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Dr. Drew
New Information About A Teen Charged In The Shocking Death Of A College Freshman; Meechaiel Criner`s Sister Still Insists He Is Innocent; Mother Arrested For A Violent Teen Catfight That She Encourages; Hot Car Dad Is Finally On Trial. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired April 11, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[19:00:14] DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST OF "DR. DREW" SHOW (voice-over): Tonight, mental illness and murder. We have new information about a teen
charged in the shocking death of a college freshman. The suspect`s family is speaking out about his troubled childhood.
Plus, good mom or bad mom? She is accused of encouraging her daughter to fight and then driving there and egging her on.
And hot car dad is finally on trial. Police say the man -- married man sexted multiple women, distracted while his baby baked to death in the back
seat. Let us get started.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
PINSKY: A homeless teen with an apparent history of mental illness is in custody charged with the murder of a University of Texas freshman. Her
body found dumped in a creek. The suspect`s sister still insists he is innocent. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST OF "NANCY GRACE" PROGRAM: The female body found dead on the University of Texas campus has been identified.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: There has been an arrest in the murder of this beautiful young lady, Haruka Weiser.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ART ACEVEDO, AUSTIN CHIEF POLICE: For he was determined to be a homeless 17-year-old young man.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: This was the first photo released after Meechaiel Criner`s arrest, shoeless and in handcuffs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF ACEVEDO: We are very certain that the suspect we have in custody is the suspect responsible for the death of this beautiful young woman.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Meechaiel is one of five siblings, born to a drug addict mother, who eventually committed suicide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Mary also tells us her grandson has received psychiatric help since he was a child.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF ACEVEDO: But we do not know what the actual motive was.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED SISTER OF MEECHAIEL CRINER: I am deeply sorry, but I assure you that my brother Meechaiel did not do this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joining me, Sara Azari, Defense Attorney; Loni Coombs, former prosecutor, author of "Your Perfect and Other Lies Parents Tell; Kurt
Schlichter, Attorney, author of "Conservative Insurgency" and joining us on the phone, Emily Trube, Reporter with KRLD, BS Radio in Dallas. So, tell
me what evidence do the police have that makes them so certain, Emily, that this is the guy?
EMILY TRUBE, REPORTER, CBS RADIO DALLAS, TX: And, largely it is coming from the surveillance video and the fact that he had Haruka Weiser`s
belongings in his custody when police went to pick him up at a homeless shelter. The video was released very early on.
They identified the person seen in the video at first as a person of interest. They were looking for him, but not necessarily saying why. He
can be seen with a bicycle in the video that was released initially.
And, now, what police are saying is that if you look at the video, you can see this person who has been identified as Meechaiel Criner watching Haruka
as she walks by, pulling something from his pocket. They say it looks shiny, following her and then he is seen on the video again two hours later
appearing to be limping and holding a duffel bag.
Fire fighters were called the next day to a fire in an alley nearby. And, they took Criner to a homeless shelter. And, then, later on, folks put two
and two together, this might be the guy who was in the video. They went to the homeless shelter. Police picked him up and they found that he had
items.
They said earlier this week they believed belonged to the victim. And, so that is largely the evidence. The police have not necessarily come forward
with information about whether there may be DNA evidence or physical evidence.
They are saying that there is no reason to think that Criner knew Weiser. There are still a lot of questions. And, it is usually somewhat difficult
to tell at this stage if police are with holding information for their investigation or if they do not know.
PINSKY: OK, Emily, thank you very much for that report. And, Sara, the police say they are certain this is the right person. Are you certain?
SARA AZARI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No. They cannot be certain. There are so many holes and blanks to be filled here. OK? Just because somebody is at
or near a crime scene does not mean that they were the perpetrator of that crime. Where is the DNA evidence? Where is the motive?
PINSKY: They may have that, right?
AZARI: They may have that, but at this time we do not know if it exists and what that is. And, we know that she was assaulted, but we do not know
how she was assaulted. So, what is the murder weapon? There is some shiny thing that they see him waving, but is that even a weapon? You know, we do
not know what it is.
So, there are a lot of questions, I think that need to be answered before you can say with certainty that he may have murdered her. And, then also
Dr. Drew, you know, they are trying to make this to be in my mind, some sort of a robbery-murder. And, if he actually took her duffel bag and
property, then why would he burn it? It is baffling to me.
[19:05:10] PINSKY: Kurt?
KURT SCHLICHTER, ATTORNEY: Well, look, this guy -- Look, the evidence is pretty damning if what the reporter just said is true. You have got him on
video. You got him following the woman. You have him with her stuff.
I think that a Texas jury is going to look at this and send this guy away just on what we have now, but there is going to be more. We are going to
have forensic evidence from the body. And, this guy, as we know, probably, will give a confession.
PINSKY: As we know?
SCHLICHTER: These guys always talk to the cops.
AZARI: Because he is slow and they are going to get a forced confession from him because he is delayed?
SCHLICHTER: What forced? Forced? Delayed? How do we know he is delayed?
