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Dr. Drew
Cosby Returns to Court Facing Sexual Assault Cases; Daycare Worker Charged with Child Abuse; Students Rally in Support of Women Subject to Racial Attack on a Bus. Aired 9-10p Et
Aired February 02, 2016 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:14] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Tonight, Bill Cosby returns to court facing sexual assault charges. Will he stand trial or walk free?
Plus, a daycare worker has been charged with child abuse after appearing to rough up a napping 4-year-old. She says it is not what it seems. Dr. Drew
starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: A woman who claims she was sexually assaulted by Bill Cosby drops her case. Meanwhile, the man who decided not to
prosecute Cosby in 2005, he is back in the courtroom. He admits -- he insists in fact that he had made an oral agreement to stop Cosby from ever
being charged. Listen to what he told CNN in 2014.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Did you think that this woman was telling you the truth? Did you think at the time based on what you understood of the
circumstances that Bill Cosby was guilty?
BRUCE CASTOR, FORMER DISTRICT ATTORNEY: I thought that she was telling the truth. I did not think that there was enough evidence based on her
statements alone to convict him beyond a reasonable doubt. Did I think he probably did something inappropriate? Yes. Did I think that I could prove
it beyond a reasonable doubt based on available, credible and admissible evidence? No, I did not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That was former district Attorney Bruce Castor. Today, he testified on behalf of Cosby`s team. But on the stand, he told Cosby`s
lawyers explicitly, "I am not on your team. I want them, the prosecution to win."
Joining me, Anahita Sedaghatfar, Attorney of Council to the Cochran Firm; Lisa Bloom, Civil Right Lawyer at the Bloom Firm and Legal Analyst for
Avvo.com; Erin Foster, Psychotherapist and Joseph C. Phillips, actor, himself, having been from the Cosby show. Now, Lisa, we are very fortunate
to have you with us because you and your mom have been deeply involved in this Cosby case inside and out, right?
LISA BLOOM, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Uh-huh. That is right.
PINSKY: This oral agreement that this D.A. had --
BLOOM: Allegedly.
PINSKY: Well, and he testified under oath in court today and he insisted that even though he wants the prosecution to win, he had to admit that this
was an agreement. He did not want him to be prosecuted, and he did not want him prosecuted because he wanted this woman to have a crack on a civil
case.
BLOOM: Right.
PINSKY: Does that make sense to you?
BLOOM: No. The whole thing stinks to high heaven, in my opinion. And, I would like to know Mr. Caster, why if you had this agreement involving the
biggest celebrity that was ever connected to your office, why it was not in writing. We, lawyers, one thing we do is we put everything in writing.
Anything that is important, not important, we put it in writing. Why not this?
PINSKY: I talked to your mom, Gloria Allred today and she called it -- you called it yesterday to reduce to writing. Is that --
BLOOM: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: But she said it was unusual, but she had to admit the guy was compelling doing this under oath. And, by the way, claiming to be for the
other guys. He claims for the other team.
BLOOM: I do not find it compelling at all. I will tell you why. Because he made a decision in 2005 not to stick up for Andrea Constand when he had
a chance, and all of the people who want to defend Mr. Cosby say, "You know, why did not any of these women go to law enforcement?"
Well, guess what? Andrea Constand did. She was begging to have her day in court. And, he says there was not enough evidence, but a woman`s testimony
is evidence. And, now in 2016, there is a prosecutor willing to do it and this guy says, "I do not think so", because I had an oral agreement. I
mean, to me that is very questionable.
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I disagree with you. I am sorry to say, I think that D.A.`s testimony was very compelling. And, if the judge
follows the law, I think this criminal case should be dismissed against Bill Cosby.
Because this D.A., he was under oath, under penalty of perjury and said, "I am not even on Bill Cosby`s side, but I made an agreement with him that he
would never be prosecuted for this case in exchange for him giving full and complete testimony in the civil case and not invoke his fifth amendment
right? --
BLOOM: And, you know who`s side he is on?
SEDAGHATFAR: And, Bill Cosby did that.
BLOOM: You know, who`s side he is on? He is on Bruce Castor`s side, because he is going to cover up for the mistakes that he made back in 2005.
I think that is --
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, I think that is a stretch. I think when you look at the fact that Bill Cosby detrimentally, and that is a legal term, relied
upon this agreement --
BLOOM: If he did --
SEDAGHATFAR: That makes -- Well, the fact that he testified --
JOSEPH C. PHILLIPS, ACTOR: Well, of course he did.
SEDAGHATFAR: Wait. Hold on. The fact that --
BLOOM: He testified for four days --
SEDAGHATFAR: Without invoking the fifth amendment. There is no attorney in the world much less Bill Cosby`s attorney that would let Bill Cosby say
those things he said in that depo, if they thought he had a chance to be prosecuted.
PINSKY: Joseph.
PHILLIPS: Well, I agree. And, just to put it simply. Of course there was an agreement. Bill Cosby never would have subjected himself openly as you
say to four days of testimony without an agreement.
BLOOM: It was not openly. There were a million objections.
PHILLIPS: Well, of course --
BLOOM: I have read that transcripts.
