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Dr. Drew

School Yard Fight Ends in Murder; Latest on Tom Fallis Trial; North Carolina LGBT Restriction Law; After School Fight Leads to Murder. Aired 7- 8p ET

Aired March 29, 2016 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

1[19:00:00] DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, an after school cat fight ends in murder. Nine teens arrested after this video went viral.

Plus, using a public bathroom for some in North Carolina may be illegal. And now businesses may boycott the state. Let`s get started.

(MUSIC)

Tom Fallis, he is former corrections officer, he`s on trial for the murder of his wife. The defense says she killed herself, new developments in

court today. We will have a live update shortly. But first, I want you to watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New Year`s Eve, 2012. Tom and his wife Ashley throw a party at their house. Here`s the video.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So sweet.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After the party ends ...

TOM FALLIS, FRM CORRECTIONS OFFICER: My wife just shot herself in the head. Please help me. Please help me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tom says he and his wife had an argument.

FALLIS: She came in, she`s like: "Well if I`m going to get high I`m going to get high." And I said, "Don`t listen to your (explicit) mom, you don`t

need to get high. Don`t get high because of your (explicit) mom."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He claims Ashley grabbed a gun from the closet and shot herself. Police ruled her death a suicide but Ashley`s mother was

never convinced. She says police altered witness statements to cover for Tom who was a corrections officer at the time. Now Tom is on trial for

murder and the jury is seeing and hearing everything.

DETECTIVE: That wound on the back of her head isn`t where she could do it herself, Tom. It is not ...

FALLIS: Oh bull (explicit), bull (explicit), (explicit).

DETECTIVE: It is not.

FALLIS: Bull (explicit).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The 911 call.

FALLIS: Ashley no. Ashley no. Ashley no.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Graphic photos and damning testimony.

NICK GLOVER, FALLIS` NEIGHBOR: He proceed to say I shot my wife.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Joining me, I have Samantha Schacher, host of "Pop Trigger" on Hulu; Sara Azari, Criminal Defense Attorney; Troy Slaten, also a Criminal

Defense Attorney.

Now Ashley`s psychiatrist, took the stand yesterday, revealed he had been treating Ashley for "panic attacks" and "ADD" but he said she did not to

him seems suicidal or actually depressed even. Here he is now on the stand.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASHLEY FALLIS` PSYCHIATRIST: She denied being suicidal, she denied ever attempting suicide. She denied thinking about suicide and she denied

having any self-injuries behaviors.

DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You don`t know sitting here that she actually had access to hundreds of pills.

ASHLEY FALLIS` PSYCHIATRIST: No.

DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And you don`t know that she suffered a miscarriage?

ASHLEY FALLIS` PSYCHIATRIST: I did not know that.

DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The day of her death?

ASHLEY FALLIS` PSYCHIATRIST: No, I did not know that.

DEFENSE ATTORNEY: People at the hospital saw Ashley as a threat to them. That she left the hospital that she got fired from.

ASHLEY FALLIS` PSYCHIATRIST: I learned that after this all happened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: There`s the bombshell. Sam tonight we`ve got a woman who is hoarding medication. She was threatening to her fellow employees, she had

a miscarriage the day that she died and her psychiatrist knew none of this. I`m not saying there`s anything wrong with her psychiatrist but she was

lying and BSing the psychiatrist for sure.

And just a miscarriage on that day puts this thing in a whole different light for me.

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, "POP TRIGGER" HOST: I understand that Dr. Drew and I know a lot of you are convinced that he is innocent. And when I watch

those videos of him crying ...

PINSKY: And now we know Sam is convinced ...

SCHACHER: So here`s the thing, who`s advocating for her? Because if he didn`t murder her, I`m sorry, justice needs to be done. Things do not add

up. The fact that the neighbor overheard him confess as well, as the police officer, as well as their 6-year-old child said, "I saw daddy get

the gun ready, I saw daddy shoot mommy."

That`s damning, damning ...

PINSKY: But let me -- if the controller would help me out here. Can you put out the specific quotes for me that the 6-year-old is quoted as having

said? And then I also -- here it is, the 6-year-old daughter allegedly told the police that she "Saw daddy getting the gun ready" and "saw daddy

shoot mommy." That is what Sam is talking about.

Now as it pertains to the neighbor, there is some interrogation on the stand. If you guys can bring that forward for us, I`d appreciate it, I

know I`m screwing up in there. Here is what Tom, the neighbor, right? He told the detective about the wife`s -- oh, no, I`m sorry, this is what the

husband, is that right? Tom, the husband? Help me guys, told the detective about his wife`s miscarriage -- during his interrogation.

