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Dr. Drew
O.J. Simpson`s Attorney Uses N-Word on Stand; Nicole Brown Simpson`s Therapist Makes Revelations; Criminal Investigation into Video Captured at Baltimore High School; Disturbing Testimony in Hulk Hogan Sex Tape Case. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired March 09, 2016 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:15] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JORDANA BREWSTER, AS DENISE BROWN CHARACTER IN "THE PEOPLE V. O.J. SIMPSON" FX SERIES: O.J. grabbed Nicole`s crotch and said, "This is where
babies come from, and this belongs to me."
(END AUDIO CLIP)
O.J. SIMPSON, ACQUITTED OF THE 1994 MURDERS OF HIS EX-WIFE AND RONALD GOLDMAN: I don`t give a (EXPLETIVE WORD) anymore.
NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON, EX-WIFE OF O.J. SIMPSON: Could you just please? did you just see -- O.J. O.J. O.J.!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST OF DR. DREW PROGRAM: The 911 phone calls from Nicole to the police about O.J.`s violence, if we`ve been able to
scrutinize that before the tragedy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
NICOLE BROWN (via phone): Could you get someone over here now to 325 Gretna Green, please? He`s back. Please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE 911 DISPATCHER: OK. What does he look like?
NICOLE BROWN: He`s O.J. Simpson. I think you know his record.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
NICOLE BROWN (via phone): H broke the back door down to get in. Please --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE 911 DISPATCHER: OK. Wait a minute. What`s your name?
NICOLE BROWN: Nicole Simpson.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
NICOLE BROWN (via phone): He`s freaking going nuts. My kids are upstairs sleeping and I don`t want anything to happen.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: We need to revisit domestic violence over and over again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LISA BLOOM, CIVIL RIGHTS LAWYER: Nicole said, "If anything happens to me, it was O.J. O.J. did it."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Oh, boy. This gives me chills when I think about that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Breaking news.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This disturbing cell phone video captured on a Baltimore High School Campus.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTHONY SPENCE, BALTIMORE SCHOOL POLICE OFFICER: Go home! (EXPLETIVE WORDS)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARQUEZ: In the five-second clip, you can see a school officer yelling profanities while slapping a young man three times and kicking him as he
walked away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SPENCE: Go home! (EXPLETIVE WORDS)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROLONDA WATTS, HOST OF "ROLONDA ON DEMAND" PODCAST: I`ve got a couple of kids in my life I would love to slap around, but I can`t do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SPENCE: Go home! (EXPLETIVE WORDS)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARQUEZ: One slap striking him so hard, you can hear it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNEELISE GOETZ, ATTORNEY: When we`re looking at the video, there`s more than what those four seconds that we`re seeing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Hulk Hogan, does he deserve $100 million from the website that posted his sex tape? He got very personal on the stand.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TERRY BOLLEA, A.K.A. HULK HOGAN, PROFESSIONAL WRESTLER: Well, it is not mine, because mine is not that size, but we were discussing the length of
Hulk Hogan`s.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLEA: I don`t have a 10-inch penis. No, I do not. It`s been this overriding haunting of this sex tape.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I`m angry that the guy -- the insolence of the guy that would expose somebody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: In 1995, O.J. Simpson`s attorney used the "N" word to shock the jury and bury an LAPD detective while on the stand. In the FX series
"People V. O.J. Simpson," we get to see the exact moment. The plan to attack Mark Fuhrman was hatched. Watch this from FX.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NATHAN LANE, AS F. LEE BAILEY CHARACTER IN "THE PEOPLE V. O.J. SIMPSON" FX SERIES: I`m talking about (EXPLETIVE WORD).
DALE GODBOLO, AS CARL E. DOUGLAS CHARACTER IN "THE PEOPLE V. O.J. SIMPSON" FX SERIES: Excuse me?
LANE AS BAILEY: I`m going to ask that racist son of a (EXPLETIVE WORD) Fuhrman point-blank in a courtroom under oath if he ever uses the word, if
he ever has used the word. If he denies it, the jury will call it (EXPLETIVE WORD). They won`t trust him. If he admits it, it`s even worse.
Check and mate. He`ll be chasing teenage shoplifters around the Beverly Center by Christmas.
COURTNEY B. VANCE, AS JOHNNIE COCHRAN CHARACTER IN "THE PEOPLE V. O.J. SIMPSON" FX SERIES: That`s actually not half bad.
LANE AS BAILEY: Damn right. That`s the most powerful word in the English language. And, I`m going to impale him on it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: And, in reality, F. Lee Bailey, whom you saw there -- portrayed there, he nailed Fuhrman with his line of questioning. And, on the show,
they actually followed his cross-examination nearly to the letter. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LANE AS BAILEY: Do you use the word (EXPLETIVE WORD)?
STEVEN PASQUALE, AS DETECTIVE MARK FUHRMAN IN "THE PEOPLE V. O,J. SIMPSON" FX SERIES: No, sir. I do not use that word to describe people.
LANE AS BAILEY: Have you ever used the word (EXPLETIVE WORD) in the past ten years?
PASQUALE AS DETECTIVE FUHRMAN: Not that I recall, no.
LANE AS BAILEY: You mean if you called someone (EXPLETIVE WORD), you have forgotten it?
PASQUALE AS DETECTIVE FUHRMAN: I`m not sure I can answer the question the way that you phrased it, sir.
