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Dr. Drew
Major "Forensic Files" Updates On The Sharee Miller Conspiracy Murder Case; Dramatic Moments In The Hulk Hogan Sex Tape Trial; Jared Fogle Assaulted In Prison; The Woman Who Slept With Hulk Hogan On That Sex Tape Is Taking The Stand; Heather Cole Says She Is The Real Victim; Former Subway Pitchman Jared Fogle Wants His Prison Sentence Reduced; Jared Fogle Beat Up By A Fellow Inmate
Aired March 17, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:15] (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE NARRATOR (voice-over): Tonight major updates on the "Forensic Files" episode you just watched. The detective who cracked the
case is here. Sharee Miller, the woman responsible for the murder of her husband was sentenced to life in prison. She was set free after that
episode aired. She gave her side of the story to "Dateline."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HODA KOTB, DATELINE NBC CORRESPONDENT: Did you manipulate Jerry Cassaday into killing your husband?
SHAREE PAULETTE KITLEY MILLER, CONSPIRED TO MURDER HER HUSBAND: No, I did not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE NARRATOR: 1999, her husband Bruce Miller is shot while talking on the phone in his office. Police were stumped until a
suicide occurred 600 miles away. Former Homicide Detective Jerry Cassaday had shot himself in the head. At his house, police discovered a videotape.
The woman on it, Sharee Miller.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE DETECTIVE: Did you ever send naked pictures of yourself to Jerry?
MILLER: No!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE DETECTIVE: Did you ever send Jerry films of you naked?
MILLER: Films of me naked? No, I did not.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE NARRATOR: The two had struck up an online relationship.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER PLUMMER, PROSECUTOR, HIGH TECH CRIMES UNIT: It showed her saying things to this guy to really kind of bring his blood to both a
sexual and emotional boil.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE NARRATOR: She told Jerry her husband was abusive and finally convinced him to kill her husband.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LT. KEVIN SHANLIAN, LEAD DETECTIVE: He could not see what the truth was anymore and what was the lie. He was going to be the white knight for
Sharee Miller. He was going to kill the dragon and claim his property.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE NARRATOR: Perhaps, the most damning evidence, a suicide note left by Jerry.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JERRY CASSADAY, FORMER HOMICIDE DETECTIVE WHOM SHAREE HAD ONLINE RELATIONSHIP WITH (voice re-enactment): I was so blind and so stupid and
so much in love. Little did I know she never meant any of it. She just wanted all her money and no more husband. Sharee was involved and helped
set it up. I have all the proof.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(MUSIC INTRO PLAYING)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST OF "DR. DREW" SHOW: And, we will be showing you dramatic moments in the Hulk Hogan sex tape trial. Plus Jared Fogle
assaulted in prison. The brother of the ma, who assaulted him is here.
But, first, Sharee Miller has got a lot to say. You will here from her directly, and a great deal has happened to her since that "Forensic
Files" aired. In 2001, sentenced to life in prison. In 2009, the judge grants her a new trial. Sharee was eventually released for three years.
In 2012 the judge reverses that decision. Sharee is back to prison. Joining us, Sara Azari, Criminal Defense Attorney; Vanessa Barnett,
Journalist; Troy Slaten, former Prosecutor and Kevin Shanlian, Lead Detective in the Sharee Miller case. Now, Kevin, they exchanged over 1,400
e-mails. But as you found in your detective work, she was into more stuff than just e-mails with this one guy.
LT. KEVIN SHANLIAN, LEAD DETECTIVE: She was. She had very numerous lives that she was living with females and males and manipulated many
people.
PINSKY: How did you figure this out? Was this all just secondhand reporting or did you actually talk to the people who were the objects of
her manipulation?
LT. SHANLIAN: As soon as the suicide occurred, it appeared to be a robbery but we still did the basic police work. And, we checked on her
whereabouts and we checked on her story. And, that is where within days, we had information that she was at a local bar in a town of about 300
people committing a sex act on the dance floor before her husband was even put into the ground. So, we followed up and kept a loose tail on her even
though she had a rock solid alibi for the night of the homicide.
PINSKY: Now, she explained those e-mails between she and Jerry in an interview with NBC. I want you to all watch this. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KOTB: Do you love Jerry Cassaday?
MILLER: No. I was not in love with Jerry Cassaday. No.
KOTB: Do you think Jerry Cassaday was in love with you?
MILLER: Did he love me or the fantasy?
KOTB: Some people might just by looking at the e-mails think those are two people in love.
MILLER: Yes. And, if you read a Danielle Steel book you will believe that too, you know. I mean, people talk. That is what we were doing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Sharee told NBC she was shocked when police arrested her for her husband`s murder. Take a look this now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KOTB: Did you manipulate Jerry Cassaday into killing your husband?
MILLER: No, I did not.
KOTB: When police said to you, you are under arrest for the murder of your husband Bruce, what flashed through your mind? What did you say?
MILLER: "My kids." I just started yelling, "What am I going to do with my kids." "Why would you think I would do this?" I started crying.
