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Dr. Drew
Amber Heard Versus Johnny Depp; Just Six Months in Jail for College Freshman Convicted of Assaulting Unconscious Woman. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired June 08, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:00]
DR. DREW PINSKY, DR. DREW ON CALL HOST: Accusations and blackmail abuse and $1 million money grab. Amber Heard versus Johnny Depp. The scandal
was very serious consequences.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On Monday the day she file for divorce and on Wednesday five days after the incident and two days before she sought a
restraining order and there were no marks on her face.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Johnny Depp and Amber Heard at war and tonight a new battle. Amber is filed a lawsuit, but it is not against Johnny Depp. Pluse court
records from 2009 revealed that Amber had been arrested on suspicion of domestic violence, but again not against Johnny Depp.
Joining us Mark Eiglarsh, criminal defense attorney, Jena Kravitz, clinical neuropsychologist and Kim Serafin, senior reporter for In Touch weekly.
Kim what we know about Johnny`s whereabouts and what about Amber?
KIM SERAFINI, SENIOR REPORTER, IN TOUCH WEEKLY: Yeah. Well, Johnny, it`s very interesting, he`s actually throughout this whole saga. He`s been
touring with his band in Europe, so he is not been available for question or for people getting pictures of him or people to ask many -- any
questions. He`s been Europe with band. His actually -- his band posted some pictures of him. He was posing at Dracula`s castle in Europe with Tim
Burton and some of his other band members. There was this surprise video actually that appeared where he was promoting one of his upcoming concerts
that he was doing.
Now his tour in Europe is ending. He won`t be back touring again with his band till July back here in the U.S. and there`s another court hearing.
He`s not needed to be there at that court hearing.
And now Amber was reportedly spotted meeting with famed women`s rights lawyer Gloria Allred and that was here in Los Angeles. And Gloria Allred
has not commented. But of course, she is who you go to for women`s rights, women`s issues, domestic violence issues. Of course, she`s represents so
many women who have accuse other men of sexually abusing them.
So, it would make sense that she was meeting with her, but again, Gloria are always office is not commented on this.
PINSKY: And Gloria of course is our friend. Mark the fact that Gloria`s getting involved. Is that signal something to you?
MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Before we get to that. What troubles me the most is that we, the public know that someone went to a
particular attorney`s office that bothers me. I don`t want anyone knowing the client to come in my office. There`s something called the attorney-
client privilege, which applies not just to Amber Heard, but all of us.
So if we`re OK with knowing what attorneys and she is going to, then when you go to an attorney, everybody gets to know. It`s just not right. I
have a problem with it, Drew.
PINSKY: So let`s leave it? Yeah? We`ll just leave it. I agree with you. All right. From 2008 through 2012, Amber been in a committed relationship
with a woman named Tasya van Ree. In 2009, Amber was arrested at SeaTac airport after an alleged incident of domestic violence against to this
woman, Tasya. Ultimately, the prosecutor decided not to file criminal charges. We have asked Amber`s camp for comment. We have not heard back
prior to our deadline.
Now Mark, will all of this factor in the prosecution of Johnny Depp, if there is in fact the prosecution.
EIGLARSH: Those allegations shouldn`t play any role. I think that the defense lawyers if they`re try to discredit her will try to use something
like that, if they find inconsistencies of defense some kind of motive the law allows you wide latitude to use almost anything to cross-examine
someone. But I think that the facts here speak for themselves, or should and that`s what this case should be decide upon.
PINSKY: And Kim was that a tumultuous relationship? Was that known to have been something that, you know, was not -- not connubial bliss, shall
we say.
SERAFINI: Well, it`s interesting because your ex-girlfriend did pout out a statement after this report emerged. Her statement said she really praise.
Amber called her a beautiful person and said the incident was blown out of proportion. This incident at this airport that everyone is talking about.
So, she was the first one to come out there talking this five-year beautiful relationship that they had and defending Amber. So I think
that`s important to know.
PINSKY: That is important to know. And yet, Jenna, we see a lot of -- and the signs. If you were evaluating someone that had a lot of fluidity in
their sexuality, in their personal instability, what would you be thinking about?
JENA KRAVITZ, CLINICAL NEUROPSYCHOLOGIST: I think that the emotional instability can land to potentially violence in any relationship. Their
unpredictable nature of somebody`s behavior. I don`t like to discredit anybody who is complaining of domestic violence. I think people should
have, you know, a right and feel safe to come to somebody like me or you and report that.
PINSKY: You support it.
KRAVITZ: Yeah.
PINSKY: Yeah. Now in the recent complaint, Jena, Amber accused Johnny of having "A short fuse." I guess it`s probably fair to say they both -- they
both volatile based on what we`re hearing at least, right?
KRAVITZ: It certainly sounds that way.
PINSKY: Yeah. And now Amber is also filed a defamation suit against not Johnny Depp, but Johnny Depp`s friend comedian Doug Stanhope, and now --
funny they throw a case against Doug, it`s me but I would not have done to Doug.
Now last week, Doug wrote a piece in the wrap.com where he implied she was planning to store Johnny. He said," Amber was threatening to lie about him
publicly if he didn`t agree to her terms. Blackmail is what I would imagine other people might put it."
