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Dr. Drew
Erin Andrews Breaks Down at Stalker`s Trial; 23-Year-Old Ukrainian Man Allegedly Posed as High School Student; Shocking Video: Mother Believed to be High on Synthetic Cannabinoids. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired March 01, 2016 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTPE)
[21:00:13] DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST OF "DR. DREW" PROGRAM: Tonight, Erin Andrews breaks down on the stand at her stalker trial. Should she get $75
million to punish those involved? Plus, another fake high school student. This time, it is a 23-year-old man whom police say was sleeping with a 15-
year-old classmate.
Let us get started with sportscaster Erin Andrews, suing a hotel and the peeping tom for $75 million. She was videotaped naked through a peephole
in the door to her room. There is a lot to be told to you all about how he figured out how to do this. And, the video was then posted to the
internet, viewed millions of times. She says she will never get over it. What do you think? Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIN ANDREWS, FOX SPORTSCASTER: You do not realize how long four minutes is until it is your naked body. You are getting dressed for a football
game. So, I look at the Marriott as more damaging because it is four and a half minutes of my personal private time, absolutely naked.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAULA ANDREWS, ERIN ANDREWS` MOTHER: I heard her say naked. "I am naked, dad. They have got me, I am naked. I am naked. What about my career?
What about my life?"
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIN ANDREWS: My dad was like, he thought he had been in a car accident. He said, "Why are you screaming?" I am just like, "Dad, I am naked all
over the internet. I do not know what it is ."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIN ANDREWS: My biggest fear was just this was -- the longer it was on the internet, it was going to blow up and blow up and blow up and go viral.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joining us Sam Schacher, "Pop Trigger" on Hulu.com; Tanya Acker, Attorney, host of "Hot Bench." Loni Coombs, Attorney; Darren Kavinoky,
Attorney, host of "Deadly Sins" on investigation discovery and Erica America, Psychotherapist, T.V. and radio host. Now, this woman is shaken
for sure, but Darren, $75 million, is that appropriate?
DARREN KAVINOKY, ATTORNEY: Yes. Look, I think she is going to have a hard time talking to jurors, people that represent a cross section of the local
community and saying to them, "I deserve $75 million."
Some of them, most of them who I am imagining work regular kind of work-a- day jobs are going to be saying, "Hang on. The kind of indignities I put up with are very different. Get over it, girl," is what they may be
thinking. I blame her lawyer for that.
PINSKY: Her lawyer --
LONI COOMBS, ATTORNEY: I blame her lawyer for that, because he is the one who came up with that number.
PINSKY: Yes.
COOMBS: They could have a number attached and the court that you have to put out a number. He just threw out $75 million. I am sure it got a lot
of people`s attention. It got the media focused on it. All the headlines are $75 million lawsuit, but it turns jurors right off from the beginning.
PINSKY: Now, the same lawyer --
SAM SCHACHER, HOST OF "POP TRIGGER" ON HULU.COM: But, why --
PINSKY: Now, the same guy asked about accusations that she had made this video merely to get attention, comparing it to someone who makes a sex
tape. Look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIN ANDREWS: Probably for like three months, everybody thought it was a publicity stunt. The front page of the "New York Post" said ESPN scandal.
To Fox News and CBS, everybody put out that I was doing it for publicity and attention and that ripped me apart.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIN ANDREWS: It was everywhere. And, it was a publicity stunt. You know, ESPN scandal. She is doing this for herself. My naked body was on
the front page of the "New York Post" like they have put bars over my body parts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: All right, Sam. Now, the fact is though, I barely really kind of knew who Erin Andrews was before the big scandal. And, I am a sports fan,
but she gets a big contract with ESPN. She is now hosting "Dancing With The Stars." You see how somebody could make that case, right?
SCHACHER: Well, right. It did help her career. She was on "Dancing With The Stars" immediately, I think within a month that this happened. But,
just because it helped her career, does not mean -- if there was a positive impact on her career, it does not mean it is a positive impact on her.
Clearly, she --
KAVINOKY: It is called the versus coincidence.
COOMBS: Wait, wait, wait. I read her testimony that she already had that agreement. They are already working on the contract with "Dancing With The
Stars."
SCHACHER: OK.
COOMBS: So, that did not come up because of scandal.
PINSKY: All right. Judge Acker. Judge Acker on the bench. So, we are making the case. What are we going to do with this? What are you going to
do? We are making the case -- forget the fact that she did well afterwards.
It was just coincidence. The fact that she was traumatized. She is doing horribly. This poor woman has not gotten over this. And, she said that
her body is smeared all over the "New York Post." Really, would you like that?
TANYA ACKER, ATTORNEY: I am not going to make any judgment on the proprietary.
PINSKY: But, you are a judge.
ACKER: I believe her lawyers can -- you know, they can make the argument. I think, though, that we are giving a little bit of short shrift to the
nature of the intrusion here. I mean, look, we all take for granted having a certain degree of privacy.
PINSKY: Yes.
