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Dr. Drew
More Disturbing Details About The Man Who Has Been Charged With Murdering And Decapitating A Seattle Mom; What Charlton Did During His Interrogation That Raised A Huge Red Flag; A Father Kidnaps His Own Son Deprives Him Of A Mother`s Love Until He Is Busted More Than A Decade Later; A Woman Violated By A Doctor`s Disgusting, Sick And Illegal Behavior
Aired April 14, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[19:00:14] DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST OF "DR. DREW" PROGRAM (voice- over): Tonight, even more disturbing details about the man who has been charged with murdering and decapitating a Seattle mom. We will hear from
one of his exes, who says he was a violent, abusive and deadly man.
Plus, a father kidnaps his own son deprives him of a mother`s love until he is busted more than a decade later. Why is dad spending just four
years in prison?
And, a woman violated by a doctor`s disgusting, sick and illegal behavior. She is here to tell us what he did and the slap on the wrist he
received. Let us get started.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
PINSKY: Tonight, John Charlton charged with first-degree murder in the gruesome death of a single mom, Ingrid Lyne. Now, four more romantic
partners and friends are coming forward with disturbing details about his past. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HANA KIM, REPORTER: Jason Huffmaster is sick to his stomach.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFF HUFFMASTER, CHARLTON`S FRIEND: It just gives me chills. And, I am just like -- like I cannot stop thinking about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KIM: John Charlton, the man he once called a close friend is accused of killing Ingrid Lyne after a date, dismembering the mother of three at
her home, then leaving her partial remains in a Seattle recycle bin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEATHER DANISHEFKY, JOHN CHARLTON`S EX-GIRLFRIEND (via phone): Wow! You know, this could have been me, this poor woman. It could have happened
to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KIM: A Montana woman says she dated Charlton for about six months.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANISHEFSKY: He was charming and witty all of that, you know. Of course, I was like taken by him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KIM: But, Heather Danishefsky claims their relationship quickly turned abusive. She says Charlton even tried to choke her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANISHEFSKY: A lot of the time it was when he was drinking. And, he would get really angry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUFFMASTER: You do not really think somebody you know could be capable of doing something so sick and demented. He deserves anything and
everything he gets he has coming.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Joining us Lisa Bloom, Civil Rights Lawyer at the Bloom Firm, also legal analyst for Avvo.com; Anahita Sedaghatfar, Attorney, Of Counsel
to the Cochran Firm; Erin Foster, Psychotherapist and Paige Browning, Reporter 94.9 KUOW Seattle. Now, Paige, first-degree murder, in my
understanding, is not the only charges he faces, correct?
PAIGE BROWNING, REPORTER: That is right, Dr. Drew. He has also been charged with theft of a motor vehicle. Police, basically, think that the
night that the murder happened, John Charlton took Ingrid Lyne`s vehicle, that they were at her home and could have used her own vehicle to transport
her body and the body parts that he dismembered that night. And, then police eventually found the vehicle a few days later in Seattle away from
her home and the home where the body parts were found.
PINSKY: Did he have an explanation about the vehicle?
BROWNING: You know, what happened the night of the incident is interesting. He says that they went to a Mariner`s Baseball Game, the home
opener and that afterward they went to a bar where his sister worked and that he got wasted.
They went home to her house, could not remember what happened after that. He says that Ingrid Lyne eventually drove him back to Seattle and
that he fell asleep on the street and that is the last thing that he remembered.
That would not have been totally out of character for him, because he told police that he has been living in homeless shelters, between homeless
shelters and his ex-girlfriend`s house. So, that is his explanation for the vehicle. He has no idea, because he was too drunk.
PINSKY: Thank you so much for that update. It sounds like a man of anyone`s dreams. I mean charming, witty, homeless, no vehicle. Fantastic!
Murdering, violent alcoholic. Ex-girlfriend told police that he was, quote, "A mean drunk, that she actually expected him home Saturday morning
at her home." Another woman that was just persuaded this was a lovely man.
But he was a no-show. She then picked him up at a bus station that night and he had injuries on his face. She asked about them. He told her
he had been robbed. He still had his wallet. Anahita, how are you going to defend this guy? Come on now.
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, let me tell you one thing that caught my attention here and I said this on your show a million
times. If you are a criminal suspect in a case, do not speak to the police. And, that is what he did. He was talking and talking. And, he
said a lot of things that did not matter.
But what he did was he placed himself at the crime scene, because he told police "I came back to her house after the game." It does not mean he
is guilty. I think we need a lot more evidence to make that lit, but he may have now incriminated himself in a crime that he may have not
committed. So, keep your mouth shut if you are a criminal defendant. Do not speak to police unless you have an attorney present.
LISA BLOOM, CIVIL RIGHTS LAWYER: OK. But, let us be realistic. He has got the worst defense ever. I passed out drunk. I do not remember. I
was asleep on the sidewalk. So, if that were true, there would be witnesses to this man passed out on the sidewalk, downtown Seattle, right?
