Return to Transcripts main page
Dr. Drew
Hulk Hogan Asks For $100 Million From Site That Posted His Sex Tape; Mother and Daughters Killed in House Fire, Police Suspicious of Surviving Father; Fight Club Incident Between Teen Girls. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired March 08, 2016 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:14] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, AUTHOR AND FOUNDER OF JANEUNCHAIN.COM: He was a bad boy for having sex with his best friend`s wife.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TERRY GENE BOLLEA, AKA "HULK HOGAN," AMERICAN PROFESSIONAL WRESTLER: I knew they had an open marriage. He would say, "Hey, Hootie, Heather says she
wants to see you naked" or "Heather wants to have sex with you" or "Heather wants to see the size of your penis."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Hulk Hogan, the former pro-wrestler is suing Gawker Media for $100 million.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: If you have had sex with somebody especially you should not be having sex with -- so all of a sudden have that video of that
sexual encounter for everyone --
(CROSSTALKS)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST OF "DR. DREW" SHOW: Hold on. One at a time. One at a time.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- for everyone to see in the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST OF "NANCY GRACE" SHOW (voice-over): Inconsistencies from a, quote, Loving husband" after his wife and two daughters burn dead.
And, the mystery house fire where the, quote, "Sweet Hubby is the only one to escape.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
BRENT PATTERSON, ONLY ONE WHO ESCAPED THE HOUSE FIRE IN THE FAMILY (via phone): Two houses down.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 FEMALE DISPATCHER (via phone): Your house is on fire?
PATTERSON (via phone): Yes, everybody is trapped inside.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 FEMALE DISPATCHER (via phone): OK.
PATTERSON (via phone): They are not responding.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 FEMALE DISPATCHER (via phone): OK. Do you see --
PATTERSON (via phone): The whole first floor is on fire.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Alleged conflicting statements.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PATTERSON (on camera): I opened the front door and it was like, the place exploded.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PATTERSON (on camera): The cause is the couch. The cord behind the couch caught on fire and then the fire got in the wall. You can see the wall.
The fire got in the wall.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Something else terrible happened. The Patterson`s three dogs, Annie, Claire, and Piglet, all died on different
days for no obvious reason.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
PATTERSON (via phone): I do not want to leave my family here and come home and find them dead.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: It is being called a fight club incident. My 16-year-old daughter was jumped by three much bigger girls beating her so
badly she had to be airlifted to a hospital.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Hulk Hogan does he deserve $100 million from the website that posted his sex tape. Hulk Hogan, real name Terry Bollea. He says Gawker
Media violated his privacy. He got very personal on the stand today, responding to claims that he had bragged about -- nah, amongst other
things, his sexual prowess on the radio. Got to see this. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
TODD ALAN CLEM, RADIO SHOCK JOCK BUBBA THE LOVE SPONGE: So, Hogan, you are claiming -- you are claiming to maybe have a 10-inch (EXPLETIVE WORD).
HULK HOGAN: I am not claiming. Thos are the facts, Jock.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
ATTY. MICHAEL SULLIVAN, MEDIA GAWKER`S LAWYER: Do you have any doubt as you sit in that witness stand today that you were discussing the length of
your penis on Bubba`s radio program? Any doubt?
BOLLEA: Well, it is not mine, because mine is not that size, but we were discussing the length of Hulk Hogan`s.
SULLIVAN: Seriously. So you --
BOLLEA: No. Seriously, I do not have a 10-inch penis. No, I do not, seriously.
SULLIVAN: Fair enough. So, what you are telling us you were discussing Hulk Hogans penis, right?
BOLLEA: Excuse me.
SULLIVAN: You were discussing Hulk Hogan`s penis.
BOLLEA: Yes, because Terry Bollea`s penis is not 10 inches like you are trying to say.
SULLIVAN: All right.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Joining me on the phone, Tom Kludt, CNN Money Reporter, who was actually in the courtroom today. Tom, how did the jury react on all this,
where they recoiling?
TOM KLUDT, CNN MONEY MEDIA REPORTER: You know, the jury has remarkably been pretty stoic throughout. Even at that moment, I did not see much of
reaction. I was actually seated right behind one of the defendants, A.J. Daulerio, the former Gawker Editor, who posted the video footage back in
2012.
And, right at that moment, when you heard Hulk Hogan say that "Terry Bollea`s penis is not actually 10-inches long," I could not help but notice
Mr. Daulerio put his head in his hand as to suppress the laughter. It was quite an extraordinary moment. There was audible giggling from some of the
reporters there.
PINSKY: Thank you, Tom. It is kind of like an "SNL" skit, is not it? Joining me, Lisa Bloom, Civil Rights Lawyer at the Bloom Firm, legal
analyst for Avvo.com. Anahita Sedaghatfar, Attorney, Of Counsel to the Cochran Firm. Karamo Brown, T.V. Host, social worker. So, Lisa, if you
are revealing about -- it is so hard to talk about.
(LAUGHING)
LISA BLOOM, CIVIL RIGHTS LAWYER AND LEGAL ANALYST: Go ahead. Go ahead.
PINSKY: First of all, it is hard enough to create -- to get the right language to be able to discuss peoples genital outside of a clinical
context. But, then, they have to talk about it from a context of a wrestling characters genitalia versus Mr. Bollea`s genitalia.
