refocuses back on it. And, you know, we are not going to spend -- I will tell you what, we are not going
to spend any more time on this, though. We will move on. How about that? Darren, last comment.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING AND LAUGHING)
KAVINOKY: It is amazing, though, it brings me back.
PINSKY: It does, does not it?
KAVINOKY: This conversation brings me back to a time when Jodi Arias, both -- at trials one and two captivated, not just the national landscape, but
international landscape. And, there is something about these cases that keeps coming up. The "Making A Murderer" show.
PINSKY: Well, the whole -- the whole --
KAVINOKY: And, that carry on these stories.
PINSKY: Right, the whole murder porn genre, Darren
(LAUGHING)
KAVINOKY: Thank you.
PINSKY: Thank you, Jodi Arias. We are going to look into this. We may have some more tomorrow if there is more to be told about or learned from
it. We will get a good look at it. It is just this was breaking news, we thought we would share with you, guys.
But, next up, can anyone beat Donald Trump? Poll numbers keep going higher, so high that -- well, he says he can shoot somebody on 5th Avenue.
He also does not need to take part in the debate on Thursday. He is opting out. We are back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING AND CHEERING)
[21:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: People love me, you know, they want to stay with me. They are loyal. They are tired of seeing our
country being pushed around and led by people that are stupid people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: The establishment republicans in the United States right now are beside themselves.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They enjoy the debates. I have done well in the debates. Every single poll has said I won every debate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: He still seems to be quite low on detail, high on hyperbole.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Bottom line, I will do a number on ISIS like you would not believe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: He is very vague in what he would actually do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I am really good at this stuff. We will make our country so rich again, so strong again. We are going to do it. We cannot put these people
in. They do not know what they are doing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Donald Trump expanding as already big lead going into the Iowa caucuses. Tonight, we want to know, is there anyone that can actually top
Mr. Donald Trump. Before I introduce my guest, I want to officially welcome Donald Trump onto the set any time. I will make arrangements on
anytime you want to be a part of this program.
(AUDIENCE CHEERING AND APPLAUDING)
OMAROSA MANIGAULT, FORMER CONTESTANT OF "THE APPRENTICE" REALITY SHOW: Yes.
PINSKY: And, with that in mind, I want to welcome someone from your team Omarosa, she is a former contestant on "The Apprentice." She is a Trump
supporter. I have seen her side by side with him recently, in fact. Welcome. Lisa, who is not a Trump fan is still with us.
And Mike, who will vote for the republican nominee, whomever it is and Ernie White, who is backing the billionaire. And, tonight, Trump says he
will not do the republican debate, Thursday, on Fox. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[21:15:00] TRUMP: Fox is going to make a fortune. I told Fox you should give money to the wounded warriors. I am not a fan of Megyn Kelly. I
think she is a third-rate reporter. I think she frankly is not good at what she does. And, I think they can do a lot better than Megan Kelly.
And, so, I am going to be making a decision with Fox, but I probably will not bother doing the debate.
I see they picked me as number one, not only number one, number one by far but probably I will not be doing the debate. I am going to have something
else in Iowa. We will do something where we raise money for the veterans and the wounded warriors. We are going to do something simultaneously with
the debate. But, mostly, I am not going to do the debate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Omarosa, is this going to be a gaffe or genius move?
MANIGAULT: It is brilliant. I mean think about it. He is going to have an event on another network at the same time --
PINSKY: Only if that other network were HLN or CNN, maybe then it genius. That is to be fair.
(LAUGHING)
MANIGAULT: But, the best part is he is going to raise money for veterans and that really shows that he is ready to be commander in chief.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Lisa, go for it.
BLOOM: Oh my God, are you kidding me? He is one of the richest men in America. If he wants to donate a million or billion, God bless.
MANIGAULT: He has done that.
BLOOM: But, this is not just about ratings. This is not just about money. This is actually an election for our president and he should show up. If
he is afraid of Megyn Kelly -- if you are afraid of Megyn Kelly asking you a couple tough questions, you are not fit to be president of the United
States.
PINSKY: Well, but, Mike, Mike -- you know what everyone likes about his move is that he is pushing the press around. People like to see people
have control --
SLATER: Of course. He dominated the cycle again.