[19:05:00] PINSKY: And, by the way, does not him being drunk work against him.
BLOOM: Yes.
PINSKY: And, that when he is drunk, he has been known to be violent.
BLOOM: Yes.
PINSKY: -And, he choke women? And, Erin, what is up with woman. What is up that they -- Is it his piercing blue eyes? He is such a
charming homeless man that he is irresistible. Are women -- and, I do not want to blame this woman that is the victim. I do not want to say that at
all, but anyone else that fell under his charms, spell. Why cannot people be realistic about who they are with?
ERIN FORSTER, PH.D., PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, I think what we are looking at is a persona that he has created a persona in his online
program. She met this guy online. She did not know him that long. So, who knows what he was projecting or portraying?
PINSKY: Well, according to the charging documents, Charlton told police he and Lyne, the victim, had been dating for about a month. We have
heard up to six weeks. And, he said, he was, quote, "Homeless, had a drinking problem and was not a normal person." That is how he described
himself, Anahita.
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes.
PINSKY: Your defendant --
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes.
PINSKY: -- the guy that you hope would keep his mouth shut is really I think coming clean. I think he deserves a tip of the hat for that.
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, look, that does not make him guilty. Yes, he says he is not a normal person. He said he drank. He has a criminal record.
He had a restraining order against him brought up by his parents, but guess what? That does not make him a murderer.
And, those things actually do not even come into evidence in this trial. So, as a defense attorney, I am not worried about that. It does
not come in unless he chooses to testify, and then it can be arguably used for impeachment, but --
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: I wish the camera had just a portrait of Lisa during Anahita`s comments.
(LAUGHING)
BLOOM: I will give you the face now if you like. It was like, Argh! You know. Listen, Dr. Maya Angelou had a great line, "When a person tells
you who they are, believe them."
PINSKY: Thank you.
BLOOM: Right.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Yes. Let me quickly get in to the audience just for a minute. Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hey, doc.
PINSKY: Hey.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: It is a general question. We see all these incidents of mass murders and terrorism --
PINSKY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: -- mass shootings, serial killers. And, I just wanted to know -- I see the model of the brain there.
Can evil be identified in some part of the brain?
PINSKY: Well, yes. It is a great, great question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Is it environment that is creating these people?
PINSKY: Great question. Fantastic question. I got Erin here to back me up on this. You tell me if I am getting this right. There is a part of
the brain roughly speaking, it is in this region right here that is abnormal in psychopathy.
Psychopathy is the disturbance where people really do not appreciate that other people`s brains exist. Other people`s heads do not have content
as far as somebody who has some problem in this part of the brain. They also have some problem here containing impulses particularly when they
drink.
Now, people can be born with this problem and have difficulty with empathy and not be able to really understand other people`s contents of
their minds very well. But, they can live amongst us and live a relatively normal life. They may have hurt some puppies when their kids and they have
done this and that, but they can be OK and they can compensate for this.
The problem if people with this brain problem are abused in childhood, then this thing spirals into a very bad place where not only
they do not appreciate other people`s minds to have content, they actually get off on hurting other people and do things like bringing out an
instrument like this and thinking it is a very cool idea. No, no -- There you go. A cool idea to just de-articulate someone`s body. Erin, am I
getting anything wrong here?
FOSTER: No. No. And, we now that neurons that -- synopsis that fire together wired together. And, therefore, these parts of the brain can
actually physically wire.
PINSKY: They change. Next, I will tell you what Charlton did during his interrogation that raised a huge red flag.
And, later, a physician behaving badly. He admits he has issues. He is accused of looking up a woman`s skirt. The victim is here with me.
Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[19:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: In shackles John Charlton entered court to face a judge in connection with the murder of Renton mom, Ingrid
Lyne.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE PROSECUTOR: It is clear from what we know at this time that this is a very brutal crime that appears to have occurred in the
home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Lyne was reported missing Saturday. Her remains discovered in plastic bag in a recycling bin in the central
district. Inside the victim`s home, the prosecutor says the CSI unit found pieces of human flesh and blood in the bathtub drain. Near the tub, they
also found a pruning saw.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: We have just learned that the Seattle Police Department CSI unit, recently returned to Ingrid Lyne`s home. When they removed the
bathtub, they found additional blood and flesh. Back with Lisa, Anahita and Erin. And, Lisa, I want to show you what this monster must have done
to this woman. I demonstrate it yesterday. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I want to show them what it takes -- the amount of aggression and violence it takes to take a pruning saw and saw through a
femur. It is insane. Here you go, guys. I am going to do -- I mean, you have to work at this and work at it and work at it.
It is not something you are doing in a few minutes in a bathtub. And, by the way, this is just the bone. There is soft tissue as well that
has got to be cut through. You see how this is, right?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: It is insane. I get disturbed just handling this saw, let alone actually -- just imagine. I mean --
BLOOM: Yes.