And, then what he meant when he was talking on somebody else`s radio show versus what he is entitled to be private about. My problem with the whole
thing, Lisa, is that privacy is an inherit right. Yes? We all agree?
BLOOM: Yes.
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, ATTORNEY, OF COUNSEL: Yes, absolutely.
BLOOM: Yes.
PINSKY: There is gigantic controversy going on today about the encryption of an Apple iPhone.
BLOOM: Right.
SEDAGHATFAR: Right.
PINSKY: Somebody set up a camera and took a picture of this guy having sex. That is not OK in my world. Is that OK in Lisa`s world?
BLOOM: So, first of all, how many penises does Hulk Hogan has? Right?
(LAUGHING)
You only have one per person as far as I know. It is very odd to me to hear him say, "Well Hulk has one that is 10 inches long, but Terry the real
guy, who is playing the character has a much smaller one." I mean this is like really hard I think for me to grasp.
[21:05:08] PINSKY: Yes.
BLOOM: I am an attorney.
PINSKY: Yes.
BLOOM: I do trials all the time. This is a jury, so they had this extra layer they have to sort out in this case, which is the character versus the
real guy. And, his position is, the character Hulk Hogan, he is bombastic. He is aggressive. He has this gigantic penis. The real guy is soft and
sweet and sensitive and deserves $100 million.
PINSKY: OK. So, the case is if you are going to take video of Hulkster, you can do as you please with it. But, if you are taking video of Terry,
that is a sensitive guy, who gets hurt.
BLOOM: Right. And, which is the one who was having sex?
PINSKY: I do not know. I do not know which one. But, very much like Erin Andrews gets hurt, Terry gets hurt. I am going to show you some more
statements Hogans attorney gave us this afternoon.
He says, quote, "Even though Hogan is a celebrity playing certain role, he is deserving of privacy in his personal life. It would seem Gawker is
suggesting if a celebrity plays a sexual role in a movie, it would then be appropriate to post a sexual video of that celebrity taken in their private
life. And, Karamo, that is kind of my point, which is that if somebody is a porn star, they still have a right to privacy.
KARAMO BROWN, T.V. HOST AND SOCIAL WORKER: I agree. I think this is sexist. The mean the fact that we are discussing this and not in the same
context with how we discuss Erin Andrews is ridiculous to me. Just because he is a man, just because he was a wrestler and he had this persona like,
"I am a tough guy," that all of a sudden, he should not have the right to privacy.
No one should have videotaped him, and that is the bottom line of this. And, we do not know how much damage or how much emotional toll it has taken
on how or how much he has suffered. And, that is what we need to remember here.
PINSKY: Now, but Anahita, he said -- I will present you with some facts here Counsellor.
SEDAGHATFAR: OK.
PINSKY: He testified that he never sought treatment for emotional distress after the tape had been leaked, but he has not been the same, much the way
Erin Andrews said she had been the same.
SEDAGHATFAR: Right.
PINSKY: I may have you comment after you watch this tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLEA: I just have never been able to get my step back or feel like myself because, you know, even trying to get my guard back up has just been
this overriding haunting of this sex tape that Gawker put out there.
So, instead, of having my guard up when I look at somebody and meet somebody or go out in public, or when I am signing someone`s kids`
autograph, I still felt like I was turned inside over this thing. I have not felt like myself. It has changed me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So, Anahita, that is sworn testimony on the stand. We have the man that exposed him to all this laughing about it. Tom just testified --
or just gave us that bit of detail. I think, I am angry about this. I mean whatever the facts are, $100 million seems crazy, but I am angry that
the guy -- the insolence of the guy that would expose somebody to what he reports under oath was a very damaging experience.
SEDAGHATFAR: Right. You should be angry that someone was laughing about that. This is a gross invasion of privacy, Dr. Drew. He is a man having
consensual sex in the privacy of his bedroom. He does not know he is being videotaped.
I do not care if he is a celebrity. I do not care if he is on every T.V. show, every radio show talking about sex, being salacious, that does not
give them the right to do what they did. And, I hope this jury sympathizes with him. I think he came across very sympathetic in that testimony. I
think there is presumed emotional distress damages, even if he did not seek therapy --
PINSKY: How much?
SEDAGHATFAR: I -- I --
PINSKY: $55 million?
SEDAGHATFAR: I cannot quantify it.
BLOOM: No.
PINSKY: No?!
SEDAGHATFAR: I hope it is enough. I hope it is enough like the Erin Andrews` jury, enough to teach this Gawker website and other media outlets
a lesson that this really is not OK.
PINSKY: Wow.
BROWN: Yes . One of my big things is that when we talk about the fact that he never got emotional support for this and went to seek therapy, that
is how men are trained in this country.
SEDAGHATFAR: Right.
BROWN: You do not get emotional support. And, so, when I am looking at this, it resonates with me in a bit because I see how sometimes when things
happen to me, someone said to me immediately as a little boy, "Do not cry. Toughen up."
BLOOM: Yes.
BROWN: "You got to take this." And, so when I am seeing this, I can understand why he did not want to go get help and it is sad, because those
guys was victimizing him.
BLOOM: Yes.
PINSKY: It is the character from which he derives --
BLOOM: Look. It is not supposed to be about the character. It is supposed to be about Terry, the real guy.