PHILLIPS: Well, listen, I am not a lawyer, but I know -- I have watched enough "People`s Court" to know --
BLOOM: Well, it is different.
PHILLIPS: -- that of course there are going to be objections in a deposition. Of course, his lawyers are going to protect him from saying
too much. And, I just want to touch on another thing. There was evidence, Castor said there was evidence, the question was whether or not there was
enough evidence to produce a guilty verdict, and I do not think there was then. I do not think there is now. --
[21:05:15] BLOOM: Well, we will never know because he did not have the guts to take this case to court.
PINSKY: All right.
PHILLIPS: Well, that is not reason to twist the legal system to get the result that you want.
PINSKY: We are going to move on. I will say it is pretty compelling. I think everyone has to agree. This guy gets in front of God and everyone
and under oath testifies against the team he is playing against -- on behalf of the team he is playing against to bring up an agreement he had
many years ago. I agree probably CYA.
BLOOM: He is his political rival. His current prosecutor beat him in an election. This is against his own rival.
PINSKY: But, he is allowing them to win. Right?
BLOOM: No, he is not. No, it is not. If his side -- if Bruce Castor`s side prevails, the 2005 prosecutor, then his rival who won the election by
saying, "I am going to prosecute Bill Cosby is the one who is going to get to do it.
PINSKY: I see.
SEDAGHATFAR: But, he went on the record back in 2014 and talked about the fact --
PINSKY: Another case. I want to bring up another case. Another big case against Bill Cosby. This is Chloe Goins, she sued Cosby in October
claiming that he had drugged and sexually abused her at the Playboy Mansion in 2008. Today, Ms. Goins dropped that lawsuit without explanation.
Prosecutors decided not to file criminal charges in the case. Do you guys smell a settlement? Anybody?
BLOOM: No.
SEDAGHATFAR: No?
PINSKY: What?
SEDAGHATFAR: From my understanding --
ERIN FOSTER, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Why?
PINSKY: Yes, why not?
BLOOM: I will tell you why not, because I represent Janice Dickinson. I am very tapped in to all of the lawyers and all of these cases. Cosby is
not settling these cases. I think what happened -- just my speculation. I do not know.
But I think what happened is she had a major statute of limitations problem. And, probably she knew that if she pursued the case, they are
going to get the case thrown out and get an attorney`s fee against her, so she has to dismiss.
SEDAGHATFAR: Malicious prosecution. And, I also read that there really just was not credible evidence to support her claim even in a civil court,
where you have a much lower burden of proof.
PINSKY: So, what is going on, attorneys? Counselors? Is Bill Cosby a genius diabolical planner skating these legal issues or is it all smoke and
no fire? I mean I could see why how people could start to go, "Hmm, I wonder if there is really something here?"
BLOOM: Our legal system protects perpetrators. It is very hard on the criminal side and on the civil side. I have been doing these cases for
almost 30 years. You are up against the statute of limitations, evidentiary problems, people who do not believe you, people who want to
believe a celebrity. He has teams of over 700 lawyers in one of his law firms. They are going to use every loophole they can, and they are doing
it successfully.
PINSKY: And, then your mother had another -- Gloria Allred had another big decision today as well for Judy Huth. Right?
BLOOM: Right. So, she gets another day of Bill Cosby`s deposition. Reading between the lines, I do not know. I have not spoken to her. She
has not violated anything, but reading between the lines I am sure what happened was, they objected to a lot of questions at the deposition. She
went to the court and said judge, order him to answer the questions. That was granted, now they get another one.
PINSKY: Well, I spoke to Gloria today and asked explicitly what was said in that lawsuit. I said, "Please to tell me, because --
BLOOM: The judge will not allow it.
PINSKY: The judge will not allow it. She would not compromise anything. I did not know what I was asking, frankly. You know, I was curious about -
-
(LAUGHING)
SEDAGHATFAR: Motion to compel.
PINSKY: I am curious -- Well, no, I did not ask about a motion to compel. I was curious what questions she would like answered and she would not tell
me. But, we got more to talk about.
And, later, a daycare worker is charged. This is one of the most disturbing videos I have seen in a long time. She is charged with abusing,
as you are seeing here, a 4-year-old whom she is taking care of in a daycare center. I am speechless. And, she says, "Oh, no, it is not how it
looks." Oh, yes, we will see about that. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASTOR: I thought he was lying. I thought that he was evasive, and I thought that those things would be a value if I had another piece to go
forward with. I had no corroborating evidence. I could not do a search warrant. I could not look for hairs, fibers or anything that would
corroborate because of the time delay.
And, I was given some information about other potential victims, but all of them were from far in the past and none of them had resulted in arrests.
He was setting up that if anything had gone on that it was consensual. But, I did not -- I did not think that he was truthful about that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Of course, we are talking about news in the Cosby cases today. And, a case in point here that this gentleman is making, that is of course
the D.A. from back when who testified that he had a deal with Cosby not to prosecute. But, it is a case in point to highlight the importance of
getting the report in quickly, collecting data quickly. If you think you have been raped even, please get a rape kit done. Erin, I am sure you have
to counsel people about this all the time.
