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Dr. Drew
Special Coverage: Terror In Orlando; the deadliest mass shooting in u.s. History, and the deadliest attack on U.S. Soil Since 9/11 American History; The Motive Behind That Massacre, Was It Terror Inspired By Home Homophobic Hate?; The Making Of A Mass Murderer, Predominantly Male, Young, Disaffected. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired June 13, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:16] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: The deadliest mass shooting in American history.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: The deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history, the deadliest attack on U.S. soil since 9/11.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Police say Omar Mateen carried out the massacre using an assault rifle and a 9-mm handgun.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Once people started screaming, and shots just kept ringing out.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: The 29-year-old Omar Mateen opened fire inside an Orlando LGBT nightclub.
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WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: The gunman called 911, 20 minutes into the attack to pledge his allegiance to ISIS.
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PRES. BARACK OBAMA, (D) U.S. PRESIDENT: This was an act of terror and an act of hate.
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RONALD HOPPER, FBI ASSISTANT SPECAL AGENT IN CHARGE: The FBI first became aware of Mateen in 2013, when he made inflammatory comments to coworkers
alleging possible terrorist ties.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE SURVIVRO IN THE ORLANDO MASS SHOOTING: All I know is that when I turned around, everyone was screaming and jumping.
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DR. DREW PINSKY, CNN HOST OF "DR. DREW" PROGRAM: Tonight we are holding a special town hall about the Orlando nightclub massacre. Our audience
includes members from the LGBT community, obviously profoundly affected by this tragedy.
Joining me, Mike Galanos, HLN Anchor reporting from Orlando; Jim Clemente, former FBI Profiler; Judi Ho, Clinical Psychologist and professor at
Pepperdine University and Lisa Bloom, Civil Rights Attorney at the Bloom Firm and legal analyst for avvo.com.
But first I have this. It is a chilling video that captures the horror that unfolds and it was supposed to be a night of celebration. A young
woman, they are casually snap-chatting inside the Orlando nightclub, then shots ring out. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: I am at the club.
[gunshots ]
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PINSKY: That woman, 25-year-old Amanda Alvear, fatally wounded. I am having as much trouble getting my head around this as anyone. The one
thing I have noticed, though, is I am seeing a lot of helplessness and hopelessness amongst people, both the media and out, and we must stop that.
That is not OK. It is time for action. It is time for understanding. Mike Galanos, give me the latest out there.
MIKE GALANOS, HLN ANCHOR: Well, I will tell you, Drew, we will pick up the story from there and it cannot be understated when you talk about what is
happening at 2:00 in the morning. It is a great night at Pulse, which is by the football field behind me. It is Latin night. Everyone is having a
good time.
People think those gunshots initially are sounds of a music beat pounding and thumping. Next thing you know and I am sure we are going to get in to
more of the survivor stories. Bodies are falling around them, and they know now they are in a life and death situation.
Moments later, at 2:09, Pulse, they tweeted out, "Get out and run. Get out of this building. At 2:22, you have the gunman, and think of what he is
doing? He is not only continuing an attack, but he is calling 911 and pledging allegiance to an ISIS. A three-hour standoff and some survive.
We are hearing survivor accounts where people are draping themselves in dead bodies to survive, entertainers are waiting things out. Police have
to remove an AC unit, so they can crawl out. Finally, 5:00 A.M., and SWAT Team use an armored vehicle to blow open a hole, so 30 people can get out
and escape.
And, then a deadly confrontation ensues with the gunman. He is shot and killed and that is the way it ends. But now the beginning of the sorrow,
and to your point, action that must happen moving forward, Drew.
PINSKY: Mike, thank you. I want to show you, again, that timeline of precisely what went down. At 2:02 in the morning, this guy, Mateen, enters
the so-called -- enters the nightclub, begins shooting.
An off-duty police officer responds and engages in the battle near the entrance. Mateen evidently retreats to a bathroom there with hostages. At
2:22, so 20 minutes after getting into the club, he calls 911, makes these allegiances and pledges to ISIS. He mentions the Boston bombers.
He is there for two and a half hours. At 5:00 A.M., SWAT enters the club, rescues 30 hostages, kills Mateen. Mike, do we have any sense of what was
happening between 2:22 and 5:00 A.M.? Were they communicating with him during that time?
GALAGOS: There are reports that there was some communication. And it is somewhat chilling that he is poised, and further speaking to that fact,
poised that he can continued attacking and make a phone call. Very calm as he spoke, reportedly. So that is what authorities were up against. That
is why they finally decided to act at 5:00 A.M., Drew.
PINSKY: Judy, does this surprise you? This is a very different description than say the Virginia tech shooter, who was agitated, a manic
and out of control. This is cold, calculated. It is different. The word bipolar has been raised a couple times today. This does not sound like a
manic phase, or at least not typically so.