ACKER: To be flirtatiously photographed in the nude and then to have that broadcast and seen millions and millions of times, I really do not know how
to quantify that, frankly.
SCHACHER: I agree.
PINSKY: And, if you guys want to get creeped out, can we jump ahead to the video that the guy explains -- the guy that did the peeping explains how he
figured out how to do this? Apparently, he watched a how to sort of explanation, because this happens frequently enough.
[21:05:08] Here it is . He explains how he got the idea to watch through a peephole. This is going to -- If you guys do not want to give her the
$75 million, see how you feel after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE ATTORNEY: You came up with this idea on your own of how to remove a view port from a hotel room door, is that correct?
MICHAEL DAVID BARRETT, ANDREWS STALKER WHO VIDEOTAPED HER NAKED IN HER HOTEL ROOM: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE ATTORNEY: OK. How did you come up with the idea?
BARRETT: As I testified earlier in deposition, I saw a bellman doing it at a hotel I stayed at in the past.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE ATTORNEY: So, you saw an employee of a hotel removing a view port of a hotel room door, is that correct?
BARRETT: That is correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE ATTORNEY: But, did you, Mr. Barrett, come up with the way to remove a peephole or view port from a hotel room door to spy on
somebody?
BARRETT: That is what the -- that is what the employee was doing, when I saw it. So, it was his idea and I stole it from him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE ATTORNEY: How do you know the employee was spying on somebody?
BARRETT: I was watching him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE ATTORNEY: Did the employee tell you he was spying on somebody?
BARRETT: No, I did not even talk to him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: You guys probably freaked out now?
SCHACHER: I mean, can you imagine how violative that must feel for her? I understand why she is paranoid.
PINSKY: But, wait a minute. Wait a minute. A bellman at a hotel he stayed at, not this hotel, showed him how to do it.
SCHACHER: I am not surprised.
PINSKY: What?
SCHACHER: I am not surprised.
PINSKY: I am shocked.
SCHACHER: We had a woman here last week tell us that after the Erin Andrews thing at a different Marriott hotel as well, the one that she went
in, they tried kind of like called and --
PINSKY: Lisa Guerrero
COOMBS: Investigative reporter.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: Lisa Guerrero did it. Yes.
SCHACHER: She called and tried to you know disguised as someone else, tried to make it look like, "OK, can I check into this person`s room" and
sure enough, they allowed her to do it again. There is no protocol.
KAVINOKY: Legally, they would better find a way to get the hotel on the hook for this or they are not going to get any money, because that guy,
Barrett, does not look like he has a pot to tinkle in and nor a window to throw it out her.
PINSKY: Erica, now, that the attorneys were all bummed out because there is no deep pocket here. Let us talk about the reality of the PTSD this
poor woman is experiencing.
ERICA AMERICA, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: OK. Yes. Absolutely. There are two is sues here. The first one is this is a sexual assault, OK? We have to look
at what is going on with this woman. It does not matter that it was not physical abuse. I think People are kind of stuck on, "Oh, she did not get
molested." "What happened to Kesha?" And, I am pro-Kesha," trust me, that as well.
But, this is similar. She has PTSD. She has a lot of effects that are going to affect her the rest of her life. And, we have to say that this
was an intrusion on her part -- and this was a sexual assault, number one.
Does it mean that she should get $75 million? That is the part two. So, the two do not match-up. Yes, I think that she had a sexual assault, but
why is the $75 million -- it does not add up to me, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: But Erica, you would agree that there is a liability here. This woman was assaulted in an institution.
AMERICA: No. There is a liability. She should be -- She definitely needs to be reimbursed somehow for her pain and suffering. It is real. You and
I know that.
PINSKY: Yes.
AMERICA: You understand that, that even something like this and I think the woman who just spoke before that, it is . Imagine being in your own
shower taped naked --
PINSKY: Yes.
AMERICA: And, who knows what kind of body image is sues you have, whatever it may be. It is hard to see a pretty woman saying, "Oh, my God, I am all
over the internet." But that is huge. Who would want to be naked all over the internet. That is extremely -- you know it is humiliating.
PINSKY: It is a violation.
AMERICA: Yes. It is a violation, 100 percent.
PINSKY: All right. Later on -- we are going to keep this going. But, later, an imposter. Police say this high school student -- high school
student was actually a 23-year-old man illegal immigrant, who was sleeping with a 15-year-old classmate. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIN ANDREWS: I did nothing wrong. That was the beginning of one of my first meltdowns with this whole thing. And, I just -- I did not
understand. I was not the story. Help us find this person. Help us understand why this could happen instead of coming after me.
I understand you have a story to cover, but it is almost like you are glorifying it. Hey, check out this video. Check out these pictures.
There was no need to show those. I am a crime victim. I did not want to share those pictures or those videos with anyone at all.