FOSTER: All the time. Yes.
PINSKY: I do not understand the resistance. I know it is embarrassing and shameful and all that stuff. But, most E.R.s, most medicals are set up,
even in urgent care centers are set to be very emphatic and understanding about how to handle this.
FOSTER: Well, I think the problem that we see most often is that it is a self-shame. It is a belief that I did something wrong. And, therefore, I
am going to be judged for that.
PINSKY: For the record, ladies, do not blame yourself for someone.
FOSTER: Absolutely not.
PINSKY: Women, stop it. Women take on the responsibility for everything, even when they have been the victim of a violent crime.
BLOOM: But, they are always telling me they are shock. You know, what my clients tell me is that they were just in such shock and they just --
PINSKY: Disbelief. Denial.
FOSTER: Yes.
BLOOM: And, it took a long time to realize, "Oh my God this actually happened."
PINSKY: Yes. Yes. It is denial.
FOSTER: There is also to your point there could be an element of disassociation that happens during a trauma.
BLOOM: Yes. Yes.
FOSTER: Often times with trauma, the way to survive, the way to cope is to disassociate. And, it takes a little while to come back to reality and
wait what just happened.
PINSKY: Right. So, there is denial, which is "Hey, man! That did not happen. I do not know what happened. I am confused about it", which is a
kind of denial versus "I felt like I was out of body looking it from my mind. Not sure what was happening. I am still trying to process it." Got
-- go ahead, Joe.
PHILLIPS: I just wanted to add this. In these cases and I will just add in the cases that I believe, one of the elements was the drug element.
BLOOM: That is true.
PHILLIPS: And, so waking up and going, "Did -- no, no, no."
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes.
BLOOM: Right.
PHILLIPS: And then again --
SEDAGHATFAR: Bill Cosby a celebrity.
[21:15:00] PHILLIPS: -- not with him.
PINSKY: Yes.
PHILLIPS: Not with America`s dad. No.
BLOOM: Of course.
SEDAGHATFAR: Right.
PHILLIPS: "I must have got sick. I threw up and he washed me up. That is what happened. That is what happened."
SEDAGHATFAR: You do not think anyone is going to believe you and especially in that climate, where you know --
PINSKY: But, you do not want to believe yourself, right? We all love that man for what he did for us in that period of time. Even now, I go back and
forth, like I was telling you during the break, Lisa, I get weirdly ambivalent about what this man is going through given what he brought all
of us. And, to that point, I do not go quite as far as Eddie Griffin does, but here he is, Eddie Griffin, taking Cosby side. Listen to what he told
VLAD T.V.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EDDIE GRIFFIN, ACTOR/COMEDIAN: Did he rape these (EXPLETIVE WORD)? All of them said the same thing. "We went to the room." Why would you go to the
room of a known mad man? A. It is systematic effort to destroy every black male entertainer`s image. They want us all to have asterisks by our
name. Dr. Cosby raped 37 (EXPLETIVE WORD) and still counting. Nobody leaves this business clean. Michael Jackson (EXPLETIVE WORD) little white
children. Do you understand?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Try to tie that --
GRIFFIN: You are not going to die clean.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joseph, you are shaking your head.
PHILLIPS: Well, what are you going to say to someone who believes that white people are having meetings and discussing who they are going to get
next?
PINSKY: Who told you? Who told you we have these meetings?
(LAUGHING)
PHILLIPS: And, conveniently he leaves out a lot of people who are clean. Sidney Poitier, Denzel Washington and you can go down the list of a lot of
people -- you do not have them being paraded. Jamie Foxx, they are not being paraded in front of the cameras doing the perp walk.
BLOOM: And, he also conveniently leaves out Beverly Johnson and all of the African-American women, who are accusing Cosby of rape.
PINSKY: Yes .
PHILLIPS: What about them? Exactly.
PINSKY: I am certainly not going to defend any of this, but it is an interesting phenomenon that I think Eddie is sort of responding to, which
is that I think this started in Britain with the rags there, at the celebrity press there, is that somebody who presents himself as a paradigm
of virtue is somebody that must be torn down.
(LAUGHING)
It must be exposed for being a human being, for having something on the underbelly. And, here is Bill Cosby who is America`s dad, we are going to
get him. And, so, I think Eddie is on to something, which is we have this weird need to tear people down. That black man, just anybody who says,
"Hey, I am going to tell you how you ought to live your life then we are going to get you." No, Joe, you think?
PHILLIPS: No. I am kind of agreeing -- I am not agreeing with Eddie Griffin. I think that what he said is ridiculous. But, I do believe that
this need -- I do not want to say the need to attack Bill, but I think some of one element of this occurred after he began making speeches --
PINSKY: Yes.
PHILLIPS: -- and standing up and talking about black poor people et cetera. And, then people started going, "Wait a minute, what makes you so
great?" And, the long history of people knowing that he had been philandering for 50 years, then they go "We know stuff about you. How are
you going to talk to us like that?" And, then of course, social media came into play and he --
SEDAGHATFAR: It is interesting because --
PHILLIPS: Snowballed --
SEDAGHATFAR: That is the same rational the judge used last summer when he released that sealed deposition testimony.
