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Dr. Drew
Head Of Missing Mom Found In A Recycling Bin; Little Boy Beaten, Bruised by People Paid to Protect Him; Mother Caught On Camera Abandoning Her Toddler At Walmart for Sex. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired April 12, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[19:00:15] LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY AND HLN CO-HOST OF "DR. DREW" SHOW (voice- over): Tonight, breaking news. Mystery solved. The head of a missing mom is found in a recycling bin. Prosecutors think they know who cut her to
pieces. But why?
Plus, a little boy, beaten, bruises and shot with a BB gun. The people you pay to protect him have been charged in his murder.
And, a mother caught on camera, abandoning her toddler at Walmart, so she could go have sex. Dr. Drew starts right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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BLOOM: Hi, I am Lisa Bloom sitting in for Dr. Drew tonight. Breaking news. Well, we now know what happened to a missing mother from Seattle.
It is awful. Her severed head and other body parts were found in a recycling bin.
The prosecutor believes that Ingrid Lyne was murdered in her home and then taken elsewhere. Bits of human flesh and blood were reportedly found in
her own bathtub in the drain and a saw was found in the search of her home. Watch.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Mom of three goes on a date. She is going to go to the Mariner`s opening day baseball game. She ends up dead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (voice-over): Police have identified the victim as Ingrid Lyne.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: And, I just knew. You know, I just knew.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (voice-over): Longtime friend, Nichole Rock, joined those who returned to social media in hopes of finding Lyne. But,
when she learned someone discovered body parts in plastic bags inside a recycling bin in Seattle`s Central District Saturday afternoon, her fears
only grew.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: A citizen living in the 1600 block of 21st Avenue reported finding what he believed to be human remains in his
recycling container. The items in questioned were inside plastic bags. The suspect has been identified as John Robert Charlton.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (voice-over): A man friend say she met online and had gone on a date with before she disappeared.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLOOM: The suspect, John Charlton, made his first court appearance just minutes ago. He is being held on $2 million bond. That is significant.
The prosecutor says, Charlton admits being with the victim.
Well, joining us, Karamo Brown, T.V. Host and former social worker; Wendy Walsh, Clinical Psychologist and host of "The Wendy Walsh Show" on KFI AM
640 here in LA and Troy Slaten, Defense Attorney.
Pat Lalama is also joining us. She is Managing Editor of "Crime Watch Daily" from their newsroom. So, Pat, let me begin with you. Give us some
background. This is absolutely horrific story?
PAT LALAMA, MANAGING EDITOR, "CRIME WATCH DAILY" PROGRAM: I cannot even believe that we see so many cases, right, Lisa?
BLOOM: Yes.
LALAMA: But, this one just really -- it is a shot to the heart. Here is what we know. Ingrid Lyne, a very, very nice young woman by all accounts.
She is divorced. She has been divorced since 2014. She is the mother of three young daughters ranging in age from 8 to 12.
Well, guess what? She decides she is going to get back into the dating game. And, she apparently meets this guy, 40-year-old, John Charlton. I
may have that age wrong, but as John Charlton, just a few years difference from her in age. And, by all accounts, if you look at him online, Lisa, he
looks like a perfectly normal guy.
We know looks do not mean everything in terms of appearance and what you might be capable of, but he got big blue eyes. He got dark hair. He seems
interested in meeting someone, but all accounts seems like a good guy. They are supposed to go to the season opener of the Seattle Mariner`s Game.
The last time anyone saw her, she was at the mailbox waiving good-bye, and you know the rest.
BLOOM: An absolutely horrific story. So, Pat, we know that her cell phone was found in her home.
LALAMA: Yes. Yes.
BLOOM: And, her wallet.
LALAMA: Right.
BLOOM: And her purse. So, how do we put all this together?
LALAMA: OK. Well, that is the big mystery. So, her husband comes back the next day then he has got the girls and he is bringing them home and he
is the one who says "Oh, my gosh, where is she?" Why are her -- "Why is her purse and cell phone here."
So, he files a missing person`s report. Her car, her SUV is found a couple of miles from downtown. So, you wonder, did they ever make it to the game,
if in fact it was John Charlton who did this? Did they ever make it to the game?
Did they come back to his house? Did he take the car allegedly and bring it somewhere else to throw cops off the track, thinking maybe if someone
stole it, they would be on that person`s tail? That part is a mystery.
BLOOM: Yes, because Pat, there has to be a ton of video at the Seattle Mariner`s Game that people are scouring through. And, they are going to
find out if she was there or not, right?
LALAMA: Well, Lisa, let me just say also that -- yes. And, there is no word yet on whether they ever made it to that game. But, there is
surveillance footage, apparently. We have not seen it yet, but some neighbors in the cul-de-sac, where she lived for a while say they have
surveillance cameras. And, we can only pray that there is something definitive for prosecutors on those videos if in fact they do come about.