And, I really felt like the focus needed to be on how could video viewerism happen? Why is this allowed to happen? How do we find this person and why
are you allowed to keep this stuff on the internet?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That interview was Oprah Winfrey`s interview of Erin Andrews, her first public appearance since nude videos of her were exposed online. It
is interesting we hear her speak there. It was long enough ago that she was sort of confused about how things get on the internet, stay there, how
they are allowed to stay there.
I think we all understand now that once things get up there, that is it. You cannot get them down. They are out. Erin says ESPN required her to do
a televised interview about the scandal before they allowed her to return to her job. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE ATTORNEY: So, did ESPN require that you give an interview?
ERIN ANDREWS: Yes, because there was not an arrest, because we did not know where this happened. My bosses at ESPN told me before you go back on
air for college football, we need you to give us a sit-down interview. And, that was the only way I would be allowed back.
I did not want it to be a two-second thing or like "Was this a scandal or was this not?" No, this is my life and I feel terrible about myself, and
we want to figure out how this happened. So, I did not want to do it. I did not want to be a part of it.
And, I just said, you know what? I know because she is very public about it, Oprah is a crime victim. I talked to her producers. I told her I did
not want to do it, but this is the only way I would be put back on air. And, so, we went to the Oprah show.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Now, ESPN has a comment. They say developments in the case have been interpreted by some to mean that ESPN was unsupportive of Erin in the
aftermath of this ordeal. "Nothing could be further from the truth. We have been and continue to be supportive of Erin." We are back with Sam,
Tanya, LONI, DARREN and Erica. Darren, what do you think about ESPN`s comment there?
KAVINOKY: Yes. I am so conflicted in this case because as the father of a 14-year-old daughter, I project and personalize and I think how would I
feel if that was my girl and I would be outraged. And, yet, as a lawyer, I look at this and think, "Well, the law provides damages, monetary
compensation." How was she harmed? What are the punitive damages that might apply? And, it gets a little bit diceyer especially when you look at
her situation.
SCHACHER: How is it dicey? How is it dicey? To me, first of all, why is it anybody`s -- why does it matter what anybody thinks but the victim?
Because listen, it has taken her life from her. It has taken her life from her. She is paranoid. She I depressed and she have psychological opinions
that back this up. Not to mention when she has kids, because she says, publicly, that she wants to have kids. That lives on through them.
KAVINOKY: But, psychological issues.
ACKER: But the reality of any prayer for relief. I mean we all know this, is that when is a lawyer puts a number in, they do not really expect to get
precisely that number.
COOMB: Right.
ACKER: I mean it goes back to what I was saying at the outset. How precisely do you quantify this? So, is it $75 million? Is it $750,000?
How do you quantify it? And, then when you coupled it with the fact that she is a public person. So, not only does she have this initial intrusion
of people seeing her naked millions and millions of times, but since she is already going to have a certain number of eyes drawn to her, that is going
to heighten interest in that.
KAVINOKY: I get to you foresee it as an intrusion, but she benefited in a lot of ways.
(CROSSTALKS)
PINSKY: One at a time.
COOMBS: She is going after the hotel because that is a deep pocket. But, you have to remember that the stalker is the one who actually did this.
PINSKY: And, he has no money.
COOMBS: He has a lot of liability.
PINSKY: He cannot even get an attorney to go after him.
COOMBS: He went to prison for this for 2-1/2 years.
PINSKY: Yes.
COOMBS: I mean that is the sentence they gave him.
PINSKY: And, that is it.
COOMBS: You know, then there is the media part of it, too. She talks a lot of about how right when this happened, a lot of people stirred up,
saying this was a publicity stunt. And, for months, she could not talk about the investigation. That was a lot of emotional trauma to her, too.
PINSKY: All right. This guy, the stalker, Michael Barrett tried to sell the video to TMZ. They declined, then he posted it online for free. He is
here trying to explain that decision in his deposition. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE ATTORNEY: You posted a video on some websites?
BARRETT: I did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE ATTORNEY: for what purpose?
BARRETT: That is a great question. I really do not know why I did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE ATTORNEY: Why did you post the video of Ms. Andrews on the websites you told us about if you were not going to be paid for them?
BARRETT: That is a great question. I really have thought about it over the years. I do not have a good answer for it. I really do not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Erica, what do you think of this guy? Sex addict acting out?
AMERICA: Wait, wait.
PINSKY: Go ahead.
AMERICA: Well, I definitely think that he is, you know, the brunt of the issue. But, I want to ask Loni, who is a lawyer, though, you do not think
that the hotel by allowing this man to call and just say, can I, you know, just stay in the room next to her multiple times and never contact a woman
and say a random man is doing this? That put her in the lane for sexual abuse. They are liable for that.
PINSKY: And, to be fair, though, but Loni you asked -- and that is true and that is why there is a case here, right?
COOMBS: He was more devious than that. He did not just call and say, "Hey, can I have the room next to Erin Andrews." I mean he knew how to do
it. He was very devious about this. He went to a restaurant that was in the hotel.
