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Dr. Drew
Hulk Hogan Just Awarded Millions More in Sex Tape Case; Forensic Files Follow-Up: Affair, Money Were Motives for Murder. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired March 21, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:00] UNIDENTIFED MALE: So I think that still for quite some time to come will be with our department unfortunately.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: Hulk Hogan wanted $100 million.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: The video Gawker posted is not like a real celebrity sex tape. It`s not like Kim Kardashian.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: But the jury didn`t buy it.
UNIDENTIFED FEMALE: The jurors awarded Hulk Hogan $115 million on Friday.
UNIDENTIFED FEMALE: For airing a sex tape featuring Hogan and a friend`s wife.
DAVID HOUSTON, ATTORNEY FOR HULK HOGAN/TERRY BOLLEA: Mr. Bollea`s exceptionally happy. This is not only his victory today, but also anyone
else who`s been victimized by tabloid journalism.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: The victim`s husband is a homicide detective and he said the shooting was an accident. The bullet wound was on the left side of
Pilar`s head. There were problems in their marriage.
UNIDENTIFED FEMALE: It`s a picture of a woman sitting on a bed with a little nighty on.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: Pilar did everything she could to make her marriage work.
UNIDENTIFED FEMALE: To include you know the naughty lingerie.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: Ted stood to collect $470,000 if Pilar died accidentally.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: Will forensic solve this murder mystery?
DREW PINSKY, "DR. DREW" HOST: That`s right. We have breaking news, a jury just now awarded Hulk Hogan even more money, this over the sex tape that
Gawker had exposed. He had already won $115 million case. Watch this.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: Total damages to the plaintiff, $115 million.
HOUSTON: This is not only his victory today but also anyone else who`s been victimized by tabloid journalism.
NICK DENTON, GAWKER FOUNDER: We all knew that this -- the appeal`s court would need to resolve this case. We expect to win this case ultimately.
PINSKY: Hulk Hogan`s real name, Terry Bollea cried as the jury awarded him $55 million for economic injuries, $60 million for emotional distress, $25
million punitive damages. Grand total more than $140 million. Remember, he was asking for $100 million. They went well beyond that.
Joining me Emily Compagno, attorney and legal analyst. Lisa Bloom, civil rights lawyer at the Bloom Firm and legal analyst for Avvo.com. Segun
Oduolowu, entertainment journalist, and Wendy Walsh, clinical psychologist.
Lisa, do you think the jury got this one right?
LISA BLOOM, BLOOM FIRM CIVIL RIGHTS LAWYER: I definitely thought Hulk Hogan should win. We still have privacy rights in America and that covers
private sex behind closed doors without being video taped and having it be posted. But the number is insane. The number is up there in the
stratosphere. I think it`s way too high.
PINSKY: Listen, it -- Segun, you`re just -- your hands ...
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, ENTERTAINMENT JOURNALIST: I don`t think, one, he expected any semblance of privacy. You`re sleeping with another man`s wife in his
house. Like you`re a fleece bag ...
BLOOM: Yeah, but it`s still consenting adults. OK? And that doesn`t mean that you have the right to post the video.
ODUOLOWU: But you don`t know what cameras I have in my house.
PINSKY: Wait a minute.
ODUOLOWU: If I like to get freaky with it and have a camera in a book shelf. You stepped with my wife.
BLOOM: That`s not the way the law works that anybody gets to stare pituitously video tape somebody else and well, you should expected there
was a video. That`s not the way it works. You do have an expectation ...
ODUOLOWU: You`re sleeping with my wife in my house? Like ...
PINSKY: Wait a minute. It wasn`t like the -- I understand you`re commenting about his morality. It was Bubba the Love Sponge`s wife. He
asked him to do so. They had that kind of marriage. Hulk didn`t know about the tape. If they had it taped and use it in the privacy in their
own home, that would been bad enough. But then to give it to someone who then publishes it is what is at issue here, right?
EMILY COMPAGNO, ATTORNEY AND LEGAL ANALYST: Right. And I think regardless of this discussion, the issue is that the jury felt that way. The jury
returned this verdict that was way outside of what Terry asked for. So this shows that it plays to people`s emotions and the fact that they were
desensitized to those millions of amount.
ODUOLOWU: No, it shows ...
BLOOM: And the people loves celebrity.
ODUOLOWU: ... that the jury is dumb. The juries are comprised of people who are too stupid to get out of jury duty.
PINSKY: Wow.
ODUOLOWU: That was the jury is. That`s what they are.
PINSKY: Gawker`s founder said he expected they would lose this round. You may be surprised why. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DENTON: Key evidence and the most important witness in this case were withheld from the jury. I am confident we would have prevailed at trial if
we had been allowed to present the full case to the jury.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: He`s referring to a radio host called Bubba the Love Sponge Clam who took the fifth, did not testify. But I say that`s nonsense, guys.
It`s absolute nonsense. I think what nailed -- put a last nail in the coffin of this case was two things.
Well, I`m going to show you one of it. I`m going to show you one piece and I`m going to tell you the other part. One piece I`ve got right here. This
is the guy who wrote the story. He`s name is A.J. Daulerio. He actually shocked the jury when he testified they asked him in a deposition what sex
tape would you not publish. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFED MALE: Can you imagine a situation where a celebrity sex tape would not be newsworthy?
[19:05:00] A.J. DELAURIO, GUY WHO WROTE THE STORY: If they where a child.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: Under what age?