Mark, Amber says Doug "Intentionally inflicted emotional distress."
EIGLARSH: Well and he would argue. I`m intentionally expressing my First Amendment right that our forefathers fought for and so I can express
myself, even if it`s outrageous and offensive. And I think that the courts will air (ph) on his side so there`s wide latitude for others to express
how they feel.
PINSKY: You know, Mark, and to be fair in that same article, he said, you know, he was criticizing himself for not speaking up sooner.
EIGLARSH: Yeah.
PINSKY: He was talking about being sort of in the inner circle -- and this is the heels of prints where the inner circle may have been sort of keeping
the information from being addressed, frankly.
EIGLARSH: Yeah.
PINSKY: And he didn`t want to be part of that.
EIGLARSH: Yeah I don`t think this goes anywhere. I think that it shows the court of public opinion that she is fighting back, but ultimately, I
don`t think the lawsuit has any merit.
PINSKY: All right, Kim, what do you guys work out on In Touch Weekly?
SERAFINI: Yeah. Well, again, you`re talking about all of these new things that are coming out. I think that`s what we can expect that this is going
to be a very contentious divorce, a very expensive divorce. Am I going to hear more details as just in this lawsuit that you`re just talking about
against the comedian. She revealed some more details about her relationship with Johnny Depp. This is something that we`re hearing that
everyone is hearing that we know more of these details are going to be coming out.
PINSKY: And I`ll get Mark back in before I let this go. There is that issue of if domestic violence is proven it extends the alimony or
something, right Mark?
EIGLARSH: Yeah. I heard Loni Coombs talked about that and in California. Apparently, there -- then is some kind of financial motive. The question
becomes, do the facts like the text messages and the witnesses and the photos themselves proved that she was a victim of domestic violence. And
the court of public opinion, most have suggested yeah we`re kind of convinced.
PINSKY: Next up, a childhood friend of the Stanford rapist writes a letter of support. Find out what she wrote and the steep price she has paid.
That`s next. And later, a beautiful blonde mirror twins with a checkered past. Now, one is dead. The other charged with her murder. We have the
explosive detail. Stay with us.
YASMIN VOSSOUGHIAN, T-MOBILE DAILY SHARE REPORTER: I`m Yasmin Vossoughian. I`m with T-Mobile Daily Share at this hour. Plenty of drama at the Salt
Lake City zoo where hundreds of people at a high-end bathroom the gift shop in other buildings after leopard escaped. A woman spotted the big cat
sleeping on top of the bin outside of its exhibit. Zoo official tranquilize the leopard and put her back in her enclosure. No one was
hurt, including a leopard.
Zoo officials say they are trying to figure out how the animal got out. And check out an amazing underwater image. Photographer Tim Samuel
captured these images of a fish trapped inside of a jellyfish in the waters off the coast of Australia while he was snorkeling.
He says he debated (ph) freeing the fish but decided that nature should probably take its course.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE GOLIC, ESPN: Does Brock`s father or this judge understand that a woman assaulted in this? At all?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It certainly appears dad doesn`t get it. His son is not going to be same happy-go-lucky, easy-going-self. He`s not going to be
able to eat his favorite food steak anymore. This is a steep price to pay for 20 minutes of action of his 20 plus years of life. I know it`s
infuriating to hear that.
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: I was found unconscious, with my hair disheveled, long necklace wrapped around my neck, bra pulled out of my
dress.
GOLIC: Do you see what he did, judge? The girl was unconscious next to a dumpster. And if it wasn`t for two guys riding by in their bikes who
stopped it, God knows what happened in this young lady.
BANFIELD: I was butt naked all the way down to my boots. Legs spread apart and had been penetrated by a foreign object by someone I did not recognize.
GOLIC: A sentence would be a severe impact on him. I think it will not be a danger to others. Oh do you?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Just six months in jail for a college freshman convicted of assaulting an unconscious woman behind the dumpster. The judge says a
stiffer punishment would have had "severe impact on the rapist," Brock Turner.
Back with Mark, Jena. Joining us AnneElise Goetz, attorney and Pat LaLama, Managing Editor, Crime Watch Daily from their newsroom.
Pat, walk us through exactly what is alleged happened the night of the rape?
PAT LALAMA, MANAGING EDITOR, CRIME WATCH DAILY: OK. The victim, 22 years old accompanies her younger sister to a frat party. And she admits. She
had some shots. She even says I felt drunk. The next thing she know -- she wakes up in a hospital bed and she`s got pine needles from her head to
her toes. She learns from the news that she`s been assaulted.
Now going back to that assault, there`s Brock Turner, who is laying down on top of her. She is motionless. Two grad students come by. He tries to
run away. They detained him. They say "You ain`t going nowhere."
From that day forward, Brock Turner has said it was consensual. He has never taken any responsibility.
PINSKY: Now one of Brock`s friends wrote a letter to the judge, she says, "This is completely different from a woman getting kidnapped and raped as
she is walking to her car in a parking lot. That is a rapist. These are idiot boys and girls having too much to drink and not being aware of their
surroundings and having clouded judgment."
When people write stuff like that, understand why there`s such sensitivity talking about alcohol because you can`t blame the alcohol for rape.