I could not believe. It was like a nightmare.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: OK. That is why I brought two defense attorneys in today, because I cannot believe anybody would have something cohesive to say about
this case. But, Sara, I am going to give you first crack at it.
[19:05:05] AZARI: Well, OK. This is baloney. All right?
PINSKY: What is baloney?
AZARI: Everything that she is saying, denying that she was involved in this --
PINSKY: She lied. You know one thing for sure she is lying.
AZARI: Absolutely.
PINSKY: OK. That, we do know.
AZARI: And, a sociopath. And --
PINSKY: Well, I do not know that yet, but I thought you were a defense attorney.
AZARI: Well, no -- but here is the thing. There is clear evidence from the instant messages going back and forth.
PINSKY: Yes. Although, she says those were fabricated.
AZARI: Right. And, that is my point. It is not enough to say that people are fabricating something or pointing the finger at somebody else.
You have to show a motive. So, what is Jerry is motive in fabricating these instant messages?
PINSKY: Well, maybe -- maybe Troy, maybe he is angry that she broke up with him and he wants to get back at her like a spurned lover.
TROY SLATEN, FORMER PROSECUTOR: It is all about money, Drew. Money is the root of all evil. But, I think -- Yes.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
But, I think that the judge -- the first judge made a good decision by admitting the suicide note. That is why her case got overturned on
appeal because the court said, "Well, maybe that suicide note should not come in." But, yes, it should come in because it totally implicated her.
PINSKY: On what grounds would it not be admissible?
SLATEN: Because you cannot cross examine a piece of paper. You cannot put the piece of paper on the witness stand and let defense
attorneys like us ask the really hard questions.
PINSKY: It is hearsay.
SLATEN: It is hearsay.
PINSKY: In his handwriting, his words --
AZARI: He is not there to be cross examined.
SLATEN: There is a lot of exceptions, though. And, this was one of the exceptions.
PINSKY: Vanessa, you think it is weird? I think it is weird.
VANESSA BARNETT, JOURNALIST: This is B.S.
PINSKY: Yes.
BARNETT: Beyond weird. I mean, the man is spelling out the whole case for you. You got to let it in. I am from the common sense court. I
do not know what court they work in. It is all common sense here. The man spells it out. He would never kill her husband how she not put him it up
to it
PINSKY: And, this business -- we just heard that last piece there, "Hey, people talk. What are you going to do? Just a little chatty." She
also lied to this guy about being pregnant. She says it was because he was depressed and then thought, that "Well, I will cheer him up. I will let
him think he is going to child coming."
And, then she made up the story about her husband making or getting an abortion, because she did not explain why she was not pregnant when she
actually had sex with Jerry the next time, that pretty much.
This woman sounds, I mean -- This story flipped me out a lot. I got to tell you. Because to me, if 70 percent of this -- just 50 percent of it
is true, it shows how much people can get into behaviors, how untrustworthy somebody can be. But, I am generally a trusting person. It is rocking me
a bit.
AZARI: This is a homicide detective.
BARNETT: Exactly.
AZARI: This is not an average Joe. This is a guy who can tell when someone is telling the truth versus someone lying to him, and he was duped.
So, imagine.
PINSKY: But, Kevin, comment on that if you would. That is a really important point, is not it?
LT. SHANLIAN: Yes. It helped him delaying what we found and discovered, because he left no evidence behind at the scene.
PINSKY: No, no. But, Kevin, I think you are missing the point. The point is that here is a pretty savvy dude that is used to dealing with
untrustworthy people and even he was duped by this chick.
LT. SHANLIAN: True. She manipulated him. When you read all 1,400 emails, it was a roller coaster ride for him. She was sexually available
to him in any way that he would like. And, then she would cut him off and tell him these wild stories that her husband was involved with the mafia,
that she lost three of Jerry`s kids to being beat. He just let her lead him down the road that emotionally he could not see what was really going
on.
PINSKY: All right. We will keep this going. We are going to talk to Sharee`s former attorney. And, later, Jared Fogle. He is assaulted in
prison. The brother of the man who assaulted Jared Fogle will be here with me. We will be right back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[19:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(INSTANT MESSAGES BETWEEN MILLER AND CASSADAY)
MILLER (voice reenactment): Jerry, I am scared. Jerry, if this do not work, he will hurt me bad.
CASSADAY (voice reenactment): It will work. What is the fastest way into the yard from 75.
MILLER: 75 to Mount Morris Road Exit. No, you need to listen to me for a minute. I will call Bruce at 5:00 p.m.
CASSADAY: OK.
MILLER: Is the gun loud?
CASSADAY: Somewhat:
MILLER: Just do it and get the hell out of there.
CASSADAY: I want him to know who I am.
MILLER: Jerry, please.
CASSADAY: He will know.
MILLER: He will know?
CASSADAY: But not for long.
MILLER: Are you going to be able to live with this the rest of your life, because I cannot.
CASSADAY: I love you. Yes, I can.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
PINSKY: That was from NBC. Those are instant messages between Sharee and her online -- well, actually, real life lover that what was read
aloud in court. They detail how the two of them planned to murder Sharee`s husband.