[19:05:10] BLOOM: Absolutely. Well, joining us on the phone is Jim Clemente, retired FBI profiler. So, Jim, these details are so absolutely
disgusting but bits of human flesh were found in her tub and a saw nearby.
JIM CLEMENTE, RETIRED FBI PROFILER (via phone): Yes.
BLOOM: So, this is an absolutely gory, horrific kind of crime. Put this together for us?
CLEMENTE: Well, I believe -- Yes, this is very gruesome crime scene to find this particular body disposal that is very gruesome. But, I think it
may have been a less gruesome crime and this was just how he chose to get rid of the body. Make it more disposable. Sorry for being so graphic.
BLOOM: Uh-huh.
CLEMENTE: But, by cutting it up in pieces, it actually makes the body more disposable. It is easier for somebody to cart that around town, dump
pieces in different garbage bins and recycling bins --
BLOOM: But, Jim, does not this show --
CLEMENTE: -- and not be found out.
BLOOM: Does not this show a high level of high level of premeditation, because you have to have a saw. You have to have bleach. You have to
have, I mean, tarps and plastic sheeting.
CLEMENTE: Yes.
BLOOM: All kinds of stuff to commit a murder like this. You have to think it out in advance.
CLEMENTE: And, that is what the people, who actually investigated a crime scene are going to determine, whether he was organized and brought that
stuff with him or whether he was disorganized and impulsive, killed her and then found things around the house that he could use to do this.
So, I think those two details will tell us whether or not it is premeditated or impulsive, last-minute decision when things got out of
hand. It reminds me of lot, by the way of -- on east coast, the Long Island skeletal remain cases by the ocean.
I mean, there is a serial murderer, who is killing people and dumping their bodies there. Long enough for them to, actually, completely decompose.
This has been going on for a long time on the east coast.
BLOOM: Well, according to court documents, Charlton had abrasions on his forehead and injuries to his lip and his chin and he had scratches on his
chest and his left hand. So, Wendy, this sounds to me like she was fighting for her life.
WENDY WALSH, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes. And, she also did what you are supposed to do. Do not cooperate, fight as hard as you can,
because at the very least sadly, you leave evidence. Maybe bits of her skin were found on him or her DNA on him in someway.
But, Lisa, this is a cautionary tale for everyone in how they use online dating. How -- what safety precautions women should be taking, meaning
meet in public. Meet at a place where you know the owner of the restaurant or the bartender or better yet, do a group date with friends.
BLOOM: Well, you know what? I agree with that, but we cannot shame her. We cannot shame women, who are dating --
WALSH: No. No.
BLOOM: -- and who want to have sex and invite a man to her home.
WALSH: No. This is man`s fault for sure. This is totally his fault.
BLOOM: She has the right to do that. She is the mother of three, but she is single. She has the right to date. She has the right to meet somebody
online as millions of people do. We do not ever want to cross the line into slut shaming her, right?
WALSH: Right. We are not slut shaming her. But, I think that for both genders, it is important that we take precautions and do background checks
as much as possible. And, yes, this is his fault, completely. Let us not forget that.
BLOOM: OK. Let us not forget that. Let us not shame women, especially victims, especially horrific murder victims like this.
All right. Next, more on our breaking news. Ingrid`s friends may not have been able to save her life, but they did help police nab the suspect. Go
girlfriends.
And, later, a toddler`s mother is accused of abandoning him in Walmart. Can you believe this? So, that she could just go off and have sex? Back
after this.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: With every hour that passes --
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: It is really scary.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Neighbors grow more concerned for Ingrid Lyne.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: I am hoping that she still will be OK and be found.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: A friend say the mother of three left home Friday to watch the Mariner`s Home Opener with a date she met online.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Single mom with kids.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: When Ingrid did not show up to pick up her daughter Saturday morning, friends went on social media desperate to get
the word out.
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EDWARD FRANCESCHINA, INGRID LYNE`S NEIGHBOR: Ingrid has always been with - - for the kids.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Edward Franceschina has known Ingrid for years.
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FRANCESCHINA: Call, call, no Ingrid.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: As more time passes, neighbors cannot help think the worst.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRANCESCHINA: The longer it goes on, the more you think there is -- you know, something that is not going to -- she is not coming back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLOOM: That missing mother of three, Ingrid Lyne was dismembered. Welcome back, I am Lisa Bloom sitting in for Dr. Drew tonight with breaking news on
this story. The suspect, John Charlton, is now being held on $2 million bond.
Police believe the pair met online. And, the friends say, they dated for about six to eight weeks and she did not see any red flags. The defense
says there is little evidence linking him to her murder. So, I want to talk about that.
I am back with Karamo, Wendy, Troy and Pat. So, Troy, listen, you do important work, I have great respect for the criminal defense bar. Some
cases are harder than others, how on earth do you defend this guy?
TROY SLATEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Lisa, you, the rest of the panelists, the FBI profiler, Pat Lalama have all convicted him already. But, there is
nothing that physically links him to the crime that has been released yet.