LANE AS BAILEY: Let me put it simply. Are you saying under oath that you have not addressed any black person as a (EXPLETIVE WORD) or spoken about
black people as (EXPLETIVE WORD) in the past ten years, Detective Fuhrman?
PASQUALE AS DETECTIVE FUHRMAN: Yes, that`s what I`m saying.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Joining me, Yodit Tewolde, Attorney. Loni Coombs, former prosecutor, who was assigned to the courthouse where the trial, actually,
took place during the trial. Joseph Phillips, actor, conservative commentator and Spirit, Psychotherapist. Loni, you were around during all
this, you were in and out of the courtroom?
LONI COOMBS, ATTORNEY: Yes.
PINSKY: Crazy.
COOMBS: Actually, you know, when the murders happened, I was assigned to the Santa Monica Courthouse. And, that`s where the case should have gone.
PINSKY: So, slow down. Slow down. You would have been Marcia Clark had - -
(LAUGHING)
COOMBS: Well, I am not saying that.
PINSKY: No. No. You would have been in charge of this -- one of the attorneys in charge of the case had a state in Santa Monica, right?
COOMBS: But, there are a number of attorneys there in Santa Monica --
PINSKY: Why are you avoiding it? It`s a fact.
(LAUGHING)
COOMBS: No. It`s not a fact. There are a number of attorneys. And, obviously, the prosecutor on this case would have been picked by Gil
Garcetti at that point.
PINSKY: I see.
COOMBS: But, it would have come to our courthouse. And, in fact, the very next day, Ron Phillips and Mark Fuhrman came in to our office like they
often did. We worked with them regularly, and they said who the victims were on this murder case that they were working on.
They said, "We can`t talk about the details, but it looks like it`s going to shape up to be a strong case." And, then we just assumed it was going
to be coming to us. And, we said, "Who`s representing them?" And, soon, we heard that it was going to be Robert Shapiro, who is an attorney that we
worked with regularly in Santa Monica.
[21:05:07] We thought, "OK, he always pleads out his cases. He`ll probably go for maybe two counts of second-degree murder." I mean, we were
already working through this. And, then all of a sudden, we found out that it was going to go downtown. And, then all of a sudden, there was the
Bronco chase, and it just went crazy from there.
PINSKY: So, let`s take it from the Bronco chase forward. Did you imagine the trial would be such a massive preoccupation in this country?
COOMBS: No. The Bronco chase is just the first inkling. And, even then we couldn`t imagine. But, we sat there in our little break room, in this
little -- in front of this black and white T.V. with rabbit ears and we watched how everyone was cheering for the Bronco as it was going down the
freeway.
And, we were flabbergasted that people would be cheering, assuming that, you know, I mean we know that he was supposed to turn himself in because he
was going to be charged with these two murders. And, at that point, we were like, "What is going on here? Something`s happening that no one could
anticipate."
PINSKY: Now, on the jury, there were nine African-Americans, eight of them were women. And, once Fuhrman had lied about the "N" word, they apparently
couldn`t believe him about anything from then on. So, Yodit, do you think that the prosecution regretted putting him on the stand at all?
YODIT TEWOLDE, ATTORNEY: They may have. I think, you know, Marcia Clark obviously knew what the pitfalls were going to be by putting him on the
stand. But, the defense did a beautiful job because the point of a defense attorney is to create that reasonable doubt for a jury. If one person can
believe that there is some sort of alternative story or questioned the credibility of a witness, then that is a plus for the defense.
PINSKY: You were young enough not to really have been -- were you aware --
TEWOLDE: I saw that Bronco chase.
PINSKY: You saw it.
TEWOLDE: I was at school.
PINSKY: OK. But --
TEWOLDE: They turned that T.V. on at school.
PINSKY: But, you were a child, right?
TWOLDE: I was a child.
PINSKY: In retrospect, is seeing it in this T.V. drama revivifying it for you or was it vivid enough memory even as a child?
TEWOLDE: It was so vivid for me as a child. But, I am so glad that this show is happening now, because it could have been more on time. I mean
there was racial tensions. There was mistrust of police officers in the judicial system. And, that`s kind of what we`re going through today.
PINSKY: So, it is the same thing.
TEWOLDE: Somewhere between that.
PINSKY: How many, 25 years later?
TEWOLDE: Yes.
PINSKY: Where are we?
TEWOLDE: 25 plus years later.
PINSKY: Crazy. Much of the episode on the FX show last night was focused on Marcia Clark, her appearance, her makeover. And, this makeover
apparently was meant to make her appear kind of softer. Take a look at this from FX.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KENNETH CHOI, AS JUDGE LANCE ITO CHARACTER IN "THE PEOPLE V. O.J. SIMPSON" FX SERIES: Good morning, Ms. Clark -- I think.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAN BAUER, AS CASHIER CHARACTER IN "THE PEOPLE V. O.J. SIMPSON" FX SERIES: Next. Uh-oh. Guess the defense is in for one hell of a week, huh?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joseph, it so weird seeing this, because we all know Marcia. She is around here all the time, and just to see what she went through. It was
the beginning of the -- I don`t know what else to call it --
JOSEPH C. PHILLIPS, ACTOR: Reality television.
PINSKY: Reality television and social -- the harbinger of what was to come in social media, too, isn`t it?
PHILLIPS: Absolutely. All of these characters came into our living rooms. They began to pick apart people, lawyers, all of the characters. Kato
Kaelin, the pool boy from -- who lives behind the house. We got to know him intimately. The love of clocks from the judge.
PINSKY: Yes.