PINSKY: And, listen, to be fair, he probably went across the joints, not across the bone.
BLOOM: I do not think we have to be fair. I do not think we have to worry about being fair to him.
PINSKY: I am just saying. Thank you.
BLOOM: And, let us be clear, all right, what he probably did, allegedly did to her.
PINSKY: Yes.
BLOOM: He did not have power tools, so he had to be really amped up to do that.
PINSKY: Yes.
BLOOM: Then he had to clean it up with some kind of bleach or tarp. So, this had to be premeditated for him to bring all that stuff with him
and take most of it away with him. And, he cleaned up to the extent that there was only -- I am sorry to say there was human flesh but only a little
bit of human flesh. I mean this would have been a disaster. A bloody, fleshy, horrific crime scene.
PINSKY: And, Lisa, to be, again, to sort of flesh out what we are talking about here. This could not have been the first time he did this,
to know how to clean up so well.
BLOOM: Right. Right.
PINSKY: Right?
BLOOM: Exactly.
PINSKY: I mean, Anahita --
BLOOM: You do not start with a bloody gory murder.
SEDAGHATFAR: I am just wondering where is the forensic evidence? Where is any evidence that would tie this man to the crime?
[19:15:01] BLOOM: Well, they are analyzing it now.
SEDAGHATFAR: Right. I just feel like everyone is just rushing to convict. I do not think there is enough evidence. I have not heard of one
piece of evidence that would say they found a fiber. They found his skin under her fingernails. They found any hair. They found any blood. It was
a gruesome crime scene.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: He was the last one seen with her --
SEDAGHATFAR: We do not know that, though.
BLOOM: Right?
SEDAGHATFAR: But, we do not know that.
BLOOM: But, wait.
SEDAGHATFAR: That is the problem.
BLOOM: OK. Then, who else was seen with her?
SEDAGHATFAR: There are some indications that possibly someone else may have shown up at her house.
BLOOM: Possibly, maybe. He is the last one known to have been with her.
SEDAGHATFAR: Known to have been with her, it is true.
BLOOM: So, he got to be ruled out.
SEDAGHATFAR: But he is being charged with first-degree murder and we are convicting him of first-degree murder.
BLOOM: I am not convicting him. I am just saying what the facts are.
SEDAGHATFAR: I am just saying let us not take it for granted that we do not have all the facts yet.
PINSKY: Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: In your opinion, do you think that these forms of social media are allowing people to act out these
crimes that they normally would because of the anonymity?
PINSKY: No. I do not think the social media is causing anything. I think it is just more efficient access. And, the reason I was bringing up
how people relate to one another and I was sort of asking women why they would not be more realistic about checking on this guy`s background. I
mean, listen, check the medicine cabinet, check the criminal records, check the family history for whoever you are dating before you even get --
BLOOM: The criminal records.
SEDAGHATFAR: A Google search perhaps would have shown if he had a criminal record.
PINSKY: Listen, there are dangerous people out there. I do not care that he is got piercing blue eyes. Remember that hot criminal picture?
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes.
PINSKY: You remember that, Anahita?
SEDAGHATFAR: I remember him.
PINSKY: Anahita, you liked him.
SEDAGHATFAR: No. Sam liked him.
PINSKY: Yes.
SEDAGHATFAR: I did not like him.
PINSKY: Right.
BLOOM: Why do we always blame women? I mean, when women are victims of crime, we always say "Why did she go out with that guy?"
PINSKY: No. No. Not blaming her.
BLOOM: You know, when a man is a victim of a burglary or carjacking, we do not say, "Well, why did he pull up that stop sign and did have his
door locked." You know what I mean?
PINSKY: No. No. I did not. I would not do that. I am hoping I am in no way doing that. I am saying, let us look at this and let us think
about this because it can happen to you. It is just a gruesome horrible crime.
And, Erin, I want to also show you, when he talked to detectives, they described him as rather nonchalant. OK. During question, he told
them he failed to call them about the woman, Lyne`s disappearance because he was, quote, "Offended by texts from her friends and family."
Poor man, he was offended. Let us listen to -- and by the way, what was the content of these offensive texts? Let me read it to you right now.
"Where is my daughter?"
BLOOM: Yes.
PINSKY: That is it.
BLOOM: Yes. Wow.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Yes. Wow is right. Thank you.
BLOOM: Yes.
PINSKY: So, he seems manipulative.
BLOOM: Yes.
PINSKY: He seems grandiose. He seems he has a history of violence under the influence of alcohol, which can happen, right? And, he says he
is blacked out. Anahita, defense, blacked out. Is that a defense?
SEDAGHATFAR: It is not a defense.
PINSKY: Thank you.
SEDAGHATFAR: Voluntary intoxication is not a defense.
PINSKY: Thank you. Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hello. My question is to Ana. Being that there is so much evidence piled against him and there is no
other suspect involved, how can you defend someone that is --
SEDAGHATFAR: Well --
PINSKY: Wait, wait. I am going to answer, because I have learned from Anahita -- wait wait.