We are revisiting the "Forensic File." We are breaking it down, giving you update on the story, as a lot has happened since that originally
was produced. We have some of the principals here. And, we got a lot to say about it.
Sara, Vanessa, Troy, Kevin still with me. And, on the phone, I have David Nickola. He was Sharee`s attorney. But, David, you say the
"Forensic Files" episode was one-sided. Why is that?
DAVID NICKOLA, SHAREE MILLER`S FMR. DEF. ATTORNEY: Well, in reality, Dr. Drew, the I.M.s were not considered by the jury, because they believed
they were fabricated or could have been fabricated. And, the AOL security -- well, head of security, who was on the tape a minute ago, he said that
they could be edited only after we showed him a live demonstration that they could be.
But, their position before, they could not be edited. So, we were able to show them, it was something that could have been edited. It was
found after the murder. And, also that in that particular case, the jury called me. Some jurors called me afterwards and said, "We did not even
look at it, because it was not good enough."
PINSKY: My understanding is you said though that those instant messages were fairly damning and may have lost you the case. How is that?
NICKOLA: They could have because it was the only thing that showed a plot and a plan. But the jury did not consider it, because they did not
believe it was believable.
PINSKY: Did you have a theory about what had happened to this man?
NICKOLA: Yes. It was not given to us in the beginning of the case in discovery or at any time. The emails that were suggested that they found
on the hard drive by Sergeant Petroska (ph). He said the relevant ones we looked at. There were dozens and dozens and dozens of other people
Cassaday communicated with before and after this homicide.
[19:15:07] He had at least a half dozen women he was talking sexually in nature to. There were all sorts of kinky sites that had been
looked at, that was on his hard drive. I mean, things were all out there - - and what is not. So, he was not in such love that he would go commit a murder. He was trying to pick up other women as well.
PINSKY: And, yet, I am going to bring Kevin back into this. Kevin, you say she was up to some of the same stuff, though. Is that correct?
LT. SHANLIAN: Yes. She had numerous males and females in her life sexually. And, even moved in a local deliveryman days after the murder
occurred.
PINSKY: Again, everybody, keep your life simple, everybody. I say this every night in this show. Every time we review a "Forensic Files," I
just think, "Oh, my God, trust your instincts. Keep things simple." There is a reason we commit to one person.
The more violations, the more infidelities, the more crazy feelings develop, the more unpredictable -- who called it the other day, the x-
factor could be, Danine said. She is expert in infidelity and she sees so many people erupt in ways you would not have predicted. They would not
even have predicted it.
BARNETT: She sounds like hot car dad. Remember all those like sexual things that he was up to and then he just ended up killing somebody.
PINSKY: Sex addiction everybody. But, back then, they did not think about it that way. Let us look at the suicide note that Jerry Cassaday
left. And, said, quote, "Mom and dad, I am sorry for all the pain I caused you, but I had to do this. Here is why.
After Sharee and I got together, I found out she was married. She lied to me, and lied to me. Made promises, as you well know, and I
believed them all. Sharee was involved and helped set it up. I have all the proof and I am sending it to the police. She will get what is coming."
So, David, is that you think him just being a jilted lover trying to get her stuck into his web? Is he just psychotic and just making trouble?
I mean, this was an upstanding guy other than his online practices, was not he?
NICKOLA: Well, Drew, you know that people who commit suicide try to make their suicide note make them look like a better person and changed all
the problems that they had in their life. This guy was a detective. He got thrown off the force. He was a pit boss.
You think detectives and pit bosses are the kind of guy, who get duped by somebody over the internet. I will tell you what. He did not
mention one thing, one thing about what happened to the murder and how he did it, not one.
Now, this man was killed with a shotgun. Jerry Cassaday leaving a suicide note, tell us where you put the shotgun so we can verify it was
you. He did not put that. There were no gas receipts coming up. No gas that are back. The detective, who is going to set somebody up, they would
have set her up completely.
PINSKY: Troy.
SLATEN: Just because he did not lay out all the grizzly details in his suicide note does not mean that he did not do it, when he starts out by
saying, "Mom and dad, I am sorry I did this. This is why I did it."
PINSKY: But, to be fair, that was to mom and dad, not to the general public, I imagine.
BARNETT: Right.
PINSKY: But, Vanessa.
BARNETT: OK. Playing devil`s advocate here. Sharee is crazy and she orchestrated the same. But, he is a homicide detective. He should
know. Murder equals bad. Why did not he just rescue this girl and bring her to his town and just save her from her mean old husband?
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Yes. David, I imagine you brought that up during the case, no?
NICKOLA: Yes. It was brought up, yes. The jury was hung twice. And, it was a Friday night, three days before Christmas, the jury was
hopelessly hung. They were crying and screaming at each other during deliberations, came out crying. So, this jury had a hard time.
And, I will tell you what. Think about this, lawyers. The federal judge let her go for three years on a bond. When can you name another case
where a woman convicted of murder was released for three years? The federal judge knew the facts.
