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Dr. Drew
Husband And Wife Disappear Without A Trace; Manhunt On For Two Armed And Dangerous Brothers; Boy Claims Teacher Watching Porn In Class; Human Remains Found Hours Ago In Seattle. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired April 18, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:14] DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST OF "DR. DREW" PROGRAM: Tonight in Seattle, even more human remains found dumped in the garbage. They belong
to the mom whose head was found in a recycling bin, but first --
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY (voice-over): Treason in the classroom. A middle-school student claims, he saw a teacher looking at porn.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFFREY PROVINCE, 6TH GRADER AT EAST BANK MIDDLE SCHOOL: I saw something on the computer that a 13-year-old should not see at a school.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: The teacher fires back and it is all caught on tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THOMAS YOHN, EAST BANK MIDDLE SCHOOL TEACHER: The next time you open your big stinking mouth pal, I will write you up and send you to the office for
coming into my room without permission. Is that clear?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Student versus teacher. Who is right? Who is wrong? Who is in big trouble?
Plus, a husband and wife vanished, disappear without a trace. Patrick Shunn and his wife had been missing for a week. Tonight, police believe
they were murdered. Now, the manhunt is on for two brothers, convicted felons who are armed and dangerous. Let us get started.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(INTRO MUSIC PLAYING)
PINSKY (on camera): Sheriff deputies say, "No doubt, a married couple is dead." But can they catch the brothers, who may have committed these
murders? A manhunt under way tonight in the rugged woods of Washington state. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TY TRENARY, SNOHOMISH COUNTRY SHERIFF: Detectives believe Patrick and Monique were murdered.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KRISTEN DREW, KOMO CORRESPONDENT: You can see deputies searching near the couple`s home. It is located in a heavily wooded area.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHARI IRETON, SNOHOMISH COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE SPOKESWOMAN: They are working all angles of this, kind of backtracking from where we know they
were last.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: The couples` vehicles, a Land Rover and Jeep, were found late last week in a wooded area near Oso several miles
from the couple`s rural Arlington home. Inside their vehicles and their home, the sheriff says, deputies found evidence of murder.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERIFF TRENARY: Detectives were able to tie the Reed brothers to the disposals of the vehicles owned by Patrick and Monique. Both men are
considered to be armed and dangerous and we do not currently know where they are.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joining me, Loni Coombs, former prosecutor, author of "Your Perfect and Other Lies Parents Tell." Cheryl Dorsey, Sergeant, LAPD
retired, author of the "Creation of a Manifesto: Black and Blue." Troy Slaten, Defense Attorney.
Via Skype, I have Troy Dunn, Private Investigator and Jason Mattera, Correspondent with "Crime Watch Daily." Now, the sheriffs say it is clear
the couple is dead. Clear. Cheryl, no bodies, what makes them so convinced and what possibly could they have that ties those brothers to
this?
SGT. CHERYL DORSEY, LAPD (RET): Well, the fact that they are missing is certainly telling, and you know we are all creatures of habits, right? So,
when you look at what this family normally does day to day and those things are not occurring, that is a clear indication in my mind that they are no
longer alive.
They are not using their ATM cards. They are not visiting the grocery store, if that is something they do on the regular. And, certainly, what
they can glean from the family members in terms of their daily habits would be an indication that if they are not doing those things, something bad has
happened.
PINSKY: Loni, tell me more about this couple.
LONI COOMBS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: So, this couple is Patrick Shunn and his wife, Monique. They have been married for four years. They met at Burning
Man. He was a former Army Airborne Ranger and she is from Canada. And, they have this 20-acre farm and they supposedly are very passionate about
their pets and animals.
PINSKY: They met at Burning Man?
COOMBS: Yes, they did.
PINSKY: Wow!
COOMBS: I know.
PINSKY: Everybody meets at Burning Man. Jason, who would want to kill this couple and why?
JASON MATTERA, CORRESPONDENT, CRIME WATCH DAILY: Well, these two brothers have a lengthy criminal history including assault with a deadly weapon,
burglary and theft. One of the brothers, the older one, had an ongoing legal dispute with this couple that involved trespassing onto their
property. In fact, Dr. Drew, they had an upcoming court appearance in May.
And, why the sheriff`s department and the police are so confident these two had something to do with it and they are calling it a homicide, is because
these brothers are caught on surveillance video dumping the couples` vehicles.
PINSKY: And, Troy Dunn, you have been through a lot of searches, does this get your spidey sense going in any way?
TROY DUNN, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: This has been discussing from the moment go. You know, when anybody start I was saying the word suspicious, "There
is a suspicious case, somebody is missing and we think it is suspicious." Those do not end well. And, first of all, can I just say my
congratulations to the law enforcement who did such an amazing job, getting to what I believe is a conclusion on this.
Unfortunately, now they are going to have to produce some bodies. Based on the information we already know, I believe they already have more
information than they are telling us at this moment. But that is probably because they are working with the family and they are moving through that
process before you and I are brought into the loop.
PINSKY: And, Troy Slaten, apparently, they have the data dispute with the neighbor and those brothers were one of the neighbors? Is that the
connection?
TROY SLATEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, they had disputes with all their neighbors.