[19:05:00] JUDY HO, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: This is not a typical manic phase. And, as you mentioned, he was calm, he was collected, there
was precontemplation. He was calm the entire time during the time that there was police swarming the outside, and when you see that very, very low
reactivity, Drew, it makes me think of something completely different. I am thinking about psychopathy.
PINSKY: Psychopathy with all sorts?
HO: Yes.
PINSKY: Jim, how about you at profiling standpoint?
JIM CLEMENTE, FORMER FBI PROFILER: Yes, exactly. That is what I was going to say. It sounds like a psychopath. A psychopath does not have the same
level of emotional range that we do. And basically, when things are going crazy, they calm down. They love the excitement. They live for this
thrilling excitement, and especially to exert that much power over other people and to see the suffering, this would have turned him on. It is
really a shame.
PINSKY: I really want to throw up now. All the feelings I had Saturday night are coming back. All right. Now, we have a video shot by a man who
lives next to the nightclub. It shows the moment SWAT stormed into the nightclub. Have a look.
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[Gunshots being fired]
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PINSKY: To me that is an unenlightened -- from law enforcement`s standpoint, that sounds like a lot of gunfire.
CLEMENTE: Well, it does not sounds like --
PINSKY: How did they save the people who ran out of the hole?
CLEMENTE: It sounds like multiple operators who are trained not to create crossfire. I think the reason why you had that three-hour delay was
because they wanted to make sure that they were safely able to make an assault and not kill innocent people and only focus on the bad guy.
PINSKY: How about why the bad guy chose that club. It was 120 miles from his home. I do not understand. They drove over an hour -- two hours to
get there? Why that club in Orlando?
CLEMENTE: Well, I mean --
PINSKY: It is bizarre.
CLEMENTE: A mile away there are 17 nightclubs that were in full function that night. This was a gay club. It was by itself. It seems like it was
a very goal-directed hate crime to me. Even though he maybe had some extremist Muslim leanings, I think that was the justification or the
rationalization, so he could take out his hate against gays and lesbians.
LISA BLOOM, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, let us be clear. This was a very crowded packed nightclub, about 300 people.
PINSKY: You think that he picked it for that reason?
BLOOM: So if you want to take out the maximum number of people, you go into a place that is very dark and very loud, and you can start shooting
with an automatic weapon and you can take out a lot of people.
PINSKY: Lisa, we live, what? 90 miles from San Diego? Can you name a club that is crowded on a Saturday night in San Diego?
BLOOM: No, but I can go --
PINSKY: No. I cannot either.
BLOOM: But, I could go online and in about 1 minute tell you what gay club in San Diego is crowded.
HO: And, Dr. Drew, he did a lot of research before. And there was actually another night club owner in the same area saying that he tried to
add him as a Facebook friend. But when he looked at him and realized it was nobody that he knew, he actually deleted that Facebook.
PINSKY: Interesting. Now, we have an update from the Orlando Regional Medical Center, where most of the shooting victims had been taken. Six of
them had been discharged, thank God. Twenty-nine remained hospitalized in good condition, 26 surgeries were performed. Five patients, however, are
still in grave condition.
A number of those critically ill and obviously in shock. Now, this dude made three 911 calls during the attack. He told the operator that he was
doing this for the leader of ISIS. Jim, what is up? Help me. I cannot get my head around this.
CLEMENTE: I think this is sort of what we looked at with al-Qaeda earlier. I mean, it is basically like an organization. They will take credit for
anybody who is successful at making terrorist claims.
PINSKY: Yes, but here is the guy -- but obviously, he may contact with them beforehand. I mean, here he is in the club shooting people, making
declarations to ISIS.
CLEMENTE: Yes, but that may be -- that he never had any direct contact with ISIS. He could have self-radicalized. He could have wanted to be
part of something whole, something bigger, something more grand than himself. Usually, these people have very poor self-images and basically
they want to feel better by hurting others.
PINSKY: And this is the thing that I wanted to get into later is, why our young men feel so disenfranchised, are not attached to anything bigger than
themselves? There is so much to be passionate about and we have young men that are floating today.
Next up, I have a young man who leaves the Pulse nightclub just an hour before gunfire breaks out. Tragically, he loses two of his friends in a
deadly massacre. That is next.
And later, the gunman, Omar Mateen; who was this mass murderer and why did he do it?
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[19:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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MINA JUSTICE, MOTHER OF ONE OF THE PULSE NIGHTCLUB SHOOTING VICTIMS: I asked him, "Was he hurt?" and he said, "Yes." Then he said, "Hurry, he is
in the bathroom with us."
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RAY RIVERA, PULSE NIGHTCLUB DJ: People were coming, hiding under my deejay booth.