There is no -- there is nothing that says that he was actually the one that killed her. He admits that he was with her. He admits that they were
dating. He admits that he may have been the last one to see her --
BLOOM: OK. Listen. But, first of all, all I have done was give you the facts, I do not know how you can say I am convicting him, should I not give
the facts that we know in this case.
SLATEN: Everybody is saying that, "Oh, this is him. We are so glad this guy was arrested. It is so dangerous to meet somebody online and let them
even come to your house," assuming that he was the guy that did it.
KARAMO BROWN, T.V. HOST, FORMER SOCIAL WORKER: But, Troy, you have to --
BLOOM: Karamo, your thoughts.
BROWN: You have to assume here. What we are going to find out is that this man isolated incident. When I started looking at his criminal
background. I noticed he had --
SLATEN: That is a crime --
BROWN: Yes, it does not matter. It does not matter.
BLOOM: Wait. Wait, Troy. Let me stop you.
BROWN: It started getting worse and worse and worse.
SLATEN: He had a marijuana conviction.
BROWN: It does not matter. The final conviction was something with aggravated assault in it. So, therefore --
SLATEN: It was a robbery.
BROWN: It was a robbery. So, then he started escalating in the way that he was behaving. This man is criminal. We are going to find out this was
an isolated. And, hopefully with the camera, the footage, also with the scratches on his body --
[19:15:06] BLOOM: But, guess what?
BROWN: -- we are going to find out immediately that he did this.
BLOOM: Guess what, Karamo, that probably is not going to come in the trial. We all know about it.
BROWN: Yes.
BLOOM: We can talk about it in the media, but Troy am I right? Those prior battery, prior robbery, it is not going to come in, more prejudicial
than probative.
SLATEN: Exactly, Lisa. Just because somebody was bad in the past, just because they had smoked marijuana or committed some vehicle code violations
or even a robbery does mean that they are guilty of a murder --
BROWN: Act of murder.
BLOOM: OK. So, let me go out to Pat Lalama, because when we talk about these cases, we always focus so much on the alleged perpetrator. And,
sometimes we forget about the victim and who she is.
And, I do not want her to be remembered as a woman who was a murder victim, and who was chopped up and dismembered. It almost sounds like ISIS. It is
so horrible. What can you tell us about Ingrid Lyne?
LALAMA: Well, I just want to state for the record, I did not convict this guy. I said if he is the guy --
BLOOM: Of course, you did not.
LALAMA: Thank you very much. Now, let us get back to Ingrid. A wonderful mother of three by all accounts. Everyone in the neighborhood really like
this woman; called her a conscientious woman, very devoted, very friendly to everyone. A nurse. Even seemed to have a relatively good relationship
with her ex.
All she cared about was her children. And, if I might say one thing about this whole online dating business, yes, it is a cautionary tail; however,
if she did meet him in February or March, and this was the 7th or 8th date.
And, if you go on his social profile, he seems like a really nice guy, who is communicating with cousins and sisters and all kinds of family members,
his mother, you know what, it did not seem to me like she did anything wrong at this point.
BLOOM: OK. So, let me go to Wendy on that, because you are such an expert about dating and relationships and I have a tremendous respect for you for
all of that. So, let us assume it was six to eight weeks.
WALSH: Yes.
BLOOM: She has a nice circle of girlfriends --
WALSH: Right.
BLOOM: -- which I think that was a healthy sign for an adult woman, right?
WALSH: Yes.
BLOOM: And, she tells them where she is, and what is going on. Is there any red flags here that she should have seen with this guy?
WALSH: I do not know if there were any red flags. I do think that it is important that you group date and that you meet the friends and family.
Like I think everybody comes with a tribe and you want to know the tribe.
Although, as Pat said, he seemed to have a good healthy tribe around him. And, the scary thing for so many victims of crime is that some sociopaths
can really sort of hold it together --
BLOOM: Oh, yes.
BROWN: Yes.
WALSH: -- for a pretty long period of time.
BLOOM: What about the fact that his online dating profile said, "I do not really want a relationship. I do not really want sex. I mean I am
paraphrasing, but I just want to have conversation.
WALSH: Conversation.
SLATEN: Conversation.
WALSH: I think he was like going over the top to seem nonthreatening to a potential victim by saying, "I am just looking for conversation. I am just
looking for friendship." This is not even a trick to get laid.
SLATEN: Or maybe he is actually a really good guy or who did not do it or maybe he is innocent.
(LAUGHING)
BLOOM: That is a possibility we have to consider.
BROWN: Born manipulative, because that is what I am seeing this. I wonder if she actually took time to, actually, talk to his family. We are talking
about tribe here. Has anyone talked to his family and will they be able to get on the stand, because I want to know if they witnessed any type of past
crimes. If he was abusive in the family, if there is any information that they can provide us all.
BLOOM: But, let me ask you a question as a guy.