[19:05:00] PINSKY: Why?
SLATEN: Well, they were upset that certain neighbors were coming onto their property with recreational vehicles and unleashed dogs. This couple
had their own livestock and they had their own animal.
And, this is not just a situation where the old grandpa sitting on the porch saying, "Get off my lawn!" This is a situation where, you know, they
are trying to protect their property and their livestock. And, they are having disputes with all their neighbors, not just the two suspects.
PINSKY: But, they did -- one of the brothers lives nearby, is that accurate.
SLATEN: Yes.
PINSKY: Not both of them, but one of them.
SLATEN: And, they are missing.
PINSKY: Jason, do you have any more information about he suspects, the Reed brothers?
MATTERA: Repeat that again, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Is there anything more to be said about this couple, the Reed brothers? Anything else more? Have they ever been violent? You said they
had been -- you mentioned their criminal record. Let us review that again.
MATTERA: Sure. Tony Reed has been arrested for assault with a deadly weapon, burglary and theft. His older brother John also has a criminal
record but that has not been divulged yet. So, yes, they do have violent pasts.
PINSKY: And, then, Loni, we do not know really what the connection is. But, the law enforcement as Troy Dunn was saying seems to have more
information than they are allowing us to know.
COOMBS: Absolutely. And, look, they disappeared at the same time, this couple disappeared. The police have said, these are the people and they
are armed and dangerous. So, whatever information they have that they are not sharing shows something very serious going on.
PINSKY: Troy Dunn, is this going to be another one of those manhunts, where they are, you know, going to be scouring though the country side with
huge armies of men or is it -- how do they do this?
DUNN: Based on how fast this case is moving, I suspect that they have some leads right now and probably are not releasing information because they are
closing in on these gentlemen. The last tip in I got, was that it was Tony specifically that they were targeting.
I assume that his brother is involved perhaps, but it is Tony specifically they are tracking. I believe that as you and I are talking, they have a
beat on where they are at. And, as soon as they disclose that, these guys will run. So, they are not going to disclose that until they have them in
cuffs.
PINSKY: Does anybody have a theory what happened here? I just cannot even get my around it.
SLATEN: I mean you fight with your neighbors and --
PINSKY: He picks up an axe?
SLATEN: Well, it became so serious that the neighbors did not like this fight anymore, and they decided to make the people that were complaining
about them disappear.
PINSKY: No. Wait. That does not make sense to me.
COOMBS: Well, it is surprising, Dr. Drew, how violent neighbor disputes can get. I mean, they can be very full of animosity and you are living
there and you are stuck with these people.
And, when it gets to the point where they are in court and they have court dates ahead, sometimes people if you happen to be dealing with someone who
has a criminal background, a violent background and we do not know what type of mental state they have --
PINSKY: Right.
COOMBS: You know, you are working with people who might be dangerous.
PINSKY: So, to me it makes sense to say that perhaps, the one guy, the one that they are zeroing in on -- what was --
COOMBS: Tony.
PINSKY: Tony, had some sort of encounter with the husband, got violent with him, maybe killed him, maybe accidentally even, but then had to go
kill the wife as an alibi or something. You know what I mean?
COOMBS: Yes.
PINSKY: It does not make sense that he would just go kill both of them. Cheryl, you know what I mean?
SGT. DORSEY: You know what? It sounds like this has been an ongoing feud for a while. And, so, it has had an opportunity to build up over time.
And, so, you do not get to the point where something happens on one day that causes you to want to kill someone. It is a compilation. It is an
aggregate set of circumstances and now I have had enough.
PINSKY: All right. Well, next this conversation continues. But, later, a boy claims he saw his teacher watching porn in class. See how the teacher
reacted. It is all on tape. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERIFF TRENARY: Two men suspected of murdering Patrick Shunn and his wife, Monique Patenaud. A 52-year-old John Blaine Reed and his brother,
49-year-old Tony Clyde Reed. Both men are considered to be armed and dangerous and we do not currently know where they are.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Patrick and Monique are a loving couple, who are loved by friends and family. Their 20-acre farm and animals are their
passion. They love the outdoors, love their family and friends and most of all love life. Wherever they are, they are together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Sheriff deputies in Washington state hot on the trail of two brothers they believe murdered a married couple. I am back with Loni,
Cheryl, Troy Slaten, Troy Dunn on Skype, Jason Mattera in the "Crime Watch Daily" newsroom. Now, Troy Dunn, you are putting this case through a
filter. You call the five F`s. Tell me about that.
DUNN: So, in every case that we have worked on in the last 25 years, we found that every suspicious missing person ends up with five categories of
a missing persons falls into --
PINSKY: Did we lose him? I think we lost him -- well, you have got the full screen there. Let us put it up there again. I can review it with
people because Troy gave us this list. It is fear, fraud, finances, foul play, freak accident, and we were sort of contemplating freak accident and
fear together or foul play, right?
COOMBS: Yes. And, it is interesting --
PINSKY: Loni, you said neighborly problems are a common one.
COOMBS: Right. During my 18 years as a prosecutor, some of the stupidest, most ridiculous and yet most heated cases were between neighbors. They
would get this dispute going and because you cannot move away, it just festers.
