Return to Transcripts main page
Dr. Drew
Trump to Boycott Thursday`s GOP Debate; Flint Water Crisis Scandal is Growing; Governor of Michigan Put on the Spot; Woman Attacks Uber Driver Caught on Tape. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired January 27, 2016 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:09] DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: All right. Well, Trump is not backing down after backing out of Thursday`s GOP debate. And, tonight he
remains defiant. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I said bye-bye.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Outfoxed. Donald Trump says he will not attend tomorrow`s Republican Presidential Debate on Fox
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ, (R-TX) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Apparently, Megyn Kelly is really, really scary.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I am not a fan of Megyn Kelly. I do not like her. She probably does not like me and that is OK, but she better be fair.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RAND PAUL, (R-KY) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Most of his life he has been a democrat. Maybe he will go to the democratic debate instead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I do not like her. She does not treat me fairly. I am not a big fan of her at all. I do not care.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEB BUSH, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You cannot take your toys and go home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: So, let them have their debate. And, let us see how they do with the ratings.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And, here is a look at the invitation to Donald Trump`s alternative event tomorrow night. He seems committed to skipping the GOP
debate. There it is. Who is going to follow him? Will viewers follow him?
Joining me, Loni Coombs, former prosecutor, author of "You`re Perfect and Other Lies Parents Tell"; Elisha Krauss, Conservative Radio Talks Show
Host; Jane Velez-Mitchell, author and founder of "JaneUnchained.com and Andy Dean, former executive at Trump productions.
He has worked with Donald Trump for seven years. And, Trump said that it is the Fox News moderator, Megyn Kelly, that she cannot be fair. But, he
did not always feel that way. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I mean I know moderators that are doing debates that do not even know what they are talking about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEGYN KELLY, FOX NEWS HOST: Do you really think that you are a better moderator than I am?
TRUMP: No. I could never beat you. That would not even be close. There will be no contest. You have done a great job by the way and I mean it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I mean I do not like her. She does not treat me fairly. I am not a big fan of hers at all. I do not care. She probably was the -- I might
be the best thing that ever happened to her. I do not know. Who ever even heard of her before the last debate?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Andy, you are laughing. I had heard of her before that debate.
ANDY DEAN, FORMER EXECUTIVE AT TRUMP PRODUCTION: Well, he made her famous. And, I think Megyn Kelly is the one that has changed over the past four
years. She has become vicious, especially toward Donald Trump. The first debate in Cleveland in early August, just a few months ago, her question
towards Donald Trump was totally out of line, totally out of the box. And, if Donald had not thought of the Rosie O`Donnell line to save it, she could
have potentially ruined the campaign.
LONI COOMBS, ATTORNEY: That Rosie O`Donnell line was just as inappropriate as everything else that Donald said. Look, Megyn Kelly was asking him
legitimate questions that people wanted to hear the answers too. And, he did not know how to handle it. Now, he is running away from this woman
that he seems to be afraid of. He is like, "I do not want to face her again." I mean it is ridiculous.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, AUTHOR AND FOUNDER OF "JANEUNCHAINED.COM: You know, I just do not understand why we are tolerating this level of behavior from
Donald Trump. It was not so long ago that Howard Dean, simply because he issued a yell, "Hi-yah!" He was absolutely wiped off the map as far as a
presidential candidate.
This guy can lie. He could claim that thousands of Muslims were cheering 9/11 in New Jersey, not true. He could claim that a tweet that blacks are
responsible for three-quarters of the crime, the homicides against whites, not true. He can call Mexican immigrants are rapists, not true. And, yet
somehow he is allowed to get away with this.
PINSKY: Well, Jane, he said himself. He could stand outside his building and shoot people on 5th Avenue and people would still support him. And, I
would argue.
ELISHA KRAUSS, CONSERVATIVE RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: No.
PINSKY: You are saying, no, Elisha. He can do that?
KRAUSS: Well, to his defense. I am sure I know a lot of people that are Barack Obama supporters as well and they think the same thing about Barack
Obama, but they would never go out there and say it. There are supporter for every person in each political party that are so gung-ho that they
would be totally fine with said candidate or politician going out and murdering someone and they would still have that --
DEAN: Not potentially murder, right? If he murders Rosie O`Donnell, I think we would all support that.
COOMBS: Oh, my God!
KRAUSS: No, we would not.
DEAN: I mean that was hypothetical. Hypothetical.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: How dare you.
DEAN: Do not misquote me on some blog. That was a joke -- or maybe, maybe
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Your quote would be accurate and would be very offensive to my good friend.
DEAN: If he shot her in a nonlethal area, I did not say kill somebody --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That is a dangerous thing to say.
DEAN: Relax.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is why Donald Trump is dangerous, because he is opening the door to this kind of violence rhetoric.
DEAN: We cannot tell jokes in this country.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Violence is not funny.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
DEAN: No. Hey look, stop. This type of political correctness, clearly we are telling a joke here. So, everybody needs to calm down.
COOMBS: I do not know. Is all his sexism a joke? Is all his racism a joke?
DEAN: Oh, geez. Everybody is a victim, right?