PINSKY: I understand.
BLOOM: I blame his attorneys a little bit, because I represented a lot of men in sexual harassment and sexual assault cases, cases like this, they
have to go to a therapist before trial. They just have to. Of course, they do not want to, because you need that professional to testify that
this is real.
PINSKY: And, we got a lot more to say about this. But, later, we have a female fight club. Girls gone wild again, everybody. This is a very
different kind of gone wild, though. Bystanders do nothing as a teen is badly beaten by a mob of young girls. You got to see this. Back after
this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Wrestlers occupy a very unusual position as Hulk walks around on the street as Terry Bollea, he looks like
Hulk Hogan. He appears to be Hulk Hogan. This is not a mask that he puts on. He keeps those handlebar moustaches. That is his character, but this
ultimately a very clever strategy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN HOST OF "LEGAL VIEW" PROGRAM: He was asserting his right to be a private person, yet look what he is wearing. He is wearing
his Hulk Hogan head scarf.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Why then if he is trying to assert that he is not Hulk Hogan on that stand, would he dress the part?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CEVALLOS: It sort of belies his own argument when he says, "I am Terry Bollea" and he sits there on the witness stand and he looks exactly like
Hulk Hogan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: All right. Well, he wants the jury to know that Hulk Hogan and Terry Bollea are not the same person. Back with Lisa, Anahita and Karamo.
And, joining us, Erin Foster, psychotherapist. Erin, I want you to watch Hogan on the stand today.
And, I want you to help me make sense of the man versus the character and do you believe the excuse that he is creating here. And, I, by the way --
our buddy, Danny Cevallos was commenting that intro piece.
I would take issue. I would say "Listen, it is pretty hard for him not to look like Hulk Hogan." He is not wearing a flag on his head as he does
sometimes. He looked more like a priestly version of Hulk Hogan on the stand there to me. Now, take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[21:15:02] BOLLEA: I was in character. I embellished a little bit about the number of women.
SULLIVAN: OK. So, when you made that statement to TMZ, was that you Terry Bollea or was that you, Hulk Hogan?
BOLLEA: I was totally Hulk Hogan because I was not at home in my private house.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SULLIVAN: You felt comfortable sharing publicly that you had a number of women between the time your marriage to Linda ended and your relationship
with your new wife commenced, is that fair to say?
HULK HOGAN: I felt comfortable saying those words, yes because it was Hulk Hogan and I was just embellishing about sort of having a couple girls -- a
bunch of girls. I was being Hulk Hogan in character.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So, Erin, my head is beginning to spin a little bit. I do not know about you. First of all, do you believe him, veracity here, yes or
no?
ERIN FOSTER, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: No.
PINSKY: No.
FOSTER: This is a persona.
PINSKY: No, but is he -- but is that persona partly Terry and is he just conveniently breaking them apart for the sake of this case.
FOSTER: I think that he is so entrenched psychologically in the persona that he has a difficult time differentiating between himself and his
persona.
PINSKY: Fair enough. And, that is why we are confused, right? Because he is confused, except he is trying to sort it out her on the stand and make
the case that all the hyperbole about sexuality was part of the wrestling persona. Do you buy that?
FOSTER: Well, sure. I mean, he is a bit of an exhibitionist.
PINSKY: OK. He is an exhibitionist. And, Hulk is a narcissist, right?
FOSTER: I think so.
PINSKY: OK. But, Terry, not so much?
FOSTER: Well, Terry, perhaps is insecure and so he has adopted the persona, which he is not integrated into Terry.
PINSKY: And, Erin, is it legitimate to say that Hulk Hogan`s -- no, Terry`s reaction to this intrusion can be anyway associated with what we
saw with Erin Andrews and her posttraumatic stress reaction.
FOSTER: Yes.
PINSKY: These are equivalent phenomenon just once in a male and once in a female, is that right?
FOSTER: Yes, absolutely.
PINSKY: OK. All right, Erin is my expert witness here. Counsellor, she has testified that the PTSD is legitimate and it is similar to what Erin
Andrews who got $50 million at trial.
FOSTER: Yes.
BLOOM: But, Erin Andrews did not have this alternate persona issue. And, I think it is hard for people to differentiate, because he did not just
play Hulk Hogan one time in one film or T.V. show This has been, what? Decades, he has been that character.
Yes, this reminds me of Stephen Colbert, who had the show for like eight years. He is in that character, and when he got his new late night talk
show, how is he going to be anything different? He is so associated with that character.
PINSKY: So, in other words, if Stephen Colbert votes on a democratic ticket, we cannot possibly allow that?
(LAUGHING)
BLOOM: Yes. But, it is so confusing.
PINSKY: Listen, Gawker says the sex tape was in fact legitimate news, because Hulk Hogan had talked openly about his sex life on radio and
television. I am going to show you a little piece of what he said on Howard Stern and this was brought up in court today. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOWARD STERN, RADIO AND TELEVISION PERSONALITY: You come up off as a stud, honest to God are you kidding me? Do you think you come off bad on that
tape? I mean let us analyze. What is going on here? --
BOLLEA: Honestly. Honestly.
STERN: Yes. And, then you pulled a website.
BOLLEA: I have seen probably about 15 seconds of it because it is so --.