And, every day they see that person that they hate right there. And, it ends up escalating to a level of violence. And, sometimes, it is not
intentional but it just explodes to that or it festers for so long.
PINSKY: And, these guys are criminals. So, once they cross that threshold they will do --
COOMBS: Violent criminals. They are violent --
PINSKY: -- whatever they have to do to clean up after their mess. Cheryl, what kind of connection do you think they have? What sort of evidence
might they have collected to connect the brothers to this couple, other than that they were nearby?
COOMBS: Well, I am certain that there was some DNA evidence in those vehicles. There are two vehicles now that have been recovered and there
would be some telltale signs in there that may very well link the brothers to the missing couple.
As well as the fact they seem to have angst. This couple has angst with everybody, right? It is not just the two brothers that are missing. And,
I believe that probably this thing has just ratcheted up to a point, where the ones, who have a propensity to violence use violence to resolve a
situation.
PINSKY: Cheryl, translate angst for me.
(LAUGHING)
[19:15:00] DORSEY: Anger.
PINSKY: Anger.
DORSEY: They are angry. They are hot.
PINSKY: They are pain in the ass. That is what you are talking about
DORSEY: Yes, in a real way.
PINSKY: It seems like they are a pain in the ass because everyone is fighting with them, right?
DORSEY: Right.
PINSKY: Troy.
SLATEN: People can get so upset over even a root growing onto their property or a tree having leaves fall over on their side of the fence. I
defended cases where people have done insane things over seemingly very small property things.
PINSKY: But, to be fair, let us not take aim at the victims here.
COOMBS: Right.
PINSKY: These people are gone and, you know, forgive me for making light of that. But, Troy Dunn, let us get back to those five F`s. What about
that?
DUNN: Yes. You know, let me tell you this, Dr. Drew. I think every family in America will appreciate if you will take on the topic in the
future of yard rage because it is a thing. We talk about road rage. Yard rage is real. And, the number of neighbor disputes that escalates to
violence is rapidly on the rise.
And, when somebody goes missing for suspicious reasons, they always end up being resolved in one of five categories, and we call it the five F`s,
which is they are caused by one of these five.
Fear, fraud, finance, foul play or freak accident. As soon as they announce those cars were both missing, immediately my team`s response was,
this is going to be foul play.
PINSKY: Explain fear to me.
DUNN: And, Unfortunately, it sounds like that.
PINSKY: Explain fear to me. I do not understand that category.
DUNN: Yes. So, when someone goes missing, there is always a reason. And, the first category is fear. And, fear is being afraid of somebody or
something. Either you owe somebody a debt, or you have got a violent spouse or you have done something you are afraid you will be caught for,
which interestingly enough.
In this case, the second half of it, which is now that these brothers are missing, they are now missing in the category of fear. They are afraid
they are going to be caught for what allegedly they may have done.
PINSKY: And, Jason, did you say there was something about a lawsuit between one of these brothers and the couple?
MATTERA: Well, the couple has been suing their neighbors, the brother John included, over saying the neighbors are using their own property for
recreational use, ATVs, allowing wild dogs on it, and the couple like to farm and they have their own livestock.
So, yes, there is an upcoming lawsuit. And, the court appearance was supposed to be May, and now we know the couple was presumably dead and will
not make that court appearance.
PINSKY: Jason, you are not one to mince words. What do you think happened here?
MATTERA: It is clear, the brothers killed them. I mean, come on, they are on surveillance video dumping the vehicles. I mean, there is no doubt in
my mind. There is should not be doubt in anyone`s mind that they are guilty.
PINSKY: But, what happened, do you think? Do you think they got tired of the complaining and went after them or just a freak accident? They had a
fight and they swung at him and hit him and you know, killed him accidentally? What happened?
MATTERA: You know, the yard rage that was mentioned is interesting because at "Crime Watch Daily" we cover stories all the time, where there are
easement disputes or public land disputes and it ends in greasily murder.
So, they probably escalated to the point and the brothers just got tired of having to deal with these lawsuits. Got frustrated to the point, where
murder seemed like an acceptable solution.
PINSKY: You know what? Yard rage, I have been involved with that. I did not think about that. But, more my wife than me, but still you do not
realize. It is sort of part of your day and day out management of property.
DORSEY: Right.
PINSKY: But, you have disputes neighbors here and there or they with you. Very common. I did not even thought about how commonly it happens.
SLATEN: The husband here tried to reach out and get a judicial resolution to this. He sought a restraining order against his neighbor and he was
denied. So, the court said. No, we are not going to issue that restraining order and did not give him that protection.
PINSKY: Crazy. All right, next up -- thank you, panel. Was a teacher watching porn in class or was a student trying to get a teacher in trouble?
And, later, breaking news. We have even more body parts found in Seattle. Could they belong to the mother who was dismembered? Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THOMAS YOHN, EAST BANK MIDDLE SCHOOL TEACHER: If you ever step foot in my room again without permission, it will be the last time that you step in my
room, is that clear?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Cell phone video of a teacher bursting into another teacher`s classroom and shouting at a student.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOHN: What I watch as an adult is my choice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: The outraged teacher furious after the student accused him of watching porn on his computer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFFREY PROVINCE, 6TH GRADER AT EAST BANK MIDDLE SCHOOL: I saw something on the computer that a 13-year-old should not see at a school.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: The boy says he reported the teacher to his principal who then had a word with the teacher. The teacher says the boy
was trying to blackmail him for an A. According to the boy`s mom, what her son witnessed was not porn but three people talking about a threesome.