AZARI: Look, look --
SCHLICHTER: We know he has psychological problems, but --
AZARI: When he speaks you can tell there is something wrong.
SCHLICHTER: I had a chat with the detectives --
PINSKY: Let us address these psychiatric problems. The grandmother says he is mentally ill. He is prone to rages. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARY WADLEY, MEECHAIEL CRINER`S GRANDMOTHER: If you made him mad, he snapped. His temper would snap real fast. And, even the school knew about
it. They tried to work with him to make sure the kids did not bother him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And, some media reports, Loni, have said schizophrenia, autism.
LONI COOMBS, ATTORNEY: Right.
PINSKY: My thing is -- and then these rages. I do not know what that is all about but he is not accepting treatment and ended up on the streets.
COOMBS: Well, and the grandmother was to blame for a lot of that. There were police reports that she was beating him badly and he was running away
from her and her abusive treatments. So, for her to turn around and call him violent, I found somewhat suspective --
PINSKY: But, is it possible -- and I am not making excuses for her behavior, but is it possible this kid was so difficult that she resorted to
these extraordinary means? You what I am saying?
COOMBS: Right.
PINSKY: I mean it takes two. I am not blaming the victim in this case, but maybe this kid was really a behavior problem and then grandma snapped
herself.
COOMBS: Well, I do not know, at 10 years old he was beaten so badly his eyes were swollen shut. I do not know about that, you know.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: I do. It is not OK.
COOMBS: Yes. Yes.
AZARI: She beaten up her sister as well.
PINSKY: He beaten up the sister?
AZARI: No. The grandmother had beaten up the sister as well.
PINSKY: Yes.
AZARI: So, she is an equal opportunity abuser.
COOMBS: But, sadly he is with the grandmother because the mother was not - - she had her own issues.
PINSKY: Well, she actually ended up in foster care after the grandmother because of these alleged beatings. Kurt, what is that?
SCHLICHTER: You know, this kind of thing happens a lot, where you have some kid who suffered pretty terrible beating. Look, back in my early
career as lawyer, my firm was defending a death row guy. And, we succeeded.
I believe he is still alive, but the trauma that this kid went through. Now, without talking about his crimes later, it was unbelievable. And,
this sort of thing does lead people to hurt other people.
PINSKY: Absolutely.
SCHLICHTER: I mean, it bears repeating. Part of the solution is stopping this kind of animalistic behavior towards kids.
PINSKY: 100 percent that the physically abusing children, teaching kid that violence and aggression is the way to deal with anything, encourages
them to do the same and it increases the probability of all kinds of psychological and psychiatric problems.
Now, in this case, if this kid is also schizophrenic, which is not related to those beatings, he is allowed to go on the street and not take
medication and be somebody prone to rages. I got more from the family.
And, later, I have got a mother who is arrested for a violent teen catfight that she encourages. There it is. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: The body of a young woman in her 20s found in this creek behind the alumni building.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF ACEVEDO: Unfortunately, we know that there are monsters in society that would do us harm.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF ACEVEDO: Meechaiel Criner has been booked to Travis Count Jail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are obtaining grainy video of who may be the suspect.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Showing a man police say is Meechaiel Criner riding his bike first with one backpack, then later on with a second bag.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Meechaiel is mentally ill. He was in foster care, but a run away according to the state when the murder happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WADLEY: CPS supposed to have been had him case they say he was not 18 yet.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Chilling surveillance video shows a man watching, then following the 18-year-old college student. The man in that video is a 17-year-old
homeless teen. He is now been charged with murdering that young woman. Back with Sara, Loni and Kurt.
I want to say something to my Twitter followers, "Hey, shame on you. Stop shaming on you." Look, we are shaming on you for not listening to us. We
were not saying it is OK for the grandmother to beat the kid. We were trying to understand how problematic the behavior is in this kid and what
would have motivated the grandmother.
Nothing OK about what she did. We went on for three minutes about how violence begets violence. So, shame on you. Listen to us. Listen to what
we are saying before you act out on Twitter. I am sick and tired of Twitter. I am so sick of it. What?
(LAUGHING)
SCHLICHTER: I cannot believe you think people on social media get things wrong.
PINSKY: Just listen to what we are saying. We are trying to understand how disturbed the behavior this kid had before the beating and then the
beating made things worse. Of course, that is what we are saying. Shame on you! So -- And, then foster care on top of that, Loni, who knows what
the hell he went through in there.
COOMBS: Yes. It was said, because he was actually sticking up for his grandmother, saying that she was the wonderful person in her life. We know
how badly she was beating him.
PINSKY: Well, but understand, people identify with the perp sometimes --
COOMBS: Right, that is true though.
PINSKY: -- they defend the perpetrator particularly when it comes to disciplining kids with physical violence.
COOMBS: Yes. Yes.
PINSKY: Child Department of Protective Services took Meechaiel and the siblings away from his mother, four other siblings because they were living
in a house with no food, no water, no gas. They go to the grandmother. She physically abuses the, then in and out of foster care and then out to
the streets. But, Kurt, the mom has to have five kids?