PINSKY: Yes.
SEDAGHATFAR: He said because Bill Cosby holds himself out as this moralist and then he is being accused of sexually assaulting I think up to 50 women,
I am going to release this testimony because the public has a right to know. He does not have an expectation of privacy. So, that is very
interesting that you made that point. I found that ruling very perplexing. I did not agree with the judge`s ruling because I worried about the
slippery slope. Your favorite word, Dr. Drew.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: It is not a slippery slope. That is what they threw up in the door by people who just having their cases cracked open --
SEDAGHATFAR: Absolutely. I did not like that rational.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: There this is going to surprise you but I actually do identify with some of what Eddie says, because would you have a lot of racism in our
culture. And, it is true that -- you know, I think people are more likely to believe certain -- like violent crimes against an African-American
person. I think what he is saying is, you know, I want to believe in Bill Cosby because he was such an icon especially in the black community. I do
not want him to be taken down --
PINSKY: Absolutely.
BLOOM: Because there is so much racism and it is so painful.
(LAUGHING)
PHILLIP: That is not what it is --
BLOOM: And, I think we all agree with that.
PINSKY: No? You do not think so.
BLOOM: I think that is the core of what he is saying.
PHILLIPS: If Eddie was saying that, he would have said that. He says there is a conspiracy, a white conspiracy to bring down every single famous
black entertainer. That is simply not true. Then he lists a whole bunch of people who probably would not have been walking in front of the cameras
had there not been some evidence of guilt.
SEDAGHATFAR: Uh-huh. Right.
PHILLIPS: So, you know, if you --
BLOOM: Unless this white entertainers and white figures that get taken down.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Well, that is a good point. But, I think it is really about people --
PHILLIPS: It is the Illuminati.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: It is the Illuminati.
SEDAGHATFAR: Specifically.
PINSKY: Joseph, you have been following me around. The illuminati --
(LAUGHING)
PHILLIPS: And, by the way, the Illuminati has been trying to get a hold of me. My number is --
(LAUGHING)
[21:20:00] PINSKY: All right. Next up. Next up. I got to switch to something frankly -- this is more disturbing to me. This is a lot of
disturbing stuff we are talking about tonight, but this is particularly disturbing, because this is abuse of children and this is -- if you want to
look at the problem of our time, this is where so much starts.
A video of what it looks like is happening is a daycare worker abusing a child. She says they are just playing rough. Believe her or your lying
eyes, I do not know. We will show you the video. You see what you think. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (voice-over): Cell phone video appears to show the director of a daycare beating a 4-year-old, who was napping. And,
then this, she lifts him 3 feet off the ground and slams him down. Kimberly Reid has been charged with child abuse. The video was taken by
one of Reid`s co-workers, who told police, "This was not the first time abuse occurred."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:25:03] PINSKY: Kimberly told investigators she was just playing rough with the child. Back with Anahita, Lisa, Erin and Joseph. Playing rough,
Lisa. I mean, here is my basic take on this. If she was just playing rough, number one, if I am the administrator of that daycare, I am
mortified at the liability at this woman has put us in front of, number one. It does not look like playing rough, and if that is your idea of
playing rough, do not play with kids. Do not play with little kids.
BLOOM: Yes. Listen. First of all, thank God the co-worker had aware of all to pulled out a cell phone and make a quick video. Every daycare
should have cameras in every room where there are little children, especially preverbal children or little kids who do not really speak very
clearly on their own behalf.
Parents should be able to see and many of them do have this via webcam what is happening all the time. That will eliminate this kind of problem. But,
get your hands off this kid. Stop beating this kid. Are you kidding me? And this have really long-term damage for this poor kid.
FOSTER: Absolutely.
PINSKY: Whenever a child feels like their body is under assault or the possibility of them going on being is in jeopardy, even if you are playing
rough, that is trauma.
FOSTER: Trauma.
PINSKY: That is trauma.
FOSTER: Trauma. Absolutely. Not to mention the trauma that the children are experiencing observing this, because they cannot differentiate if this
is going to happen to me or is this real, is this not real.
PINSKY: Or am I going to witness somebody I have affection for getting hurt.
FOSTER: And, this person is supposed to be a safe object and at this age, children learn by a person being an object. And, if you are a safe object
is dangerous, that goes into the hard wiring of these kids.
SEDAGHATFAR: It is a 4-year-old, Dr. Drew. That was a 4-year-old. And, you talk about the liability issue, clearly this is criminal. She will be
prosecuted in some way for what she did. But, then you look at the exposure of the daycare center, because apparently, this woman, she was not
only one of the workers there, she was a supervisor. And, she has a rap sheet longer than my arm.
PINSKY: Yes. I will tell you what she has done.
SEDAGHATFAR: She has criminal connection.
PINSKY: Not as long as your arm, but --
SEDAGHATFAR: OK. Half as long.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: She got a welfare fraud in 2004, food stamp fraud and 2012 embezzled from her previous daycare job, grand theft. And, you know --
SEDAGHATFAR: Right. She is on probation. So, a simple Google search by this daycare owner would have shown that this woman clearly has a troubled
history. She is a criminal. And, so, I anticipate that the family of this boy, as they should, will file a civil lawsuit.