Then after this, please what I`d like to show is the interrogation that Sam is referencing about of the neighbor and the confession. Let`s first stalk

about the miscarriage, go ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FALLIS: We just lost -- could have lost or had our 3rd miscarriage. Do you know how depressing that is for a woman? Not one, not two, but three.

Get your hopes up? All day she had been talking about it. Do you know how she broke the news to me? She came out and said, "Well I guess I`m OK to

drink."

And I told her, I said, you know what, that was really disrespectful. And not for just me, but for you, for us, and for what we`re trying to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: I bet in there is something he said that was really harsh, and when she did shoot herself, that she was sort of acting out on him,

remember she`s somebody that her -- fellow employees were afraid of. And, that what he was saying, what did I do? What did I do, he means what did

he precipitate by saying what he said to her.

Here`s the neighbor that Sam was talking about. And you guys prepare yourselves, what my defense attorney has lined up here, Nick Glover,

Fallis` neighbor says he overheard Tom confess to his parents, but the lead detective disputed this on the stand today. Look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GLOVER: What I heard him saying, oh, my God what have I done? He proceed to say, I shot my wife.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did Nick Glover ever tell you he heard Tom Fallis say, I just shot her?

MICHAEL YATES, FRM. COLORADO LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: No.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you certain?

YATES: I am certain.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In fact the information you received from all three Glovers was that Ashley Fallis shot herself?

YATES: Correct.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: During that interview, did you tell Officer Yates the facts you reported to this jury.

GLOVER: Yes, I did.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How certain are you that you told Officer Yates that information?

GLOVER: I`d take it to my grave.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SARA AZARI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Wow.

PINSKY: So, Sara, how do we resolve ...

AZARI: Well first of all, in response to Sam, children say a lot of things, they can`t always be believed.

PINSKY: Yes.

AZARI: And this neighbor, how do we know he`s not a begrudged neighbor. What`s his motive in testifying, it doesn`t mean his testimony is truthful

...

PINSKY: He may have had a thing for the wife, who knows.

AZARI: Who knows, exactly. But you know what, the two big problems I see with this case is one, where is the motive? Where is the million dollar

life insurance policy, where are the affairs, where are the things we normally see in these cases that lead a husband to kill his wife?

And secondly the shoddy investigation in this case speaks volumes to the reasonable doubt.

PINSKY: Hang on, this tape the dance minutes before she dies.

AZARI: Exactly. They`re having a great time, there`s no reason for him to kill his wife.

SCHACHER: And there`s no reason for her to kill herself. It speaks ...

PINSKY: Unless -- let me talk for a minute, unless he says something terrible to her in the setting of having had a miscarriage, this impulsive

woman who scares people with her impulsivity. We`ve heard thousand pills or whatever it is on hand, might have done something terrible.

(CROSSTALK)

TROY SLATEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Inconsistent testimony, that`s what -- there`s a treasure throve of this. That is a defense attorney`s dream.

We`ve got the sister of the guy that allegedly heard this confession from an upstairs window say that no, we didn`t hear that, that`s her own

brother.

We have one police officer said there was a confession. Several others say there wasn`t a confession, this guy was acting incredulous, that he was

being accused of killing his wife, the mother of his children. That`s why he was slamming that water bottle on the desk in the interrogation room.

SCHACHER: Either that or he was acting. You guys -- I get there`s reasonable doubt but it doesn`t mean he`s innocent. We also have to look

at the victim who cannot ...

SLATEN: No, reasonable doubt equals not guilty.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHACHER: I understand that there`s a difference. But there is, I also can be the voice of the ...

PINSKY: I`m glad you are.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Here`s the deal, I`ll stand behind you on this one. Lisa Bloom sat in that chair yesterday talking about this very case, she said, you

know, what I`ve covered hundreds of these cases and it`s always the husband. Always the husband ends up being a murderer.

SLATEN: Of course, and he`s in the bedroom with her when she`s shot and killed, of course they`re looking at the husband, but at the end of the day

...

PINSKY: But she`s saying it ends up being the husband in the vast, vast, vast -- always according to Lisa Bloom, is it always? Sara?

AZARI: It`s not, I have a case identical to this and it`s not.

PINSKY: OK, we have to take a break. Next, we will go live to the courtroom for an update. I will show you footage from the body cam of the

first officer on the scene. And later, we have a fist fight between two girls that ends in nine arrests -- you have to see this video, and

ultimately murder. We`re back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FALLIS: I didn`t want her to go get high. I didn`t want her to smoke weed. I don`t believe in it. I don`t want my wife to smoke weed. I`m

talking to her in the closet and she said, "I`m going to do what I want."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, so you didn`t say that before. Then what happened?