(LAUGHING)
SCHLICHTER: The mom has to have five kids? --
PINSKY: That is the part -- That mom is where this all starts, right?
SCHLICHTER: Well, absolutely, Dr. Drew
PINSKY: Maybe the grandma, maybe the grandma was beating the mom too and maybe that is what set the mom off spiraling.
SCHLICHTER: Am I wrong to ask where the father was?
(LAUGHING)
[19:15:00] AZARI: Good question.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHLICHTER: Come on, all of us --
COOMBS: Yes, we all blame the mom.
SCHLICHTER: Look, there is a social pathology going on here. The family unit is falling apart. Look, all families are certainly not great.
Sometimes you have a mom and a dad who are both bad. But, you know, if you want to give the kid the best shot, you have a mom, you have a dad. They
are not doing drugs. They are taking care of their kids and they are not beating the hell out of them. Is that that much to ask?
AZARI: But, the mom here was a drug addict. I mean sometimes you have one parent, who is much better than having two bad parents.
PINSKY: Sara --
AZARI: But, here --
PINSKY: Sara, you are making my point, which is we have a kid with mental illness. We have a mom with mental illness. Cannot we do a better job on
behalf of these people? Because that is my point, is the mom has five kids, she does not want her five kids. She ends up with five kids. She is
a drug addict out of control. Why cannot we get treatment for people like that? And, they end where? With you guys. They end up with the legal
system.
COOMBS: That is exactly right.
PINSKY: They end up with the cops.
COOMBS: That is right.
PINSKY: They end up with the law enforcement.
COOMBS: That is right.
PINSKY: They end up in prison. And, by the way, at a certain point, that is the only thing we can do if we do not treat people earlier.
COOMBS: That is right. And, honestly, Dr. Drew, now, finally, the justice system is catching onto this and they are starting to breakdown the
resources and to think --
PINSKY: Barely.
AZARI: Barely.
COOMBS: But, Dr. Drew, let me say this. It is not really their fault. It should be being administered earlier than before they commit the crimes. I
mean, as a stopgap afterwards, it is too late. Somebody is dead as in this case.
AZARI: I agree with Loni, because by the time they get to the criminal justice system and the court is addressing the drug addiction or whatever
the addiction there is, through some kind of a court county program, those programs are nothing. It is an hour-week outpatient.
PINSKY: They are nothing and these are people that need multi-year with highly intensive very labor, very expensive long-term kinds of things.
Absolutely right. But, the world, you know, every time I talk about this on television in front of our audience here, they always go, "I do not want
to hear any excuses, because they have now committed a crime and I agree with that. Once the crime is committed, it is too late at that point.
SCHLICHTER: Exactly, we are not talking about excuse in a crime. Look, I am a conservative guy. I think there are about five things government
should do. But one of the things it should do is provide a safe environment.
And, that means taking people off the street, who are dangerous because of mental illness. It does not say anything good about us as an enlightened
society when we allow some homeless guy to be screaming at clouds on a street corner.
PINSKY: Yes. But, by the way --
COOMBS: Dr. Drew, it starts with addressing these kids.
PINSKY: Or the family, yes.
COOMBS: I mean these kids are -- that is exactly right.
PINSKY: I know, but age 8 is -- By age ten certainly is where we have to hit that window. But, to Kurt`s point, if there is some means, where we
can require people to take their treatment, they will not be out on the street yelling at the birds. They will want to take care of themselves
because the treatment works.
SCHLICHTER: I think one of the greatest mistakes we have made in the country in the last half century was deinstitutionalization, because
institutionalization in itself is not necessarily bad. It is not the answer for everybody. But, you know, Drew, it is the answer for many
people. Many people who are out there who are hurting themselves, who are hurting others.
PINSKY: I think at some point -- again, you, guys, are the attorneys, but at some point, the needs of the community have to be considered as opposed
to merely the needs of the individual. But, it is like the limits of freedom are being pushed here.
COOMBS: People do not realize is that it all goes together. It all goes together. I mean addressing the individuals, you have to work with
everybody -- you know, all together. It is not one or the other. They work together to make --
PINSKY: I know what you mean. You mean earlier on, we need to --
COOMBS: Earlier on. That is right.
PINSKY: Yes.
COOMBS: And, you are talking about punishing the one individual, putting him in prison. Well, if you start with getting the mental health to
people, to families, then there will be less hard to do. Later on, there will be less criminals. There will be less crimes. There will be less
dead people.
PINSKY: All right, speaking of moms here, we are going to show you a mother who drives her own daughter to a fistfight and then really
encourages her. Yes, that is right. You hear the mom at one call.