Now the woman who wrote that letter has faced such severe backlash. She placed in band and several venues have actually pulled out, cancelled her
shows, claiming they do not support "rape apologist." AnneElise?
ANNEELISE GOETZ, ATTORNEY: Well, I happy to see that we`re voting with our money, right? So we`re saying .
PINSKY: Yup.
GOETZ: . that we won`t -- we`re not going to support you, we`re not going to support your business because that kind of statement is a dagger to
anyone that is a victim. It`s almost impossible to listen to and all it does is perpetuate this rape culture that we have in this country and
specifically on campuses.
If you have two people that are both intoxicated, we have said, "Oh, that`s just college guys, that`s just college guys. That`s not rape." What he
did to that girl, 12 jurors has said it, the entire country has said it we need to have more education. The woman that wrote that letter doesn`t know
what she`s talking about.
PINSKY: Mark, go ahead.
EIGLARSH: True. I`ve been in the criminal arena for all my professional career, 25 years. I prosecuted these cases, I defended them. I`m telling
you without question this was a miscarriage of justice.
Aristotle defined justice is light cases being treated alike. This guy was convicted. This isn`t plea bargain.
PINSKY: Yeah.
EIGLARSH: This is after a jury convicted him.
PINSKY: Right.
EIGLARSH: And he got six months when the maximum is 14 years in prison. It wasn`t like the victim was OK with it. It`s different what she says,
"You know what? I understand." No.
PINSKY: No.
EIGLARSH: This judge ignored her feelings and I am outraged by it.
PINSKY: All right. So is the letter that really went viral? And you`re exactly right, Mark. Is this letter that has gotten everyone very
emotionally charged about this? The victim wrote a letter and the father wrote a letter. The victim is all aware of. The father`s letter to the
judge asking for a leniency said the following, "These verdicts have broken and shattered him and our family in so many ways. His life will never be
the one that he dreamed about and he worked so hard to achieve. That is a steep price to pay." This is the part got everyone. It sort of -- it
starts wit disbelief and it goes outrage. "Steep price to pay for 20 minutes of action out of his 20 plus years of life."
There was almost immediate backlash. Brock`s father is attempted to clarify this. All you guys hold on. I know you`re dying to say something.
He try to clarify but he didn`t do the best job. He said, "My words have been misrepresented by people. What I meant was that comment" -- wait.
"What I mean with that comment is a 20 minute period of time. I was not referring to sexual activity by the word "action." It was an unfortunate
choice of words and I did not mean to be disrespectful or offensive to anyone." Pat, he make it better or worst?
LALAMA: You can`t unring that bell, Dr. Drew. Come one, I mean, action. We all know what the context was. And the problem is, it seems to me
that`s how all his fans and proponents are seeing this case. Women, men, judges, everyone riding into the judge. Oh this poor young man. I mean,
you know, it was alcohol and they just made bad choices and people who are really still blaming the victim, still that mentality.
PINSKY: Mark?
EIGLARSH: I was ready to pounce all over him for what he wrote, calling it action.
PINSKY: Yeah.
EIGLARSH: But I am reading what he said here and I -- I actually get it. I don`t think, it`s just my opinion. I don`t think that he meant to say
that it was just action.
PINSKY: Well, you know what? We don`t know. We don`t really know.
(CROSSTALK)
EIGLARSH: No, no, no, you`re cutting me off because it sounds better to pounce on him.
PINSKY: No. No.
EIGLARSH: Listen to what he`s saying.
PINSKY: I do. I`m listening.
EIGLARSH: Do you really think that the guy would consciously refer to what his son did his action. I just don`t buy it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes he was. Yes he was.
(CROSSTALK)
EIGLARSH: I know and you`re title to belief. I just don`t think that .
PINSKY: But the point is. We don`t know what`s in his heard. We know .
EIGLARSH: Right.
PINSKY: . that we`re concerned that the environment in which a kid was weird and ends up raping somebody. You wonder .
EIGLARSH: I`m with you. I`m not defending him or his dad in any way for what they did. And it was horrible poor choice of words. The question is
did he mean to refer to that horrible .
PINSKY: I get it.
EIGLARSH: . act has rape.
LALAMA: What else can it mean? What else could action mean?
EIGLARSH: Exactly what he said.
LALAMA: What else could it mean?
EIGLARSH: Pat, I love you. But action referred to the period of time that someone engaging. He should have used a different word.
PINSKY: Like activity. Activity or something.
EIGLARSH: Yes.
PINSKY: AnneElise go ahead. You`ve been dying to say something.
GOETZ: I mean the problem here is, first of all, if you write it, stand behind it. He wrote it, OK? A. B, the problem here is he doesn`t want to
admit that what his son did was illegal. That`s the bottom line. He thinks that this should not be a crime.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
GOETZ: He thinks that sexually assaulting a woman that`s unconscious shouldn`t be a crime. That`s what truly blows my mind. Is that he doesn`t
see the fault.
PINSKY: Yeah.
GOETZ: No one is questioning what happen to her and he doesn`t see the fault.
PINSKY: Watch out everybody. Pat is sharing her glasses out of this. Go ahead Pat.