PINSKY: He said something today, where they asked him about Plan B, whether it was an abortion pill or not. Let me just quickly add -- Mr.
Trump, not an abortion pill. It suppresses ovulation. It is like birth control pill. You take before sex. Just take in the morning-after pill.
So, is it an abortion pill, Plan B, not an abortion pill. Just answers -- not an abortion pill. That is it.
SLATER: This is a power move. Everything in this campaign is about strength versus weakness. And, you look how he framed not doing this
debate. He says, "Why would I want to be on this debate stage with a bunch of people who have zero percent? They are a bunch of losers. Why would I
want to be up there with them, anyway? I got more important things to do. We are going to help our veterans." It is such a power move.
MANIGAULT: Right.
PINSKY: Ernie, agree?
ERNIE WHITE, CIVIL RIGHT ACTIVIST: I think it is the most powerful move, and I am very excited. I am fired up about it. I mean, Omarosa and I, we
were in the back. We just could not stop just cheering each other. It is unbelievable. Today is the day --
BLOOM: But, we should not --
WHITE: Today is the day that that candidate tells the media --
BLOOM: -- we should not be cheering for a president to have power over the media.
WHITE: He tells the media.
BLOOM: No. The media --
WHITE: He tells everybody else to go shove it.
PINSKY: One at a time.
WHITE: America is about to change.
MANIGAULT: You cannot be that naive. You cannot be that naive.
BLOOM: You should not be calling the media to shove it.
PINSKY: One at a time.
MANIGAULT: You cannot be that naive.
PINSKY: What I like about Omarosa and Ernie is that they represent the average Trump voter, which we keep hearing is male, white, under educated,
right? Is not that you guys?
(LAUGHING)
MANIGAULT: No. That is not us.
PINSKY: No? It is interesting. Yes, ma`am?
SEGMET CHIBAKA (PH), STUDIO AUDIENCE MEMBER: I am African-American. I am Segmet Chibaka (ph). And, you know what? If you do not got no haters, you
not popping especially if you are trying to do something right. And, I am going to tell you something. I thank him -- I thank him for dropping out
of this debate, because you know, why join your haters when you got people that got your back? You know what I am saying?
So, that is why he is winning because of all about energy. They cannot win. And , you know what? I love what he is doing with the Muslims
getting out the country, because if they really knew what that was about -- If they knew that that was about freedom. It was about freedom versus
enslavement. So, anyway, I am for Donald Trump because he is going to make a difference and we need some difference right now. We need some
difference right now.
SLATER: Stop.
BLOOM: Stop.
PINSKY: I get it, somebody who looks just like what people keep describing.
BLOOM: Right.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Arizona Sheriff Joe Arpaio endorsed Mr. Trump tonight. He, the sheriff, has been called America`s toughest sheriff because of his hard
line stance against illegal immigration and criminal justice. He has been reelected six times since 1992.
He is a controversial figure. Arpaio and his deputies have been accused of violating the constitutional rights of Latinos by targeting them in raids.
The cases are ongoing. You have heard about Arpaio, Lisa, no doubt.
BLOOM: Absolutely. You know, more trampling on citizens` constitutional rights. I guess Donald Trump is showing power against people of color,
against immigrants, against women. You know, by the way, what did Megyn Kelly do? She called him out on his actual incidents of sexism. She
called him out on his actual quotes and then he said, she was menstruating, right?
MANIGAULT: He never said that. If you are going to say what he said --
BLOOM: He said she is bleeding from whatever.
PINSKY: One at a time.
MANIGAULT: He never said that word. He may be very clear, what triggered him pulling away from the debates had nothing to do with Megyn Kelly. It
was all about this press release that Fox decided to release this afternoon taunting him.
PINSKY: He could say, it was Roger Ailes` proble.
MANIGAULT: Absolutely.
PINSKY: He is the head of Fox News, who was doing something. What did he do?
MANIGAULT: You know what? He sent a press release that it was so petty and so beneath a network head to do and Donald Trump made the wise decision
to play at his terms on his time and serve the veterans. So, that is a win-win situation.
BLOOM: So, he can ditch it out, but he cannot take it.
PINSKY: And, Ernie, the other crazy thing, when I was listening to the Fox Business debates, the last set of republican debates, I heard them all
talking about controlling the border. It was weird. I talked to Ann Coulter about it today of all people.