DELAURIO: Four.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: Do you think the footage shows that you`re being sarcastic.
DELAURIO: I absolutely do.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: Are you laughing there?
DELAURIO: Yes.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: You`re laughing?
DELAURIO: Correct, yeah.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: Do you think that`s a funny topic to joke about, child pornography?
DELAURIO: No, not at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Glib, disdainful and saying under oath the only sex tape he would not publish would be one with a child under the age of four. That`s it.
COMPAGNO: Yeah.
PINSKY: Then he also went out ahead him read some of his descriptions of what he said about the sex tape. It was disgusting. When you have him up
there saying the words himself that he wrote, I think that`s what got the jury so outraged.
And that`s where we got to push back on this nonsense. Don`t you think?
BLOOM: I think Gawker is out of their minds to go to trial in this case. I mean everybody said before trial that Hulk Hogan was going to win. I
said that many times. He did win. Of course he won because that was the only logical outcome of this case.
And so, for them to even go to trial with these ridiculous witnesses who said yeah, I`d put up any tape as long as it was a child over the age of
four good enough for me. Gawker was crazy or their lawyers were crazy or both.
ODUOLOWU: But they`re all sleaze bags. Why are we so -- look you lay down with dogs, you wake up with fleas. The fact that he`s sleeping with
another man`s wife ...
PINSKY: Oh, Segun. Stop it.
ODUOLOWU: ... I`m not letting that go.
PINSKY: You keep spinning on that issue. This is not moral behavior. I get that.
ODUOLOWU: But my thing is I don`t -- a jury awarded somebody who`s already well off more money than he even asked for. The whole thing is ludicrous
and absurd.
PINSKY: All right. Wendy, help me out here. Help me out. I think this issue was being published out there not so much about this guy`s individual
choices.
WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: I think this is a jury making a clear statement about public shame as an emotional injury and a very real authentic injury.
PINSKY: Yup.
BLOOM: Yeah.
WALSH: This is not a moral question. The morals are not there. We`re finally starting to clamp down on public shame, shaming individuals on the
internet, through tabloids et cetera and understanding that that`s a very real injury.
PINSKY: Toxic. It`s toxic. And Wendy, the fact that Erin Andrews and Hulk Hogan both referred to post traumatic stress disorder symptoms from
that public shaming, does that surprise you at all?
WALSH: It doesn`t surprise me one little bit. Look Dr. Drew, last August some right wing nut jobs did a Twitter war against me. And I`ll tell you,
it`s really hard to wake up every morning and look in your iPhone and see 100 people tell you awful things about yourself. So on the internet,
knowing that people are watching you having sex, watching you in your most personal intimate moment, that can be emotionally painful and damaging.
PINSKY: Damaging. And somebody should -- Segun, I hope to God nobody ...
ODUOLOWU: No, because I`m so mad at Wendy.
PINSKY: I know, you`re only pristine in your choices but even so ...
ODUOLOWU: No.
PINSKY: ... they can still put something up that is just totally inappropriate.
ODUOLOWU: Here is a man, Dr. Drew, that rolled around in his underwear like a greased pig for money. He`s worried about the shame of a sex tape
and shaming? This is not the same as Erin Andrews.
COMPAGNO: There are boundaries.
BLOOM: So Sebun, does a celebrity have no right of privacy then if he`s really raunchy and down and dirty?
ODUOLOWU: A celebrity -- not if you do this. Not if they do this. No9t if you do this.
BLOOM: Not if they do something you don`t agree with, then they can be exploited.
ODUOLOWU: Do you agree with what he did?
BLOOM: I agree that if it`s consenting adults, it`s not my business to judge that.
ODUOLOWU: Well, anything that happens at the dark comes to light eventually.
PINSKY: Separate issues. We`ve got a lot more to say here. Later on a police officer kills his own wife and still claims he didn`t do it. But
the evidence suggests otherwise. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[19:12:27] TERRY GENE BOLLEA/HULK HOGAN, PROFESSIONAL WRESTLER, ACTOR: My problem is, is this whole -- the videotape that you guys put out that lives
forever. It will be there forever on the internet.
DENTON: The story was true and interesting and we`d absolutely publish it again in a heartbeat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Breaking news, the jury says Hulk Hogan`s anguish over that leaked sex tape worth more than $140 million.
Back with Emily, Lisa, Segun and Wendy. Does this now, guys -- and Emily, does this put Gawker out of business, that`s if they`re just shut down?
COMPAGNO: They`re not shut down and they did a whole -- on Monday they spent -- their attorneys presenting their financials and they`re fine. But
I think that this really speaks to the fact that this is what juries look to these deep pockets.
So as you looked to this different verdicts and what they were, it is obvious that they like to dig deep into those deep pockets and give it to
the person who was the victim.
PINSKY: Well, they got -- you`ve got to make an organization like Gawker feel it or they`re not going to change their behavior, right? And by the
way, that -- I think we heard the attorney during one of this sort of press conferences or outside the courtroom commentary was given, he said, "Oh,
it`s going to send a chill down the spine of other publishers." I hope so. I hope you would think about stuff before you print it. It harms people
sometimes and there`s nothing anyone could -- previously nothing anyone could do about it.
Our viewers expressed outrage about the fact that Erin Andrews was criticized for seeking $75 million in her case. Then Hulk was given almost
twice that.
Is this -- oh here`s a great tweet. Mike tweeted "Erin Andrews got $55 million for invasion of privacy. Hulk Hogan got $115 million. Once again,
men get paid more than women for the same work."