PINSKY: All right. Let us stay with the commentary about the debate itself, because I have spoke to some political advisers. My producers
spoke to some. And, apparently, it is common to tell your frontrunner if you are managing a frontrunner to go ahead and skip the debates, because
the only thing he can do is screwed it up, right? You have already won some. Skip the last one, because you can only blow your lead. You are not
going to do better, right?
KRAUSS: And, I think that actually Trump is not running for Megyn Kelly. I think Donald Trump is running from Ted Cruz, because the latest poll
actually shows that he and Ted Cruz are much closer than IOWA than had previously been reported.
If you look at an average of polls across the country, it shows that they are within just the margin of error like 31 and 29 percent. And, he is
afraid that if he went tomorrow night, Ted Cruz would hit him for not being a true conservative.
[21:05:07] PINSKY: Well, they are neck and neck it appears in recent some polls. And, Trump, here is how he reacted when Trump -- This is Cruz when
he found out Trump dropped out of the debate. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRUZ: If he is unwilling to stand on the debate stage with the other candidates then I would like to invite Donald right now to engage in a one
on one debate with me any time between now and the Iowa caucuses.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And, then Trump responded. And, if you saw the tweet where he responded. He said, even though -- this is his tweet, "Even through, I
beat him in the first six debates especially the last one, Ted Cruz wants to debate me again. Can we do it in Canada, Ted?"
(LAUGHING)
(CROSSTALK)
DEAN: Brilliant, right? Reminding people that Ted Cruz may not be legally qualified to run for president. It is great.
PINSKY: Let me plow the below.
DEAN: This is great.
PINSKY: I want to plow something. Elisha and I were talking about this in the green room, which is, is it possible that much like when John F.
Kennedy knew how to debate in front of a television camera and that was sort of a paradigm that shifted how politics was done forever after.
Donald Trump has figured out a way to use the media in a new paradigm.
KRAUSS: Yes.
PINSKY: And, it is so powerful what he is doing, everyone is just one giant step behind him. This maybe politics as usually before.
DEAN: I think great. I think a new species has been created. And, he is immune to the typical attacks where as politician said something and then
he has to apologize because the liberally correct media makes him apologize. He does not care.
Also, there is precedent by the way for a candidate to skip a debate. Ronald Reagan in 1980 skipped the final Iowa debate. And, in New
Hampshire, he declared war on the local newspaper there. And, it was a very famous moment in which I pay for microphone moment. So, there is
precedent for that.
KRAUSS: OK. I am sorry, but as a conservative evangelical, I take issue with people comparing Donald Trump to Ronald Reagan. The man is no
conservative like Ronald Reagan.
DEAN: They are both excellent.
KRAUSS: If you listen to him -- and by the way, Ronald Reagan ended up -- even though he lost Iowa, he won the nomination. And, I do not think that
the numbers are stacking up for Trump there. I think when you get to the primary of the bible belt states, you know, the S.E.C. Primary as well --
DEAN: He is leading in 49 states.
KRAUSS: OK.
DEAN: That is just not accurate.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Drew --
DEAN: Plus, Reagan was a democrat before he --
PINSKY: Yes, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I believe Donald Trump is a genius, but he is not a genius with the qualities that we want for president. He is a genius at getting
publicity. That is not what we need in a leader. This is a man who did not know what the nuclear triad was in the last debate. That is why he is
skipping.
(CROSSTALKS)
DEAN: Nobody knows that.
COOMBS: But, the question is --
KRAUSS: Marco Rubio knew. Marco Rubio knew.
PINSKY: Yes, ma`am?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I think Donald Trump is a racist and as a minority in this country, I would never vote for him. His statements
are ridiculous.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Let me -- I think you have an opinion that a lot of people share with you. But, are there other minorities in the room that would vote for
him? OK. There are bunch of them in here. I mean so, that is what I find -- what is he tapped into that you are finding objectionable that they find
sort of inspiring?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I do not think that we should have a racist as this country is full of many different types of people, just not
white conservatives. So, I disagree with him.
PINSKY: Which you are certainly entitled to. You said sir, you are going to vote -- grab the mic, I am going to switch you out with this guy. I
want to understand why she sees him as a racist and you do not. Switch out. Yes, grab a mic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Well, from my research --
PINSKY: Sir, get down on the X there. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: A lot of people in the hood that I talked to, they -- they actually misinterpret what Trump is saying.
Because I talk to them. I say, "What did he say racist?" "Well, I cannot find out what he said, but I know he is racist."
They equate white tall man with suit with evil racism. But, if you really listen to him and follow what he is saying and do research with what they
say, they cannot come up with the thing that he said.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: How about this, how about when he tweeted that the majority of homicides against whites were committed by blacks, which is not
true? How about that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: How about it?
(LAUGHING)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: How about it? It is a lie.
PINSKY: Thank you, sir. But, Andy, you want -- so you are saying --
DEAN: What he said is very, very intelligent that if you break down what Donald is saying, he does not look at people in categories like women,
minorities, Mexican. He just want what is right for the American people. And, Jane here at the beginning said, "Oh, Trump is against Mexicans
calling them rapists."
No. He said some illegal immigrants commit these crimes and he is going to put a stop to illegal immigration, but, she says "Oh, that is racist." It
is not. It is a policy position. And, by calling it racist, that is dishonest because it does not allow us to discuss it without her throwing
fire bombs.