PINSKY: Kevin, you knew the facts too. How do you respond to that?
LT. SHANLIAN: Well, the facts are that Jerry did leave us a lot of evidence. He left us the instant message. He left his hard drive where we
recovered a majority of the emails that led to it. But, remember, he was in love with her. He was a homicide detective.
Shortly after the murder, he thinks he is going to marry her and life is going to go on. He got rid of key evidence then. There was no other
person. The instant message was the script. We proved it with the phone records.
We proved it with the vernacular that was use in the there that was only familiar to people in a 25 square mile area of different reference
points. There is no question Jerry did this and there is no question that Sharee was involved.
PINSKY: And, I am reminded that I see -- hang on a second, David. As I see the Flint, Michigan, sign above your head there, Kevin, I am reminded
that Vanessa is from Flint, Michigan. So --
BARNETT: Do not link me to her. I do not want that.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: -- That is all I am saying. Audience question.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I have a question. If he was so great at being able to figure out like getting rid of evidence, why did not
they just pick up a phone?
PINSKY: What do you mean?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Why did not they call and talk about all this? Why did they have to do it through instant messaging, that
would leave a paper trail?
PINSKY: And, I think -- I have a feeling -- I will ask this and David how do you answer it. I think back then people did not think about instant
messaging and emails as being something anybody would be able to track down.
[19:20:00] They think more in terms of "Oh my God! If I am on the phone they will know I made a phone call to this guy." The other stuff
seemed far more clandestine. David, am I right on that?
NICKOLA: You are right to a point of the emails. Remember what happened to these emails. These e-mails were so nasty, so naughty. They
would make a pink blush. I am telling you. They had two deputies get up there.
One a pretty boy, who is Jerry and one that was an older kind of beaten out deputy on the street, and they read these very, very, very vile
emails. Sharee accepted responsibility for those emails. She did not accepted responsibility for saying "I am" because that is key. The jury
did not look at it. They did not believe it.
PINSKY: I think they did not think in terms of the emails being something somebody would have access to. I mean, that is a relatively new
kind of awareness we have. All right, we have a little more to say on this. I got my principal players here. We got the audience questions.
And, later, I have Jared Fogle beat up by a fellow inmate. A prison insider is here to tell us what happened. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[19:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MILLER: I will fight this for the rest of my life if I have to. I cannot see myself spending the rest of my life in prison for something I
did not do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHUCK MILLER, BRUCE`S MILLER`S BROTHER: She is a two-bit whore as far as I am concerned. That is what she is.
JUDY MILLER, CHUCK MILLER`S WIFE: You know, and she says she`s changed and she wants to help people she`s hurt. Well, she hasn`t reached
out to any of us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Sharee Miller says she had nothing to do with her husband`s murder. A jury thought otherwise and sentenced her to life in prison. We
are updating a "Forensic File" episode with facts that have come to light since that show aired.
I am back with Sara, Vanessa, Troy and Kevin, the lead investigator in the case with us. And, also on the phone, I have David Nickola. He was
Sharee`s attorney. And, Sara, you wanted to ask David a question.
AZARI: Yes. David, my question is, I understand there was a handwritten note found on Sharee`s computer desk with a misspelling of
somebody`s name, O`Connor, O`Connell, something like that and a phone number. And, it was pretty damning that they were able to match that same
name misspelled on one of the instant messages on AOL. How significant was that in the case?
NICKOLA: It was significant because here is Jerry playing detective at one point when it comes to setting her up, but not the other. He
contacted her. She testified. He called and said this person, write this name down.
This is the person you need to call if I get in trouble or something comes up down here. He would been arrested down there. He had troubles
with alcohol and drugs. He is living in a family member`s basement, where he is going to be put out. In the instant message that was messaged as
well, right?
But, he put that together after the fact. So, that was a nice little setup for her from there. Again, setting her up, but he never said -- and
do not tell me he might have disposed of the shotgun and what not. He knows where he disposed of it. She at least say, "I did this." Now, the
detective would say that if they actually did it.
PINSKY: Kevin, what do you say to that?
LT. SHANLIAN: I say that, I call BS on that. The number was found that matched the instant message. If she received it in a phone call, she
would not have been able to misspell the name wrong. She would not have been able to write the numbers in the exact format wrong. It was a one in
2 quintillion chance that, that would have occurred. That is 19 zeroes behind the number 2.
(LAUGHING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Now, listen, I am going to show you, how Sharee discussed her marriage with her husband. Now, Kevin, says this was typical behavior
with many folks in the community. But, here is what she said about her husband and herself on NBC.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KOTB: What kind of a relationship did you and Bruce have? What sort of a marriage was it? .
MILLER: Wild.
(LAUGHING)
KOTB: Was it wild?
MILLER: Spontaneous. We could do it kind of like naughty at night, good in the daytime. I don`t know. You know, like I`m a Mary Kay
consultant and mom and all that and business owner in the daytime. And, you know, we did wild things at night. That was us. That made us happy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: At best, Kevin, you would say she was compartmentalized, because she goes, `Oh, people just chat and they have sex when they chat.