STERN: Well, I have seen a minute.
BOLLEA: It is so -- it got me so sick to my stomach and chest, I felt like I was going to have a heart attack. Ands, I am telling you, dude, it has
totally turned my life upside down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And, I will tell you something about sitting in front of Howard Stern in that seat that Hogan is sitting in, I have sat there a couple of
times, and Howard does not tolerate anything but honesty. He will come after you. He has very deep instincts about this. Hulk -- well, Terry, I
think, we are talking to here, tries to explain on the stand today. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLEA: Well, the person who is sitting here today under oath, and I do not lie under oath is Terry Bollea. Now, as the character, we can talk
about the tripod. We can talk about like I said, I body slammed elephants, you know. I have surfed on tiger sharks and those were all lies. I pulled
bumpers off Cadillac Jack. Those were all lies. That is Hulk Hogan saying in character driven.
So, to answer your question, I was there and I did not want to talk about Terry Bollea and my experience on the radio. It was, you know, it -- there
was -- the media was attacking us and I was actually using this show to, you know, try to stop things from going forward.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And, he says he found out during TMZ interview that Bubba his friend, Bubba the Love Sponge, may have been behind the sex tapes. Here is
how he reacted.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE WALTERS, TMZ: This is the end of the tape, you leave and Bubba comes back in the room, and Heather is on the bed. And, Bubba says, I quote, "If
we ever did want to retire, all we would have to do is use this footage of him."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[21:20:00] HULK HOGAN: When they confirmed that Bubba was on the tape and Bubba went up and turned the camera off, and Bubba told Heather that, "This
is for our retirement, Heather," I just started violently shaking. I could not stop.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So, Anahita, that was a close friend of his, maybe that was not a good choice. Maybe he was doing something bad in this tape, so we are
feeling sort of righteous indignation. But, his privacy was profoundly violated here.
SEDAGHATFAR: Exactly. It was. And, I think the argument that the defence is making, "Well, he went on T.V., he went on Howard Stern. He was talking
about sex. He was talking about the sex tape." This is hard --
PINSKY: But, is it legitimate for him to hide behind the character. Legitimate or illegitimate?
SEDAGHATFAR: I am not confused by the distinction. I believe that there is a public persona and I believe there is a private persona, which is who
he is. I do not think the distinction is necessary in this case, though, Dr. Drew, because here is what, you do "Love Lines."
PINSKY: Yes.
SEDAGHATFAR: You do a show called "Love Lines."
PINSKY: Yes.
SEDAGHATFAR: You talk about sex.
PINSKY: Yes.
SEDAGHATAFAR: You talk about all kinds of personal things. You have even talked about, you know, some of your sex life issues on that show.
PINSKY: I have.
SEDAGHATFAR: Does that mean --
PINSKY: Anahita was listening carefully over there.
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes. I have. So, that does not mean that because of that you have waived your right to privacy up to what happens in your bedroom.
PINSKY: Right. That is right.
SEDAGHATFAR: I think that is a preposterous argument the defence is making.
PINSKY: No. And, I think if you take it to the extreme, a porn star would then have zero privacy.
SEDAGHATFAR: We all should be concerned.
PINSKY: Anybody on television.
SEDAGHATFAR: Anybody on television.
BLOOM: I agree.
SEDAGHATFAR: Anybody is on jeopardy.
BLOOM: We all talk about our lives.
SEDAGHATFAR: He did not know he was being recorded. I think that is the - -
PINSKY: OK. Bottom line. Bottom line here, I think we got Terry`s back. Terry, I got your back.
BLOOM: Yes.
PINSKY: We do not have Hulk`s back necessarily, though. Anahita does.
SEDAGHATFAR: I do.
PINSKY: Erin, thank you for your expert testimony. I do not think it is worth $100 million dollar, but we are associating it with what poor Erin
Andrews went through here. So, that is the measuring stick. There might be a descent compensation coming for him.
Next up, a mother and her daughters tragically killed in a house fire. Father is the only survivor and now police are suspicious about him. We
are back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED 911 FEMALE DISPATCHER (via phone): Your house is on fire?
PATTERSON (via phone): Yes, everybody is trapped inside.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (voice-over): Kathy Patterson and her two daughters, Kayla and Madeline died. Father Brent Patterson survived and
investigators say he gave conflicting stories about what happened.
Authorities say Patterson said he was putting his family to bed when he heard a noise. Then another time, he claimed everyone was asleep and the
noise woke him up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PATTERSON: I opened the front door and it was like the place exploded.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (voice-over): Patterson`s minor injuries do not match his version of going back in to try and save his family.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PATTERSON: There is nothing I could do. I tried everything I could.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Terrible story. That father Brent Patterson claims the fire is a tragedy caused by combustion, but authorities may be investigating it as
arson. I am back with my Lisa, Anahita and Karamo. And, joining us Carolyn Zeppa. She is a criminologist. And, police say, Patterson has
given conflicting stories about the fire. Listen to his explanation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PATTERSON: The cause is the couch. The cord behind the couch caught on fire and then the fire got in the wall. You can see the wall. The fire
got in the wall. And, then when I opened the door, it exploded. It is not under investigation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Not under investigation, Anahita. Is that a little defensive to you or you buy it?