FALLIS: I`ve already told you ...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what else? Then what else ...

FALLIS: And then I heard the freaking gun, I`m like, what are you doing?

And she was sitting, she had the gun, and she -- I just saw -- I don`t want her gone. I don`t want her gone. I don`t -- don`t do it -- what do I do

without her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Tom Fallis, his former corrections officer gives his version of what happened tonight, his wife was shot in the head, he is now on trial

for murder. I`m back with Sam, Sara, and Troy. Joining us by phone I`ve got James Redmond, a Reporter for the Greeley Tribune. He just got out of

the court room James, what went on the court today?

JAMES REDMOND, REPORTER: You know it was actually a pretty slow midday, we heard a couple important witnesses, we had the Evans Police Officer who

interviewed Nick Glover take a stand today and say that Nick never heard told him he heard Tom confess. And then right before court wrapped up for

the day, we had Fort Collins Detective Jaclyn Shaklee who was sort of the lead detective when the Fallis case is reopened.

She took the stand, started to testify about her process of going through the case when it was reopened and then court adjourned for the day.

PINSKY: Did she say anything surprising?

REDMOND: Nothing too surprising the first few seconds, we heard mostly about her process. A couple of things did stand out to me, she said she

has a photo of Ashley and her kid in her office, because she thinks that for her the job is about the victims. And she works for the family and the

victims.

PINSKY: There you go Sam.

SCHACHER: James I have a question though really quick. When you heard the neighbor take the stand, I believe his name is Nick. Did you find out if

there is any sort of motive, why he would want to smear this father/husband? What would he gain from saying he heard this confession?

REDMOND: Nothing that would support that really came out during his testimony.

SCHACHER: OK.

PINSKY: All right, thank you. Thank you for that report. We will keep an eye on this case. We really appreciate you joining us.

Now, we have gotten a hold of some of the body camera footage. So this is a camera on the body of one of the first officers on the scene. Now I have

to warn you this is a bit graphic, take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir, sir ...

(OFF-MIC)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Daddy ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand that, Ma`am, but -- I`m going to ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re (explicit).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Respirations ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: And in spite of the heroic efforts of those first responders, it obviously did not turn out well.

Now in court today, they showed evidence of the scratches, you`re looking at them now, that`s scratch marks on Tom`s neck and chest. I`m going to

show you how in court he explained these. You`re seeing them there, here`s how he explained them in court.

FALLIS: I didn`t shoot my wife.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tell me what happen them, tell me what happened why you have those scratches on your body?

FALLIS: I just told you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, that is not from you.

FALLIS: You know what, yeah, it is. When you shave your chest, you sit there and do this all day.

PINSKY: Again, we are talking about that man who is accused of murdering his wife. He says she committed suicide, she had had a miscarriage that

day, she had hundreds of pills on her. Her psychiatrist didn`t know it, her psychiatrist also didn`t know that her fellow employees felt threatened

by her, that she`d had previous suicidal notes. He didn`t know about any suicidal ideation.

The husband who you see there accused of murder believes she shot herself. But Sara, there`s conflicting evidence and I`m going to show you the piece

of evidence you referenced in the last block. Officer Jason Phipps testified today that there was gunshot residue found on her hands but not

on his. Tell me about the implication.

AZARI: Well, Dr. Drew, that`s the golden piece of evidence in this case I think that was not preserved. And that`s why I say it`s a very shoddy ...

PINSKY: What do you mean not preserved?

AZARI: Well, they should have gloved his hand. And that would have been - - if there was gunshot residue on Tom`s hand that would have been highly indicative if not conclusive that he was the shooter. And they didn`t

preserve the evidence. They just failed to glove his hand.

PINSKY: So Troy, you think he could have gone and washed it off because he`s a corrections officer-- he`s not a police officer so he may not know

...

SCHACHER: Oh, I know enough. If I were to commit a murder I would wash my hands ...

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Sam`s husband -- be careful.

(OFF-MIC)

Anyway Troy.

SLATEN: One of the things you do immediately in an investigation involving a gun shots is what Sam was saying -- was bag the hand -- Sara was saying,

Sara and Sam, where you bag the hand in order to preserve the gunshot residue that has a very distinct pattern when someone fires a gun.

This gun powder streaks up on your hand and you can look at it with all different kinds of lights. Like on CSI that we`ve a gazillion times, no

that wasn`t done in this case. But, the fact that it`s on her is damning for the prosecution. I know you want, Sam, you want justice in this case,

but justice doesn`t necessarily mean convicting whoever is on trial.

