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Dr. Drew
Opioids Were Involved In Prince`s Death; New Rules On What Relatives Have To Do To Get At Prince`s Millions; Police Say The UCLA Shooter Knew Whom He Wanted To Murder Including His Own Wife, Who Has Been Found Dead; A Teacher Admits To Having Sex Almost Every Day With Her Eight Grade Student
Aired June 02, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:16] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST OF "DR. DREW" PROGRAM (voice-over): Breaking news. We now know that opioids were involved in Prince`s death for sure.
According to the medical examiner, it was an overdose of, quote, "self- administered fentanyl.
Joining me Anahita Sedaghatfar, Criminal Defense Attorney; Dr. Williams Morrone, Medical Examiner and Forensic Toxicologist and Sara Sidner, CNN
Correspondent, who is live outside the Midwest Medical Examiner`s Office in Ramsey, Minnesota. Sara, this is not the entire toxicology report. First
of all, are we going to get that and if not, why not?
SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is a great question. I think a lot of people are expecting to see what we saw with Michael Jackson, right, every
single thing that was in his system. We will not get anything else from the medical examiner`s officer.
Why is that? Because the laws are very strict here in Minnesota about what it is that the medical examiner can release. They can release basically
two things: the cause of death and the manner of death. And what we have read through this report -- it is only a page, Dr. Drew, as you have seen.
The manner of death was accident.
How the injury occurred was self-administered fentanyl. The cause of death was fentanyl toxicity. And then there is one little extra detail on here
that you would probably want to talk about especially you being a doctor, yourself, and a lot of people talking of how Prince had hip pain.
It does talk about scars or amputations and says that he had a scar on his left hit and in his right lower leg. So maybe that gives us some sense that
there was indeed, a problem with his left hip after all those years of jumping off of his stage and doing all kinds of splits that he definitely
had some pain from wearing high heels as well all the time.
But certainly, this is all we are going to get. This is all the law allows us to have. And I know it leaves a lot of people wondering, "Is that it?"
I mean, what else could this be? But they are very clear that fentanyl toxicity is what killed Prince Rogers Nelson. And by the way, he would
have been 58 next week. Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: That is sad. Sara, there is a lot more to know, though. I mean, that scar on his hip might mean that he had a hip replacement or a hip
procedure of some type there and maybe that is where the opioids started, post surgically. You got to wonder. But again, I have got a bunch more
questions. I want to go out to Dr. Marrone. Now, Dr. Marrone --
DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC TOXICOLOGIST: Good evening.
PINSKY: Thank you for joining us.
DR. MORRONE: Thank you.
PINSKY: Is there any way we might be able to get more information? For instance, I still believe there has got to be a benzodiazepine here in this
situation. It is really hard to die of a fentanyl overdose unless you are slamming it, unless you are shooting it. Do you agree with me?
DR. MORRONE: Yes, and especially if he had sleeping problems. The most important thing is 70 percent of opioid overdoses in America are co-
prescribed with a benzodiazepine. Now, how he used the fentanyl is important. It is very important -- You and I know that fentanyl ordinarily
is a transdermal patch.
And you would not say if he was using it as a transdermal patch that he self-administered it. And fentanyl is never given orally, so you do not
ingest it. So how did he use the fentanyl?
PINSKY: Yes. It is interesting. I am watching you do the same thing I do all the time, is trying to read between the lines of the reporting we get.
Unfortunately, the press does not know how to do that. The medical examiner is giving us a completely incomplete picture. I really have a
billion questions yet.
But I agree with you. I will tell you what my patients sometimes do, though, to get very high doses of fentanyl -- what Dr. Morrone is talking
about is there is a patch that you wear on your skin that delivers fentanyl slowly over three days.
This was originally designed as a cancer therapy or an end of life therapy. It was not meant to be used in otherwise healthy adult males with hip pain.
And by the way, one of the things we do know from the report from the medical examiner is there were no other contributing medical conditions.
Dr. Morrone, can we at least conclude that?
DR. MORRONE: Yes. Because it would list them and it is one cause of death.
PINSKY: Right.
DR. MORRONE: And that cause of death is fentanyl toxicity. Now, people that abuse fentanyl try to get it in their system faster. So if they put
it in their mouth, they are trying to get it into their cheek. Buccal absorbing. And one of the only other ways is to inject it.
PINSKY: Right. And they did not say track marks but they did not say track marks, so, again, we are speculating, "Did Prince actually open these
patches that are designed to be given transdermally and either eat it, take it in his mouth or shoot it?" Now, my patients eat these patches all the
time. In fact, I worked with teen mom Amber Portwood.