And, later, hot car dad. Again, now, the dad of the year. We will get to that. We will tell you what happened today in court. He is finally on
trial. We are back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: You can hear this teens mother cheering her on in the background. `
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MOTHER: Get her! (EXPLETIVE WORD) Get her! (EXPLETIVE WORD) Grab her by the neck!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: The Florida mom actually drove her daughter to fight the girl, who she says was sending her unwanted texts. Despite
police intervention, did they do enough or is mom to blame?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Well, the mom was arrested and charged with child abuse, disorderly conduct and contributing to the delinquency of a minor. Back
with Sara, Loni and Kurt. So, Sara, the mom did go to the cops first apparently or she told them that there was trouble. This girl was bullying
online. There was cyber bullying. What should the cops have done?
AZARI: You know -- OK, here is the deal. The mom is definitely in the wrong here. She should have not taken the law in her own hands no matter
what.
PINSKY: So, slow down. It is not OK to take a teenager to another teenager and have them grab them by the neck and try to slam them?
AZARI: Even according to Sara Azari.
PINSKY: Even Sara Azari. Yes.
(LAUGHING)
AZARI: But you know what?
PINSKY: This is anything and everybody --
AZARI: But, you know what, these cops are absolutely responsible. They should have at a minimum helped her get a restraining order. Bullying even
in a state that is not a crime or bullying is not a crime, it is a very serious offense. People commit suicide over being bullied.
PINSKY: All right. Loni.
AZARI: They commit --
PINSKY: Hold on.
COOMBS: I actually -- I actually --
AZARI: These cops supposed to come every day and say, "Hey, are you OK? Is everything OK?"
COOMBS: You make it sound like that is nothing. This cop actually got involved. First, of all --
PINSKY: They came back four times.
COOMBS: Yes. Every day went to this mother`s work and said, "Hey, how is it going?" The cop did leave a message for the suspect and said, "Hey, I
want to talk to you about this. The suspect did not call him back, but the cop went everyday.
And, the mother was telling the police officer it stopped, it is over with. So, how could the officer know that more needed to be done? It was not
until the third -- I think third day that the police officer went and the mother goes, "Oh, do not worry about it, I took care of it."
[19:25:00] The cops like, "What are you talking about?" She said, "Well, during the day today something else happened and instead of letting you,
police officer, know who is being so careful to take care of me, I decided to take things into my own hands and I took my daughter to the fight."
PINSKY: Did not she say, "Look?"
COOMBS: Yes.
PINSKY: She shows the video?
(LAUGHING)
COOMBS: She is pushing the other girl off the hook.
PINSKY: Well, let me bring in a spokesperson for the Port St. Lucie Police Department, Sergeant Sabol. Now, sergeant, thank you for joining us. This
mom told officers that everything was fine. What could your officers have done?
SGT. FRANK SABOL, PORT ST. LUCIE POLICE DEPARTMENT (via phone): Well, basically, what happened is it was just the text messaging between the two
teenagers, both sides had called the police. So, we had spoken to both parties involved here. The officer did exactly what he should have done.
He called the person that was making the other texts and he, you know, kept checking in with the mother to make sure everything was fine, that it did
not escalate, that it was not turned into a physical altercation and it was not even more threatening or the bullying had escalated.
PINSKY: Sergeant, can you tell us --
SGT. SABOL: I think the officer did a great job here.
PINSKY: Half of my panel agrees with you.
COOMBS: I agree.
PINSKY: So, three-quarters of my panel agrees with you. But, sergeant, can you tell us about the nature of the texts? What the content was?
SGT. SABOL: They were texting profanities and name calling back and forth. It was not a threatening manner because we would have looked at that even
more seriously. If you send an electronic message threatening somebody, it kind of elevates the crime here in Florida. There was none of that. It
was more bantering back and forth and name calling. And, it was just between the two teenagers that just needed to stop.
PINSKY: So, in other words -- go ahead, please.
AZARI: Yes. Officer, why would not you -- when this mother and this daughter came to the police station to make a report, even though it is not
elevated to making to, you know, criminal threats of some sort, let us say, but definitely the daughter felt threatened by this.
She felt harassed by this and she felt bullied by this. So, at that point, why did not the officers at the front desk of your station at least help
these people get some kind of a protective order so that this woman is legally stopped by court order?
SGT. SABOL: Actually, this all stems from the other party calling the police first and saying that the mother that was arrested, her daughter
was, you know, harassing the other person. And, so, in response to that, she spoke to us and said that she wanted her to stop texting. So, it was
mutual between the two.
PINSKY: And, sergeant --
SGT. SABOL: I do not know if you could somewhat place blame one place or the other, but law enforcement intervention was appropriate in this case.
Both parties were spoken to. And, if she would have just given it a little bit more time to let us, make contact with the mother of the other party
again and say this is what the defendant`s daughter was feeling.
PINSKY: Well, it sounds like the police did quite a bit of work. Were they anticipated something? Did they have a bad feeling about this?
SGT. SABOL: Absolutely not. The officer who took the report, he was just on his duties on the beat, just checking in with the businesses. And, one
of them happened to be where this mother worked. And, he would check in with her because of this case more frequently.
And, when he did, all three times she said that everything was taken care of. She did not say, "Hey, it is elevating to this." "You know, I am
planning on taking my daughter to the park to fight." You know, she did not say anything like that.