SCHACHER: That`s not true, that`s where I`m coming from, where I`m coming from is that I feel like that a lot of pieces don`t fit. I don`t buy the

fact that he scratched himself.

SLATEN: That`s reasonable doubt.

SCHACHER: I`m not a lawyer so I`m not going to be -- or on the jury. You can see me as the voice of public opinion, the court of public opinion. I

don`t buy it. When you scratch your chest ...

SLATEN: He claims he`s never shaved his chest before ...

(CROSSTALK)

SCHACHER: To the point where you`re drawing blood. He has crusty blood marks. It`s one thing to have scratch marks. It`s another to have crusty

marks.

AZARI: But even if the scratches came from an altercation between him and his wife, that still doesn`t mean he shot and killed her.

SCHACHER: That definitely points to the direction, sorry.

PINSKY: Sara, why do you think they reopened this case? It was closed, right? Then they reopened it.

AZARI: Yes, I think there was a lot of pressure, this is a high profile case, there`s a lot of pressure from her mother and family that, you know

what, we`re not buying that this is a suicide. That we think our brother - - our son-in-law is the suspect.

SCHACHER: That speaks volumes too. If I were to end up dead, I guarantee you my parents would never ever look at my husband, guarantee that. So for

this family to think, "Huh, we don`t trust that she committed suicide, we don`t trust him." I think right then and there speaks volumes to me.

PINSKY: And we will keep an eye on this case going forward.

Next up, using a public bathroom in North Carolina just got complicated and controversial. I will explain why after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED CROWD: This is not OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All of these people are upset. They are angry. They have been left out of the democratic process.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The demonstrators are opponents to a newly passed state law that they say is devastating to the civil liberties of transgender

people. The law strikes down a recently passed ordinance in Charlotte. It would have protected trans people and allowed them to select a restroom of

their choice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Allows grown men to share bathrooms and locker facilities with girls and women.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: North Carolina`s bill signed into law Wednesday, it means transgender people in the state of North Carolina must use the

restroom related to the gender on their birth certificate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Now that new law in North Carolina requires everyone to use the public restroom that matches the gender on their birth certificate, which,

of course, everyone carries around with them. Then the governor has signed a bill that stops cities from allowing transgender individuals from using

the bathroom of their choice.

I`m back with Sam and Sara, and joining us is Jessica Tailor, a transgender airline pilot. I also have Peter Sprigg, a Senior Fellow for policy

studies at the Family Research Council. Now, the North Carolina Governor Pat McCrory calls this the outrage over this law "political theater." watch

this from NBC.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. PAT MCCRORY, (R) NORTH CAROLINA: This political correctness has gone amok.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But shouldn`t we be politically correct for everyone?

MCCRORY: We -- no, that`s the problem. We are too much politically correct. We have this political correctness in our nation has taken over

common sense. And the common sense is not to have a government regulation telling businesses who they allow in what restroom or locker room or shower

facility.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: OK, so here`s my horse in this race. I`m not a fan of political correctness, I think we`ve overdone that, I`m not a fan of government

overreach. But Jessica, tell me how this substantively will change the lives of people who are transgender, aside from the issues the Governor is

talking about?

JESSICA TAILOR, TRANSGENDER AIRLINE PILOT: It puts us at risk. Walking in -- you want me to walk into a man`s bathroom? And I`m OK by doing that,

but it puts me at risk by getting beat up by walking in there. It puts a man who is a female to male transgender at risk for walking in a female`s

rest room. This puts us at risk, when we`re already at risk, our numbers of suicide and murder are outrageous.

PINSKY: OK, so from your standpoint this was not -- I`m so glad you`re here. So it`s not about political correctness, right? It`s not about

government overreach, it`s about a pragmatic real -- what should we call this? Life? What should we call this?

TAILOR: This is protection.

PINSKY: A safety issue?

TAILOR: This is protection ...

PINSKY: And you`re a person that can protect yourself, right?

TAILOR: Yeah, absolutely.

PINSKY: But still ...

TAILOR: It has nothing to do with that. It has everything to do with -- if the person -- and we`re not protecting these people that want to walk

into a male or female`s restroom and molest people, that`s not the protection here. The protection is for people like me who genuinely feel

like I was born in the wrong body, to use the restroom that identify in public. Now imagine if I get off the airplane, I walk into that terminal

in Charlotte and I have to go walk -- walk into the men`s restroom. How is that going to look?

PINSKY: Peter I want to bring you into this conversation. I want to get your A. your opinion and B, do you feel that people of faith or somehow --

are their world view somehow under attack in this whole process?