[19:05:00] In December of 2013, she appeared on Dr. Phil to talk about her addiction to fentanyl, which she told me was -- I have not seen this tape
yet. But what she told me was, she was in the bathroom, the patches in her mouth realizing she was about to die. Went out into the courtroom and
begged the judge to put her in prison. That is how powerful this addiction is. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMBER PORTWOOD, TEEN MOM OG STAR: I was using a drug called fentanyl, which I am not going to give anybody any ideas. But let us just say, it
does not show up unless you send it to a lab. It is patches.
It is really dangerous. I opened up the patch and I would eat the patch. It is like a three-day patch. It is very dangerous. And I was using that
the whole time I was in there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And Dr. Morrone, she does bring up an interesting point. You cannot detect it in a normal urine screen, number one. And then number
two, what do you suspect is in his toxicology report?
DR.MORRONE: Well, when they look at the toxicology, there might be over- the-counter medication that are not at high enough concentrations. The key to what they are saying in the tox report is to try to give you enough
information to meet the law that this is taxpayers paying for this service so we need to make it public, but they are not translating the ambiguity.
If he had over-the-counter sleeping medicine but it was not in the toxic level, it does not need to be mentioned as a contributing factor.
PINSKY: Right.
DR. MORRONE: But the fact that they quantitatively found fentanyl at a level that they consider unambiguously toxic, he had to get it through some
supratherapeutic.
PINSKY: Right. He used it otherwise not just transdermally. Sara, you are getting all this? We are trying to interpret the report you are
getting.
SINDER: Yes.
PINSKY: Both of us still believe there has to be a benzodiazepine involved, because the vast majority of deaths that are not intravenous --
again, I am assuming this was not intravenous use, though it may have been. Add a benzo in there, that is where you get people dying. But it is kind
of weird, they died in the elevator. So intoxicated he fell down? A lot of questions to get into. What do you want to ask us, sara?
SIDNER: I do want to add this that, of course, it is an investigation still going on here. Did he have a prescription? We have no indication of
that yet from our law enforcement sources that they were able to find a prescription. We know that he was prescribed something from another
doctor.
But here is another possibility. And these are all possibilities that law enforcement are looking at. Did he get it from the streets? Because that
is how fentanyl has become such a problem in America with people`s addiction to opioids is that fentanyl has been sold on the streets as well
--
PINSKY: Sara. It is --
SIDNER: -- in pill form or in powder form.
PINSKY: No, no. It is sold with heroin. It is sold for intravenous use.
SIDNER: No, no, no. I have talked to the DEA -- I have talked to the DEA.
PINSKY: But Sara. Sara, there are no. Wait, wait, Sara. There are no fentanyl pills. They do not exist. They do not exist.
SIDNER: There are fentanyl pills. That is what I am trying to tell you. They do exist.
PINSKY: Dr. Morrone, are there fentanyl pills. Dr. Morrone, fentanyl pills?
SIDNER: They do exist on the streets. I have seen them in person.
DR. MORRONE: No pharmaceutical-grade fentanyl pills manufactured that are FDA approved.
SIDNER: It is not pharmaceutical grade.
DR. MORRONE: But then it is not an FDA approved --
SIDNER: It is not pharmaceutical grade. It is sold from China and from Mexico. It has been brought over to America. And the DEA right now has
administered a basic warning saying it is a public health and safety issue.
PINSKY: It is. Of course, it is.
SIDNER: That if they were to see these pills that they call NORCO.
PINSKY: Yes.
SIDNER: That they are calling NORCO, but it is actually fentanyl in extremely unreliable doses.
PINSKY: Dr. Morrone, correct me if I am wrong, it is not absorbed orally. It is absorbed through the cheek. So what would the pills do?
DR. MORRONE: That is right, because the stomach destroys it. Even though it is 100 times stronger than morphine, it really has very little or no
oral value.
PINSKY: Right. So pills do nothing. So that is why --
SIDNER: They put in your cheek.
PINSKY: When they put it, they sublingually -- so we are back to the same thing, we squirt it into our mouth.
SIDNER: Yes.
PINSKY: I think we are going to find that there will be prescriptions, just will not have Prince`s name on it. Anahita, I am sorry, I want to get
in this with you, because there are issues about whether these doctors have any liabilities, if we find doctors` names on prescriptions to anybody
around Prince.
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: There is a criminal investigation pending still, Dr. Drew. And the authorities are going to
look at that. They are going to look at, who gave him these prescriptions, were his friends, family, acquaintances?