(LAUGHING)
COOMBS: "I will videotape it for you."
PINSKY: Thank you sergeant. I appreciate your report. But, Kurt, we are laughing at this, but it is not much different -- well, it is actually
strangely more provocative to show the video.
COOMBS: Yes.
PINSKY: It is almost --
SCHLICHTER: Look. Look --
AZARI: It is like nanny, nanny, boo, boo, I did your job.
SCHLICHTER: Is Walmart dueling idiot is no criminal genius, Drew?
PINSKY: Is she a criminal, though?
SCHLICHTER: Yes, kind of, but she is mostly an idiot. There are a couple of things you do not do as a parent, which is haul your kids someplace and
go, "Hey, catfight!" No! OK? We can all draw that line. Look, I do not mind if kids get into a brawl in a playground. I got in fights in
playground, I am sure you did, because you are very, very annoying sometimes.
COOMBS: But, parents involved, encouraging to fight?
LSCHLICHTER: Well, look, kids should fight. There is nothing wrong with being in a fistfight.
COOMBS: I disagree with that.
SCHLICHTER: As a kid. As an adult, you are supposed to move on beyond that and not do violence unless you absolutely have to. This woman is so
misguided and so stupid that it is actually stunning that this oxygen thief is probably allowed to vote.
PINSKY: OK. Loni, finish it up.
COOMBS: I think you have to take this seriously. I think it was right to charge this mother. We are always talking about parenting and families.
AZARI: Right.
COOMBS: This is where it starts.
PINSKY: OK. So, that is my question. What do you call think? Is this somebody who is just misguided or is she actually a criminal? Are we
wasting our time and resources on criminalizing her? You will hear a 911 call when we get back.
[19:30:00] And, later, hot car dad, maybe -- maybe, we could put him together with Casey Anthony, because he could be the most hated father in
America with the most hated mother in America. His murder trial is underway. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE CALLER: Yes, I need a police officer here at Sportsman`s Park, right in front of the park. We got a big fight going on?
UNIDENTIFIED 911 FEMALE OPERATOR: How many people?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE CALLER: Two people. There is like a whole crowd of teenagers and an adult -- looks like an adult.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 FEMALE OPERATOR: OK. So, it is a teenager and an adult?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE CALLER: Yes, looks like it. They are all walking out of the park now. They are going to like the parking lot right now. They are
still arguing, fighting.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 FEMALE OPERATOR: Physically fighting or verbally fighting?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE CALLER: Huh?
UNIDENTIFIED 911 FEMALE OPERATOR: Physically or verbally?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE CALLER: No. They were fist fighting.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
[19:35:02] PINSKY: Well, Florida continues to be the gift that keeps on giving for these intriguing stories. This Floridian mom caught on camera
helping her daughter fight a bully. Back with Sara, Loni and Kurt. And, joining me, Lisa Strohman. She is an attorney and a clinical psychologist.
Now, the mom told the local reporters, quote, "I wanted to be sure nobody else jumped in." What? Meaning -- standing by to make sure --
SCHLICHTER: Is this the octagon?
PINSKY: Right. Exactly. Mom is the octagon.
SCHLICHTER: Tap out.
PINSKY: I do not know. She also said that the only way -- when asked why she did not resolve this issue with the girls` school, she allegedly
replied, quote, "This was the only way to solve the problem." So, Dr. Lisa Strohman, that is why I brought you in here. How should parents manage
online bullying?
LISA STROHMAN, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: This would be a perfect example of how not to do it. But, you have -- there really is a difference between
the legal structure if it is going to be like internet crimes against children and law enforcement and the school.
And, I recommend always both, because often there is different statutes. And, schools have very strong rules against it. So, the mom should have
went to the school, because they actually are with federal dollars are required to actually respond to these things.
PINSKY: Lisa, now, you are a big proponent of parents really controlling the electronic media. I mean they should not even have access necessarily
-- free access to these electronic instruments, right?
STROHMAN: Absolutely. This is not how you empower your kids to manage their own situation. I mean, you do not tell them to take it offline for
this purpose, right? You know, turn off the phone. If you are not on social media, you are not getting the negative messages. It is not going
to escalate.
PINSKYL: Now, you have been pressing me with how bad the problem is. Help my audience here at HLN understand how bad is this preoccupation with
electronic media that our next generation is coming up with.
STROHMAN: At this point, I would say that the statistics show that we have got about 95 percent of kids that are connected at any given time. Almost
84 percent of those are on smart phones, when we are talking middle school to high school.
PINSKY: How many hours a day?
STROHMAN: 11 hours a day on average.
PINSKY: 11 hours a day. 11 hours a day on average. Loni, you are moved by that.
COOMBS: Yes. And, Lisa, I have a question for you. You know, it seems so simple, just tell the kids or take the phones away from them. And, yet,
you hear these numbers like is it possible when you work with these parents will they consider -- will the kids follow it or is everyone just too
addicted to their phones that they cannot just unhook from them.
PINSKY: Yes and yes.