SEDAGHATFAR: Let us see if he learned.
PINSKY: Everyone deserves a good defense. Everyone deserves a defense.
SEDAGHATFAR: Absolutely.
PINSKY: It is in our system that thank goodness we have capable, intelligent, skilled --
SEDAGHATFAR: Excellent.
PINSKY: -- excellent attorneys like Anahita and her like to defend people, because you can be wrongly accused of something. And, the fact is
we are speaking in hyperbolic terms about this guy a little bit.
SEDAGHATFAR: Right.
PINSKY: We do not know --
SEDAGHATFAR: We do not know.
PINSKY: -- whether he did this. We are waiting --
SEDAGHATFAR: Evidence.
PINSKY: Forensics.
SEDAGHATFAR: Forensics.
PINSKY: Yes. It looks bad. It looks terrible. I just say, listen, this guy has a long criminal record. Do you have the criminal record? Can
I read that to people? I would really like to read that, because it just goes on and on and on. Why someone who is going to meet up with a guy like
this online does not know that, does not check that -- I mean, were not there people searches you can --
SEDAGHATFAR: Even a Google Search, I think would indicate some of these criminal records.
PINSKY: All right. I am not getting any searches, perhaps I could do that next time. Yes, ma`am?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi, Dr. Drew. I just want to ask you, are there any obvious warning signs that we can look for besides
everything that we talked about?
PINSKY: There are not obvious warnings. Listen, for the most part we and you are a perfect instrument. A perfect instrument. If you tend to be
attracted to and attracted by problematic people and you are attracted to somebody, you found another one. OK, there is that, so if you have that
history.
If you do not have that history and you do not come from problematic relationships or with your primary caretakers, which is really that all get
set up, your gut will tell you something. You are also a perfect instrument that way and you should listen to that. There are people out
there you should not be hanging out with.
BLOOM: But, is not everyone a problematic person, honestly, when they are dating?
PINSKY: Lisa, let me say this. Everyone except you and me, but sometimes I worry about you. We have to take a break. The suspect`s
parents are in hiding tonight. I will tell you why. We are back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[19:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: More than 250 people united in grief at St. Matthew`s church in Renton, honoring and praying for Ingrid Lyne.
This was not about how she was taken, but how the 40-year-old lived. The Swedish Medical Center nurse is described as smart, funny, she loves
sports, but above all, was a devoted mother.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM MORRELL, FAMILY FRIEND: Those three beautiful girls -- those three beautiful Lyne girls, they have to live with it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Lyne`s ex-husband, the girl`s father released this statement, saying in part, "A light went out of our lives
forever. Ingrid was taken from us for reasons we still cannot comprehend."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: She was funky. She was funny. She likes to help in the classroom and community will miss her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Back with Lisa, Anahita and Erin. Court documents confirm that Charlton has a criminal history in six states as I was telling you.
Here they are. It includes a 2006 conviction of aggravated robbery in Utah.
[19:25:00] Three years later, convicted of battery in Idaho. Felony theft in Montana. So, violent crimes this guy has a history of. Part of
his five-year probation for that felony theft, he spent time in drug treatment.
Erin, the part that I cannot get my head around -- I can get the fact that he is a sociopath. He is manipulative -- I mean allegedly, allegedly;
that he gets violent when he drinks, that he manipulates a number of women.
I mean he got picked up by one of his exes, I mean the very day that he had done all of this. He has got a lot of people in his life. I do not
know how many of them that they realized he was homeless.
But, there he was, he managed to manipulate all that. I still cannot get my head around somebody that decapitates someone. And, not just, you
know, with a saw. I cannot get my head around that. What kind of person does that?
FOSTER: Well, I am thinking there is got to be some kind of history of abuse.
PINSKY: But there are plenty of people that are abused in childhood and they do not think it is a good idea to pick up the pruning saw in the
woman`s, you know, back yard and cut her head off. It is a level of depravity that you -- it is hard for a normal person to understand.
FOSTER: It is beyond a psychopath.
PINSKY: Yes.
FOSTER: I mean, it is evil.
PINSKY: Yes. OK.
BLOOM: Can we just say, it is misogynist? It is woman hating. He leaves her in the trash like she is garbage.
PINSKY: But, Erin, here we are, two clinicians, who are both willing to use a term evil.
FOSTER: Yes.
PINSKY: There is a point of which there is evil. And, although, we can give names and labels too. It is still how human become evil. The
evil is the same. It is synonymous with what we are talking about. We just use different terminologies.
Hopefully, so, we can prevent somebody from becoming this. All the way to this, but it is evil. There is no doubt about it. The other thing,
I want to say is that I have been unfair. I was talking about woman checking the online backgrounds. Well, Anahita, you straighten up when I -
-
(LAUGHING)
SEDAGHATFAR: I thought you are going to defend the --
PINSKY: No, I am not going to defend him. I defend women.
