Return to Transcripts main page
Dr. Drew
Prince`s Inner Circle Lawyering Up?; Parental Abuse or Genetic Disorder?; George Zimmerman Selling Infamous Gun to Highest Bidder. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired May 12, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[19:00:19] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rescue needed for a medical at Paisley Park. Seven-eight. Person down. Not breathing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That was the 911 dispatcher sending paramedic to Prince`s compound the day he died. Now new details have emerged about that
day. And the days leading up to Prince`s death. The details revealed in a search warrant.
A local doctor, Michael Schulenberg who saw Prince twice in the last two weeks. Those two visits he did conduct some tests and he showed up here on
the morning that Prince was found unresponsive in his elevator to deliver those test results. It doesn`t look like Prince was doctor shopping. What
they`re looking at specifically is what is the relationship between this doctor, between Prince and also his inner circle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: And tonight, the Feds are on the case. DEA agents investigating Prince`s death are looking at the inner circle. Were
his closest associates acting like something like a drug runner?
Plus, the guy who claims to be Prince`s only heir, his rap sheet is extensive and bad.
Joining me, Kurt Schlichter, attorney, author of "Conservative Insurgency." Yodit Tewolde, attorney. And Kyung Lah, CNN correspondent live at Prince`s
estate at Paisley Park.
Kyung, the name Kurt Schlichter came up in the affidavit. Tell us what you can about him.
KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What we`ve been able to learn about him is that he`s well known in this community. He`s lived here for decades.
That`s how long he`s known Prince. He`s a performer, he is a dancer, he is a personal trainer. He lists on his LinkedIn that he is the Paisley Park
estate manager. He also was a drummer in Prince`s band. We know his name because his name was listed on the search warrant. And on that search
warrant the detective writes that she interviewed him and that he told her that Prince did make a hospital run, it was sometime in 2014 or 2015. It
appears quite vague in that conversation he had with that detective. And that Prince, when he went to the hospital, did receive fluids. We did
reach out to Johnson`s attorney. He has hired a criminal defense attorney. That attorney did not respond to our requests for comment -- Drew.
PINSKY: Thank you, Kyung. As Kyung is saying, there`s a hospitalization in 2014 and `15. Treatment with fluids, you may have heard that Prince was
hospitalized for dehydration. That is nonsense. Who doesn`t go to the Emergency Room and get an IV hooked up to them? What 50-year-old man gets
dehydration? It just doesn`t happen unless there`s some chronic severe medical problem. Now he also reported that an unidentified man was picked
up, man in his 50s, at Paisley Park taken to a medical center. That according to 911 call logs. And again, dehydration, exhaustion. If you
hear those kinds of words in the media, if somebody is under the age of 80, discount it. It`s just some sort of spin. Now, Kyung, when do we expect
the toxicology report?
LAH: Well, you know, Drew, from having viewed them yourself, it takes quite some time, especially when you`re looking at what kind of medications
that the person may have been on. When Prince first died, when all of this broke, and this happened exactly three weeks ago from today, when all of
this happened, what we heard was the medical examiner, the spokeswoman saying that this would take weeks if not longer. At least a month, she
said. Well next week is a month. But again, those toxicology reports, they are detailed. The sheriff himself said that they were going to take
their time. They wanted to make sure everything was done correctly.
PINSKY: Yes. Kyung, that`s what I thought. I heard the same report. Thank you for confirming that. I`m saying eight weeks. It`s going to be
eight weeks before we hear those reports. Thank you, Kyung.
On the phone I`ve got Brian Todd, CNN correspondent. Now, Brian, you`ve been investigating that inner circle as well. I understand that there`s
evidence that there may have actually been a third physician involved. That is to say the Schulenberg, right? The guy locally there, there`s
Kornberg who was the addiction specialist so called -- and now maybe a third?
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on the phone): That`s right, Drew. Investigators are now looking at the so-called like a -- of doctors who may
have been involved in this. Let`s first get to Michael Schulenberg, she`s a doctor, a family practitioner in the Minneapolis area. Investigators
want to know more about the relationship between Dr. Schulenberg and Prince because there is a search warrant that was obtained by the LA Times in the
Minneapolis Star Tribune which reveals that this Dr. Schulenberg did go to Paisley Park on April 7th and on April 21st, that`s the day that Prince
died.
He went to Paisley Park apparently to deliver test results. Investigators want to know more about the relationship between Schulenberg and Prince.