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CHRIS HANSEN, SHOOTING WITNESS: It was continuous, "Bang, bang, bang, bang!" And when you realize that it is not music, that it is somebody
actually killing people or hurting people.
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ANDY MOSS, SHOOTING SURVIVOR: Once people started screaming and shots just keep ringing out, you know that it is not a show anymore.
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HANSEN: It was just like a scene from a horror movie. It was absolutely tragic.
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PINSKY: And, you were looking at a live vigil in Orlando, Florida. Forty- nine people dead, 53 injured. Gunman walks into a gay nightclub and opens fire. A bloody massacre ensues. Back with HLN`s Mike Galanos reporting
from Orlando. Former FBI profiler, Jim Clemente and psychotherapist, Judy Ho as well as Attorney Lisa Bloom. And on the phone, I have Angel David.
He left Pulse nightclub just an hour before the massacre began. Angel, how are you doing?
ANGEL DAVID, AT PULSE SAURDAY NIGHT, VICTIM`S FRIEND: I am doing great, Dr. Drew. How about yourself?
PINSKY: And what have you learned since leaving the club?
DAVID: I learned so many things, just to enjoy life to the fullest. I do not have too many friends, but that is going to be one of my goals going
forward, to make friends and live life.
PINSKY: And to value your friends, who -- and I understand you lost a couple of people in the club.
DAVID: Yes. Two of my friends, Gilberto Silva and Xavier Serrano. And one is hospitalized at the moment as we speak.
[19:15:03] PINSKY: Angel, our prayers go out to your friend that is still in the hospital and to the families of your friends whom you have lost. I
do hope people are getting counseling because there is a high probability of going from an acute stress reaction to a post-traumatic stress reaction.
And you can kind of prevent that from happening by getting proper care. Are they offering that to you?
DAVID: Yes. My job is doing a great job in doing that and I will definitely take advantage of that.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Judy, I see you nodding vigorously. Right?
HO: Yes. I mean, it is so important. Angel, I am really glad that you are going to take advantage because as early as you can get in there, get
some resources and get some coping skills, really going to help you to recover from this.
PINSKY: Thanks, Angel. Hang in there. I have also got via Skype, Nick Hornstein. He was just a few houses away when he heard shooting. Nick,
tell us what you saw and what you heard.
NICK HORNSTEIN, AT FRIEND`S HOUSE CLOSE TO THE PULSE NIGHTCLUB DURING THE SHOOTING INCIDENT: Hi, Dr. Drew. I was awakened at 2:00 by dozens of
rounds of gunfire. And I look out the apartment window of my friend`s place, and I just see people fleeing the club, screaming for help, helping
the injured move around. And the clip you are showing now is from the end of the standoff there about three hours later, where police got into the
shootout with the suspect.
PINSKY: Just hearing that flurry of gunfire is just chilling.
HORNSTEIN: Yes. It was insane to think it all went down just a couple hundred feet away, and the real shock of it was, you know, once those
numbers started coming out, the casualty numbers, the numbers of injured and dead, that is when we really got an idea of what exactly transpired
there that night.
PINSKY: In my understanding is you were on lockdown and the buildings all around the building, correct?
HORNSTEIN: That is correct. We were there -- I got there around 11:00 and fell asleep. From then on, we were not allowed to leave until 11:30 in the
afternoon.
PINSKY: Did I hear they were trying to communicate with him with a loud speaker, initially, at least?
HORNSTEIN: Yes. I definitely heard a loudspeaker. I could not make out what they were saying exactly or if they were talking to, I assume, the
suspect, who is they are addressing or just trying to control a crowd that had gathered.
PINSKY: Thank you, Nick. Now, multiple people at Pulse have said they thought the gunshots were just part of the music. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LUIS BURBANO, SHOOTING EYEWITNESS: The DJ was playing a typical set that incorporated what we thought was gunshots as part of the music. Four
shots, pop, pop, pop, pop. No one put two and two together until the fifth and sixth, between 10 and 20, that is when everything really started
getting real. We ran out. We jetted and tried just saving ourselves and saving as many people as we could just to get out of there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Immediately after the shooting, hundreds of people rushed to donate blood, but get this. The FDR regulations are the gay and bisexual
men who have been sexually active in the last year not allowed to donate blood.
I noticed comedian, Fortune Feimster posted this tweet in response, quote, "We live in a country where it is legal to buy assault weapons, it is
illegal for gay men to donate blood t help the victims of the massacre."
And Fortune, you are very kindly -- when I Facebooked you about 20 minutes ago, agreed to join me here. Please, I want to give you a chance to follow
on that tweet.