PHILLIPS: It was everyone. And, I can absolutely believe that, you know, people took liberties because they -- they think they know you.
PINSKY: You`re right.
PHILLIPS: Well, of course, I know Marcia Clark.
PINSKY: She`s in my living room every night.
PHILLIPS: Yes.
PINSKY: She is just a character on that reality show I watched every day.
PHILLIPS: Yes.
PINSKY: All right. Next up, you`re actually going to hear from Nicole`s therapist. Nicole Brown Simpson`s therapist and what she revealed about
O.J.`s behaviour. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARVEY LEVIN, HOST OF TMZ: Johnnie decided early on that he was going to object to absolutely everything the prosecution did. And, even if the
arguments became absurd, what he ended up doing was controlling the dialogue.
So, Marcia would end up having to defend what she wanted rather than prosecute what she wanted. And, in a way, Marcia became the defense, and
Johnnie became the prosecutor. Johnnie was prosecuting the police. Marcia wasn`t prosecuting O.J. Simpson.
(END VIDEO CLIP
PINSKY: The trial of the century is attracting new audiences now, 20 years-plus later. I`m back with Yodit, Loni, Joseph, and Spirit. Now,
Spirit, I want to show this. Nicole Brown`s therapist spoke out in 1994 revealing why Nicole thought O.J. was stalking her. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. SUSAN FORWARD, NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON`S THERAPIST: Nicole told me that she saw him outside the house after they were separated many times, looking
in the window, in the bushes. That he would show up at restaurants or bars where she had gone. And, she had no idea how he knew she was going to be
there other than he must have followed her. And, she could never, ever breathe or get away from him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So, Spirit, on one hand, we have a story of domestic violence, which, you know, ends as it does in horrible ways many times. But, the
other interesting thing here, this is what you call simple stalking, which is somebody who had a previous relationship with somebody, who then becomes
obsessed and begins stalking.
SPIRIT, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Yes.
PINSKY: And, that is one of the most dangerous forms of stalking, isn`t it? --
SPIRIT: Absolutely.
PINSKY: -- or the most persistent?
SPIRIT: Absolutely, Dr. Drew. And, no one did anything because of who he was. And, it was a circus then, it is mortifying to me now. I haven`t
watched the show. I will not watch the show because to me at the end of the day, O.J. benefited then, not from just being who he was as a
celebrity, but also being in the right place at the right time.
[21:15:09] Because black America and the rest of America who celebrated him being found not guilty, it wasn`t about whether or not he actually did
it. It was about a climate. It was about something that was happening in our culture, where we wanted a sense of justice.
And, unfortunately, we used him getting off as a sense of "Finally someone that is a person of color has been able to get a fair shake and has been
able to get off," when it wasn`t even close to really what happened in that situation.
And, those two people lost their lives, Dr. Drew, and here we are making a spectacle because we`re so intrigued by all the mystery and the interesting
madness around this case. But, we forget about those victims who lived in fear and who died so tragically in that situation.
PINSKY: And, I`m wondering if I`m misunderstanding the sense of the word justice when people say that. To me, justice is sort of closer to the
truth, right? This seems to have been --
SPIRIT: Displacement, come on, Dr. Drew, and projection.
PINSKY: We should have a different word, not justice, then. It should be sort of --
SPIRIT: No, because that is what people felt.
PINSKY: -- restitution or something --
PHILLIPS: No, I disagree.
SPIRIT: No. It was vicariously. I am living vicariously through this man. Here was black man, who was able to finally --
PINSKY: No. I get all that.
SPIRIT: -- go in front of a judge and get off.
PINSKY: I get it.
SPIRIT: That`s what it is about.
PHILLIPS: He was able to beat the system --
PINSKY: He is beating the system, yes.
PHILLIPS: -- not find justice. Otherwise, I agree to what she said --
PINSKY: The word justice --
PHILLIPS: Right.
PINSKY: When people say justice today, are they talking about beating the system or having the system not beat them?
TEWOLDE: Well, you also have to keep in mind that the state is -- they`re the side that has the burden of proof. They have to prove their case
beyond a reasonable doubt. And, so, if they don`t do that, then yes, a defendant has to be acquitted. That`s the law.
PINSKY: Now, right now, the LAPD`s investigating a knife that was found on O.J. Simpson`s former estate. Apparently, it was found by a construction
worker in the late `90s. That guy handed it over to a retired LAPD officer, who kept it ever since. And, there`s debate about whether -- I
heard some people telling me, it was a Swiss Army kniFe. Other people say, it`s a five-inch buck knife.
Apparently, the former medical examiner, who saw the wound said this knife that was found could have inflicted the wounds, which means it was not a
Swiss Army Knife. Because no way that could have nearly cut Nicole Brown Simpson`s head off. And, ratings were up for "People V. O.J." So, is
there something going on here, a conspiracy where magically this knife comes out around the time that this show is airing? I mean, you know,
Loni, you are --
COOMBS: Yes.
TEWOLDE: It doesn`t pass the smell test at all.
COOMBS: No. The timing of it is kind of strange. I mean, I think that there`s so much attention right now on this case, and sort of reliving it.
And, I think the part of the reason people are intrigued by this movie is because it gives all the different points of view.
I mean people watched it. They watched it on their T.V. set every day, but they didn`t know what was going on with the D.A.`s office. They did not
know what was going on with the defense team. And, things they are now -- you feel like you are the fly on the wall in all of those different things.