He called and asked for her room number. He wanted to talk to her. When they put her room on the phone, the room number came up on the phone. So,
then he goes up to that floor, looks at her room and notices that the room next to it is being cleaned up by the maid.
He gets that room number. He goes back down to the front desk, talks to a clerk in person and says, "Hey, can I have that room number. My room is
not ready. I noticed there is another one being empty out. So, the people at the front desk may never have put together that he was trying to get
into Erin Andrews --
PINSKY: But, it was --
KAVINOKY: It was deviousness that the hotel can use to defend themselves.
COOMBS: That is right.
KAVINOKY: They got to say, we are victims, too.
PINSKY: But, it is interesting that the entire Marriott organization is not on the line for this, just this hotel is.
COOMBS: That is right.
PINSKY: Right?
COOMBS: Just the local operators.
PINSKY: Just the local operators. So --
KAVINOKY: But that has more to do with the way that Marriott does business with this individual.
PINSKY: I am just saying, the $75 million was aimed at the international - - yes, the $75 million was aimed at the international operation. The fact that it is local now brings it back in line with reality. But, let us talk
about media and its role on this. Erin on the stand spoke about media intrusion and explained some of the anxiety she has felt since the
incident.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIN ANDREWS: They were outside my townhome, and people crawling on my balcony. A lawyer had told me if somebody comes to the door that you do
not know and people are on your balcony, call 911 because it could be that person that was stalking you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE ATTORNEY: I am going to ask you some words here. And, ask you if they apply to you at all. You mentioned vomiting.
ERIN ANDREWS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE ATTORNEY: OK. Heart pounding?
[21:20:00] ERIN ANDREWS: I have them every day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE ATTORNEY: Trembling?
ERIN ANDREWS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE ATTORNEY: Explain.
ERIN ANDREWS: Just sitting here, I feel cold, like it is just a shaking.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Now, Erica, she also had nightmares, flashbacks, panic attacks. She is making a case for classic posttraumatic stress disorder.
AMERICA: I mean, I think it is clear, she proves right away to the FBI, I do not know what psychological training they have, but she proved to them
right away by vomiting that she was being real. I feel that she really is psychologically affected by what happened, 100 percent.
PINSKY: Yes.
AMERICA: But, what I am saying again is being affected by it, does that equal that you need $80 million. That does not kind of add up to me.
KAVINOKY: That is where a good trial lawyer makes all the difference. That is where a good trial lawyer.
COOMBS: She is not going to get $80 million.
KAVINOKY: If you tell the right story to that jury, that is how jurors vote based on the story.
AMERICA: You are not going to get support from people hearing that.
PINSKY: And, I agree with Erica. I am very sympathetic to people with posttraumatic stress disorder. I got a whip of that myself at times, and I
know how unpleasant it is.
AMERICA: Yes. It is real. It is real.
PINSKY: It is unpleasant. And, you never know what is really going to trigger it. In her case, clearly, this all triggered a full blown stress
disorder. But, every time somebody gets PTSD, look for a therapist, not for somebody to blame for the PTSD. I am not saying that she is
overstating her case. I think there is a real liability here, but let us not overstate the liability.
SCHACHER: Question to you, though, with her PTSD because every time she is walking around, she has to remember, "Oh my gosh! Are they looking at me
because I am Erin Andrews or because they saw my naked sex tape?" She has to think, every time she goes on the internet, "Oh my gosh, is somebody
watching" -- not sex tape. Is everybody thinking, you know what I mean? She constantly -- my question is, is she constantly reliving though, this
is revictimizing herself, because it lives on the internet.
PINSKY: It depends what part of the PTSD symptomatology is sort of spinning in her head. Whatever it is, is what will spin, whether it is
just that she feels violated, whether she feels threatens, whether she feels somebody is watching her, or has watched her, I cannot speak to that.
It is all equally as uncomfortable.
Little later, we got a Facebook, a teenage -- it is actually something posted on Facebook. This is unbelievable. A teenage mother look at her
there, believed by police to be convulsing on drugs on camera.
The baby is sitting right there. This goes on for quite awhile. And, of course, see the young man right next to her, fantastic. Good parenting
everybody. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIN ANDREWS: If somebody here and it is very hard to block out, I have seen your this, I have seen your that. Hey, I see what you do here. It
happens all the time. Every single game.
People tweet me, "I should pay the Marriott because they made me famous." "I should pay Barrett because he did me a favor." "I could be having a
great day learning about a 4-3, 3-4 defense." And, it all brings me back, every single day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And, it is Erin`s anguish`s worth $75 million in damage? I am discussing with Sam, Tanya, Loni, Darren and Erica. Now, she talks in this
upcoming video about all the precautions she takes when she travels.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIN ANDREWS: As soon as I get to a hotel, no matter what city or state I am in, I tell them I want to be -- I want to be moved from the room I was
pre-booked in. I will not allow anyone to bring bags up to my room.