(LAUGHING)
STROHMAN: Yes. That is really a difficult question. I mean, unplugging is the biggest problem that I have and convincing parents that it is
healthy for everybody, I do in baby steps. We do a tech free Tuesday in our house. I mean we do things that -- and I show by examples on the
things that I am doing and give examples for parents on the fact that you still have control. You are the one who gets to make these decisions.
PINSKY: Sara.
AZARI: Lisa, what about before you even unplug or restrict the kids` access, specifically in this case, what if she had just blocked the
messages, blocked the text messages, which you can do on an iPhone. I assume you can do it on other phones. Block the social media profiles from
being able to --
PINSKY: But, remember, this girl was also a perpetrator of the aggression, right? It was going all kinds of directions. Everybody was involved.
And, by the way, the family has not replied to our requests for comment. But another daughter did take to Facebook to defend the mom, saying, quote,
"It is sad that 20 years ago" -- I want you all to pay attention what this girl said.
"20 years ago parents were commended for sticking up for their kids. Now, they are criticized and arrested. WTF!" She goes on to say, "Not saying
everything my mom did was right, but she did go through the correct channels first." People perceived that somehow in the past, parents
induced fighting with kids.
SCHLICHTER: Yes.
PINSKY: I never was encouraged. Were you, encouraged to go fight?
SCHLICHTER: No. I mean, look --
PINSKY: Never heard "Stand up for yourself."
SCHLICHTER: There is a difference between stand up for yourself and say, "You know, let us meet up at the park. Dad! Get the station wagon." It
is idiocy.
PINSKY: If anything, you and I are sort of the same generation. We would certainly hide from our parents if we were fighting. So, I think --
SCHLICHTER: I did not go talk to my parents about my problems.
PINSKY: Because you know it will get you into principal`s officer if you - - right? If you did.
SCHLICHTER: I got sent to the principal`s office for fighting plenty of times. I am a very unpleasant person too.
PINSKY: We noticed.
(LAUGHING)
SCHLICHTER: But, look --
PINSKY: We love you, Kurt, for the record.
SCHLICHTER: Look, this is something different. This is parents acting like children. That is what she is doing.
PINSKY: That is right.
SCHLICHTER: She was not parenting by controlling the electronic gear. She was not parenting by getting in there and solving a problem.
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHLICHTER: She is playing around with the police and the other -- and the teachers. Why did not she just pick up the phone, she had one handy and
call the other kid`s mom and say, "Hey, our kids cannot do this."
PINSKY: Yes. It is right. So, Lisa, I admire your efforts to try to control electronic media. But, we have parents behaving children, it is
hard to get them to be parents.
STROHMAN: Right. And, I think it goes -- The cycle of bullying as changed in the social media culture. And, there is something that where -- I think
it is almost in therapy we call it counter transference when you kind of take on somebody else`s emotions.
[19:40:05] And, in this situation, the mom was really the one that probably wanted to fight, right? She is defending her child, but she is
activity jumping in and putting herself in that situation. I mean, she jumped into the fight.
COOMBS: Yes.
STROHMAN: Yes. So, again, it is changing this method that we are approaching bullying is really changing based on the social media culture.
PINSKY: There you go. Thank you, Lisa. Thank you, panel. Next up, hot car dad, is he going to prison for life? His murder trial involves the
death of his little son being baked in a car. It is starting. We are back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[19:45:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (voice-over): It all began with the anguished cry of a father in a parking lot. A 33-year-old Justin Ross
Harris says after taking his son to breakfast the morning of June 18th, he forgot to drop off 22-month-old cooper at daycare, leaving him strapped in
his car seat in Atlanta area office parking lot in 90-plus degree heat for close to seven hours.
Discovering the mistake after leaving work, Cooper was dead. And, within hours, his father charged with murder and child cruelty, held without bond.
In a warrant, authority said during questioning, Ross Harris admitted to researching online child deaths inside vehicles, and what temperature it
needs to be for that to occur. What came next took the case from conversational to sensational. To the gasps, to the courtroom,
investigators said Harris was sexting women, sending lewd messaging as his son was dying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Jury selection is underway in this just horrific murder trial of Ross Harris. He is charged with felony murder and cruelty to a child. If
found guilty, he could spend life in prison. Back with Sara, Loni and Kurt. On the phone, I have HLN Senior Producer, Natisha Lance. She was in
the courtroom today. Natisha, this massive media coverage, has it impacted jury selection?
NATISHA LANCE, HLN SR. PRODUCER: You know, what has impacted jury selection, Dr. Drew is, yes, media coverage but the defense recently filed
a motion to alter the way that jury selection has done. So, in some cases jury selection will be done in a group.
But, the defense points out that they want to question each juror individually instead of in a group, because there may be one jury who has
seen or read or heard something and has already formed an opinion on the case. And, they do not want that person to taint the entire jury pool.
So, this is still something that the judge needs to rule on. We expect her to hear arguments on this tomorrow before jury selection. It really gets
underway. Today, she was just listening to hardships. But, it is definitely something she is going to need to rule on before they move
forward in the process.