They, you know, sext each other. What is up with that? No big deal." But, you said, it got a lot worse than just that.
LT. SHANLIAN: She found relationships with ex-boyfriend`s girlfriends, with people that were in her life, apparently. She kept
relationships going. She formed relationships with the Cassaday family after Jerry committed suicide. She just had to have everyone available to
her at her whim to manipulate.
PINSKY: David, I am going to give you some last words here. Go ahead.
NICKOLA: It is easy to say that but in reality, we are talking 1999. The jury convicted her on her morality not the facts. During this current
day and age, we have cheating websites that have been -- if she had this trial today, what we know about the psychosis people have, that you know
Dr. Drew, the problems that people have, she would have been found not guilty.
PINSKY: So, it would have been all sex addiction, guys. Is that the defense you would have used, Troy?
SLATEN: You know, maybe. But, you know, he is saying, "Oh, the jury convicted her on morality." No. Jurors try hard to get it right.
PINSKY: On the facts.
SLATEN: You know, they spent a lot of time. He said that they were crying, that they were spending all this time in the deliberation room.
PINSKY: I know what it is. It is the lead in the water in Flint.
(LAUGHING)
That is what it is. It is the government`s fault. That is what it is. All right, guys. Thank you very much. Thank you David and Kevin for
joining us. I appreciate it.
Next up, the woman who slept with Hulk Hogan on that sex tape is taking the stand. You will see it after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[19:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TERRY BOLLEA, AKA "HULK HOGAN", PROFESSIONAL WRESTLER: My problem is, is this whole -- the videotape that you guys put out. It lives
forever. It will be there forever.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE ATTORNEY: Did you want to also show some portions of sexual activity?
DAULERIO: Yes, very brief portions, just to clarify and confirm that they were in fact having sex.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICK DENTON, GAWKER MEDIA FOUNDER: This story was true and interesting, and we would absolutely publish it again in a heartbeat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Hulk Hogan`s partner in the sex tape, this is Bubba, the Love Sponge`s ex-wife. She is on the stand. She says she is the real victim in
this case. Her name is Heather Cole. She claims she had no idea she was being record. I guess, it must have been the husband. She was having sex
with her husband`s best friend and no idea she is being recorded. Here she is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEATHER COLE, HULK HOGAN`S PARTNER IN THE SEX TAPE: At some point after the encounter at our house, Mr. Bollea, Mr. Clem -- showed me a
videotape of myself and Mr. Bolles having sex.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Mr. Clem and Mr. Bollea. I mean, Mr. Bollea is who you are having sex with. Mr. Clem is your husband. Is not that a weird way on
the stand to refer to -- I just walk away from all of our stories going -- OK.
(LAUGHING)
[19:35:08] Joining me by phone, I got CNN Money Reporter, Tom Kludt. He is following the trial in Florida. So, Tom, how did Hogan react during
Heather`s testimony while it was being played for the jury?
TOM KLUDT, CNN MONEY MEDIA REPORTER: Well, Hogan kept his head down for much of the deposition, which spanned nearly two hours. But, the
juries just could not keep their eyes off. They were absolutely glued to the flat screen television that was positioned in front of them.
It was really riveting and gripping testimony from Cole. You know, as I said, her taped deposition was over an hour and a half. And, through
it all, the juries could hear her fighting back tiers as she was asked to describe her open relationship with Bubba Clem.
She said that Bubba recorded her having sex with multiple men, but to her knowledge he only recorded her with Hogan at one time. She also says,
she was actually quite upset when Hogan drew attention to the sex tape with the litigation. In her words, she said she just wanted it all to go away.
Drew.
PINSKY: All right. Thank you, my friend. Sara, Vanessa, Troy still with me. And, Sara, you are not buying heather`s affect here or her story.
AZARI: No. Absolutely not. I mean, she is such a victim and she has had all this time to sue Gawker since the video leaked. She has had time
to, you know, seek damages for her invasion of privacy.
PINSKY: But, she just wants it to go away. She does not want to keep it out there in the courts. She just wants to pretend, it did not happen.
AZARI: But, Dr. Drew, I think it is important to go back to the initial statement of her ex-husband, Bubba, who said everybody knew they
were being recorded, that Terry Bollea --
PINSKY: But, he ended up getting sued by Terry.
AZARI: Correct, and then the story changed. But, initially, the story was that everybody knew they were getting taped. Look. I think they
are just a bunch of swingers. Maybe, she was not initially into it, but her husband got her into it. That is their lifestyle. And, usually people
that do that do it, so that they can press play and watch it later. And, there is a risk that, that tape is going to leak.
PINSKY: Vanessa, bring me back to reality for a second, will you? Give me a common sense court now.
BARNETT: In a weird way, I believe her. I am sorry, I do not agree. I for some reason believed this woman. I do not know why. I think the
fact that they were swinging and sexing everybody who had something to sex with is just disgusting. But, for whatever reason, she seems honest about
it. She is like "Hey, we did X, Y and Z, but I was not on camera for this relationship and it should not be out in the public.