I instantly cover the peephole. I look for lights. I look for red lights. I look to see if there are cameras. I booby trap my room. I put a piece
of paper down by the door so when I leave, if someone comes into the room, I can tell even the room service. I do not let them bring it in my room.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Sam, you are sighing when you hear that.
SCHACHER: I cannot imagine living that way. That is why I say, who are we to discuss the price tag on your well-being? I cannot imagine being so
paranoid, having to always look behind my shoulder, having to go through these OCD almost type routine in order to live a normal life. That sounds
like hell to me.
PINSKY: And, Erica, that is one of the issues of PTSD. It is exhausting. It is exhausting both because your sympathy, your fight or flight mechanism
is in a high gear all the time and you start obsessing, having obtrusive thoughts. You start worrying all the time. It is exhausting.
AMERICA: It is absolutely exhausting. And, I just wanted to say, I love Sam, I missed you. You are so empathic. I love that about you. You
really understand always where the victim is coming from.
PINSKY: Especially if the victim is an animal.
(LAUGHING)
SCHACHER: Love you. Love you, girl. Thanks.
AMERICA: Love you, too. But, yes, absolutely, Dr. Drew. You are correct in that. Just like OCD, PTSD is exhausting. It is exhausting being
nervous all the time that it is going to happen again.
You know what, chances are 99.99 percent, it is not going to happen again, but you do not think that way. You feel like it is going to happen again.
And, it really just kind of wrecks your life in a way. So, it has a huge impact.
PINSKY: Loni.
COOMBS: You know, I guess I am very practical and realistic. But, I am listening to things that she is doing thinking, you know, that is actually
a smart advice for any woman who travels these days.
KAVINOKY: Yes.
PINSKY: Well, listen. There is a reason our central nervous system responds the way it does to a traumatic event. It is adaptive. It is
adaptive in the sense that we start planning to make sure this thing does not happen to us again. But, psychologically and neurobiologically and
physically, it is exhausting as hell. Tanya.
ACKER: But, one of the things I noticed when Erin was talking during her testimony is that it is not even just the fear, it is also the
defensiveness that she has. I mean it is almost --
PINSKY: Is that good or bad?
ACKER: Well, no, it is just natural.
PINSKY: Yes.
PINSKY: Because she is being put on the spot. I mean even during the course of this conversation. It is like you are asking for too much money.
Did this help you? And, so, I think that, that is one of things she is going to be struggling with being defensive about this attack.
PINSKY: To wrap this up, one of the big experiences of somebody who has these sorts of violations in spite of it not being her fault, it triggers
shame. And, shame is a very toxic emotion and shame is sort of underlying a lot of this stuff.
[21:30:07] I do not know if she is aware of it or not. Sometimes you are not in touch with it. You heard her saying, there is something wrong with
me. I do not feel good about myself. That is all the shame by having been the object of an intrusion.
Next up a high school faker. Police have charged a 23-year-old with statutory sexual assault. They say he was having sex with a "15-year-old
classmate" in air quotes, because this kid enrolled himself, he is an immigrant. Illegal immigrant, enrolled himself in high school. Loni
thinks he is smart. We will see about that after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ARTUR SAMARIN, AKA "ASHER POTTS" ALLEGED FAKE STUDEN: I just want to have a better life. That is it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBIN MEADE, HLN HOST: A 23-year-old Ukrainian man who allegedly posed as a high school student for four years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAMARIN: Ukrainian people were starving.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: He used a fake birth certificate and social security card to get into Harrisburg High School.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: He excelled making the honor roll.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: I can understand the desperation to not want to go back and to make something of yourself in this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: He says he came to the U.S. in 2012 and met Michael and Stephayne Potts. He claims he reached out to them for help
when his visa expired.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARTUR SAMARIN: And, Stephayne came up with the idea that, "We are going to adopt you. We are going to bump five years of age and we can adopt you."
I love the United States. It is a land of opportunity for all of us immigrants. And, this land provided me with opportunities.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That 23-year-old is not only in trouble for lying about his age, he is also facing statutory rape charges for allegedly having had sex with
a 15-year-old classmate. Back with Sam, Tanya, Loni, Darren and Erica. So, do we think he was just trying to get an education or is this part of
the --
KAVINOKY: Concocted as part of the defense, perhaps.
PINSKY: That is what I am wondering or is this an elaborate way to get around our immigration system? Ultimately, is not that what he was doing?
ACKER: He did all of it. I mean he circumvented immigration rules by overstaying, I think it was a J-1 visa. He pretended to be somebody he is
not. He tricked apparently -- apparently tricked his peers. However, nobody his intentions may have been or how much he wanted an education or
how bad things are in Ukraine, there are a lot of problems with what happened.
PINSKY: Erica, he sounds so --
AMERICA: OK. I have the answer --
PINSKY: Whoa, Erica. Let us hear what is your answer, but I want to frame it this way, which is that he sounds so inspiring to hear him talk. Is he
actually -- is he speaking something truthful or is he a sociopath manipulating me?
