Return to Transcripts main page
Dr. Drew
New Developments In The Hulk Hogan Sex Scandal Tape; Road Rage Caught On Tape; Anger Gets Ugly When A Motorcyclist And A Car Play A High- Speed Game Of Chicken; A Prep School Rapist Blames His Lawyers Now That He Is Behind Bars; A Woman Suicidal Driving With Her Family Behind Her, Killed By Police; Two Alabama Police Officers Are On Paid Leave After Shooting And Killing A Suicidal Woman
Aired April 06, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[19:00:15] DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST OF "DR. DREW" SHOW (voice- over): Tonight, breaking news. New developments in the Hulk Hogan sex scandal tape. If you thought that $140 million case was over, you were
wrong.
Then outrage. A suicidal woman at the wheel with a knife. She is pursued by police. They killed her. Why? Her family is here for an
exclusive live interview, and they would like answers
Plus, road rage caught on tape. Anger gets ugly when a motorcyclist and a car play a high-speed game of chicken. Both in big trouble tonight.
Let us get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC INTRODUCTION)
PINSKY: As I said, breaking news tonight in the Hulk Hogan sex tape scandal. The Gossip website ordered to pay him $140 million says, "Not so
fast." Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TERRY BOLLEA, A.K.A. HULK HOGAN, AMERICAN WRESTLER/T.V. PERSONALITY: My problem is this whole videotape you guys put out that lives forever.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Total damages to the plaintiff, $115 million dollars.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Breaking news, the jury says Hulk Hogan`s anguish over that leaked sex tape worth more than $140 million.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID HOUSTON, BOLLEA`S ATTORNEY: This is not only his victory today, but also anyone else who has been victimized by tabloid journalism.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, ENTERTAINMENT JOURNALIST: There is a man, Dr. Drew, that rolled around in his underwear like a grease pig for money and he is
worried about the shame of a sex tape.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICK DENTON, GAWKER FOUNDER: We all knew that this -- the appeal`s court would need to resolve this case. We expected to win this case.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ODUOLOWU: What did Gawker do that was so wrong?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Gawker says they want a new trial or at least have that huge judgment thrown out or drastically reduced. I will speak to Hogan`s
attorney in just a minute. But, first, joining us, Roseny Carrero, Actress, television host; AnneElise Goetz, Attorney and Leo Terrell,
Attorney. Leo, I am going to you first. Put on Carnac helmet.
LEO TERRELL, ATTORNEY: Yes.
PINSKY: Tell me what -- where is this going to go? What is coming up?
TERRELL: It is going to be either reduced, reversed, because Gawker did nothing wrong. This is a perfect --
PINSKY: But, Leo, Leo, imagine if you were in the cross hairs of gawker. Imagine if they did something horrible stuff --
TERRELL: The public was upset with Gawker because of the website.
PINSKY: Yes.
TERRELL: They favor Hulk Hogan. Hulk Hogan does not deserve $140 million. He does not have damage for that. He put his sex life at issue.
He talked about it. He bragged about it. Gawker reported a news story, and that jury got it wrong.
PINSKY: Leo.
TERRELL: Yes.
PINSKY: They wanted to send a message. Is it not the case that this sort of tabloid nonsense has gone too far where they do not feel -- listen,
let me give you a statement. Oh, no, Gawker made a statement. But, I wonder if you have the statement from the jury, where they talked about
what they are responding to.
You are having a hard time finding it, but if you would put it up there, I would appreciate it. They, basically, say that Gawker was sort of
arrogant and unrepentant and did not seem to understand they could hurt anybody. They did not care.
TERRELL: You said that Gawker did something wrong, let me think about that. No, absolutely not.
PINSKY: Hang on.
TERRELL: But you know what?
PINSKY: I need another comment.
TERRELL: Gawker is a news story. It is a news agency.
PINSKY: I need another comment.
TERRELL: And, that is a news story.
PINSKY: And AnneElise, help me out here. You are my defense lawyer. Help me out here.
ANNEELISE GOETZ, ATTORNEY: OK. So, if it is not invasion of privacy to go into someone`s bedroom and tape them having sex, I do not know what
is. That certainly is not news worthy. The jury looked at all the evidence and said --
PINSKY: But, hang on. And, the tape, Leo --
TERRELL: Shame on her. Shame on her.
GOETZ: No. No.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: She came up here from San Diego to be on the show.
TERRELL: Hulk Hogan is a celebrity. It is not John Q. Public with his wife. This is Hulk Hogan.
PINSKY: Hulk Hogan, the tape was stolen and done without his knowledge.
TERRELL: He bragged about having sex with his best friend`s --
GOETZ: It does not matter if you are bragging about it.
PINSKY: If I start bragging about what goes --
GOETZ: There are different things about talking versus actually like seeing a tape all over the internet. It is very, very different.
PINSKY: There is. Hold on. It has got to be the same person here. Roseny, help me out here. You have been in tabloid journalism a little
bit, right? You purported stuff. You have done --
ROSENY CARRERO, ACTRESS/T.V. HOST: I feel like he knew what he was doing when he did the sex tape.