Even so, she says, it is not appropriate viewing for a teacher in the classroom.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: The principal says they investigated but found nothing, quote, "Questionable on the teacher`s computer." The teacher has not been back at
school since. I am back with Loni and Troy. Joining us Segun Oduolowu, former middle-school teacher. Segun, where are you falling in this story?
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, FORMER MIDDLE SCHOOL TEACHER: I do not buy that Eddie Haskell story of that punk kid one bit. His own mother said he is no
angel. It feels like a set up. Listen, for anyone who has been in a classroom with these kids, all right, they have cell phones, everything is
given to them, right?
They do not have to look up in encyclopedias anymore to find information. So, no, I do not buy it. And, that kid saying, I did not go to school and
expect to see this and I was traumatized." Shut up! I do not buy it. That teacher and that kid have had run-ins before and --
PINSKY: Sure.
COOMBS: Yes, but --
PINSKY: I want to just comment on that grandpa in the middle there about having to use an encyclopedia, has to flip through pages. And, be that as
it may, how about the way that teacher behaved when he burst in the room? For as a parent looking at that, you think, "Hmm, not cool."
ODUOLOWU: No. I will be honest with you. I do not have a problem with public shaming. We have done this -- we have talked about this before.
And, I had no problem because that teacher felt so vindicated. He has got tens of dozens of eyes on him right now. Another teacher, another kid and
he was videotaped.
PINSKY: Loni.
[19:25:00] ODUOLOWU: You do not do that unless you feel vindicated.
COOMBS: He is not feeling vindicated, he is feeling violated. And, what is interesting if you listen to the words, if I considered to be bullying
going on in front of the whole classroom --
ODUOLOWU: Teacher bullying?
COOMBS: Yes.
ODUOLOWU: Oh, Loni, how dare you?
COOMBS: Yes. And, he does not say, "Oh my goodness, I was not watching porn." He said, "How dare you walk in on me. I am the adult, I can watch
whatever I want." We call that in the legal terms an implied admission, which is where most people if you are accused of something, you would say,
"Are you kidding? I did not do it. I was not watching porn." He does not do that. He was concerned the kid walked in on him while he was watching
it.
ODUOLOWU: You really want to go deep into this Loni?
COOMBS: Yes.
ODUOLOWU: Because the kid claims that he did not see any naked body.
COOMBS: That is right.
ODUOLOWU: Hold on a second.
COOMBS: That is right.
ODUOLOWU: So, if you walk in and overhear a conversation, how long were you in the classroom for? So, that is why, I believe that the kid snuck in
there, spied on the teacher.
COOMBS: It is a classroom.
ODUOLOWU: I do not trust this kid.
COOMBS: It is a classroom.
ODUOLOWU: It is not his classroom. It is my classroom.
COOMBS: He had been in that classroom.
ODUOLOWU: The doors were closed.
COOMBS: And, the students are allowed to go in the classrooms.
PINSKY: One at a time.
ODUOLOWU: The doors were closed.
PINSKY: Troy.
SLATEN: The class had not started yet, and this little angel whom mom said is not a saint was blackmailing the teacher.
COOMBS: He went to the principal.
SLATEN: He went to the teacher and said --
ODUOLOWU: No, no, no, no, no. You are glossing over, mom.
SLATEN: He says I am going to get an A this quarter or people are going to find out that you were watching porn.
PINSKY: Let me show you more from the video from CNN affiliate WOWK. Here you go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOHN: What I watch as an adult is my choice. I will write you up and send you to the office for coming into my room without permission. If you ever
step foot into my room again without permission, it will be the last time you step into my room. Is that clear?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Loni, you bristled at that.
COOMBS: Yes. I am not saying the kid is a saint. I do not believe at that. His mother is being honest about that. They have had run-ins
before. Other teachers say, "Look, this teacher is a hothead."
I think the way he responded to this was being a hothead. He talks to the principal and gets call in the carpet by the principal. He immediately
goes, finds the classroom the kid is in, goes in there, tells the teacher, "I am going after this kid."
Walks in and starts going after him and lecturing him in front of everybody. Now, look, maybe this kid has gone into the classroom when he
is not supposed to before, but kids going into a classroom I do not see as a huge, bad thing.
ODUOLOWU: I do. I do. I do, because there is a thing about privacy.
COOMBS: You are supposed to be there to study.
ODUOLOWU: No, no, no. It is a big deal like when that door is closed and I am in that classroom, unless I open the door for you. There are whole
things about when I used to deal with kids, the classroom door would stay open so there would be no impropriety or any speculation of impropriety.
The door was closed, that kid is supposed to stay out. Do not buy the mom`s call minor daughter routine of my kid and this --
COOMBS: She was honest. She said my kid is not an angel.
ODUOLOWU: Oh really?
COOMBS: Yes --
ODUOLOWU: So, why did she go to T.V.? Why did she go to T.V.? Why did she take all of it to T.V.?