FORTUNE FEIMSTER, COMEDIAN: I mean, you know, I had not been aware of the FDA overturning that rule in December, but as you mentioned, in order for
these gay and bisexual men to donate blood, they could not have been sexually active in a year. And that very much reduces who would be able to
donate blood. I know a lot of people in Orlando, a lot of people who were at Pulse, who were very frustrated not being able to donate blood that was
so needed in order to help the victims.
PINSKY: And Fortune, I wonder if you want to give any message to people in Orlando, as you said you got friends there. This is a chance to sort of
send your support.
FEIMSTER: You know, I have been very vocal about this shooting in the last 24 hours, because I am from North Carolina originally, and I am reminding
people that this attack was something that affects all of us. And I notice on Facebook that very few people from my home state had even mentioned the
tragedy.
And we are talking about the biggest mass shooting in U.S. history. And I went on my Facebook feed for the last 24 hours and only found 38 posts of -
- probably over 1,200 friends from back in the south, who had mentioned the tragedy.
And I was like, it floored me because when there was an attack on Paris -- on my feeds were people posting pictures of the Eiffel Tower, of the French
flag and this is something that happened on our own soil.
And because it was about gay people, people just were not speaking out about it and were not supporting our community, who has been completely
rocked. And I just want people to remember that these are American. These were brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, and their lives mattered.
[19:20:17] (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Yes. Fortune, thank you.
BLOOM: That is right.
PINSKY: There is no way I could have expressed the feelings better than you just did, so thank you. Thank you, thank you.
FEIMSTER: Of course.
PINSKY: In the audience, I also have Carlos. Carlos, you actually lost two friends in this event.
CARLOS, AUDIENCE STUDIO MEMBER: Yes. I just found out I lost him today. I did not know he was at the club. I used to live in Orlando for 15 years.
A music performer and then one of my best friends, I met him there at Pulse --
PINSKY: At this club.
CARLOS: At this club. I used to go there very often.
why do you think this guy selected that club?
PINSKY: Why do you think this guy selected that club?
CARLOS: I really do not know why, because there are other clubs in Orlando that are much bigger than that. But it is a very sophisticated club. It
is a beautiful club. I remember the first time I went there, I was really impressed with the decoration.
So I met one of my best friends there. He used to be a bouncer there, and his brother, also my friend, the one who died. I did not know he was
there. I just found out this morning, and it is really hard for me to deal with this situation because Orlando is like my American hometown. I am
from Brazil.
And because I lived there for so many years, I know everybody there. And I used to go to that club a lot. Like I had a certain day of the week that I
was always going there. It was always on Wednesdays. And this friend of mine, before I moved to L.A., I actually saw him and he was a very happy
person, very smiley.
And he would see me across the room and would run to me and hug me in front of everybody, very strong hug. And that was the last time I saw him, it
was the same thing. He saw me when I was living in New York, so I had not seen him for a year. He gave me a strong hug, and I did not know that was
the last time.
PINSKY: I know I am feeling what everybody else`s feeling, that you need a strong hug. So let me do the --
(LAUGHING)
CARLOS: Thank you. Thank you.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: If I can get this camera. There we go.
CARLOS: Yes.
PINSKY: Next up, gunman, Omar Mateen -- this is the last time I am going to mention this guy`s name, but we are going to talk about who he was, why
he did it, what likely went down, how are we going to identify this kind of nonsense in someone else.
And later, the motive behind that massacre, was it terror inspired by home homophobic hate, and what else are we possibly missing here? Back after
this.
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[19:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DAN GILROY, OMAR MATEEN`S FORMER COLLEAGUE: He was an angry person, violent in nature and a bigot to almost every class of person. He said, "I
hate all those Ns and I wish I could kill them all." He would hit things. And as he was hitting things, he would yell, and of course there was always
curse words involved in that. And this was not seldom, it was almost all the time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SITORA YUSIFIY, GUNMAN`S EX-WIFE: He would get mad out of nowhere. That is when I started worrying about my safety. Then after a few months, he
started abusing me physically very often and not allowing me to speak to my family, keeping me hostage from them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: How do you describe him as a person?
SEDDIQUE MATEEN: He was a good boy. I did not see anything. He has a good education.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Not a good boy. He is a perpetrator, domestic violence, a coercive and controlling relationship with his ex-wife. Who was this guy?
It depends who you ask. People when knew him well seemed to contradict one another, which is always the way it is.
The dad says, quote, "A good boy," unquote. But as you heard the ex-wife says he was a domestic abuser. I am back with HLN`s Mike Galanos,
reporting for Orlando; former FBI Profiler, Jim Clemente; Psychotherapist, Judy Ho and Civil Rights Attorney, Lisa Bloom. So, Judy, do these
conflicting descriptions surprise you?
HO: They do not surprise me.
PINSKY: Me, neither. Yes.
HO: At all.
PINSKY: It is the way it typically is.