BROWN: Sure. Yes.
BLOOM: So, take off the social worker hat.
BROWN: Sure.
BLOOM: And T.V. commentator hat.
BROWN: Sure.
BLOOM: Just a guy, maybe you are out there, maybe you are dating and you meet somebody with this profile. I mean, you would date a guy like that,
right?
BROWN: No. Not at all. I am with Wendy. I think the conversation --
(LAUGHING)
WALSH: There is something weird about that man, because why is he on a dating site then?
BROWN: There are red flags like why -- if you are such a nice and sweet guy, why are you on this dating site? Why cannot you meet people --
BLOOM: What? Millions of people are online all the time.
BROWN: I am not saying that.
WALSH: But, believe it or not, Lisa --
SLATEN: People are online all the time.
WALSH: They do, but they do not all get murdered. But, Lisa, listen to this, there is research to show, that people who self-identify as a nice
guy, as nonthreatening generally have a lot of anger underneath, because they are mad that all the so-called bad guys are getting the women. So,
they are saying like, "I am the nice guy, why do not I get." Now, he did not say he was a nice guy in the profile, but the way he said it up is --
BLOOM: You know, but want to go to Troy in this. I am so sick of violence against women and day after day, stories like this. This is a brutal
disgusting crime scene with human flesh and a dismembered head.
There is going to be DNA evidence. There is going to be hair. There is going to be fibers, either linked to this guy or linked to somebody else.
I mean they are going to catch the killer, right, Troy?
SLATEN: Well, there is no argument that they were together. He does not dispute that they were together. He does not dispute that they were at the
game together. He does not dispute potentially that they were even intimate.
So, you would expect to find his DNA in her house if he was there. So, you would expect that, and maybe she died from some other reason. Maybe he
freaked out and then thought, "Oh, my God! I am going to be accused of her murder" --
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: Like Robert Durst --
SLATEN: "I am going to get rid of her body."
BLOOM: Like Robert Durst. And, remember Robert Durst, that New York billionaire, who killed his neighbor in Galveston, Texas. And, the jury
found not guilty. Yes, he chopped up the body, but he killed in self- defense. So, any kind of crazy thing is possible. Karamo.
BROWN: But, this is my question for you. You say that, OK, maybe they had sex. DNA is going to be found. But, would not you find it a little odd
that he said that he cannot remember anything that happened the rest of the night? Do not you find it a little odd that he slept on the sidewalk?
[19:20:00] BLOOM: Yes.
SLATEN: Never heard of getting blackout drunk?
BROWN: These are red flags.
SLATEN: Never heard of people blocking out the VCR or the DVR, stop recording.
BROWN: And, I am going to sleep on the ground?
BLOOM: Sleeping on the sidewalk?
BROWN: The side walk? None of this makes any sense.
BLOOM: Listen. Bottom line, folks, with this kind of gruesome bloody crime scene, there is going to be physical evidence. There is going to be
DNA. Not just a little bit of DNA, there is going to be a substantial amount of physical evidence linking us to the real killer whether it is
this guy or whether it is somebody else.
I can guarantee you, if she fought for her life, there is going to be her DNA under his finger nails under his fingernails. And, there is not going
to be a good explanation for that. That is going to be of the killer, I can guarantee you.
Next, an abused boy dies in the care of his own family. Look at this face. How could social workers see this kid and do nothing.
And, later, police say a mother left this child alone in Walmart while she took off to go have sex, are you kidding me? Back after this.
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[19:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (voice-over): No one helped him. The social workers could have saved him, and they did not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: An 8-year-old Gabriel Fernandez was tortured to death allegedly by his mother Pearl Fernandez and her boyfriend Isauro
Aguirre. He died in 2013 from multiple injuries including a fractured skull, broken ribs and burns.
BB gun pellets were found lodged in his body. Her teacher reported him coming to school battered and bruised and said the 8-year-old even wrote a
note about suicide.
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[19:25:32) JENNIFER GARCIA, GABRIEL`S TEACHER: He was picked up and punched. He was hit with a baton. He was forced to eat his own vomit and
cat feces.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Four L.A. County Department of Children and Family Services Social Workers now face criminal charges of felony child
abuse and falsifying public records.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Those social workers should not be innocent in any of this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLOOM: And, welcome back. I am Lisa Bloom. I practice my law firm, the Bloom Firm and I am a legal analyst for Avvo.com. And, I am sitting in for
Dr. Drew tonight. An 8-year-old Gabriel Fernandez led a horrific short life. These details are horrific.
His skull was crushed. His ribs were broken. He was 8 years old. His own mother and her boyfriend are charged with his murder. And, now four social
workers here in California have also been charged for doing what?
For not doing their jobs to protect him. And, they might have even gone so far as to cover up the violence against poor Gabriel in his own home. So,
I am back with Karamo, Wendy, Troy and Pat. Pat, tell us more about what this little boy endured.