COOMBS: She did not take it to T.V. Somebody posted it on Facebook. Not the mother.
ODUOLOWU: She did not do an interview? She was doing an interview.
COOMBS: Well, because they are asking for it.
PINSKY: Show you more, we will see more of exactly that. The student was accused of attempting blackmail. Here is more of that video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARMELENE SHORT, JEFFREY`S MOTHER: His grandpa said, "You need to get on Facebook and watch this video." And, when I did, I was shocked. He is
supposed to be safe at school. That never should have happened at all. I do not talk to my kid like that. He is not going to talk to my kid like
that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That is a little different video than I intended to play, but that is the mom, again, being disappointed. I am doing television --
ODUOLOWU: Thank you.
PINSKY: But that is after it was provoked in social media.
COOMBS: Right. Right.
ODUOLOWU: But, again, the people that provoked the social media, it was not the teacher, it was not the school, it was another student. What I am
tired of as a former teacher and should be for parents everywhere, these kids feel like they are entitled to not only videotape everything, but that
there are no repercussions whatsoever.
The mom said she felt, "Oh, my kid should not feel afraid to go back to school," then do not do the interview. Handle it off camera. Go and talk
to the principal, to the school, the superintendent, to the district, do what ever you want legally behind the scenes.
PINSKY: Why would the kid be afraid to go back to school? Is she being ashamed --
COOMBS: Look, did you see the way the teacher went after him.
ODUOLOWU: Oh, what? The teacher is going to be jumping into the parking lot?
COOMBS: Now, he is going to come after him again.
ODUOLOWU: But teacher is going to jumping into the parking lot?
COOMBS: Not jumping on a parking lot, but berated more in front of everybody.
SLATEN: Maybe he is embarrassed that he got this teacher in trouble unnecessarily, that this school district did an investigation on the
computer and found no evidence of pornography on the computer.
COOMBS: Yes.
PINSKY: Let me show you the blackmail tape. I have that now. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOHN: What I watch as an adult is my choice. I will write you up and send you to the office for coming into my room without permission. If you ever
step foot into my room again without permission, it will be the last time you step into my room. Is that clear?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Well, that was not the tape I was looking for, that is the one that makes Loni so angry.
(LAUGHING)
COOMBS: Look, I do not think either party here is blameless. I think the kid did something he was not supposed to do, and obviously he probably did
go in and say something to the teacher. But if he was going to try to blackmail him, he would not have gone immediately to the principal.
SLATEN: But, he was not watching porn!
ODUOLOWU: Yes, thank you.
SLATEN: The whole point was --
COOMBS: Well, that is interesting, too. He said he heard a conversation between a man and two woman talking about a threesome.
[19:30:00] ODUOLOWU: How?
COOMBS: The district said they did not see anything objectionable on the, so, they might have still been something.
ODUOLOWU: But, Loni, how --
COOMBS: The kid might not be lying just because they are not seeing any porn in there.
ODUOLOWU: But, Loni, how did he hear all of this if he is outside the classroom --
COOMBS: He is not. He said he went into the classroom.
ODUOLOWU: That is my point. You have to be inside the classroom for a long period of time to overhear --
COOMBS: Not necessarily. How long does it take for a threesome to talk about a threesome? I do not know, but a kid could pick it up pretty
quickly.
PINSKY: By the way, there was some prominent Supreme Court justice was accused -- somebody accused of wrote a book about a threesome. Maybe it
was that news being reported.
You know what I am saying? I mean we are discussing it here on this show. Maybe it was something as benign as that. Maybe watching our show and he
heard us reporting about a teacher, about some other --
COOMBS: Then the teacher would have told that to the principal.
PINSKY: Maybe he did.
ODUOLOWU: Maybe he did.
COOMBS: Then he would say, this is what he was watching. When they searched the computer and did not find anything, he was watching a news
thing.
PINSKY: Loni, if you are an administrator and you think, what if they happen to turn something up until i have a forensic investigation, I am not
going to keep my mouth ship. I am not going to say, "Well, he was watching the Drew show and they were talking about it.
(LAUGHING)
COOMBS: If he had a legitimate explanation, tell the legitimate explanation.
ODUOLOWU: Why should he have to?
PINSKY: He may have.
ODUOLOWU: Thank you.
PINSKY: He may have.
COOMBS: Then they would be saying that instead of saying, we searched the computer and did not find anything.
PINSKY: All right.
ODUOLOWU: So, the 13-year-old who break and enter just entered willy- nilly?
COOMBS: Break and entering into a classroom.
PINSKY: OK. Calm yourselves. More, more, more.
And, later, breaking news. Tonight, police in Seattle say they have found even more human remains. Are they those of a mom who had been dismembered?
Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HILLARY HALL, WOWK NEWS REPORTER: A 13-year-old Jeffrey Province says he was the first student into his math class and observed his teacher, Thomas
Yohn, looking at his computer.