BLOOM: Right. I`ve say yeah. This is very typical ...
PINSKY: That`s great for you.
BLOOM ... that Erin just gets like 55 cent on the dollar for what Hulk Hogan gets. I mean this is so typical.
And listen, I see this in the cases where I practice law, that women`s experiences are under valued. We all thought that Erin Andrews ...
PINSKY: Lisa.
BLOOM: ... was such a phenomenal verdict, but she doesn`t have any of the issues that Hulk Hogan has that Segun has been talking about. She was
innocently walking around Hulk Hogan`s ...
PINSKY: She wasn`t having sex.
BLOOM: ... right?
PINSKY: She wasn`t having sex.
BLOOM: She wasn`t doing anything that anybody could even possibly consider to be immoral.
PINSKY: And nobody -- but I`m telling you, I am telling you, it`s what they wrote. We don`t actually have that tape or looking for it. But they
had the authors read what they wrote about what was going on in the tape. And I`m telling you it was so ...
BLOOM: Yeah, seems disgusting.
PINSKY: ... it`s was despicable. I think how powerful that is that -- the jury gets to see ...
BLOOM: Yes.
PINSKY: ... the authors speak the word, the disgusting words.
BLOOM: And it`s so shameful. And I would add that even now they say, "We would do it again."
ODUOLOWU: But it was wrong.
BLOOM: And that`s the kind of thing that gets you the big punitive damages ...
ODUOLOWU: But Lisa, what did they ...
BLOOM: ... because the attorney gets to argue and the punitive damage is paid. They don`t get it. Hit them hard so they do get it.
[19:15:02] ODUOLOWU: What did they do, that was so wrong? What did Gawker ...
PINSKY: Segun, I hope to help.
ODUOLOWU: No, no, no, no.
PINSKY: And I`m sorry I was hoping you didn`t have to...
ODUOLOWU: Hold on a second everyone. I`m -- let`s say I`m with you with a guy that surreptitiously taped him without his knowing and then gave the
tape to Gawker. Gawker has a piece of news, you don`t want them to run with it ...
BLOOM: No, it`s not news.
ODUOLOWU: ... because TMZ runs with a whole bunch of stuff that we`re like, "What did they get this?`` A knock out in an elevator. "Where did
they get this?" What did Gawker do that was so wrong?
BLOOM: They violated the privacy.
COMPAGNO: It`s parts between the description and the actual video. So there is a distinction between what they wrote and as ustulations sounded
verbally that was the actual posting of the video that ...
PINSKY: That they`re in trouble.
COMPAGNO: Correct. So it wasn`t the description. And then in terms of Erin Andrews right there, she there, was filing suit against, A, her
stalker and B, the Marriott franchise for having -- for allowing -- for not reporting safety situation. Here it was Gawker, a publication. So these
are two different issues and of course ...
PINSKY: And isn`t it sort of an issue of expectation. I mean, Segun brings up the issue of a tape from an elevator which is kind of a public
space versus the private citizen`s home and the privacy of your hotel rooms. There are privacy issues that ...
BLOOM: Right, where you have a reasonable expectation of privacy.
ODUOLOWU: In another man`s house?
BLOOM: In a bedroom ...
ODUOLOWU: In another man`s bedroom.
BLOOM: Yes. In a house ...
ODUOLOWU: With another man`s wife.
BLOOM: Yes.
ODUOLOWU: You expect privacy?
BLOOM: Yes.
ODUOLOWU: What if someone walked in? So what if someone walked in, it`s like stumbles into the party and like, "Oh, my God, oh, your having sex
there, what do I do when they take a picture."
BLOOM: OK. It wasn`t a party. It wasn`t party.
ODUOLOWU: What was it?
BLOOM: It was a private home where three consenting adults were doing something that maybe ...
ODUOLOWU: No, I think only two, I don`t think ...
BLOOM: ... you don`t agree with. No, the third one was consenting to it.
ODUOLOWU: So the other guy is just sitting down there going, "I wonder what they`re doing up here. Why do they making so much noise for?`` He
doesn`t expect privacy.
BLOOM: You know, I know this is hard for you to believe but some people make sexual choices that might be different from yours.
PINSKY: Let me get Wendy. Hang on.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: And they still have legal rights.
PINSKY: Hep, hep, hep. Wendy, help me out here. We`re going down of rabbit hole and I don`t necessarily want to go down. Please.
WALSH: I think the important thing here is that the jury is reaching out and they are hitting on these big corporations that do have the deep
pockets for a reason, because they think we`re all starting to have some sense that when you have an emotional injury, Dr. Drew, you can have
physiological symptoms, you can have mental health issues ...
PINSKY: Yeah.
WALSH: ... issues that can last a very long time.
PINSKY: In a weird way, in a weird way, Wendy, I wonder if this really is all part of this weird movement that sort of in a way Donald Trump
represents or the people that go to his events. Well, no, I think people are sort of seeing themselves as standing up to bullies these days. And
they feel ...
WALSH: Yes.
PINSKY: ... bullied by the press, they feel ...
WALSH: They`re protesting the status quo.
PINSKY: ... bullied by political correctness, bullied by people who have been running amok for a long time under the umbrella of the First
Amendment, which was never designed to harm people.
WALSH: Exactly. You know what, I`m worried about, Dr. Drew, is the amount of people who have been given drone licenses. Because it`s amazing how
many drones -- I`ve even seen them hover outside my upper floor windows.