PINSKY: And, my understanding, Natisha, is that people really do not want to be on this jury. Is that accurate?
(LAUGHING)
LANCE: Well, they do not know what case they are being summoned for, but they did put out summons for 370 potential jurors just for this case alone.
There were people who put in requests for hardships. The judge heard from 11 of them today. Two of them were excused for hardships. One man had a
trip that he had booked already for his 40th wedding anniversary.
Somebody else had some job issues that they had to attend to. So, those are being handled. But as far as everybody else, they will be in tomorrow
filling out questionnaires. Once those questionnaires are filled out, they will go home.
Both attorneys, both sides, the prosecutors as well as the defense will look at those questionnaires. And, then on Wednesday, they are going to
bring back a group of 18 and that is when they will start voir dire..
PINSKY: Thanks, Natisha. We will keep abreast on what is going on there with more further reports from you. Now, a judge has ruled that evidence
of Harris is questionable so-called moral behavior, including texting a minor from work the day Cooper died, can be used at trial. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DET. PHIL STODDARD, COBB COUNTY POLICE DEPARTMENT: Evidence has shown us right now that he got this whole second life that he is living with
alternate personalities and alternate personas. He asked her to bend over. He asked, "Do you like me being a perv?" Make me huge perv. Haha!" "Show
me more. It makes me a naughty older guy."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLES "CHUCK" BORING, COBB COUNTY ASSISTANT DISTRICT ATTORNEY: He was actually seeking out and meeting up with prostitutes and paying for sex.
Again, actions speak louder than words.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Sara, the defense has its work out for it.
AZARI: Oh my God, what a horrific ruling for the defense, that the sext messages are going to come in, as though it is not bad enough that this guy
left his -- even if it was accidental, left his kid in the car for seven hours. And, now, the jury gets to hear about his sexting?
PINSKY: Is not that potentially his only defense that he is a sex addict, he was distracted. He was ill.
AZARI: I think it is highly prejudicial to him, because it is going to make him even more unsympathetic to the jury. I disagree with that. I
think it is more --
PINSKY: Loni, have at it.
COOMBS: Well, I think it is very important for all of this to come in. It is not to paint him as this sex addict, so much as to just say, look, the
question is was this an accident or was this premeditated? Was this planned?
And, so, the prosecution needs to put on evidence to show his state of mind. What was he thinking about? What did he want to do? When you talk
about that he was looking at how to live a child-free life, that shows where his state of mind was. When you are looking at things of how do you
kill a child in a car, that shows how he is going to get to that child-free life.
When he is looking at how to survive in prison, he is looking at, "Well, if I get caught, this is what I am going to do." If he is looking at the age
of consent, which is because he was sexting a lot of under-aged woman, he was looking to, "Am I going to get caught?
I mean, this is where his state of mind is. Because remember before all this came out, there were thousands of people coming forward. He was first
arrested saying you got the wrong person, this is the best dad out there, he loved his son. There is no way he would ever than this on purpose.
PINSKY: Kurt.
SCHLICHTER: Well, let me just start off by saying, "Ew, this is gross."
[19:50:01] PINSKY: Yes.
SCHLICHTER: But look, I have a real problem with some of this evidence coming in unless we can tie it to a lot more than just, you know, browser
history. Yes, it could be relevant if he really was planning on killing his kid and then tried killing his wife, too, because she seems to be a
little obstacle and then moving on to something else. Then maybe it is relevant. But, boy, putting -- we know that people leave --
COOMBS: We have a dead child! How can it not be relevant?
PINSKY: Hold it. Guys, we have to take a break. I am going to talk to a jury consultant. They will continue their arguing after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Back with Sara, Loni and Kurt. And, I made them button their for the commercial break. We are talking about hot car dad. Loni, you are
talking about the relevance of this computer search.
COOMBS: Dr. Drew, I am apoplectic that Kurt considered and say, if these searches are relevant. Look, a child died in a car on a record heat day.
The searches, "How hot does it need to be for a child to die in a car?" And, the fact that he wants to be child free, that is absolutely relevant.
[10:55:07] SCHLICHTER: It is always hot in Georgia! Look, a certain number of people every year make this terrible, terrible mistake.
COOMBS: That is right. That is right.
SCHLICHTER: It could be a mistake. And, if you give me more evidence, I might start buying that he is really out there to create this second life.
COOMBS: That is the evidence.
SCHLICHTER: But, right now, all we have is a guy who did something a lot of people do and regret --
COOMBS: And --
SCHLICHTER: -- who is also a perv.
COOMBS: No. No, no, no. He is looking at child`s free life. He is looking at what the actual temperature has to be. You cannot say --
AZARI: How do you know it is him looking at it? Just because --
COOMBS: He said he did.
AZARI: Well, but he was not read his rights.
PINSKY: Hey, Sara --
COOMBS: But, that does not mean he did not do it.
AZARI: Yes.