PINSKY: And, the family -- I will let you in a sec talk, Joe, but this family said something I found very curious. The father of the boy said --
this is as close to a quote as I understand, maybe we can take -- it is my understanding of what he said, "I have not given permission to the daycare
to physically discipline my child." My question is, is there such a thing?
BLOOM: Oh, yes.
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes.
PINSKY: What?
BLOOM: Corporal punishment.
PINSKY: You are allowed to leave him with that daycare.
BLOOM: And, it is legal, I think in about half of the states, sure.
PINSKY: Are you -- in California?
PHILLIPS: No. It is not legal in California.
(CROSSTALKS)
SEDAGHATFAR: Not in California.
PHILLIPS: You cannot touch a kid in California.
SEDAGHATFAR: Right.
PINSKY: Help us.
PHILLIPS: No, spank -- spanking you can be prosecuted in California. But throwing your kid --
SEDAGHATFAR: If it is not open handed.
PHILLIPS: Oh, I thought even if it was open handed.
BLOOM: Open handed.
PHILLIPS: Well, you cannot spank with a closed hand. That is called punching.
SEDAGHATFAR: Right.
PHILLIPS: That is throwing down on the ground. That is not disciplining. I raised three boys in the process of still raising three boys. I am a big
guy. We played rough. I never threw my kids down on the ground -- well that is on a mattress. But, you do not throw people down.
You might toss them up and catch them. Kids love that. One clue to why that is not play is you do not hear the squeals of laughter from the 4-
year-old, which you would have if he was enjoying it.
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes.
PINSKY: As well, I am going to maybe read between the lines of the video I am watching here. The child seems frozen to me. He seems frozen solid.
Freeze response is trauma once again. It is what the body does when it is shutting down to try to survive. Try to be unseen when there is really a
lethal attack going on. Now the co-worker who shot the video told CPS, Child Protective Services, that the abuse had been going on for three
weeks. Three weeks of this. This is in Florida, right?
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes.
PINSKY: You guys are telling me that corporal punishment is OK in Florida. I am sorry, but you harm a kid or have them scared they are going to be
harmed, you created someone that is going to be a problem to society.
SEDAGHATFAR: But that is child abuse. That is not discipline.
PINSKY: Yes.
SEDAGHATFAR: The video speaks for itself. That defense is not going to work in any court of law, Dr. Drew. That is plain and simple child abuse.
And, yes, the department that oversees these daycare centers should be held liable as well. This woman had a criminal record. Clearly, she is
troubled.
PINSKY: So, CPS. CPS oversees the daycare services.
SEDAGHATFAR: Right. I am saying --
PINSKY: So, Child Protective Services should be --
SEDAGHATFAR: They should be held liable and guess what? -- Yes, I am sorry, were you going to say something?
PINSKY: She is just saying yes. Go ahead.
(LAUGHING)
PHILLIPS: I think we are all in agreement.
[21:30:00] SEDAGHATFAR: I think in a civil lawsuit -- because you want to teach a lesson. You want other daycare owners to learn from this and that
is why you go to civil court partly to get monetary damages but also to teach a lesson to others.
FOSTER: I think we also have to increase the awareness to parents, right?
BLOOM: Yes.
FOSTER: Like DCFS is failing you, so your job as a parent is to protect your child. If you are trusting --
BLOOM: But, how do you do that when they are in daycare and you are at word? You do not trust daycare.
FOSTER: Because you need to do your research. You, the parent --
PINSKY: Or can you put the cameras in?
BLOOM: That is what I mean about the webcams. I mean, my best friend whose kids are in daycare, she is checking that webcam randomly all through
the day.
PINSKY: It is on your phone.
BLOOM: Of course. There are apps.
PINSKY: There are proper ways to do that on your phone.
BLOOM: And, it is very cheap. Webcams are very cheap now. No excuse not to have it.
PINSKY: All right. Well, speaking of parents, we have the mother of one of the other children in this daycare system. One of the moms is here and
she got questions. We got questions for her.
Later on, three black women, three African-American women say they were attacked by a white mob on a bus. I cannot believe this still goes on
today. I want to know more about this. We are going to look into that. We are back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:35:15] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
"Daycare worker caught on camera allegedly abusing a 4-year-old."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Kimberly Reid was the director of a daycare in Florida hitting a 4-year-old with stuffed animals and slamming him on the ground. I am back
with Anahita, Lisa, Erin and Josephl. Here is something I got to say, because I looked at my tweet. You have got to be kidding me. In 2016, we
are still this -- Erin, is it not true that every shred of research ever done in physical abuse shows an increase in behavioral problems
particularly as you get towards hitting with objects.
FOSTER: Yes.
PINSKY: If you want criminal behavior, hitting with objects, yes.
FOSTER: Yes.
PINSKY: If you want problems in relationships, hitting, yes.
FOSTER: Yes.
PINSKY: If you want problems socially functioning or occupation functioning, if you hit a child the problem goes up.
FOSTER: Yes.