And they also want to know whether, you know, any numbers of Prince`s inner circle might have been part of that relationship. What`s interesting to
know here is that Dr. Schulenberg, again we said he`s a family practice specialist, he is not on the list of FDA approved doctors who can
prescribed that drug Buprenorphine (ph), which is said to curb cravings for some opioids. So, there`s you know --
[19:05:21] PINSKY: Well, Brian, I`m going to interrupt you. I was just going to say that the reason that drug has become an issue is that was what
was allegedly was in the backpack of Kornberg`s son, having been brought from Northern California which to me, I suspect that the certified doctor
was going to somehow instruct the noncertified doctor with the license in Minnesota how to administer this which is a bizarre and really problematic
sort of a relationship. I`m going to go to Kurt Schlichter really quick. Kurt, do you agree with me on that?
KURT SCHLICHTER, ATTORNEY: Oh, you`re absolutely right, Dr. Drew. These doctors haven`t lawyered up with the criminal defense lawyer. They at
least got to go talk to a civil lawyer. And a lawyer who practices in front of the medical board. These guys are in trouble. Everything looks
hanky about this. And Dr. Drew, you know because you`ve dealt with celebrities. There are a lot of doctors who don`t deal with celebrities
all the time and don`t get used to saying no.
PINSKY: Right. Well said. I mean that`s exactly it. Whenever doctors are making special deliveries, special hours, charging special amounts and
it`s somebody who is using substances, you`re in big trouble when you start violating those boundaries.
SCHLICHTER: Yes. When is the last time your doctor rolled-up to your house and said, hey, I`m here with your test results.
PINSKY: Right. That`s true.
SCHLICHTER: That doesn`t happen.
PINSKY: That`s right.
SCHLICHTER: You know, I think there`s a little bit of being star struck. And that`s when -- as a professional, you have to take a step back and say,
wait a minute, am I treating a patient or am I threating my own ego?
PINSKY: That`s exactly right. Brian, I am going to go back to you very quickly. Two things. We`re hearing the term drug runner. Why does that
term keep coming up? Number one. And number two, I don`t think I head you tell me who the third physician allegedly is.
TODD: That`s right. First we`ll talk about the third physician. The third physician has not been named. That`s someone who apparently Dr.
Howard Kornfeld was trying to get in touch with to try to see Prince in the hours before his death in an emergency situation. This doctor has not been
named, cleared his schedule but that appointment, that rendezvous with Prince to free him apparently never happened. So, that`s the three
doctors. The unnamed doctor, Dr. Schulenberg and Dr. Howard Kornfeld, the specialist who was called kind of in a panic on the night before Prince
died.
And again, Dr. Kornfeld sent his son Andrew who was not a doctor with some Buprenorphine from Minneapolis. Was Andrew going to give it to this other
doctor? How was Dr. Schulenberg involved? That is the subject of the investigation. That`s what investigators are really digging into tonight.
Now, on the drug runner investigation, yes, investigators are focused on the possibility that so-called drug runners, possibly people in Prince`s
inner circle were obtaining medications for him. You know, drug runners in the law enforcement freelance are people who basically act on behalf of
others, maybe get prescribed medications in their own name and then give it to a person, very often a celebrity. So, they`re looking it into whether
maybe --
PINSKY: Diverting. Diverting drug. Yes.
TODD: Diverting, right. So, there may be drug runners within Prince`s inner circle or someone else who may have tried to obtain the drugs for
him.
PINSKY: Thank you, Brian. Yodit, if you were Kurt Johnson (ph), going back to the guy we`re talking from the very beginning, if you are
representing him, he`s your client, everyone is lawyered up in that Paisley Park seen, I guess appropriately, what are you telling him to do?
YODIT TEWOLDE, ATTORNEY: You know. At this point, I don`t think he has a defense. I mean, think about it. When you are a Prince, when you are a
celebrity such as Prince and you have that kind of clout, you know, it starts to mess with people`s, you know, morals. It starts to mess with
people in what they`re supposed to do as professionals. And these doctors who can`t, you know, so to speak say no to this Prince who is godly so to
speak, they`re in trouble. And like Kurt said, they`re going to have to lawyer up. It`s a problem. At this point, I`d say nothing, I`d admit to
nothing.
I`d only talk to your lawyer and keep it as calm as you can. Because at this point they are in trouble. Because at some point when these autopsy
results come out, and if there is something that is illegal that`s been done, then there`s going to have to be somebody who is going to answer for
this whole thing. Because I mean, how did he get this drugs? How did he get it in his system? So, you know, it`s going to be very sticky for this
doctor.
PINSKY: All right. Next up, the prison inmate, he is a prison inmate, he is claiming to be Prince`s son. He`s quite -- he`s a rapper but he has a
rap sheet. And we`ve got proof and we will tell you what his crimes were.