SEDAGHATFAR: You know what? I do not know what to make of this case, but the investigation is not complete. The police do not even know how the
fire was started. They say he is not a suspect. He has not been arrested. And, yes, to the extent there are inconsistent statements he may have made.
PINSKY: Well, let us look what they are. He said he was putting the family to bed on the same room when he heard a loud noise. But, he has
also said he was asleep and the noise woke him up.
SEDAGHATFAR: So, what? So, what?
PINSKY: Karamo, buying it?
SEDAGHATAR: And, so, what? Is that a material difference in his statements that he made? My understanding is that it could be possible
that they could have all slept in the same bedroom that one night. It did not mean that the girls did not have their bedrooms. So, I think it really
matters what the statements are. Can they be explained away and are they material?
PINSKY: Well, material, Lisa, how about those injuries that do not match the story about going back into the house. Does that make a difference?
BLOOM: Let us talk about the three dogs. Three healthy dogs that mysteriously died in this family in the one month before the house burned
down with the family in it. If that does not make everybody suspicious, I do not know what would. I mean that is enough for me to say bring the guy
in. He should be a suspect. There is too many conflicts in the story. I think he has got big problems.
PINSKY: Karamo.
BLOOM: Karamo, he also has a criminal history. He served time for dealing drugs in two states in the `80s and `90s. He has also had some serious
financial troubles, refinance a couple of times, failed to pay taxes, owes thousands. Karamo.
BROWN: I do not buy it, at one single bit. And, I really wish that the police would really start to investigate this man. Because when you
brought up the minor injuries, as a father if my house was on fire --
PINSKY: I would burn down myself.
BROWN: I would have been dead.
PINSKY: I would have third-degree burns all over my body.
BROWN: All over myself. There would have been nothing that would have stop me to go through every door, every wall until I found my children.
PINSKY: Yes.
BROWN: And, you are walking out here and you are giving interviews. You are doing all these stuff. You are guilty in my eyes.
SEDAGHATFAR: No.
BROWN: And, I do not appreciate it --
PINSKY: Anahita, no.
SEDAGHATFAR: No.
PINSKY: Anahita, no?
SEDAGHATFAR: No, no. I do not think we are close to making that leap as to his guilt or innocence, Dr. Drew. And, let us talk about the three
dogs. So, apparently, he did call the police months before this fire took place and said, I am worried there might be a carbon monoxide leak or my
alarm is not working" --
PINSKY: Did that kill the dogs?
SEDAGHATFAR: That possibly could have killed the dogs.
BLOOM: How about after dog number one dies, you get a carbon monoxide detector.
SEDAGHATFAR: Apparently, he did and he was saying that it was not working, and that was his fear. But, to suggest guilt or even innocence at this
point, I just think, it is premature. They do not even know what the cause of the fire was.
PINSKY: Anahita, what is your Twitter handles, so we can go after you right now. But, before they do -- Before they do, let me bring in my
expert witness. Carolyn, you are a criminologist. Does this story make your spidey sense tingle?
[21:30:00] CAROLYN ZEPPA, CRIMINOLOGIST: Yes. I definitely think that we need to remember that this gentleman has a history of interacting with law
enforcement through his previous narcotics investigations, so he does have that interaction with an investigator.
And, I think it is important to keep that in mind, because he might know how to spin this story. It could be why he is giving multiple interviews.
You know, that is suspicious to me.
PINSKY: So, I did not know. So, these guys will go out there and talk to press a lot. It is sort of they protest too much. They are trying to
convince people, you think?
ZEPPA: Yes. That often happens in different cases, not just something that is potential arson, but someone who, you know, you see in serial
killer behaviour. I am not saying that is the case here. But, you know, you do see attention-seeking behavior in either trying to aid the
investigation or somehow control it. A lot of that comes from a controlling behavior.
PINSKY: And, you have used the word arson, is there anything about this that smacks of arson?
ZEPPA: I think as Karamo has said that his injuries are inconsistent with a father having children in the house. I think that --
PINSKY: So, hold on.
ZEPPA: -- being the investigation still ongoing.
PINSKY: So, I am not sure I caught what you said. So, you are saying from your standpoint as a criminologist, there should be a different pattern of
burns.
ZEPPA: I would think so. I would think that if -- I do not have children, but if I did, I would probably be going into that house and attempting
every possible way of getting in, as everyone else has said on the panel --
PINSKY: Well, not everyone. Anahita, was literally stopping, literally stopping at what you were saying --
(LAUGHING)
SEDAGHATFAR: The fire fighters could not even get into the house, Dr. Drew. That is how severe this fire was. So, I think again, we do not know
either way. Let them conduct their investigation. Let us find evidence. Is there a motive? We have not heard if there is a possible motive, not to
this legally.
PINSKY: We got some more stuff going on. Let us keep unraveling with the data we do have. Family services contacted in 2014 after a neighbour and
people at the school accused Kathy, the mom of drinking and endangering her daughters.
Family did not answer the door when a caseworker showed up. Ultimately, they claim the allegations were false. The case was ultimately closed, but
Karamo, you have been a social worker. You have been on these calls, where there is smoke --
BROWN: There is fire and that is what we have here. This is exactly what we have here.
SEDAGHATFAR: Wow!