And, Ann Coulter felt that they were championing her position, almost all the republican candidates, which was they were making fun of it before. It
is interesting how this conversation has evolved. I am not taking sides at all, but I am just saying if the conversation has evolved since Trump first
threw the polemic out about a wall.
[21:20:00] WHITE: You know, it was interesting how the crowd booed the woman speaking because apparently they are for socialism. They are for
Marxism and they are for communism. If they do not know what those are, they need to go to look at up.
Trump was talking about securing the border, stopping illegal immigration. When we are talking about Islam, even Fericon, you do not let the Syrian
refugees in, because these people are upset with America. Why would you bring in more people?
PINSKY: Yes, sir.
JULIO SANCHEZ (PH), STUDIO AUDIENCE MEMBER: I am Julio Sanchez (ph). Thank you, guys. If Donald Trump is afraid of Megyn Kelly --
MANIGAULT: He is not afraid.
BLOOM: Yes, he is.
MANIGAULT: Tell it like it is.
SANCHEZ: Well, what is he going to do when we have real enemies?
BLOOM: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Is he going to pull out of that, out of fear because he is on the spot?
BLOOM: That is right.
SANCHEZ: I just do not agree with someone that is going to just pull out.
PINSKY: Pull out. Mike.
SLATER: I said something to Donald Trump in person a couple months ago --
PINSKY: In person?
SLATER: Yes. About two months ago, I did a 90-minute interview with him.
PINSKY: You did?
SLATER: Yes.
PINSKY: How was that?
SLATER: It was fantastic.
PINSKY: What did you take away?
SLATER: I talked to him 10 minutes before the 90 minutes. 90 minutes on air and 20 minutes after.
PINSKY: Wow!
SLATER: He is the same person the whole time. Arrogant.
PINSKY: That is a good thing.
SLATER: But warm, generous, kind, welcoming, all the things that great negotiators and businessmen are. On this point about being scared about
Megyn Kelly, the next power move is what Ted Cruz just did, which is challenge Donald to a 90-minute one on one no moderator debate Lincoln
Douglas style. If he says no to that, then he is scared of Ted Cruz.
MANIGAULT: Why would he want to debate with a Canadian citizen?
PINSKY: We will talk about Ted Cruz. We will talk about their relationship at the next block. We will keep this conversation going.
And, later on, the public water supply in Flint, Michigan is toxic. What are people doing about it? Is it environmental racism? Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MONICA LANGLEY, SENIOR SPECIAL WRITER, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL: He is very -- a solitary figure. He is very calm. He is very measured. He thinks
through everything and unlike most politics who have message gurus or people telling them what to say, he does it all himself in a very
calculated fashion.
He gets out a single sheet of paper. He jots down 15 words. Five points and then that is all it is and he goes and talks about those issues that is
the way he works, and he does it himself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I want to revisit what you just heard there in that report. There is no tell prompter. There are no speechwriters. Trump just at the mic.
He scribbles down a few words and starts speaking. Take a look at this photo of one of his handwritten talking points from his speech in New
Hampshire.
There it is. He just writes down self-funding, Super PACs, Syrian refugees, second amendment, Hillary Clinton a disaster, stock market and
then he just goes. I am back with Omarosa, Lisa, Mike and Ernie.
And, I hear these rallies are like nothing -- people that go to them that are people you are custom to covering these rallies will tell me that they
are like nothing they have seen before, that he is just there sort of talking off the top of his head and then interacting with the audience.
You have been to a few of these.
MANIGAULT: Yes. Is not it refreshing to have a politician that does not have to have a focus group or poll to tell him what to talk about at a
rally. These are his supporters. He truly comes from the heart. He talks about issues that they want to hear and that is why he is connecting with
voters one on one.
BLOOM: But, let us talk about what he is authentic about. He does not believe in climate change. He does not believe in science, in other words.
He does not think women should have the right to choose abortion even though one in three women in America has had an abortion.
I guess they should all be rounded up and taken to prison. I mean we do not talk about his positions enough. Yes, he is refreshing but, you know,
he got his little list like he is a 5-year-old, "Oh, so impressive and he can talk about four things."