Still to come, George Zimmerman cashing in on having killed Trayvon Martin. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:09:54] MELISSA KNOWLES, HLN ANCHOR: I`m Melissa Knowles. The T Mobile daily share at this hour. Some high school students in North Carolina will
have a new option for self-defense. School officials are going to allow them to carry mace and pepper spray to class.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To me, it was a safety issue, particularly for the female population in the school.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can actually hurt somebody with that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it`s just an accident waiting to happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KNOWLES: The school board member also says if the state`s so-called bathroom law gets repealed, female students will benefit from having a
defensive spray. The state`s decision to allow students to carry the spray starts next year.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[19:13:45] PRINCE: Welcome to America`s best described as what we`ve all been waiting for. I will serve as master of ceremonies for multiple nights
of entertainment that will feature some of the best artists this country has to offer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s a federal prison inmate who claims he is the son of Prince. Is he the real deal? Why is this coming up now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This man is a violent felon. He has a history of violence against women. His mother allegedly slept with Prince in 1976 at
a Kansas City, Missouri hotel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: The criminal who says he`s Prince`s sole surviving heir, therefore entitle to the singer`s entire fortune. Not so much of a Prince. He`s an
aspiring rapper so-called with a rap sheet that is long and really problematic. Back with Kurt and Yodit.
Joining us, Shaun Robinson, TV host and journalist. Now Carlin Williams, this guy, he is 39 years old, he is in a federal prison on a firearms
charge, he is due to get out in 2020. Check this out. His rap sheet dates back to 2002. It includes trafficking crack, holding his then girlfriend
captive, threatening to kill her, attacking a woman with a hot curling iron, auto theft, resisting arrest, probation violation, well, we got to
throw that in for good measure. Yodit, this is the guy that may inherit Prince`s legacy. What`s that going to mean?
TEWOLDE: Well, look, at the end of the day, being a criminal has nothing to do with what you`re actually legally owed. So, if he in fact is
Prince`s sole living heir, then he is entitled to all of his fortune. And it doesn`t matter if he has a rap sheet as long as he does have. So, I
mean, look, at the end of the day, that`s what you need a will for. He didn`t have a will.
PINSKY: Yes.
TEWOLDE: If he wanted his convict son, not to get all of the -- then he should have put that in his will. He didn`t have one. So you know what?
He`s going to be collecting big.
PINSKY: And if this say, this does proves to be the only son, only child, Kurt, do the other family members have any resource?
SCHLICHTER: Well, first of all, Drew, let me tell you, I`m convinced this guy is clearly Prince`s son. I don`t see how anyone can realistically
question that.
PINSKY: What?
SCHLICHTER: I`m joking.
PINSKY: OK.
SCHLICHTER: Come on! Come on! Look, this guy -- he is another lunatic. People get these all the time.
PINSKY: Wait. Wait. But Kurt, if he just does the DNA testing and there`s a match, that`s that. Right?
SCHLICHTER: If he does, the DNA testing and there`s a match, I will eat my suit.
PINSKY: I can`t wait. Now, I`m hoping there was a match. Before I was skeptical about it. But now I`m just hoping.
Shaun, there was a private memorial for Prince in Beverly Hills last night. You attended. Who else was there?
SHAUN ROBINSON, TV HOST: Yes, Drew. I was there last night. It was absolutely beautiful. I`m glad we`re able to talk about some, some, you
know more uplifting news about Prince. Because this memorial last night was one of the best I have ever attended. I`m talking about so uplifting
and so positive. It was actually put on by and paid totally by Prince`s ex-wife Manuela. She put this memorial together in the last week. And she
called on her friend at AEG to help with the sound system, and you know, with getting all of the lights and all that production together. We had
people like Gwen Stefani who was there, she was sitting in back with me. Spike Lee was there, he spoke so wonderfully about how Prince asked him to
start drinking Fiji water.
PINSKY: Yes.
ROBINSON: Yes. There was Tavis Smiley, he spoke. Omar, Prince`s brother. Prince`s half-brother came in from Minneapolis. And he was there. He
spoke so tenderly about his big brother teaching him how to ride a bike.
PINSKY: And Shaun, the woman that put this together, that is the ex-wife with whom she had a child that died, is that correct, no?
ROBINSON: No. You`re talking about Mayte Garcia.
PINSKY: Mayte, OK.
ROBINSON: And Mayte was seated right next to Manuela.
PINSKY: I see.
ROBINSON: There`s a friendship, a sisterhood between these two ladies.
[19:18:07] PINSKY: Yes. Mayte has been outspoken --
ROBINSON: Put on the entire event.
PINSKY: Yes. Mayte has been outspoken in her support of Prince and her affection for him.