PINSKY: All right. Next up, I got a teenager who was kicked and slapped and then someone recorded all of it. Now, two police officers have been
criminally charged. It is an unbelievable tape. There it is. We`ll see more about this and talk about it after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SPENCE: Go home! (EXPLETIVE WORDS)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARQUEZ (voice-over): A criminal investigation after the release of this disturbing cell phone video captured on a Baltimore high school campus.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SPENCE: Go home! (EXPLETIVE WORDS)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARQUEZ: In the five-second clip, you can see a school officer yelling profanities while slapping a young man three times and kicking him as he
walked away. One slap striking him so hard, you can hear it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SPENCE: Go home! (EXPLETIVE WORDS)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARQUEZ: The attorney for the teenage youth says he`s a 10th grader enrolled at the public high school and was just trying to attend class.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SPENCE: Go home! (EXPLETIVE WORDS)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Breaking tonight, both officers in the video have now been criminally charged with second-degree assault and misconduct in office.
Anthony Spence, the officer seen slapping the student, also faces a felony charge of second-degree child abuse. Back with Yodit, Loni, Joseph, and
Spirit. Spirit, I understand you want to see this officer brought to justice.
SPIRIT: That`s right. And, you know, Dr. Drew, I said at that night. It`s so hard still for me to even watch the playback on that. I close my
eyes, but then I still -- my eyes, but then I still hear it in my head.
I said at that night that he should have left in a squad car, and I meant that. Because the type of abuse -- not discipline, not justice, but the
type of abuse that he inflicted on that young boy that night is inexcusable.
PINSKY: Now, there are many --
SPIRIT: I don`t care what was done --
PINSKY: -- there are many question about events leading up to that assault on the student, the alleged assault. So, Loni, you have got some new
information on this.
COOMBS: Right. So, at a press conference today, the leading investigator on the case did confirm that the victim was 16 years old and a student, but
wouldnt give anymore details. However, the officer`s attorney was willing to talk -- Officer Spencer`s attorney.
And, he said that, "That day, the two school officers received a call that there was a car illegally parked at the school`s loading dock. So, they
were crossing campus to get to the loading dock when they came upon two young men, who were not wearing school uniforms.
They asked them if they were students. They said there were, but then they couldn`t name the principal. So, the officer told them to leave campus.
One of them did, one didn`t." And, that was the young man that was involved in this altercation.
PINSKY: Does that matter?
TEWOLDE: Not at all. I`m so sick of it -- they tried to do the same thing with the officer in South Carolina, who pulled that young female from her
desk.
PINSKY: Yes.
TEWOLDE: Oh, we didn`t know what happened before the video started recording. Do we care?
PINSKY: Yes.
TEWOLDE: When you watch that video, you see a kid who`s not being physically threatening to this officer. In fact, he`s shielding himself
from the officer`s slaps and kicks. So, this officer absolutely was in the wrong. And, I hope that he`s actually brought to justice and he`s
convicted of these --
PINSKY: Joseph, is there any way the officer is in the right?
[21:25:00] (LAUGHTER)
PHILLIPS: Well -- I`m in an awkward position. First of all, I don`t condone that behaviour. I want to make that absolutely clear. And, I`m
not advocating beating up on young people.
PINSKY: But --
PHILLIPS: That said, I`ve had occasion to interact and work with some young people as of late. And, I can certainly see sometimes how people get
to that point, where they want to do something like that. Again, that`s not excusing it.
I`m saying pushed to the line where they want to. And, this is the point that -- I suspect that this young 16-year-old is not an angel. We live in
a climate now, cultural climate, where a lot of young people are not disciplined by the school. So, they are not threatened, they talk back --
TEWOLDE: That is not the job of the officer.
PHILLIPS: They don`t listen. They don`t --
TEWOLDE: That is not the job of the officer.
PHILLIPS: I`m agreeing with you. I`m agreeing with you. All I am trying to add is add a little bit context to this --
COOMBS: And, it`s actually interesting you said it. Because apparently there is a witness who said that the female officer said to the male
officer, You need to give him a slapping because he`s got a mouth on him," or something like that.
PINSKY: Give him a slapping? See, I am confused is the kindest word I can say about these kinds of behaviors. We covered a story a while ago about a
teen who stole a wallet from a stranger in the park.
And, my panel -- I think we had an audience here, then, too, was defending the stranger who did a similar kind of punishment to the kid that stole the
wallet, because he wouldn`t go home and take -- He wouldn`t let this guy take the kid home to his mom.
So, this guy took the law into his own hands. But, my question is, why is this, what you`re about to see, any different than what the law enforcement
did other than the fact that these guys were officers and we expect more from them? Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Some people going to think I am wrong for this, but he is 14 years old and this is why kids do this (EXPLETIVE WORD). You
feel me? I do not want to do this. Why you stealing from people.
UNIDENTIFIED 14-YEAR-OLD KID: Awwww!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): Bad!
UNIDENTIFIED 14-YEAR-OLD KID: I am sorry. I am sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): Tell them you are sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED 14-YEAR-OLD: I am sorry. I am sorry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joseph, it`s sort of the same thing. It`s a stranger who grabs the young kid of sort of a junior high school, high school age, and starts
beating on him. It`s not different.
PHILLIPS: It`s -- I`m a little loss for words. The difference, of course, is that we do expect more from our law enforcement officers.
PINSKY: Professional, yes.
PHILLIPS: But, again, I just want to emphasize this point -- that in our school systems now, we have unleashed the beast. And, we have young people
who are not afraid, who are not respectful. They are rude. They talk back. And, I`ve been in schools where students have actually drawn up on
teachers.