AMERICA: Absolutely. So, there are two issues. One, and that is what I am going to go. I think this is a psychological issue. But, I just want
to first say, we do not know how bad it is in his home country that he wants to get here that bad.
I just want to put that out there first. It is really hard to want an education and all that. But, it is the fact that he pretended he was 15,
not just for the education and then went and-sex with the girls. OK?
PINSKY: Yes.
AMERICA: He pretended. This is a narcissistic borderline sociopathic type of condition that would end up being a serial killer.
PINSKY: OK. All right.
SCHACHER: Yes.
AMERICA: Or the president of the United States or a CEO. This is a personality disorder though.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Yes. I think so.
AMERICA: This is dangerous. This is very dangerous.
PINSKY: That is right. Sam.
SCHACHER: Yes. I am officially afraid. Thank you, Erica. But no, I agree. I get the desperation of wanting to live here, and I have empathy
for that. However, I do not feel that this is the case here. If he wanted an education, go to adult school.
PINSKY: And, do not have sex with a teenager.
SCHACHER: That is the trigger here.
COOMBS : Exactly.
SCHACHER: The fact that he manipulated all of his peers including his girlfriend.
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: He is 23. She is 14, 15. He has no business going to a high school. This is not "21 Jump Street." He should be in trouble.
(LAUGHING)
COOMBS: Well, yes, he is in trouble. But, we also do not know his maturity level. I mean he is very smart. He, actually, had two years of
college before he started high school all over again.
KAVINOKY: All of that hurts him on the criminal case.
PINSKY: But, listen, he spoke to reporters from jail. Here is what he told the reporter about the people who adopted him. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARTUR SAMARIN: And, Stephayne came up with the idea that, "We are going to adopt you. We are going to bump five years of age and we can adopt you,
because at 20 years old, we cannot adopt you." Everything they asked of me, I could not tell them no. If I say no, they are going to call
immigration and send me back, which I did not want. I was afraid of that.
So I was cleaning toilets. I was cooking for them. I was doing everything in the house, all this housework. Stephayne was taking classes in HACC. I
was doing homework for her. Pretty much like a slave driver system, but I did not mind as long as I am going to school.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So, if you listen carefully, if Erica`s contract is correct, this kid is blaming the couple that helped him break the law for keeping him in
slavery.
COOMBS: Well --
PINSKY: But, wait a minute. Here he is asked, "Did he regret anything?" Let us see.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARTUR SAMARIN: No, I am not regretting doing it. I have spent all of my free time on education, on education. If I had a chance to do it again --
it is all about education. It is nothing like I try to spend my time on something else. I try to benefit the society.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And, Toni -- I have to separate you guys.
(LAUGHING)
SCHACHER: Loni.
PINSKY: Loni. But, Erica is right, sociopaths do not feel regret.
COOMBS: Exactly. That is what I was going to say, the one thing I think goes perhaps contrary to her analysis is the way he is reacted since he had
been arrested. He has been very open.
[21:40:00] He is been giving interviews. He talked to the police. He told them exactly what happened. He has also apologized. He has also
said, "Look I am a cadet. I know that what I did was wrong. I deserved to be in jail."
KAVINOKY: He is trying to play every freaking card that he can. He is kind of like the hot felon who is now going for a modeling career. He is
like, "Hey, hang on. It is not enough that I had that hot 15-year-old. I think I am going to parlay this into some 15 minutes of fame." I am a
little skeptical of this guy.
PINSKY: Yes. Erica maybe right. Serial killers, Tanya, sometimes behave like that. They go out -- they are their own lawyer. They think they can
control things. They think they are smarter than everybody, right? That is part of the syndrome.
ACKER: Well, I mean, he is certainly setting forth a very specific narrative. It is a narrative about, "I am a good kid, but these people
forced me to do this thing that I did not really want to do." I mean, as Darren pointed out, he is going for multiple defenses really.
PINSKY: Yes.
KAVINOKY: It takes away any notion of good faith on his part when we are talking about the statutory rape. When I first heard the story, I thought,
"Hey, this guy is going to say, `I am a victim, too. I thought I was a different age than I am`." And, then you find out that the whole
cockamamie thing was concocted.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: I hate how he is saying I was there to benefit society when in reality you are benefiting yourself, and his penis in this case. I have no
sympathy for him, none.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Erica, help us, please.
AMERICA: Yes. So much deception in this. And, actually, his behavior after Loni confirms more of the personality issues and, you know, deception
that he can really just kind of take any form and just kind of run with it.
And, again, I think the fact that there was that sexual contact that shows that it was not just about the education. And, the fact that I think he
was also trying to be in like the marines or some type of ROTC.
PINSKY: ROTC.
AMERICA: He had so much nerve this kid, like -- It is ridiculous. He would lie about anything. And, to have that ability to do that, there is
got to be something a little bit not right.
PINSKY: It is like "Catch Me If You Can." Right?
AMERICA: Yes.