HO: That is right. And you know, he is somebody who, I guess, in some ways he followed a lot of rules, but when he was behind closed doors, he
took out his aggressions in the ways that he felt like he was meant to take them out. There was a sense of entitlement with the way he was treating
with women.
PINSKY: And I heard maybe some steroid abuse, which could add to the rage and the bipolarity. If that is even bipolar, but we all do not even know.
But, the dad was a Taliban -- not just Taliban sympathizer, he is a Taliban enthusiast. And the fact that he Lisa saw his son as a good boy in the
face of domestic violence, do you think maybe that was colored by his Taliban sympathies?
BLOOM: Yes. Let us call it what it is.
PINSKY: Let us do.
BLOOM: First of all, I agree with FBI Director Comey. I am not going to say his name. I am not going to give him the post-death fame that he
surely wanted or that any of the copycats might want. So I am going to call him the killer. This was evil. In cold blood, he murdered members of
the most beautiful community we have, the gay and lesbian community --
PINSKY: Lisa, he is a good boy! He is a good boy, his dad says.
BLOOM: These are the most --
PINSKY: His dad is a Taliban in sympathies.
BLOOM: These are the most courageous people in our country, because every time they hold hands, every time they kiss, they know they are risking
violence even death, and they do it, anyway. And God bless the LGBT community.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: And, you know what, Lisa? If you would said that on Friday, I would have been, "Come on now, things are better than that." Now if I had
a gay son who was contemplating on coming out -- I would say, maybe just to keep you safe -- can you imagine the stress now that gay men and women
are under?
CLEMENTE: As you said, it is going to encourage copycats if we give this guy any kind of platform to speak his hate. Clearly, this is a hate crime
--
PINSKY: Yes.
CLEMENTE: -- which was disguised in extreme religion. That is what this is, because it was targeted at a particular type of people that were
different from him.
PINSKY: And by the way --
[19:30:00] CLEMENTE: His father also said that he was very offended when he saw two gay guys kissing.
HO: Right.
BLOOM: Yes, but let us also not forget about the blue-haired Indiana white guy who came to L.A.`s Pride Festival with three assault weapons and
explosives in his car. You know, let us not forget about him.
PINSKY: I am not forgetting. But, I want to get to this gentleman. Yes, go ahead, please.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE STUDIO AUDIENCE MEMBER: This hit really close to home because I work here in L.A. Nightlife Scene, hosting events and parties,
and just my friends over the weekend, Pride for Los Angeles were, "Oh, I am afraid to go out. I am scared to go out."
HO: Yes.
PINSKY: You cannot blame them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE STUDIO AUDIENCE MEMBER: I do not want anyone feeling in fear, because something like this, if we back down, it would set the LGBT
community back like 20 years or 40 years again.
HO: Yes.
PINSKY: And I would say, look, the LAPD got this guy.
HO: Yes.
PINSKY: They are on the job. Let us let them do their job. Let us go about our lives.
HO: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE STUDIO AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. I just want everyone to just not live in fear, something like this. And like you said that we do
not want copycats or anything like this. I definitely think --
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
HO: You definitely want to live your life, but be vigilant.
PINSKY: Mike, you have new information from law enforcement about other potential soft targets. Tell me about that.
GALANOS: Yes. What we are finding out, let me read this to you, Drew, that the law enforcement, they are seeking more information on other
possible locations that the killer may have scouted, potentially Disney World. He and his family visited Disney World in April. Now, it is up for
interpretation, but that is a possibility.
And then you have a little bit later on, and they are saying, the Intelligence Committee Chairman, Richard Burr, told our colleague, Wolf
Blitzer, that he had done surveillance on this location and may be scouting out other locations as well besides Pulse, which is behind me right here.
But again, think Disney World, potentially Downtown Disney, which is games and restaurants as well. A lot of innocent people down there, Drew.
PINSKY: You cannot go there. But Jim, I talked to another security expert that said, this maybe in addition to the soft targets, another phase of
this is the fact that this guy worked for a security company that did work for the federal government.
CLEMENTE: Yes.
PINSKY: So now you have people inside where the big weapons are and things. That is where the Talibans -- or the ISIS is going to put their
emphasis next.
CLEMENTE: Yes, put their emphasis. I think they are not putting anybody anywhere. I think what is actually happening is people who are
disenfranchise from the inside. People who are not actually feeling like they fit in, they search elsewhere. They search outside for greatness and
grandeur.
PINSKY: Now, of course, the gun debate reignited. In your opinion, Jim, does arguing over guns solve the problem?
CLEMENTE: These are not argument rifles, these are assault rifles. They are made to kill the maximum number of human beings in a shortest amount of
time. Why are we handing these out to people, especially people who do not need them?
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
HO: And who has been investigated twice.
CLEMENTE: He was.
