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Dr. Drew
More Money, More Problems?; Prince Estate Must Pay Tax Bill Or Else; Rapist Portrayed Self As Inexperienced Drinker; 39 Character Statements Submitted To Judge; College & Rape: Is Your Daughter At Risk?; Stanford Students Outraged At Rapist`s Sentence, Colleges With Highest Rates of Sexual Assaults; Judge Orders Release of Twin Accused of Killing Sister; Attorney: Twin "Elated" Over Dropped Murder Charge; Twin`s Car Plunged Over Hawaii Cliff; Twins Had Prior Run-ins With Law. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired June 09, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:00] DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, Stanford rape outrage intensifying. Bong hits, acid trips, lots of alcohol. Prosecutors say
convicted rapist Brock Turner was doing it all and that he lied to a judge about his lifestyle. We have the explosive details.
But first, a scramble for Prince`s millions. A parade of people, including a violent criminal, claimed to be related to the singer. Without a will,
it`s all up to the judge. But is there a will?
Joining me tonight on set, I`ve got Anahita Sedaghatfar, criminal defense attorney, Leo Terrell, criminal defense attorney, and on the phone Jasmine
Simpkins, reporter for HipHollywood.com.
Jasmine, my understanding is there was a really critical yesterday. Tell me about that.
JASMINE SIMPKINS, SR. PRODUCER, REPORTER, HIPHOLLYWOOD.COM (via telephone): Yes, yesterday -- well, first of all, Drew, there is no will that we know
of. I know that people are still speculating about this vault and a will inside of this vault, but we don`t know that to be true. I just want to
clear that up.
PINSKY: Has the vault been opened? Has Geraldo been consulted?
SIMPKINS: Exactly. None of that has happened yet.
PINSKY: OK.
SIMPKINS: So no will that we know of. But what we do know is that the judge, he has a whole lot of power, and he`s made a decision that really is
going to determine the fate of the heirs and the money. He said that the estate -- that they requested -- he`s requested, sorry, someone to be an
expert and to be able to go over the assets and turn those assets into cash, which is very, very important. Because that means that they can now
use Paisley Park as a tourist attraction or an amusement park.
And this is also really, really big, this news, because Carlin Q. Williams, who -- we know him as the man who`s alleging to be prince`s son. He`s a
convicted felon. He asked that the judge determine the heirs first before starting to work out the assets, and the judge said absolutely not.
PINSKY: Interesting. Now that Carlin Williams, of course, Jasmine just mentioned, is a violent convicted criminal. Many charges. Weapons, domestic
violence, car theft, cocaine trafficking. He is due to get out in less than four years.
And Leo, I just want to make sure I understand this. He is entitled to the money if it turns out that he is the son, right, the biological heir. He`s
entitled to the money no matter what.
LEO TERRELL, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely, Dr. Drew. And the key here, I think it`s a smart move for the judge to allow these industry
experts -- they need experts to value the potential of Prince`s estate, and the determination of the heirs could be done much later. But right now,
they need to raise cash. They need to know the value. And attorneys rely on experts and the court to do so in order to make sure they could get the
maximum full potential of the estate.
PINSKY: And Jasmine, how much money are we talking about here?
SIMPKINS: Anywhere between $100 million and $300 million. There`s a lot of money. His intellectual property, the estate, all of that comes a part of
that total.
PINSKY: And does that include future earnings? Because I keep hearing that there`s going to be so much more money coming in, much the way it did for
Michael Jackson.
SIMPKINS: Definitely. Definitely. I mean, as we all know, artists make more money dead than they do alive, so this total could definitely grow. His
fans are thirsty for his music.
PINSKY: Now, one of the prince heir`s so-called that`s easy to identify -- I can do it right now -- that is the government. The government`s going to
get a lot of this money.
Joining me, Andrew Stoltmann, attorney for two ladies who claim to be Prince`s heirs. Andrew, you specialize in this area. The estate is valued,
as we heard, to be between $100 and $300 million, and then hundreds of millions more coming in.
What is the government likely to take? And I keep hearing that it could be a significant percentage.
ANDREW STOLTMANN, POSSIBLE PRINCE HEIRS` ATTORNEY (via telephone): Yes, Dr. Drew, the estate taxes both at the federal and state level are
extraordinary. At least in the United States, on amounts over $5 million, the tax is 40 percent for every dollar over $5 million. And then you take
in the Minneapolis or Minnesota tax, and it`s 16 percent on amounts over $10 million.
Now, you can offset some of the federal taxes with estate taxes and vice versa, but the point is, I think you summed it up best when you said the
government will likely be the biggest heir with respect to what they`re getting. And, you know, the money is due, I think, in January, so there`s
not a long period of time. So the U.S. government and Minnesota will get its share.
PINSKY: And does he owe back taxes? Is there a tax liability above and beyond the inheritance issues?
STOLTMANN: Well, there isn`t anything that I`m aware, but as you know, with the IRS, they can go back three to five years and examine back taxes. So I
don`t know if that`s going on, but certainly anything the IRS does really doesn`t surprise any of us.
PINSKY: Now, there`s a warning, I guess, to anyone who`s been downloading Prince`s music for free. One of the guys representing the trust said quote,
"The music world needs to know that this special administrator controls Prince`s intellectual rights."