PINSKY: In that interrogation -- do you think he explained why hoe did that? Do we have that evidence too?
AZARI: I have not heard him explain why he did --
PINSKY: Would not the cops ask the search and why he is doing that?
AZARI: And, there might be a legitimate reason why he did that.
SCHLICHTER: Maybe he knows he is a moron.
PINSKY: My theory is -- he knows he is a moron, yes!
SCHLICHTER: He knows he is --
PINSKY: Maybe he knows he is a sex addict and maybe he has been so distracted that has happened before. And, he thought, oh my God, did I
almost --
SCHLICHTER: Absolutely.
PINSKY: -- and then he did it.
AZARI: Exactly.
PINSKY: All right. Joining us, I got via Skype, I got Susan Constantine. She is a Jury Consultant. Susan, we are hearing from court insiders that
no one wants to be on this injury. Are you hearing that as well?
SUSAN CONSTANTINE, JURY CONSULTANT: Yes, I am. You know, it is lot like the Casey Anthony trial, and remember after that trial that all the jurors
in Pinellas County were saying, "Do not come to this restaurant. We do not want you here anymore."
So, you know, they may be reliving the same thing that we have seen in their own minds and some of these other high profile trial just like the
George Zimmerman. cases. So, there is a lot of risk for some of these jurors, because they lives would be uprooted. And, then of course, after
certain amount of times, their names are exposed. People can find them and then they might be subject to other scrutiny later on.
PINSKY: Now, you mentioned Casey Anthony. And, my understanding is you feel that there is a big difference between Casey Anthony and Ross Harris`
case?
CONSTANTINE: Yes. Under the Casey Anthony trial, you know, Dr. Drew, we were there. And, when we were looking at that particular case, a lot of
that information about Casey was diverted on the father.
So, the focus was not so much on Casey anymore, it was really more about the probable cause. It could have been the dad. The dad was the one who
did it. In this particular case, it is really all just about him. There is no other person to scapegoat to.
PINSKY: Wait. Wait.
AZARI: What about the wife? What about the wife. The wife also took life insurance out with him on this little baby`s life. Who does that?
PINSKY: You, guys, almost flew out of your seat when she mentioned the wife. You, guys, ready to blame her?
AZARI: No, but also --
PINSKY: Her daughter is dead, a dead baby, Loni. There you go. It is her daughter.
COOMBS: And, this wife, she actually stood by him for the first month.
PINSKY: Atta boy! That is right. And, then she realized what was really going on.
PINSKY: Susan, respond.
CONSTANTINE: You know what? This is so typical, because women are always tougher on other women.
PINSKY: I knew it. I thought so. You both jumped out of your seat when she mentioned the mom. I feel bad for that mom. I think she is another
victim in all this.
(LAUGHING)
COOMBS: I do.
PINSKY: Now, Susan, one more thing, you always say the jurors eyes are like lenses, they see everything. Flush that out for me.
CONSTANTINE: OK. So, really, their eyes are just like camera lenses. So, everything that he does or anything that he does or says, which he probably
will not take the stand, but the jurors are looking at him the entire time. And, they are trying to wonder and trying to figure out, "Is he credible?"
I on nonverbal communication. It is really important to know that jurors eyes are on the defendant and they are watching every little micro-movement
he is making and judging him. And, not necessarily in the right way because they may be misinterpreting the nonverbal cue as being something
else when it is not.
PINSKY: Thank you, Susan. Thanks very much. And, that is what you, guys, were talking about this information, this judgment today abut allowing that
he was texting an underage --
AZARI: Sexting -- yes!
COOMBS: Yes.
AZARI: And, you know, and he has got those charges as well. He got the exploitation of a minor charges and sending illicit photos to minors.
PINSKY: When that was presented in court, that could prejudice the jury?
AZARI: Absolutely. And, think about it --
PINSKY: But, I mean again, in terms of lens idea, they are going to observing how he reacts to those allegations.
AZARI: Absolutely. And, think about it, The victims are completely different. Here we are talking about a baby who was murdered --
PINSKY: Dead.
AZARI: Then, we are talking about the 16-year-old who even if they consented, their consent does not count, because they are under canal.
And, it is completely different crime.
PINSKY: Kurt.
SCHLICHTER: Look, this guy is obviously a bad person. Is he a murderer? I want to see him get a fair trial, and I am not convinced putting in
evidence on other wrongs is necessarily going to --
COOMBS: No, no, no.
PINSKY: 10 seconds, Loni. 10 seconds.
COOMBS: It is not other wrongs. It is his state of mind when the baby died. Was it an accident or was it an intentional act? You have to look
at his state of mind. That is what this evidence shows.
AZARI: Well, you are talking about the sexting, you are not talking about the charges --
COOMBS: No, no. All of it.
PINSKY: All of it. The computer searches, the sexting, the prostitute, the sex addiction. We are going to keep our eye on this. Please DVR the
show then you can watch us anytime. Thank you all for watching. Guess what, Nancy Grace is up next.
[20:00:00] (MUSIC PLAYING)
(END)
END