LALAMA: Well, what I wanted to say I think really what we should be talking about is what happens forward because there is this attempt to
recall the judge and I`m sure the lawyer is want to get in on that one.
But here`s the thing. The woman who is behind this effort to recall the judge makes the point that the judge misapplied the law. I`d love to hear
what Mark thinks about this. That the judge misapplied the law by taking into consideration his age, his big swimming career, and his over and
misused of alcohol which I`m not saying I`m a lawyer, but I don`t think you can use the alcohol business when it comes to applying the sentence.
EIGLARSH: OK. You ready?
LALAMA: Yeah.
EIGLARSH: I thoroughly, again, let me state, do not agree with what the judge did. That being said, the factors that he considered like his age,
his lack of priors, all should have been reduced the amount of prison time potentially that he served but still should that prison time and I think
the judge`s analysis like considering those factors were relevant what the outcome. What he did bothers me.
PINSKY: And Jena, finally, just you and I .
KRAVITZ: Yeah.
PINSKY: . are the mental health representatives here. There`s so much stuff going on college campus that effect kid`s well being and health.
This is just yet another example of so many issues that are out of hand on college campuses. And, you know, I understand the rape culture is top of
mind but there is really some things to be address on college campuses.
KRAVITZ: Now, first and foremost, Dr. Drew, the alcohol issue is a major player here because it impairs your judgment. And in those moments, not
only our college age kids, you know, people who have underdeveloped brains anyway. But -- then you had alcohol to the mix and the choices are even
worse. And so that`s the first issue.
And then secondly, I hear all lawyers talking here, and whether or not it was an unfortunate use of words from the father. His letter is so ego
centered.
PINSKY: Yes.
KRAVITZ: It`s all about him and the son. And to be honest, it`s not about the 20 minutes of action. It`s about the 20 minutes that caused 20 plus
lifetimes .
EIGLARSH: That`s correct.
PINSKY: Yes. Right.
KRAVITZ: . of trauma to the victim.
EIGLARSH: And worse Drew, the worse, here is the bigger impact. Ninety percent of college campus rapes go unreported.
PINSKY: Yes.
EIGLARSH: Do you think that a victim now is going to want to come forward .
PINSKY: Right.
EIGLARSH: . when her words, when her feeling .
PINSKY: Got to break. Got to break guys.
EIGLARSH: ... will be ignored.
PINSKY: Next up, the (inaudible) grad students who rescue Stanford rape survivor, we`ll hear from that hero when we come back. And later Johnny
Manziel in a mountain of trouble again this time for allegedly trashing a rented Hollywood Hills mansion. Here what the angry owner has to say, were
back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARL-FREDRIK ARNDT, SWEDISH PHD STUDENT: Saw a couple with which seemed OK at first. I mean when we looked closer, Peter start noticing, and later
that she wasn`t moving then stopped basically talked about what to do. We started to approach and started to ask what`s going on then after he stood,
we saw she wasn`t moving at all. So talking briefly then he started running away. My friend Peter ran after and caught him on. I attended her
quickly then basically restraining him until the police came.
(END VIDEO CLIP
PINSKY: You just heard from one of the grad students who had spotted a woman being assaulted behind a dumpster. He chased down her attacker who
turned out to be Brock Turner. Back with Anneelise, Mark, Jena and Pat and take a look at this letter to Brock Turner`s father. This is from another
father, a pastor from North Carolina. He writes, "I need you to understand something and I say this as a father who dearly loves my son as much as you
must love yours, Brock is not the victim here. If his life has been deeply altered, it is because he has horribly altered another human being because
he made a reprehensible choice to take advantage of someone for his own pleasure."
The author of that letter, John Pavlovitz joins me now via Skype. John, thank you for joining us. These letters had -these letters had almost as
much effect as the father`s letter and as the victim`s original letter. What moved you to speak to Brock`s father?
JOHN PAVLOVITZ, WROTE OPEN LETTER TO DAD OF STANFORD RAPIST: Well, I think what Brock`s father`s letter did was it really showcased so much of what we
do wrong in our culture regarding sexual assault. It minimized the victim, it began to take culpability away from the assailant and it really creates
an environment where survivors feel that they can`t speak.
And so is a father, as a husband, as a pastor, really is a member of humanity, I just felt like I wanted to speak into that and give a voice to
women who may not have one.
PINSKY: I want to read a little more of what you wrote. Quote, "The idea that your son has never violated another woman next to a dumpster before is
not a credit to his character. We don`t get kudos for only raping one person in our lifetime."
Now that`s just a great point, but your -- you can`t fault the father for coming to his son`s defense. It`s just the manner which he did so.
PAVLOVITZ: Yes, I have a son. I love them dearly, but it is a teachable moment for him. I think what the father missed an opportunity not only to
give wisdom to his son but give wisdom to men who are looking on, and to really center the discussion on the damage that survivors experience.
PINSKY: John, how would you have framed it, how would you have framed it. What would you`ve told your son?
PAVLOVITZ: Well, my son only 11. I talked to him about the inherent value of people and I begin there. So hopefully, that is planted in him, so that
one day when he has opportunity to make bad decisions, he`s going to make one that affirms the dignity of another human being.