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
SLATER: Lisa. OK. Take politics out of it. The key to persuasion, identity beats analogy, analogy beats reason, reason beats nothing. You
just appealed to reason. That does not appeal to anything. Donald Trump gets up there for 90 minutes and appeals to the identity of every single
person in that audience, which is why he can do no wrong.
PINSKY: What do you mean? We need to win --
SLATER: "Strong! We are winners. They are losers. We are going to beat around the world. You lost your job because we are making bad deals, vote
for me." He is someone, who can complain about never being allowed to ride in a Rolls Royce anymore once he is president. And, person with the Chevy
Silverado is tanking it up, because they connect with Donald Trump on identity emotional deep level.
PINSKY: And, when you -- you had another point to make about when you spoke to him on the radio, right?
SLATER: Yes, I spoke to him in person about it.
PINSKY: Yes.
SLATER: And, I said -- it was before the CNN debate and he was debating not to do it or not. I said, "Do not do it. Do not do it."
PINSKY: Do not do the debate.
SLATER: I said, do not it. I said, it is a power move, same reason we are just talking about.
PINSKY: So, you became a Trump advisor.
SLATER: It was really a weird moment, right?
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Yes.
SLATER: So, then his actual Trump advisor stayed quiet and then he goes, "All right." And, he looks up them and says, "What should I do?" And,
they said, "You have to do it. You have to do it."
And, he said, "You are right, they are going to call me a chicken just like the guy in the audience. They are going to call me a chicken and scared
and I am not scared." But, he said -- today, he has won the last six debates by a long shot --
BLOOM: No, he has not --
SLATER: That is what he said. It does not matter what is in our minds --
(CROSSTALK)
MANIGAULT: Oh my God!
BLOOM: Look, in his mind he is the best at everything.
SLATER: Of course.
BLOOM: But, he has not yet won a single election.
MANIGAULT: I want to say something.
BLOOM: Let us keep that in mind.
PINSKY: Ernie.
WHITE: I want to talk about -- I want to go back to what Lisa just said about climate change.
PINSKY: Yes.
WHITE: If he said he believes in manmade climate change, at that point he would lose everybody because that is still up for discussion.
BLOOM: No, it is not.
WHITE: Their side wants to pretend like manmade climate change. The science is over --
PINSKY: Hold on. Let us clarify what you are saying. He is not saying climate change has not happened. He is saying the man`s contribution --
BLOOM: No. He said climate change with the Chinese conspiracy.
PINSKY: But this what --
(LAUGHING)
BLOOM: That is what he said.
PINSKY: But, this is what Ernie is saying. So, Ernie is saying that it is a political move, right? The climate change is happening but man`s
contribution --
(CROSSTALKS)
BLOOM: If it is a political movement, why it is happening?
WHITE: I am from Chicago. I am from Chicago. We had four seasons. It is called climate change.
BLOOM: No. I am sorry, that is not it is.
WHITE: Yes, it is. That is what climate change is.
BLOOM: The science is --
STUDIO AUDIENCE MEMBERS: No!
PINSKY: Hold on.
WHITE: Why would you a lawyer say the science is settled. The science is not settled.
BLOOM: Have you read --
SLATER: Guys, this is a fine conversation, but none of this matters. It is about identity --
[21:30:00] WHITE: It does matter because Donald Trump and the other candidates do not agree with your settled science.
PINSKY: From the audience, yes, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I would just like to make an important fact about Donald Trump and that is a lot of people think he is
disconnected from the African-American community, when in fact he has been around for a long time. You may hear him mention, you know, stars today
like Kanye West or something.
But, for example, he was an inspiration to hip-hop mogul, Richard Simmons and his brother Run DMC, took him on flights on their plane, inspired him
to become businessmen and he had this hip-hop name. They called him Richy Rich, you know? And, he has been connected. I think he is a very
intelligent man. He maybe not as savvy as everybody wants him to be as far as public speaking, but I think he is an intelligent guy.
PINSKY: All right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: And, I think we should give him a go.
PINSKY: OK. There is another black man who is saying --
BLOOM: He also -- Donald Trump also said he does not want black people managing money. Look it up. Yes, it is.
SLATER: I never heard that.
BLOOM: Yes, it is. Look it up. I tweeted the quote.