ROBINSON: Yes.
PINSKY: We started this whole tragedy just talking about the way this man put people together. And on the positive note --
ROBINSON: Yes.
PINSKY: We`ve all spiraled off into the stories about addiction. I have followed the story because I thought it was important to bring up this
issue of opioids and --
ROBINSON: Right.
PINSKY: And how they`re taking the best and the brightest and the youngest all the time. We have a tsunami in this country where we`re taking 20
times the number of opiates the rest of the globe. And so, poor Prince is just another casualty and all that. But I`m so glad you brought up the
positive aspects. Go ahead.
ROBINSON: Right. But let me also say this true. When you talk -- we opened the show, you opened the show today talking about Prince inner
circle.
PINSKY: Yes.
ROBINSON: And I was around the people there last night who have known Prince many of them since he was 13-years-old. People in your inner circle
don`t go get for you. These are not people -- the people that you`re talking about are enablers. And as we know here in Hollywood, everybody
has them. But there is nobody that I know -- and I knew many, many people and I talked on your show about this before, that many people were my
friends today I met through Prince because I --
PINSKY: Yes.
ROBINSON: -- was around him so many times. There is not one person who was there at that memorial service who would have gone an gotten any kind
of drugs for him. There is not. And so when we talk about inner circle, we have to separate that from the word enabler. And the people that you`re
talking about at the top of this show were enablers. The people who loved Prince are angry about that. And so we have to make that distinction.
This man was beloved. He had a lot of people who cared about him. And that was evidence last night at that memorial service when people talked
about what a wonderfully generous person he is.
PINSKY: Well, Shaun, I appreciate you`re saying that. I agree. We need sort of a new terminology for that. I`m thinking about -- you described
that. You`re right. I mean, one, it`s sort of -- I don`t know. I`ll think about it. But I do appreciate you bringing it back to something a
little more positive. I`m glad we`re at least able to take it there as it pertains to Prince and his legacy. Thank you, Shaun.
Next up, a mother and a father accused of abusing their baby but the doctor who reported them may have gotten it wrong. Those parents are here.
And still to come, would anyone pay $5,000, get this -- for the gun used to kill Trayvon Martin? George Zimmerman certainly hopes so. He is selling
it. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[19:24:50] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This three-month-old baby boy ripped rippd from the arms of his parents. His mother Jessica Battiato and his father
Cesar are accused of child abuse. Doctors at Pennsylvania hospital say a body scan revealed nearly 20 fractures all over baby Cesar`s body. But his
parents insist they would never harm their new born child, they say their son`s injuries were caused by a rare genetic disorder that was not
diagnosed until after their baby was taken away. Now, more than one year later, they`re still fighting to get baby Cesar back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Baby Cesar has been in the care of the state for nearly 13 months. At 15 months of age he could be put up for adoption. His parents could
potentially lose custody forever. Baby Cesar`s mom Jessica, his father Cesar will join me in just a minute.
I`m back with Kurt and Yodit. Now, Yodit, you`ve read the research on this story. What is your reaction?
TEWOLDE: You know what, at the end of the day there is no higher sanction in family law than the taking of a child from the home and that should
always be the last resort. Now, of course professionals who work with kids, such as doctors and nurses, are required by law to report any
suspected neglect or abuse of a child. So, what they did here was appropriate. You know, you have a kid who over 20, you know, bone
fractures and then you suspect that it`s due to physical abuse and then you have to report it to the state and the state has a responsibility as well
to follow up with that investigation.
However, I think that it`s very extreme in this case when you have second and third opinions that are saying that this kid wasn`t actually abused,
but it had something to do with Vitamin D deficiency for example. And so I think that the taking of the child for more than a year from these two
parents is extremely unnecessary sir.
PINSKY: Yodit, let me put a finer point on this. I see cases all the time where kids are put back into homes where there`s been overt physical abuse,
where there`s been chaos, where there`s been drug use.
TEWOLDE: Right.
PINSKY: There`s been highly chaotic traumatic situations. Now, they may not be broken bones but the trauma to the child is equally as problematic.
We`re talking about what happens to this thing. This thing is very plastic in young children. And I understand the demand -- the mandate to protect
it. But Kurt, come on, now, there`s great evidence that this child had at least a couple of genetic disorders that can lead to -- it`s not the
Britain bone condition he had but leads to Britain bones nonetheless. What`s your reaction?