Jasmine, tell me about this. So this is where that extra money`s going to be coming from?
SIMPKINS: Exactly, this is -- this is what I was talking about earlier where people are going online. They`re trying to find ways to get their
hands on Prince`s music.
I think it`s really ironic, though, that this guy is making this declaration, because as we all know, Prince loved to give away his music to
his fans. At concerts he gave away copies of his albums. He would give away free music on SoundCloud an online. So it`s very, very ironic that they`re
now saying, we`re going to really police people downloading music for free.
PINSKY: And then Anahita, I`m hearing -- Jasmine mentioned they want to turn this into a tourist attraction, Paisley Park. I mean, that -- I mean,
Prince was a guy who liked to give away his music. He liked to give away and invite people to his living environment. Making it an amusement park
seems a little bizarre.
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think it`s smart. I mean, like you said, you`re talking about an estate that`s worth about $100 to
$300 million, Dr. Drew. There`s going to be a huge tax liability. And there are business decisions that need to be made. There are assets that need to
be protected. There are assets that can and should be monetized.
PINSKY: So Anahita, you`re cold hearted. You`re not going to -- you`re not going to -- you`re going to desecrate the honor, the memory of Prince --
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, that`s why you have --
PINSKY: -- because there`s assets that need to be monetized.
(CROSSTALK)
SEDAGHATFAR -- I`m definitely not doing that, but I think the message here is that, you know, you should have a will. There is no will. So the fact is
business has to go on as usual, Dr. Drew, until the court can establish who these heirs are. They need special experts to come in. You`re talking about
a lot of money here.
PINSKY: All right, next up, pot, LSD, alcohol. The Stanford rapist apparently had quite a history, according to bombshell evidence discovered
by the prosecution. That is next.
And later, she was the alleged evil killer twin. Now she`s free. Find out why a judge let her go. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REPORTER: The defendant in this case, Brock Turner, is not acknowledging that he assaulted the victim. Instead, he seems to be blaming his actions
on alcohol and the party culture of college. In that letter he writes, quote, "One decision has the potential to change your entire life. I know I
can impact and change people`s attitudes towards the culture surrounded by binge drinking and sexual promiscuity that protrudes what people think is
at the core of being a college student."
ANCHOR: You said being drunk, I couldn`t make the best decisions and neither could she. Having too much to drink was an amateur mistake that I
admit to, but it is not criminal. We were both drunk. The difference is that I did not take off your pants and underwear, touch you inappropriately
and run away. That`s the difference.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: New documents in the Stanford rape case reveal Brock Turner lied to the judge about his history with drugs and alcohol. In a letter to Judge
Persky, Brock Turner paints himself as a naive small town dude. He writes, quote, "I was an inexperienced drinker and party-goer, so I just accepted
these things that they showed me as normal. Living more than 2,000 miles from home, I looked to guys on my swim team as family and tried to
replicate their values and how they approached college life."
Back with Anahita and Leo. Joining us, Lisa Palmer, psychotherapist. Pat Lalama, manager editor, "Crime Watch Daily," from their newsroom.
Pat, what has come out now that leads us to believe he was not being truthful?
PAT LALAMA, MANAGING EDITOR, CRIME WATCH DAILY: It`s unbelievable. Now, keep in mind before I tell you, before I read from my list here, keep in
mind the judge was privy to all of this, because it was in the sentencing memo. Here is what the judge heard from prosecutors.
On his cell phone photos and images smoking a pipe, video smoking a bong, drinking out of a bottle of liquor, text messages referring to wanting to
do some dabs, which is really, really intense marijuana, smoking, buying and sharing weed, wants a hookup for acid. He was down for an acid trip. He
wanted to do LSD and MDMA combined, which shows that in his high school and college years, he was already somewhat of a veteran, not the innocent kid
he liked to portray himself being.
PINSKY: Now, earlier this week, I devoted an entire show to discussion of rape on college campus. Some of the guests, I guess, disagreed with the --
when I tried to make an association between rape culture -- No, forget that I made association. I wanted to discuss alcohol abuse and the rape culture,
but -- well, you watch.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA BLOOM, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: This should be about rape, and when we talk about the alcohol, it`s as if we`re saying she has a part in it --
PINSKY: We`re not.
BLOOM: Yes, we are.
PINSKY: No, we`re not.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Lisa --
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: You know me. That`s not what I`m saying. You know that`s not what I`m saying.
(CROSSTALK)
I`m not saying that`s what you`re saying but --
(CROSSTALK)
AMY ZIERING, HOLLYWOOD PRODUCER: -- and then talking about alcohol. It`s irrelevant.
PINSKY: Alcohol`s a major problem.
SPIRIT, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Can I get in here?
PINSKY: No, you can`t, Spirit. Hold on a second, please.
We have a problem on college campuses. I`ve been walking around college campus for 10 years talking about the alcohol problem. Please don`t tell me
there`s not an alcohol problem on campuses. That`s a second problem in addition to the rape problem. They both impact to health and well-being of
college students. Why can`t I as a physician have an opinion about two important health issues?
BLOOM: Well, of course, you can, but --
PINSKY: Thank you. That`s all I`m saying.