PINSKY: Yes, but Joseph, I would argue the reason is because they`re probably getting whipped like that at home. That`s where they learned to
be violent and aggressive --
(CROSSTALK)
COOMBS: Physical corporal punishment does not teach them to be peaceful. - -
PHILLIPS: And, I am not --
COOMBS: -- It teaches them just the opposite.
PHILLIPS: And, I don`t advocate corporal punishment.
TEWOLDE: And, police officers do not belong in schools. Unless you have the proper training to deal with students --
COOMBS: They`re school police officers.
TEWOLDE: Exactly.
PINSKY: They are school police.
TEWOLDE: Policing in a school environment is much different than policing on the streets.
PINSKY: Spirit, I hear you trying to come in. Come on.
SPIRIT: Yes, you know, it`s just frustrating because I hear Joseph`s point, and I empathize with that, working in the schools and all of that,
myself. But, there is nothing that contextualizes this that makes this situation OK.
And, what you are saying is almost like, well, in certain situations there have been instances where a certain group of people have done this. So,
that somehow makes this OK. We don`t know any back story on this young man.
We don`t know anything that would even remotely tie him to what you`re contextualizing on the other side. And, at the end of the day, these
officers took an oath to protect and serve. And, they did neither of that with this young man on that day. That is the bottom line.
PINSKY: And, let me --
PHILLIPS: Can I just clarify? Because Spirit, I want you to understand that I agree with you, and that I`m not attempting to excuse the behavior.
The point I`m trying to make is that something that we are doing also in the school systems, whereby not holding kids accountable for their behavior
creates this climate. But, that is not to say that I`m advocating cops beating --
SPIRIT: You`re making two things together that aren`t necessarily connected, though, Joseph.
PINSKY: And, let me --
PHILLIPS: Well, the climate I think is there --
PINSKY: Let me thoroughly throw gun powder on this. What if the officer had been white? Would we be having an entirely different conversation
about this?
PHILLIPS: Probably, but --
SPIRIT: No. My comments would have still been the same.
(LAUGHTER)
PHILLIPS: But, I`m also saying that at one point, I was on social media, and I was rah-rah, just 100 percent, exactly what everyone else was saying.
And, then I got some experience under my belt. And, now, I say, you know what, I still am not advocating it, but I understand the pressure. I
understand what goes on. And, I understand how people get to this point. And, we don`t always see that part of the story."
[21:30:07] COOMBS: I mean, that`s why we have school police on campus now, which we did not have years ago.
SPIRIT: No. No. No.
COOMBS: But, that does not mean you use physical punishment. You have to have ways to be able deal with these --
PINSKY: Spirit, I hear the frustration in your voice. Go ahead, finish this up.
(LAUGHTER)
SPIRIT: Because you know what, Dr. Drew, you know what I see when I look at the video, I don`t see just an officer. What I see in this video was
sublimation.
PINSKY: Yes.
SPIRIT: I see a man who is out of control.
PINSKY: Who is losing. Yes.
SPIRIT: And, so, I look at this and go, if he beat this stranger, this young boy this way, who else has he harmed like this in his life?
PINSKY: That`s right.
SPIRIT: We heard that there was domestic violence allegedly between him and his partner.
PINSKY: Yes. Yes.
SPIRIT: I`m sure that we would see that with his children. This is a man who takes and abuses power. And, if he did it here, this is just one
example. We will hear as the time goes on, mark my words, we will be back having this conversation. The stories will come out --
PINSKY: Yes. You are right. We`ve heard things like this. And, as I`ve learned repeatedly from Sergeant Cheryl, who we have on this show, Retired
LAPD Police Sergeant that -- listen, we want to support the police, but there are guys out there that lose it in certain situations and this is a
misconduct. This is an abuse of power. And, they need to be properly, if not schooled, then they need to be properly handled by the law.
Next up, disturbing testimony in the Hulk Hogan sex tape case. Just how far would a website go when making private things public? How far would
they go? We are going to find out after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Day three of Hulk Hogan`s $100 million case against Gawker. The media site that had posted a portion of a sex tape of Hulk and a friend of
his wife. Terry Bollea, which is Hulk Hogan`s real name, says he had no idea he was being recorded. Let`s look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (voice-over): "Gawker" posts a 1:40 montage from a sex tape recorded in 2016 featuring Hogan and Heather Clem, the wife
of Hogan`s friend and radio host, Bubba "The Love Sponge" Clem. Hogan files two lawsuits.
The first against Bubba and heather Clem. The second against "Gawker" for $100 million. Hogan says he never knew he was being taped. "Gawker" says
showing the footage is protected under the constitution because Hogan has made his sex life a matter of public interest.
Hogan and Bubba reach a settlement. And, Bubba issues a statement saying, quote, "Hulk Hogan was unaware of the presence of the recording device in
my bedroom." Hogan`s $100 million suit against "Gawker Media" is underway.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Back with Yodit, Loni, Joseph, and Spirit. So, guys, is he going to get this money, what do you think? Yodit?
TEWOLDE: No, and if he does, it`s going to go to the appeals court, and the appeals court is going to reverse the decision of the jury trial.
PINSKY: Loni, you agree?
COOMBS: You know what, I actually think now that we have had the Erin Andrews` verdict, I think there might be a little money going his way, I
do.
PINSKY: Right? How is it different than Erin Andrews?