(LAUGHING)
BROWN: I mean, the fact that they had to be called out, these children could have been in danger. I know that they did not find any physical
abuse on the kids, which is why the case was closed, but at that --
PINSKY: Wait. And, there is also more -- Karamo, I will let you finish your thought after I give you this.
BROWN: Yes.
PINSKY: The husband, Patterson, also told reporters that his wife had a series of psychiatric medications, might have made her sleepy. The
authorities took prescription medication and medical documents from the scene, Karamo. So, something there, too.
BROWN: Yes.
PINSKY: I do not know what this is.
BROWN: There is a whole lot of fishy information right here. And, that is why I really want this investigation to go a lot further especially with
this father, because something is not right.
PINSKY: It does not add up.
BROWN: It does not add up.
BLOOM: Clearly, it is very suspicious. And, the father has to be ruled out. That is the way law enforcement works. You take the closest people
and you rule them out. Clearly, he deserves a very close look.
PINSKY: All right, we are going to keep this going. I want to hear from Carolyn on this one, because she would be the one you could be consulting,
right? You would be talking to a criminologist about this.
But, later, we have a female style fight club. Not an ordinary brawl. This one, of course, filmed by multiple bystanders and posted on Facebook
and the victim drove herself away, but ended up being hospitalized, I mean with very serious injuries. We will tell you about them. We are back
after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PATTERSON: It was about 10:00 or 10:30 at night and we were all up stairs and we heard a noise. When you hear a noise you go check it out. And, I
came down stairs and then I opened the door and then it exploded.
I tried to go back inside and I could not because it was too hot and burning me, so then my neighbour, George, tried to help. He tried to help
and we tried beating in the back glass and they -- they are dead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That was Brent Patterson, the sole survivor of a tragic house fire that claimed every member of his family. He is not a suspect but
circumstances have lead investigators to include the possibility of arson.
Back with Lisa, Anahita, Karamo and Carolyn. This man, Patterson, returned to the house multiple times for interviews. He appears shaken. He appears
emotional. He appears desperate to me. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PATTERSON: There is nothing I can do. I tried everything I could.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PATTERSON: There was a -- the most incredible family ever.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: A. Emotion, B is the desperation I was seeing there, something related to PTSD or acute stress reaction or is that desperation just to
desire to convince us and the investigators there at the site.
ZEPPA: You know what. Absolutely, it could be -- in my mind, one of two things. He could either be truly shaken up and, you know, grieving for his
family as anyone would in this kind of tragedy, or he could be trying to control that narrative of what the public is seeing and what investigators
are seeing.
PINSKY: Carol, do arsonists return to the scene of the crime typically? I do not know anything about arsonists, do they?
ZEPPA: About one-third -- statistic shows that about one-third will actually return to the scene of the crime. Arsons themselves will
definitely want to be present during when --
PINSKY: During the fire.
ZEPPA: During the fire, itself. And, so, you will see investigators actually, if there are multiple fires happening in an area, they will start
searching the crowd and seeing who is that usual suspect that is showing up in every scene.
PINSKY: And, let me ask you, what do the arsons get out of viewing the fire and what do they get out of returning?
ZEPPA : A sense of control, most often.
PINSKY: Interesting. It is not like a weird sexual or weird gratification or something out of this?
ZEPPA: Not typically sexual, but it is sort of they could be people who are frustrated with their lives and have no other way to actually control
what is going on with their lives and this is how they are taking that out on the world, is actually controlling that situation of having a fire
department show up.
PINSKY: Karamo.
BROWN: It is funny that she said that that there is a piece of control here that is why he is returning. We do not know if that is the truth, but
I think about the fact that his wife had allegedly had pills and there were --
PINSKY: Alcohol.
[21:40:00] BROWN: Alcohol. There was something going on there. I can only imagine having two young girls. If he has some type of mental
disorder or something going on himself, then he might have felt like things are out of control and that is -- it is funny for her to say that. It
seems like it correlates in a lot of ways and just adds to me believing that he needs to be investigated.
PINSKY: Not Anahita, though. She will have none of it.
(LAUGHING)
SEDAGHATFAR: I will none of that. But, I would be interested to see what the toxicology reports shows of the victims, because it could be possible
and I read something about one of the medications she was on had side effects that made her very drowsy.
PINSKY: Sure. Sure.
SEDAGHATFAR: And, also one of the daughters. So, perhaps, that could have been a reason why they could not react in time or could not get out.
BLOOM: It could be.
SEDAGHATFAR: I would be interested to see that.
BLOOM: Can I ask a question to our expert witness?
PINSKY: Of course, Carolyn.
BLOOM: OK. Here is the question, Carolyn.
ZEPPA: Uh-huh.
BLOOM: If somebody has posttraumatic stress, they try to avoid the thing that caused them the stress, right? I mean, if this was a terrible
accident and he was a victim, would he be going back to that house that burned that house over and over again, or would not he be wanting to get
away from there?
ZEPPA: I think it depends on the case, but I -- typical PTSD, I do not think they would not be wanting to return to the scene.
PINSKY: Yes, typically and I agree. I think we all agree with that, but we cannot say it is not impossible.
BLOOM: Not a 100 percent.
PINSKY: It is not a 100 percent, yes.
BLOOM: Right.