TERRELL: Thank you!
CARRERO: However, everyone has a private life that should not be advertised for profit.
TERRELL: This are public figure.
CARRERO: However --
PINSKY: Without their knowledge or consent?
CARRERO: -- having been said, $140 million for a sex tape?
TERRELL: Thank you.
CARRERO: Come on.
PINSKY: So, just too much.
CARRERO: Not only too much. He is not a person who goes to work 9:00 to 5:00. He is a guy who has put his life out there. I do not even know
what is his real name? What is his real name?
PINSKY: All right.
CARRERO: No one knows.
(LAUGHING)
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: This always reminds me -- Gawker released a statement. Here it is. It reads in part, quote, Even if the verdict were to stand, there
is no justification" -- I think Leo Terrell wrote this opinion for them.
TERRELL: Yes, I did.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: "No justification for awarding tens of millions of dollars never, seen by victims of death and serious injure."
CARRERO: That is right.
PINSKY: That is your point. I get it. What is the maximum for a wrongful death, $2 million to $3 million?
TERRELL: Yes. It is less than $3 million to $4 million.
PINSKY: All right.
TERRELL: This guy got way too far.
PINSKY: All right. Here is what Hulk Hogan said about what he experienced. Here he is on ABC`s "Good Morning America."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[19:05:00] BOLLEA: I do not agree with any of this stuff I did. Talking about it is a lot different than having somebody illegally post the
tape when you are seen naked in front of 7 million people. I will be naked forever, you know, until my children`s children`s children die because of
the internet.
Even if we would have lost, even if we would have lost, it would have been good because everybody would have known what Gawker was all about,
because I exposed them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: The gossip website claims that, that jury based its decision on, quote, "Passion and prejudice and general distaste for Gawker," which I
echo here. Maybe not worth $140 million -- And, by the way, how is that going to go down, Leo, in terms of is it an appeal court that is going to
do that?
TERRELL: Well, they will first ask judge -- the trial judge to reduce the award. If they do not, then they have the right to appeal. But, what
Hulk Hogan`s attorney should do is cut a deal to avoid the appeal. Why? Because that case is going to be reversed or reduced.
PINSKY: All right. I have Hulk Hogan`s attorney right here.
TERRELL: Good.
PINSKY: As for that Leo, thank you.
TERRELL: Good.
PINSKY: David, any thought of making a deal here? Go ahead.
DAVID HOUSTON, HULK HOGAN`S ATTORNEY: Dr. Drew, thank you for having me. It is interesting to listen, because really Gawker has been fairly
successful in camouflaging the issue. And, Leo, we never objected to Gawker reporting the story, telling the story, putting out their post quite
to the contrary.
We sued on the basis that they published this particular sex tape. It was not necessary to tell a story. It had no newsworthiness as far as
discussing exactly what you are talking about. And, the jury reached a verdict based upon several things. They were presented with mathematical
formulas in the sense of what Gawker made by virtue of this post.
On top of that, they were also advised by the judge in the punitive damage phase that they had certain limitations in reference to what they
could or could not do. Mathematically, this jury absolutely stuck to the judge`s instructions to the letter. This was not a verdict to have a
passion or without consideration. I mean to the contrary, they did exactly what they were supposed to do.
PINSKY: So, David, no deal?
HOUSTON: You can agree or disagree with the amounts.
PINSKY: No deal for a reduction?
HOUSTON: We are not looking for a deal. What we are looking for some acceptance of responsibility by Gawker. We are not seeing it. Even though
their jury in the punitive damage phase -- their attorneys, to the jury, excuse me in the punitive damage phase argued Gawker gets it. Gawker has
learned their lesson.
We understand. You do not need to assess huge punitive damages against us. And, then literally, it was the next day as though those
statements were never made and gawker was at it again.
PINSKY: And, is not it David not just the fact that they aired the video but the commentary along the video that you had them read in court
that was so disgusting and unnecessary?
HOUSTON: Absolutely. And, that was another factor that went in to the jury`s decision. If this was an article to report on Hulk Hogan, his
sex life, what he was doing outside, the interesting thing was if you read the commentary of the post, there is absolutely nothing in there that
suggests it was a news article reporting on Hulk Hogan. To the contrary, it was salacious and really a blow by blow description of what occurs on
the sex tape.
PINSKY: Well, it was worse than that. It was weird taking the sex tape and making the worst sorts of innuendo and twists and really making it
disgusting. Let me ask you, before I let you go David, how is Hulk doing?
He is doing very well. We are very happy with the results. We obviously expected this. Gawker has made it known they were going to do
this. This is not a surprise. We beat them once, we will beat them again contrary to Leo`s opinion.
PINSKY: David, thank you for joining us.
TERRELL: You will never get $140 million. David, you know that and I know that. Cut a deal.
PINSKY: All right. We will leave it. David, thank you for joining us. I will have you back when there is no deal when you get that $140
million. And, I am going to make Leo sit here.
(LAUGHING)
TERRELL: That is right.
PINSKY: Next, breaking news about the prep school rapist. He is behind bars tonight.