PINSKY: The perpetrator here is a 22-year-old sister, what -- if she had been the victim of this crime, do you think the dad would have felt
different.
PAVLOVITZ: I touch on that in a piece and that`s really the heart of this is the lack of self-awareness on behalf of the father and the insensitivity
toward the victim was really startling to me.
PINSKY: Pat, I see you nodding a lot there.
LALAMA: Yes, I love this man. Tell him I love them, I hope he can hear.
PINSKY: He hears you. He hears you.
PAVLOVITZ: Thank you. Thank you.
LALAMA: Here is the thing. I mean we`re talking about -- you`d think that there might be a lesson in all of this for the perpetrator and his dad.
But even now, the perpetrator is saying things like, "You know, I want to devote my life to alcohol awareness and campus promiscuity." Nowhere is
there. Dang, I learned something here. I`m so glad you`ve all help me understand, you know, why I did not get it. And there is nothing. There
is absolutely nothing close to that.
PINSKY: And Pat, it`s not only I didn`t get it or I learned something. Mark, are his attorneys telling them not to sort of fall on his sword? I
don`t understand why this teen (ph) has to go, "Oh my God, I`m reel with guilt. This is the most horrible. I`ve done this horrible thing. I`ve
altered this young woman`s life. We`ve heard her letter and I can`t stop." I mean, there`s so many things to be said.
EIGLARSH: Yeah.
PINSKY: You would hope a victimizer who is a good person as described by his dad would feel.
EIGLARSH: Yes, I agree with you 100 percent. I agree with what Pat just said. There`s two reasons for that. One, he either really doesn`t feel
that, is incapable of feeling that or you`re right, the attorneys may have said, this is going up on appeal, so don`t say anything because it could
affect your chances in the appellate court.
PINSKY: Yes, Anneelise, agreed?
GOETZ: But, you know, even if it goes up to on appeal, you can still have some empathy. You don`t pinpoint the kind of letters that they`re pointing
out. How about just stay quiet. There`s that option too. And, you know, we`re talking, John, I think that your letter was fantastic and we`re
talking about potential, teachable moments. I too have a son.
And what we`re missing here is that the father is failing, obviously, throughout the course of this kid`s life, but especially now to explain
what the law is. I mean it`s my job as a mother to a son, my job and my husband`s job as parents to a son that my son understand what consent is,
that he knows how to share, that he knows how to drive safely and then he knows how to interact with a sexual partner safety.
PINSKY: Hold on, Mark. Pat, Pat go ahead quickly.
LALAMA: Look, we were talking about his ability to say I`m sorry and maybe the lawyers were saying no. But, you know, when my husband does something
that make me mad, he`s a criminal defense attorney, by the way, Mark. He won`t admit it but he`ll say .
EIGLARSH: I`m so sorry, Pat.
LALAMA: He says, "If I did something to hurt you, I`m sorry. If I did," that`s his -- so you think that this kid could go, you know, I`m hearing
from people that this is wrong, I`m trying on it. If I did something that he won`t even go near that. He won`t even address it and I find something
very wrong with that.
EIGLARSH: Pat, I agree with you there.
PINSKY: Would he get a longer sentence if you fell on this or even?
EIGLARSH: The sentence is the sentence. Here`s the problem. It`s the father .
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
EIGLARSH: . who -- no matter what he says won`t affect the sentence. So why wouldn`t he start the letter off with, my goodness, I am so sorry to
you .
LALAMA: Right.
EIGLARSH: .Madame victim for what my son did. I have a daughter and go on and on and on.
PINSKY: Yeah.
EIGLARSH: Then I get him saying, however, let me just tell you what a generally a good guy he is other than his isolated incident .
PINSKY: Right.
EIGLARSH: . that just did abhorrent act.
(CROSSTALK)
LALAMA: How about one line like we understand the heinousness of an assault .
PINSKY: Agree.
LALAMA: . a sexual assault, just say that.
PINSKY: Agree.
LALAMA: Don`t even mention this particular case, just a general reference to the heinousness of sexual assault.
PINSKY: Hang on. So, Jena, is it empathic failure, what do you think?
KRAVITZ: Absolutely.
PINSKY: Yeah.
KRAVITZ: I think John hit the nail on the head here with his letter and bravo, I think you executed exactly what your intent was with that letter.
It was beautifully written. But this is a complete lack of self-awareness, of empathy, of integrity, of human dignity. And it`s no wonder Brock has
the same problem. I mean the apple doesn`t fall far from the tree. His father is not modeling for him .
UNDENTIFIED FEMALE: Exactly.
KRAVITZ: . and probably never has the kind of integrity we should see.
EIGLARSH: Drew, here is one other thing. They just spent a whole trial claiming that she wanted it, OK?
PINSKY: Oh my god.
EIGLARSH: They spent the whole year preparing for that argument. It`s hard then for him to be hearing one word as opposed to two from the jury
and then immediately flip his thought process and say, "You got me. I am so sorry." That`s the problem with this kid.