SCHLICHTER: Well, Dr. Drew, there`s an allegation that the child has these conditions. I haven`t seen any evidence of it. Now, you have a bunch of
doctors who have already said, hey, look, this is consistent with abuse. And not just a little abuse, Dr. Drew. This is 18 broken bones. Now I
understand how great a sanction it is to take a child from a family. That`s something you don`t do lightly. But 18 broken bones. If this kid
really has some sort of genetic problem, why aren`t the doctors who originally diagnosed him saying oh my gosh, I got it wrong. Let`s try
again.
PINSKY: That is the question. And I will just frame that question that you posed Kurt by saying the issues around bone metabolism, calcium
metabolism, calcification of bones, vitamin D, parathyroid hormone are extremely complex. I deal with it frequently in elderly patients. They
aren`t dealing with it very often in babies and I`m suspecting they may have had little or no experience with this.
I`m joined now by baby Cesar`s parents, Jessica and Cesar. Now, you guys, thank you for joining us. You must feel like you`re running out of time.
CESAR ESCUDERO-AVILES, CESAR`S FATHER: Definitely.
JESSICA BATTIATO, CESAR`S MOTHER: Yes.
ESCUDERO-AVILES: The clock is against us.
PINSKY: And do you feel me when I say I`m concerned that these pediatricians may not have had experience with bone metabolism. Which is
something that we deal it with the very elderly patient. Endocrinologist (ph). Adult endocrinologist deal with these issues, not pediatricians.
ESCUDERO-AVILES: I am. Actually I think (INAUDIBLE). There are many groups that have reached out to us and that we actually reached out to get
help on this and to seek -- to examine him and give us a diagnosis of what happened, what`s going on with him and what his --
PINSKY: Jessica, what do you think the explanation is? Oh, we`ve lost the connection. Damn! Because these two, I feel so bad for these two people.
But Kurt, I am -- who more than me is going to talk about defending kids from child abuse. I`m so passionate about that. But it -- just like you
guys in the legal system, you`re so damn -- well I shouldn`t say it that way.
(LAUGHTER)
TEWOLDE: Come on now, Dr. Drew.
SCHLICHTER: Dr. Drew --
PINSKY: Come on! Hang on. What I want to say is that you`re so passionate about making sure that no innocent person be accused of a crime
they did not commit.
SCHLICHTER: Absolutely.
PINSKY: Right. This is the same thing. This is the same damn thing.
SCHLICHTER: No. And you`re absolutely right here about that. This is a high standard they have to meet. Now, we have --
[19:30:00] The family has hired experts who say what the family wants said. Look, I`m an attorney. Among attorneys everybody knows you can go out and
hire an expert to say whatever you want said. The state has doctors who were not retained, who were actual treating doctors, who have no dog in
this fight --
TEWOLDE: Oh, come on, Kurt. No, come on, Kurt.
SCHLICHTER: Well, and let`s -- no -- there`s something else we can do, Yodit, and you know it. We can go and the judge can hire an independent
expert -- and there are great experts. Come out to UCLA, get one of their bone specialists out here.
PINSKY: No, I agree. Why don`t they do that? Kurt, I got your opinion --
SCHLICHTER: Yes, why don`t they?
PINKSY: What`s up, Yodit? Why didn`t they?
TEWOLDE: Why don`t they hire an independent doctor?
PINSKY: Why don`t they get an expert to really --
TEWOLDE: Hold on.
PINSKY: Yes, go ahead.
TEWOLDE: Right, sure, but Kurt -- Kurt also knows that these doctors who are witnesses for the state also have a dog in the fight. They do, too,
Kurt, and you know that. Not to mention this doctor had previously stated that a man had abused his daughter and that man was in jail for, what, over
400 days.
PINSKY: It was funny you should mention that. Let me interrupt you. Yodit, I`m going to talk to that man. I`m going to speak to him after the
break. I want to hear --
TEWOLDE: Oh, good.
PINSKY: Yes, that`s exactly what I want to hear about.
But I got the parents back. Jessica, what is your explanation of what`s happening here? Help us understand why you poor guys are in this position
and you can`t get to your baby.
BATTIATO: Basically they`re not taking into consideration the medical factors. They continue --
PINSKY: But why not? Why not? What`s in it for them not to? What`s the motivation? I don`t understand. Isn`t that their -- aren`t they -- Go
ahead. Sorry.
BATTIATO: We don`t understand why. We --
ESCUDERO-AVILES: Every step of the way when we tried to get the first opinion from Dr. Holloc, we got pushback. We actually had to have a motion
put in from our lawyer to request him to be taking the (INAUDIBLE). Thankfully the judge ruled in our favor and said that we were more than
welcome to get n opinion. But the same thing goes for a second and third opinion. They`re making it virtually impossible to go out and get a second
opinion or a third opinion on what happened to Cesar.