SEDAGHATFAR: Women.
PINSKY: And, remind men that they need to check backgrounds too.
BLOOM: Thank you. Yes.
PINSKY: Absolutely. Women, they can be nefarious in their behavior as well.
SEDAGHATFAR: That is right.
PINSKY: I am just saying. But, Anahita, you understand why we are all so excited about this guy, even though you are doing your job. I get
it, but you understand what we are all seeing here.
SEDAGHATFAR: I understand. It is a very violent, gruesome, bloody crime. But, again, that is not how we convict people in this country.
There needs to be evidence. There needs to be something that will directly link this man to this murder. If that is case, fine, convict him.
PINSKY: Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Well, it is obvious that these crazy people are out there, but they look normal.
PINSKY: Yes.
BLOOM: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: And, A lot of these sites online, it is a fake name or a title of a name. So, what do you say on
your first getting to know them, the can you tell me your entire name, so I can look you up in Facebook and find everything?
BLOOM: Yes.
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: And, that is what we should tell our young people, right?
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Yes. I think behind your question is a sense that, "If I say or ask any questions, I am going to chase away the prey." You know
what I mean?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: We should not worry about that.
PINSKY: You are worth way more than that. And, not only are you worth way more than that, look at how horrible the outcomes can be if you
are not standing up for yourself.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
BLOOM: Yes, absolutely.
PINSKY: All right. I am going to move on. I am vomiting. I am sick of this case, but I have got more. I have got a father who kidnapped,
next, his own son. Is he getting off easy for having abducted him? The mom`s attorney, Gloria Allred, thinks he is getting off easy. She is here.
And, later, what man in his right mind would try to look -- here is another thing I cannot understand, look up a woman`s skirt in a
supermarket? So, that guy does. He is a physician. We are back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[19:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Julian Hernandez was five and living in Alabama when he was kidnapped by his father. Thirteen years later, he
is defending dad. Julian`s unmarried parents were in an allegedly troubled relationship when he was young.
His father Bobby left a note that he and Julian had gone fishing, say police. It was the last time his mother would see him. It was 2002.
Father and son moved to Cleveland. Julian was given a new identity.
But, the crime was exposed when a school guidance counselor discovered his social security number was bogus. Dad pleaded guilty to
kidnapping and a slew of other charges. Bobby could have been sentenced to decades in prison. Julian begged for leniency.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JULIAN HERNANDEZ, SON WHO WAS KIDNAPPED BY HIS OWN FATHER: Even though everyone wants to talk about all the bad things he has done and does
not think it is possible to forgive somebody for something like this, I think that he has done a lot of good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Instead of 54 years, Bobby got four.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Back with Lisa, Anahita, Erin and joining us Gloria Allred. Gloria represents Julian`s mother. Now, Bobby is guilty of kidnapping,
custody interference, forgery. But, Gloria, the victim, Julian, the kid, wanted no jail time for his father, is that right?
GLORIA ALLRED, MOTHER`S ATTORNEY: That is correct. That is what he indicated to the court yesterday in Cleveland.
PINSKY: Is that what persuaded the judge? Is that why it went from 54 to four?
ALLRED: Well, the court took into account many factors. I represented the mother at the sentencing. The mother did not comment on
what her recommendation to the court would be. She had no comment.
And the court said, "Well, the son wants no time in prison for his father. The district attorney asked for the maximum sentence possible and
the court gave four years. The family, of course, was disappointed. And, you know, the mother`s heart goes out to others, countless others who have
missing children.
These parents have very deep pain about the loss. They are in grief. They do not know if their children who are missing are alive or dead. And,
you know, the family feels there should be serious consequences for anyone who abducts a child.
[19:35:05] PINSKY: Lisa is ready to jump in on this.
BLOOM: Can I just ask my mom a question?
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: You can ask your mom, of course, please.
BLOOM: For those who do not know, this is my mom. Is not the mother -- Yey!
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
You know, we talk about the boy being a victim, but is not the mother a victim too?
PINSKY: That is exactly where I was going. Not just a victim too, the primary victim in an interesting way, because the boy really did not
know he was a victim.
BLOOM: Good thing he is too, but she -- imagine having your child missing and you do not know what is happening for all those years.
PINSKY: That is an imprisonment. The mom`s life was kidnapped. Her emotional landscape was --
BLOOM: So, why would she not want to speak at the sentencing?
PINSKY: That is what I am wondering too. Yes.
ALLRED: Well, I did read her statement for her. His mother would like her privacy. And, she is very determined to have her privacy and also
asked for the privacy of her son. She is now trying to rebuild a relationship with her son, who is 18 years old. And, it is very
complicated.
But out of respect for her son and the fact that it is complicated, you know, she is trying to maintain their privacy, but she loves him very
much. She cares for him and she wants to help to rebuild their relationship and his life. He is a wonderful young man. He appears to
have a bright future, but she did go through a loss.