PINSKY: Yes, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Well, if Trump is afraid of blond women, he might as well bow out now, because I think he will be facing
Hillary Clinton. So, we are talking about nothing. I think that when you said he is the king of the internet. He has kind of mastered that, but you
got to face people you do not like if you are going to be president.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: OK. Fair enough.
COOMBS: But, the reality --
PINSKY: I got to wrap it up. So, go ahead, Loni. Share us your thoughts.
COOMBS: Well, the reality is, he has hijacked all of the media`s attention for how many news cycles now. But, it does not really matter what happens
with the debate anymore. Everybody is going to be wondering what is Donald Trump doing.
PINSKY: And, we will continue this conversation about that and more. And, later, the toxic water scandal in Flint, Michigan is growing. Michael
Moore is calling for the governor to be axed. More after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I came here to do the debate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Only Donald Trump can pass off center stage and still command all the attention.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They cannot toy with me like they toy with everybody else.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GABRIEL SHERMAN, JOURNALIST: Fox News is used to controlling the Republican Party. And, for 50 years conservatives have cried media bias
and what Donald Trump has basically done is use their playbook, called bias and said, "I do not think your questions are fair" and the audience
believes him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I would like to go to the debate. I enjoy the debates. I have done well in the debates. Every single poll has said I won every debate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: And, now, he will not be there but he will be there because every candidate on that stage is going to take advantage of
it and they are going to hammer the hell out of him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And, Trump was on Fox tonight with Bill O`Reilly, who says he believes the candidate is being petty. The candidate himself, Mr. Trump
being petty. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL O`REILLY, FOX NEW HOST OF "THE O`REILLY FACTOR" PROGRAM: Would you say that right now Donald Trump, all right, is a person who can let petty
things? And, that is what I think this is all about, petty things influence him to the extent that he does not do what maybe he should do?
[21:15:11] TRUMP: Well, let me put it a little differently. I do not like being taken advantage of. In this case, I was being taken advantage
of by Fox. I do not like that. Now, when I am representing the country, if I win, if I am representing the country as president, I will not let our
country because that is a personality trait.
I am not going to let our country be taken advantage of by Iran and by -- when you look at that scene two weeks ago with the sailors on their knees
in a begging position with their hands up and guns, rifles at their head, and we are giving them $150 billion two days later. That is the only
reason why we got them back. I do not want that to happen to our country. So, it is a personality trait, but I do not think it is really a bad
personality trait.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Loni, Elisha, Jane, and Andy. Andy, you have been enthusiastically nodding your head whenever Mr. Trump speaks.
DEAN: Yes.
PINSKY: I got to say. It is not as though -- petty does not seem to be the right thing, because, he is not as though he is harping on this whole
thing. He said, "All right, I am out. That is it. I am out of here." And, in fact, I think it was more about Roger Ailes too than Megyn Kelly.
DEAN: Maybe, but I like the way that Donald, you know, answered the question that he wanted to answer and it was more important question, which
is about control that Donald Trump is going to control the situation. And, if he sees a bad deal, which he views this debate is going to be a bad deal
for him, walk away from it, just like the president should do with Iran if it is a bad deal. And, people like that type of control.
PINSKY: Now, you are an attorney. Being willing to leave the negotiating table is a strong position, right?
COOMBS: It is effective, but at other times you have to be able to work with other people with other world leaders. And, you brought up Roger
Ailes, when you watch the back and forth between two people who are supposedly very friendly, Donald Trump and roger ales. And, they both
really resort to these petty comments back and forth. It is like, is this what is going to be like when he is trying to negotiate with another world
leader and they get under each other`s skin?
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: You are right, Loni. It does bother me a little bit, Andy. Megyn Kelly is a competitor of us, of our show. I think she is brilliant. I
think she is great. I do not like that I have to compete with her, but she is not my enemy. I do not hate her.
He get gets this good-bad mentality where if somebody runs against him, he said Michael Bloomberg, great friend of mine, if he runs against me I hate
him. I got to destroy him. That is kind of a childish thing.
DEAN: Well, I would disagree about Megyn Kelly. I think like Donald that she is overrated and she has the benefit of a Bill O`Reilly lead-in
without, which she would have low ratings.
PINSKY: Well, hold on. Hold on. Wait. Wait. Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think that is a very sexist comment.
DEAN: Sexist?
VELEZ0-MITCHELL: Let me say this. He says that Megyn Kelly is obsessed with him. No. I think he is obsessed with Megyn Kelly. And, the reason
why he is obsessed with her, she is gorgeous and smart and she is not a submissive woman, who kowtows to him and acts like he is all that, because
she knows he is not all that.
PINSKY: Elisha, what do you say?
KRAUSS: I say that anybody that does not adore Donald Trump is his enemy and it bothers me that when he says --
PINSKY: I am not sure that is true. No, no, no.
KRAUSS: Like in one month, though, he says, "Oh, let Putin deal with ISIS." And, then when the polls show that it is more beneficial for him to
deal with the terror threat in the United States, he says is like "I am going to deal with ISIS and I am going to be the best at it ever."
PINSKY: All right. Listen to what --
KRAUSS: And, now, he is all buddy-buddy with Vladimir Putin, because Putin said that he is so strong and powerful. That is scary to me. Trump does
not have the best interests of the United States in mind.