Was anyone helping him get these pills? So I think we cannot rule it out that there may be criminal charges with respect to Prince`s death. I think
it is too soon to tell, but the Feds are investigating.
PINSKY: All right. The search for the will goes on. And, tonight new rules on what relatives have to do to get at his millions.
And later the UCLA shooter had a kill list. The professor he hunted down was on it and so was his wife who has been found dead. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I am not saying this was not drug-assisted or drug-related demise, but not because of the addiction with a capital "A," this is not that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKYL Prince suffered from a hip injury and was, quote, "In pain all the time."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Chronic pain should not be treated with opiates. There is no indication that chronic pain is usefully treated with ongoing opiate pain
medication. There are 50,000 young people are going to die in this country today because of these damn oral pills.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKYL I just fear that he got some pain, it became chronic. He got an opiates, and you know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That is exactly what happened to Prince. Now, Sara and I were going back and forth a minute ago about fentanyl, which is what he died of,
an overdose of fentanyl which was, quote, "Self-administered." This is according to the medical examiner.
But Sara and I were going back and forth about this new fentanyl source from outside our borders. Most of the health crisis is pertaining to what
is being sold for intravenous use. It is being sold and shut and sold as heroin and people are dying.
The pills that are available are sublingual. And there are all kinds of sublingual things available. There are actually lollipops of fentanyl out
there. And Dr. Morrone, who is here with me as well. You would agree with me the idea of an otherwise young healthy male on fentanyl is as bizarre as
an otherwise young healthy male being on propofol, say.
[19:15:14] DR. MORRONE: It is exactly like you said. There is no purpose for a young healthy male, and he is young by all standards. The 50s are
still young to be on a chronic fentanyl dose. It is reserved for hospice and cancer pain or if you have an allergy to any of the other opiates.
CDC and the National Institutes of Health showed there is increased heart attacks, there is increased fractures, there is hormonal disturbances that
are all related to chronic opiate use.
PINSKY: Yes. Listen -- and then the pain, the hyperalgesia, the pain is made worse. If chronic opiates, if there was science that suggested it
should be used or if there was evidence that it was useful to patients, it makes them worse. That is why I am so out of my skin about this.
I know people on -- now if you are taking two Vicodin a day and your pain is controlled, you really are not even a chronic pain patient at that
point. You are somebody who has got some mild chronic pain that is controlled by opiates.
You keep on going. But if you have escalating doses of opiates over time and your pain is seemingly never going away, the opiates are causing the
pain. Anahita, you have a question for me?
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes. I was wondering, do you know what was wrong with him? Why was he taking this fentanyl?
PINSKY: Yes. This story that we see all together too often, which is I am going to predict that if he had that hip replacement, that scar on his hip
is a hip replacement or some sort of hip stabilizing procedure, that he got on opiates post-op, the pain never seemed to go away. He kept going with
the opiates and finally it escalated into a severe dependency and maybe an addiction that killed him.
Dr. Morrone, the fact that he died in an elevator in sort of street clothes, does that strike you as bizarre? I mean, usually, we see people
in bed taking an opiate and a benzo and then they do not breathe. This is somebody who is standing in an elevator. Go ahead.
DR.MORRONE: Here is why it is exactly what you said. It is an unexpected position and location and condition of the body. So that says to me that
the impact of the fentanyl was so fast acting after it was taken because that is why people use fentanyl. It is very fast acting. That he was
caught off guard. He either took too much by accident or he took too much in a premeditated event. But the condition and the clothes, it shows he
was unprepared.
PINSKY: And not only that, but he did not just fall over dead. He probably fell over because he was intoxicated, then was asleep or something
and then stopped breathing. Now, the financial -- his music sales have skyrocketed, so as the number of people claiming to be his rightful heirs.
Joining me, Jasmine Simpkins, Senior Producer, reporter from Hiphollywood.com. On the phone, I also have Ari Morse, Morse Genealogical
Services. Mr. Morse, the company, I guess, is being bombarded with calls?
ARI MORSE, VETTING POTENTIAL PRINCE HEIRS: Yes, Dr. Drew. We are getting a ridiculous number of calls. People are coming out of the woodwork trying
to reach out to attempt to claim their rightful inheritance.
PINSKY: And jasmine, at the time of his death, his estate is valued to be upwards of $150 million. But there is more than that, right?
JASMINE SIMPKINS, SR. PRODUCER & REPORTER, HIPHOLLYWOOD.COM: Yes, Drew, much, much more. The value of the music catalog, which includes potential
licensing fees, royalties, sales from his 30-plus albums, they are saying that could be around somewhere $500 million. And do not forget about the
music that is in that secret vault or not so secret fault.