PINSKY: Oh my God.
BLOOM: Terrible loss.
PINSKY: It is hard to get your head around. Erin, I want you to comment on that. But, first, I want to show you more from Julian, the
boy`s impact statement at his father`s sentencing. Here we go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JULIAN HERNANDEZ: He has raised me well in my opinion, a lot better than any other parents I have seen. He has pushed me far in school and he
is the reason why I get some of the best grades in school and why I am going to college. When other kids were on drugs and smoking and drinking,
like just because of him I never fell into any of that even when I had numerous opportunities to.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Erin, when I think about what this woman has sacrificed and been through, it makes my stomach tie in knots. Because not only she had
been through years of torture, right? Where is my child? Where is my child? But, then she is willing to take on whatever she has to do to
repair the relationship with her son, if the son does not want to press charges.
FOSTER: What I find most interesting is this speaks to the character of this mother.
PINSKY: Yes.
FOSTER: This is truly a mother. Because in spite of the depth of her pain and every parent`s worst nightmare, she wants to do what is in the
best interest of her son.
PINSKY: Listen. I would just say mother is everywhere. You know, what I mean? She is representing --
FOSTER: Absolutely.
PINSKY: It is extraordinary. I do not think a man would sit still for this.
ALLRED: And, she was a wonderful mother. She had that child until the baby was 5 years old. When the child was abducted, she would read
bedtime stories, sing, wonderful preschool, everything.
PINSKY: I am sure she did, just based on how she is behaving now. I think we could predict that she would have been a wonderful mother.
BLOOM: But, you know, you cannot just take your child. You cannot just abduct.
PINSKY: It is crazy.
BLOOM: I mean I represent people every day in child custody fights that are painful, that are stressful. People are pulling their hair out.
But, they are doing it the right way through the family law courts. And, this guy did what I think a lot of people fantasize about. I am just going
to take the kid and do it my way. He needs to be punished for this.
PINSKY: Anahita, 10 seconds, defend him.
SEDAGHATFAR: I just feel, though -- I mean, there is no way to defend what he did. It was wrong. But the judge did place great weight on the
son`s testimony. And, I think 54 years taking this father away from the son who is so well-adjusted might be a bit extreme in this case.
PINSKY: All right. We have to go to break, quickly. I have got an audience question I will get into in just a second. I got a lot more on
this case. And, the father is thrilled with his short jail sentence as you might imagine. His attorney is here. The attorney will explain why it is
in fact the perfect punishment. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[19:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: A remorseful father, Bobby Hernandez asked the court to please go easy on him. He got four years instead of 54 years for
kidnapping his son. I am back with Lisa, Anahita, Erin and Gloria Allred who represents the boy`s mother. I want to go quickly to the audience.
Yes, sir, what do you want to ask?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: (INAUDIBLE)
PINSKY: Microphone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: If the shoe was on the other foot and the woman had kidnapped the son, do you think it would be the same
sentence? And, also, if you were the judge, all of you, what sentence would you have handed down?
PINSKY: So, would we all, would society go easier on a mother that kidnapped his son?
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes, there is a huge double standard. I saw it on social media today. When it is the mother that does something like this,
she gets defended. People presume the dad is a deadbeat dad. But with him, people were like "Put him in jail for life. Give him the death
penalty."
BLOOM: Yes.
SEDAGHATFAR: I think there is really this double standard.
BLOOM: I have a question for my mom. Is he remorseful, the father?
ALLRED: I think his attorney would need to answer that.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Let me go to the attorney. His name is Ralph Defranco. He is the attorney for Julian`s father. Ralph, is your client remorseful for
what he had done?
RALPH DEFRANCO, BOBBY HERNANDEZ`S ATTORNEY: Absolutely. And, he made it very clear on the record yesterday during the sentencing that he
apologized to the young man`s mother and her family and anybody that was, you know, represented there. He clearly is --
PINSKY: Ralph. Ralph. Why, Ralph, did he take his son in the first place?
DEFRANCO: Well, the basis for this is they did not have a good relationship. And, my understanding from my client, when the child was
conceived, there was some issue according to my client whether she was even going to have the baby. He indicated that he wanted the baby.
[19:45:05] He wanted to have the baby and if the baby was born, he would do everything he could to raise the child. And, there were some
circumstances where, you know, she thought he was going to leave and he thought she was going to leave and it led up to, you know, the circumstance
that created this difficult situation.
PINSKY: OK. Gloria?
ALLRED: Now, Dr. Drew, first of all, I am not even going to dignify that disgusting remark with an answer. All of this is a lot of excuses. I
thought he said that his client was remorseful. His client plead guilty to numerous felonies.
That means that my client, the mother, never agreed to have her son removed from her and from the loving relationship that they had. So, if he
is trying to make excuses now, then he is saying essentially that his client is not remorseful.
PINSKY: Mr. Defranco?