PINSKY: Well, it is scary but it has been his way he has been effective as he negotiates. It is scary. I agree it is kind of scary. And, I do not
know that I like it in large. But, his negotiating style has worked. That is a fact.
KRAUSS: For him.
COOMBS: It is more of a bully. Bully tactic.
PINSKY: Whatever it is -- whatever the word. The only question we all have to ask ourselves, do we want that at the negotiating table for our
country. Here he is at Bill O`Reilly again. O`Reilly, himself, advised Trump to maybe change his tactics. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O`REILLY: I submit to you that you need to change and get away from the personal, they hurt my feelings, are unfair to me and make it about them,
the folks. Not about you. And, you elevate then to a place where you could win this if you do that. Am I crazy?
TRUMP: You are not crazy at all, Bill. But, it is about them. It is about making America great again. That is why I am doing this. It is not
because I want the position. It is because I know the potential of this country, how great the country can be. Our leader is not doing the job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Yes, sir, from the audience.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. My issue with Donald Trump is that he is not tactful and he is not smart with his words. And, we do not
want someone like that running our country.
PINSKY: OK. How about -- Andy --
DEAN: That is the exact reason why Donald Trump will win, because the American public after eight years of a president, they always pick somebody
who is the complete opposite. I mean that is true historically.
Until Obama has been so tactful, and so professorial and so careful and politically correct that we are fed-up. And, Donald Trump is the anti-
Obama. And, that is why he will win.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. We are fed up that we did not get ourselves entangled to unnecessary wars. We are fed up that we did not have an
economic collapse in a subprime mortgage mess. "Oh, woe is me. Let us make America great again." Last time I checked America was great.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
KRAUSS: I think that for a lot of conservative people, Trump is tapping into and even non-conservative people, Trump is tapping into America is,
God bless us, the greatest country in the world, thank God. But, there is still room for improvement. And, the economy under President Obama has not
been the greatest.
[21:20:00] And, maybe why he is seeing some support under some members of the black community is because he is addressing that under this African-
American president, black unemployment rate has gone down further and the immigration issue does seemed to work.
So, people talk about, "Oh, immigration. Republicans cannot talk about it." But, I think candidates in addition to Donald Trump should be talking
about the immigration issue, because it affects minority voters.
COOMBS: I think that, that is the thing that is happening right now is going to be very fascinating how it plays out, because Donald Trump has
essentially thrown down the gauntlet that he is playing politics in a whole new way. And, it is going to be up to the Iowa voters to see what they do
in these next few days to say, "OK, they are accepting this new way" or "No, we are not going to play this way."
KRAUSS: And, the Iowa voters take their caucusing very seriously.
COOMBS: They have. They have in the past, but I think we might be working from the playbook now.
KRAUSS: But, they take it very seriously. And, I think that they are going to take offense to him not showing up for their debate.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Well, they will show up at his.
COOMBS: That is right. They are going to say --
DEAN: They are going to show up at his event with the veterans, which is more important.
COOMBS: Right.
PINSKY: Yes. Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: You know what? Donald Trump has helped more slaves in this country than anybody that ever ran. And, by the
way, if you have a birth certificate and a social security number, you are a slave. And, I think, you people, need to concentrate --
PINSKY: What? Wait, wait. Whoa! Wait, wait.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: You should need to concentrate on your own problems in your own house. This man is trying to help the world.
If you are not trying to get with him then help the world, then you should just mind your own business.
Because look at your own children, look at your family, look at your problems, there are enough problems that everybody got. And, instead of
trying to go against the man that is trying to help America, OK, get with it, people. Get with it. Get with it.
PINSKY: OK. OK, good. OK.
(AUDIENCE BOOING)
DEAN: She seems like a Trump voter. I like her.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Right? It is interesting, is not it? I was telling Andy during - - before we start, I said I feel like an anthropologist from like another time or from Mars. I got plot in here like, "Whoa, what is going on in the
United States of America 2016?" This is fascinating. But, he is tapped into something here.
COOMBS: And, there is a lot of passion there.
PINSKY: You cannot deny it.
COOMBS: I mean we cannot see voters that as passionate as that.
PINSKY: When have you watched seven republicans debate before a primary?
COOMBS: I know.
PINSKY: Anybody? I have never done that before.
DEAN: Right.
KRAUSS: Well, there were a lot in 2012.
PINSKY: To be fair.
DEAN: Nobody watch it. The ratings were like abysmal.
KRAUSS: OK, but since the first GOP debate, Trump keeps talking about like, "I bring in the ratings. I bring in huge ratings."
DEAN: He does.
PINSKY: Well, you know what? This next debate will be the acid test, for sure.
COOMBS: Right.
KRAUSS: But, the first had, what? 21 million viewers --
DEAN: 24.
KRAUSS: It has consistently gone down since then even with Donald participating in the debate.
DEAN: But, it is still five times higher than last cycle.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But this is not about ratings. This is about the future of our country, people. This is not a reality show. OK? American
politics is not a reality show. It is the most serious decision we can make as citizens. Let us not reduce ourselves.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
COOMBS: It all comes down to if the voters wills vote. And, at least they are watching the debates now -- are they actually going come out to vote?