PINSKY: Now, she testified that when the sex tape became public, she just wanted it to go away as we have been saying here. But Hogan kept
talking about it on radio shows or what not. Just take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLE: I thought that I did not have anything to say about it and I was very hurt and I felt the other people involved should behave the same
way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So, Troy, she thinks that Hulk Hogan was attracting more attention to what she was feeling shame as a result. He was talking about
his outrage at it having happened, but it maybe inadvertently attracting more attention.
SLATEN: She was not feeling incredulous as her husband was handing a condom to Hulk Hogan, saying "Go have fun guys." You know, she did not
seem so incredulous then. And, that she would even participate in this and then to have these crocodile tears later. I am not buying it. --
BARNETT: Do not you slut shame her.
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
SLATEN: Well, you know --
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
BARNETT: You do not know what happened in that bedroom. But it is not OK. If her husband --
SLATEN: She had sex with her husband`s best friend.
BARNETT: It is disgusting but her husband said have sex with my --
SLATEN: Oh, I did not mean to shame her.
BARNETT: Do not shame her. Whatever happens in their relationship is their relationship, but it still is not for public consumption. It is
still not fair to her.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: And, to be fair, Bubba, Bubba Clem, Bubba the Love Sponge, who is the one they think recorded this tape did not have to testify. His
lawyer will plead the fifth on his behalf. It would have been important to this case, no?
AZARI: He would have. Because the issue of whether there was knowledge of being taped or not is what is going to help or harm Gawker, I
think, in this case. So, that means the fact that he is invoking his fifth, means there is some exposure, some criminal exposure out there that
he is trying to protect himself.
PINSKY: Hang on here. You said if someone takes the fifth, they are necessarily guilty.
(LAUGHING)
SLATEN: Oooh!
PINSKY: Is that what you said?
AZARI: No. That he is exposed. That there could be allegations of a crime and that the best thing to do is shut up and not say a word.
PINSKY: All right. Now, the publisher of Gawker explains, why this was news at all. Why is sex tape of Hulk Hogan is considered something we
called news. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICK DENTON, GAWKER MEDIA FOUNDER: The piece had value, that it was true. It was honestly -- it was a story honestly told and it was
interesting to millions of people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I mean, that just says there is nothing guiding publishing of news and material other than its interest to people. There is no
ethical guideline other than whether or not millions of people are interested.
BARNETT: As a journalist, that is disgusting to me. Like there has to be some boundaries. We need to set some limits. You cannot just throw
a story out there because people will read it. That is how you get these stakes through. That is how you get these lies.
[19:40:03] SLATEN: But, he put himself in the public eye. He is not just a random person.
BARNETT: His penis is not in the public eye. I do not need it.
SLATEN: But, everything about him, you know. He put himself into the public square --
AZARI: No. He did not just put himself in the public square, but he put his sex in the public square. It is not just his celebrity status.
SLATEN: That is true.
AZARI: This is a guy who goes around and brags about the size of his package.
PINSKY: Of Hulk, not Terry though. He makes a distinction.
AZARI: No. Hulk and Terry are the same person. That just aggravates me. That just annoys me that there is this distinction. It is the same
person.
PINSKY: Well, I will just tell you --
BARNETT: Just because he talks about sex is now you get to see his sex, you get to see in his bedroom.
AZARI: I do not want to see his sex tape --
BARNETT: That is crazy to me.
AZARI: -- but there are plenty of people that do.
PINSKY: But, look, the argument, then Sara is that if you are a porn star, you have zero rights to any privacy ever, because after all you are
putting it out there on these tapes.
AZARI: I would think you have to look at it on a case-by-case basis. This a guy who --
PINSKY: You got to keep more attorneys employed is what you are saying. I am just saying, I think there has got to be limits to this.
And, when you read some of the things they wrote about -- they only showed like 9 seconds of tape or something, but when you read what they wrote and
the innuendo and the editorialization, which were really -- I mean they were disdainful, derogatory implications and aspersions directed directly
at this guy.
I mean, somebody needs to pull their chain back and hold them accountable for this, that you cannot say just whatever you want whenever
you want it just because it is interesting that to other people.
Next up, new allegations against convicted pedophile, Jared Fogle. We will get into, it after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[19:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JARED FOGLE, CONVICTED PEDOPHILE: Hi, I am Jarred, the Subway guy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSH MINKLER, U.S. ATTORNEY: Fogle admitted that he repeatedly traveled from Indiana to New York to engage in commercial sex acts with
victims he knew to be children.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: The details are flat out stunning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Documents show exclusive images of children as young as 6 were uncovered.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEREMY MARGOLIS, FOGLE`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jared Fogle expects to go to prison. Jared also knows that he has a medical problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBIN MEADE, HLN HOST OF "MORNING EXPRESS WITH ROBIN MEADE" SHOW: Former Subway pitchman Jared Fogle wants his prison sentence reduced.