BLOOM: -- it`s so fantastic to devote an entire show to rape, and there`s so much to talk about --
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: That`s what I`m doing. I`m devoting the whole show to rape, but by the way, I would remind you, there`s an alcohol problem out there, too.
That`s all I`m saying.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: That was all I was saying, but somehow by just bringing up alcohol, I was somehow offending the awareness, the movement to try to bring
awareness about the rape culture on college campuses.
Now, there is a problem which this kid uses alcohol as a defense. That`s a legal system problem. I can`t address that. I`m not a lawyer. Leo, you can
address that. Help me with this.
TERRELL: I`m not going to help you.
PINSKY: No.
TERRELL: Not based on what I saw. Based on what I saw, the idea of you raising the issue of alcohol is a defense in and of itself.
PINSKY: I`m not talking about (inaudible), though. I`m talking -- I`m just talking as a physician. Am I aloud to -- wait -- no. And I allowed to be a
doctor? Can I practice medicine?
TERRELL: Not when you`re talking about a criminal case. We`re talking about a crime.
PINSKY: Am I in a courtroom or on my talk show where a physician hosts?
TERRELL: It`s your talk show --
PINSKY: OK.
TERRELL: -- but it`s wrong for you to bring it up during the case of rape.
PINSKY: Oh, OK, so wait.
TERRELL: Why are you bringing it up?
PINSKY: Wrong in what sense?
TERRELL: Why are you bringing it up?
PINSKY: Because this kid brought it up as a defense, and I was taking issue with him doing that. But oh, by the way, there is an alcohol problem on
campus.
TERRELL: He brought it up as an excuse to justify his rape. And it`s the wrong time and place for him to bring it up --
PINSKY: Agreed.
TERRELL: -- and the wrong time and place for you to bring it up.
PINSKY: Anahita, tell me. Why?
SEDAGHATFAR: He`s using that as an excuse. That`s not acceptable. It`s not an excuse morally. It`s not an excuse legally. But Dr. Drew, you`re just
pointing out the fact that yes, we have a rape culture on college campuses, and we also have an issue with drugs and alcohol. I don`t think there`s
anything wrong.
PINSKY: Thank you.
SEDAGHATFAR: One doesn`t take away from the other.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Thank you.
SEDAGHATFAR: Just by saying that alcohol is a problem on college campuses does not negate the fact that there is a rape culture.
TERRELL: Anahita, the moment -- the moment you bring it up during a rape, you now somehow justify some basis for the rape to exist. It`s wrong.
SEDAGHATFAR: It would be disingenuous not to bring it up, because --
TERRELL: It was the wrong time and place.
SEDAGHATFAR: -- alcohol was involved. It would be disingenuous not to bring it up.
PINSKY: Hold on.
SEDAGHATFAR: It doesn`t detract from the fact --
PINSKY: It doesn`t.
SEDAGHATFAR: -- that rape is rape. It just acknowledges that these --
PINSKY: Yes.
SEDAGHATFAR: -- two problems exists.
PINSKY: I would not bring it up in a courtroom. I`d bring it up in the --
SEDAGHATFAR: Right.
PINSKY: -- administrator`s office at the college, which is you guys have health issues here on campus. Alcohol is one of them. Rape is another.
Lisa, what is going on that makes it impossible for people to like lose their minds that they can`t talk about -- literally, if I were talking
about DUI and was told do not mention alcohol, alcohol is not something related to DUI at all, at all, at all, it`s the same argument.
PALMER: Yes. I mean, listen, we have to look at what all of the facts are in this. And if there`s alcohol involved, we have to talk about it. If
there`s rape involved, we have to talk about it.
We can`t ignore what the facts actually are. We have to look at it. And the fact is that when people drink, a lot of times they do stupid things and
they do bad things. And rape is a bad thing, so that`s why I`m on the show to talk about it.
PINSKY: Leo, in a courtroom, dude, when you`re -- when you get a DUI case, no one`s allowed to bring up the word alcohol? Can`t bring that up?
TERRELL: You know what? Talk to the Mothers Against Drunk Driving. It doesn`t matter. It`s irrelevant. You`re going to lose your license. You`re
going to be suspended. You`re going to have to take a drug rehab class. It doesn`t matter. For you to bring it up, Dr. Drew, it`s wrong.
PINSKY: Hold on, Leo. Wait. Pat`s shaking her glasses again. When Pat brings her glasses up, I respond immediately. Go ahead, Pat. Go.
LALAMA: Thank you very much. It`s Pavlovian. I can see that, Dr. Drew.
Here`s the thing. I mean, I`m not a mental health expert, but I`m a reporter who`s been around a long time, and I know that alcohol does, in
fact, fuel domestic violence. It fuels a lot of things.
PINSKY: Don`t mention it. Stop it. We`re talking about domestic violence. We can`t talk about alcohol.
LALAMA: I know. It`s a terrible thing.
PINSKY: There`s no discussing it. You can`t talking about alcohol, because we`re talking about domestic violence.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Listen, domestic violence -- and by the way, everyone who drinks doesn`t become domestically violent.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Exactly.
PINSKY: I understand that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Exactly.
PINSKY: But these are things affect each other. We`ve got to address the totality of the health of our students, of our people, our married couples.