PINSKY: All right, I want to get further into this. Actually, next up I`m going to ask Jessica why, when she was asked to take a lie detector test,
she refused. She will tell us why.
And later, one of the most hated men in America is stirring up trouble tonight. George Zimmerman is back and he`s selling the gun he used to kill
Trayvon Martin. And he`s selling tight the highest bidder. You`ll love to hear why and what he intends to do with the money. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[19:36:50] BATTIATO: Cesar. Baby Bear. I see you. Who`s my handsome baby? I see you. Who`s my handsome baby?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: It is just crazy to me that the doctors would jump to child abuse. They should consider child abuse, but they must rule out -- they have an
obligation to rule out other metabolic disorders. Now, in a matter of months Baby Cesar can be put up for adoption and his parents could lose him
forever.
I`m back with Kurt, Yodit, and Baby Cesar`s parents, Jessica and Cesar. Now, Jessica, we mentioned before the break that you had refused a
polygraph. Why?
BATTIATO: Basically I did tell the detective that I would be willing to take a polygraph. However, I wanted a letter from him stating that my son
would be returned home once I passed that test. And he stated he could not promise me that, that he would be lying to me and I would have to deal with
children and youth services. He basically deals with the criminal investigation, and they round (ph) together but they make the
determination.
PINSKY: Well, let me bring in -- Jessica, I`m going to bring in the attorney, Mark Freeman, representing you. He is representing Jessica and
Cesar of course. And, Mark, you`ve had previous dealings with Dr. Cromwell, who is the doctor who really certified that this was child abuse
and not a metabolic problem, is that correct?
MARK FREEMAN, ATTORNEY FOR CESAR`S PARENTS: That`s correct.
PINSKY: Why did Dr. Cromwell insist on child abuse to the -- did she look into other potential causes of multiple fractures? Did they test for
osteogenesis imperfecta? Did they test for Ehlers-Danlos? Did they test for Vitamin D and metabolism disorders? Hyperparathyroidism? There are so
many disorders that can do this. Did they rule these things out?
FREEMAN: Well, here`s the interesting thing is this child tested deficient in vitamin D. But this doctor then takes the position that that has not
impact on bone health or bone strength, which I find illogical.
PINSKY: Well, there`s not illogical, there`s a name for it. That`s called Rickets Disease. Rickets, and I understand that this child even had the
bowing of the leg that is characteristic of Rickets.
FREEMAN: The baby has a lot of signs of Rickets, but I think they`ve stuck their head in the sand. Unfortunately, this doctor isn`t alone. I`ve seen
it in multiple cases, even with other doctors that claim to be child abuse experts.
PINSKY: But why? Why would they do that? I don`t understand.
FREEMAN: That`s a good question. All I can tell you is case after case where, when we start digging, we find explanations for these unexplained
injuries. And no matter what we find or when we find it, I have yet to have one of these doctors say, "We made a mistake," and change their
opinions.
[19:40:04] PINSKY: Well, let me get another sort of someone who`s close to this action as well. His name is Jamal Billups. Jamal`s two daughters
were taken from him and his wife after the same physician, Dr. Cromwell -- and, again, I`m not condemning Dr. Cromwell. I`m all for her being
enthusiastic about protecting kids from abuse, and even assuming abuse until something else is ruled in. But let`s rule those other things in, if
you can.
She examined their 3-month-old and determined that the broken bones were the result of child abuse. He, Jamal, then spent 414 days in jail and was
later determined that that child has vitamin D deficiency. And, Jamal, you spent over a year in prison for something you didn`t do. Please, what are
your thoughts here?
JAMAL BILLUPS, WRONLY ACCUSED OF CHILD ABUSE: Yes, yes, I definitely did spend that time in there. It needs to stop. It needs more light on these
situations. More people need to speak about this and put a stop to this business. Incorrect and I just don`t agree with it. It`s not right.
PINSKY: You seem pretty measured and sensible about this. Yodit, this is the gentleman you were talking about. Do you have any questions for him?
TEWOLDE: So, Jamal, what were the allegations against you?
BILLUPS: That I had shaken my daughter, that I had physically harmed my child.
PINSKY: And that the shaking, it was a shaken child syndrome where it resulted in bone fractures, not bleeding in the head, right?
BILLUPS: No.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Jamal, go ahead and finish.
BILLUPS: Yes, it was shaken baby syndrome is what they charged me with.
PINSKY: Now, Yodit, you know that`s also associated with bleeding, bring my brain out again, between the skull and the brain. Right here on top of
the brain. I don`t know if that was involved here. That`s a different disorder than what we`ve been talking about with these fractured bones.