PINSKY: We`ve now going to -- it was a new rabbit hole. We`re going to the drone now.
WALSH: We`re going into a whole new rabbit hole.
PINSKY: I don`t want to know why those drones were outside your window. That is -- would you may $100 million suit coming your way. You get an
opportunity soon.
WALSH: Wendy, you call me if you have a problem.
PINSKY: Lisa`s available.
BLOOM: I will.
WALSH: You can call me.
ODUOLOWU: Wait, are we seriously talking about the emotional injury that Hulk Hogan, who`s lived his life in the public. Who`s by the way had said
some pretty ugly and horrible things in the public about his family ...
BLOOM: Right.
ODUOLOWU: No, as Terry, he`s been on, he`d said some pretty horrible stuff about the people his daughter has dated. He`s put his family on reality
T.V. Please don`t tell me that his expectation of privacy when he is doing something that we all morally think is wrong and then he gets busted for
it. I have no problem with what Gawker did. You give me the smoking gun and I put the smoking gun out there for the world to see ...
PINSKY: Oh, my God.
ODUOLOWU: ... I`m the bad guy.
BLOOM: He`s not going to change his mind.
COMPAGNO: And that all or nothing mentality is what contributes to that public shaming. So when we look at a figure like that and say, "Oh, well,
he acted in his capacity, he said this bad thing, then he is all bad and he deserves everything that`s coming to him.
PINSKY: Yeah.
COMPAGNO: That`s that kind of mob mentality ...
ODUOLOWU: Yes. This is the individuals ...
PINSKY: Yes.
ODUOLOWU: This is just the individuals, I`m saying that. The mob mentality is saying, "I`ve been bullied by a whole bunch of people and now
I get to strike back punitively with money." First of all, some people need to be shamed. Some people need to be told, "Hey, you know what,
you`re doing the wrong thing. You`re a little fatty fat, fat. Go on a diet." There are some things ...
BLOOM: Yeah.
ODUOLOWU: ... that you need to say to people because sometimes the kid grow up to be treat everyone, where everyone gets a trophy and Timmy is
perfect ...
PINSKY: Wendy, get in here.
ODUOLOWU: ... (inaudible), it`s terrible.
PINSKY: Wendy, help me out.
ODUOLOWU: Sometimes you need to know what life is going to give you and it`s harsh.
WARSH: Segun, Segun, are you the kind of man who could say it`s not possible to rape a prostitute?
ODUOLOWU: I`m not -- OK, first of all, that is a horrible question because that`s not what I`m talking about. You`re talking about violating a crime,
I`m talking about shame.
WALSH: You`re saying -- well, because you might not agree with her morals, then therefore she deserves no protection from us.
ODUOLOWU: That has nothing -- no, no, no. Listen, that`s -- first of all ...
PINSKY: Let me just say.
ODUOLOWU: ... don`t ever -- don`t do that. That`s not great. That`s not a good example, a horrible example. First of all ...
PINSKY: Let me just say
ODUOLOWU: ... to do it to a man.
PINSKY: No, no. Segun, I kind of got your back on that particular example. But I will say that just factually, shame is not a good way to
shape behavior. I`m not saying we haven`t under done shame. I know what you`re talking about. But shame -- if somebody is already profoundly
shamed, you`re not going to -- it`s not going to affect their sense of morality. It`s not going to affect their -- I mean, you can shape behavior
in the margins with shame, but you can`t really change who`s somebody is with shame.
[19:20:03] And you`ll usually makes things worse. We got more.
And later, a woman shoots herself in the head, but her husband`s in jail for murder. We`ll show you why that happened.
Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DENTON: The piece had value, that it was true. It was honestly, that the story honestly told and it was interesting to millions of people.
BOLLEA: I just have never been able to get my step back or feel like myself, because, you know, even trying to get my guard back up has been
this over riding, haunting of this sex tape that Gawker put out there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Posting a celebrity sex tape just got cost Gawker more than $140 million.
[19:25:00] So will the Hulk Hogan verdict change the way gossip gets reported?
Back with Emily, Lisa, Segun and Wendy. Wendy, now, Lisa, families who lost loved ones get far less in wrongful death suits. Is that, you know,
we`re going to see those go up or is there an issue here in the law?
COMPAGNO: Right. That`s very, very disturbing and that`s -- but that`s not new. So yes, less than $6 million for Eric Garner`s family and he was
shot and killed, right?
PINSKY: And then we have O.J. Simpson`s civil case, Brown and Goldman families worth $33.5 million.
BLOOM: So the reasoning ...
PINSKY: That`s right.
BLOOM: So is the reasoning -- I don`t agree with that but the reasoning is, is that the family of the deceased person gets a smaller number because
it`s for the comfort, care and companionship. If you are still living and you suffer an injury, you could project out for the rest of your life, 20
years, 30 years, 40 years, all of the damages so the numbers are bigger. Should it be worse if somebody dies? Absolutely. But that`s just the way
our system works.
ODUOLOWU: So Hulk Hogan`s self-esteem is worth $140 million? But he was only asking for 100. We can put a price on your pride?
PINSKY: Wendy, I think people are confusing Hulk`s behavior with his friend`s wife which was again consensual ...
WALSH: Yeah.
PINSKY: ... unhealthy, not a great idea, ended up badly for that couple. And the fact that his privacy was intruded upon and that these people at
Gawker felt within their privilege to not just air the tape but describe the tape in the most despicable way, that they can say whatever they want,
wherever they want, whenever they want regardless of the consequence on the individual.