LALAMA: Well, first, the defense attorneys are not going to like this. But, I say hats off to the Los Angeles County District Attorney`s office.
It is the first time they have filed criminal charges as such in the case of neglecting a child as a social worker. I am all for it.
I wish it was not just child abuse and falsifying records. I wish it was second-degree implied malice between October of 2012 and May of 2013 as you
mentioned, belt buckles, bruises, his busted lip. Listen to this, embedded in his chest, that BB gun.
And, to me, writing a suicide note and according to court documents they said, "Well, he did not say how he was going to carry out the suicide, so
never mind." I am telling you, when I read that story and I have been a reporter for decades, I actually have not been the same since.
BLOOM: Right. And, I got to tell you, no 8-year-old should ever be writing a suicide note. I mean this is horrific. I am also -- you know, I
am somewhere in the middle on this, because when I first heard the story, I thought, you know, social workers have a hard job.
They are overloaded. They do not make very much money, and they have a lot of cases and not a lot of support. And, if somebody just makes a mistake
on the job, I do not want them charged with the crime.
However, the facts of this case really take it out of that, because 64 abuse complaints were made to the department of children and family
services in this case that launched eight separate investigations into this family. I mean this is beyond the pale. So, Karamo, how is it possible
that this kid was still in the custody of the mom and the boyfriend?
BROWN: Well, I am glad at one point, because as a former social worker, we do get overworked and sometimes things can slip through the crack. But, I
am with you. This is ridiculous. These social workers need to be locked up and need to be held liable for this case.
This is ridiculous. There is no way that you could come out and assess one, two, three, four, five times and say that there is nothing wrong and
that this child was not taken out of the home. That is ridiculous. And, this child`s blood is on each of their hands and they should go to jail.
BLOOM: Especially if they falsified records.
BROWN: Absolutely.
BLOOM: So, here is what the social workers have been charged with, folks. Child abuse and falsifying records and they could face 10 years in prison.
So, Troy, if these folks come into your office and they say, "We are charged with child abuse, falsifying records. We need you to put on a
defense." What do you got?
SLATEN: I will say that the district attorney did the absolute right thing by charging the parents with first-degree murder and are seeking the death
penalty. But, as far as the social workers here, absolutely not.
They did launch eight investigations. They are looking into it. And, yes, they are overworked. We do not charge police officers with crimes for not
stopping crimes, for not stopping a rape, for not stopping a murder.
BLOOM: We do charge them if they falsify records. So, Karamo, I want to go to you on that, because I have really been scratching my head about
this.
BROWN: Yes.
BLOOM: Why would they falsify records and say everything is OK when it is not ok.
BROWN: There is no explanation for that. That is the most ridiculous thing. Being overworked is not an excuse for this and, especially, the
fact that those records went to the supervisor. As a former social worker, when I turned it in, my supervisor is supposed to do their do diligence and
make sure what I did is right and that this child is being protected. Now, you have social workers and their supervisors who all corroborated and made
sure that this child is dead now.
[19:30:00] SLATEN: they did not --
BROWN: Yes, they did. Because when they did not step up, and do their job, they made sure that child was going to die.
BLOOM: OK. So, let me bring Pat back in. Because, Pat, to me, the falsifying of records is key here. A police officer would be charged with
falsifying records.
LALAMA: Of course.
BLOOM: So, tell us about that part of this case.
LALAMA: Well, the fact that there were certain pieces of information that essentially, they are alleged to have changed or/thus falsified. And, that
to me stinks of trying to cover up heinous actions and heinous neglect.
You know, just to make a quick comparison. You know, recently in Los Angeles, a doctor was convicted finally of second-degree implied malice for
overprescribing.
Because she knew she was creating a scenario that was so horrible that people could die. To me, this is similar. They knew. This is a
tragically heinous case. This is not just, "Oh, we are overworked. Sorry, I missed a few things."
BLOOM: Yes.
LALAMA: This is a lot worse.
BLOOM: And, Wendy, here is the abuse that this little darling 8-year-old boy endured. And, you know, folks, sometimes, I do a lot of child abuse
cases. It is awful to have to talk about the facts. But, I feel like if they had to live it, if they had to endure it, the least we can do is talk
honestly and use the real words about what happened.
He was beaten with bats, clubs, metal hangers, belt buckles, doused with pepper spray, forced to eat cat feces and his own vomit. This poor little
angel slept in a locked cabinet, unable to go to the bathroom. I mean, Wendy, in my opinion, this is not just abuse. This is actually torture.
WALSH: This is absolute torture. And, it went on for we know documented for many months. My suspicion is, it went on for many years. And, it is
important that people understand, when a child talks about suicide, it is real. It not just though he has a little depression, anxiety.
SLATEN: The social workers were not the ones torturing him.
WALSH: They did nothing. I think the bigger problem is that we can look at this child as this tiny little micro issue of a bad thing that happened,
but this is an indication of a bad system. If this kid is out there, imagine how many other kids are out there tonight being beaten because
social workers are not doing their job.