PINSKY: All right. We are not going to end this conversation tonight, no doubt. This is something we will continue to talk about on the ongoing
weeks. Next up, very difficult story.
The Governor of Michigan will be put on the spot about what he is doing for the people of Flint and their water supply. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: The water crisis in Flint. Families and children still without clean water. Many of them fearing that they have
been exposed to lead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL SCHUETTE, MICHIGAN ATTORNEY GENERAL: I would certainly not bathe a newborn child or a young infant in this bad water.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICK SNYDER, MICHIGAN GOVERNOR: It is safe to bathe. If you have younger children, you should want to monitor them to make sure they were not
drinking the water.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANESSA BARNETT, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: My daughter was just there. She took a bath in that water and completely broke out. The government
poisoned these kids.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: New accusations of what is being called environmental racism in Flint, Michigan. Tonight, residents still cannot drink from their taps.
There is concern that the water is toxic. Some will not even use the water to bathe. Michigan`s governor has estimated the number of children
affected by the high lead levels. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. SNYDER: 35 have been found in the last few months. It is about hundred and some if you go back over the last couple of years. There could
be many more.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Loni, Elisha, and Jane. And, joining us, Judge Greg Mathis, Host of "Judge Mathis." He is from Flint, Michigan.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
Please welcome, the great Judge Mathis. Thank you, judge for being part of the program. You are from Flint. What should be done in your hometown?
JUDGE GREG MATHIS, HOST, JUDGE MATHIS: I am from Detroit about 45 minutes from Flint. And, I think, first of all, the governor should resign, as
there is a there is a question as to whether he should to resign.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
In his state of the union speech he said, "I failed the citizens." So, who else on their job can say I failed and not have to leave. Second,
particularly with the effects that we have, what I refer to is akin to a terrorist attack, quite, frankly. We prepare homeland security all the
time to watch out for the poisoning of the water. We prepare the military. Look out for the poisoning of the water.
Well, lo and behold we have a government whose neglect was so much so that the water has been poisoned. And, for a city of 100,000 residents, it
still has not been cleaned up. You still cannot drink the water. Still cannot bathe in the water. I think this is a travesty of justice.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
I think with regard to environmental racism, I think the neglect was in many instances a diminishment of the lives of African-Americans and of poor
people. I think it is frequently the case with people of color and poor people that they have neglected oversaw.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Well , there is no doubt that poor people are more likely to get medical problems and some of it are environmental issues. Can you get for
me the data up there, if we have that available. Here is the demographics. 42 percent of Flint are below the poverty level in Flint. 57 percent are
black. And, you know, you cannot deny that this is a demographic issue, but should somebody be held legally accountable, Loni?
COOMBS: Well, I think so. Now, usually, when talking about politicians being held criminally liable, it is difficult. Because they will just say,
it is incompetence or malfeasance, so they just made bad decisions. But, look, what we are finding out or what is going on is that they had
notifications over notification.
[21:30:03] First from the citizens, then from these experts, who are testing the water. Then from this pediatrician, who tested the children.
They kept saying, "Look, we are seeing this extremely dangerous lead poisoning going on." And, the authorities kept saying, "No, no, no. Do
not worry about it. Do not worry about it."
Then you are getting into fraud and you are getting into possible criminal charges. But, also when they do the investigation they are doing right
now, a lot of them might try to cover up. And, so, a lot of times, people get caught on the perjury or the obstruction of justice during the
investigation as it goes on.
PINSKY: Do you think that is going to be it, Judge? They are going to cover it?
JUDGE MATHIS: I think that between those e-mails, they are going to find something. All the documents that had been subpoenaed. And, there it is,
gross negligence that could be criminally culpable.
PINSKY: So, criminal negligence.
JUDGE MATHIS: Absolutely.
PINSKY: Now, this all started with them and you are from Detroit. The big mistake they made at the beginning a couple of years ago is they went from
the Detroit water system to the Flint River. This is what started their trouble. The Flint River --
JUDGE MATHIS: The Detroit system is supplied by Lake Huron, one of the biggest and purest lakes in the country. And, so, that water that was
coming in -- so that you do not think Detroit has bad water is some of the best water.
PINSKY: It is more expensive to get it in Flint, though. That is why they were cutting corners.
JUDGE MATHIS: Only $150 a day to clean the toxic water. They saved $150 a day and we have a city of nearly 100,000 people whose water has been
poisoned.
KRAUSS: Actually, some of the reports in the long term it was going to be cheaper for them to stay with the Detroit water district. But, in addition
to this being an issue of bureaucracy and obviously a finance manager being assigned by the governor is not always the panacea for solving problems.
I think the finance manager, family in Flint and Detroit area as well -- the finance manager in Detroit was drastically needed. There was so much
corruption there. In this case, it was not the end all, fix all.
But, in addition to that, what people are not addressing is that this was kind of a government jobs creator. And, people on the board in Flint,
Michigan, voted to have this happen; because they thought in the long term, it would create more jobs in their very hometown.
PINSKY: By having their own water supply system.
KRAUSS: By having their own water supply system.
PINSKY: Is not it weird that in 2016, we are talking about water management as the key issue that government is failing us on? Something as
simple -- Look, in California, you think we do not have that problem here? California, we do not have any water. Forget about having bad water. We
have no water, and bad water.
