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Dr. Drew
New Details About The Orlando Nightclub Killer And His Inner Circle; Shooting Survivor, Orlando Torres, Who Hid In A Bathroom Stall During The Attack Heard The Gunman`s Conversations; Survival`s Guilt: A Man Who Lived To Tell, Says He Cannot Enjoy Anything Now; Parent Shaming After The Gator Attack At The Disney Resort; Facing A Flurry Of Questions Today After The Death Of 2-Year-Old Lane Graves On Their Property; A Woman Who Said She Saw An Alligator At The Lagoon During A Recent Visit To The Disney Resort; A Plead From The Stanford Rapist`s Desperate Mom Who Holds Nothing Back While Defending Her Son. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired June 16, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:15] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (voice-over): You are about to hear the gunman`s voice for the first time. 2010, he is working as a security guard and made
comments part of a documentary on the BP oil spill.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OMAR MATEEN, ORLANDO PULSE NIGHTCLUB SHOOTER: No one gives a (EXPLETIVE WORD). No one gives (EXPLETIVE WORD) here. Like everybody is just out to
get paid. They are like hoping for more oil to come out and more people to complain, so they will have jobs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (voice-over): Shooting survivor, Orlando Torres, who hid in a bathroom stall during the attack heard the gunman`s
conversations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ORLANDO TORRES, ORLANDO MASSACRE SURVIVOR: Not sounding like a nut job, not sounding, you know, like he has lost it. And he said, "Well, I am here
at the club and it should be already all over the media, news media." And that he is there with three others and he is the fourth gunman and also
that he was wearing a bomb vest.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Noor Salman is the second wife, not widow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: But she said she did not know anything about this attack. But she now says that she apparently had a suspicion he might
be heading towards an attack.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST OF "DR. DREW" SHOW: Tonight, new details about the Orlando nightclub killer and his inner circle. Are his widow and
father co-conspirators in some way? Investigators are determined to learn who else might have had a role in this massacre.
Joining us Kirt Schlichter, Attorney, retired Army Colonel, conservative commentator; Tiffanie Davis-Henry, Psychotherapist and Brian Todd, CNN
Correspondent in Orlando. Brian, what is the latest in this investigation?
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Drew, there are so many threads to follow with the latest that we have is that the shooter, Omar Mateen, and
his wife exchanged text messages about two hours into the rampage. This would have been about 4:00 a.m. on Sunday.
According to law enforcement sources who have spoken to CNN, that at one point, Omar Mateen texted his wife when he was holdup inside the bathroom
of the Pulse nightclub and asked her if she had seen the news. They had texted. They exchanged a couple of text messages back.
At one point, according to law enforcement sources, she texted him back and told him that she loved him. According to our sources, she also tried to
call him several times during the rampage and he never picked up, Drew.
PINSKY: Thanks, Brian. One of the witnesses said Mateen claimed he was one of four gunmen, that he had strapped himself and some of the hostages
with bombs. Kurt, our friend John Cardillo believes there were more shooters. What do you say?
KURT SCHLICHTER, ATTORNEY: Well, Drew, it is hard to say. No one has actually set eyes on two gunmen at once. There is obviously a lot of
confusion, a lot of darkness. I am kind of puzzled like my friend, John Cardillo is about the logistics of this, to shoot 100 people, to accurately
hit that many moving targets in the dark with the kind of weapons he had.
Really is hard to believe. I mean, that is the kind of tactical proficiency you would expect from an expert, not a half-wit amateur like
this moron. I do not know what to think, Dr. Drew. I really do not know what to think now.
The police have not said there is another gunman. They have not identified any other shells that we know about. But what this guy did was very, very
logistically difficult. So I am kind of baffled.
PINSKY: Now, just before the massacre, the shooter went on to Facebook and here is what he said, quote, "America and Russia stop bombing the Islamic
state. You kill innocent women and children by doing U.S. air strikes. Now taste the Islamic state vengeance."