Plus in the first week after the death, he sold 4.4 million songs and albums. And the week before his death, he only sold 19,000. So this is a
classic case of people wanting more of the music and the artist being, you know, worth more dead than alive.
PINSKY: And Ari, I imagine when people like Jasmine report what is going on, the estate is getting bigger, more people will come after your
services?
MORSE: Absolutely. Like I was saying, we are getting e-mails, phone calls and it is from people that think that they may have been related -- they
think they may have met a family member at one point in time, they are from the part of Louisiana where the family is originally from.
PINSKY: Wow, crazy. It is very crazy. Anahita, you are shaking your head.
SEDAGHATFAR: Of course, so many people -- hundreds of people have come forward now trying to claim they are somehow related to Prince, that they
deserve some of this inheritance.
PINSKY: I may put you on a stop. Was not there a new judgment today of some type about the requirements for accessing the -- or even being
considered to be accessing the estate?
SEDAGHATFAR: I am not sure, but I know the court required that DNA tests be taken. And, I think it is just going to come down to the DNA test. And
they are requiring it, but some of these people actually pay for the DNA test.
So maybe that is the way to sort of vet out the people that are not being that credible. But I think it is just going to come down to that. And
there is one individual who claims he is Prince`s biological son, Dr. Drew.
[19:20:07] PINSKY: Right. We reported on him.
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes.
PINSKY: He is in prison. He has got quite a track record. Jasmine, any update on the guy that may put this whole thing to a stop?
SIMPKINS: Well, you know, he is saying that his mother told him about her relationship with Prince. And he is very certain that his mother is
telling the truth. We even heard the woman speak.
And she has a story, an account of meeting Prince Rogers Nelson years ago, them having a relationship. And she birthed this child. So we are all
waiting for this DNA test results to see if her story really holds out to be true.
PINSKY: The birthed this child and this guy has been in prison multiple times. It is quite a crazy story, but we will keep an eye on that.
SIMPKINS: Yes.
PINSKY: OK, thank you, panel.
Next up, the so-called kill list. Police say the UCLA shooter knew whom he wanted to murder including his own wife, who has been found dead. I have a
bizarre personal connection to the story.
And later, a teacher admits to having sex almost every day with her eigth- grade student. The boy`s parents, well, they approve. Impossible. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: We are having a technical problem. We have a bombshell. Police say, the so-called kill-list has led them to a second victim, who was
married. We do not know if she is still married, but at least had been married to the gunman. Apparently, it is his own wife and he shot and
killed her.
The Hennepin County Communications Officer says the gunman was married to woman named Ashley Hasti. According to WCCO in Minneapolis, the dead woman
has the same name. In other words, the gunman apparently murdered her then drove across country with his weapons in tow, hunting cold bloodedly
Professor Klug.
Back with Anahita. Joining us, Tiffanie Davis Henry, Psychotherapist and Kyung Lah, CNN Correspondent, who has been covering this story. Kyung,
this is not some sort of teacher/student dispute. This is something much bigger.
KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Something that appears to have at least have been a prepared hit for some time. And, the reason why the LAPD is coming
on this theory is because originally that is what it looked like.
It was a student/teacher dispute, that he sought out this particular professor, Professor Klug, going to his fourth floor office and then
gunning him down before turning the gun on himself.
But then investigators found a note beyond the other ammunition and the other gun that was found in the backpack. There was also a note. A note
that said, someone check on his cat.
So local police in Minnesota were dispatched to the gunman`s house in Minnesota. When they got there, that is when they found this list that you
are referring to, this kill list. On that list were three names that we know of, that the LAPD told us.
They say that it was the professor he ended up killing, a UCLA professor that the gunman had known three years ago, that he had not had day-to-day
contact for some time. He killed him. There was a second UCLA professor who we could not find. That professor happened to be off campus yesterday.
That professor is doing fine. That professor is alive. We are told by the LAPD. And then a third woman. The woman that you are talking about. They
dispatched people -- officers to her house and then when they got to her house, they found that woman dead.
Now, as you reference these court records, the marriage records, there was that woman who is being identified to us as Ashley Hasti. She was married
to a man who is the gunman, but at this point CNN has not independently confirmed that the woman who was inside that house was indeed Ashley Hasti.
PINSKY: Kying, thank you for that report. There is also a bizarre personal twist. The gunman`s first victim, this woman you are talking
about, Kyung, had a Facebook page and it featured my photo, which when I came upon it, I found it is very bizarre when you see that.