PETER SPRIGG, SENIOR FELLOW, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL: Well I agree with the Governor in that clip you just played that it`s common sense, actually

that`s under attack. Throughout human history, we have separated biological males and biological females for the purpose of some of these

activities such as bathing, dressing and going to the bathroom.

And, that reflects a perfectly reasonable concern for both safety and privacy particularly on the part of women and girls, but really on the part

of everyone. And one thing that I think is an indication of how radical the transgender activists have become is offering a generous accommodation,

what I believe is a generous accommodation of either a single user restroom or a gender neutral restroom is considered a form of discrimination by

them.

PINSKY: Let me interrupt you. Is that discrimination or is that OK?

TAILOR: No, it`s absolutely discrimination. The only thing radical ...

PINSKY: Hang on, because it gets confusing very fast. But doesn`t that solve the safety problem for you?

TAILOR: In essence, a unisex bathroom would in essence solve that problem. And your right, yes, it would help segment that. This problem is this

opens up the entire community for discrimination by all people. Once they feel like they have that upper hand they`re not going to put a unisex

bathroom into a facility that has two bathrooms in it, and one of them is used for unisex, the other one is, what? We both make them both unisex?

AZARI: You`re singling out the transgender because you have a unisex bathroom that supposedly unisex but it`s really there for people like her.

So, you know, and I -- there`s two issues, one is this is in North Carolina and secondly it`s unconstitutional. It`s gender discrimination, its

discrimination based on identity, a sexual identity.

SCHACHER: Yeah, because this isn`t political correctness, this is about equality. And it makes me so angry we`ve made great strides in equality,

and now we`re devolving in North Carolina, this isn`t just about the bathrooms, which is totally discriminatory. This is also about the fact

that an employer can fire somebody based on their sexuality, based on their gender identity. Not because they have crappy job performance, because of

that sexual orientation.

TAILOR: And I agree with Sam but this is -- you made a comment in there these ...

PINSKY: That was Peter.

TAILOR: Peter, the political or the LGBT radicalists. The only people that`s radical are these religious groups going after the normal people of

everyday society that are just trying to live their lives in freedom. That`s the only radicalist we`re doing with in the LGBT community. Just

let us live our lives without all of this fear mongering that the United States puts into our community.

PINSKY: And then Peter, I`ve got about 30 seconds, we will continue the conversation, but please go ahead and respond before I go to break.

SPRIGG: Well, first of all, this is not a step backward, because neither - - North Carolina does not have a law prohibiting discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender identity. So, this is preserving the status

quo rather than taking a step backwards.

But, I think that the 0.3 percent of the population that is transgender should not be appeased at the expense of the safety and privacy of the 99.7

percent of the population that is not transgender.

AZARI: But we have laws that criminalize certain conduct in a bathroom. And those laws will come into play and they will punish those individuals

who are creeps who go into public bathrooms for the wrong reasons.

PINSKY: Yeah, we`re going to ...

AZARI: We don`t need to keep transgenders out of the bathroom that they identify.

PINSKY: Leave it there. Next up, we will keep it going, I`ve much more to say here obviously. Thank you, guys.

Later, a fight between teen girls becomes an unbelievable brawl. Murder is the result. I`ll get into that more after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And any stand we take becomes discrimination.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The sweeping in discriminatory measure was introduced, passed, and signed into law in just 12 hours.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They have gone on and taken the fear of few and stoked the fear of many.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m not saying don`t get married, we`re just saying that no one should be forced to do something outside of their religious

beliefs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have not taken away any rights that currently existed in any city in North Carolina, from Raleigh, to Durham, to Chapel

Hill, to Charlotte.

We`ve -- every city and every corporation has the exact same discrimination policy that they had this week as they had two weeks ago.

PINSKY: North Carolina`s new law says you must use the public restroom that corresponds with the gender reflected by your birth certificate.

Back with Sam, Sara, Jessica and Peter, and I`m going to show you a tweet from James (ph). He`s a transgender female to male. He sent this to the

governor, he says, "It`s now the law for me to share a restroom with your wife." That`s a man and he now has to go into a women`s restroom.

The governor says he responded to public fear about children sharing facilities like showers with transgender adults. So, take a look at this

from NBC.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCRORY: This had to do with overstepping the -- a government overreach in forcing businesses to allow men to be in women`s or girl`s restroom or

shower facilities. We`ve had these proper etiquette situations for decades in our country. And all of a sudden, we`re -- through a political

correctness, we`re throwing away basic etiquette. I mean, one of your daughter or son was showering and all of a sudden a man walks into the

locker room and says, "This is what I am." Would you want that for your child?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Peter, it`s sort of a -- it`s kind of a peculiar notion of adults showering with children in the first place. I would say that`s a bad idea

just in and of itself.