TEWOLDE: First of all, Erin Andrews on the stand is much different than Hulk Hogan on the stand. And, Hulk Hogan likes to distinguish between Hulk
Hogan behavior and Terry Bollea behavior. All the while, he`s wearing the signature bandana, and what handlebar mustache, right?
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: Now, I take exception because he was not wearing an American flag on his head. He was wearing a black bandana and he had sort of clergy
uniform on. Yes.
TEWOLDE: Then, he talks about how this has taken a toll on his life, but he didn`t even go and get and therapy like Erin Andrews did. And, not to
mention, he -- he`s just not that relatable. You have an all-female jury - -
PHILLIPS: I don`t know about that.
TEWOLDE: You have an all-female jury. And, he`s talking about his sexual exploits in the public realm --
PINSKY: No, no.
TEWOLDE: Not on that stand --
PINSKY: That was not Terry, that was Hulk.
TEWOLDE: Oh! We cannot -- that just start to get really hairy.
PHILLIPS: No. I think that the world discovering that you are not endowed with 10 inches of manhood can be very traumatic. I`m ready to write the
check.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: It is a $100 million in case you don`t have a 10-inch penis. Well, there`s a big moment that did happen today. The jury watched -- this
has actually -- this gets me. I want to talk about this, because I am deeply disturbed by this issue.
It is a 2013 deposition. It is of the former "Gawker" Editor A.J. Daulerio, I think I`m pronouncing his name right, who had published
portions of the sex tape. And, this guy has asked some questions that I`m shocked by his answers. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE ATTORNEY: Can you imagine a situation where a celebrity sex tape would not be newsworthy?
A.J. DAULERIO, FORMER EDITOR OF "GAWKER MEDIA": If they were a child.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE ATTORNEY: Under what age?
DAULERIO: 4.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So, packed into that statement is, A. That a 5-year-old being sexually abused he would put out there.
COOMBS: If it is a celebrity --
PINSKY: If it`s of interest to the public. And, B. There`s no limit to anyone`s privacy if there`s a preoccupation in the public as he sees it.
And, then he puts it, he hides it under the first amendment. That`s disgusting.
COOMBS: Yes. See, I think he was the best witness for Hulk Hogan in this case.
PINSKY: Yes!
COOMBS: I think he turned the jury totally sympathetic to Hulk Hogan and saying that "Look, I would put anything -- I didn`t care that this hurt
Hulk Hogan. I didn`t care that it embarrassed him. I am going to put it out, because I think people want to look at it because I liked looking at
it, and I thought it was funny. So, I think everybody else should."
PINSKY: Funny?
COOMBS: That`s what he said.
PINSKY: Funny?
COOMBS: Yes. And, I think that people are going to say, "You know what? Yes, Hulk Hogan is a public person, but there has to be a line when you`re
talking about somebody`s bedroom or you are talking about the actual act of sex. You can talk about things, but that`s not saying "that he`s saying
people can come into his bedroom.
[21:40:00] PINSKY: Yes, but Loni -- Listen. Spirit, help me with this, because it`s not even just people that talk about it. There`s lots of
people on the internet these days that put pictures of themselves out there.
If those people that are in pornography want to have privacy, I don`t care how preoccupied the public is with them, that idiot doesn`t have the right
to hide under the first amendment and put their private moment, whatever they might be, out in the public.
COOMBS: Yes.
SPIRIT: Thank you, Dr. Drew. And, that`s what this $100 million is really about. It is about sending a message that people are tired of being
violated. Because I`m an entertainer means I get paid to entertain you when I say so, when we enter into an agreement. It doesn`t mean everything
about my life is open, including what`s between my legs whenever America feels like it.
PINSKY: And guys -- hey, listen, all of you -- Spirit, Joseph, Loni, Yodit, welcome to the club here. You`re all at risk now, because idiots
like that jerk can say, oh --
TEWOLDE: No!
PINSKY: Listen --
PHILLIPS: Let me tell you something, there`s no cameras in my house. My wife -- she doesn`t play that.
PINSKY: No, what I`m saying is --
TEWOLDE: Do we know that he knew he wasn`t being recorded? Because that`s --
PINSKY: He said --
PHILLIPS: Well, Bubba also said something different on Howard Stern. But, what I find interesting -- I just want to make this point is that we began
talking about the O.J. Simpson trial, and I think that this case, we can draw the line right to that O.J. Simpson trial, and the cameras in the
courtroom, the opening up of O.J.`s lie, Marcia Clark`s life, Christopher Darden`s life, Judge Ito`s life, everybody`s life, suddenly became fair
game. And, I think that this is the --
PINSKY: Final --
PHILLIPS: -- the child. Yes, the demon child of that seed.
PINSKY: But, don`t we agree that people should have a right to privacy?
PHILLIPS: Absolutely.
PINSKY: Just because you, guys, have been on my T.V. show, you have no right to privacy if somebody becomes interested in you?
COOMBS: I think the Erin Andrews verdict shows that people are finally getting to the point where they`re going to draw a line. I think it`s
taken all this time. But I think finally that jury said, "You know, we`re going to draw a line and say `there is a right to privacy`."
PINSKY: All right. Yodit wants to say something. Hold on.
TEWOLDE: When you put your sexual exploits out there as a matter for public interest --
PINSKY: That was Hulk, not Terry.
TEWOLDE: And, in the past you say that you didn`t have sex with your former best friend`s wife, you then leave it open for the press to somehow
disprove that or refute that with evidence or facts.
SPIRIT: No way!
TEWOLDE: And, that`s what happened.
SPIRIT: No way!