PINSKY: Oh my God, this whole thing is -- John is the one shining sort of the sort of --he shines through as an example of how we wish everyone would
-- would have, their humanity might have come through in this and we thank you for shining a little light on the -- how a human should behave and how
to -- and by the way John, the other issue that really bothered me about this is that we got to raise our man in a certain way and that`s -- we sort
of have been spinning around that topic.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Yes.
PINSKY: But we must raise our man a certain way and thank you for bringing that -- bringing that out.
PAVLOVITZ: Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate your time.
PINSKY: OK. Next up, I have a tale of twisted twins. Now one is dead, the other is charged with her murder. And later Johnny Manziel is mounting
legal woes, now he is being sued for trashing a Hollywood Hills mansion, we`d head from the owners. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A yoga teacher whose identical twin sister died after their vehicle sped up a 200-foot cliff.
TODD EDDINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Her sister is dead as a result of the events surrounding this charge.
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: That sister hit the gas. There was no slowing down.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Witnesses saw the sisters fighting right before the crash.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The sister was pulling her sister`s hair apparently.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The SUV accelerated, meet a sharp turn into a rock wall and showed no signs of breaking.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Alison Dadow charged with murdering her twin sister after prosecutors say she intentionally drove their SUV off a 200-foot cliff.
She survived, her twin sister did not. Back with Anneelise, Mark, Jena and Pat. Pat, these twins have in fact a pretty rocky past, no?
LALAMA: Yes, well, not to make light of this tragic case but you can see a T.V. produces all over the country trying to make a story about this one.
These two identical twins start off in Florida. They have a couple of yoga centers and they`re very successful. People love these twin sisters. They
do very well. They`re shopping on Worth Avenue. They`ve got matching Porsches. Everything`s fine, until it wasn`t fine.
It seems that they`re overspending. They`re not paying their employees. Things are really rocky. They take off for Utah and try to start again,
but it never gets off the ground and then they have to file bankruptcy. Well that doesn`t work so well so then they`re off to Hawaii where one of
them goes to a homeless mission looking for money. There`s all kinds of problems and before we even get to Hawaii, they had a records, public
intoxication, all kinds of misconduct, hitting a cop just one case after another, lots of troubles before we ever get to this latest .
PINSKY: Second-degree terroristic threatening, what is that?
LALAMA: Yes. They said there was a woman who owned I think it was a bar or a restaurant. They said they were going to have the mafia come after
her, that`s a terrorist threat, that`s a problem.
PINSKY: And according to witnesses, the women -- they had seen these women screaming at each other, the twins .
LALAMA: Yeah.
PINSKY: . and then the passenger who was the twin I guess that died pulled the driver`s hair right before the car accelerated off the cliff.
LALAMA: Right. But you know what, Dr. Drew, just real quickly. One thing I want everyone to know before we get into the discussion because I have
probable cause paperwork here. And, you know, the investigators talk about how it hit a wall first. I was kind of surprised to see that because you
just hear the news reports that went over clip. But it hit a wall first and then went over the cliff, which makes me think a defense attorney might
say she was just gunning for the wall. I don`t know, what you think?
PINSKY: Mark like a suicide or maybe she just careened into the wall, bounced off it over the cliff.
EIGLARSH: Or an extraordinary accident between two women who are fighting. You know, the first misnomer is I always thought yoga made you more
peaceful, I can cross that off my list. And the second thing is in the interest of disclosure, my sisters are identical twins, so that`s the lens
that I look at this case through and I find it so hard to believe that this would be an intentional act .
PINSKY: Right.
EIGLARSH: . done by anyone. So if they`re fighting and alcohol is potentially involved .
PINSKY: Yes.
EIGLARSH: . then maybe this was just a tragic accident.
PINSKY: Jena, I see you nodding.
KRAVITZ: Yes.
PINSKY: So it`s substances, it`s, you know, enmeshment, it`s aggression.
KRAVITZ: Yes.
PINSKY: They`re driving a car and fighting. Of course, there`s going to be an accident.
KRAVITZ: Right, like Mark, my mom has an identical twin also and I am a mother of twins actually .
PINSKY: Oh my God and my kids are triplets.
KRAVITZ: Yes.
PINSKY: This is a multiple panel. I got news for you.
KRAVITZ: But, you know, I was really surprised to hear the accusations here because in knowing twins and in understanding a twin relationship,
it`s a relationship and a bond that stars in utero.
PINSKY: Yes.
KRAVITZ: And often, the identities are more of a "we" identity and an "I". So, oftentimes, you`ll hear twins say, you know, "I may not like her all
the time but I could never live without her."
PINSKY: Right.
KRAVITZ: And so, that`s what`s so surprising about these allegations in my mind.
PINSKY: I guess, Pat, for a suicidal, you say going straight to the wall. The suicide could be an attempt to destroy both of them.
LALAMA: Are you talking to me Dr. Drew?
PINSKY: Yeah.
LALAMA: Yeah, well, I was just thinking that maybe she never intended to kill anybody that because, you know, the witness who happens to, I believe,
a chaperon for the boy scouts said that they were stopped on the highway, just stopped. The sisters sped by but another witness said they were just
stopped and all of a sudden, boom, the driver just takes off, makes a sharp left and heads for that wall.
And, you know, like your guest just said if they`re bonded for life, maybe they were also bonded in death. If she`s going to want her sister to go,
she`s going to go with her.