But, Jen, you had a -- excuse me, Jessica, you had a question for Mr. Peter Sprigg.

TAILOR: Yeah, what -- just so you know, I`m Jessica Taylor, I`m an airline pilot. I am transgender. I want to know if you can see me, first of all,

what would make you uncomfortable with me using the women`s restroom.

PINSKY: She`s a very attractive woman.

SPRIGG: Well ...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Very.

SPRIGG: ... a lot of transgender people are not. A lot of people -- a lot are not convincing in their presentation as the opposite of their

biological sex. And so it`s obvious to the people who see them that this is actually a man in a dress and not a biological woman. And that can

create -- I can understand how that would create fear and anxiety on the part of women and girls in a lady`s room. So ...

TAILOR: Oh, so only well-dressed women can go into the lady`s room? Is that what you`re saying, only women that are attractive, just like the

Donald Trump thing ...

SPRIGG: I`m saying ...

TAILOR: ... only women that are attractive can have these positions or use the restroom in this case.

SPRIGG: Well, if you appear to be female, then you probably will not be challenged.

TAILOR: OK. So who`s going to set the standards to appearance of female? Is there going to be a TSA watching the door of the bathroom and you`re

going to say, "Oh, you`re not womanly enough." I know a lot of women that are very, you know, neutral in their gender and you`re going to tell them

they can`t -- they got to go use the men`s restroom now in North Carolina? Well, that makes sense.

SPRIGG: The point is, this is an issue that you and other transgender people have brought on yourselves by choosing to present ...

TAILOR: Oh, wow.

SPRIGG: ... yourselves as the opposite of your biological sex. So this is the consequence of that choice you`ve made. I`m not saying you choose the

feelings. But, you have made the choice to present yourselves that way, this is a consequence ...

TAILOR: OK, so with religious persecution ...

SPRIGG: ... to pander to this.

TAILOR: With religious persecution, this is what I`m subject to, is your own ability to restrict my life and to take just basic rules out of my life

and make me use the men`s restroom, so that`s what you want me to do, is walk into an airport facility and use a men`s restroom?

PINSKY: I got to say, I would be more ...

SPRIGG: So as I said at the outset, I think that gender neutral restrooms or single user restrooms are a reasonable accommodation. But in your view,

that`s discriminatory because it`s stigmatizing. I think that`s ...

TAILOR: No, what I`m saying is why can`t we just do what normal states do, we don`t have to step back 30 years to accommodate the Christian religion

...

SPRIGG: Most ...

TAILOR: ... in North Carolina.

SPRIGG: This is an important -- OK, this is an important point. The majority of states do not have any law prohibiting discrimination based on

gender identity. The majority of states have no such law. So ...

TAILOR: Yeah, because they don`t legislate either way. You guys have gone against most legislation and you said, we don`t care about your gender

identity, we don`t care about this stuff, we`re stepping back and we`re actually making it illegal for this to take its place.

PINSKY: I`m going to put you guys ...

TAILOR: ... which other states are moving forward with this stuff.

PINSKY: You guys go back into your corners, back into your corners. We`re going to wrap it up. You got -- thank you, guys, interesting conversation.

I don`t think we`re going to solve this issue here tonight. We -- I think -- there are viewers got a good look at what the differences are.

Quick question to Sara, constitutionally, do you have an issue?

AZARI: Of course, because it`s gender discrimination.

PINSKY: And you -- that you heard ...

AZARI: Gender discrimination and ...

PINSKY: ... you heard Jessica zeroed in on not just gender but sort of presentation discrimination. It was ...

AZARI: Of course, it`s that, too. But, gender discrimination comes in different forms. And, it includes discrimination against somebody`s

identification with a particular sex. So, it is clearly ...

PINSKY: This is not a transgender issue even, is it?

AZARI: It goes beyond that.

PINSKY: It goes beyond that, OK.

AZARI: Absolutely.

PINSKY: Very interesting, very interesting. I -- you know, my kids are almost starting to college, and they think -- they do a lot of thinking

about these issues, because these issues for young people are very top of mind. They`re very relevant, they`re very substantive.

SCHACHER: Can I say team Jessica?

PINSKY: OK.

SCHACHER: Whoo.

PINSKY: Next, we`re not -- listen, we`re going to stay -- I appreciate the conversation mostly.