WALSH: Right. The moral question we need to table and put that aside because that`s not what this trial was about. This trial was about his
public shaming. And you heard him just say on the stand that he kept trying to get his guard back up, get his guard back up.
We all have these protective ego defenses, if you will. We have public personalities that enable us to go out into the world and take the little
dings and pings that happened in the run of the day. But he was unable. He was actually injured to the point that he couldn`t work. He couldn`t do
things because of the anxiety and depression he suffered. And this is a real injury.
PINSKY: Let me just go down the panel here. Emily, if somebody threw out a sex tape of you, would you want compensation for that?
COMPAGNO: I think I would want punitive damages. I wanted to say that I would want compensation for the tape itself. But, yes, I`m sure that I
would seek damages for the obvious emotional injury I will suffer.
PINSKY: Lisa.
BLOOM: Yeah, of course, absolutely.
PINSKY: OK.
BLOOM: That would be my right.
PINSKY: Segun.
BLOOM: It will be massive -- it will be a massive ...
PINSKY: Well, it wouldn`t have been before this case.
BLOOM: ...but, no, that`s not true.
PINSKY: Listen, I`m telling you something ...
BLOOM: This is not new law. The right of privacy has been around for 100 years.
PINSKY: But Lisa, people have not been taking that stuff to court, because they haven`t felt as though, they were likely to get the attention of the
jury or even have their legal fees paid for.
BLOOM: So that`s why I think this number is inflated because he`s a celebrity and people loves celebrity.
PINSKY: I`m just saying ...
BLOOM: Ordinary person wouldn`t get a number like this.
PINSKY: ... this is a turn-around. Segun ...
ODUOLOWU: Yeah.
PINKSY: ... if tape`s out there -- will you perfectly, it was just happen to be some (inaudible) on the tape or you were behaving like a prince.
ODUOLOWU: If we`re talking about the Erin Andrews where I`m in the a hotel room ...
PINSKY: No. We`re talking about in your house.
ODUOLOWU: In my own house? If you videotape me in my own house, yes, I`ll get money for it. If you videotape me in your own house ...
PINSKY: Yeah.
ODUOLOWU: ... we shouldn`t be having sex in your house.
PINSKY: Well, let`s say you did. Let`s say you did and it was ...
ODUOLOWU: With your wife? With someone`s else wife?
PINSKY: No, no. With your wife and they just happened around some tape because they forgot to tell you that tape is going and, "Oops I found this
tape, hmm, I wonder id Gawker like this." Segun, surely has no problem with this, because he only has a problem when people behave immorally.
(Inaudible).
ODUOLOWU: If I was having sex with my fiance and they videotape me in someone else`s home, yeah, we`re going to get paid for that.
PINSKY: Thank you. That`s it.
ODUOLOWU: Yeah, my fiance.
PINSKY: Next up, "Forensic Files" update the case of a cheating police officer who murders his wife. We have insiders here with us to explain.
Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pilar MacArthur is killed, shot in the head.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She said don`t worry it`s not loaded and then it went off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her husband Ted, a homicide detective, says he watched the accidental shooting. But evidence suggests otherwise. Pilar was shot
on the left side of the head. She was right-handed.
VINCENT DIMAIO, CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER: The tendons are pulled and you cannot pull the trigger.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police discovered her husband had been sleeping with the reporter from the Miami Herald.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a picture of a woman sitting on a bed with a little nighty on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And Ted stood to benefit from his wife`s death, a $470,000 life insurance policy. Ted MacArthur was convicted of first
degree murder and sentenced to life in prison. To this day he claims he`s innocent.
TED MACARTHUR, PILAR MACARTHUR`S HUSBAND: I did absolutely nothing wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That murder was featured on "Forensic Files." We are speaking to some of the people who helped put Ted MacArthur in prison. Back with
Emily, Lisa, and Segun. Joining me, Donald Slovonic, he was the lead detective on this case.
But Donald, Ted MacArthur was a officer -- police officer when you interrogated him. How did he react to your initial questioning?
DONALD SLOVONIC, LEAD DETECTIVE: Well, initially when we got involved in it, he called and said that his wife had accidentally shot herself. So, of
course we respond to his residence there and subsequent to that, I took him to the police station to interview him and, you know, police officers
aren`t very accustomed to being interviewed.
He was a little bit hesitant to talk, but, you know, all through the course of about a 40-minute interview and then I took a formal statement, you
know, I was able to get the information that I needed from him.
PINSKY: Did you have any sense that there was something funny going on from the beginning?
SLOVONIC: Well, the fact that she was a corrections officer trained in firearms and that she was "playing with a gun", certainly initially, you
know, you don`t know at the time. However, it was a little bit suspicious, of course.
PINSKY: Now, during the trial, this guy, the husband, the police officer spoke out to the media. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MACARTHUR: I faced the death penalty in this case. I was offered a plea early on in this case. I wouldn`t plea to making an illegal left turn in
connection with this case. I did absolutely nothing wrong. There are enough real homicides in Dade County that occur on a regular basis than to
try to take an accidental death for whatever the reasons are and to turn it around and to do this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Donald, did you ever speak to him about a mistress? I think I heard that he was maybe planning to leave his wife is that accurate?
SLOVONIC: We never got to that point. However, in the initial interview I did confront him with the information about having a girlfriend and he look
then he says "I`m not going to talk about that". I go, "yes, you are".