PINSKY: Hold on. Spirit, hang on. Hang on.
TEWOLDE: So, again, the issue here is, is this information newsworthy?
PINSKY: So, somebody has no right to deny -- what if was a medical matter and he said, "Listen, I`m not going discuss my medical history." It`s a
matter --
TEWOLDE: I`m not going to discuss my medical history --
PINSKY: -- or what if he` says, no. He is entitled to say no. "Do you have a brain tumor?" "No, I don`t." He doesn`t have to divulge that.
He`s under no privilege to do that.
TEWOLDE: When you make money writing books about your sexual exploits, gone on Howard Stern, his interviews --
PINSKY: Hulk. Hulk.
TEWOLDE: Hulk.
PINSKY: Be careful.
TEWOLDE: You can`t -- No. You can`t just get two bite out of the apple. You can`t be who you are as Hulk Hogan and reap the benefits. And, then,
at the same time say, "Oh, whoa, whoa! I don`t like this about Hulk Hogan. This is actually Terry." It is not fair.
PINSKY: I got to go to break. But, this is what Yodit would be telling the jury.
TEWOLDE: Absolutely.
PINSKY: Loni says the jury came to over the Hulk and Yodit would push him back.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: Next, we got more on this. It`s uncomfortable. The sex tape in the case today. More after this.
(MUSUIC PLAYING)
[21:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLEA: Bubba and Heather, we were together in a car, and he would say, He would say, "Hey, Hootie, Heather says she wants to see you naked" or
"Heather wants to have sex with you" or "Heather wants to see the size of your penis." And, it started out like that, you know, where it was kind of
like joking around. But, it was -- it caught me offguard, you know. It was very weird.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That was Hulk Hogan or Terry Bollea, I`m not sure which one we`re talking to, explaining to a jury Monday that sleeping with his best
friend`s wife started out as a joke. Now, he`s suing "Gawker Media" for $100 million after they leaked a sex tape of those two. Back with Yodit,
Loni, Joseph, and Spirit.
Now, again, I am really bothered by that "Gawker" guy in the deposition, who -- I`ll revisit with you what he said in that deposition, which is the
only thing he would not share with the public if they were interested would be a sex tape with a child age 4 or under. This guy is depraved. I`m
sorry. I don`t know him, but that was under oath.
That is a depraved statement in my humble opinion as a professional. Now, as it pertains to journalistic integrity, they actually put a journalism
professor on the stand today to discuss how "Gawker" didn`t use usual practices by reaching out to Hogan, Bubba Clem, or his wife before posting
that video. This guy said, quote, "It`s important to get all sides of a story, but it`s not required by law. But it`s an ethical standard." Are
we talking -- no, you guys are both wincing. The lawyers --
(LAUGHTER)
PHILLIPS: He is going to show a tape of someone four years old involved in a sexual tryst is not worried about ethics.
COOMBS: Yes.
PINSKY: And, you guys mentioned the Howard Stern interview. So, here now is the Howard Stern interview that played in court yesterday from -- it was
after the sex tape`s release. Stern expects Hulk Hogan, but he`s getting more Terry Bollea. Take a listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
HOWARD STERN, T.V. AND RADIO PERSONALITY: You don`t look physically bad, you look good.
BOLLEA: Well, that`s part of it --
STERN: She`s screaming about your big, thick (EXPLETIVE WORD). Honest to God, are you kidding me? Do you think you came off bad in that tape?
BOLLEA: it got me so sick to my stomach and chest, I felt like I was going to have a heart attack. Ands, I am telling you, dude, it has totally
turned my life upside down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Now, Yodit, you said he did not see a therapist. Well, in that tape or on the stand, he revealed that he went to a physician or doctor
some type after the video`s release. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE ATTORNEY: You went to see doctors and counsellors, you sought treatments for physical ailments. But, does it affect you,
physically?
[21:50:06] BOLLEA: Yes, sir, it did. Not being able to eat. Not being able to sleep constantly thinking about it, 24 hours a day. It`s not
something you can walk away from. It is something that sticks with you. Just my demeanor, I just felt like I was turned inside.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Spirit, he is describing posttraumatic stress disorder --
SPIRIT: Posttraumatic stress disorder.
PINSKY: PTSD --
SPIRIT: Thank you.
PINSKY: -- which is exactly what Erin Andrews got all the money for.
SPIRIT: Thank you.
PINSKY: It is just a male version.
SPIRIT: High five, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: It`s sexist to say that he doesn`t serve the same thing!
SPIRIT: You`re absolutely right. And, what has happened with reality T.V. -- and I use that very loosely because, see, America really doesn`t realize
how scripted reality T.V. really is. They just don`t.
But, we have bought into the idea that because we`re getting to see the behind-the-scenes of people`s lives that now 24/7, their lives totally
belong to us, and we have a right to see this aspect of him. This is crazy, Dr. Drew --
PINSKY: And, Yodit, you cannot fake --
SPIRIT: -- that we cannot see this.
PINSKY: Still, two bites from the apple? This poor guy has PTSD. I don`t care if it`s Hulk Hogan or Terry, that person in that body is having a huge
reaction.
TEWOLDE: I get it. I get it. But the issue in these types of cases, the public disclosure of private facts --
PINSKY: Yes.
TEWOLDE: -- is when the information is newsworthy or there`s some legitimate concern to the public.
COOMBS: It isn`t. It isn`t newsworthy. How --
TEWOLDE: How do we determine newsworthiness?
PINSKY: OK. How do we determine?