PINSKY: Well, that is my question, why are certain people -- the guy has been under the FBI`s microscope three times.
BLOOM: Nobody needs an assault weapon.
PINSKY: But wait a minute.
BLOOM: That is what allows you to kill 49 people instead of four people.
PINSKY: Lisa.
CLEMENTE: Wait. He shot over a hundred people in a very short period of time.
PINSKY: Let me raise the polemic. In France, they have strict gun laws. How did that work out there?
BLOOM: OK, but do not let the perfect be the enemy of the good. In France, they have far fewer gun deaths than we do. Far fewer. You do not
have to reduce it to zero for this to be the right answer.
From 1994 to 2004, we had an assault weapon ban. Of course, we should have an assault weapon ban. We are always going to have evil, sick people who
fantasize about going and shooting up some place. Why do we allow them in America when no other developed country allowed that?
CLEMENTE: Armed to the max.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Well, arm them -- that is my question, who is giving access, maybe some more rational procedure in place and who is allowed to access things
that are so very dangerous?
BLOOM: Background checks.
PINSKY: From our standpoint, just the mental health piece and there is so many other issues. I mean, let us protect the second amendment. Let us
also protect our community.
Next up, the motive behind the massacre. Was it an act of terror inspired by homophobic hate? Is there anything else we are missing?
And later, the making of a mass murderer, predominantly male, young, disaffected. Where have we gone wrong? Stay with us.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLAY AIKEN, ACTIVIST, AMERICAN IDOL WINNER (voice-over): The motivation, whether it is because of Islamic terrorist type attack, if a person was
motivated by religious belief, anti-American belief, I am not sure we know. But what is very clear is this is someone who targeted a very specific
population of people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (voice-over): My colleague interviewed a drag queen from Orlando who knew the shooter quite well, and said, "This
homophobia is a surprise to me." Apparently, they went to high school together. The guy used to order food from Ruby Tuesday`s and was quite
familiar with the bar staff, which included several known lesbians.
The shooter might have even attended a drag show or two. Perhaps he had some doubts or questions about his own sexual orientation. This was not an
inveterate possible bigot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And because he is dead, we may never know exactly what was going on in the head of this killer. One theory, we just implies that perhaps he
had questions about his own sexuality and acted that out violently that ambivalence, and that to reports he was radicalized and then you get
explosive combination.
Back with Mike Galanos from HLN reporting from Orlando. Also former FBI Profiler, Jim Clement; Psychotherapist, Judy Ho and Attorney Lisa Bloom.
Hours after this gentleman was killed -- gentleman? This killer was killed, his father who said this --I am resisting saying this guy`s name.
The killer was upset because he saw two gay men kissing. He posted a -- I guess he posted a video on Facebook. Part of what he said, quote -- this
is the dad, "The issue of homosexuality is something that those who do it are accountable before God, and it is not something that human beings
should do to punish them."
[19:40:00] OK. Jim, that is the father of the killer. Should we be surprised that, that infected his precision. And the father, a Taliban,
not supporter, enthusiast. He has a YouTube show here in Los Angeles, an enthusiast. We just sit around and let that happen?
CLEMENTE: Well, I mean, unfortunately we let that happened. But the fact is that when you grow up in an environment that encourages that kind of
behavior, both about sexuality and about extremism of religion and violence, you are going to get -- it is a very dangerous mix.
PINSKY: Let me go to my audience. You actually worked at the club, is that right?
UNIDENTIFIED TRANSGENDER FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. I have actually performed in the ballroom scene. So very on the ground-type deal, and I am
now a person whom acquaints myself as transgender. And a question that you had earlier was like, how could this happen in such club or why would he
pick this?
PINSKY: Why that club, yes?
UNIDENTIFIED TRANSGENDER FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Because it is almost like one way in and one way out. He particularly went to this club to know that
they would have to come through his way to get through him.
PINSKY: Oh, so there you go.
UNIDENTIFIED TRANSGENDER FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: And so I have seen a lot of people going there. And one thing that I want to say is that, hate
infectious. It starts at one place and it unfolds. Hate is derived from darkness. And from that darkness, it builds.
But something that is even greater than hate is love. And, you spread more love and that is something that can never be dissolved anywhere, because
love is always in existence, as long as you are gay, straight, whatever, there will always be love.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: Well, I agree with you, and I do not want to be Pollyannish about this. I mean, it is almost I say, "Well, we could deal the Nazis with
love." No. I don`t want to be Pollyannish.
But it is time for us, if you have anything in your heart, any ambivalence, it is time to reach your hand out and look people in the eye who may not be
like you and realize, guess what, they are like you. But you have to make that bridge. It is time for us to come together. That is the only hope we
have for this.