But, Yodit, what`s going on? Is there just excessive enthusiasm? Is it a bureaucratic issue? What is it?
TEWOLDE: It`s so easy for families to get tied up with the state when it comes to issues of child abuse. And it`s so hard to get out of them. And
this doctor, there`s a credibility issue here. You know, case in point in Jamal`s case. She was so adamant to say that, you know what, this
individual abused their daughter. And guess what? That wasn`t the case. And that doctor, very same doctor, isn`t even trying to consider other
alternatives for Baby Cesar`s injuries at this point.
PINSKY: Maybe, maybe -- I`m trying to figure it out. Kurt, maybe she`s taken the opinion that there may be some bone disorder and a shaken baby,
which is why all of the multiple fractures.
SCHLICHTER: hat makes sense, Dr. Drew. Now, you`re doing a great job of cross-examining the expert witness, which is what we do as lawyers. You
make them prove their case. I think that`s great and i the state wants to take this child, it needs to submit to that kind of examination. I`m very
concerned about the lack of any kind of independent expert.
PINSKY: Right. Right. I agree.
SCHLICHTER: Mr. Freeman is representing his client, as he should. He`s hiring an expert to give a story that`s consistent with his story. I`d
like to see someone from outside. Because, Dr. Drew, the one fact we know is we have a baby with 18 broken bones. Something`s wrong. We need to
find out what it is.
PINSKY: And that something wrong may be the metabolism of the bone.
Jessica and Cesar, have you been able even to see our baby or visit?
BATTIATO: Yes, we do see him twice a week for a total -- yes, two hours. Yes.
PINSKY: At least there`s that, but, my god, two hours must just be torture when you have to leave.
Listen, you guys, thank you are for joining us. I appreciate our so-called expert witnesses here that was cross-examined by Yodit.
Next up, George Zimmerman is selling the gun he used to kill Trayvon Martin and wait till you hear what he would like to do with that money. Back
after this.
[19:44:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN, 911 CALL: This guy looks like he`s up to no good. Now he`s coming towards me.
WITNESS: I don`t know what`s going on.
DISPATCHER: Are you following him?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
DISPATCHER: OK, we don`t need you to do that.
ZIMMERMAN: He reached for it. He reached for it. I felt his arm going down to his side.
DISPATCHER: Do you think he`s yelling help?
WITNESS: Yes.
DISPATCHER: All right, what is your --
(GUNSHOT)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Charging George Zimmerman with murder in the second degree.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: God did not have a plan for Trayvon to die.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We the jury find George Zimmerman not guilty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: George Zimmerman now trying to profit from the gun he used to kill Trayvon Martin. He is auctioning the weapon to the highest bidder.
Starting bid $5,000.
Back with Kurt and Yodit. Now, Kurt, one website has already pulled down Zimmerman`s post so he put up another one. My question is -- is there
anything anybody can do about this? Should he be allowed to sell the gun? What do we do with this?
SCHLICHTER: Well, look, it`s his gun. He can do what he wants. But let`s be really clear -- this is tacky and disgraceful. What kind of -- you
know, I`m not going to relitigate the whole Trayvon Martin shooting. He was found not guilty of any crime. It was a legitimate shooting under the
law.
That doesn`t make it something you`re proud of or happy about. You know, I`m so disgusted, Dr. Drew. As someone who supports the Second Amendment,
supports our right to keep and bear arms to defend ourselves and our families and our communities, that people like us, hundreds or tens of
millions of people like us, are represented by this buffoon.
PINSKY: All right, Yodit, you agree with that? Is that a sufficient reaction or should we even be more outraged?
TEWOLDE: More outraged. But no, I completely agree with Kurt. And I`m kind of annoyed, Dr. Drew, that we have to talk about this man. That we
have to continuously give him attention, because that`s all he`s ever wanted since he was acquitted in 2013.
[19:50:03] He has tried stay in that public eye since then. You would think that someone like him would try and distance himself from what should
have been the worst day of his life. But instead he has capitalized on Trayvon Martin`s killing to garner or try to increase the celebrity he
might have gained from it. It`s disgusting. It`s gross. And I hate to even talk about it.
PINSKY: Joining us via Skype, John Phillips, attorney. He represented the family of Jordan Davis. Jordan was the young man killed in the so-called
loud music case.
Now, you say George Zimmerman should not even be allowed to sell the gun. Talk to me about this.
JOHN PHILLIPS, ATTORNEY: Certainly. Because he was acquitted, there is a legal ground that I`m going to -- I`m going to catch some flack on from my
opposing counsel. But there are Son of Sam laws. There are murderabilia laws in place in four states. And there`s a senator out of Teas that`s
trying to expand them across the country, that prohibit these items that were used to kill in the public commerce, to actually prohibit using them,
sending them via mail.