In his final post as an ominous warning, quote, "In the next few days, you will see attacks from the Islamic state in the USA. Now, Facebook CEO,
Mark Zuckerberg, is being asked to turn over all the records of the killer`s activity. Kurt, I have a more global question here. Would you
put your attorney hat on for a second?
If this were a physical space, and Mark Zuckerberg owned the business in this physical space and people were raising money to do dangerous and
horrible things to other people, advocating aggressive violence or rioting, that business would not be allowed to do that. Why do we allow medias in
cyberspace to do this?
SHCLICHTER: Well, there are a lot of laws to protecting our rights of free speech.
PINSKY: Wait. Kurt. Kurt.
SCHLICHTER: Wait.
PINSKY: Just one thing. Why --
SCHLICHTER: But, I am telling you the answer.
PINSKY: OK. Tell me. Tell me.
SCHLICHTER: You need an answer I necessarily want, but we look lean over in favor of free speech. So when people say idiotic things, we tend not to
take them seriously in the way we would.
You know, I kind of expect if the FBI has been watching this idiot for years they might, you know, take a look at his Facebook once in a while and
say, "Hey, you know, he is posting that ISIS is coming. Maybe we should go talk to this guy."
I do not feel it is right to blame it on Mark Zuckerberg. I got my own beef with Mark Zuckerberg. I am a conservative. He seems to kind of
discriminate against us. But that is not the issue here and this is not Zuckerberg`s fault and it is not the NRA`s fault.
[19:05:05] And it is not people who do not like transgender bathrooms fault. It is this little bastard`s fault, him and all his scummy friends.
And until we clean out this nest of vipers in the Middle East by going in there and leveling them, we are going to keep seeing this.
PINSKY: Bran Todd, this guy has behavior problems. I believe you are standing in front of the Grammar School where he first manifested some of
these behavior problems. And I am so mystified, why this kid did not get help early, maybe some of this could have been diminished.
TODD: It could have been, Drew. But I have to tell you that the school system here in St. Lucie County tried. We have 176 pages of documents here
that I have got in my hand that we have been going over all day long from the St. Lucie County School System.
This kid had disciplinary problems dating back to at least third grade. I am going to read to you very quickly. Here is just a little blurb. He was
verbally abusive, rude, aggressive, talks constantly about sex and violence. This is when he was third grade. He would have been maybe 8
years old when he was doing this.
We have records from here of him being disciplined 31 times between 1992 and 1999. We have a former classmate here at the Mariposa Elementary
School, who said that one day when he was in either 4th or 5th grade, he threatened to come in here with a gun and kill everyone. And this
classmate does not remember the exact discipline that was meted out, but he said it was a big deal at the time.
PINSKY: Of course.
TODD: Now, we do have to say that these records show that the school system repeatedly tried to intervene. They tried to give him psychological
counseling, other counseling. And just none of it worked.
PINSKY: Obviously. I will tell you what. It does not work if the family does not sign on and support it. And this is a kid who would need years of
work and the family would have to participate in it. And that is a psychiatric/psychological emergency you are talking about.
It is not a discipline problem. It is a sick kid. On the phone I am joined by Dan Gilroy, a former coworker of the Orlando killer. Now, Dan,
you worked as a security guard with this guy. And you say, you actually had to complain to your about his behavior. What was it that he had done?
DAN GILROY, WORKED SECURITY WITH OMAR MATEEN: It was a year worth of just constant cursing, loud, bigot language, derogatory statements. And yes, he
said several times, he was going to kill a large group of people. In fact, one time he said I would make the count the highest.
PINSKY: Now, Dan, just for the organization has said has no record of the complaints, but tell me more. What else happened?
GILROY: Well the complaint was oral. I told my supervisor. But they seemed to not want to care and made the issue my issue.
PINSKY: And you actually took action yourself. Tell me what you did.
GILROY: Well, I confronted him. I told him I needed him to keep his mouth shut. I needed him not to curse or to demoralize anybody. I did not want
him to text me anymore or call me anymore. And I told him --
PINSKY: What were in these texts?