But, I want to get into the next block, whether or not this is a serious problem throughout the country. I mean it is easy to look at it and go,
"Hey man, there are poor people here." You are blinking when it comes to poor people.
But, I am wondering, we got a bigger problem afoot here in this country at large. As it pertains to what happened in Flint, though, Michael Moore
slammed -- he also slammed Michigan Governor Rick Snyder on CNN today. Take a look at what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL MOORE, FILMMAKER/FORMER FLINT RESIDENT: The fact that he has not replaced a single lead pipe -- not a single lead pipe, since this came to
light. He has known about this that we know of at least since last February. This is a cover-up. It is fraud. It is a version of
manslaughter now, because we have ten people that have died from Legionnaire`s disease.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Well, ten people died of Legionnaire, but the 87 cases apparently, only two were related to water. Legionnaire`s can be caught through water
spray, water vapor. And, they have linked to the water vapor in the water supply. It gets complicated. Again, in the next block we are going to get
into the weeds a little bit about it.
JUDGE MATHIS: Two is too many. Go ahead.
PINSKY: That is my question. Is one too many? Is the government official -- What do we tolerate? Who decides that?
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
JUDGE MATHIS: There is zero tolerance with the government being so neglectful that it allows some of these residents to die. One to die.
PINSKY: One is too much.
JUDGE MATHIS: One to die.
PINSKY: Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is a very serious criminal issue. As a crime reporter, if you poison somebody you could be charged with murder. And,
lead poisoning is a serious problem. That is why we do not let little kids eat the paint off the walls.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: But, Jane, Elisha brought up a point, but I have been championing for a few days here, which is bureaucracy, bureaucracy, bureaucracy. There
is nobody accountable. There is a big system there, right?
KRAUSS: It is not just Rick Snyder`s fault. I want to go to every -- like the local EPA within the state, the local city council, the mayor there
including Governor Granholm, Killpatrick, the former mayor of Detroit came out today.
And, apparently, there are emails that showed that the previous democratic female governor knew what was happening with the water situation in Flint
and was aware of it as well, before Snyder even came into office. So, I think everyone jumping to --
JUDGE MATHIS: Well, no one says that it was being staged over. It did not occur under her administration.
KRAUSS: But, I just have issues with everyone jumping to governor, "It is his problem," when we know that there are other agencies and other people
involved here.
COOMBS: The problem is they all turned a blind eye to it. All of the agency.
PINSKY: But they did not. They did not. They were just slow to respond.
COOMBS: No, no, no, no, no.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: In fact, they told people to flush -- pre-flush before the samples because that would reduce the lead levels. So, they were very
aware that they had a problem. And, I think you can make a very big case for a cover-up. And, frankly, I think you have potentially hundreds, even
thousands of kids possibly affected by this. I mean lead in large quantities can cause mental retardation and all sorts of very serious
problems.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
KRAUSS: And, it is irreversible. It is irreversible.
PINSKY: All right. We are going to keep this up. We have a little more to talk about. I want to get into how bad is it.
[21:35:00] And, next up, rather after that I got a woman who attacked an Uber driver. Again, another Uber driver getting attacked. There we are,
she says, well, she had a bad day. She had a bad day. We will hear about it. And we got more after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOV. SNYDER: To you, the people of Flint, I say tonight as I have before, I am sorry and I will fix it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEB BUSH, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I admire Rick Snyder for stepping up now. He is going through the challenge.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: When we shared our data by the state we were refuted. We were told that it was wrong and that it was not consistent
with their data.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL BALLENGER, (R) FORMER MICHIGAN LAWMAKER: It is vastly exaggerated. The percentage of children and people affected in these tests is probably
less than 2 percent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MELISSA MAYS, FLINT RESIDENT: Ultimately, I would like to see him in jail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Lots of blame to go around for the Flint water crisis. Michigan`s governor seems to be taking a lot of it, a lot of the heat. Meanwhile,
Flint`s new Mayor, Karen Weaver, talked about how she will be handling this crisis going forward. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[21:40:00] KAREN WEAVER, FLINT, MICHIGAN MAYOR: We need to look at how we are going to prioritize things, what we want to address first. So, those
are just some of the things.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Loni, Elisha, Jane and Judge Mathis. Judge, I hear the governor saying 2 percent. You know, it is not as big. It is not 10
percent. Jane said before the break one is too many. 2 percent has to be thousands.
JUDGE MATHIS: Absolutely. There has not been enough testing to conclude that. They are still testing folks. We have private folks volunteering
blood testing. I am hosting a forum there in Flint at Quinn AME Church this Saturday, 11:00 A.M. for the public to come and find out from some
other experts, particularly in the legal community.
We are not signing anyone up for cases, lawyers, so do not show up. But, we have some of the best legal minds coming there to give answers and some
direction to those folks. There is so much confusion. As you just said, he has come up with this 2 percent number. How many have you even been
tested?
PINSKY: 2 percent, Jane -- You said one is too many. 2 percent is way too many.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I see a complaisancy and the idea that some of these people -- I think I saw Jeb Bush saying, "He was doing a good job." That
is like, "Heck of a job, Brownie." I mean, come on! This is a catastrophe of monumental proportions.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
And, the governor needs to resign, as the judge said. And, I believe there needs to be criminal charges. I will just say this. This would never have
happened in Grosse Pointe. Ever. It would never have happened in Grosse Pointe. And, I think we all know that and we all know why.