Later in the school day, Yohn barged into his English class and said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOHN: If you ever step foot into my room again without permission, it will be the last time that you step in without permission, is that clear?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HALL: Jeffrey says he cannot imagine to the school if Mr. Yohn were to return.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PROVINCE: I was afraid that he would do something to hurt me because I told on him because I might make him lose his job. So, that is pretty much
the reason why I am scared.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Student versus teacher, whom do you believe? The boy says he went to the principal after having caught his teacher watching porn in the
classroom. The school says they are investigating and that the teacher has not been in the building since. I am back with Loni, Segun and Troy. Here
is another part of the video. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOHN: He tried to blackmail me. He said, "Oh, Mr. Yohn, I am going to get an A this quarter or I am going to tell you are watching inappropriate
things on T.V. and I saw it." So, go ahead, tell. Is not that what I told you to do? Now I am telling you, you keep your big flap shut.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: There is that blackmail threat, and the mom says there had been friction between her son and the teacher. So, blackmail, bad teacher, who
is right, who is wrong? Troy, where do you come in on this?
SLATEN: I mean this is extortion. This kid has had problems with this teacher and he was looking for any little thing he could find to get that
teacher in trouble, to get back at that teacher who has been riding him, who has been giving him a hard time this quarter.
PINSKY: And, Loni, who has written the book --
COOMBS: I know.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: on entitled kids, rolling her eyes at Troy. Rolling her eyes at him.
COOMBS: What I am upset about, I agree. Look, this kid probably has issues and they have had problems before. But I listen to the way the
teacher speaks in that video and I do not think that that is appropriate. And, I know that you, Segun said, you know, I am all for shaming him at
times. I do not think that was the appropriate response.
PINSKY: It makes you cringe if that was your kid. If that was your kid --
COOMBS: Yes.
ODUOLOWU: But, you know what? Sometimes -- you know, my mother always said, what you are not taught at home you will learn outside. And, the
thing that got me was the mom saying that nobody speaks to her kid that way.
She does not speak to the kid that way. Well, maybe somebody should. The kid is 13 in the sixth grade. I wonder how that happened because I
graduated high school at 17. So, why he is 13 in the sixth grade? I want to talk about his education level and what is going on at their house, but
I am not cool with that.
PINSKY: We do not have the data on that, but your point is taken. Now, what about the kid who thought, again, felt it was his or her place to
videotape the confrontation. You mentioned they all have cameras. They all videotape everything. They feel entitled to videotape. There is no
sense of privacy or boundaries. What about that?
ODUOLOWU: I love that kid tremendously with all my heart for videotaping it, because without the videotape --
PINSKY: Did you just complaining about it?
ODUOLOWU: No, no, no. My complaint is that these kids have their phone and they have never had to look anything up, so they become lazy. What
this kid did was reactionary. They saw something out of the ordinary and quickly became a journalist and got it documented, so that there can be no
question of who said what or what the teacher did, and I appreciate that. As I always say, if you have nothing to hide, videotape me.
COOMBS: Well, you know, it is interesting, Dr. Drew. It shows you the status of our schools at this point. Because the school administrator who
made a statement actually said, "Hey, look, we want our students to report things if they see things, even if they need to use their phones or iPads
to videotape it." So, they kind of got an endorsement that, that is OK by the school administrator.
PINSKY: And, by the way, you mentioned the kid is 13, in what grade?
ODUOLOWU: Sixth grade.
PINSKY: Sixth grade. But, by the way, perhaps there is something psychiatrically or neuro-developmentaly logically that is not being
attended to and this kid is being shamed and punished. I am just saying.
ODUOLOWU: Why do you always -- You love to look for the good. Again, these are not shiny happy star ponies. Some of these kids are just bad.
What ever happened to spoil the rod and spare the child? I need you to start spanking kids --
COOMBS: No. No, no, no, no. The study shows spanking does not help.
ODUOLOWU: I do not spank.
COOMBS: OK. But, that is not probably a good thing.
(CROSSTALK)
SLATEN: He was a little too indignant. The child does protest too much, we think.
[19:40:00] ODUOLOWU: Thank you.
SLATEN: Because -- I mean what 13-year-old is not exposed to a lot more than what he allegedly saw on that video? He saw some talking about sexual
activity.
COOMBS: I am sorry. I did not know about threesome when I was 13.
ODUOLOWU: But you did not have an iPhone.
PINSKY: You what? Slow down. Hang on.
ODUOLOWU: If you had an iPhone right now, you would have more porn than Playboy channel.
PINSKY: Loni, what?
COOMBS: I said, I did not know about threesomes when I was 13.
PINSKY: OK. You would not have known what they were talking about.
COOMBS: I would not. Yes.
ODUOLOWU: Where did you grow up?
COOMBS: Well, I know.
PINSKY: All right. Let us leave this story. We are not going to resolve anything today that is for sure. But, it is interesting, because there is
a problem with kids being a little too precious, a little too entitled. We all agree on that.
COOMBS: Right.
PINSKY: By the same token, there is a problem with teachers not being properly supported, not being properly funded. I mean this is really where
the rubber hits the road with both issues, so it is very interesting. But I want to get to this next story.