PINSKY: It is overwhelming in the medical literature that this is the case. How in 2016 people can question this is shocking to me. Now, we are
not talking about spanking. Spanking, in sort of hitting with an open hand, smacking kind of stuff is not good, most everyone agrees on that.
But, it is not as directly correlated with problem.
Even if people become hyper achievers, they have behavioral and interpersonal issues because of physical abuse in childhood. 100 percent
of the patients I treated for addiction had physical abuse, sexual abuse, neglect. They had the combo 100 percent.
It would get to the point where every patient I brought into the hospital, I have to say, "Were you hit when you were a child?" "No, I was not. I
was disciplined like everybody else." And, I have to go, "OK. Did anybody hit you?" "No, no, no. Well, maybe. Yes, a little bit." "They hit you
with an object?" "Yeah, yeah with a belt or a bat or hatchet." "OK." And, people that have been physically affected like that stay in denial
about it. Joseph?
PHILLIPS: I was going to say part of it is the culture of the good old days. Old school discipline, where I used to go out and grab a switch for
my grandma and that is the way we used to do it. Let me tell you.
First of all, I agree with you, but there are also emotional scars that stay with you, because that is the way I was brought up. I was talking to
my kids once about this, and I found myself starting to choke up and tear and that was when I knew no more.
BLOOM: Right.
PHILLIPS: This idea that it was great to, you know, get a piece of wood and beat your kid. It is horrible, horrible, horrible.
PINSKY: It is intergenerational transmission of trauma.
FOSTER: Right.
PINSKY: I was talking to Danine Manette about this. I said what percentage of people you served in jail had physical abuse -- 100 percent.
So, everybody, just think about that. Now, as it pertains to that particular daycare, I got one of the parents on the phone, Katie Phillips.
Her 2-year-old son attended that daycare. Katie, thank you for joining us, first of all.
KATIE PHILLIPS, SON ATTENDED DAYCARE CENTER: No problem.
PINSKY: Now, when this video surfaced, were you worried that something might have happened to your son?
KATIE PHILLIPS: Absolutely. Actually, the morning, it was Monday morning I went to take Logan to daycare and I did not know anything about it. I
just saw the door and it had the sign. And, actually a gentleman walking through the plaza let me know what happened. And, I got to work, thinking
it was an owner that I had never seen that had never been around my son.
I found other arrangements for Logan and then end up getting to work. And, seeing the mug shot and seeing exactly who it was that it was Kim. This
woman that I trusted for the last year of my son`s life, to watch my son and care for him while I have been away at work.
I am a young mom and I do not trust anyone with my son and now this has -- this has caused my anxiety levels of daycare to go through the roof. You
know, I trusted her. She signed all the receipts. Everything, I had so much contact with this woman and she seemed to be so nice and pleasant and
it is just terrible.
PINSKY: Now, you guys all said -- Katie in the last block before you came on, we were talking about the parent`s responsibility. You guys said the
parents, got to put cameras -- how do --
BLOOM: Well, nobody is blaming her. I mean, of course, we are blaming this woman who is picking up and throwing this little child who is about
half or a third her size. And, you know, what are you teaching a child when you discipline them physically.
You are teaching them that hitting is a good solution to a problem. That when you are angry at somebody, you had problem with somebody, you should
react with physical violence. It is exactly the opposite.
SEDAGHATFAR: And it is a cycle. It is the cycle that the gift that keeps on giving like I bet she suffered the same type of trauma.
PINSKY: Of course.
SEDAGHATFAR: A hundred percent.
PINSKY: But, it affects the trajectory of this organ`s development. How it develops this insular cortex, the stress system is altered by these
experiences. And, Katie, my understanding is you had some questions for me. Go ahead.
[21:40:00] KATIE PHILLIPS: Well, I am just wondering should I
KATIE PHILLIPS: Well, I am just wondering should I be concerned about -- even if Logan was not actually abused. I have my suspicions or whatever,
but what has -- what he seen, is this going to affect him?
PINSKY: You should be concerned about what he seen but kids are pretty resilient provided that there has not been something shattering that had
happened to him. Let us bet that he was not the object of this. Certainly ask around, if he was, you might at some point might get a professional
assessment.
But, just seeing it and being around somebody that is dangerous raises kids anxiety level, reparation, repairing, giving that child a safe environment
can just work wonders. And, they can get better very fast. Erin, you agree?
FOSTER: Yes. I was going to say, corrective experience, Katie. So, as a mom, I feel for you completely. And, I would say if you have concerns
about it, I would create containment and safe space for your child and that is what will create a corrective experience for him about adult. And,
teaching him about safe people, safe places. All parents, all adults, teach your children safe people, safe places, what does that look like?
PINSKY: Kaie, I really appreciate you coming in. I think things would be fine. I would not panic about this for sure. I am sorry, guys, you have
to go through this. I am so proud -- not proud. I am so pleased with the woman that did record this.
BLOOM: Yes. Bravo.
PINSKY: Please thank her for everyone in your community, OK?
KATIE PHILLIPS: Yes, of course. She was actually my son`s favorite teacher and I am going to work with authorities to keep in contact with
her.