Right now, he is serving more than 15 years for child porn and other charges.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST OF "NANCY GRACE" SHOW: His nickname behind bars is Chomo, child molester, bombshell, the pervy pitchman, Jared Fogle
attacked.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That is right, Nancy. Jared Fogle, pervy pitchman attacked in prison. We will have more on that in just a minute. There is a little
support for that from my audience.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
But, first, I have got a new federal lawsuit that alleges he was an accomplice in the secret videotaping, get this, shocking, it is Jared, nude
minors. Back with Sara, Vanessa and Troy. And, I am not talking about people that were spelunking right on their hat. I am talking about
children. Vanessa, what do we know.
BARNETT: So, the lawsuit was filed by one of the under age victims that sent him to prison. That case has sent him to prison for 15 years.
And, also names Russell Taylor, who used to be the head of his charity. And, he is currently serving 27 years for child porn and child
exploitation.
PINSKY: This is so unclear. Is that the other guy we are seeing? That is his accomplice?
BARNETT: Yes. That is him. The lawsuit alleges that Taylor secretly videotaped the under-aged victim several times when she visited their home
between 2011 and 2015. And, that Taylor shared the nude images with Fogle and the victim is seeking $150,000.
PINSKY: All right. Buckle up. Buckle up, everybody. Because this suit says that cameras were concealed in clock radios, then positioned
towards the victim and other minors as they were changing clothing, showering, bathing. Sara, I got vomit in my mouth.
AZARI: I understand that. But, you know what, Fogle -- it is not his house. He did not position those cameras. He was -- yes, of course, he
was --
PINSKY: He was trafficking this stuff.
AZARI: No. He was getting it from his friend. He was reaping the benefits of the fruits of his friend`s labor.
SLATEN: They were working together. They were working in concert.
AZARI: I do not think so.
SLATEN: This was a conspiracy.
AZARI: Where is the evidence of a conspiracy?
SLATEN: They were sharing these things, giggling about it. You know, whatever that they were doing to use those images.
AZARI: No. According to this lawsuit, Taylor was doing everything. It was at his house. He was setting up the cameras.
PINSKY: Why did he have kids at his house?
AZARI: Well, I mean -- OK. The fact that he is a pedophile, obviously he went to prison --
SLATEN: They were running a charity, Dr. Drew. They were running a charity to benefit children.
AZARI: Right. There is negligent super supervision.
PINSKY: Sara --
SLATEN: Fogle was involved in the charity too.
PINSKY: So, you are blaming the charity?
AZARI: No, I am not blaming the charity. I am just saying that Fogle was not in on this activity.
PINSKY: You are defending him exclusively.
AZARI: Exclusively.
PINSKY: All right. All right. You guys want to beat Sara up too? I am not inciting the violence. I am not Mr. Trump. The suit also alleges
that the conduct of Fogle and Taylor was, quote, "Extreme, outrageous and reckless." And, the Jane doe had questioned the suit. Jane Doe will
continue to suffer severe emotional distress and personal injury. And, Troy, that is what you are saying, right?
SLATEN: That is right. I mean, she is going to suffer severe emotional distress. And, just because Fogle was not the one that set up
the camera, or was not the one that set up the DVR to tape, it does not make him any less culpable with that.
PINSKY: I am going to feel good about Sara. She is fighting for the system, not for Jared Fogle. She is fighting for the system. Everyone
deserves a defense --
AZARI: Whatever makes you happy.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Now, he is currently seeking appeal of his 15-year sentence. His original plea deal with the government was for 12 years. So, he is
saying that his current sentence is, quote, "Excessive." And, Sara, of course, is nodding her head because she is the defense attorney. But, for
crying out loud, 14 victims, life course altered. 12 years is excessive for that, Troy?
SLATEN: Well, in a plea bargain in federal court, it is just a recommendation from the prosecutor. It is not like --
PINSKY: Are you defending him too?
SLATEN: Well, no. I am saying --
[19:50:00] PINSKY: It is not excessive?
SLATEN: The judge has the discretion to deviate from the agreement and that is exactly what she did here.
PINSKY: Vanessa, back to the court of what? Common sense?
BARNETT: Court of common sense.
PINSKY: Let us do it. Come on.
BARNETT: I think 15 years is pseudo. He should be put away for life.
SLATEN: Yes!
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
BARNETT: Because these children will be affected for life.
PINSKY: All right. Next up, I have the brother of the inmate who assaulted Jared. That is right, Jared was assaulted in prison recently, as
you heard Nancy saying a few minutes ago. And, I have the guy`s brother, who is going to tell me exactly what went down after this, after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Former pitchman, convicted pedophile, Jared Fogle has been ambushed in prison. He suffered a bloody nose, swollen face, scratches to
the neck. His attacker was a 60-year-old inmate named Steven Nigg. Steven`s brother Jimmy is on the phone with me. Jimmy tell me about what
your brother did and why he did it?
[19:55:05] JIMMY NIGG, BROTHER OF JARED FOGLE`S ATTACKER: Well, one of the reasons is because -- well, he does not like those type of people,
child molesters. But, the real reason is he still has money, this particular guy. And, he has been buying special privileges, like security
for instance.