Breaking news. Human remains found just hours ago in Seattle are according to police, probably those of the mom who had been dismembered. Back after
this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF KATHLEEN O`TOOLE, SEATTLE POLICE DEPARTMENT: John Robert Charlton.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Accused of killing Ingrid Lyne after a date. Charlton claims he got so drunk after taking her to the Mariner`s game, he
woke up on a Seattle`s sidewalk.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNIFER WORLEY, KING COUNTY DEPUTY PROSECUTOR: The CSI unit of the Seattle Police Department found bits of human flesh and blood in the
bathtub drain.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Dismembering the mother of three in her home then leaving her partial remains in a Seattle recycling bin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And, now more human remains have been discovered at a recycling center. Take a look at this map. On April 9th, body parts found in a
recycling bin, then just a few days ago, they find more in another bin just three blocks away, and today more human remains found at a recycling
center.
Back with Loni, Cheryl, Troy and Jason. Joining me by phone, Jim Clemente, former FBI Profiler. So Jim, it looks like this guy tried to dispose the
body by dispersing it in various bins. Is there anything about that pattern that means anything to you?
JIM CLEMENTE, RETIRED F.B.I. PROFILER (via phone): Well, I think it is pretty weak at times at criminal sophistication and forensic
sophistication. I think he tries to -- It seems like the gruesome aspects of this case, the dismembering, was probably part of a disposal attempt
that he thought would be effective. In fact, obviously it did not work.
So, that tells me that leaving the blood and body tissue in the drains as well as leaving the body parts in dumpsters that went to recycling centers
was not the most sophisticated thing to do. He also left the hands and the feet and the head. Those are the things that can be used to identify
somebody. This was not a very sophisticated crime.
PINSKY: And Jim is there anything special about recycling bins? Is it just that it so happened it was the day when the bins are out on the street
corner, you know, on the curbside or were those -- and so, they are going to get picked up?
You figure that is the most expedient way to get rid of these things? Why not just the regular trash or is there something about the way recycled
bins are disposed of that made it expedient or is it just random?
CLEMENTE: Well, I think you are absolutely right that the bins were probably out there, but it was the stupidest thing he could do. Because he
may not be aware, but recycling bins, the trash in them, they are actually gone through and sorted out.
So, it is the most likely place that this body would actually be discovered. So, I think, unless that was some kind of twisted way that he
wanted to shock people by finding these body parts. I think it was the stupidest thing he could have done.
PINSKY: And Cheryl, you are nodding yes. That is just stupid.
(LAUGHING)
DORSEY: Yes. It just seems really weird. I mean if you have a choice between a recyclable versus regular trash, which is going to go to a dump
in a landfill. It would just make sense if you are really trying to hide that crime, you would put it in a landfill.
PINSKY: Jason, this guy is an enable of it of the most sort of despicable quality. I mean, you know, I do not care if he was drunk when he did it.
He was violent. He had a history of violence. He exploited women. He manipulated women. This guy is bad news.
MATTERA: Well, absolutely, he is bad news. The circumstantial evidence against him is overwhelming. You know, the big question I think today is
where did he actually kill and start dismembering Ingrid Lyne`s body, because he did not do it at her home.
I mean, if you are sawing a woman with a 15-inch saw, then there would be blood splatter everywhere and that was not the case in her home. So, I
still do not think authorities know where exactly the murder and then the brutal dismembering took place.
PINSKY: I am betting, Troy. I am betting it was some choking, sexual, whatever. He is wasted, he chokes her to death then tries to figure out
what to do with it. Takes her out in the woods, saws her up and packages her. Now, I think there was even -- if I remember, the packaging that he
put her in was from her --
COOMBS: Garbage bag.
PINSKY: The garbage bag was from her house, right?
COOMBS: There was an empty box.
PINSKY: Allegedly. It is all allegedly.
COOMBS: Yes. Correct. Right.
PINSKY: But, again, as Jason said, Troy, there is overwhelming doubt against him.
SLATEN: Well, although everyone in the media and even here have already convicted him, there is no forensic evidence that has been released that
links him directly to a murder. Now, maybe like Robert Durst, he dismembered the body and disposed of it improperly, but we do not know for
sure whether or not he is the actual murderer. Maybe she died from some sort of natural cause.
MATTERA: Stop. Stop.
PINSKY: Jason. Jason, go ahead. Jason, please.
MATTERA: Stop, stop. I mean, come on, the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming. Last person to see him, he has abrasions on his chest, his
forehead, his hands.
He says, conveniently, by the way, he remembers going to a Seattle Mariner`s game. He remembers going to a bar. He remembers having sex with
her possibly, but then forgets everything else after that.
By the way, when police interviewed him, they said he was acting like an arrogant jerk, almost annoyed, had this attitude like, "Hey, man. Why are
you bothering me?" I mean, come on! This guy clearly is involved more than he is letting on.
[19:50:03] PINSKY: And, Jim, no evidence, no forensic evidence tying this guy in?
CLEMENTE: Well, I do not know that. I mean, you know, the hands are there. They will rip under the fingernails. They will see if she
scratched him in the course of this struggle for her life.
I think you may find that, but I do believe she was -- if she was dismembered outside the home, it would be really strange for him to bring
her back into her home, and then you know wash her body parts off. I think she was probably killed in the home and dismembered in the bathtub --
PINSKY: Oh, that is right the bathtub. You are right --
CLEMENTE: Yes. Somebody --
COOMBS: The saw was next to the bathtub.