I mean, it`s just so bizarre to me. Leo, shame on you. Where`s my shame bell? Shame on you.
(CROSSTALK)
TERRELL: Me? Me?
PINSKY: Yes, you.
TERRELL: For you to bring it up about a criminal case, it doesn`t matter at all. You`re bringing it up. I can`t believe it, Dr. Drew. This is not like
you. This is not like you.
PINSKY: OK. Now I`ve been shamed.
Next up, critics outraged by Brock Turner`s sentence are now targeting his supporters. Find out the price they`re paying. That`s next.
And later, jail officials fear Turner could become the victim. Find out what they`re doing to keep the rapist safe. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was a unanimous jury. There are witnesses. And we are so proud as a campus that we are able to like actually witness the
event and stop it. And yet there wasn`t really enough justice. And we think he got an easier sentence, because he`s a white male of a privileged
background.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s a human being who was violated in the most disgusting possible way. He`s shown no remorse, has admitted to no crime
and is now paying a considerably shorter sentence that he should be.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Thirty-nine people who knew Brock Turner wrote letters to the judge supporting his character as they knew it, asking for leniency. Now those
friends, some of them, are recanting their words and apologizing.
Back with Anahita, Leo, Lisa and Pat. I want to show you guys a letter from Brock`s -- from a childhood friend of Brock`s, Leslie. She says, quote, "I
am so sick of hearing that these young men are monsters when really you are throwing barely 20-somethings into these camp-like university environments
supporting partying, and then your mind is blown when things get out of hand."
The backlash against Leslie was so severe, she plays in a band, the band was booted from the lineup at several clubs. They said they -- those clubs
then said things such as they would not support a quote, "rape apologist."
Today, Leslie then recanted, saying, quote, "I had no right to make any assumptions about the situation. Most importantly, I did not acknowledgment
strongly enough the severity of Brock`s crime and the suffering and pain that his victim endured, and for that lack of acknowledgement, I am deeply
sorry. "
So Anahita, is that a sufficient -- did she fall on her sword sufficiently, or are there going to be more consequences for her do you think?
SEDAGHATFAR: I think so. I think she apologized for what she said. Clearly she probably needs more education about rape, about sexual assault, just
like this boy does, just like his father does.
And Dr. Drew, I haven`t weighed in on this case, but I can tell you that this is one of the biggest jokes of a sentence I`ve ever seen in my entire
career. It`s up there with the affluenza kid.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Well, I`ve got to tell you. I think you`re right. Again, to me, it makes me so uncomfortable. There are kids -- I`ve seen -- I`ve just in the
last couple of days heard reports of other cases, kids aren`t well off, kids aren`t white getting huge sentences, and this guy has the money to
protect himself. Right? Isn`t that what this is about?
SEDAGHATFAR; Right. That`s what it is, and that`s why so many people believe we essentially have two criminal justice systems. We have one for
the haves and one for the have nots, and that is not how our criminal justice system is supposed to work.
And then when you see that the judge -- the judge gave this guy a slap on the wrist, six months in jail. He basically ruined this woman`s life. She`s
never, ever going to be the same again. And he, he himself still refuses to take responsibility for what he did.
This is just -- this is a joke. This is a travesty of justice.
PINSKY: And Pat -- and Pat, he`ll probably only serve three months when we`re all done here. Right?
LALAMA: Absolutely. And, you know, that`s the way it is in California because of overcrowding. He`ll get out somewhere about the 2nd of
September, I believe. And he`s also in protective custody, which he probably is entitled to, given the kind of case that it is.
PINSKY: Now, Lisa, one of the things that bothers me about this sort of coming out in the course of this -- I mean, I`m not saying that that Leslie
should not have been schooled. She should have been. But we`re seeing a lot of social media sort of mob mentality.
Let me -- let me raise a question that`s intended to be argumentative. Is this a McCarthy-style attack on free speech?
PALMER: I don`t know. But I think that, you know, what we really need to be talking about is the psychological condition of this boy. And, you know,
there`s a lot of talk about whether or not he should be in prison for three months, if that`s OK, or 14 months. I don`t know. You know, the thing --
that`s for the lawyers.
But in reality I think that he really needs psychological help. I don`t like to label people, but I think that he`s more likely a sociopath. He
lacks empathy. He lacks judgment. He lacks moral character.
PINSKY: Well, but Lisa, as you and I both know -- you and I both know that the sociopaths end up oftentimes in Leo`s court. They end up in the system.
They aren`t somebody you can really change, are they? Leo?
(CROSSTALK)
TERRELL: Yes, two things. Leslie gave what you call an economic apology. She was being hurt in the wallet, so that`s why she apologized. But, you
know, we spend 20 minutes on this boy, and the psychologist is talking about this guy needs help.
What about the victim? How about the torment and the life-altering changes? We haven`t spent one minute on the victim. Where is she? Where is she in
this story? I don`t understand it.
PINSKY: Wait. Pat, why are you surprised?
LALAMA: Well, because I`m surprised no one`s questioning what about the judge who saw all of the substance use by this young man and didn`t factor
it in. Leo, where was the judge? Why didn`t he say wait a minute, young man, you lied to --
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Leo, before you answer. Leo, it gets worse. The kid`s mom breaks down in court. The kid`s upset, so they send him home with the mom and the
attorney for, I think, a couple of days before he has to show up for jail. I`ve never heard of such a thing.