DEFRANCO: Nobody is trying to make excuses, Gloria. This was in the report. The prosecutor said this was all nonsense too.
(LAUGHING)
ALLRED: Right.
DEFRANCO: This was in the probation report and that was in the history, if you would have taken the time to read it. And, there were
issues with the two of them that created this problem.
ALLRED: There is no justification.
DEFRANCO: And, we have the right to present --
ALLRED: I am saying it loudly. I am saying it clearly. So, listen up, sir, there is no excuse for abducting a child.
BLOOM: Yes!
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
ALLRED: And, anyone who does should face serious consequences.
DEFRANCO: Gloria, you showed up on the day of sentencing. I have been involved in this case since last November.
BLOOM: OK. And, your client is now convicted.
DEFRANCO: So, I think I have a little bit more of a say than what you have --
ALLRED: Yes. Since you have been involved since last November, maybe you ought to review your client`s plea, which you allowed him to
enter to numerous felonies, not just one --
DEFRANCO: Desperate.
ALLRED: And, that he plead guilty.
DEFRANCO: All right, if you --
ALLRED: And, that is something he has to take responsibility for.
DEFRANCO: Well, he took full responsibility. And, the felonies, if you would look at them, they reflect what the activity was and the identity
that was created. And, it shows that he accepted responsibility for all the actions that he performed. So, he accepted responsibility. He showed
remorse in the courtroom. You were there as well as I do. So, I do not know what your problem is.
(CROSSTALK)
ALLRED: Well, I tell you what. My problem is --
BLOOM: First of all, he had 13 years.
ALLRED: My problem is, sir, that the focus should be on this child and rebuilding the relationship with the mother who loves him.
PINSKY: OK. Let me leave it there, because I think that is a perfect goal for everybody, right? That is the goal. The two victims, the child
and the mom, let us call them both victims here, reuniting them in their original natural state, which is together as mother and child. You have a
question, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. Dr. Drew, I want to know how long and how hard did the mother even look for her own son that a guidance
counselor is the one that figures this all out years later.
PINSKY: Gloria.
ALLRED: OK. The answer is simple. For every day of the 13 years tjat her son was missing, she was searching. I spoke also for the
grandmother yesterday, the maternal grandmother, who indicated to the court, "At least sentence him to the 13 years for every day that we were
looking, that we were out there searching, that we did not know if he was alive or dead, that we were in grief, that we were crying. Sentence him at
least to a term in prison as long as the 13 years that we suffered."
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
BLOOM: And, if he was remorseful, he had 13 years to change his mind.
PINSKY: All right. I am going to leave it there. Gloria, thank you. I am just so glad that this has ended. I keep thinking about it being back
in its natural alignment. Let us be happy that it is there.
Next up, a physician. He admits he has a problem, a compulsion to look up women`s skirts. I have a victim, says he is a danger to society.
She is here. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
[19:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: The defendant is guilty of attempted video voyeurism.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: We have a person in the store taking pictures up people`s dresses.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Security cameras inside public show this woman totally unaware of what is happening behind her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Dr. Akram Ismail is guilty of sticking his phone underneath the dress of a victim, Amy Armstrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMY ARMSTRONG, DOCTOR LOOKED UP SKIRT AT STORE: Being violated is never something that anyone should have to deal with.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: But, his medical license remains active.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Should he still be a doctor?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE OFFICER: if found guilty, no.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: A Florida doctor sentenced to four months in jail for attempted video voyeurism. He was accused of filming up to skirt of an
unsuspecting shopper at a grocery store. He still has his medical license and apparently plans to continue practicing when he gets out. Back with
Lisa, Anahita, and Erin.
Now, here is what he apparently told police when they contacted him. This is from his affidavit, quote, "He stated to me that he has a
compulsive disorder that caused him to take underskirt videos of unsuspecting females." Lisa.
BLOOM: It just sounds like a perfect doctor that we would trust when we are naked and cut open --
PINSKY: He is a gastroenterologist, who is going up skirts a lot.
BLOOM: You know what? He needs to have his license revoked. He should never practice medicine because we could not trust him as a doctor.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Anahita, he says I have a compulsive disorder.
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes.
PINSKY: So, whatever follows that, is that a defense?
SEDAGHATFAR: It is not a defense. No.
PINSKY: Right.
SEDAGHATFAR: But, I do not think just based on this particular crime, it is a misdemeanor, it is not a felony, that he should be barred
completely from ever practicing his profession again. What troubles me is the prior convictions. I mean, he seems to be getting in trouble after
trouble after trouble, and I think that is where the problem really is. It is not just the punishment.
[19:55:05] PINSKY: Erin, where is the Florida licensing board? Where is that? Wherein California, the board of medical quality assurance,
the people, they have -- they have diversion programs, wellness programs. Whatever hospital he is practicing, they should be taking care of this guy
and getting him treated. What do you suspect this is?
FOSTER: Well, first of all, physician heal thyself.