GILROY: Well, prior to that conversation it was only once a week. He would send me jokes. The jokes would be not jokes. They would be a
decaying hanging black man from a tree.
PINSKY: Oh my God!
GILROY: Bodies -- little fat little babies with comments about welfare. I mean it was just disgusting.
PINSKY: Oh my God. Dan, has the FBI came and spoken to you about this?
GILROY: Amazingly enough, no.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: That to me is stunning. But, Dan, thank you for reporting to us. Tiffanie, I mean, there you go. I mean, this is somebody with psychopathy
in addition to God knows what else.
TIFFANIE DAVIS-HENRY, PH.D., PSYCHOTHERAPIST: For sure.
PINSKY: And he was a radicalized psychopath. The worst possible combination
DAVIS-HENRY: Yes, and it is deep rooted. This is not something that just started yesterday or last week. It is certainly something that has been
going on for a while. And you made a great point earlier. Teachers can only do so much. They can identify problems. They can make suggestions,
but they certainly cannot make the horse drink.
They cannot make the students get treatment or mandate treatment and care. And certainly the parents do have to be involved in that. This is a
family, a systemic issue and not just that child. We can no longer allow stigma to paralyze us in mental health issues.
PINSKY: Listen, I do not think it is stigma --
DAVIS-HENRY: And, I think like that is what has happened.
PINSKY: No. I do not think it is stigma. I think the father needs to be held responsible to some of these, what is gone on here.
Listen. Thanks, guys. Next up, survival`s guilt. A man who lived to tell, says he cannot enjoy anything now. And he wanted more of his friends
to get out alive, did not work out that way.
And still to come, parent shaming after the gator attack at the Disney Resort. Who if anyone is to blame? Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTIAN ORTIZ, SURVIVOR OF ORLANDO ATTACK: We are called the three amigos because we always were together, always. And then the lights went
off. It was so dark. And I cannot see the people falling dead in front of me.
CARLOS MUNIZ, SURVIVOR OF ORLANDO ATTACK: So, I just grabbed him by his shirt and dragged him with me into the bathroom. And jimmy stood there,
just lying down. And at the moment, Jimmy was still alive. He froze. He was so panicked that he froze. He laid down face down and he covered his
face like this.
ORTIZ: I was looking for Jamey and I cannot find him. I said Jamey where you are? Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy. And, when I looked back that is when I saw
that everybody was getting dead. He was shooting people on the floor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (voice-over): Christian and Carlos wonder why did they survive while the other member of the three amigo amigos, Jimmy,
did not.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: The people who are not murdered at Pulse nightclub early Sunday morning are gripped with overwhelming and mixed emotions. Survivors guilt
amongst them.
Back with Attorney Kurt Schlichter, Psychotherapist Tiffanie Davis-Henry. Joining us Ivory McNeall who survived the attack at Pulse. I also have
Yasmin Vossoghian, HLN Correspondent in Orlando. Yasmin, the president was there today. Tell us about that.
YASMIN VOSSOUGHIAN, HLN CORRESPONDENT: He was, Drew. You know, if you can see mind me, Pulse nightclub just behind me, behind my right shoulder in
front of it is the ATF, still an ongoing investigation. For this community, it really needs healing right now.
[19:15:05] The president coming today sort of as a consoler in chief along with Vice President Biden. And Senator Marco Rubio, really interesting,
when the president walked off Air Force I, Senator Marco Rubio in tow, sort of showing a sense of unity politically. He met with families of victims
with survivors and first responders.
And the White House telling us it was going to be an emotional meeting for them, and it seemed to be there. It was at the Amway Center in downtown
Orlando. And he spoke about it at 4:00 today. He arrived at 1:00 p.m. He spoke about it at 4:00 p.m.
And talking about the emotion that was exchanged between the family members of the victims and the survivors and sort of how they said, how could that
happen again? The question that we have asked over and over again when the news went off on Sunday morning, when your radio sparked, when you got the
tweet, when you looked at your Facebook and you saw it happened yet again.