MANIGAULT: How can you pull up a made-up quote?
BLOOM: It is not made up. He said it.
MANIGAULT: That is a totally made-up. Are you kidding me?
PINSKY: All right. Let us get -- he is also not letting go of Ted Cruz beiung born -- or having been born in Canada. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: He got a problem with his Canadian birth. He was born in Canada. It is a real question. 36 percent of the people agree that he cannot run
for president. He was born in Canada, and he was born on Canadian soil. Now, he cannot run for Prime Minister of Canada, but I do not think he can
-- I honestly do not know if he can run.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So, Earnie, the birther thing again, is that going to far? Is that going to work against him?
WHITE: I do not think it is going to work against him. As a matter of fact, I want to know, why is it that everybody went after Obama when they
said he was born in Kenya, but they are not going after Cruz when they find out he is born in Canada?
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Mike, you do not think about that?
SLATER: Well, it is a conversation. But, again, just to go to the optics and how Trump is framing this all, it is brilliant because all he does is
toss it up and then run away. And, that is all it takes and he commands another media cycle.
MANIGAULT: Well, the question is why did Cruz wait until 2014 to denounce his Canadian citizenship?
PINSKY: Yes.
MANIGAULT: I mean 2014. Ample opportunity to announce his citizenship in Canada long before that.
PINSKY: Did he says he forgot or something.
MANIGAULT: He said he forgot that he was born in Canada.
BLOOM: No, because he has no reason to until he was running for president.
PINSKY: All right. Now, another sort of wrinkle in the story. Former New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg is considering running in a third-party
candidacy. He is willing to spend a billion dollars to do it. Listen to Mr. Trump`s reaction to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I beat him and I would love him to do it, actually. I love the competition. I love the competition. I would love for Michael to do it.
You know, we used to be friends. I guess we are not friends anymore. I do not think we are, but we used to be friends. Good friends.
When he had a problem -- he had a big problem in the Bronx, I cleared up the problem. That was a big project that was -- they were unable to get it
built. It was under construction for like 25 years, way, way over budget. I took it over. I got it knocked up in one year. Now, it is a tremendous
success.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: It is interesting way of thinking, right? You are my friend unless you run against me then you might have.
MANIGAULT: Well, he was. I mean he came on "The Apprentice" season seven.
PINSKY: Bloomberg?
MANIGAULT: Yes. And, he was supporting everything that Trump was doing. And, in fact he came there to raise money with charity with Donald Trump.
So, when he says I guess he was my friend is because we have seen him on camera out in the community with Donald Trump.
PINSKY: But is not the Bloomberg run going to be more about Bernie Sanders?
BLOOM: Yes. Listen. Of course, he loves it.
PINSKY: Is not more against Bernie?
BLOOM: He loves it not because of the competition but because it will split the democrats and will help the republicans.
PINSKY: Yes, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: You opened your show with a question. You said, "Can anyone beat Donald Trump?"
PINSKY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: My answer is no on the right. However, but Queen Hillary Clinton and Vice President Bernie Sanders are going to
spank him.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: All right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: One quick point. It is a power move for him to do his own separate thing --
PINSKY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: -- when he had the republican debate because it separates the establishment from the people.
PINSKY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: The people will follow. I am for him to win the right. Queen Hillary is going to spank his ass.
(LAUGHING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: It is interesting the spanking in the general election. One thing I am getting at all of this, though, is I am tired of bureaucracies. I am
tired of part of bureaucracy. I am tired of government bureaucracies.
Let us remind ourselves what the Soviet Union was. It was a bunch of local bureaucracies loosely held together in a union. That is what we have in
our party system. It is nuts that we have so much bureaucracy in all levels and what is the difference between totalitarianism and bureaucracy?
Nothing. So, just keep that in mind as you cast your votes this year. We got so much bureaucracy in this country.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
Next up, toxic tap water in Flint, Michigan. Hair loss, rashes, many different health symptoms reported. We will tell you what is going on
there tonight. Back after this.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: They so concerned with pointing fingers, who did it? Who did not do it? Who knew it? Who did not know? It does not
matter now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That woman from Flint, Michigan. In Flint, Michigan, the tap water is toxic and residents are crying foul. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: The water flowing from their taps looks, smells and tastes funny.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Smell like toilet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: About two years ago, the financially strapped city of Flint, Michigann switched to a cheaper water supply, the
Flint River; notorious for its nastiness.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: The water would come in brown and my daughter was like, mom -- you know, the tub. You know, to take a bath. "Why is the
water brown?"