SLATEN: The system is the problem.
BLOOM: But, Troy, you are -- everybody deserves a defense. So, go ahead.
SLATEN: The system is the problem, when it is easier to file criminal charges against them than fire them. And, in fact, one of these social
workers was able to appeal and get their job back.
BLOOM: Right. Four were fired. One got the job back.
SLATEN: Exactly. So, whatever union is protecting them --
BLOOM: But, that might indicate facts that we do not know about.
SLATEN: That is true. But, they did not do it. Imagine also the effect on intact families, if we are going to -- imagine the social workers, they
are going out to look at potential abuse, and they are going to be afraid. "Oh my God, if I do not cake this kid out of the family. I am going to be
charged with murder."
BLOOM: You know what? No. No. You know what? Let them be afraid. Let them be afraid, because job one is protecting children. I am sorry, that
is job one. And, if you are a social worker and you are not going to do that job, go do a different job. Because these children are depending on
you, and you are the last line of defense, so I do not buy that at all.
All right. Next, Gabriel`s cousin is here. Let us talk about the family in this case. What if anything did she and the other family members know
about the abuse and what about their responsibilities.
And, later, a 3-year-old wandering the aisles of Walmart alone, look at this little darling, while his mother was off having sex. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GARCIA: He was hit with a baton. He was forced to eat his own vomit and cat feces.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Gabriel lived with his grandparents until the age of 7 when extended family say he moved back in with his mother and
the alleged abuse began. DCFS had investigated child abuse in the home half a dozen times, but never took him out of it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK RIDLEY-THOMAS, L.A. COUNTY SUPERVISOR: There is no good reason for children to die.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: After his death, four L.A. County Department of Children and Family Social Workers now face criminal charges.
Prosecutors say they were neglect by allowing Gabriel to remain in the family home despite signs of extreme abuse.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLOOM: I am Lisa Bloom sitting in for Dr. Drew tonight. And, you know, I am a foster mom, because I get sick of seeing these stories. And, I
thought, "You know, I could do something about it. I could take in one child.
I could take in one abused child and change his life." And, if you are sick of seeing stories like this, think about it. I love being a foster
mom. It is one of the best things I ever did. And, I hope more people will do it.
An 8-year-old Gabriel Fernandez was beaten to death allegedly by his own mother and boyfriend. And, now, four social workers have been charged for
not protecting this adorable little angel.
Back with Karamo, Wendy, Troy and Pat. And, joining us by phone, Gabriel`s cousin, Emily Coranza. Emily, thank you so much for joining us. How did
you get the terrible news that little Gabriel had died?
EMILY CARRANZA, GABRIEL`S COUSIN (via phone): I was watching the news. It had come up -- it flashed across the news as breaking news. When the
arrest came of his mother and his name flashed that he was fighting for his life in the hospital.
BLOOM: Oh, that is a horrible way to find out about a family member. Did you have any idea that he was being abused like this?
CARRANZA: No, not at all. The last I had seen Gabriel before they moved to Lancaster, he was still in the care of his grandparents.
BLOOM: Well, you know, look. We are talking about the social workers and how they have been charged. But, I think a lot of people wonder about the
family. I know there is this extended family.
There were teachers reporting bruises on his face, including BB gunshots to his face, bruises on his body, multiple reports. Why did not the family
see this? Why did not the extended family family jump in to save him?
[19:40:07] CARRANZA: That -- you know, I have no idea why they did not. They said they tried. They said they called social workers themselves. I
do not know if they have a paper trail of that, but because I was not in constant contact with them, I do not know how much they actually were
involved in trying to remove him from her.
BLOOM: And, you know, Emily, you are right. I know that family members did reach out to social workers as well. What do you want to see happen to
these social workers, who are now charged with crimes for not helping Gabriel?
CARRANZA: I want them to see -- I want to see them serve their time. I want justice for Gabriel. I want them to know that their job should have
been taken serious, because they took on a very serious job to save children.
BLOOM: Yes.
CARRANZA: Now, they falsified their records. They have seen the bruises. They ignored his cries. They ignored everybody that tried to get them to
help him. They just did not do their job right.
BLOOM: Well, you know, Emily --
CARRANZA: And, if you do not do a job right, they should be punished.
BLOOM: And, Emily, thank you so much for joining us. And, I think you make an important point that these are people who are trained to see signs
after abuse. And, you do not have to even have any training to see what was going on with Gabriel, because he is covered with bruises.
And, all the other -- you know, BB shots and all the rest of it, you did not need any training. And, if people who are trained to protect children
are not going to protect them, then there should be consequences. Pat Lalama, I have seen you sort of jumping out of your chair over there. Go
right ahead.
LALAMA: Well, you know what? I am thinking about this case and something that I just cannot get out of my mind that after they did all of these
horrendous things to him, on one occasion after they made him eat his own vomit, and pepper sprayed him, they put him in this closet and then they
put a sock in his mouth to muffle his crying. OK?