And as far as, I guess, I was looking at that tape, he was never offered a plea and we waived the death penalty early on there was never an idea that
he was going to pay the death penalty.
PINSKY: Lisa, your nodding, what do you think?
LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY: Oh, it`s just lie after lie from this guy.
PINSKY: Is it?
BLOOM: And it`s always the husband, right? So, if a wife dies under suspicious circumstances, the guy has a mistress and he`s just upped the
life insurance. It`s only a matter of time before the forensics are going to show that the husband did.
I mean, who lies in bed -- and I`m not making lie, that this is a horrible story. My heart goes out to this poor woman and her family. But who lies
in bed with a gun at their temple playing with the gun and then pulls the trigger. That just doesn`t make any sense.
PINSKY: And there was water pistol involve, did you -- what was that all about? It was at some sort of diversion of this guy that was creating?
EMILY COMPAGNO, ATTORNEY: Right. And his story was that he was waking her up by a water pistol and had what gun to the back ...
PINSKY: Like she`s a cat or a kitten or something.
COMPAGNO: Exactly. But meanwhile, I love that a week prior he had accidentally knocked the T.V. into that bathtub.
BLOOM: Yes.
PINSKY: Did you guys see that?
COMPAGNO: I mean, yes exactly like you`re saying it`s the ...
PINSKY: Well, now he not only had he accidentally knocked the T.V. into the bathtub. He set up the bath, put her in the bed, put the T.V. up and
then accidentally knocked it in.
BLOOM: She kicked it back with her foot, thank God.
PINSKY: Yeah.
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, ENTERTAINMENT JOURNALIST: This sounds -- he sounds guilty. He looks guilty. The gun powder residue that wasn`t on her hand but she
was holding the gun. The fact that there was no splatter from blood in that back on her hand. Her hands were pretty much clean.
PINSKY: No fingerprints.
ODUOLOWU: No fingerprints on the gun. So, what bothers me is how dumb of a cop is this? Like, he`s a cop.
PINSKY: Well, that`s the question.
ODUOLOWU: Why you can`t frame someone better than that?
COMPAGNO: Arrogant.
PINSKY: Was an arrogance because he was a detective, he thought he knew just enough to get away with it. Do you think?
ODUOLOWU: Well, he had to be because this doesn`t make any sense. Like the fingerprints? Like what were you thinking? The gun powder residue
like I`ve seen Beverly Hills Cop. I`ve seen cop movies, gun powder residue is a big deal.
PINSKY: Donald, as the case unfolded, did you get a sense why he would have been so sloppy? Or was it, again, there was so many issues from
forensic standpoint. Why didn`t he do a better job frankly if he knew so much as an investigator?
SLOVONIC: Very good question and unfortunately he wasn`t as good as he thought he was.
(OFF-MIC)
SLOVONIC: I`m sorry.
BLOOM: And he wasn`t as good as Donald was.
SLOVONIC: Well, thank you. It`s like a doctor saying, it`s OK, I know more about you than health and I can smoke and be OK. It`s like MacArthur
saying, listen who what I said and don`t ever question anything that I tell you, because if you do, the case falls apart. And like frankly that`s what
happened.
BLOOM: Detective, did you think he was arrogant when you were interviewing him?
SLOVONIC: Arrogant, but not uncooperative. It was, you know, cops aren`t really accustomed to being interviewed. And when I had him in the police
station talking to him like, yeah, he was uncomfortable.
BLOOM: Yeah, I mean the great thing though is that you were able to nail him down to a very specific story, right? And so he`s stuck with that as
he goes through the trial. He can`t waiver from it and ultimately that was used against him, wasn`t it?
SLOVONIC: That`s exactly the case. We put the framework of the case that morning with him filling in the gaps, because obviously we knew what time
he called 911. We knew what time the officers arrived on the scene. And from that point we were, you know, totally in control. What he did, he
filled in what happened prior to him calling 911, and that was the framework of the case in terms of the forensics in terms of the blood
evidence et cetera.
PINSKY: All right, next up, I`ve got the medical examiner from this case. He`s going to show us what he discovered during the trial that lead to
further damning evidence against, there it is, against this former officer.
Back, after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRICILLA: County police and fire, do you have an emergency?
TED MACARTHUR: Yes, I need rescue, 2145 Northeast 124 Street. My wife (inaudible) around with a gun and just shot herself.
PRICILLA: Is it a house or an apartment?
MACARTHUR: This is Sgt. MacArthur from Homicide.
PRICILLA: OK. Sgt. MacArthur, this is Pricilla. Where was she shot?
MACARTHUR: In the head. Please hurry up.
PRICILLA: OK. They`re on their way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That was Ted McArthur calling 911 claiming his wife had accidentally shot herself in the head. She was a corrections officer, she
was trained in firearms. We are talking about a forensic file episode and breaking it down with some of the principals in this story.
It was later determined that he shot her in attempt to collect hundreds of thousands of dollars from a life insurance policy and to continue an
affair, we assumed, with this blond lady whose picture we keep seeing over and over again.
Back with Emily, Lisa, Segun, Donald Slovonic, who lead Detective on the case, and joining us by phone, Vincent Dimaio, who`s the medical examiner
at the time.
Vincent, how did you determine that it was impossible for her to have shot herself?
DIMAIO: Because of the muzzle imprint of the gun. The detective had described his wife as picking up a gun from under the beds, just sweeping
it towards her forehead and pulling the trigger.