TERRELL: All right, let me say here -- well, first of all, the judge should be recalled. But let me put on my fake psychology hat. When the father says
the guy had only 20 minutes of action, the father of this kid, that guy tells you why this kid acted this way. He`s lived in an environment, as
Anahita said, an affluenza environment that allowed him to act like this.
SEDAGHATFAR: Oh, absolutely. And Dr. Drew, it blew me away when I found out that the judge was actually privy to that evidence before sentencing. He
knew this man had lied. He told the court, oh, I had no experience with alcohol, no experience with drugs. I`m from a small town.
He lied to the court. The judge knew that before the sentencing, and instead of increasing his sentence, instead of looking at that as an
aggravating factor, he gave him a six-month sentence even though he lied.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- and to the court.
PINSKY: Pat?
LALAMA: And one other thing he lied about, he told the probation officer something completely different. He told the probation officer that they
were kissing and dancing at the party, but in the police report, he said he ran into her outside. Two completely -- oh, and saying he was kissing and
dancing, that she agreed to go home with him. That`s what he told the probation officer.
(CROSSTALK)
LALALMA: He told the cops something entirely different.
TERRELL: Dr. Drew, I may have to go up -- I may have to go up north and run against this judge for his seat.
PINSKY: Oh, I`ll vote for you. I`m up for it. I`m up for this.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: I`ll be your campaign manager.
TERRELL: OK, I need you.
PINSKY: Let me just say there`s a potential here to learn something as a parent, though, because people go, oh, the dad`s terrible, the kid`s
terrible. There is a -- there is a subtler issue in here that I think you ought to watch out for.
I bet what happened was the parents were saying, I never have talked to my kid. He`s a perfect kid. He swims 18 hours a day. He`s got a girlfriend.
Why would I worry about him? He`s straight edge. He`s not doing any substances. Right? Right, sonny, you`re --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello, hello.
PINSKY: Lisa, go ahead. Finish that off.
PALMER: There`s a lot of commotion going on. But the father is enabling his behavior.
PINSKY: Of course. Of course.
PALMER: OK? We can`t overlook that. And, you know, that`s why this kid probably needs more stricter regimens, to be in prison, to have the
structure. Some people actually can change in prison, but it takes a long time.
I`ve known ex-cons who`ve gone to prison for 14 years and have changed and have come out and have done really great things. But for a lot of people --
PINSKY: I don`t know if --
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: I`ve got to go to break. Should the judge be removed? That`s what we`re asking here. His controversial sentence.
Later, beautiful blond twins with a checkered past. One is dead. The other just cleared of her murder. I`ve got the details. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIRLANE MCCRAY, MAYOR DE BLASIO`S WIFE: We are here today to read the statement of the woman who was raped by Brock Turner.
CYNTHIA NIXON, ACTRESS: In it I read and learned for the first time about how I was found unconscious with my hair dishevelled, long necklace wrapped
around my neck, bra pulled out of my dress.
KAREN OLIVIO, ACTRESS: I was the wounded antelope of the herd, completely alone and vulnerable, physically unable to fend for myself, and he chose
me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On top of all of this, he claimed that I orgasmed after one minute of digital penetration. The nurse said there had been
abrasions, lacerations and dirt inside my genitalia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:34:50] PINKSY: Celebrity students and government officials all took part in a reading of the rape victim`s letter. It was hosted by the New
York Mayor`s Office. Back with Anahita, Leo and Pat. Pat, again, that judge we were talking about in the last segment, Leo is going to run
against him, I guess. He`s moving up north. It`s like the -
TERRELL: (INAUDIBLE)
PINKSY: Yeah. What do we know about him?
[19:35:08] LALAMA: Well, I`ve got some interesting things to tell you. First of all, he`s a Stanford graduate, and he coached men`s lacrosse, but
here`s what`s really ironic, he was a sex crimes prosecutor, and in fact, touts himself - maybe tout seems harsh. He actually was and is a battered
women`s advocate. He`s been 13 years on the bench, and there`s never been any controversy. You`d think of all judges, this is a kind of guy who
would really understand the essence of sexual assault, campus or not.
PINKSY: Well, I find that kind of confusing. And Leo, let me throw it back on you. Is it possible we`re getting this guy wrong? Did something
happen in the courtroom that we weren`t there? And let me further add another polemic which is, should we be judging from social media, should be
telling judges how -
LALAMA: OK. That`s not (INAUDIBLE)
PINSKY: Should I - yes, should I be telling you how to do your job as an attorney, or bullying you to do so through social media?
[19:36:03] TERRELL: P.S. I`m glad Pat came up with the information about him being a Stanford graduate, tells you one thing the alumni system is
very powerful. That guy should have recused himself. And yes, the public has a right, we vote on judges. Judges are elected after they`re appointed
by the governor.
And I`m telling you right now, that connection of the Stanford graduate with this judge and that student tells you right there, they were trying to
deep-six this. And if it wasn`t for social media, we wouldn`t be talking about this horrific case right now. That powerful message by the mayor and
those women speaking, just made me emotionally upset about this case. It`s outrageous.