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: The story remained a local one until last August when a pediatrician noticed that the levels of lead in children`s
blood had doubled, even tripled. She spoke out and the nation took notice. Last October, the water was switched back to a safe source, but it was too
late.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Joining me, Vanessa Barnett, HipHollywood.com. Vanessa grew up in Flint, Michigan. She has a very emotional story to tell as it pertains to
this particular story. Back with Lisa, Mike, Earnie. Vanessa, what is your take?
[21:40:00] VANESSA BARNETT, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Already.
PINSKY: Imagine you have a little girl --
BARNETT: I do have a little girl.
PINSKY: Imagine, you took her to the pediatrician. You are living in Flint back. You grew up in Flint, right?
BARNETT: I grew up in Flint. I lived in Flint my entire life almost. My family is still there. My grandparents are there. My daughter was just
there. She took a bath in that water and completely broke out. You know, and that was just this past October.
PINSKY: Was she drinking the water?
BARNETT: No. At that point, everyone had stopped drinking the water. But, this was after they made the switch back and they are telling the
residents, "Hey, it is OK. You can drink the water." And, it is still not safe. And, so, seeing that I am not only upset. I am not only pissed off
but I am emotional because that is my family. That is my home and people are just lying to them with reckless abandon for their lives, for their
livelihood, for the future of those kids.
So, when those kids have developmental issues or health issues in the future or all these problems that can come from lead poisoning, and people
just forget that this happened, you look 15 years down the line, and you are going to throw these kids in detention centers or you are going to
label these kids as rejects because you are not going to remember that the government poisoned these kids. And, it is their fault and they are not
helping them. It is B.S.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: You know, Lisa, usual, Vanessa has a way of cutting through both on an emotional level, but her points are well taken. It is children that
get hurt by this. And, my question to you is, is it the governments? Are they guilty of something or are these old pipes that got away from
somebody, the water supply were -- I do not know how they are organized. What is their water and power like? Is there somebody asleep at the wheel?
BLOOM: Yes.
PINSKY: Is that the government`s responsibility?
BLOOM: Yes, to all of those questions. They are, because for two years they have been complaining about it, the residents have. And, the
government water quality people have said it is fine. It is fine.
WHITE: How could they not have tested it?
BLOOM: Let me drink a glass of water. We do not need to test it.
BARNETT: No. The tests were there. They ignored the tests. They allegedly ignored all of the warnings. They did not add the anti corrosive
solution that you need to add to this water to make it safe. They were told all of this information and they just went ahead and did what they
thought, because it saved money. They said it was going to save a certain amount of money over X amount of years.
PINSKY: Mike?
SLATER: So, two things. First, before the break, you talked about bureaucracy, Drew.
PINSKY: Yes.
SLATER: We have an unaccountable local bureaucracy. People who support big government. It is only going to get less accountable the bigger it
gets.
PINSKY: Right. That is right.
SLATER: It is further way it goes.
PINSKY: Wait until you see what happens to health care.
SLATER: And, when the federal government controls --
PINSKY: Oh my God.
SLATER: The other point is you mentioned it is money. That was the initial thing, but Detroit -- this just came out the other day. Detroit
came back and offered the city of Flint the same water --
BARNETT: Absolutely.
SLATER: -- for 50 percent less than they were getting it.
BARNETT: Offered them six different offers.
SLATER: And, they said no because the politicians in Flint wanted to have a big infrastructure project. They wanted to take credit for creating a
big new pipe system to the new water system and have a big ribbon cutting and be celebrated for a grand jobs program. And, they did it anyway when
they could have had cheaper water like they have.
BARNETT: Absolutely.
PINSKY: Ernie.
WHITE: This all has to do with sustainable development. And, what is happening here even in California. Most of us do not realize it, but we
are starting to drink half clean water, half sewer water. The one thing that are going on right now, in California it is called, toilet to tap.
What that means is you use the bathroom, and within five to ten minutes, that water is drinkable. That is California`s new rule and regulation.