Next up, caught on tape, an after school fist fight leads to murder. We`re back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Beat her (inaudible).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: High school drama ends in chaos and death. Caught on cell phone video. Watch as a fist fight between two girls escalates into a

full scale brawl.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say as many as 50 people were involved and that it was even coordinated on social media.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An 18-year-old man was stabbed in the back of the neck and died. Nine people are charged with murder.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: That`s the riot, and we can`t confirm who in that video was amongst those charged. Police say the fight was over a boy. It started at

school. The school has said that claim has not been substantiated.

Back with Sam and Sara and Troy is back with us. Sara, you have some interesting theories about the arrest in this.

AZARI: Well, I think that -- you know, initially, there were 50 people involved, and nine are arrested and charged. But, I can guarantee you that

all nine are not going to be convicted. Because a lot of these people, from what I can tell, and Troy might disagree with me, got involved to

defend themselves and defend the other people involved, some of the parents that got involved. I can guarantee you that they weren`t there trying to

join the riot.

(CROSSTALK)

AZARI: Well ...

SLATEN: It`s the felony murder rule, Dr. Drew, which means, that if you`re committing a felony, you`re going there to get involved in the melee or

you`re committing a felony and somebody dies as a result. You`re guilty of murder, whether you`re ...

AZARI: But you`re assuming ...

SLATEN: ... just driving the getaway car and someone dies inside the bank, you`re guilty of murder.

AZARI: But if you`re there to defend somebody from getting killed or hurt, that`s a different story.

So, the video that I`m watching, first of all, it looks like an amped-up version of like the outsiders, it`s creepy, people have pipes, they have

baseball bats, they have knives. And I see people ...

PINSKY: Warriors.

AZARI: ... swinging, I don`t see any of the parents trying to stop the fight. I see them ...

PINSKY: Well, Sam ...

AZARI: ... partaking in the fight. And that`s what worries me.

(CROSSTALK)

SLATEN: There were adults here, adults got involved in it.

PINSKY: That`s what I want to get into next. The sheriff addressed the role of some of the adults who got involved in this brawl in this piece of

tape. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF RICHARD ROUNDTREE, RICHMOND COUNTY, GA: Any time you have a parent driving a child to any location for the purposes of fighting, there`s

something wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Joining us is the Richmond county sheriff whom you just saw. His name is Richard Roundtree. Tell us about the involvement, Richard, of the

-- Sheriff, about the mother of this alleged stabber please.

ROUNDTREE: Yeah, absolutely, Drew. It`s not just the mother of that stabber, it`s the mother of other side, too. And the problem comes in that

this was something that not -- did not spontaneously occur. This is something that had been brewing for several days, it was planned. You

know, you have one mother on one side, inviting the group to come to the neighborhood to fight. And then you have a mother on the other side

driving their child to the altercation.

So, you know, this is not something that just boot up. This is a premeditated event that we knew that could very well -- could have easily

been avoided. And that`s why we took it so seriously and wanted to charge all parties involved.

PINSKY: And Sheriff, a local news station described your community as generally quiet. So does this incident come as an absolute surprise? Was

there was no sense that something like this could even happen around you?

ROUNDTREE: Well, you know, we`re a large city in Georgia. So we do have our challenges. But, what makes this case so disturbing, again, is the

generational aspect of it, where you have parents and children involved in such a violent act, when in essence, it started over -- we can certainly

just -- you know, high school drama, which we`ve all been through it. And no one should have lost their lives over some high school drama over a boy

and two girls and some kind of a connection to a certain boy.

PINSKY: Sara, you had a question?

AZARI: Yeah, I do have a question, Sheriff. What is the evidence of the premeditation or this planning that you referred to earlier?

ROUNDTREE: Well, this has been escalating for a matter of days within the school system and it got bigger and bigger. And then, during the core

(inaudible) investigation, we were able to go back and track social media sites. We retrieved evidence from phones, corresponds between the

individuals planning the fight. It actually had plan to originate in one location then actually move to the residence of the home.

So, you know, we have back traffic to show that this was an ongoing event, and this was a planned event. Again, like we say, you know, we have one

mother of a child inviting the group to come to their neighborhood to fight. Then the another one was actually driving there. So that`s why we

say it`s premeditation in fact. And this had been going on for several days prior to this particular altercation being (inaudible).

PINSKY: I must say mostly girls fighting here? Is that all over a boy?

SCHACHER: It wasn`t -- mostly girls, but you can definitely see that there are some boys involved, too. But again, this was something that escalated

on social media, on Facebook, it was organized. The parents instigated it. They did not try and stop it. And the mother of the stabber tried to ...