And, later, caught on tape motorcycle versus car going 90 miles an hour. You will see the tape. Look at this. It is too much. Back after
this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Tonight, as a prep school rapist blames his lawyers now that he is behind bars. Owen Labrie was found
guilty of having sex with a 15-year-old freshman girl. It was part of a ritual called senior salute, where upper class men convinced younger coeds
to hook up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OWEN LABRIE, PREP SCHOOL RAPIST: She was a little more than the same. We would pause for a second. She would smile and giggle and then
you know, we would continue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Labrie used Facebook and email to lure his victim. Sentenced to a year in prison, he was free on bail during
appeal but blew it when he violated his curfew not once but eight times. Now locked up, Labrie says it is not his fault.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
PINSKY: Breaking news, Owen Labrie is asking for a new trial with new lawyers to fight his status as a lifetime registered sex offender.
Apparently, he was punished for using a computer to seduce his victim. He says, his old lawyers did a horrible job defending him. Back with Roseny,
AnneElise and Leo. And, Leo, is not it risky for him to ask for a new trial now?
TERRELL: No. He has a great choice. He declares his former attorneys incompetent, so he asked for a new trial to get that sex offender
category or classification eliminated. He is ruined for the rest of his life if he does not get that sex offender label taken off.
PINSKY: AnneElise, you read the documents. Risky? Do you think there is enough there that could go against him if he gets a new trial?
GOETZ: I do not think it is risky. I think that there is no way he is going to get it. And, if there is a perception that he is the stuck-up
kid, it is only getting worse by the fact that you had literally the best attorneys that you can buy --
PINSKY: By the way --
GOETZ: And, then he --
PINSKY: Paid for by somebody else.
GOETZ: Paid for someone else.
PINSKY: Yes.
GOETZ: They get him off on a multiple charges. And, what does he do? He comes back and says ineffective counsel. It is an incredibly high
legal standard. He is not going to reach it. To make some luck even worse than --
TERRELL: Being a stuck-up kid does not make you a sex offender. And, he maybe spoiled, he maybe selfish --
GOETZ: Yes, but raping someone --
PINSKY: Hang on.
TERRELL: Well, you know what? He has sex with a young girl.
[19:15:00] PINSKY: Hold it.
TERRELL: And, there is a difference between having sex with a young girl and raping someone.
PINSKY: Roseny, what is your gut tells you on this one?
CARRERO: I do not think he deserves a retrial on this. He was already found guilty. He needs to just -- he is spoiled. He is a spoiled
kid --
PINSKY: Do you think he feels like the rules do not apply to him?
CARRERO: Exactly. I do.
PINSKY: Let me get Howie Carr in here. He is the host of the "Howie Carr Show." Howie is there in Boston. Now, Labrie was at an elite prep
school. He is heading off to Harvard Divinity School, which I find ironic. My question is the same to you Howie, is he a kid that seems sort of above
the rules?
HOWIE CARR, HOST OF "HOWIE CARR SHOW": Well, he was a scholarship kid, Dr. Drew. And, he was obviously did very well at St. Paul`s. But,
you know, he made a big mistake. He thought he could get away with this.
This was part of the tradition, I guess, at St. Paul`s. It is a great prep school, one of the best in New England, that John Kerry the
secretary of state was one of the more famous graduates.
And, you know, he did not have a bad lawyer. You see Jay Carney. He is the lawyer. He was the lawyer for Whitey Bulger, the gangster --
PINSKY: Wow.
CARR: -- three years ago. I covered that whole trial. And, you know, I saw Jay right after the trial and I congratulated him on getting
him off on the rape charges.
PINSKY: Howie, let me ask you -- All right. So, you are saying that again what I was suggesting that it could be risky to go back in. He is
lucky to have gotten off for the rape charge.
But, I caught something you said there Howie. You said, at St. Paul`s there is some sort of tradition. We heard this in the trial.
Something called the -- I do not know what it is called -- the senior salute. Senior salute, a sex ritual. Tell me about that.
CARR: Well, what happens is I guess the top seniors, they make a list of the under class men or under class girls that they would like to seduce.
And, it is just some kind of a hokey -- I do not want to call it a tradition. Just sort of a sick tradition.
And, you get certain points if you get what they used to call first base, second base, third base or go all the way. And, so, he was really
after this one girl whose sister apparently he used to go out with. So, there was some kind of weird jack Kennedy thing going on here.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: All these New England allusions, I do not know why I am trying to keep up with you, Howie.
(LAUGHING)
CARR: Jack Kennedy did not have to deal with, you know, Facebook and e-mails and Twitter and Instagram. And, so, you know, he walks in and they
have got all this evidence against him. I mean what --
PINSKY: But, that Howie -- That is the point. That is the point I want to ask my attorneys about, which is, AnneElise --
GOETZ: Yes?
PINSKY: Smart kid, carefully educated. He is going to Harvard Divinity School. Does not he think about the electronic footprint he is
leaving behind with all these --
GOETZ: I do not think people do, shockingly. And, it is not kid versus adult. I am amazed by what people will send in text message, what
they will put in their e-mail. And, if you are putting it out in the internet, it is good as handing it over to the officials.