This is the tenth visit like this that President Obama has made to a town that has faced tragedy such as this one. And what those people are asking
for is increased gun measures. And President Obama talked about that at 4:00 p.m. today. There is four measures that are going to hit the floor on
Monday.
Sources are telling us, it is not going to get passed. What these measures are saying in general is basically increase laws on background checks along
with the fact that if you are on a terror watch list, you do not get to buy a gun. Again, sources are telling us that is not necessarily going to get
passed.
He also said that we are going to make sure that we increase our efforts on ISIS, that is what he said, but saying this is home grown terror. That is
something that we wanted to drive home. And this guy got a weapon in his hands that he should not have had.
Drew, on a personal note, I have only been here overnight. Mike Galanos was here covering for HLN for the last couple days, doing a fantastic job
at that; but walking around this town there are so many memorials sprouting up. You cannot even imagine.
You can only feel the energy unless you are here. You see "Pray for Orlando" everywhere you look, in front of the Amway Center, where the
president was. There were flowers sprouting up. There are memorials there.
Just a block away from here, couple of blocks away from here is a hospital where all of the survivors went, along with the victims of shooting. Lots
of memorials sprouting up there as well, where people able to convene or where the community be able to convene to provide solace for one another.
PINSKY: Yes. It is good to hear. It is good to hear.
VOSSOGHIAN: This is really an incredible energy that is coming out of Orlando right now, Drew.
PINSKY: Good to hear. Thank you. Good to hear that they are coming together, because that is the only way to get through something like this.
I want to switch over to Ivory. Ivory, you were there. What was your experience during the attack?
IVORY MCNEAL, ORLANDO MASSACCRE SURVIVOR: Just horror. You know, just being afraid. I feel like a lot of us were really confused a lot of the
time. Like we did not know what was going on. We did not know how in- depth, how crazy everything was when it was all happening.
PINSKY: Are you having this experience that many of the survivors are describing of feeling why me and then guilty that you survived, when others
did not? And by the way it is perfectly legitimate to go, "No, I am just grateful that I got through this," because that is also a very reasonable
and appropriate emotion.
MCNEAL: Yes. I would say that, that is where I am coming from. I do not feel regret that I survived. I think that if this were to happen again,
like I would do the same thing. I wish more of my friends got out. I think where I am at right now is not being able to enjoy things that I
normally would.
PINSKY: Right. Do you feel numb?
MCNEAL: I think one of the things are just as simple as like music. Like I really have not listened to music since all of this has happened.
PINSKY: Yes. Tiffanie -- I am going to go to Tiffanie, you, psychotherapist. Tiffanie, it is sort of appropriate, typical, even there
is a numbing that goes on after this. It is hard to enjoy anything when you have been through something like that.
TIFFANIE DAVIS-HENRY, PH.D., PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Absolutely, Dr. Drew. And you never know what types of things may trigger. Ivory just spoke about
music, being something that maybe he and others have always enjoyed and always looked to, to make them happy and to find solace and comfort, and
now this is something that kind of triggers more of a negative emotion.
And I think many of the survivors will kind of have similar feelings. Maybe it is not about music, maybe it is the smell in the air of a club or
even the idea of going to a club or maybe it is the flashing lights that will trigger memories.
I just ask that Ivory and the others just really be patient and kind with themselves and give themselves the space to feel whatever it is that they
are feeling and know that they have every right to any and every emotion that they might be feeling right now.
PINSKY: And Ivory, what do you want us to know, people who were not there that night? What would you tell us?
MCNEAL: I feel like just being on social media right now. There is a lot of people posting things, whether they are going to the beach and it took
me a while to like really not get upset about that. Because I am a huge part of this community and just seeing people posting like happy pictures
after something so detrimental happened like , I am like how can you do that?
[19:20:00] DAVIS-HENRY: Yes.
MCNEAL: Especially when you are a part of the LGBT Community or are just living in Orlando, like the feeling that is out there like it is insane to
me. And, I felt like it was really inappropriate but then I have to step back and realize that I cannot judge.