PINKSY: It is. Yeah. It is - it is upsetting, but again, we - I want to look at this from all angles. Anahita, where does it stop? What if
somebody is a - the same color, the same gender, the same whatever, judges have to recuse themselves then?
[19:36:48] SEDAGHATFAR: I have to say you know I`m absolutely disgusted with this sentence, Dr. Drew, but at the same time, I don`t agree with Leo.
I`m sorry, but the judge shouldn`t recuse himself simply because he went to the same university as the criminal defendant in his court.
LALAMA: Yeah, I agree.
SEDAGHATFAR: I mean, you can`t - I think that`s going to be the wonderful slippery slope wheel we`ve talked about, but - and I don`t like to second-
guess judges, I really don`t. But, I mean, this sentence is so far-out from leftfield. There is absolutely, Dr. Drew, no way to justify a six-
month sentence for a crime like this. He was convicted of rape, of sexual assault by 12 jurors.
PINSKY: Yeah. So, Pat, what happened? How did it get so wrong?
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, it`s - you know, this is the million-dollar question, and he can`t really talk about it because the case is on appeal. But it
seems to me that the people who are arguing against him, in fact one of the women, I mentioned this the other day who`s behind one of the many recall
petitions, there`s like five of them, and then one of them there`s 900,000 supporters on just one of them alone, but a lot of people are saying he
misapplied the law, that he factored in things that he shouldn`t have factored, like this guy`s promising career as a swimmer, and the alcohol
use. So, you know, maybe he did get it wrong this time, but who knows why?
TERRELL: Because he`s a Stanford grad.
PINSKY: All right. Now - well, on the phone, I`ve got another judge, Judge Larry Seidlin. He was the judge for the Anna Nicole Smith trial.
Judge, do you agree with what we`re saying out here in California? Should this guy - did this guy really get it wrong, and some people are calling
for his removal?
[19:38:13] JUDGE LARRY SEIDLIN, ANNA NICOLE SMITH TRIAL JUDGE: Well, you have to balance all the facts. This was a jury trial, and the judge sat
through -
SEDAGHATFAR: You got to but I can tell him to stop.
SEIDLIN: -- the judge sat through the trial and heard the testimony of all of these witnesses. Normally, when it`s a jury trial and the defendant is
found guilty, the judge normally hammers the defendant because the defendant is saying he`s not guilty, the jury comes back with a - with a
guilty verdict, and he`s - the defendant has taken up all of the time and resources of the court. And the way you move your docket is you say,
you`re going to go to jury trial, you`re going to - you`re going to pretty much get the maximum amount defined, which in this case would have been 14
years.
So, obviously the judge heard something during this trial that mitigated, in his mind, to give leniency to this defendant. Now, we don`t know what
it was. He didn`t state the reasons, but it`s highly unusual for a judge to impose such a light sentence for the crime of sexual battery, for the
crime of rape. Normally, you would throw the book at the defendant. Let the boy being hit.
PINSKY: Larry, let me interrupt you. May I interrupt you? And can I - can I - can I float to Leo -
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can I say something?
PINSKY: Who is that? Who was that? Who - look, I float Leo.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s me. Hello.
PINKSY: Can I float Leo`s theory that the fact is that this is a Stanford graduate and that biased him?
SEIDLIN: Well, you know, I was a Florida judge for 27 years but, of course, you can tell by my accent, I`m from the Bronx, New York. So, when
a New York lawyer or a New York native came in front of me and had a Florida license, the other side was always a little bit nervous that I
might be a little bit kinder to the - to the New York guy, and I made sure never to be. I always made sure it with us an even playing field. And I
think we -
PINSKY: There you go.
SEIDLIN: I think we have to be careful with the saying we don`t want a Muslim or a Mexican sitting who has that heritage. I think it`s insane.
PINSKY: Thank you. Thank you, judge.
SEIDLIN: We`re a melted - we`re a melting pot.
PINSKY: I`m with you, judge. I think that the whole - the sole idea that to be -- you have to recuse yourself if you don`t - that doesn`t make sense
to me, but - shame on you, Leo, once again. But we`ll - it`s all right, my friend. Well, we -
TERRELL: All right.
PINSKY: I`m going to get to you next, which is which call - thank you, judge - by the way, Judge Larry Seidlin.
SEIDLIN: My pleasure.
PINSKY: Which colleges have the highest rates of sexual assault? I`m going to give you that list, and does your child go to one of these? And
what do you do if they do? And later, breaking news in the twisted twin story we brought you last night. The alleged murder case rocked to its
core. Find out why. We`d be right back.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL)
(BEGIN VIDEO
[19:15:11] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN NEWSROOM HOST: He was violent that night. He was violent that night. And I`m going to repeat it. He was
violent that night. He`s getting six months in jail for raping a girl, and a rape that was so appalling that two of his fellow students had to pull
him off of her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her voice shook and she cried, and she pointed at her perpetrator, she pointed at her attacker. Her voice got loud, and I could
hear people`s heartbeats because there was - the room was so quiet.
[19:15:43] PINSKY: We`re talking about the Stanford swimmer found guilty of raping a woman behind a dumpster after a party. Back with Anahita, Leo
and Pat. And joining us on the phone, Brian Banks. He was a star school football player with the - a player with NFL aspirations, but all of that
was side-tracked after he was wrongly accused of rape. And Brian, you were 16, and served 5 years in jail.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wow.