PINSKY: Alleged stabber.

SCHACHER: Alleged stabber tried to take the victim to her son, if this doesn`t get you confusing, the -- her son was the one that stabbed the

victim ...

PINSKY: Allegedly.

SCHACHER: ... allegedly tried to take the victim to the hospital. So, another altercation breakout, thought that was more important, got out of

the car ...

PINSKY: Then get in the kid to the hospital.

SCHACHER: Yes, to participate in another fight. And the kid later died.

PINSKY: All right, all right ...

SCHACHER: So, shame on these parents, they should be charged.

PINSKY: ... this is phenomenal.

Sheriff, thank you. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for helping sort this out. It looks like you got your work cut out for you.

Next up, I have a farewell to Patty Duke. We`ll be back with that after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PATTY DUKE, OSCAR-WINNING ACTRESS: Having played Helen Keller, where I beat up a grownup, that was very therapeutic for me. But it was not the

absolute answer.

The manifestations started with the depression, didn`t get out of bed for months at a time except to go to the bathroom or attempt suicide. Then,

the surge upward would happen. And, then I spent all of my money and anybody else`s that I could, and did things that were really kind of scary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: That was my interview with Patty Duke on this program in 2011. She was describing there her bipolar disorder and mental illness, common

mental illness in which as she described, you get severe depressions, really severe depressions many times. Bipolar, one, is also associated

with manic episodes, in which people, she said, they become hyper verbal, they don`t sleep much, they have excessive energy, they spend a lot of

money, they`re hyper sexual, and they start to think, you know, various things about themselves and if they`re not treated, they will actually

disconnect from reality.

Patty Duke died today. She was 69 years of age. She was a wonderful woman if you -- anyone ever had a chance to speak with her, you know, I grow up

with her television shows and she, of course, was the Miracle Worker, she`s played ...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Helen Keller.

PINSKY: ... Helen Keller.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Frustrated Helen Keller.

PINSKY: But speaking to her -- I spoke to her a couple of times, that was one of my interviews and I was so impressed. I mean, she is just such a

lovely woman.

Now, the cause of death appears to have been sepsis from an intestinal rupture, which to me, means she had what`s called the small-bowel

obstruction, where the bowel twist for various reasons on itself, the blood supply gets cut off, the bowel ruptures into the abdominal cavity. And all

that material is very contaminated, in fact, full of bacteria, causes peritonitis, causes sepsis, renal failure death.

SCHACHER: Is it sudden? Is she -- would she be in pain?

PINSKY: It sounds like she was doing well very recently, can be rapidly progressive, where people get -- it`s very, very painful when it comes on

and the peritonitis ...

SLATEN: Same thing when your appendix burst, right?

PINSKY: It is the same idea, it just can be a little more catastrophic.

She was one of the -- she`s an Oscar-winner, she was a mental health advocate, she`s one of the first public figures to discuss mental health

and their own personal struggles, particularly. I remember when she went publicly. Do you guys remember that? It was a big deal.

SCHACHER: That`s how I know her, I don`t know her so much as an actress other than Helen Keller. I know her as somebody that shared her story and

may feel more comfortable about talking about like my general anxiety disorder and things like that.

So, for her to be so transparent about having bipolar disorder, to me, kind of destigmatize it a little bit.

PINSKY: So you guys -- Sam and I share a generalized anxiety disorder. I -- you know, I panic but you don`t know.

SCHACHER: I panic, too.

PINSKY: See, when I got in front of the Staples Center, my panic came on.

SCHACHER: That`s what I felt, too. I can have an empaths, too.

PINSKY: Do you guys have any questions about Patty or the way she ...

SLATEN: Well, I think I see ...

PINSKY: You`re just saying that Patty did a song for me.

SLATEN: I was -- you know, I was a child actor, you know, for many years.

PINSKY: Oh, that`s right, no wonder.

SLATEN: And so I noticed that a lot of kids that were in the business that then have this taken away from them, that suddenly the limelight is gone,

then they turn to other things like alcohol, drugs, sex addiction, all kinds of things in order to give themselves some of that feeling that they

had ...

PINSKY: The high.

SLATEN: ... when -- the high of everyone telling you how great you are, and how wonderful it is, and you`re on TV, and all these things. So, I ...

PINSKY: She did not. She did not -- well, she may have had a little of substance thing, I don`t know. But, she really did not. She turned to

advocacy, which is really why she was such a wonderful woman and had such a flourishing life ultimately. And she did play and performing and reach all

of our lives in many ways.

DDR, this program, well done, panel. Thank you all for watching. We`ll see you next time. Nancy Grace, next.

END