It is says, "Whenever I get discouraged in my studies, I think of -- sit back and think of my hero. I appreciate the kind words, but you just
realize how sad this is. And then I started thinking maybe that his wife and she is posting some of that, perhaps one of the hit lists included
myself.
Joining us via Skype, Ron Martinelli, Forensic Criminologist and retired police detective. So Ron, to my -- I will let you give your sort of
profile on this guy. But he was clearly delusional. He probably is psychotic and something -- this escalated into something far greater than
just an argument.
RON MARTINELLI, PH.D., FORENSIC CRIMINOLOGIST: Yes, exactly, doctor, you know, 90 percent of the suicide completers have some diagnosis of mental
illness or -- and/or drug abuse. I refer to people like Mr. Sarkar as ticking time bombs.
I have written a lot about these people. I have also written a lot about suicidality. And when we go back over this thing now and I am sure the
police are involved in this, we do what is called a psychological autopsy on this individual.
And I am sure that we are going to find during the course of the next few days a lot more about him including, you know, cues to him being a ticking
time bomb, a slow burning fuse.
We are going to look for something referred to as a flicker moment or a trip wire, which is what we refer to as a precipitating event that caused
this to happen. And then we will look at the cues of homicidal and suicidality at the same time.
PINSKY: Tiffanie, I wonder if you have anything to add to that? I think we are both in agreement with that assessment.
[19:30:00] TIFFANIE DAVIS HENRY, PH.D., PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Yes. This is someone who appears to have been highly paranoid and certainly focused on
revenge. And when you have someone with the type of mental health makeup that we are thinking about, revenge is not just, you know, a tit for tat.
It is, "I am going to get you back. I am going to hurt you worse than you hurt me. And I am going to make sure you cannot retaliate against me. I
am going to seal the deal. I am going to make my last statement the end all, be all and then you end up with a murder/suicide."
PINSKY: According to Los Angeles Police, the UCLA gunman. His named Mainak Sarkar accused his victim, the professor , William Klug, of having
stolen his computer code, giving it to somebody else.
Of course, these accusations are, according to police, quote, "A making of his own imagination." And Tiffanie, we would just call that a delusion, a
grandiose paranoid delusion.
DAVIS HENRY: Yes. Absolutely.
PINSKY: And a fixed delusion where he consistently builds this story that does not exist in reality.
DAVIS HENRY: Right. You know what, Dr. Drew? We all have done this. When we have disagreed with someone, when we have been mad at someone, we
kind of start to think about what it is that they might have been thinking and we dream up these conversations that we might have with this person if
we ever able to confront him.
But for us, we understand that those things are not real. These things are not really happening. For someone like Mr. Sarkar, he does not seem to be
faced with his own reality and what is really going on. And he may have let those conversations that he has had in his head play out and play out
in a very destructive way.
PINSKY: And the typical kinds of thing -- and this is not to put aim at people with specific diagnoses, but the kinds of diagnoses that he could be
subject to could be bipolar, or schizophrenia, or schizoaffective or psychotic depression perhaps.
DAVIS HENRY: Right.
PINSKY: These are the kinds of things that lead to all this. Now, according to Los Angeles Time, in a blog post dated March 10th, he wrote,
quote, "William Klug, UCLA professor is not the kind of person when you think of a professor.
He is a very sick person. Your enemy is my enemy but your friend can do a lot more harm. Be careful about whom you trust." Anahita, It is
troubling, but there is nothing there to report. You cannot take any action on that.
SEDAGHATFAR: You cannot. But you have to ask yourself were there any other warning signs? Maybe not that social media post, but apparently he
had been attacking this professor for months before the killing on different Facebook posts, I believe.
So did anyone see anything? Did his family, his friends see any suspect behavior? Dr. Drew, this was not just a heat of passion rage killing.
This was clearly planned. It was plotted. It was premeditated. And you always have to ask yourself, could this have been prevented if somebody saw
something?
PINSKY: Well, I am going to go to Ron, who profiles this stuff. Ron, I am out of time, but please, very brief. I am going to ask you an unfair
question. Go ahead.
MARTINELLI: Doctor, very quick, these people always give indications. This is not a spontaneous act. They give indications to others that the
fuse is lit and they are going to explode. The problem that we have is, the friends associates, relatives, they ignore it or they think it is going
to past and it does not.
And then we have the trip wire, the bomb explodes and you just cannot put it back in the bottle. And that is clearly what happened here. I think as
we go further into this thing, we are going to find a lot more about Mr. Sarkar and his pent-up rage.
PINSKY: Next more on the so-called kill list.