PINSKY: Roseny, you are nodding your head.
CARRERO: Well, because I think --
PINSKY: Does people do not think about that?
CARRERO: I think we are all guilty of that.
PINSKY: When you text something, did you think about it?
CARRERO: But, we do not think it is going to happen to us. We do not think any consequences --
PINSKY: Leo Terrell is out there, what can happen to you?
TERRELL: First of all, he was not convicted of rape. He was convicted of having sex.
PINSKY: But, that is the point. I was saying that is a good outcome.
TERRELL: But, that is not good enough because he is labeled as a sex offender. Here is the big elephant in the room. High school sex goes on
every day right now as we speak. This kid gets nailed for it and he is ruined for the rest of his life. Anybody who denies high school sex that
is going on right now, this kid gets punished.
PINSKY: Not only that --
GOETZ: No, no, no, no, no.
TERRELL: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
GOETZ: No, no, no, no. It is the law that if you are having sex with someone that is 15 -- he broke the law.
TERRELL: I am not disputing that.
GOETZ: What you are saying is that law should not exist?
TERRELL: I am not disputing that. I am saying --
GOETZ: We need to protect our children.
TERRELL: -- he should not be labeled as a sex offender.
GOETZ: That girl is a 15-year-old. Yes, he should, because he was convicted of this crime.
PINSKY: How old was he? Hold on. How old was he, 18 when this happened, 17?
GOETZ: I do not know.
PINSKY: Howie, how old was he when it happened.
CARR: 18. He was 18.
PINSKY: It is not illegal in this state if you are within three years, right?
TERRELL: Right. Right. Right. High school sex goes on every day all the time. And, this kid gets nailed with a sex offender label. That
is what I am arguing.
PINSKY: All right. Not only that, but how he got -- what he is in trouble for now, why he is back in jail was a probation violation. His
curfew was to be at his mother`s house by 5:00 p.m. He was busted when a reporter spotted him on the subway there in Boston. I do not know where he
was, orange liner? Red liner? Green liner? I do not know what it was, Howie
(LAUGHING)
Probably, the red liner. You knew which one it was. Howie knows it. We are getting full Boston history here. He had been visiting his
girlfriend. But the reporter tweeted, quote, "Labrie seems nervous only about the time. The train is stalled. He has to take a bus and be home by
5:00 to make the curfew." So, this kid was sort of hoodwink, but apparently there had been four other violations or something.
GOETZ: Right. This is the first one.
PINSKY: All right. But, the point is -- go ahead. Last thoughts.
GOETZ: He was continuing education classes instead of going to Harvard College where he had planned to go. So, that is what he was doing.
He was trying to get back to the house before.
[19:20:05] PINSKY: All right. All right,
GOETZ: He made the mistake of talking to the reporter that knew him from the trial. He should have just said, "I am not Owen Labrie." I just
look like Owen Labrie. I get mistaken for him all the time."
PINSKY: All right. We will keep it going. Later, road rage turns dangerous when two angry drivers, one of them on a motorcycle taken out at
each other at 90 miles an hour. One of this guy with the go-pro on the bike. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (voice-over): It was the case that rocked New Hampshire is exclusive prep school community. And, now, more
trouble for St. Paul School graduate, Owen Labrie. Labrie was convicted last year of sexually assaulting an underaged classmate. He broke curfew.
Prosecutors became aware of the alleged violation after a freelance reporter posted on Twitter.
[19:25:00] The reporter said Labrie was riding an MBTA Train from Cambridge to Boston after visiting his girlfriend at Harvard. In her
tweets, the reporter wrote that Labrie was worried because the train was stalled and he had to be home by curfew.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: He violated curfew eight times. It is breaking news. He had been free on bail while his lawyers appealed, but the judge now ordered
him back in jail.
(INTERMISSION MUSIC)
He wants a new lawyer and a new trial, he says. He says his attorneys did a bad job. I am back with Roseny, AnneElise, Leo and Howie.
And, Howie, as you said, his lawyer Jay Carney, A. Got him out of the rape charge and he is one of the best lawyers in town.
CARR: Yes. He is, Dr. Drew. He is definitely one of the best lawyers in town. You know, this kid, Owen, he is not a rich kid unlike
most of the people who go to St. Paul`s. He was on full scholarship. And, obviously, he did a good job if he got into Harvard. And, his family was
behind him 100 percent. They paid for Jay Carney.
He is usually a public defender. He has not only represented White Bulger, the infamous gangster, but also one of the Muslims who was accused
and convicted of plotting to bomb a mall, I believe, in Boston. And, you know, they spent a lot of money on this. They worked really hard on this.
And, the kid screwed up by this.
By the way, I just wanted to address one thing. One of your guests makes it sound like this was consensual sex. But, the girl said it was not
consensual sex, that he penetrated her with his digits against her will and she said that she told her mother that she wished that she were dead after
it was over.
TERRELL: No one said it was consensual. I know I did not say that, but here is the point. Jay Carney may have been a good lawyer, but bad
trial strategy. They put that kid on the witness stand and accused the victim, but you do not do that on trial. You do not do that on sexual
assault.