And the laws haven`t been expanded to the point that it would cover Zimmerman`s gun. But we certainly node to see it go in that direction.
PINKSY: Now here`s what Zimmerman posted on the website. Quote, "I`m honored and humbled to announce the sale of an American firearm icon. The
firearm for sale is the firearm that was used to defend my life and end the brutal attack from Trayvon Martin. The firearm is fully functional, as the
attempts by the Department of Justice on behalf of B. Hussein Obama to render the firearm inoperable were thwarted by my phenomenal defense
attorney."
So, Yodit, it was the president that was going after Zimmerman.
TEWOLDE: He is on idiot. He is an idiot. He doesn`t know what he`s talking about t. And the fact that he is trying to somehow justify him
selling this gun as an American icon, in what way? That was the worst thing that could have possibly happened. In what way? We`re giving him
too much attention, Dr. Drew. I mean, seriously. This is the reason -- he`s probably trending right now. This is what he wants. It`s gross, why
are we talking about it?
PINSKY: Let me show you his explanation. This is Zimmerman`s explanation for why he is selling the gun. Here we go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZIMMERMAN: And I thought it was time to move past the firearm, and if I sell it and it sells, I move past it. What I have decided to do is not
cower. I`m a free American and I can do what I`d like with my possessions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And, John, your point is that we should not be making a market in the sale of iconic weapons of violence and crime, right?
PHILLIPS: Correct. Can you go on websites right now, I`m not even going to promote them, and buy items that were used in schoolhouse shootings.
It`s appalling. And if he wants to sell it, go pawn it or go turn it in at a gun buyback. Don`t try to increase the value of it based upon the murder
of Trayvon Martin. That`s the issue.
PINKSY: All right. Kurt, last thoughts, real quick. I got to go to break.
SCHLICHTER: It`s just disgraceful. I support the right to keep and bear arms. This guy is an embarrassment. We know his name. We don`t know the
citizen who used his concealed weapon to save the lives of more people when that guy went on a knife murder spree in Massachusetts. Why do we know
Zimmerman? Why don`t we know that hero?
PINSKY: We`re right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:57:39] PINSKY: George Zimmerman auctioning off the gun he used, the one he used, the very one, to kill Trayvon Martin.
Yodit, what do you think he`s, in his mind, he`s doing?
TEWOLD: Oh, in his mind, he just wants attention. I think sadly this is the only thing that defines this individual. Let`s remember, he took it
upon himself to call himself, what, a community cop? He wants to assert himself so badly. He wants people to pay attention to him. He`s crying
out for attention.
This has been all been -- this has been evident through his tweets. We all know what he has been tweeting. He retweeted a photo of Trayvon Martin`s
body, you remember that? He also threatened people on Twitter, saying the last guy that said something to him or tried to hit him, you see where that
left him.
This is a person that tries to get attention, whether bad or good. But it`s all been negative. He`s violent. I do think that -- I`ve got to
respect the jury`s decision as an attorney. However, they got it wrong. And we`re allowing this person to now benefit from this killing, this
murder, and it`s driving sales as we speak. I`m sure that the sale of this gun is going to peak after today. And I just wish that we would just shut
it down.
PINSKY: And, John, there`s no way -- really way to do that until that legislation ambles through, right?
PHILLIPS: That`s right. Public opinion weighed in today and they shut it down from gunbroker.com. That was the right thing and e-mail and
everything else, you know, was the pressure that created the diamond that took it off that site. And I sent an e-mail out at 3:00 a.m. I was one of
them, and will keep doing it to protect the memory of Trayvon and to keep items like this, you know, from being bartered in the open market. It`s
just disgusting.
PINSKY: He said some of the money`s going to go toward fighting alleged violence against law enforcement, specifically by Black Lives Matters
movement. I don`t understand. Oh, also anti-firearm rhetoric made by Hillary Clinton. I don`t understand how he`s going to direct the funds
that way.
But thank you, guys. Thank you, panel.
Reminder, I had a very nice episode. I had a great opportunity last night to share the stage with Anderson Cooper and Sanjay Gupta. We did an episode
about the -- the profound problem with prescription opiates in this country. And I`m a little disturbed by people pushing back on Twitter,
trying to bully doctors into their opinion. Stop it. You can`t bully physicians into their opinion. We are -- it`s based on science and years
of clinical experience. You don`t get just to force us to have an opinion based on your whim.
[20:00:04] Thank you for watching. I`ll tell you what I mean next time. Nancy Grace is next.
END