And, later sex between an adult teacher and a 13-year-old student. Police say the scandal involved a pregnancy that she terminated. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN HOST: Our breaking news comes to us regarding that shooting at UCLA. You probably saw the breaking news unfolding yesterday
as a gunman killed a professor and then himself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (voice-over): Police now revealing what they are calling a kill list has been found in the shooter`s home. And they say the
list has led them to a second victim.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLIE BECK, LOS ANGELES POLICE CHIEF: In the search of Sarkar`s residence in Minneapolis, a list was located that had Professor Klug`s name
on it, another UCLA`s professor`s name on it and the name of the female victim that was later located in the nearby town.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Again, that note found in the shooter`s backpack led them to the kill list. The note said, "Check on my cat." Back with Anahita, Tiffanie
and Ron. Ron, what is kind of unusual about this -- see if you agree with me on this -- is the systematic sort of quality to this. I mean, kill
somebody and then drags his weapon across the country and then patiently -- usually people like this are much more agitated and fragmented, no?
MARTINELLI: Well, you also have to understand a little bit about his background. I mean, look at his -- you know, he was a doctoral student in
engineering. Those people tend to be very analytical. They tend to be very annal in how they look at things. So you are not seeing -- I do not
see any emphasis or any indications of agitated or chaotic behavior here.
PINSKY: Right.
MARTINELLI: It looks like --
PINSKY: That is kind of weird, right?
MARTINELLI: Right.
PINSKY: To me, that is unusual. If you think of the West Virginia shooter, I mean that was craziness at large. And this is not that, this is
something far more circumspect.
MARTINELLI: But it does not mean that mental health is not an indicator or precipitator here.
PINSKY: Right.
MARTINELLI: I absolutely agree the paranoid statement, somebody is stealing his access code to his computer. To me, that is a cue. That is a
psychological cue of a ticking time bomb.
PINSKY: LAPD Chief Charlie Beck just made some chilling statements during a press conference. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF BECK: He was heavily armed. Sarkar was heavily armed. He had two semiautomatic pistols, one that he used for the homicide and the other that
was in his backpack. He had multiple magazines of ammunition and multiple loose rounds of ammunition. He was certainly prepared to engage multiple
victims with the ordinance that he has his disposal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And Anahita, one of the curious aspects of those events around the shooting were the people were a little critical of the massive response by
the L.A. S.W.A.T. and various organizations, law enforcement organizations. I thought it was fantastic.
[19:40:06] There is worry out there that they may have left other parts of the city exposed. I am sure they are thinking about that, but I think this
finding if nothing else, warranted that kind of response.
SEDAGHATFAR: I agree. I mean, I live right by there. So I saw some of the police cars going by. And, I think they did a fantastic job, Dr. Drew.
You do not want to take any chances especially with what has been going on, on our college campuses recently.
PINSKY: Yes.
SEDAGHATFAR: And there was a big response to that press conference, actually. A lot of people turned this into the whole gun debate issue
again. Is that guns that kill people? Is it people that kill people? And I think that is a fine discussion to have, but let us not lose sight of the
real victim.
I mean this young man, this young professor was shot and killed. He was a husband. He had two young kids. Now, those kids are growing up without a
father. And I think that is what we need to focus on here.
PINSKY: Not only that, Anahita. I am glad you brought that up, which is that "The L.A. Times" spoke to a source, who said the professor, William
Klug, quote, "Bent over backward to help Sarkar finish his dissertation and graduate even though the quality of his work was not stellar." Tiffanie,
multiple automatic weapons. Are you convinced there might have been more deaths?
DAVIS HENRY: I do not see why we would not think so. Certainly, his kill list was very specific. He knew exactly who he wanted to target. And
thank God, the other professor was not on campus that day. And who knows, you know, if he did not find who he was looking for on that particular day,
if he might not have shot someone else.
PINSKY: Yes.
DAVIS HENRY: So it is unfortunate that everything ended the way it did, but I am so glad and so thankful that more lives were not lost.
PINSKY: And again, Rob, I am trying to learn something from this. Is there anything, the professor -- do you think he could have seen anything,
is there anything you heard that he might have been exposed to that could have tipped him off that he had a potential problem on his hand and what
could he have done about it?
MARTINELLI: Doctor, are you talking to me.
PINSKY: Yes, I am sorry, Ron. I beg your pardon. I said Rob.
MARTINELLI: No problem. You know, in this particular case, I do not think so based on what we know right now. But you know, I would also like to add
that just thank God that Mr. Sarkar stopped at one killing because it was certainly armed and equipped to kill many more people.
This could have certainly turned into Virginia tech. My company actually teaches active shooter response for civilians. I thought the police did an
admirable job. Better to have more there than not. I think they used the proper equipment. B The protocol they used was absolutely excellent.