In the audience, I have Houchin, Deputy City Attorney for the Hollywood area of Los Angeles. He is also president of the city attorney`s LGBTQ
employees association. Steve, are you worried that all that has gone down here not just in Atlanta but the most recent in Los Angeles is going to
prevent people from going out and socializing? And I am worried that it is going to affect businesses in your part of town.
STEVE HOUCHIN, L.A. DEPUTY CITY ATTORNEY FOR THE HOLLYWOOD AREA: I do, Drew. I will tell you I was at the L.A. Pride Parade And I had people that
I knew who come to me and decided they were not going to march in the parade because they were afraid. These are strong people. That is very
tragic to me, very tragic.
PINSKY: I think it is exactly the point that we need to go out and support L.A. businesses. I mean, let us go out to West Hollywood this weekend.
BLOOM: And I think next year is going to be twice as big. Look at the Boston Marathon, right?
PINSKY: Forget next year.
BLOOM: Look at how many people went back to next year.
PINSKY: Let us go out this weekend. Let us go out this weekend.
BLOOM: Yes.
PINSKY: In the Hollywood and support the clubs.
BLOOM: Absolutely.
PINSKY: They are fun. Listen, I also want to get -- in the audience, if you guys would give me, please that slug I was going to. Yes, I got Rashad
Manji (ph), She is a Muslim. She is also a lesbian and an author. And Rashad, help us understand what might have been motivating this guy. Do
you have any sense?
RASHAD MANJI, MUSLIM AND LESBIAN: Well, I realized that you cannot reduce it to religion, but neither should we dismiss it.
PINSKY: You know what, I am going to have you stand on that X, because I can barely see you in that lightning.
MANJI: OK.
PINSKY: There you go.
MANJI : He went into Pulse screaming., "Allahu Akbar." That means "God is greater." And clearly, there was some kind of religious motivation
pulsing, if you will, through his mind, through his conscience. Now, yes, I realize --
PINSKY: Does not that break your heart more than it breaks almost anyone else is, because this is something you hold dear that he is using as a
weapon, as a club of violence?
MANJI: I will tell you what breaks my heart even more, Dr. Drew, is that journalists do not hold accountable the very apologists for people like
this. Let me give you a quick example from yesterday. There was a woman from CAIR, the Council in American-Islamic Relations on CNN and she did all
the right things for publicity reasons.
You know, condemned it. We are in solidarity, our condolences. What she should have been asked is, sure, you condemn it, but is your organization
also reaching out to mosques and asking them, in fact, demanding of them, that they not preach intolerance towards gay and lesbian people?
HO: Right.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
MANJI: She was never asked that.
PINSKY: Would that be a factor? Is that something that could happen?
MANJI: Of course it could happen. I am a product of a mosque in which that was preached. And thank God I turned out --
PINSKY: Intolerance was preached?
MANJI: Intolerance.
PINSKY: Have you gone back and confronted that?
MANJI: I did. I did, through critical thinking.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
PINSKY: That is another show.
BLOOM: The hardest thing in the world is to call your own group out on intolerance or discrimination. Rashad is a dear friend of mine. That is
what she has done all her life through her books, and her speaking. She has done that.
PINSKY: We have to have that from the Muslim communities. Make very aggressive moves.
[19:45:00] BLOOM: But a lot of people are doing it within the community today.
PINSKY: Mike, tell us about the GoFundMe page.
GALANOS: I tell you, that is one of the positives here, as a resolute community is standing up, Dr. Drew, over $1 million on the GoFundMe page.
Also funeral services for those who cannot pay for it, that could be funded as well. And people standing around , lining the streets to try and give
blood. That was the action you were talking about at the beginning of the show.
One last thing, I want to leave you with this as I am standing here. A little 6-year-old boy who is grabbing his mom`s hand. He walked pass me
over. I overheard him ask, "Why are cameras here, mommy?" And, that is the question, what do we tell him?
We want to tell him the good stories about people rising up and survivor stories, but what about the pure evil that was unleashed, and will his
world in 10 or 20 years be safer than the one that happened here at Pulse right behind me?
PINSKY: I will address that, Mike when we get back from this break, because I have something specific to say about it.
Also, America`s murderers, they are young males. They are disenfranchise. Where have we gone wrong? Is your son at risk? Time to talk to about our
kids.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[19:50:17] JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: You will notice that I am not using the killer`s name, and I will try not to do that. Part of what motivates
sick people to do this kind of thing is some twisted notion of fame or glory, and I do not want to be part of that for the sake of the victims and
their families. And so that other twisted minds do not think that this is a path to fame and recognition.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I want to take a closer look at why young men seemed to be the perpetrators of these terrible mass shootings. Jim Clemente, former FBI
Profiler; Psychotherapist, Judy Ho; Civil Rights Attorney, Lisa Bloom and on the phone I have Michael Weiss, CNN Contributor, co-author of "ISIS:
Inside the Army of Terror."