He can hire other inmates to make sure nothing happens to him, nobody touches him. You know extra commissary. And, just the fact that he is a
child molester bothers him, my brother anyway, but then when you hire security and you think you can walk around the yard amongst the rest of the
people, that is what set him off that particular day.
PINSKY: And, Jimmy, when you say buy security, you mean other prisoners?
NIGG: Yes. You can buy -- They have done this back in the Capone days. You can buy protection. You can hire an inmate. You know, possibly
a weight lifter, whoever.
PINSKY: But, Jimmy, how did your brother get around that?
NIGG: They are actually kind of afraid of him. He, actually, the witness, which ended up being the body guard, we call it the body guard or
protection, he actually ran.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: So, he is scared of your brother?
NIGG: Yes.
PINSKY: But, Troy is giving me this nod -- this no-ing nods.
SLATEN: Yes, this is what happens. I mean, on the inside. I mean, if you are somebody that cannot protect yourself like Jared Fogle, you can
buy your way out. You can buy extra candy bars, extra soup, whatever -- Cigarettes. Whatever the other person wants, if you can provide that, you
can trade, protection. You can get drugs, cell phones, all the thing that a person might want.
PINSKY: Drugs and cell phones.
AZARI: Did Fogle not buy this guy anything? Is that why he is pissed off?
PINSKY: Oh.
SLATEN: No. He is mad that Fogle is getting to walk around with his chest out in the yard. He is this child molester and he gets to acts like
he is untouchable.
PINSKY: Or even just a regular guy able to mix with the regular citizens there in prison, so to speak.
SLATEN: There is a hierarchy in prison. And, the pedophiles are at the bottom.
PINSKY: Let me talk to this gentleman here. Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Dr. Drew, can this sort of prison justice end up curing Jared?
PINSKY: No, no, no.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: If he is raped thoroughly enough?
PINSKY: No. I am sorry. You may feel some sort of satisfaction with that, but it is only -- believe me, something horrible happened to Jared
long ago. And, I am not saying that to invoke any sympathy. I have zero sympathy for him nor should anyone, but you cannot beat this out of
somebody. You cannot rape it out of them. You cannot -- It is just --
AZARI: And, I am sorry, but inmates, no matter what they have done to earn their ticket to prison, they deserve to be kept safe. There has to be
safety on the prison grounds. And, in this case, it is a prison facility. It is a federal facility.
It is definitely not a Martha Stewart camp. But, nonetheless, it has to be safe. And, just the fact that he is classified with violent
offenders like this guy, like this gentleman`s brother, apparently committed some kind o f a robbery or something serious.
PINSKY: Jimmy, your brother has been in and out of prison a lot, right?
NIGG: Well, my brother, did his crimes when he was 21. That was a long time ago and he had three felonies. In this particular case, he did
commit no crime. What he did was my dad passed away. He was selling the stuff from the estate. What he sold was 200 riffles --
PINSKY: That is OK. That is OK.
NIGG: Yes.
PINSKY: Yes, sir.
BARNETT: If you cannot beat up a 60-year-old, that is Fogle`s fault.
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
PINSKY: A 60-year-old that scared the other prisoners, including the body guard. I am just saying. Yes, sir. Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I do agree with that. And, I actually agree that if he -- I do not think that he had a co-conspirator
recording and distributing films of children. I think that he may have purchased them. He is guilty of crimes, but we need to be sure that he is
accused and sentenced for the crimes that he committed.
PINSKY: So, you are just concerned this particular new case may be overstated, is that what you are saying?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. He is guilty of something. I do not think that he is --
PINSKY: Well, he is in prison for something.
AZARI: Right. Exactly. He was found guilty. He got a 15-year sentence, which I believe is a little bit excessive. But --
PINSKY: Vanessa, common sense court.
BARNETT: That is not excessive.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Thank you.
(LAUGHING)
BARNETT: That is all I can say. That is not excessive. These kids are damaged for life, for life.
SLATEN: And, the new case is just about money, Dr. Drew.
BARNETT: Right. Exactly.
SLATEN: It is just about whether these victims who have suffered and will suffer for the rest of their lives should have some money.
BARNETT: $150,000. That is nothing. He should be wanting to give that to them as an apology.
PINSKY: Let us put it this way. Hey, you guys. What is her name Erin --
BARNETT: Erin Andrews.
PINSKY: Erin Andrews got $60 million for, you know, somebody looking at her. But, these kids were actually exploited. It is disgusting. All
right, listen. What we are going to do is I am going to take these three and we are going to have an After Show on Facebook page.
You can join us there. We will keep this conversations going. You can DVR the show. As you know, we have changed time. We will continue to
review "Forensic Files" here. We think that is worthwhile. We would like to hear from you on Facebook.
See if you agree with that, then we will get some pretty interesting stuff here since these things have aired. A lot has gone down. And, I am
learning not to trust anybody by watching too many "Forensic Files." Thank you for watching. DVR us. Nancy Grace is up next.
[20:00:00] (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
END