And I think we really dodged, to use a pun. We really dodged a bullet on this one. Only one person besides the shooter was killed. That is a
miracle. Most of these people just blow up and they shoot a lot of people.
PINSKY: Thank you, panel.
Next up, a Houston middle school teacher, is she the next Mary Kay Letourneau? She is accused of having sex with a 13-year-old student,
getting pregnant, parents allegedly signed off on it. Back after this.
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[19:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Did you have a relationship with your student? Do you have anything to say about that?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: a 24-year-old woman accused of having sex with a 13-year-old boy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: They are saying you had a really relationship with your student, that he came to your house, had CPS. Did
you have an abortion?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Her name is Alexandria Vera, charged with continuous sexual abuse of a child.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEXANDRIA VERA, MIDDLE SCHOOL TEACHER WHO HAS AN INTIMATE RELATIONSHIP WITH HER STUDENT: I have legal representation and I cannot say anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: According to police reports, she admitted to detectives on having had, quote, "Sex on almost a daily basis," unquote, for nine months with a
13-year-old student. Back with Anahita and Tiffanie. I am joined by phone by Beth Karas, investigative journalist, karasoncrime.com. Beth, give us
the latest.
BETH KARAS, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, she was his sixth grade teacher, Dr. Drew. He was her student. And she said she rebuffed for a couple of
months his flirtations, and then finally kind of gave in. Agreed to meet with him, they were kissing and the next thing you know they were having
sex on almost a daily basis.
And his parents, according to her, sanctioned the whole thing. They were fine with the relationship. They were excited when she says she got
pregnant in January of this year but had an abortion a month later when Child Protective Services came snooping around the school having heard
about the relationship. She denied it. She had an abortion. However, it was investigated again on a tip in April. And that is when she lost her
job. She says she loves him.
PINSKY: Thank you, Beth. Anahita, who could withstand the overtures of a 13-year-old male. I mean, Anahita, Certainly, you have been in that
situation many times and of course, it was impossible to withstand those --
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes. The younger the better, right, Dr. Drew? I mean, this is really -- let us call it what it is. It is becoming an epidemic.
PINSKY: But it is bizarre.
SEDAGHATFAR: Female teacher --
PINSKY: I cannot help it. I am giggling because it is insanely bizarre, no?
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes, and the way she described it, that we were in love, we had a loving relationship.
PINSKY: Of course.
SEDAGHATFAR: He is 13 years old, Dr. Drew. And like I said we are seeing this more and more with female teachers having sex with their male
students. And it is just as wrong. It does not make a difference if the victim is a boy or a girl, but yet we are seeing this double standard, once
again like we do with all of these stories.
PINSKY: Well, I am not sure that is true.
SEDAGHATFAR: People are congratulating the boy. Yes, they are. People are congratulating this boy.
PINSKY: Well, that maybe, but they are very misguided.
SEDAGHATFAR: Exactly.
PINSKY: Because these young males end up -- Tiffanie, back me up on this. The outcomes of young males are very bad. But what is also interesting to
me, Tiffanie is that the way our culture goes, "Oh, they were in love." OK, then. OK. What?
[19:50:05] DAVIS HENRY: I do not understand -- I think at 13, whether you are male or a female, I fail to think that you actually know what love is.
You know what like is, you know what infatuation is. There is this sense of (INAUDIBLE) that goes on at that age, but definitely not love.
Now, she looks very young. She does not necessarily look like a 24-year- old. So I can see him being able to pass her off as someone younger. But I cannot -- I fail to believe that these parents knew exactly what was
going on and condoned it.
PINSKY: You know, I think our next big epidemic after opiates is going to be love addiction. And you and I, Tiffanie, have to give people primers on
that. In the simple most condensed version of what this thing is, just look at Romeo and Juliet, look at what happened to them. That is what love
addiction is. People end up dead because of love addiction.
DAVIS HENRY: Right.
PINSKY: Now, this woman said she goes pregnant, then got an abortion. But she waited until CPS started questioning her about the relationship with
the boy. Anahita, that speaks volumes that she chooses to get the abortion after she is investigated.
SEDAGHATFAR: Right. And they were having unprotected sex throughout all of this. And just to piggyback on what Tiffanie was saying, even if the
boy was making advances toward the teacher, she is the adult in the relationship.
PINSKY: Right.
SEDAGHATFAR: And you have taught us, Dr. Drew, it is up to the adult in these relationships to draw the lines, to draw the boundaries.
PINSKY: thank you.