And, there is no way with a BB bullet lodged in his chest and a suicide note that you can tell me that these four people just, "Whoops, sorry, did
not get all the facts straight. We are really sorry." And, what is really amazing to me is one of the four is a church elder and the other one is a
former nun. Go figure.
BLOOM: Yes. And, so, let us all get the metaphorical sock out of our mouths and speak out about child abuse. And, when you see something, say
something, especially when it pertains to a child. And, Karamo, what do you have to say as a former social worker when you look at this case?
BROWN: These social workers are despicable. And, I really hope that justice serve them right now and they go to jail. Well, I want to say
something because we have talked about -- I saw on Twitter that a lot of people are saying, "Well, how did the family not know?
Why did not the family step in and do more? And, I have to speak from the standpoint of a social worker that it is very hard for extended family
sometimes to step in and get a child.
BLOOM: So, what it is hard?
BROWN: Well, yes --
BLOOM: You know what is hard? You know what is hard?
BROWN: I am not defending --
BLOOM: Being the 8-year-old child who is being abused.
BROWN: Of course. Of course. What I am trying to say here is that, what happens is that the extended family will sometimes go to the system and the
system will say, you do not have enough evidence. You could have some type of issues.
BLOOM: OK.
BROWN: And, so the thing is I do not want people to start to go after this family, because they are victims in this as well. You know, this is --
their child is dead. You need to stay focused on the social workers.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: Wait a second. Let me just say something. As an advocate for children, and I do a lot of child abuse cases. I am tired of the excuses.
Yes, it is hard. Yes, it is hard to talk about a family member. Yes, it is hard to point the finger at someone. Yes, it is hard to call the
police.
Nothing is as hard as being an 8-year-old child locked in a closet with feces and vomit in your mouth? Nothing is harder than that. And, I am
sorry, if you are an adult and you cannot take a child -- I do not care what it takes, Wendy.
I mean, we just have a short bit of time, but if you have to take that child and go somewhere else, you know, just take the child away to keep the
child safe. That is what you have to do as an adult.
WALSH: It is what you have to do. But remember this, Lisa, dysfunctional parents separate and isolate themselves from their families. They are not
integrated with their extended families. They do not allow access half the time.
If the kid has bruises, they do not go to grandma`s house that weekend. So, they know how to hide their crimes. And, that is why we have to be
careful about blaming the family.
BLOOM: Well, yes except that the teachers and everybody else saw it --
WALSH: Exactly.
BLOOM: I do not know what the family saw, fair enough. I do not know what they saw. But if they saw anything, they should have jumped in.
All right, next, outrage as a child is left alone at Walmart. A little 3- year-old boy, and police say his mother abandoned him there, so she could go off for about 6 hours to have sex. Back after this.
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[19:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: A mother arrested after police say she abandoned her 3-year-old son in Walmart for hours, why? To go have sex
with a friend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: I guess Walmart customer was the baby-sitter today?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Chenetra Washington was hoping someone would take the boy and give him a better home. She is caring for six children,
but that might not be for long. One of the grandmother reportedly wants custody of some of the children claiming Chenetra is mentally ill.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLOOM: I am Lisa Bloom sitting in for Dr. Drew tonight. So, thank God the little boy was unharmed and he was placed in state custody, of course.
And, as for the mom, she was caught on surveillance camera leaving the store alone. There she is. I am back with Karamo, Wendy and Troy. And,
Troy, does this mother have any kind of a defense?
SLATEN: Absolutely, Lisa. Aside from the fact that she is several cards short of a full deck. She has been undergoing psychiatric help as
evidenced by what her family has to say. Maybe she was actually doing her son a favor. Maybe she was under duress and she did not want to have her
son be with her when she was being forced to maybe have sex or --
BLOOM: That is a big maybe. There is no facts that she was being forced. And, she leaves the kid at Walmart, so she could go off and get forced into
sex? I mean please.
[19:50:00] SLATEN: She said that she left the child there because she hope that somebody else would be able to look after him better.
BLOOM: Yes. Yes, but that has nothing to do with forced sex.
SLATEN: I mean, would it be better if he ended in a bed with rocks at the bottom of a river.
BLOOM: Yes. So, it is true. So, it is a great idea to leave your 3-year- old at Walmart, which is filled with strangers --
WALSH: Of course it is not a good idea, Lisa. That is because she has a mental illness. And, if you do not like the slut shame, I do not like to
shame people who have a mental illness.
BLOOM: That is true. And, I did not --
WALSH: In some ways, there was a survival mechanism there by leaving her child in a place, where some employees might be able to care for them. She
has four other children, five all together. And, four of them are living with her mother. This is a woman who, we can judge how we want, should not
be having more children.
BLOOM: She needs mental health services. I will agree with that. And, Gale Edwards, who is the grandmother that Wendy was just talking about.