PINSKY: I want to bring in next one of this young man`s friends. He is here. He will tell us what his experience with this young guy was, after
this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARTUR SAMARIN: To Americans, you have a lot of opportunities. Take those opportunities, because I did not have a chance, you do. You have a chance
to succeed in this life. You were born here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Anything to the people that you lied to?
ARTUR SAMARIN: My deepest apologies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That was 23-year-old Asher Potts from the Ukraine. He was arrested after posing for four years as a high school student in
Pennsylvania. He was like a very accomplished student. He was in the ROTC. I think he was runner-up for the homecoming king or something.
Back with Sam, Tanya, Loni, Darren and Erica. And, on the phone, I have one of Asher`s friends. His name Marcel McCaskill. Now, they met in 2012
in an upward bound program. Marcel, thank you for joining us. What was your impression of Asher?
MARCEL MCCASKILL, FRIEND OF ARTUR SAMARIN: Hello. And, thank you for having me. And, my first impression with Asher was this man -- he believed
in coming out here to the Upward Bound Program, where -- That is where I first met him. He was really coming there for education. And, that
program, it is a six-week --
PINSKY: But, Marcel -- Marcel, I am sorry. I want to interrupt you. I just want to say, what kind of guy was he? Tell us about him. He is
obviously -- People are judging him now saying, "There is something wrong with this guy." "He is manipulating the system." "He is illegally here."
What is up with him? Did you imagine he was capable of that sort of thing or what kind of guy was he?
MCCASKILL: He honestly was a very, very socially friendly guy. And, I keep on saying it is really mind blowing to see him in the news like this.
He had the top of the line grades. He is very respectful. And, everyone in the upward bound program that we are in, everyone respected him, treated
him very nicely. He was a friend to everyone.
PINSKY: And, did he ever lie, manipulate people, did he ever show any aggression or anger, anything that caught your attention and made you sort
of wonder about where that came from?
MCCASKILL: Nothing at all. He always had a smile on his face. He always wanted to take pictures with everyone. He was just the type of guy that if
you are feeling -- if you are in a bad mood, he would find a way to lighten your day.
PINSKY: And, what would you say to people that are attacking him now in social media?
MCCASKILL: I have been reading a lot of Facebook comments on him and I personally made my own video on YouTube about this whole situation. And,
basically, what I said was, "If you knew Asher, you would not be making any of these negative comments that most of the people are saying about him."
PINSKY: OK. And, Marcel, one last thing. How long did you know him for?
MCCASKILL: I have known Asher since the summer of 2013.
PINSKY: OK. Thank you. Thank you, Marcel. I really appreciate that. So, does that change anybody?
(CROSSTALKS)
KAVIONOKY: Excelled in high school. He was there for the second time.
(LAUGHING)
ACKER: I think that there has to be maybe there is some space within -- he is just an aspiring person trying to get education.
PINSKY: Or desperate.
ACKER : And, he is a full-on serial killer psychopath.
PINSKY: Right.
ACKER: Maybe somewhere the truth is there.
PINSKY: Well, let me get to Erica who made the psychopath proposition in the first place. So, Erica, does that change your opinion at all? Does
that leave wiggle room for you? Go ahead.
AMERICA: Well, I want to say that I am not 100 percent sure on that. Absolutely. I would have to really like, you know, sit down and talk with
him. I am saying it is possible because of all the deception.
(LAUGHING)
KAVINOKY: It is possible he is not a psychopath.
AMERICA: The first thing I said was that it is really horrible that he had some perhaps leave someplace that was so bad that this is what he had to do
to get there.
PINSKY: Right. That is right.
AMERICA: So, maybe that is what it was. But, the piece that kind of makes me like, "hmm" --
PINSKY: The sex.
AMERICA: -- is why would he then have sex with a girl who is five years younger than him.
PINSKY: Yes. That is right.
(CROSSTALKS)
SCHACHER: Well, not five.
PINSKY: Eight years.
SCHACHER: It is eight years younger. This is a big deal.
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: 23-year-old having sex with a 15-year-old. And, I am sick of everybody giving him props that, "Oh yes, he had a high GPA. He is smart."
He was 23. Put me back in high school and I will have a 4.1, too.
(LAUGHING)
[21:50:12] PINSKY: Now, Loni, my question, though, is the couple who -- so-called adopted him that were enslaving him currently --
KAVINOKY: Co-conspirators.
PINSKY: Or co-conspirators, perhaps. Why have not they been charged with anything?
COOMBS: Well, they might be. And, then law enforcement said there will be further arrests in this. But, they are actually having a hard time finding
these people. Some of the local reporters went out to try and find the home. They looked at a bunch of different addresses who has been listed
for these people.
PINSKY: Could they not exist?
COOMBS: Well, some of the homes.
KAVINOKY: Shocking this may not all be on the level.
COOMBS: The house is for sale or it is a church or something. So, they are really having a hard -- there is something going on with this couple
that was supposedly his foster parents.
PINSKY: That is fascinating.
SCHACHER: That is interesting. Can you keep following this case.