PINSKY: You can. No. He is entitled. You are OK to judge. But the other thing is people, who I have spoken to that survived this want to be a
living memory of those that did not make it. Is there any names you would like to speak, anyone you would like to tell us about that we should keep
in our memories?
MCNEAL: I would probably say my friend -- well I have known him as Bryson Banks but I guess, you know, everyone knows him as Eddy. I was going over
just text that we had and like that is definitely someone that sticks out of my mind.
Eddy Justice and then Javier King as well. He worked at the mall with me and would always come and see me for my breaks and you know, it is just
really sad that they are gone.
PINSKY: It is really sad. But we are glad that you are here and hopefully we can all be a living testament to their memory. And, listen, I know you
are numbed. I know you are having trouble right now. Make sure you get some help. Because this can go from an acute stress reaction to a post-
traumatic stress reaction really easily.
DAVIS-HENRY: That is right.
PINSKY: And the sooner you get help and the more you sort of deal with getting back connected in your body again, which is, again, normal to have
this numbing but it can really create trouble later, OK?
MCNEAL: I know. Yes. I mean I am seeing it already.
PINSKY: All right. Good. OK, buddy. All right, take care of yourself. We are back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (voice-over): Disney facing a flurry of questions today after the death of 2-year-old Lane Graves on their
property. The toddler was snatched by an alligator at Disney`s Grand Floridian Resort, Tuesday night. His body was recovered yesterday
afternoon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERIFF JERRY DEMINGS, ORANGE COUNTY POLICE DEPARTMENT: The family was distraught but also I believe somewhat relieved that we were able to find
their son with his body intact.
(END VIDEO CLIP
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICK WILEY, FLORIDA FISH AND WILDFIRE CONSERVATION COMMISSION EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR: We are going to make certain that we have the alligator that was
involved and that we remove it from the lake.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (voice-over): We know that there is a network of canals that leads to other larger bodies of water, so there is no
guarantee that that gator is still in the seven seas lagoon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: But many wonder why signs along the Disney lake only warn guests not to go swimming, leaving out any mention of
the real-life danger lurking beneath the surface in a land famous for make believe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Alligator lurking at the lagoon at the Disney Resort, grabbed a small boy from the water`s edge while his parents struggle to save him, can
you imagine? Tonight, we know that gators are quite common there, but attacks are not. Back with Kurt and Tiffanie.
Joining us now, Yodit Tewolde, attorney and former prosecutor. Now, for the very latest, first, though, I want to get out to Jessica Schneider, CNN
Correspondent in Lake Buena Vista, Florida. Jessica, they now have done an autopsy on the child and the findings were?
JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Dr. Draw. The autopsy completed this afternoon. The findings show that 2-year-old Lane Graves
died of drowning and traumatic injuries. It is something that the sheriff of Orange County talked about yesterday and it kind of -- it shows that
perhaps that this death did not come completely from the alligator attack itself, but did result from his time in the water.
And you know, the investigators and the dive teams actually found that boy just a few feet from where he was initially attacked. So such a sad and
tragic scene, especially knowing that he ultimately died from drowning and those traumatic injuries.
PINSKY: Can you imagine if you are a parent? It is just too much to believe. Jessica, let me ask you about the resort. Are things returning
to normal there?
SCHNEIDER: Yes. We were around the resort today. We saw people at the pools enjoying themselves. But one thing to note that they have basically
put the beaches at Disney on lockdown. There are signs up saying that people cannot go to the beaches.
And we actually just got word literally moments ago from a senior Disney source that says immediately signs will be going up on those waterways,
next to the waterways saying, "Beware of alligators" or something to that effect.
So Disney is taking very swift action. We heard from them in a statement earlier today saying they that would be reviewing all of their protocols
and all of their signs and all of their warnings. So they are taking this obviously very seriously and moving towards steps to rectify or make sure
that this situation hopefully does not happen again.
PINSKY: Thank you, Jessica. Appreciate it. Joining me on via Skype, I have Wes Moore, he is an alligator behaviorist, owner of Alligator Alley.