BLOOM: OK. But, that is not the same thing as lead.
WHITE: But, that is the same thing because you are feeding all people garbage and that has to stop. We need to be drinking clean water in this
country.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
BLOOM: If I may, though. There is a big difference. Let us all get real about this. If this was Beverly Hills or Manhattan or a wealthy white
neighborhood, you would not have little children being exposed to lead for two years before the government woke up.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: To that point, let me just give you demographic. Flint has about 100,000 residents, 57 percent black, 42 percent are below poverty. This is
what some people are calling environmental racism.
BARNETT: And, it absolutely is. Because also along with those facts, many people do not realize that Flint was run not by the mayor that was elected,
not by the officials elected but by an emergency manager that was put in place.
And, they have, again, reckless abandonment. They only report to the governor. They are not voted on by the people, and they just do whatever
they want because they feel like they have the last call when it comes to these cities.
PINSKY: Again, accountability.
BARNETT: And, that only happens in minority cities and cities that are in poverty.
PINSKY: It is glaring there but I think it is happening everywhere. Next up, we will keep this going back right after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MELISSA MAYS, FLINT RESIDENT: The smell was terrible. We would have yellow water, sometime blue green. Sometimes a brownish color. It just
smelled awful. It was different. We started developing rashes, hair lose, all five of us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYS: Seizures, tremors, autoimmune disorders.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYS: My middle child has bone pain. He wakes up in the middle of the night crying because his arm bones, leg bones, they hurt and there is
nothing you can do for that. My oldest, his teeth are just crumbling. So, we are not begging for bottled water. We do not want that. We want our
pipes replaced.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That was Melissa Mays, a Flint resident, talking about the water crisis in her hometown, Flint, Michigan. She says as you heard there, her
family, her children primarily the object of lead poisoning are having a multiplicity of health complaints.
Back with Vanessa, who grew up in Flint, Michigan. Her family is still there. Lisa, Mike, Ernie. And, Vanessa, you hear people saying, why do
not you just move, right? Are people saying that in Flint or people saying that to Flint residents?
[21:50:00] BARNETT: Yes. People are saying it and it is insensitive. These people -- this is their home. This is where they live. This is
their livelihood. Who has the money? Who has the resources? Who has the want, the will to just get up and leave everything they have ever known.
That is not the problem. The problem are --
PINSKY: Your family origin is still there, right?
BARNETT: Absolutely.
PINSKY: What do they say about it? What are they thinking?
BARNETT: They are frustrated. They feel like -- of course, they need the bottled water. They do not want to feel like they are begging for it.
They do not want to feel like they are handouts. And, of course, people -- you know, my family, they are able to go out and get cases and cases. But,
then think about that, as a family of two or family of four, how many cases you really need to have to survive for two years. And, on top of that --
PINSKY: Is that what it is going to take to repair the system?
BARNETT: No. This is the time that it has already been going. Just think how much longer this could last on top of the fact. They are asking Flint
residents to pay their water bills.
PINSKY: And, I want you --
BARNETT: Water they cannot use.
PINSKY: Vanessa, I am going to have you react to this following piece of tape. It is from a former lawmaker from Flint saying this crisis is being
over stated, over blown.
SLATER: Wow.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL BALLENGER, (R) FORMER MICHIGAN LAWMAKER: This is terrible publicity for Flint. It is vastly exaggerated. The percentage of children and
people affected in these tests is probably less than 2 percent. People have got to stop pointing fingers of blame and assigning culpability to
public figures and concentrate on solving the problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: All right. But, at least he wants to solve the problem, right?
BARNETTL What? Am I supposed to go in the backyard and dig my own pipes and lay some new ones? Is he serious?
BLOOM: Right.
PINSKY: Lisa.
BLOOM: Politicians who are usually to blame are the ones to say, "Let us not point the finger." "Let us not blame anyone." You know, it is called
accountability and it is important.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
SLATER: Vanessa, you said in 15 years a lot of these kids are going to have neurological disabilities --
PINSKY: That is possible. It is possible.