PINSKY: Now, the eldest daughter, this guys eldest daughter was hospitalized for fainting and all three as we had said of the family dogs,
all of a sudden inexplicitly died. A friend on Facebook suggested they check for carbon monoxide. And, interestingly enough, Patterson made this
call to police almost two years earlier in 2013.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
PATTERSON (via phone): We had a carbon monoxide alarm going off and I went, and I bought a new one from Home Depot. And, this one went off one
time and then it stopped. But, I am a little bit concerned and I got to go to work, I am a restaurant manager. I am just concerned -- I do not want
to leave my family here and come home and find them dead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SEDAGHATFAR: That is great. That is great evidence for him. I never heard that tape, but that certainly explains away the calls that he made
and the dogs dying.
PINSKY: Maybe.
SEDAGHATFAR: And, this was two years before.
BLOOM: No, it does not.
SEDAGHATFAR: Is there a suggestion that he planned this for two years, Dr. Drew? I am going to plan this fire and I am going to plan it two years
ahead in call the police and say that the detectors --
BLOOM: It shows he is thinking about his whole family being dead while he is away. That is an awful weird coincidence when his whole family did show
up dead.
PINSKY: Now, the wife, Kathy Patterson, was active on Facebook. She sort of presented this family as happy, community focused. She also had a
history of having helped and reached out challenged teens.
So, these are all pieces of the puzzle. Do we have the neighbour`s 911 call too? Is that coming up here? Can I put that into this? Yes. We
have a neighbour first called 911 about the house being on fire at 8:30, though Patterson says the fire was at 10:00 or 10:30. Again, more pieces
of the puzzle --
BLOOM: Oops.
PINSKY: No one called -- Do we have that? Oh, we do not have it. We do not have the tape. But, it is all very confusing --
BLOOM: That timeline is a big problem for him.
PINSKY: Yes, it is.
BLOOM: There is a lot of discrepancies.
PINSKY: But, then again --
SEDAGHATFAR: Unless, it can be explained away like a lot of the other evidence. So, I am saying, at face value, a lot of things do seem
suspicious. We saw this with the hot car dad case. A lot of things that we heard that the detectives said he thought, turns out it was not true.
There is explanation.
BLOOM: Yes. I do not think you want to compare this to the hot car dad --
(LAUGHING)
SEDAGHATFAR: We just do not know. Yes. We are not trying to compare it to that, but I think it is a good case to exemplify that things cannot be
taken at face value.
PINSKY: All right. Next, no one called for help when a teenager, a young girl was beaten badly by another group of young girls. We will show you
that video. It was posted by a bunch of bystanders on Facebook. Almost, as disturbing as the fight itself. Well, this woman -- this girl was
beaten badly. We will see you after the break.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: A brawl between teenage girls so violent that it is being called a fight club incident. Three girls allegedly
targeted a 16-year-old, who are beating her so badly she had to be airlifted to a hospital. The victim was treated for a lacerated liver, and
spleen, broken ribs and whiplash from repeated kicks to her head.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And, she remains hospitalized. According to her mother, she had to drive herself home because no one, all those bystanders recording with
their phones, no one called for help. And, again, internal bleeding due to lacerations of her liver and spleen. It is hard to rupture those organs.
Broken ribs, whiplash.
You saw that picture of her there in the ICU, repeated kicks to the head. Traumatic closed head injury. Back with Lisa, Anahita, Karamo, Erin and
Carolyn. Erin, you know, people have to remember that when someone is a bystander, it is bad enough to watch the violence amongst girls here.
But when someone is a bystander, that is sort of a choice. They can come to the aid of the victim. They could take on the bullies, they can
bystand, you know, or participate. There are many different choices here, but bystander is the one that most people sort of naturally go to. But
then to pick up a phone and to video it is particularly offensive, is not it?
FOSTER: Absolutely. This is incredibly offensive. I am angry because not only is this abuse, we also have like a very disturbing thought pattern in
the people who are not calling for help and the people who are standing by and doing nothing but also participating in the abuse of this girl.
PINSKY: And, so, Lisa, the question is do they have a liability by not at least calling for aid or doing something? Is omission and co-mission
related here.
BLOOM: So, unfortunately, the law will not do anything to them. Only a select group of people like therapists and teachers and doctors have a duty
to speak out. --
PINSKY: How about attorneys?
(LAUGHING)
BLOOM: No! No, we can walk right by. Is not that awful?
PINSKY: Yes. Thanks for creating those laws.
BLOOM: But, you know, I am going to say this to these girls. This device, this device could have saved this girl. I am holding up my phone --
[21:50:00] PINSKY: And, a reminder --
BLOOM: -- it could have saved this girl from those horrible injuries. You should have used it to call 911 not use it to take pictures.
PINSKY: And, instead what you are watching these Facebook videos, things are actually not just recorded but then uploaded on to Facebook and we have
been showing them to you here. But, Anahita, you sort of recoiled when I said that there is no liability here. Do you think, there is not?
SEDAGHATFAR: There is no liability. There really is not for the bystanders. I think the ones that beat her, that is assault and battery.
They should be criminally charged.
PINSKY: As juveniles --
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, possibly adults. That looks pretty egregious in my opinion.
PINSKY: So, hold on here. So, the more violent, the more egregious -- again, this is Facebook video, we are looking at here. The more egregious,
the more violent, the more likely you are going to be tried as an adult?