COOMBS: Well, you know, they are even filing lawsuits right now because they are still getting charged for this undrinkable water. They are
getting bills to pay for that and they are needing to get more drug testing. They are having to file lawsuits to get these things done now.
PINSKY: I am going to find out -- I got a little bit more data about what is actually going on, because as I have read about the story it gets
misrepresented everywhere in the media. So, I want to go to an expert. I spoke to and I am bringing in now, Erin Brockovich`s Chief Environmental
Investigator, Bob Bowcock. He joins us by phone now. So, Bob, let us make it really digestible for people. What is at issue, and is it something
unique for Flint?
BOB BOWCOCK, ERIN BROCKOIVH`S CHIEF ENVIRONMENTAL INVESTIGATOR: Well, the issue, Drew, is not unique for Flint. It is actual national crisis. What
we have is we have cities that are financially stressed. And, they are making economic decisions when it comes to our most basic needed element of
drinking water.
And, to make these economic decisions to turn off a water quality that a hundred-year-old distribution system has grown accustomed to chemically.
And, they go and switch to a very corrosive water that is literally stripping away the metals in that distribution system, iron, manganese,
lead, copper. All the metals are now part of the drinking water and are causing this toxic effect.
PINSKY: So, Bob, it really is not so much the pipes, but the pipes are the source. It is literally the switch to the water that needs to be
aggressively treated, because it is sort of -- it is not a great supply and it saves money. Does that summarize the issue.
BOWCOCK: Yes, absolutely, Drew. That is what is going on. They are going to the least cost alternative. And, they are poisoning the drinking water.
PINSKY: And, then we are losing chloride also, which is what kills the bacteria. So, now we are getting infectious agents on top of that because
of low chloride. Is that correct?
BOWCOCK: Absolutely. That is what you heard talking about when they referred to the Legionella.
PINSKY: There you go.
BOWCOCK: It is all water related whether they get it in a mist. You cannot get it drinking it. You can only get it in a mist.
PINSKY: There you go.
BOWCOCK: It always comes from the water.
PINSKY: Bob, thank you so much for clarifying that. You see, when I was saying that, I think there is a bigger problem afoot. It is something in
Flint. Everything we are saying is true. They were slow to respond. They made economic decisions. They are willing to put people at risk. Maybe
because they were on the low end of socioeconomic spectrum that they are willing to take out of risk and not respond fast. No?
KRAUSS: I will disagree with that, though. Just, because even here in Los Angeles we have seen water meters that break every five seconds and flood,
you know, different roads and make traffic more miserable than it typically did.
PINSKY: By the way --
KRAUSS: And, they are in fancy neighborhoods because the pipes are upwards of a hundred years old and the city government does not do a good job of
managing it. I think that this speaks to a bigger issue of government mismanagement.
I mean you have Governor Brown even here in California. In Porter Ranch, there has been a dangerous gas leak for six months. And, for political
reasons, it took our democratic governor six months to respond to a gas leak in a largely middle class white neighborhood.
PINSKY: And, again, bureaucracy, bureaucracy. It is the most in efficient way to do things, everybody.
Next up, a doctor is caught on tape going after an Uber driver. You will hear the doctor`s side of the story and see what happened after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[21:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CAPTION)
"A Miami man was waiting for an Uber, when he alleges a woman attempted to hijack his ride."
"When the Uber driver refused to accommodate her, she became aggressive."
(END VIDEO CAPTION)
DR. ANJALI RAMKISSOON: No. Seriously? Press charges.
MALE BYSTANDER: No, no, no. Let him go.
DR. RAMKISSOON: Press charges.
UBER DRIVER: Can you call 911, please? She is getting violent.
DR. RAMKISSOON: Yes. Call 911. Oh, yeah. Call 911.
MALE BYSTANDER: Let him go.
DR. RAMKISSOON: Call 911.
FEMALE BYSTANDER: Let go of his shirt and go home.
DR. RAMKISSOON: Oh. Seriously?
MALE BYSTANDER: Yeah, seriously? Yeah, get some help.
DR. RAMKISSOON: Seriously, call 911.
MALE BYSTANDER: Yeah, call 911.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That video had over 5 million YouTube views. It does not end there. Keep watching.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. RAMKISSOON: Get out the (EXPLETIVE WORD) in the car you piece of disgusting (EXPLETIVE WORD).
UBER DRIVER: She attacked me. She is getting violent.
DR. RAMKISSOON: I am a five-foot girl that weighs a hundred pounds. I am getting really, like, belligerent right now. So --
[21:50:00] MALE BYSTANDER: What are you doing?
DR. RAMKISSOON: Oh, no!
MALE BYSTANDER: You lost your mind.
DR. RAMKISSOON: I have lost my mind!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Dr. Anjali Ramkissoon is a fourth-year neurology resident in Miami. That was her in her best hour. She has been placed on
administrative leave pending investigation. Back with Loni, Elisha, Jane and Judge Mathis. Jane --
(LAUGHING)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes? Well, you know, I was looking at this going, "This is outrageous. This is horrible." Then I remembered, "Oh, I am a
recovering alcoholic with 20 years of sobriety. And, if there had been camera rolling on me during some of my high jigs way back before I got
sober, I would probably be mortified."