SLATER: Absolutely. And, people are going to forget that it started here. Look at the people in every level of government involved with this, local,
state, federal, all of those people will have their jobs if they have not been promoted --
PINSKY: Listen. People complain about the bankers not being brought to justice for the 2008 crisis. Government officials never brought to justice
for this kind of thing where people are harmed. Journalist never brought to justice when lives are lost because of things they write that these
people are insulated from the consequences. And, again, that is what bureaucracy does. It is not accountable and not human.
SLATER: And, taxpayers have to pay the liabilities on this stuff. But, wait, I do not want to get too political. But, still how can you then go
support big government, progressives and liberals, where they are just going to create these problems in every facet.
PINSKY: But, this is not a big government issue.
SLATER: Of course, it is.
BLOOM: Wait. Wait.
SLATER: I can list it off.
BLOOM: Right and left, I think we all agree that people need to be supplied with clean water, right?
SLATER: Sure. But it is the government.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
BLOOM: This is not a progressive issue.
SLATER: No. I mean the government -- the reason we have a fundamental distrust of government is stuff like this.
PINSKY: Right.
BARNETT: Absolutely.
BLOOM: Our republican government.
BARNETT: That Michigan is a red state, but Flint, Michigan is a blue city.
BLOOM: Yes.
BARNETT: And, those people do not have political power.
BLOOM: Right.
BARNETT: So, you can bring in emergency managers. You can bring in -- and Governor Snyder can say whatever he wants and evade responsibility because
he does not care about those voters, because they are not voting for him anyway, as he said.
PINSKY: And, Bernie, it is sort of a really interesting issue. I mean government is supposed to do what, right? Suppose to keep us safe. Give
us water supply and -- even the state of California fundamentally failed. Failed us in water. The response is, it is our fault.
SLATER: Yes.
PINSKY: You better conserve your fault.
SLATER: Pay up.
PINSKY: Pay up and conserve, because it is our fault that our government failed.
WHITE: And, we keep talking about bigger government. I just want to talk about this. We are talking about non-government organizations. That is
what is making government over inflated. These are non-government organizations. They are all over the country.
They are the ones that are starting to call the shots on your water. That is why in California again with sustainable development, we are drinking
dirty water. The only reason we have not gotten sick yet is because our water is full of pathogens and things like that, that you cannot get out.
You cannot get drugs out --
PINSKY: Well, you are right. Let me get that Cher quote, even she was getting into this panel. If you guys can put it up. There she is. Cher
blamed the politicians here. That is what she tweeted.
"WTF is going on with power mad, greed driven killer incompetent politicians. They are criminals! Gov. Rick Snyder of Michigan.
#FiringSquadWorksForMe." Cher in a heated moment. And, Flint residents are donating to Flint some in the form or money, others are sending bottled
water. But, they do need -- they need money to fix this problem, right? Is that the delay? They are trying to figure out how to get resources?
BLOOM: What are we? A third world country that we have to donate water to our own people?
PINSKY: Yes.
BLOOM: In a major American city. This is shameful.
SLATER: The governor compared this to hurricane Sandy. This is not a natural disaster. This is a man-made disaster.
BLOOM: That is right.
PINSKY: And, let me give you a sense of how bad it is. Levels of lead and water is measured in parts per billion. Here is a graph. Detroit water
2.3 parts per billion. That is a cause for concern. Five parts for billion is considered toxic waste.
[21:55:00] SLATER: Wow.
PINSKY: 5,000 parts per billion highest level, so far found in Flint. Thus far, 13,000 parts per billion.
BARNET: Those are over.
PINSKY: We will take a quick break and be right back.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Back with my guests. My question is to Lisa. There is a big class action lawsuit have not been filed, could cost the city billions --
millions rather. Would that be a way to solve this or is this going to make things worse?
BLOOM: So, you know, I usual represent the powerless against the powerful. Those are hard cases. This is not a hard case. People were lied to. They
were poisoned. It is a righteous case.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: But, it is going to make more trouble for the citizen by stressing financially with this.
SLATER: The taxpayers pay it.
PINSKY: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
BARNETT: I have said that the state can have $80 million in funding for the restructuring from my understanding. So, I do not think this will be a
problem.
PINSKY: Well, if Lisa and the lawyers do not get a hold of this. Please DVR us and you can watch us anytime. I want to thank you all for watching.
Panel, great job. Audience, thank you for being here. We will see you next time.
[22:00:10] (MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
END