SEDAGHATFAR: So I do not like the fact that we are sort of -- I do not want to say blaming the victim, but at the end of the day it is her
responsibility. And on top of that, not only is she the adult in the relationship, she is the teacher. She is in a position of power over him.
And that is the M.O. of child predators. They know how to pick their victims.
PINSKY: That is absolutely 100 percent true. Police say she first met the boy`s parents at a school open house. Later that night at the boy is
house, he introduced her as his girlfriend and the parents were just kind of signed off of it. "That is all right. OK." But the question, Tiffanie
will be, do we hold these parents responsible in some way? Do they have some liability as well?
DAVIS HENRY: 1,000 percent, Dr. Drew. I think if these parents did know about this, I think there should be some charge. I do not know whether it
is child endangerment or what it is. But they have knowingly put him in the hands of someone to perpetrate some sort of sexual act on their child,
not just once, not twice, but according to the reports repeatedly.
They knew that he was sleeping over at her house. They knew that they were having sex. They were happy about the fact that she was pregnant. And I
do not know any 13-year-old or 14-year-old who has parents that are happy that they are having a child. They accept it once it has happened, it has
happened, but none of them are actually excited about it.
PINSKY: Next up, the school has a history with questionable teachers. I will tell you about it after this.
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[19:55:00] COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: A 24-year-old teacher is accused of having sex with her eight grade student. She is alleged to have been pregnant. Apparently, the
boy`s parents approve of the entire thing. CPS now investigated the boy`s mother. Anahita, should he be taken out of the home.
SEDAGHATFAR: I do not think so, Dr. Drew. Without more facts as to what was going on in that family, I do not think the child should be taken away
from his parents. I mean, certainly, they should be required to get parenting classes, go to counseling --
PINSKY: Anahita. Anahita, let me give you some more data before you give us your opinion. Here is what one of the neighbors told a local station.
Quote, "She the mother, was having a lot of kids at her home.
There was drinking in the front. We always found beer bottles and beer cans on her side of the lawn and half of the teens did not look older than
high school maybe." I do not know.
SEDAGHATFAR: That is certainly a problem, Dr. Drew. But I think at the end of the day, I do not know if it does the child any good to remove him
from his parents. He has already been victimized once through this teacher. Get them counseling, get them help.
PINSKY: Two years ago at this same school, another teacher was arrested after she gave a student a lap dance in class for his birthday. Tiffanie,
the one thing they do not seemed to be teaching at this school is boundaries.
DAVIS HENRY: Absolutely not. I think they are teaching the exact opposite of that. And, I must go back. I disagree wholeheartedly with what Anahita
is saying. If this were anybody is child on my block, they need to take those kids out of that house. That child does not need to be there. These
parents seemed to be, if these reports are true, very irresponsible and ill equipped to handle a 13-year-old or 14-year-old boy.
PINSKY: Now, back in 2006, I am going to bring a little piece of tape from Mary Kay Letourneau. A similar case. Larry King spoke to her and her
husband, this of course was the boy she slept with when he was 13. Take a look.
LARRY KING, LATE NIGHT TALK SHOW HOST: You loved him before you made love with him?
MARY KAY LETOURNEAU, TEACHER WHO MARRIED HER STUDENT: Oh, and I believed him when he said that he loved me and was in love with me. And he came up
and he said, "I am in love with someone." And I am like, "Oh, please do not be talking about me."
VILI FUALAAU, MARY KAY`S STUDENT-TURNED-HUSBAND: That is not forward at all. It is more I said to her I am in love with someone.
LETOURNEAU: And I said, does she know?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Tiffanie, think of that pathology. If somebody walks up to her and says, "I am in love with you," she is helpless. Think about that. No
boundaries in in love addiction. My God.
DAVIS HENRY: And it is really, really sad that you send your kids to school and you expect for the teachers to be teaching them reading, writing
and arithmetic, not rolling around on the bed, Dr. Drew. This is not what they go to school for. This is not what they should be teaching. And
certainly these teachers need to find another profession apparently.
PINSKY: Marrying the guy does not make it OK. Anahita, 10 seconds, you agree with me.
SEDAGHATFAR: It does not, Dr. Drew. And I would like to know what psychological problems her husband now has as he has been abused by her,
PINSKY: It has been chronicled. It has been chronicled.
SEDAGHATFAR: I would not be surprised.
PINSKY: He has been having some difficulties. Out of time, though. DVR us and you can watch us any time. Thank you, panelists. Thank you all for
watching. Please tell a friend. We are here Monday through Thursday, 4:00 pacific, 7:00 eastern. We will see you next time. Nancy Grace is up next.
END