PINSKY: Now, it happened. Let me show what some of --
CARR: I think ultimately, the defendant has to make the decision whether he is going to go on the witness stand or not. We went through all
this in the Bulger case, was he going to go on, was he not going to go on. It is ultimately Owen Labrie`s decision --
PINSKY: Well, let me expose you guys to some of Labrie`s electronic communications. It adulterated my view of this kid. They were included in
the prosecution`s sentencing memo, but they were not allowed at trial. So, the jury did not see this, but take a look at this. And, I can only show
it to you in parts, because it is pretty crazy stuff.
He wrote to his friends e-mailed that his style with women was, quote, "To feign intimacy then stab them in the back, throw them in the
dumpster, lie in bed with them and pretend like I am in love."
Now, you could say, "Oh, he privato, privato. Look at this one. He quoted a comedian`s routine, "Another dumb (EXPLETIVE WORD) bucket struck
from my blank (EXPLETIVE WORD) bucket list." I cannot even tell you the words. But try to fill it in yourself with your imagination. And, that is
the words he used. Roseny, does that adulterate your senses the way it does to me?
CARRERO: That is disgusting.
PINSKY: He is disgusting, right?
CARRERO: Yes.
PINSKY: So, is there any high school kids that behave like that?
CARRERO: I mean --
PINSKY: Is that when you say sex one in high school, the way Leo Terrell --
TERRELL: Yes.
CARRERO: Well, sex does happen in high school.
TERRELL: Thank you.
CARRERO: But that does not mean that you can rape people for sex.
TERRELL: That is not a rape. That is guy talk and there is woman talk.
CARRERO: There is guy talk --
TERRELL: Guy talk. Woman talk. It is in high school. Let us not pretend that we never heard of it --
CARRERO: But, this is not guy talk. This guy -- there is something mental with this kid already. And, I am glad that we are actually
pinpointing it. And, he needs to be stopped and he needs to be marked for the rest of his life.
PINSKY: And, see I know Leo Terrell. He is full of bluster.
TERRELL: I am very fair-minded.
PINSKY: He is very fair-minded. You look you are about to cry, because you are sitting next to Leo and making these crazy comments.
GOETZ: I do not have a poker face, OK?
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: I am sorry. I am sorry. I know what happened to him today. He got toxoplasmosis in his brain --
GOETZ: I am not going to cry. I am not going to cry. But, I think it is upsetting when we are talking about 24 percent of women that are
abused, that are sexually abused come forth. The rest of them do not. And, when you see cases like this, it is hard, because you are thinking
about the victim. Then you are about this 15-year-old girl.
PINSKY: Yes.
GOETZ: I am sure it was very difficult for her to come forward. And, now, what this guy is proposing is let us just do it all again.
PINSKY: Yes.
GOETZ: And, it just breaks my heart for her.
PINSKY: We did not even get into the cultural ramifications of all this, the so-called rape culture we have in our society, which I only put
so-called because people are back and forth -- We have a rape culture. We have had it for a long time.
And, it is only recently being address and it is being actively addressed on college campuses. Maybe, it will get more activity addressed
on high school campuses. At least for me, draw the line of what is healthy and what is not healthy.
I do not think this kid was engaged in healthy behavior. Let us at least all look at and talk to your own high school kids you have at home
about what is and is not appropriate and respectful behavior and boundaries.
Next up, I have got a woman suicidal driving with her family behind her, killed by police. Her family wants to know why, what happened. They
are here for an exclusive live interview. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Two Alabama police officers are on paid leave after shooting and killing a suicidal woman.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JULIAN MCPHILLIPS, BOARTS` ATTORNEY: For them to just haul off and shoot and kill her is just outrageous. It is asinine. It is insane.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Melissa Boarts` mother called 911 to report that her 36-year-old daughter was behind the wheel and possibly a
danger to herself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCPHILLIPS: She may have been suicidal, but not all the way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Cops pursued her for several miles. Then Melissa pulled over. Police say she got out of her vehicle armed with
a weapon and charged them in a threatening manner.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCPHILLIPS: At most it was a pocket knife. And, she was no threat to any of them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE OFFICER: Officered opened fire. Melissa died at the scene.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[19:35:00] PINSKY: Melissa Boarts killed by police. They say she charged at them with a weapon, but the family calls this shooting
outrageous. Back with Roseny, AnneElise and Leo. And, joining me exclusively, I have Melissa`s parents, Michael and Terry. I have Melissa`s
twin sister, Melinda. And, their lawyer, Julian McPhillips.
First of all, thank you for joining us. And, I am just so sorry it is under these circumstances. This is a tragedy no matter how you look at
it, but thank you for at least being here to try to shed some light on this today. Terry, when you got to the scene, what did the officers tell you?
TERRY BOARTS, MELISSA BOARTS`MOTHER: When we got to the scene, they told us that her car -- the road had ended and that her car had stopped.
It made us to believe that she had hit a tree.
PINSKY: And, did they talk about her becoming violent or somehow rushing at them?