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: I hope -- this looked intoxicated. I am hoping this is some sort of bottom for this young lady. She is a fourth year neurology resident.
Not a trivial person. Society has invested richly in her, in her training. Is this going to be her bottom, do you think?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I hope so. I mean I know she went on television and said she was mortified.
PINSKY: Well, I am going to show that. Here is her on GMA, "Good Morning, America." Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. RAMKISSOON: I see a person that is not me. That is -- I am ashamed. I still cannot watch the entire video. A lot had happened that day
actually. The events leading up to that point. My father had been placed in the hospital.
And, just minutes prior to that altercation with the Uber driver, my boyfriend and I of two years had just broken up. I was extremely stressed
out that day. It was probably one of the worst days of my life. And, I was caught at my lowest moment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Judge, she is pleading her case to you. How do you adjudicate? How do you find this young lady? Should she lose her job? What do you
say?
JUDGE MATHIS: If everyone that came before me said that their defense was they broke up with their boyfriend or that they had a bad day, then she
would go straight to jail under the jail.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(LAUGHING)
But, as we spoke of earlier. Had she said that I have an alcohol problem or drug problem, then she should be entitled to treatment.
PINSKY: Be getting better. That is right.
JUDGE MATHIS: And, perhaps not even lose her job.
PINSKY: This could be a God sent if she is an alcoholic.
JUDGE MATHIS: Absolutely.
PINSKY: No?
KRAUSS: I feel like -- I apologized for millennials everywhere, because I feel like her apology is that faux apology of, "I am not responsible for my
own actions."
PINSKY: Well, the GMA -- the interviewer were asked if the physician had been drinking. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE HOST: So, you had been drinking?
DR. RAMKISSOON: Yes. And, I knew that I had had a few drinks. I had actually driven to that place that night. But, I did not want to drive my
car home. So, I left my car there. And, that was why I was trying to get the Uber to get home. Be careful what you do in public, because the things
that we do can be taped and we can suffer severe ramifications for these things.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Just do not get caught.
COOMBS: When the tape is rolling.
PINSKY: But, it was drunk and disorderly. That is what she was doing.
COOMBS: Yes, but I do give her credit for calling an Uber and not driving when she was intoxicated. I give her that.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Jane, what do we do? If we were doing an intervention, "Honey, come on."
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And, you know what they say in Vino Veritas. I mean, yes, I have been there. When I got drunk, I did things that I would
not want on camera. But, by the same token, this woman is revealing that she has a very elitist entitled attitude. She is a doctor.
The Uber driver does not count. He is proletariat. You know, he is beneath her. And, the demeaning things that she says to this man and the
gentlemanly way that he handles it, this man deserves an award.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: In Vino Veritas. We will be right back after this.,
(LAUGHING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MALE BYSTANDER: Holy (EXPLETIVE WORD).
DR. RAMKISSOON: We need a police officer.
MALE BYSTANDER: She is throwing scissors. Look, your iPhone.
FEMALE BYSTANDER: Oh, my gosh. That is destruction of property! You are crazy.
DR. RAMKISSOON: I guess that is it.
FEMALE BYSTANDER: I guess I will see the crime scene.
DR. RAMKISSOON: Good night.
FEMALE BYSTANDER: Oh, my God.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: The owner of the car, an Uber driver refused to press charges. Uber however has suspended her rider account, thankfully. And, Loni, Uber
is taking measures to prevent future attacks. What are they doing?
COOMBS: Uber, they are always a creative company. They have come up with a couple of things they are trying out. In Charlotte, they are testing
bop-its. Now, I do not know -- bop-its. Now, I do not know if you remember these things .
They are usually these little bright flashy, noisy toys from the 90s. And, what they are doing is, they are putting them in their back seats. So,
when the drunk people come in, they will play with these and get distracted and leave the driver alone. I think that is creative. And, then in
Seattle --
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: If it works.
COOMBS: Yes. And, then in Seattle, the drivers are putting up mirrors on the back seat, because they are saying, "OK, if they can see themselves and
see how badly they are acting maybe they will temper their own behavior."
PINSKY: Now, Jane, I do not think mirrors will do much.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: No. I mean listen, you can look in the mirror and have a moment of clarity and go, "Who is that?" But, I think that this reveals
sort of the attitude that we have in our culture that there is the elite that travels in Uber. And, then there are the low trodden who drive the
Uber vehicles and never the twain shall meet.
KRAUSS: I, actually, disagree with that. Because Uber has been very beneficial to people in minorities and poor communities, where black car
services and taxicabs will not go.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(CROSSTALKS)
JUDGE MATHIS: People in my neighborhood cannot afford no Uber. Uber will not come there.
PINSKY: We have all benefitted --
JUDGE MATHIS: Nobody in Detroit comes to a housing project with an Uber.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: We have all benefitted because there had not been as many drunk drivers on the road. People are more likely to take Uber when they drink.
Thank you for watching. Thank you, panel. Good job. Thank you, audience. Please DVR us then you can watch us anytime. We will see you next time.
[22:00:10] (MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
END