KRAVITZ: That`s what I was just thinking.
PINSKY: On the phone, I have Nancy Spitzer. She actually took classes at the twin`s yoga`s studio in Florida.
Nancy, had did you experience these two?
NANCY SPITZER, FORMER CLIENT OF DADOW TWINS: Well, thank you for having me on tonight. I had their class a few times. They`re very compassionate,
loving people. And, you know, what you`re talking about tonight, I think is a pure representation of someone struggling. They were both struggling,
I believe, with chemical-dependency issue which is such an epidemic nowadays. And I actually work in the field of substance abuse.
So, we could definitely see it in West Palm, leaving, you know, making impulsive decisions, leaving both studios that were so prosperous. And so
many people had loved them and enjoyed their classes. You know, they went to Utah and then, you know, they were found in a homeless shelter. If you
can just see the behavior and they weren`t really following maybe a .
PINSKY: So, Nancy .
SPITZER: . covered policy.
PINSKY: Right. Maybe they`ve been in and out of recovering. What you`re saying is them showing up at that recovery home disorganized was the
progression of their addiction, we think, right?
SPITZER: Of course, yeah.
PINSKY: Let`s speculate. And so, if they were driving, they were driving, it`s unlikely that even if they were sober, there would have been a
withdrawal so that`s not -- they`ve been in an altered state driving that vehicle.
SPITZER: Of course. And I think their emotions were so high. And like you all were talking about, the twin relationship and, you know, with being
twins, there`s often jealousy and a different level of relationship.
PINSKY: Did you see any of that? Was that ever acted out in front of you?
SPITZER: I never, actually, never experienced them having a class together. They always have classes separate except for workshops but I
definitely think there was tension between the two of them that, you know, we`ve seen throughout the studio. So, that was definitely a part of it,
yeah.
PINSKY: And not to get, you know, sort of more the speculation here but the .
SPITZER: Sure.
PINSKY: . we kept hearing about these extreme spending habits and the cars and maybe there was even bipolar disorder here. Is that possible?
SPITZER: I definitely think so. As a licensed clinician, you know, the ups, the highs and the lows and a lot of people with bipolar spend or have,
you know, sexual behaviors that are surprising to many people but can very high functioning during many times.
So, I think that seeing them, people really, you know, were drawn to them for their behavior and their charismatic, you know, friendship and kindness
throughout West Palm and Palm Beach County and then to see them go down rapidly, quickly was quite shocking, which is often common with people who
struggle with mental health disorders.
KRAVITZ: And add in the alcohol and their ability to be high functioning individuals just goes down from there.
PINSKY: They`ve gone rebel. Mark?
KRAVITZ: Yes.
EIGLARSH: What`s missing for me from a criminal perspective is I need a note, maybe a suicide note which would evidence her intent to intentionally
go off that cliff. I need some type of statement after her arrest indicating that she wanted to take her sister out or she wanted to end her
life to show that she intended to go off the cliff.
PINSKY: I -- Mark .
EIGLARSH: Accident death, she`s not guilty.
PINSKY: I`ve got -- well, what I`m going to get into next is that the twin says she`s not guilty, but she tried to flee the state twice. Pat, you`re
going to going to give us details on that.
LALAMA: Yeah.
PINSKY: And later, allegations of an alcohol drug-fueled party have Johnny Manziel facing a hefty lawsuit. I have details and the price tag, please
stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: A woman charged with killing her identical twin sister by intentionally driving their SUV off a 200 foot cliff. I`m back without
AnneElise, Mark, Jena and Pat.
And the sister who died had a boyfriend. Here is what he told the Maui news, "She never trusted her sister but she loved her sister." He also
said that on the day of the crash, the sisters had been drinking and fighting and even punching each others. Pat, you have some details on
this.
LALAMA: Yeah, I just want to say, according to this document that I have there, it says, hard acceleration, hard left steering input and no attempt
at any breaking. Now, you add to that the fact that when she went to the hospital, she kind of took off from the hospital. And then according to
neighbors, they noticed that she was packing and then there were tickets to the West Coast. She told -- her lawyer said, well, she was on her way back
to New York where the grandmother lived where she was going to go to her sister`s funeral. So, that`s the story.
PINSKY: AnneElise, before I hand that to Mark, you want to make something with that?
GOETZ: I do. You know, I think what`s going on here is that we -- in this country, we have a fascination with attractive female ..
LALAMA: Yes.
GOETZ: . killers. And we also have a fascination with twins. And I think that this snowballing, it`s happening in Hawaii, I`ve lived in Hawaii, the
news is usually surf reports and this is a big, big story there. And I think that it is snowballed on itself and the media is frankly fueling the
flames. And I really don`t see anything here.
Yes, one of her -- her best friend, her sister, her twin dies. The only person that she still has left is her grandmother. So, to fly to New York
to be with her grandmother, why is that shocking to anyone? I don`t find that shocking at all. I think that sounds like human nature.
LALAMA: The question is why -- I mean, somebody was saying second degree murder seems like an overcharged. I love to know what Mark thinks on that.
PINSKY: Mark, here we go.