The only thing is that when you look at the imprint, the gun would have had to have been upside down and angled in such a way that the tendons of your
hand would not be functional and you couldn`t pull the trigger.
PINSKY: Also as I recall the coagulation and weight, the amount of blood on the bed and the coagulation status of the blood did not coincide with
what he reported in terms of getting her off the bed and doing CPR on the ground. Is that accurate?
DIMAIO: Yes, that`s accurate. The blood had already started to dry and the serum was leaking away from the red blood cells at the time, because
you could see it on photographs taken of the bed at the time the police responded.
PINKSY: And Donald, did you experience any push back from your peers and fellow officers when they began sort of hearing you go after one of their
own?
SLOVONIC: I heard nothing. There was, you know, there were people even today that will say that he didn`t do it. However, during the active phase
of the investigation, no, we simply went where the leads took us. And if they were talking, I wasn`t listening.
PINSKY: And here`s what Ted said on the stand. He was telling the jury his version of what he say is and still to this day says happened that
night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MACARTHUR: I remember saying, screaming to her the gun was loaded. And she was smiling at me and she said, "No, it`s not."
And at that point, my feelings are that the gun was coming away from her head and it discharged.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Emily, you had real concerns about this?
COMPAGNO: Well, it just felt like the sloppy aspects of this homicide detective and that he was desperate like it smacks of desperation. He was
draining his bank account, he was spending it on this elicit affair he was having.
This was a guy who was absolutely desperate. And so, in that staging of this suicide or of an accident rather, he was super sloppy.
PINSKY: So, it`s just, I want to get with this other girl, I`ve been with, I want to get rid of my wife, I want to get this money out of here. It`s
just sort of an impulsive thing. Was he spiraling out of control, is that what you mean?
COMAPGNO: Well, he probably was because the team indicated that for quite some time, he was in financial ruin. He was balancing these two women. He
was saying, we`re going to purchase this house, we have this down payment on this car. He was making all of these promises over extending himself.
Or really he couldn`t keep up with that.
So, I think the downward spiral, yes it`s happening over months. And remember, he tried to kill her five days prior to the staged accident.
So, he was clearly looking for this hard way out. And irony here is we were just discussing that someone`s public shame was valued at 140 million.
His wife`s life was valued at $420,000. That`s what he was willing to kill her for. I mean ...
ODUOLOWU: Well, I feel that, I mean, just to play that was advocate, there is no possible way that anybody feels that she couldn`t have been
depressed. That she found out he was cheating that she had gain weight because they mentioned that she had been trying to lose the weight that her
family spoke about.
PINSKY: Yes, he doesn`t -- he didn`t say that she was committing suicide. He said she was goofing around that they used to good that would water
pistol or something?
BLOOM: So, you`re saying you think it was intentional?
ODUOLOWU: No. What I`m saying is we are hard line saying that this man is guilty. He did this.
BLOOM: That`s because that`s what the forensics show.
ODUOLOWU: Again, but think about this. A cop of many years was this sloppy like what -- we`re saying that he was pushed through by desperation.
As devil`s -- I`m just saying, can a cop who does this for a living be that sloppy that this was the best he could come up with?
BLOOM: The cops are sloppy all of the time. I mean, we see videos of cops planting evidence and shooting people on the back and then lying about it
afterwards. Of course, this is a minority. We have a lot of great cops like the homicide detective who`s with us today who cracked the case and
kudos for him.
But, listen, cops are like anybody else, there`s good ones, there`s bad ones, there`s smart ones, there`s dumb one, this guy obviously was not
nearly as smart as he thought he was.
ODUOLOWU: I just like I said, he`s a cop. And, it wasn`t my love for cops, but I`m just saying it feels -- it feels a little too incredulous.
PINSKY: Let`s hear from the detective who was actually there. Donald, what do you say to that?
SLOVONIC: In terms of what? The?
PINSKY: Well, that it seems almost unbelievable that somebody who himself is a detective or, you know, at least knowledgeable on this matters would
be so sloppy, unless he was, I don`t know, drinking or something that -- or manic or something that really would contribute to the sloppiness.
SLOVONIC: Well, when you try to plan something, it never goes away you plan it. And when he quite frankly, when he shot her, I think he did
become desperate. Because when I got there, he was more or less in control. And when we talked about it, he was almost lecturing me on what
happened.
And I wasn`t buying it, of course. But, I was listening because early on in any investigation, you do more listening than talking. And I just let
him talk.
PINSKY: And right away, you weren`t buying it?
SLOVONIC: Well, right away, there was some flags that were flying up. And, you know, suspicion isn`t the reason to arrest somebody. It`s a
reason that don`t further and obviously, that`s what we did.
PINSKY: And the flags were the things we`ve discussed. Now, the evidence was she was shot in the left side of head, right handed, no finger prints
on the gun.
As we said, the blood had coagulated by the time the paramedics arrived. Meaning, he has waited to call 911. And there was an excessive weight of
blood on the bed, meaning if she bled out on bed before she got to the floor where he illegibly initiated CPR immediately. Donald, were those the
only red flags or were there more?
SLOVONIC: No, no. Keep, again when he told me what happened, his time frame was less than two or three minutes before he called police. Now,
when we got there and obviously we started looking at the, again the blood evidence, we`re not the expert. But it did seem somewhat longer than the
time frame he had given. Then keep in mind, he gave as a time frame. Because I asked him, how long did you do this and how long did do that?
And when? Again we don`t know when he called 911.