[19:16:06] BRIAN BANKS, AMERICAN FOOTBALL LINEBACKER: That`s correct. I was 16 years old and tried as an adult at the age of 16.
PINSKY: And how do you interpret - I mean, you were wrongly accused and yet rushed into a very long sentence, and here this kid was found guilty,
and hands-down guilty, and gets, in fact, it will be three months? Help us - help us - what - how do you experience that?
BANKS: You know, I really don`t have an explanation as to how that happened, other than there must be something going on, you know, that we
quite don`t know everything about. There`s definitely some form of privilege that`s taking place in this
situation. And I say that because I put myself in this situation as to what I would do in my own experiences when I was arrested on false claims
of rape.
I was automatically tried as an adult. They thought the case was so severe that it was unfit for juvenile court. Mind you, there was no DNA, there
was no physical evidence, nor a witness. And this girl had over five different inconsistent statements at this time. Still, it was enough to
try me as an adult.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s stunning. Are you hearing that?
BANKS: That`s why I`ve been on the case 41 years to life imprisonment.
PINKSY: It makes me embarrassed for our criminal justice system. It makes me embarrassed to be an American on some weird level, because here you are,
a young black man with wonderful aspirations and you had done nothing, is that right?
BANKS: Absolutely nothing. I mean, I chose to go to a known area, a known make-out spot, and that camp is to make out with a girl. That was the
extent of my wrongdoing.
PINSKY: Leo, help me, man. I -
[19:17:43] TERRELL: Oh, I can answer this question very easily. See, the reason why Brian got convicted because you see - because of this, see he`s
this color and Brock is this color.
PINSKY: Yeah, but, Leo, you`re part of the system that - I`m just saying, dude. I - help me understand what is happening to our system.
TERRELL: I`ll tell you right now. Listen, the criminal justice system does not have enough minority judges, does not have enough minority
district attorneys, that`s the problem. And there is that perception, Brian was the wrong color. Let`s just be honest about it. Brian got
convicted because of his skin color.
PINSKY: Well, because that`s why - and then - well, I mean - I mean, it`s even worse, frankly, because he never - he evidently didn`t also have the
resources that this other kid had, which is a double whammy.
TERRELL: Yes, but what - but the first -
PINSKY: It`s like you had - you could be - you could be a different color and with the resources still do OK.
TERRELL: No, I would disagree. Listen, what Brock got up to stand for is something that you can only - it`s unheard of. It`s unheard of. But Brian
was tried as an adult for this -
PINSKY: Aren`t you embarrassed? I`m embarrassed about our system.
TERRELL: Oh, I am, too. And trust me, I am, too. I`ve been in the system for 24 years. I got some bad news, it`s still bad. After 24 years of
fighting this system, it is still bad and it`s going to remain this bad.
PINSKY: All right. Brian, thank you for calling us. It`s just upsetting to hear the - to hear the differences. I - though I know there`s another
story national today, or similar kind of a story, and it`s just - it`s just - it`s hard - it`s hard to - everyone needs to think about this. I want to
- I promised I would show you, though, before the break, which colleges had the most sexual assaults. This is now reported in 2014. Pat, let`s look
at the list. Does any of these surprise you? There is your list, everybody. Find - look at the list carefully and see if your kids are in
these schools.
[19:19:12] LALAMA: Well, Dr. Drew, if you`re asking me, I don`t have the privilege of a monitor, so I can`t see your list.
PINSKY: Oh, I`m sorry. I thought we`ve given you the list.
LALAMA: But I hope the Ohio State University is not on there.
PINSKY: Did some of the - the Ohio State University is not on there, but some of the best schools in the country are on there.
TERRELL: Stanford.
PINSKY: And Stanford is on there, Harvard is on there, Brown is on there. Dartmouth is on there. Thank God, Ambridge College is not on there. I
know we took very aggressive actions when there was some allegations made on our campus.
TERRELL: All right. UCLA not on the list.
PINSKY: UCLA not on the list. Anahita, where did you go?
SEDAGHATFAR: UC Davis was not on the list.
PINSKY: UC Davis not on the list.
TERRELL: All right.
SEDAGHATFAR: Yeah, this is -
PINSKY: All right, but - go ahead. Finish.
SEDAGHATFAR: This is just about reports. We know that a majority of these sexual assaults don`t even get reported, Dr. Drew. So -
PINSKY: Yes. All right. I - listen, I leave this conversation with a very heavy heart, very heavy heart, both from the standpoint of sadness
about the victim, sadness about the problems, the health problems on college campuses, sadness about our legal justice system. I`m going to
switch now gears, and talk about the twisted twins. Their SUV plunged from a cliff. One is dead, one was charged with murder, not any longer however.
I have details. Breaking news after this.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A yoga teacher whose identical twin sister died after their vehicle sped off a 200-foot cliff.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Witnesses saw the sisters fighting right before the crash.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The sister was pulling her sister`s hair apparently.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The SUV accelerated, made a sharp turn into a rock wall, and showed no signs of braking.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But in court, a judge determined there was not enough to support that murder charge.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her sister`s going to be buried shortly, and ideally, she will be there to grieve with her family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:54:53] PINSKY: An update on the Twisted Twins, so called, a judge dropped the murder charges against Alexandria Duval yesterday, ruling that
it could not be proven due to a lack of evidence. Back with Anahita, Lisa and Pat. Anahita, does that ruling seemed appropriate?