EIGLARSH: Well, I`m still not convinced it`s murder, you know. I can`t get pass the fact that same egg, same sperm and she wanted her dead. I
just -- I can`t get pass that.
But, you know, the fleeing part doesn`t trouble me that much. She had threatened someone in a bar, she was probably impaired. At a minimum,
they`re going to get her for DUI manslaughter potentially. So, you flee, it doesn`t necessarily mean second-degree murder.
LALAMA: Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Go ahead Pat. Yeah.
LALAMA: One other thing really quickly. Back in Utah, they`re at some bar, got stinking drunk and they ended up on a ditch, same two sisters.
And one of the witnesses or might have been -- actually a police officer who said that Alison, one of them -- no, it was Ann who was pushing
Alison`s head down in Utah, almost like the same as pulling the hair in Hawaii. That, it was kind of an eerie, you know. It`s just an eerie
similarity to the .
PINSKY: Bottom line, this is, you know, people end up in horrible circumstances .
LALAMA: Yeah.
PINSKY: . with the disease of addiction and alcoholism. Horrible things happen, it spirals, it progresses until either somebody dies, somebody ends
up on a hospital, somebody ends up at institution or prison, Mark?
EIGLARSH: I thought you`re going to say, bottom line yoga is a killer.
PINSKY: Next up, Johnny Manziel will be downward spiral. Well, this is another story much like it. Will it ever end? It will -- we just heard a
story where the stuff goes.
Now, he faces an alleged lawsuit for trashing a Hollywood mansion. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNNY MANZIEL, AMERICAN FOOTBALL QUARTERBACK: I mean, it`s a dream come true to be where I am now getting a chance to start my first NFL game.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are partying with Johnny Manziel.
GOETZ: We`re saying that we`re concerned about Johnny. I`m concerned about anyone that happens to be around Johnny.
COY WIRE, FORMER NFL PLAYER/CNN SPORTS ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Champagne bottle, rolling with entourages, girls. He`s going to clubs even after
being told to straighten up.
GOETZ: Battery or assault charges for allegedly hitting his ex-girlfriend. He is getting fights in Vegas clubs. He was given everything on like a
silver platter and this is what he does?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody has to find their own bottom. Either you accept it and get the help or you die.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINKSY: More legal trouble for Johnny Football. The former NFL quarterback is being sued for allegedly trashing this Hollywood Hills
mansion he rented in April costing $32,000 in damages. I`m back with AnneElise, Mark, Jena.
The suit claims "Manziel and his party guests were consuming drugs and alcohol on the property and that they caused a disturbance to the
neighborhood which resulted in the LAPD being summoned to the property." Anneelise, you`ve been so outspoken about this guy`s behavior. I`m going
to hand it to you.
GOETZ: Everyone knows how I feel about this. And when I`m looking at this case, I would tell the owner, time is money. This guy is in a downward
spiral and they`ll be lucky if he has any cash left by the time they file this lawsuit.
I would file it, I get the judgment, I would collect because where is the money going to go. And it`s just one more example of this guy not having
any respect for people`s property or people individually. You know, we`ve got the alleged assault and now, he`s trashing someone`s home.
PINSKY: Jena, this is another way to sort of bad behavior which is having too much handed to you and then you add the substances in.
KRAVITZ: Yeah, AnneElise, I would add that who knows if he`ll even be alive .
PINKSY: Yeah, I know .
KRAVITZ: . to handle any trials here. Because at the rate that he is going, his life is -- his days are numbered. But, yes, it`s a history of
this entitled behavior. It`s what makes him so unlikable to the public which is why people get so riled up about this.
I agree with you, AnneElise, but it`s a string of just story after story after story that lacks character and that must come from, you know, I`m
going to go on a limb here and say from early on in his childhood.
PINSKY: Yeah. And where he was given, you know, put up on a pedestal and given everything and told he was great.
KRAVITZ: Yes.
PINSKY: One of his former teammates, Karlos Dansby, appeared on Jim Rome Show yesterday, talked about the pressure that he was under in Cleveland.
He said, "I probably would have committed suicide. I could not handle none of it. Nobody in that building could handle any of that pressure that man
was under."
So, Mark, a perfect solution, drink.
EIGLARSH: Well, let me end this story for everybody. There are three ways it ends. One .
PINSKY: Prison?
EIGLARSH: Death. Prison, you got number two. Or recovery.
PINSKY: Or institutions.
EIGLARSH: Yeah, we`ll go with that.
PINSKY: Yeah.
EIGLARSH: But, you know, somebody around him needs to stop enabling him .
PINSKY: Yeah.
EIGLARSH: . because he`s on his way to death.
PINSKY: His dad has been desperate and desperate trying to get the guys off. I mean .
KRAVITZ: But Dr. Drew, this is the ultimate narcissist here in the making, the kid who was told he was so special. You know, he`s not going into
institutions or rehab, he doesn`t -- this is not a problem .
PINSKY: He`ll take it to the map. But I have seen narcissists get humility in recovery. I have seen it. It`s the one place they find it.
DVR this -- thank you panel. DVR this then you can watch anytime. We do thank you for watching the show. Please tell a friend about us. We`ll see
you next time. Nancy Grace, up next.
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END