PINSKY: Also a good sign for your son and for your relationship with him that he picks good people to be attracted to. So, next up -- thank you,
Katie.
Next up, students rally in support of three women who say they were subject into a racial attack on a bus. Disbelief. That is all I can say. In 2016
this, too? Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO LCIP)
[21:46:12] ASHA BURWELL, AFRICAN-AMERICAN FEMALE: We are shocked, upset but will remain unbroken. We are proud of who we are. Black women.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Three black female college students from Albany, New York say they were attacked by a group of white men and women
aboard a public bus. According to officials who saw cell phone video of the confrontation, it began with racial slurs and became physical once the
bus was on campus. One woman said she was kicked and punched by white males while she laid on the floor of the bus. She said no one tried to
stop it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED AFRICAN-AMERICAN FEMALE: We demand that those all Albany students, who committed this hate crimes based on racism and sexism be
expelled immediately.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Two of three women were treated for minor abrasions on their face. Campus police have identified 34 people, students, who were possibly
involved. They say there is no evidence of any continued unrest of threat, but the issues far from resolved among the students.
They are demanding the following: Expulsion of alleged attackers as you heard. Sensitivity training; campus police sensitivity training, so police
were involved in this too for some reason; curriculum changes, hiring more minority faculty administrators. Joining me now, Areva Martin, Attorney,
legal consultant. I still got Lisa, Erin and Joseph with me. Am I being naive to be in disbelief of this? Am I being naive of this?
AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY AND LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, I was shocked but not really, Dr. Drew. You know, we have been talking about everything that is
happening on college campuses, all the protest, the Mizzou campus, Yale and just campuses across this country.
And, whenever I talk about students coming together and standing up and trying to make changes happen on campuses, I get a lot of push back. And,
people say these students are whiny. They are babies and the campuses are not there to coddle them. So, I think that attitude that we are seeing
when students do stand up is being demonstrated by this vicious attack on these African-American women.
And, I think what is so appalling to me, all the people on the bus that watch and did nothing to help these women. They are talking about maybe 34
people were involved somehow in this. And, they said people stood there, watched them be called the "N" word, physically assaulted and not person
tried to stop it.
PINSKY: These are other students, other white -- I cannot believe this.
MARTIN: They are being pretty closed lip about the motive, although we know it is racial because the "N" word is used. We know racial epithets
were used during the attack but we are not hearing much about who is involved.
We have to assume they are students, because one of the claims by the African-American women is that the students be expelled. So, it is clear
that they know in some ways who their attackers were and they know that they are related to or somehow attached to the university.
PINSKY: Perfectly reasonable for these students to be expelled. Well, am I wrong to be in disbelief?
PHILLIPS: listen, I was in a bit of shock, as well, but I think I need more information.
PINSKY: Yes, me too.
BLOOM: Yes.
PHILLIPS: I am not seeing a video, although, you do not always have to have a video but --
PINSKY: Well, it was caught on video. It was caught on video.
PHILLIPS: No, but I have not seen the video.
PINSKY: Yes.
PHILLIPS: That is what I am saying. I know there are videos and there is world star hip-hop, why has this not come across my feed is what I am
asking?
PINSKY: It has not been released yet. There is no way to know what has exactly happened there.
PHILLIPS: But, there was cell phone video. They said there was cell phone video. Listen. Any time people are being beat, kicked. This is a
horrible thing and even if it was not racial --
PINSKY: Right.
PHILLIPS: People who are beating folk on the ground need to be disciplined and perhaps almost probably expelled.
PINSKY: Sure.
PHILLIPS: But, I do not know, they said it started with an argument of some sort. So, this leads me to believe that it may not have been racially
motivated although it became --
BLOOM: Yes. But, listen, obviously, once the "N" word gets thrown around, it is racial. And, Dr. Drew, as much as I love you, there is two things I
think we know here. Number one is we need more information.
[21:50:00] PINSKY: Yes.
BLOOM: Number two is this is very possible. OK? We do not know what happened yet, but we do know that we live in a culture with a lot of racism
and that all of the studies about implicit racial bias among whites for example, this has a very high level of racial bias --
PINSKY: Yes, but this is not about micro-aggression.
BLOOM: But that explains the people who sat by allegedly and did nothing as if this really was --
PINSKY: Yes. But, that is a bystander affect.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: As racist assaults were going next to them, they do not seem to do anything?
PHILLIPS: We do not know --
MARTIN: Take race out of it. What happens when you see three -- and that is what these women said. Look, black women deserve respect no matter who
they are. So, the fact if you have three women on a bus who are helpless, defenseless and no one comes to the rescue. Put race aside. Let us talk
about --
PHILLIPS: I agree with you.
BLOOM: I do not think we cannot put race aside.
MARTIN: But I am just talking --
BLOOM: You think if they were three white women that the people on the bus would have let them get assaulted?
MARTIN: I do not think if they were three white women, they would not have been assaulted. We would not even be at this point if there were white
women --
BLOOM: But, I think people would have come to their aid.
MARTIN: Well, people would have come to their aid and we would not be sitting here now debating whether someone should have come to their aid and
whether racism exist --
PHILLIPS: There is no debate about whether someone should have come to their aid. There is no debate. We are all in agreement that someone
should have come.