Now, Wes, lots of viewers are asking, why there was not some sort of barrier or other sort of safety measures taken by the resort prior to this
tragedy. Help us to understand that.
WES MOORE, ALLIGATOR BEHAVIORIST: Well, you know, the state of Florida first of all, it is swamp. So people need to talk into account that every
fresh body of water has the potential to have an alligator there. The risk is always going to be there and it is just an assumed risk.
The no swimming signs, typically you would think would relay please stay out of the water. But then again people are not from there, they are down
there having a good time and they do not necessarily realize the threat that alligators do pose.
PINSKY: I have been to that lagoon, Wes. It never occurred to me that an alligator would attack me or my kids. I was there years and years ago. Do
Floridians know that they have to be on alert for this all of the time, and is it reasonable that people from out of the state or out of the country
would have the same awareness?
[19:30:00] MOORE: You know, I think people come to Florida expecting to see alligators. You know, it is the mascot of the University of Florida.
So people are coming down here, they want to see the wildlife. In one of those things, they want to see our alligators. Unfortunately, when we have
encounters like this, it puts the alligators in a bad limelight.
PINSKY: I understand as people feeding them is bringing them close, and I understand d that they feed at the water`s edge, there is a lot -- Let me
just ask this. A lot of people are asking me also, how they might identify the alligator who actually did this. How would they do that?
MOORE: Like any forensic test, the alligator has a specific bite pattern. So the injuries that are on this small child will be consistent when they
do catch the alligator. So they will be able to match in the imprint of those teeth from the exact alligator in the two injuries that were
sustained by this child.
PINSKY: Now, earlier today, I spoke to a mother who had allowed her 3- year-old son to play in the exact spot, where this little boy, Lane Graves, had been snatched by the alligator.
I have been in those spots. I have been on many of those beaches. There are two big lagoons there. I have been on many of those. And she says
like I, she never imagined it was dangerous. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNIFER VENDITTI ROYE, MOTHER STAYING AT DISNEY RESORT: He took off and he was standing in the water. And I even went back to get my phone to take
pictures. I knew it was our last night, the sun was starting to set. But those pictures were taken between 8:00 and 8:30 of him standing in the
water at the exact spot.
I actually encouraged him to stand there, so I could take the pictures. And I was down there, myself. So it never crossed my mind. I think the
scene where that particular spot is, one would not think that there would be an alligator right at that central well-lit high traffic area.
It could have been any mom, like I said I usually have three children in tow. This time I just had one child and I chose to let him do the very
same thing in the very same spot minutes before that occurred and let him stay there to take pictures. I mean tragedy can strike at anytime.
Sometimes we just do not have answer for things and this is one of those times.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So Yodit, do you think this is a liability there? Myself, that woman, we did not even contemplate that there could be an alligator attack
in that lagoon.
YODIT TEWOLDE, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Right. So the issue of liability goes to one question and that is knowledge. Did Disney have knowledge of any
potential dangers of alligators on their property? And with knowledge comes action. Actions, what steps did they take to ensure that their
property was safe for they patrons, and this family were patrons.
They are invitees who visited thise resort. And they are owed a duty. Disney owed them a duty to keep their property safe, thus keeping them
safe. So what the inquiry is, what did Disney know and what steps were taken in order to ensure that their property was safe and to warn the
public of any potential dangers.
And for for me, I do not really understand how Disney could not have known when they are routinely -- and they admitted this, routinely removing
alligators from their property. But with Florida law, the tourism industry, and it is really hard for people to prove that Disney is going to
be liable in any situation.
PINSKY: All right. Next up, I got a woman who said she saw an alligator at the lagoon during a recent visit to the Disney Resort. I will talk to
her.