Grandmother of four of Chenetra`s children said this about the Walmart incident.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GALE EDWARDS, CHENETRA`S GRANDMOTHER : I do not know what happened. Maybe she snapped or maybe somebody gave her something to cause her to do that,
because normally, she do not leave her child. She would never leave him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLOOM: So, the grandma says that he considers the mom a friend, but Karamo there is more to the story?
BROWN: Yes. The paternal grandmother of Chenetra, if what she is saying is correct, if what she is alleging, it is going to be really bad and she
should not have the children. Apparently, she is saying that Chenetra threatened to cut and cook the children.
BLOOM: Oh!
BROWN: Yes. And, then she also left the children home unsupervised many of times and also that Chenetra would punch the children in the face and
forehead in front of other people. She is also telling us that Chenetra did go and tried to have some type of mental health -- get mental help, but
it clearly did not stick.
BLOOM: OK. So, we have the perfect guest that I want to talk to about this. Joining us via Skype is Casey Rayborn Hick, a Public Information
Director for the East Baton Rouge, Louisiana Sheriff`s Department. And, so, Casey, please take us back to the scene and describe the interaction
between Ms. Washington and your detectives when they started investigating.
CASEY RAYBORN HICKS, EAST BATON ROUGE PARISH SHERIFF`S DEPARTMENT: Well, when we received the call around 10:30 that a Walmart employee had actually
found the little boy wondering through the store. And, so, our detective went out. He tried to talk to the child. The child could not give us his
name or anything.
And, we began searching for who does the child belong to. We actually had to put it out in the news, his picture on the news. She was gone for more
than five hours. And, then she showed back up in the same vehicle that they saw her leave in. And, she basically told detectives that she did not
really know why she left him. She really could not answer any questions.
BLOOM: And, Casey, what was the little boy saying? Was he saying that he missed his mommy? Was he crying? What was he like?
HICKS: No. You know, what we heard -- our detective was there with him and Walmart employees, they really kind of took him in. They got him toys.
They got him McDonald`s. He could talk.
He was just humbly too scared to give his name and his age. So, he actually bonded with one of the workers and fell asleep in her lap. There
were really some great people that came in there at the Walmart and took care of this little boy.
BLOOM: OK. So, Casey, I got one more question if you would stay with us over this break.
Next, so, what happens now? Will the mother be able to keep her six children? Should she? I will be back after this.
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[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLOOM: I am Lisa Bloom in for Dr. Drew tonight. And, we are talking about a mother of six charged with deserting her 3-year-old little boy in a
Walmart so she could go and have sex for five hours or at least she was gone for five hours, that is all we know.
Back with Karamo, Wendy, Troy and Casey. And, Casey, let me go out to you. Look, I raised two kids, they are wonderful. I have a 16-year-old foster
son. He is wonderful, but like any mother, I say I would get stressed. I would have a bad day.
And, of course, that is times a 1,000 for this woman who clearly has some psychological challenges. Is there anywhere in your community where a
parent can go and say, "Look, I just cannot handle my child today. Obviously, anything better than leaving your child at Walmart.
HICKS: Yes, definitely. We have the department of child and family services. We have our social workers. Hopefully not like the case you
just discussed, but definitely contact your local law enforcement agency. Call your local child and family services center. Someone out there will
help you, especially to keep your child safe.
BLOOM: But, Karamo, I mean realistically, you cannot drop your 3-year-old off at the social workers.
BROWN: You cannot. You cannot. But, you can drop your kid off if you are feeling overwhelmed is with a parent. The paternal grandmother said, "Hey,
I want the kids. I am only taking care of a couple of them." All this mother had to was drop her kid off with the grandmother.
BLOOM: Yes.
BROWN: That is it.
BLOOM: So, Wendy, and that is why I have a little less sympathy for her.
WALSH: But she is not making logical choices.
BLOOM: Right.
WALSH: Because she is not thinking right. It is like us blaming homeless people who end up homeless because they are not taking medication, but they
are not in the right frame of mind. They cannot even make decisions for themselves, let alone their children.
BLOOM: But, Troy, cannot we agree that this woman, because of her challenges and because of her terrible behavior should not have custody of
any children, period?
SLATEN: She should not have custody maybe right now. But, I think people can get better. And, if she can get stabilized on medication that she can
get take parenting classes --
BLOOM: A lot of parents know that.
SLATEN: -- and show the authorities that she can be a good mother then no, we do not want to tear a family apart forever.
BLOOM: Well, what we want to see I would say at least a couple of -- and here is how the system works. As I mentioned, I am a foster mom. The
parents have to go through parenting classes, substance abuse if that is an issue, psychological counseling, anger management. They have to be
watched. They have to be monitored.
And, then maybe little by little, you get the child back in a monitored way. Monitored by somebody who is responsible. Ultimately then, maybe you
get the child back. Thanks for watching. And, thanks Dr. Drew for letting me sit in your chair tonight. Nancy Grace is up next.
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END