(LAUGHING)
KAVINOKY: Yes. Please, please.
PINSKY: Now, my question, Tanya is what does this say about our national security? Do we need to -- Does Mr. Trump need to build his wall? I do
not see how that would keep this guy out.
ACKER: I am not going to speak to the issue of any wall. I will say that you know, it is funny that we can kind of laugh at you know, "Oh, he is --
he was a star student. He is a grown man. He was a star student." That was such a big deal. But, when you hear about things that do expose flaws
and things like --
PINSKY: That is flaws an easy work, a kind word.
ACKER: Exactly.
PINSKY: Yes.
ACKER: And, you know, there is a real problem when somebody can go for so long pretending to be someone who they are not, when all of these checks in
the system were not working. That is a real serious problem.
PINSKY: It is problem for us and our system. I would urge people to think about that "Catch Me If You Can" musical movie that this is -- may be that
kind of guy. It may be. We are going to show in just a minute when we come back, some shocking video that was posted on Facebook.
Yes, that is a seizure and that is the mom. And, that is a substance- induced seizure, we are led to believe. And, that is another kid, young male, intoxicated behind her. And, yes, that is a baby with a bottle
trying to get his mom`s attention through much of this. All right, we will come on back and talk to you about it, after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Warning, this is a disturbing video out of Alabama. The sounds of a crying toddler, mother believed by police to be high on synthetic
cannabinoids convulses on the balcony. You see it there. The video was taken last fall and posted to Facebook. It recently went viral and led to
the arrest of the child`s 18-year-old mother. She is charged with reckless endangerment.
The man in the video, also in custody. The woman who recorded the footage has also been arrested. Now, Erica, I want to go out to you very quickly.
I do not understand why. I mean know why people do spice. They do spice because they love pot and they do not want to get caught on a drug test.
They are going for any kind of cannabinoid they can get. But, does not they know now that spice causes horrible, horrible medical problems prominently,
which we are just looking in that video. Things just like that, seizures.
AMERICA: I know but it seems so sad, though, that some people just continue to do these things that are terrible decisions for themselves.
And, in this case, it looks like they did. So, I guess they either did not hear that or heard it and decided to do it either anyway. So, they may not
be the smartest of people.
PINSKY: Well, it is not about the smart. It is not about smart.
AMERICA: Is it smart?
PINSKY: It is desperate. Addiction makes you desperate. Darren.
KAVINOKY: Yes -- No. Obviously, what we see on video does not tell us the toxicology. But, assuming that she was taking spice, it is horrible and
sad on so many levels from the marijuana leaf tattooed on her lower back to whatever else is going on that those bystanders did not intervene. I am
sure there is many generations of trauma that are in that short video clip.
ACKER: You know, what is interesting, Darren is that we are not just talking about bystanders. I mean we are talking about an active
participant.
PINSKY: Yes.
ACKER: Somebody sat there with a camera and took a video and watched this woman who was sick and then they watched a kid. And, they put it on camera
like it was a piece of entertainment.
PINSKY: And, that is so common in the world of drug addiction, right? The video you saw of this woman, if you guys could please put it up again so we
can get a load of it, which is she is maybe having a seizure. I mean, she is having what is called tetany. She is having tetinac reactions.
I am not sure that is seizuring per se. And, I can think of 20 different substance abuse phenomenon that can cause exactly what you are seeing here,
whether it is withdrawal or active using. Substance abuse has fantastic effects on the brain and the central nervous system.
KAVINOKY: And, just like Erin Andrews that somebody`s daughter or --
SCHACHER: Of course. Believe me --
PINSKY: Well, but the baby, her daughter is sitting right there.
SCHACHER: Thank you. What kind of impact is that? Of course, the negligence right there that anything could have happened to the child.
But, what psychologically is that child going through watching its mother wriggle in pain.
PINSKY: And, by the way, it went on for quite awhile. Quite awhile. Listen, guys, please everybody, you put stuff in your system that can alter
the function of your brain, you are going to end up with trouble. Erica?
AMERICA: Yes. It just really upsets me to see stuff like this up on the internet. It reminds me when we talk about the cases of the fights that go
on between young people and the kids. They are also the same way, the standby effect. Because it is the underbelly of human nature wanting to
see something really nasty and people fight.
PINSKY: I am going to interrupt you. It is something I see all the time. And, Darren, back me up on this. I only have 2 seconds. But, it is a
typical thing. Somebody is loaded and they kind of put them on the couch and they wonder why that person ends up dead. Because everyone is using,
no one is attending to anybody`s medical safety.
That woman you are seeing in that video needs to be in an emergency room immediately. Paramedics should have been summoned. Her life was in
danger, but because everyone is loaded, not so much. Two seconds.
KAVINOKY: No. I am just nodding emphatically. Done.
PINSKY: All right. Thank you. DVR us, then you can watch this program anytime. Panel did a great job today. Thank you all for watching. We
will see you next time.
[22:00:00] (MUSIC PLAYING)
END