PINSKY: Let me ask, how did you find about the television incident where you legibly set a T.V. up and oops, knocked it into the bathtub with her?
SLOVONIC: One of Pilar`s co-workers remembered everything in the story. And that`s how it came into play. And it was -- verified because we saw
the T.V. And it made sense, because she was so shaken by when she went into worst she told her friend what had happened.
PINSKY: And, did you bring it up with him?
SLOVONIC: No, because that was -- after the interview. And after that first interview, he wasn`t in a position to talk to me anymore. He didn`t
want to talk to me.
ODUOLOWU: Yeah. But that`s paying now. But I mean and pardon me, detective but it seems like that story helped paint this picture of that
...
SLOVONIC: After, though.
ODUOLOWU: But it still -- but I mean from what we are using it now to condemn this man. And say, well he tried to kill her once before. We
weren`t there. And we`re only going by what a friend who just lost her friend that to this man is saying about this guy.
BLOOM: But Pilar is dead. She`s not here to speak for herself. And I think she should have a voice in the courtroom. And if she told her friend
though and a friend remembered it. Not only it`s appropriate to tell the detective. But detective, I`m curious, did it come into trial or was that
exclude because it`s her hearsay?
SLOVONIC: I believe, again I`m going back to the trial and as I recall there was a hearsay exception he that didn`t commit.
BLOOM: And that`s great and a lot of states now have a hearsay exception for if something is decease and they say something like this about somebody
whose accuse to trying it does come in.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: I think that`s its very important -- in domestic violence cases.
ODUOLOWU: But there`s a way around it. But that seems a little to ...
PINSKY: All right, we`re going to leave it. Thank you, detective. Thank you also to medical examiner. Thank you panel.
We`ll be back, with something happened to me today that I got to get up my chess.
Back, after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: All right. So, I want to share a story with you that happened this morning to me about 5:10 a.m. My phone started buzzing and friends on
mine came on my text message. Fred saying hey, man, you have been hacked.
So, I got up blurry eyed went to the computer and log and behold of e- mails, hundreds of e-mails, maybe thousands were being sent out to all my contacts saying that I was stuck in Cyprus and I needed some extra dough to
get back and I thought, oh this is hysterical. No one is going to believe this. Some people almost sent money of this jerks. Please everybody,
understand what a hack and phishing is all about?
Lisa, I thought everyone knew how that woks on.
BLOOM: I got one of those emails.
PINSKY: From me right.
BLOOM: Welcome back from the Eastern Mediterranean.
PINSKY: Thank you.
BLOOM: I hope you had a nice trip. But no, I`m not wiring money to anyone when I get this standard email that we have all gotten so many times. I
ask everything please send money.
PINSKY: They used my wife`s name and put my name with Drew Pinsky M.D. at the end of it. I think that kind of put people off balance in off, they
started sort of they went back again say, hey, anything I could do? That`s it.
BLOOM: Doesn`t that a little scary for you that they put your wife`s name in the email?
PINSKY: Look that was scary. Then they got into my Facebook and they shut down my Twitter. And, and the put they -- everybody put two-step
verification on your email, if you have -- G-Mail particularly because if you have a verification code sent to their phone. Then the verification
phone codes into their phone.
BLOOM: Oh, boy.
PINSKY: So, I couldn`t get at my account. I couldn`t change the password and for all day, until I got through the Google. And by though they did a
fantastic job of helping me out. They were continuing to send out horrible e-mails. I changed my passwords on my other accounts. They got into those
repeatedly every time I change.
BLOOM: Is that real violation, right?
PINSKY: It was scary as hell.
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: What about this hackers feeling like, the hackers feel like they have been bullied Dr. Drew and this is their way of fighting back.
PINSKY: Hey, I`m telling you on television, watch out for these idiots. These people are a-holes. And they, no I`m not kidding. This is not OK.
DIMAIO: As irrational as it sounds to us, like, oh, that`s crazy of course you what to be in hackers. My last day on the job as a federal attorney,
after all the training we went through about phishing and hacking, I`d clicked on the last puppy that I thought my friend really. And, I was that
guy. And I clicked on it went and which my federal e-mail account. It was from my G-Mail.
I thought it was a person we were recruiting et cetera. I click on it. Oh, my gosh. You have been, you know, I mean it was horrible. And it was
a training exercise. And I was the bad guy. So, I left in shame.
(CROSSTALK)
DIMAIO: It went to everyone. But, then I got hacked. And I was part of OPMs, you know, multimillion amount of personal that got hacked. So mine
was at security, so thanks ...
PINSKY: Oh, I don`t think they got that part. But they did get to my ...
ODUOLOWU: I`ve been hacked before. I mean
PINSKY: This was -- beginning and by the way ...
BLOOM: But they didn`t get into your email.
ODUOLOWU: But here is everyone that bring into your bank account.
PINSKY: No, they didn`t get past the address. But I felt loved by people. However I now counted 160 texts, 20 phone calls, 10 Facebook posts, thank
you, Matt, my Stage Manager ...
BLOOM: And how much money was wired to you?
PINSKY: ... who sent me his text about his text about his concerns about me about 6:30 a.m. I`m not slept in closing in 9:40, 36 hours. So
everybody who cares with you before I appreciate their concern. But everyone, know -- what a hack is and don`t click through on it, just -- you
should see it like that. DVR and you can watch us anytime.
Thank you all for watching. Just a reminder, "NANCY GRACE" is up next.
END