[19:55:08] SEDAGHATFAR: Absolutely, Dr. Drew, I don`t think there was enough evidence to win on a murder-two charge. It just didn`t make sense.
I mean, the surviving sister, the criminal defendant here, she put herself in the same amount of danger as her sister who died. So, I think if -
PINSKY: What if it there - what if it were a murder/suicide?
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, yeah. Again, you need to prove more that this was an intentional killing. They might have overcharged with the murder-two
charge. I think that they probably could have done better with a manslaughter charge, but to prove that this was an intentional killing, Dr.
Drew, the evidence just simply was not there.
PINSKY: Joining me is Dr. Joan Friedman, she is a psychotherapist, twin expert, author of "The Same But Different," a book about adult twins. Dr.
Friedman, what do you make of these two? We are hearing there`s a lot of chaos in their relationship, they come from a family of addiction, they
were addicts, and what do you make of it?
[19:55:55] DR. JOAN FRIEDMAN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST & TWIN EXPERT: Well, I`m sorry that this happened to them, but I think the public has the right to
know that a lot of twins don`t get along, and it`s important that they understand it. These particular set of twins from what I read were so
terribly co-dependent, they basically raised themselves without a mother.
SEDAGHATFAR: Uh-hmm.
FRIEDMAN: They were loners, they apparently took showers together, they had few friends, they really had few other close friends. They were a
secretive, collusive pair, and they existed alone together in the world. And when their success was going along very well, it was fine, but the
minute they started having difficulties, which I guess were of their own making in terms of needing more money and more power and more press, they
started to get into trouble, and they had a downward spiral. And I think what happened was is that because they were so needful of one another, they
had no one else in their life.
So they started blaming each other, they were angry, they were powerless, they were defenseless. And I think, along with their drinking and all the
criminal acts, and the disorderly conduct, they were just falling down a rabbit hole. And you know, twins fight, all twins fight regardless of what
people might feel, but these twins were really, really desperate. I don`t - I have - I can`t say that it was intentional or unintentional, but they
obviously were both self-destructing in some way, and this was, unfortunately, their end.
PINSKY: Yes, And Lisa, thank you for that -- Joan, rather, Dr. Friedman, for giving us that interpretation, though. And Lisa, I`m going to go to
you. Now - so, we`ve got as Dr. Friedman is saying, we have the enmeshment, we have the downward spiral. I heard yesterday there was a
possible bipolar diagnosis. They obviously have severe addictive pathology. You actually took a class from one of the twins. You`re down
there in Florida. Did you see any of this?
[19:57:44] LISA PALMER, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: I did. Of course not. I mean, a lot of times people`s symptoms can be masked, especially when you`re in a
yoga class. You can`t always, you know, judge a book by its cover. But I personally think that they likely both had some type of PTSD symptoms that
were being presented in different forms. And I think like the other doctor had mentioned, all of this just exacerbated to the point of self-
destruction. Because what happens is when somebody undergoes, you know, trauma, and they get these PTSD symptoms, they get emotional reactive
responses, but they also get core negative rooted belief systems. And when somebody has these core negative rooted belief systems, it`s toxic. And
what it causes is a self-sabotage in different forms of their life. And these two really needed proper treatment. Obviously, I didn`t detect any
of that in a yoga class. I didn`t see any of them together. It was a calm environment. I actually love their yoga studio, and I was really sad when
it shut down, and they were gone.
PINSKY: That`s a shame. It`s a - it`s a -
PALMER: But definitely PTSD syndrome.
PINSKY: It`s a sad story, top to bottom. Pat, is this the last we`ve heard of this?
LALAMA: Well, probably, I would say, but you know, as the member of the media standing here at the Crime Watch Daily Newsroom, I`d say if this was
twins named, Ed and Fred, and they were overweight and intellectually challenged, we probably wouldn`t be covering it. There`s something about
blonde twins who shower together that makes a great television. I had to say it.
PINSKY: Thank you for that, Pat. But I - from my perspective, I - you know, people somehow interestingly can understand the progression of
addiction and alcoholism and mental health in a single individual. You need to think about this as two individuals going down the same path
simultaneously. Dr. Friedman, am I - am I getting that right?
FRIEDMAN: Well, I have - I have no understanding of how this could be PTSD. How I understand it is, you know, twins who raised one another,
these girls raised one another. They didn`t have a mother and the father was -
PINSKY: Well, that`s - but that`s - but all of it - it`s again, that`s abandonment, neglect. We have to leave it there.
PALMER: OK. But not having a mother - excuse me. Excuse me.
PINKSY: I know, I understand, Lisa. Lisa, please. I`ve got two - I`m just 15 seconds here. I`ve got to get out, but yes, that is traumatic in
and of itself, and that creates those core negative belief systems. DVR the show. You can watch us any time. Thank you, panel. Thank you for
watching. Please tell a friend. We will see you next time. Our friend, Nancy Grace is up next.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
END