TERRY BOARTS: No, no. We sat there for three hours believing that her car had hit a tree.
PINSKY: And, when you called 911 before the police went in pursuit, what did you tell the operator?
TERRY BOARTS: I called 911 when we found out she had stopped at the rest area. We thought she had stopped there, that she was going to slit
her wrists. And, I was on the phone with 911 the whole time even after they told us that her car had stopped and made us believe that she had
crashed her car. They said the road had come to an end.
PINSKY: So, you called 911 --
TERRY BOARTS: I never got off the phone with 911.
PINSKY: You called 911. You were following your daughter who had threatened suicide and you were with 911. The police go in pursuit. And,
Michael, the police say she charged at them with a weapon. What are they talking about?
MICHAEL BOARTS, MELISSA BOARTS` FATHER: I do not know. We were not actually where we could see what happened. They made us stop at the
beginning of the dirt road that she went down where the car actually stopped.
I do not know what -- you know like I said, I was not there. I did not see it. So, as far as her charging after them, I do not understand
that, because I cannot see her doing that.
PINSKY: Melinda, let me ask you. Growing up or even more recently did she ever scare you? Did she ever seem like an aggressive or violent
person? Did she ever threaten suicide?
MCPHILLIPS: Dr. Drew, let me insert for a moment. She is not wired because she did not want to speak.
PINSKY: OK.
MCPHILLIPS: She is much too emotional about all this.
PINSKY: I understand.
MCPHILLIPS: My name is McPhillips by the way.
PINSKY: Mack, I totally understand. I thought she was there because she want to be apart of this, but I completely respect her decision. I
will allow you to answer that, Mack.
MCPHILLIPS: Well, thank you. It is Julian McPhillips. And, anyway, let me just say this. Being charged by her 5`4" identical twin sister, 130
pounds is like being charged by a mouse. There was no good reason for them to shoot and kill her with a gun.
If he had a pocket knife on her, I mean it is no real danger. These policemen often have vested to protect them. And, they could have used
mace. They could use a taser. They could use a Billy club, anything. They did not have to shoot to kill her.
PINSKY: Julian --
MCPHILLIPS: That is what so absurd about it.
PINSKY: Julian. Yes. Listen, I had a patient once that was a bipolar patient, ran out of the hospital. He was on the threshold of the
hospital. I called police, because I was afraid she is going to ran at the police. They shot her at the door of the hospital. And, I have seen this
happened. So, I understand.
But my question, Julian, this is a tough question. This is a tough question. This is the one I want you to sort of bear into a little bit. I
heard you in your commentary in the tape we played, where I think you were thinking about this when you said she never went all the way with a suicide
attempt or she was not thinking about going all the way. Was there anyone who said that this was suicide by cops?
MCPHILLIPS: Well, no. I do not think anybody in the family would have ever said that. And, I do not believe it was. In fact, her mother
was concerned about her maybe being suicidal. She was depressed, maybe off her medication a little bit.
But she had gone 36 years and had a lot of productive years, productive life, had a boyfriend, had a two-year-old daughter. She had had
good job. She was a functioning person.
PINSKY: And, let me say, Julian, my read of what happened was, she was probably not depressed. A little secret about bipolar patients is they
are actually more likely to become suicidal when they are manic.
And, so it sounded like she got agitated and manic and that is probably why she was kind of scary to everybody. But, for God sakes cannot
we -- I mean Leo can we train our cops to deal with people with mental illness? It is not common. It is a big deal.
[19:40:00] TERRELL: Yes. If the family told the dispatcher that she had a mental disorder, where is the psych team? And, just because there is
a weapon involved, that does not mean the officers have to shoot.
There is a magic phrase officers use, "Fearing for my life, I shoot." And, that is the way they get off all the time. And, I can understand why
this family is upset. There is alternative measures like a taser, like the tad, like --
PINSKY: Well, I am going to get John Cardillo in here to address this, but right now. I am going to show you a little footage of the police
chief, who says his officers were justified. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF PAUL REGISTER, AUBURN POLICE DEPT.: These are officers that have been here many years and faced difficult situations before. And, I am
confident and comfortable with, you know, their response to what they faced.
When someone wants to harm themselves and uses law enforcement as a means to do that, it is a tragedy for that family and our thoughts and
prayers are with that family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: See, AnneElise, I think he is tilting towards what I was talking about.
GOETZ: Yes. His point is exactly what you were going toward.
PINSKY: Yes.
GOETZ: She was suicidal. And, the problem here, of course, is that we do not really know what happened. So, this is not one of those cases we
have had so often on the show, where we have the dash cam, where we have some kind of a video proof.
And, all we are left with is the officers saying, "We feared for our life like Leo said. We had to protect ourselves or others. It is just
hard to imagine as a rational people that you felt that way with a knife.
PINSKY: All right. And, a little woman, a little lady. It would be like you rushing at me with something.
CARRERO: But, nonetheless she had a weapon. And, that is what the police are there to do.
PINSKY: OK.
CARRERO: They are there to protect us.