SEDAGHATFAR: That is one of the factors the court will look at when they came that decision.
PINSKY: I did not know.
SEDAGHATFAR: But, Dr. Drew, I want to say this. I blame social media for this epidemic that we are seeing. I think a lot of this is driven by
social media. Because these kids are more concerned about capturing these videos on their cell phones, so they can post it on Facebook. Get the
likes, so the videos can go viral. I think that is what is driving a lot of this bad behavior.
PINSKY: Now, hold on. We have the mom -- well, the video altercation goes uploaded and posted on Facebook. And, then the mom, the victim`s mom
discovered the video, then she posted on Facebook with the following quote. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: My 16-year-old daughter was jumped by three much bigger girls. Watching these girls beat on her and then kicking her
in the stomach and in the head as she lay on the ground was the most horrible thing I have ever seen. "
No one called 911 and my daughter drove herself home after. She is in so much pain. I cry for my baby. This is just the beginning because once my
daughter is well, I am going to show just how serious I am.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So, now what? Now what, Karamo? Now, we have a vigilante on top of this?
BROWN: Well, yes, we do have a vigilante. I can understand this mother`s disappointment. She is scared. Her child has been hurt. But, to go to
your point, I do not think, it is social media that people should be blaming right now. But, I think parents and people in America need to
understand is that this generation is being desensitized.
PINSKY: Yes.
BROWN: There are so many sites that are dedicated to fights like this. There is one called, World Star Hip-Hop" that actually puts up fight videos
constantly. And, so what happens, you have a generation of kids who are literally posting these videos and hoping that they get the attention from
social media --
PINSKY: Carolyn, I still make the point -- Karamo`s point is very well taken, but social media where this is all posted and the behavior of these
kids is very much mob-like, which is the other thing we are seeing in social media.
ZEPPA: Yes. I mean, social media, it is a tricky, tricky world out there and parents certainly are not educating their children on what is
appropriate to put on social media and what is not appropriate. And, I think that that is very indicative of the kind of, you know, desensitizing
to violence that we are seeing.
PINSKY: Yes. I would refer parents to technologywellnesscenter.com is a place you can go to educate yourself, because it on us. Look at those
kids. Their behavior says something about us as parents. We are back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL BAKER, FAMILY FRIEND AND SPOKESMAN: I know the young lady. I would not say that she is a fighter by any means, but I think she was pushed into
a position where she felt that she had to have a physical altercation to defend her honor or her reputation within the school. But, this is
certainly a pre-planned event where kids went to entertain themselves by videotaping another child being beaten.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And, then it is posted and that video you are watching is from Facebook. The 16-year-old targeted in the fight had to be airlifted to the
hospital with multiple severe internal injuries. She told a local affiliate quote, "At first, I was so embarrassed to have lost the fight,
because I knew that was all that was going to be talked about. But, I did not lose a fight. I got beat up from multiple people beating me." Erin.
FOSTER: I am mad. I mean, but I think what I am more mad about is that here is a fundamental flaw in parenting here.
PINSKY: Yes.
FOSTER: Yes, social media is to blame.
PINSKY: Yes.
FOSTER: Because it is fuelling the fire, but where are the parents teaching kids this behavior is not acceptable. You do not hurt people.
What do we teach our toddlers? You do not hit.
PINSKY: Yes. And, yet we live in a world where aggression and violence is something that is sort of encouraged. You had a question, Anahita.
SEDAGHATFAR: Absolutely. We know the physical damages that she sustained.
PINSKY: Yes.
SEDAGHATFAR: What about the emotional impact on this girl?
PINSKY: Oh, please. I mean, look. Just having to face down your -- I guarantee you in this moment she thought she might die. And, humans when
they experienced the "I am going to die experience," they get an overwhelming sympathetic shutdown to their body and it changes their brain
chemistry.
And, people will develop an acute stress reaction and sometimes posttraumatic reaction. So, yes, this girl -- plus, she is laying in an
ICU for days or weeks afterwards, not knowing if she is going to live or die. When confronted with imminent demise, humans are profoundly,
profoundly traumatized.
BLOOM: It is amazing that she could drive herself home. I mean how could she do that after those injuries?
PINSKY: Yes. I mean, it is interesting when, again, people are in the early stages of an injury like that, sometimes their blood pressure is
sustained. They are young. They are otherwise healthy.
FOSTER: Adrenaline.
PINSKY: The adrenaline --
BROWN: Could she be in shock?
PINSKY: She is in sort of a shock -- shock is usually low blood pressure. She is in an emotional shock and she got a flooded with catecholamines, so
she can do a lot of things including continue to fight.
But then when things settle down, then things can spiral and that is when she ended up -- had to be airlifted. By the way, she is actively bleeding
through all of this too. She has ruptured her liver and spleen. That is difficult to do. Karamo, real quick.
BROWN: I wonder if any of the other parents from the aggressive, the other girls, have come forward just to apologize on behalf of their children. I
think that would be a great start --
PINSKY: I agree if there is some justice.
BROWN: Bring your kids to justice. I think that would be a really great thing to happen here.
PINSKY: Oh my God, you want to bring the kids in and, "Hey, you did this? You deal with it. We will have the courts decide what should be done with
you." Thanks for watching. Please DVR us. You can watch us any time and we will see you next.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
END