SPIRIT: When it`s legitimate to the public.
TEWOLDE: Several factors.
PINSKY: Tell me how. Tell me how.
TEWOLDE: If the information has some sort of social value.
PINSKY: So, the size of Hulk Hogan`s penis is social value -- please tell me how --
TEWOLDE: No.
PINSKY: OK.
TEWOLDE: The depth of the intrusion into one`s personal life.
PINSKY: You can`t go deeper than this, can you? Unless the there`s a kaleidoscope or something --
TEWOLDE: Gawker did not go --
PINSKY: -- I do not understand how you can get deeper than this?
TEWOLDE: We don`t also know that he didn`t know.
PINSKY: You know why this is offensive to me --
TEWOLDE: You do not know about that.
PINSKY: Yodit, I`m offended because I feel this is encroaching -- next is going to be the medical record. That`s the only thing that is in this same
area. This is journalists going to go, we`re entitled to the medical record, why not? Because it`s of the interest to the public.
COOMBS: Right.
PINSKY: That is insanity.
TEWOLDE: Public figures --
PINSKY: No, they don`t have to.
TEWOLDE: Someone in public office has to produce medical records in order for the public if they`re fit for office.
PHILLIPS: And, then so the "Gawker" is then able to dig up any tape that might disprove whatever we might find in the records or what people claim?
I think it`s a slippery slope.
PINSKY: By the way -- attorney-client relationship. Screw that. I want to get involved in the attorney-client relationship. Why should the
physician-patient relationship not be protected and the attorney-client relationship be protected? Forget about it.
TEWOLDE: And, another factor --
PHILLIPS: I want to make this point. This is something that bothers me and one reason that I had very little sympathy. He is suffering PTSD. He
claims now because we now see the tape.
PINSKY: Yes.
PHILLIPS: He didn`t have any problem sleeping with his best friend`s wife, and that is a problem to me --
PINSKY: But, Joseph, to be fair -- yes, I agree, Spirit. You`re judging him for something --
PHILLIPS: Yes, I absolutely am judging him.
PINSKY: -- a couple that have an open relationship and invited him in. That`s --
TEWOLDE: But has not he portrayed himself as a family man?
PINSKY: He was in a divorce.
TEWOLDE: He was portrayed in the public as a family man.
PHILLIPS: What their relationship is and when they have an open relationship, it speaks to his moral character, and that I have a problem
with.
PINSKY: You know what, Joe, I agree on this one area --
SPIRIT: You don`t understand mental health --
PINSKY: But, hang on, Spirit. Spirit, hold it.
(LAUGHTER)
SPIRIT: You don`t understand mental health.
PINSKY: Spirit, hold on. I`ll let you talk after the break. But, the one thing I agree with Joseph on is that he apparently was not yet divorced --
TEWOLDE: He wasn`t.
PINSKY: Yes. It`s not that he was with his friend`s wife. It was that he wasn`t yet divorced. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLEA: We talked about Hulk Hogan several times. I need to get -- make you understand this. That Hulk Hogan gave up his privacy the moment he
walked out his front door, became a celebrity and anonymity.
So, I don`t like talking about Hulk Hogan`s penis, but I`ve already -- it is hard to explain to you. I gave up my right as Hulk Hogan to have Hulk
Hogan have any privacy. I don`t know how much clearer I can make that to you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And, that was Terry Bollea arguing that he is different. He is other than his alter ego Hulk Hogan and he has a different right to privacy
than the public figure Hulk Hogan. Back with Yodit, Loni, Joseph, and Spirit. And, spirit, you were chanting something about not understanding
mental health. Tell me what you meant.
SPIRIT: That`s right. And, we don`t have a lot of time, but all I can say is that celebrities are people, too, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Yes.
SPIRIT: #ChangeMentalHealth. Change mental health. We`ve got to understand it better.
PINSKY: The other thing is it`s very common -- almost every celebrity I`ve ever treated has an alter -- they don`t use their real name. They have
sort of an alter that they present the world. So, this is not uncommon at all. Maybe people feel a little exposed when they get into the public, and
so they back away. Their private self is separate from their public self.
COOMBS: Like Beyonce talks about Sasha Fierce. And I, actually, think that society is starting to understand that better, too, which is why I
think the Erin Andrews` jury found for her. And, I think that he has a good chance of selling this Hulk Hogan versus Terry Bollea.
PINSKY: You said something during the break that had it not been for Erin Andrews, what?
COOMBS: I would not think that Hulk would get anything. But, now that Erin got $55 million, which shocked me, I think, that the public is fair to
say, "Yes, you have the right to privacy."
PINSKY: But, Yodit is still shock that Hulk wants $100 million.
TEWOLDE: I wasn`t shocked by the Erin Andrews. I think she deserved all of it -- in fact, more. If he wins anything in this jury trial or this
jury, he is going to get reversed. He is going to win nothing in the appellate level.
PINSKY: Why?
TEWOLDE: Period. The appellate court already reversed the injunction that the court -- the judge ruled that, that the video had to come down.
PINSKY: We`ve got to go, guys.
TEWOLDE: The appellate court -- No, it`s not --
PINSKY: I know -- see, it`s attorneys, they protect their territory, but the rest of us have to --
TEWOLDE: No, it`s black and white. The appellate court said, no.
PINSKY: WE`VE got to go. DVR us, so you can watch us any time. Thank you, panel. Thank you all for watching. We will see you next time.
[22:00:00] (MUSIC PLAYING)
END