PINSKY: That is right. The bathtub and the blood under the bathtub, the blood in those drain and tissue all over the place.
CLEMENTE: Yes.
PINSKY: I want to show you, guys --
CLEMENTE: It is hard to contain that.
PINSKY: I want to show you what one of the friends of John Charlton said about him. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFF HUFFMASTER, CHARLTON`S FRIEND: He was a totally different person when he was on drugs and alcohol. He just comes across like he is a pretty
normal guy, but he definitely has his demons. You do not really think somebody you know could be capable of doing something so sick and demented.
He deserves anything and everything he gets he has coming.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Homeless, drug addicted, failed treatment, manipulates and exploits women. Hmm, interesting.
COOMBS: And, he did not seem to have problems getting girlfriends. He had this beautiful woman. He also had a prior girlfriend, who they went out
for a quite a while. She said, he is very nice but when he got drunk, he was a mean drunk.
PINSKY: Next up, could this be an isolated case of evil or have other women been killed and dismembered by this man? Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: This story gets more horrific and gruesome by the day. John Charlton, accused of murdering and dismembering a mother of three after
having taken her on a date.
Tonight, police investigating the discovery of even more human remains, this time at a recycling center. I am back with Loni, Cheryl, Troy and
Jason. Jim Clemente is still on the phone.
Jason, do we have any sense of a motive here or was this just a guy who was -- Again, I keep thinking there was some sort of misadventure, because this
guy acts out on women. You know what I mean? Some sort of sexual misadventure that went bad.
MATTERA: Well, let us go back a few years when his parents took out a restraining order on him and he had the strange fascination with Hannibal,
a serial killer and cannibal. And, he told his mom, specifically that night that he could not handle the pressures of life. And, they were
afraid for their lives when he made a threat towards her.
So, maybe it got to the point where John Charlton really could not handle the pressures of life any more and Ingrid Lyne may have said something to
him on their date that set him off and he decided that he was going to murder and viciously dismember her.
PINSKY: And, again, I pointed out on this program what it takes to saw somebody apart. It is a vicious -- I do not have words to describe it.
Even just cutting through a cow bone, I think, on this program.
I do not know if you have a footage of that in the control room. Probably not. But, it is really gruesome just to even think about let alone
somebody carrying it out and cutting a head off.
And, then Jim, he must have wrapped these body parts very carefully because people did not complain that there -- this is sounding gruesome in itself.
But these body parts have been sitting there for a while. No complaints about or follow-up on a stench.
CLEMENTE: Yes. I think that is one of the things that usually leads people to human remains is the awful smell that has sort of a visceral
effect on human beings when they smell it. So, he did probably wrap it, and I would think that if he did this in the bathtub, he washed off the
parts.
So, the chances of them getting DNA under her fingernails are probably slim, but there is always that hope. There is also the hope that they were
smart when they actually got him and tested the scratches to see if her DNA was in there, because that would also help convict him.
PINSKY: It is called putrefaction. If you have ever been around it, it is something you never forget. Now, here is what we know about this alleged
killer, John Charlton.
Homeless. Ex-girlfriend described him as a mean drunk. As it has been mentioned, in 2006, the parents requested a restraining order against him.
And, there has been a history of multiple drug use especially crack the parents have reported.
To me, I just hear, you know, manipulative, homeless, people sort of -- whenever somebody has girlfriends that do not seem to get that he is
homeless, you know what I am saying?
That is such a manipulative person that is able to sort of, you know, gloss past that. "Oh, you sleep on people`s couch." You know, just for right
now. Well, right now I am just sleeping on Jim`s couch.
DORSEY: You know what? He sounds like a predator to me who can be very charming, very charismatic.
PINSKY: For sure.
DORSEY: And, you know, sometimes women are fascinated by that bad boy persona, right? And, it takes a while to really pull the layers back and
find out, who someone really is. You can disguise who you are for a significant amount of time.
PINSKY: And, this is not to come after women at all, but I have certainly dealt with patients that stay in denial about who the person actually is.
DORSEY: Yes.
PINSKY: You were shaking your head no when Cheryl said that.
COOMBS: Well, she said the bad boy. I mean, homeless and bad boy, I do not know. But apparently he had a lot of relationships, and he was
homeless all of this time and these women kept taking him in and taking care of him. So, he was charming and manipulative.
DORSEY: He was able to do that.
PINSKY: And Go Fund Me page had been set up for Lyne`s three daughters. It has already raised over $226,000. So, please do check that out. Troy,
you want to say something before we wrap up.
SLATEN: Homeless, drug addict -- oh, he must be guilty of murder. Maybe he is just the most unlucky guy. Maybe she died of natural causes in front
of him and he freaked out, thinking, "Oh, my gosh, I have got to get rid of this body or I am going to be accused of murder by the world."
PINSKY: Dismembering somebody in that setting, not a normal dude. Just saying. Just for the record. Whatever theory you want, Troy, you are
entitled to. But I do not know, just the cutting up part I got issues.
DVR us then you can watch this show any time. Thank you, panel. Thank you all for watching. We will see you next time. Nancy Grace up next.
[20:00:00] (MUSIC PLAYING)
END