PINSKY: Yes.
FOSTER: If you have a disorder there is plenty of help out there available.
PINSKY: Yes.
FOSTER: If you could have an impulse control issue, we could have some sort of neurological thing going on.
PINSKY: It is some sort of sex addiction, do not you think?
FOSTER: But, I think sex addiction, personality disorder.
PINSKY: OK.
FOSTER: Yes.
PINSKY: Well, joining me via Skype is Amy Armstrong. She is a victim of the doctor`s attempted video voyeurism. Amy, are you satisfied with the
verdict?
AMY ARMSTRONG, DOCTOR LOOKED UP SKIRT AT STORE: I am happy that there was a guilty verdict. I do wish that it was the more serious charge, but I
am happy that there was at least a guilty verdict.
PINSKY: Did you have any idea what was happening to you?
ARMSTRONG: I had no idea at all. It was supposed to be an uneventful Publix trip. Just needed to fill out some paperwork at customer service
and grab some lunch. And, I felt people staring at me. I had no idea what was going on.
PINSKY: And, how were you notified what had happened?
ARMSTRONG: I was not notified until I was leaving the store and I had a police officer approached me. At that point, the minute, you know, a
police officer approaches you, you are kind of alarmed. I pulled out my receipt and said, "Look, I paid." And, he said, "No, were you aware that a
man was actually videoing under your skirt in the store?"
PINSKY: What did you think?
ARMSTRONG: I could not even process it.
PINSKY: Yes. Yes.
ARMSTRONG: It was unbelievable.
PINSKY: Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I am disgusted but my question is how can there even be a question of guilt or innocence when there is
witnesses and the guy says, "I do this, this is my compulsion." How can this go to trial and be something that is debatable?
PINSKY: Well, do I have the doctor`s attorney on the phone? Is that accurate? Is that true? OK, the doctor`s attorney can answer that,
hopefully. His is Scott Richardson. Scott, we are hearing from our audience here, that they are wondering how -- given that he was sort of
caught red handed, how the sentence ended up where it did?
SCOTT RICHARDSON, DR. ISMAIL`S ATTORNEY: Well, caught red handed is not quite true. The jury did not believe the idea that he viewed, recorded
or took pictures up skirt of Ms. Armstrong. They did not prove it. And, therefore, the jury came back not guilty on that count.
PINSKY: Now, I have a defense attorney is sitting across me, nodding and gleefully saying, "Oh, it was just attempted." Is that what you were
saying?
(LAUGHING)
SEDAGHATFAR: He was charged with a felony count and a misdemeanor and apparently, the jurors did not believe that it was a felony here that he
committed that it was an attempted voyeur charge.
PINSKY: Amy, are you still there on Skype?
ARMSTRONG: Yes, I am.
PINSKY: What do you think about that?
ARMSTRONG: There was no attempt. He videoed under my skirt. He violated me.
PINSKY: And, so, he has a previous record of behavior. Let me ask this, Scott, why does not he get assessment of help? Why are not physician
wellness communities really taken the responsibility away from the legal system and getting him what he needs?
RICHARDSON: Well, I am his criminal defense attorney. They do have a physician`s referable network here in Florida. I do not know whether he is
availed himself. He can certainly do that going forward.
Again, this is just a misdemeanor. And, to address the charges themselves, there was discussion as to whether or not there should be
attempt in the jury instructions. Over my objection, the judge allowed that.
Again, the jury clearly found him not guilty on the felony. And, as fall back, they were allowed to convict him on the misdemeanor attempt.
Again, there were no pictures, no videos, no recordings.
BLOOM: OK. But, he is guilty of attempting to look up a strange woman`s skirt and video her. And, I think he should have to have a huge
sign on the front door of his medical practice saying, "This is what he does," so that women can be warned. I mean we are talking a lot about this
guy, what about these women. Can you imagine going to a doctor like this? Can you imagine?
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
SEDAGHATFAR: Can this be something rehabilitated?
PINSKY: We do not know what it is, yet.
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes.
PINSKY: Erin and I were sort of speculating. But, my thing is like, we do a good job as physicians usually of taking care of ourselves. As
soon as somebody even appears to be behaving like that, we get them in behavioral programs in this state. That is what we do.
I hope Florida does the same thing. And, I hope he gets what he needs. But, in the meantime, if he does not and he continues to behave in
ways that is dangerous to other people, it is going to be guys like Scott - -
BLOOM: But, women need to get what they need, which is safety from this guy.
PINSKY: All right. Listen. You are channeling your inner Gloria, I like that.
(LAUGHING)
But, we have to stop it right here. I know, I get it. We do not have time. We have to stop. I appreciate it. You, guys, did a great job.
Audience, thank you for your participation, you were great today. Please DVR this show, then you can watch us anytime. We really do appreciate you
watching this show. Tell a friend. Nancy grace, up next.
[20:00:00] (MUSIC PLAYING)
END