Michael, seems like disenfranchised young men like this shooter are getting attracted to ISIS much the way they get attracted to gangs in the inner
city or cults. It is the same phenomenon, is it not?
MICHAEL WEISS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: It is. And, in fact, a lot of people who go off to join ISIS are in fact former gang members who are arrested for
petty criminality or any kind of ordinary thuggishness, and they get radicalized in prison.
And so far what I am seeing with this particular individual is almost out of central casting. He was listening to the sermons of Anwar al-Awlaki,
the famous -- or I should say infamous al-Qaeda cleric in Yemen. He had undergone a process of radicalization over the course of many years.
High school classmates recall that he was celebrating the 9/11 attacks, even though his ex-wife says that he was just unhinged and was abusive
physically and emotionally, other people since his divorce have claimed that he seemed to espouse some kind of Islamist ideology and may even had
terrorist affiliation. So you can almost write this script with a crayon, Drew. And this guy is a very clear lone wolf self-radicalized agent.
PINSKY: And Michael, let me go ahead and bring out my crayon, in fact, because people that study -- You probably agree with this. Say that the
process is sort of threefold how they bring these guys in. One is something they call a cognitive opening. Usually, it is some sort of
mental illness or some sort of psychopathy, or personality problem.
You know, something you and I, Judy, could address and reduce the risk of radicalization. If families would bring them to treatment right then, but
they do not. The second is a grievance. And that grievance is typically these days America is at war with Islam, which is we have to help -- Islam
needs to help us understand and address that that is not true.
And then third is recruitment which is about giving them purpose and giving them glory and giving them eternal life or eternal euphoria, whatever it
is. Michael, how do we combat that piece?
WEIS: Well, look, it depends on what the motivation is. Unfortunately, there is no single cause for people being drawn to ISIS. I have
interviewed ISIS fighters, who had a completely secular background. They continue recite one hadith or one sura of the Quran.
And they said, they were driven into the movement because of the geopolitics of the Middle East. Bashar al-Assad scorched earth campaign
against Sunni Arabs what they perceived to be as a global conspiracy led by the United States and Russia backed by Iran and all of the Shia of the
Islamic world.
Now, the unfortunate state of affair is this is exactly the ISIS narrative and there are elements of U.S. and Western foreign policy that aeem to
corroborate it, right? I mean, we are deconflicting with Russian and Syria. We are deconflicting with the Assad regime in Syria.
We are allowing Shia militias in Iraq to run roughshod and create human rights abuses. The Sunni Ummah, the better way of describing it, has
undergone a nervous breakdown in the last several years.
They are acting, even though they are the majority sect of Islam they are behaving as though they are a beleaguered minority and they see conspiracy
and they see this kind of global campaign against them to murder and dispossess and marginalize them everywhere.
This is driving the ISIS narrative. And for guys like, you are absolutely right. Look, I mean I have seen a lot of debate in the last 24 hours, was
he mentally ill, was he emotionally unstable. I will be honest with you, people who strap suicide belts for themselves --
PINSKY: They are not well. They are not well.
WEISS: They are not well.
PINSKY: Yes. That is not a well person.
WEISS: Isis has a long history -- before it was ISIS, it was known as al- Qaeda in Iraq. I can give you an example --
PINSKY: But Michael, I have got to wrap it up, unfortunately.
WEISS: Yes, sure.
PINSKY: We are just going to take a break right here. But yes, I agree with you. There is that threefold phenomenon. And we will keep this
conversation going in a second.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: All right, I am back with my panel. And I want to ask them what do we do to deal with these disenfranchised men to give them something of
greater purpose than is more than what ISIS is offering, Lisa?
BLOOM: Well, we have to offer connections. So to anyone who has hate in their heart, I would say especially for the LBGT community, get to know
these beautiful, diverse, brave people. And you just cannot have the hate in your heart once you do.
PINSKY: OK. Judy?
HO: I think it is very important for them--
PINSKY: She says, let us build empathy is what she is saying.
HO: Building empathy, absolutely. And we need to help them achieve meaningfulness in their own life.
PINSKY: You and I try that all the time with them.
HO: Yes.
PINSKY: But it is so hard.
HO: It starts young. You have to start with children and talking to them about the fact that their lives matter. Ask them how they want to make
impact and show them that they can do it.
CLEMENTE: And treat them like we do potential gang members. In LAPD, they have police cadet program that starts with 8, 9, 10-year-olds and brings
them through into a point where they become teenagers, and then integrate into life, integrate into society.
PINSKY: We have got to do this, everybody. It is incumbent on all of us to raise our young males properly. Tonight, I am going to leave with you
the faces of some of those we lost in this senseless violence.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
END