PINSKY: All right. Well, I am going to bring in somebody to back you up, Roseny, which is John Cardillo, who I know will back up the police,
because he always does. So, we will keep this going on. I want to hear more from the family too.
And, later, I have got two angry men, a go pro camera and some very, very fast vehicles. I will tell you how this thing ends when we come back.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (voice-over): Melissa Boarts` mother called 911 to report that her 36-year-old daughter was behind the wheel and
possibly a danger to herself. Auburn`s police chief says when she exited her car, she charged the officers with a weapon in a threatening manner,
forcing those officers to fire. She died at the scene.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF REGISTER: I am very confident and comfortable with their response to what they faced.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCPHILLIPS: At most, it was a pocket knife and she was no threat to any of them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Two officers are on paid leave after shooting and killing Melissa Boarts. Her parents have called 911 because they feared she was
contemplating self-harm. Police say they were forced to fire because Melissa charged at them with a weapon. Back with Roseny, AnneElise, Leo.
I have also Melissa`s parents, her twin sister and their lawyer.
Joining me also is John Cardillo, former NYPD Police Officer, syndicated radio host. John, come on now. Could not the cops, a
diminutive woman with history of mental illness, you have all the information coming in from the parents, she charges with some sort of
weapon, could not you have used something other than lethal force.
JOHN CARDILLO, FORMER NYPD POLICE OFFICER: Well, first, obviously all of our condolences go out to the Boarts` family. It is heartbreaking. I
could look at the monitor and see they are distraught. And, so, I say this clinically. Let us not lull ourselves into believing that a pocket knife
is not dangerous.
Remember, the 9/11 hijackers took over airliners with box cutters with half inch blades. A small edge weapon is very dangerous, very deadly.
Now, they were confronted by an armed suspect. Like I said, let us not get hung up on the size of the weapon.
And, I spoke to Alabama law enforcement sources today. Auburn PD is a restrained department. Very few complaints, very few use of force
incidents. State investigators, even federal told me this is a good agency.
And, so, it appears the officers felt a very real threat. And, Dr. Drew, I am leaning toward what you speculated, suicide by cop here. Again,
this is a tragedy. And, we all wish it did not happen, but we cannot hang these cops out to dry until the investigation is complete.
PINSKY: All right, John, let me get to her attorney to respond to that. Julian go ahead.
MCPHILLIPS: Thanks. Let me rebut completely any notion it was suicide by cop. And, it absolutely was not. It was the parents who
called, not the young lady who called. She was again so small at 5`4", 130 pounds. And, there were other police officers there, not just the Auburn
police. There was the Macon County Sheriff`s Department. There were others.
And, so, these two guys were not in any danger or harm, not in the least. They need to release their body cams and their cash cams. We have
called upon them to release it, but they are hiding behind their badges.
PINSKY: That is interesting.
MCPHILLIPS: They are hiding behind badges. They are circling their wagons like the old Indian days. They are concerned only about themselves.
PINSKY: So, there will be documentation. My attorneys here were very interested that, that might be the case. So, that will be very revealing
when we get to that. Listen, I noticed during the break you guys were micing up Melinda, the twin sister of the victim.
Melinda -- Listen, this just happened three days ago. It must take tremendous courage for you guys to sit there today. But, I saw them micing
you up during the break and I thought maybe you wanted to say something, so I wanted to give you a chance.
MELINDA BOARTS, MELISSA BOARTS`TWIN SISTER: Yes. I wanted to because there is things y ou all were saying that are not correct. But, it is a
good thing I was not mic`d. I am good.
MCPHILLIPS: She is the identical twin sister. It was because of her that the parents knew where the sister was. She had a GPS and told her
parents where she was. They called 911, told 911 how the daughter is. And, the police were well informed. It is not like they were confronting
some dangerous 911 suspect, you know, from 9/11. That is what I mean. They knew and should have known.
PINSKY: Yes --
MELINDA BOARTS: I am the one that told the cops exactly where she was at.
[19:50:00] PINSKY: And, listen, Melinda, I hope what you are saying, what is embedded in what you are saying there is not some kind of guilt or
feeling or responsibility. You were trying to help your sister. You were doing what was right. And, I understand it went very, very wrong.
MELINDA BOARTS: I feel like we should not have called the cops. I will never call the cops again for anything.
MCPHILLIPS: We have had an outbreak of this around here. Montgomery, Alexander City Police had been shooting and killing people. This time was
a young white female. Usually it is a young African-American male, but it is much too much as an epidemic and it has got to stop.
PINSKY: Julian, I am sympathetic to everything you are saying here, but I am worried about Melinda, and my dear, please do not feel
responsible. You did the right thing. As a clinician, if you had called your doctor beforehand we would have told you to do the same thing. This
is something bigger than any of us, and I am just so sorry it happened to your sister.
MELINDA BOARTS: Thank you.
PINSKY: OK.
MCPHILLIPS: Well, Thank you, I hope you can spread the gospel, that we have to get police officers better trained. The city of Auburn is not -
- big university there. And, they are proud of their past record, but a couple guys just were not trained right to deal with the mental health
issues. And, we see much of that around --
PINSKY: Well, Julian, you are singing the choir with me as it pertains to the mental illness issue and psychiatric disorders not being
properly schooled for the police force. I report it here all the time, and it is stunning to me, because it is easy. It is not that hard. It is not
that hard to recognize it, identify it, or refer it in different ways, deal with it in different ways.