MARTIN: Well, that is not necessarily the case when you look at the Twitter feeds, you look at social media --
BLOOM: Yes.
PHILLIPS: You are not talking about us as a panel.
MARTIN: No, no, no. Not you as a panel. I know everyone on this panel agrees. This is horrible. And, somebody should have stood up --
PHILLIPS: This is a smart panel.
MARTIN: This is a very smart panel. There are people that are not as smart as we are and saying somehow these women did not deserve the respect
that we all agree they absolutely does --
PHILLIPS: I think humans, any human deserves that --
BLOOM: People.
PHILLIPS: Exactly, people. It is humanity, you do not let people be on the ground being kicked and beaten. Somebody for whatever reason should
have stopped and said, "Cool it, enough."
PINSKY: Agreed. I have to take a quick break. But, I think if everyone examines their feelings about, let us talk about just women and not
African-American women, does that change how you feel about this attack? Just examine your souls.
That is implicit racism if you feel differently about one versus the other and examine it. That is what we have to all do. We got more. I got an
interesting tape about the first man. That is coming up. I will show you after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BURWELL: We stand here with strength because we value our worth as black women and as human beings in general.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED AFRICAN-AMERICAN FEMALE: Here lies the problem. This occurrence is not anything new. Black women have been squashed under the
palms of the white men and women`s hands.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Three black female college students said they have been attacked by a dozen white men and women, who assaulted them physically and then used
racial slurs. I am back with Areva, Lisa, Erin and Joseph. And, I for one having trouble believing on politically correct campuses throughout this
country, where they are so sensitive -- I mean, PC principals in charge.
BLOOM: In Albany, you think it is over ran with PC principals. I do not know that.
PINSKY: Listen. I am just saying that it is shocking to me. It is shocking to me that this is going on. I am going to show you something
here, though. This is a producer, a friend of mine. A producer, Ami Horowitz. He brought a petition to the campus of Yale University, I
believe I have a Yale in the panel with me. This is your alma mater, Lisa. And, he asked students about repealing the first amendment. Watch this
from YouTube.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMI HOROWITZ, PRODUCER: So, we are calling for is to repeal the first amendment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: I think it is fantastic.
HOROWITZ: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Excellent.
HOROWITZ: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Love it.
HOROWITZ: Thank you.
(LAUGHING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: I will sign it for you.
HOROWITZ: I appreciate it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: I appreciate what you are trying to do.
HOROWITZ: I feel the constitution should be one big safe space, right? I do not want to hurt people`s feelings.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Yes. I know.
HOROWITZ: It should not be protected speech.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: I totally agree.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So, they are asking for all the elimination of freedom of speech, so people`s feelings are protected.
BLOOM: Yes.
PINSKY: These precious feelings are protected. Well, yes, why?
MARTIN: I am not going to defend the Yale graduates as a Harvard graduate, but I will say that, that is just a small segment of very smart students.
And, I think his point was to say "Well, students are out there signing petitions even when they do not make a whole lot of sense.
BLOOM: Right.
MARTIN: But, I think that is just a tiny fraction and most students are very informed, very knowledgeable and they are signing petitions that make
sense.
BLOOM: Can I stick up for my bulldogs?
PINSKY: No. not yet.
(LAUGHING)
PHILLIPS: Very quickly. Very quickly, I agree people will sign anything. But I also believe that on a college campuses, there are segments of
students that actually believe that.
PINSKY: Yes. I agree.
PHILLIPS: And, finally, I want to say this is one reason I told my wife for the last 25 years, I do not sign petitions.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Because there might be a camera rolling.
PHILLIPS: Exactly.
BLOOM: But, this is in whole foods. This is Yale University, right? So, shame on you folks. Listen. Hate speech is illegal in much of Europe.
Maybe that is what people were thinking.
PINSKY: I believe it is illegal here.
BLOOM: No, we have the first amendment. And, so people can say nasty, dirty, as long as you are not making a criminal threat.
PINSKY: I see.
BLOOM: You can make for example racist comments. It is not illegal. The first amendment protects that.
PINSKY: Now, racist --
BLOOM: If these are very sophisticated Yales, maybe that is what they are thinking through and maybe just signing whatever was --
MARTIN: I do not think --
BLOOM: By the way, the first amendment also protects freedom of religion, freedom of assembly. So, we really want it. I was in court today arguing
for the first amendment. We do not want to repeal it.
PINSKY: All right.
MARTIN: Those students signing anything, Lisa.
BLOOM: And, they would do it at Harvard, too.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: But, I showed you that for just to show how sensitive -- how far people have come on college campuses where the opposite of that is the
behavior we are talking about tonight, where it is not just overly sensitive. It is objectively insensitive it seems like. So, I am like
Joseph. I want more information.
There is nothing OK about it. I am not saying there is anything OK about what happened, but I want to understand how it happened, particularly in
this day and age on a college campus. Please DVR us then you can watch us any time. I appreciate you watching. I appreciate this panel. You guys
did a great job and we will see you next time.
[22:00:10] (MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
END