And guess what, it works when you deal with it a little different. Listen, our condolences. I appreciate you being here with us today. And,
good luck with this. I hope you have lots of good support around you, and there is no words I can say that will make any of this OK or diminish your
loss. But, I do appreciate you speaking up about this.
MICHAEL BOARTS: Thank you.
PINSKY: Next up, I have something completely different it is a go pro -- here it is. It is a road rage. What do we do with this problem now?
That is up next.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: An intense case of road rage. Two drivers putting themselves and others at risk. Speeding over 90 miles per
hour. And, at one point driving in the opposite lane of traffic.
It started at the intersection when he rode between two lanes and stopped in front of a pack of drivers. When the light turned green,
Gonzales and the driver of a Fusion engaged in a dangerous game of cat and mouse. Hand gestures were exchanged. Gonzalez smacks the driver`s mirror
and zooms off.
The 23-year-old says, he tried to get away, driving into the opposite lane of traffic for almost a minute. More words are then exchanged, the
other driver with his body partially out of the car window spits at Gonzalez. And, apparently tries to hit the biker back. But, Gonzalez
manages to get away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RONE GONZALEZ, MOTORCYCLE DRIVER WHO WAS INVOLVED IN THE ROAD RAGE: I was like, "Man, I am on a motorcycle. My life is literally in your
hands."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Both drivers, though, were arrested, just released from police custody. The motorcycle on the right, the car driver on the left.
Earlier this week, a reporter spoke to the motorcyclist about something we talk about all the time. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED WSVN MALE REPORTER: You know how crazy people can be in South Florida, why are you hitting the guy`s mirror?
GONZALEZ: To be honest, I was -- I do not know.
UNIDENTIFIED WSVN MALE REPORTER: It was a stupid move.
GONZALEZ: To be honest, it was a stupid move.
UNIDENTIFIED WSVN MALE REPORTER: Stupid.
GONZALEZ: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Roseny and AnneElise, Leo, John. John, again Florida, the Florida again? Is that are not you going to get out of there?
I mean I love Florida. I love Floridians, but every bad story comes out in Florida.
(LAUGHING)
CARDILLO: I do have a segment every Friday on my radio show called "Florida Man." Look, this is South Florida. I owned the car in Manhattan.
When I moved to South Florida, Miami, my insurance went up. The insurance guy laughed at me.
This is an every day occurrence here. This is not even new. That area, Homestead, you can see by the video, it is farmland on one side and
the everglades on the other, long roads with a whole lot of nothing. And, this is a typical day for drivers down here.
PINSKY: My understanding is if you call police, they will not even respond to road rage, right? Is that true, John? They sort of like, "As
long as no one is hurt and nothing has been destroyed, they will not respond?
CARDILLO: Yes. Yes. It is true and, especially in homestead. Homestead is a reared area. It is agricultural in one aspect, but high
crime in another. A lot of the farm workers, legal and illegal who come from Latin and South America have brought the gangs with them, MS-13, The
Latin Kings.
PINSKY: Oh boy.
CARDILLO: So, they have a lot of violent crime in the area and they tend not to respond to road rage incidents where there were no injuries.
PINSKY: AnneElise, this kid was wearing a go-pro camera, and he has posted this thing online. It is making money, getting hits. Do you think,
there were some premeditation in any of this?
CARDILLO: If there was, he is an idiot. I mean there are now criminal charges. And, he is lucky to be alive right now. Come on. He is
lucky that he did not kill somebody. You see him going against traffic? I hate him.
PINSKY: I know.
CARDILLO: I hate him and I hate that driver.
PINSKY: I have seen Leo wearing a go pro around town.
TERRELL: Right. AnneElise is right. He is not crazy, he is a fool.
PINSKY: Yes.
TERRELL: I will tell you why. This is Godzilla versus a Tweety bird.
PINSKY: Yes.
TERRELL: A car versus a motorcycle? You would let your life at risk against a car with your body exposed. You are crazy.
PINSKY: And, not only that, but Roseny, he hit the car. It is a strange provocative thing to do.
CARRERO: Yes. If you are going to poke me, I am going to poke back. I would have done much worse, I would have run him over with a car.
TERRELL: No, you would not. I could represent you.
PINSKY: John Cardillo, I need your help with this guests. Like I said, Leo, you will be defending her.
TERRELL: Yes, I have to defend her. That is the problem.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: I am just saying. All right, listen, great job you guys. I appreciate you being here. Please DVR this show and then watch it any
time, preferably within three days of the DVR taping. That is the way it goes. I do appreciate you all watching the show.
I appreciate our panelists and their contributions. John, thank you. Our thoughts and prayers, of course, go out to the family who lost that
young lady with bipolar disorder. We will keep an eye on the case. We will look for those body cams. Nancy case is next.
[20:00:00] (MUSIC PLAYING)
(END)
END