And later, how far would you go to keep your own son out of jail? We will tell you what the mother of the Stanford rapist did do. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NIKE HILEMAN, PARK DIRECTOR, GATORLAND: This is the peak time for alligator activity right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Regularly seen on highways, golf courses, even inside swimming pools.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACK HANNA, DIRECTOR EMERITUS, COLUMBUS ZOO (via phone): Gators can go through pipes. They can walk down roads. They can do all sorts of things
to get in there. They try to remove those gators. Golf courses have gators. They can run 20 to 30 feet faster than any human on the planet. I
have seen him -- it is almost frightening how fast they go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILEMAN: With the millions of people that are in the state of Florida and the million alligators, the number of attacks is surprisingly low.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Terrified parents watch as an alligator grabbed their 2-year-old son from the beach and dragged him underwater. Tonight, I am speaking to a
mom who spotted an alligator in the exact spot on a recent trip to the Disney`s Grand Floridian hotel. Back with Kurt, Tiffanie, Yodit and Wes.
And joining us now by phone, I have Allison Taylor, familyvacationsus.com. Allison, you saw an alligator in the same lagoon on your last trip to
Florida. Tell me about that.
ALLISON TAYLOR, FAMILY SAW GATOR AT RESORT: Hi. Yes, I did. We were -- my son and -- sorry, my husband and two sons were walking down to the area
and an elderly couple stopped them and said, "Hey, there is an alligator at the lagoon. You do not want to go there." And they headed back up to the
room. And I looked out on the balcony and saw what they were talking about.
PINSKY: You told my producers something about what you called the Disney bubble. Tell me about that.
(LAUGHING)
TAYLOR: Well, you know, I think when everybody goes to Disney they are happy. They are supposed to be happy. People save for a long time for
these vacations. And they are surrounded by Mickey Mouse and Tinkerbell and nobody thinks about alligators. I, certainly, did not until I thought,
"Oh, yes, it is Florida as well as Disney World."
PINSKY: Yes. And it is something -- it just requires -- I do not think we will forget it now and unfortunately a young life has been lost. Tiffanie,
I want to go to you. When I think about dealing with -- if I were one of these parents or if I were dealing with one of these parents, there is
almost nothing that you can do in these early days other than medication.
DAVIS-HENRY: Dr. Drew, I am sorry. I was having trouble hearing you.
PINSKY: Well, I was just saying if I were one of these parents, I would be thinking about jumping off of a build and then no amount of talking would
do much with that. And if I were helping one of these folks, I would also think just about all you could do is medication to get through this.
[19:40:00] DAVIS-HENRY: Yes. This is a very tough spot. And there is a lot of shaming going on, a lot of blaming going on. And we do not need to
pile on to these parents. They are doing enough blaming and rethinking the events of the days, the weeks, the moments before this happened enough. We
do not need to pile on with that at all, and I think that it is a traumatic loss.
PINSKY: Yes. Tiffanie, I want to flip it around. What is wrong with people? Judge not lest you be judged.
DAVIS-HENRY: Yes.
PINSKY: What does that do for people to sit in judgment of these people, that are suffering more than anybody could possibly suffer?
DAVIS-HENRY: Absolutely. And Dr. Drew, you spoke about this earlier as well. You have been to this lagoon. Many parents have been to this
lagoon. This could have happened to anyone.
PINSKY: Yes.
DAVIS-HENRY: The parents could have been sitting right next to the child and the same thing could have happened. This was something that could not
have been prevented and my prayers, my hearts, my thoughts go out to these parents because they are suffering something that is traumatic that I would
not wish on any parents.
PINSKY: Florida`s Fish and Wildlife Commission is coming to the defense of the Disney Resorts. The critics complained that the gators were allowed to
get too close to the guests. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICK WILEY, FLORIDA FISH AND WILDFIRE CONSERVATION COMMISSION EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR: Disney has been very proactive with regard to dealing with
alligators and having -- as the sheriff said, a full-time staff observing these waters. They have essentially an open system permit where anytime
they see an alligator or a complaint is called in that it can be taken out.
And these alligators are not relocated. These alligators have to be euthanized because when they become a problem, that if you move them
somewhere, you are just moving a problem. So Disney does everything by the book and they have an amazing program for keeping track of and monitoring
and then addressing any concerns that arise.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Kurt, do you agree or there is more that could have been done?
SCHLICHTER: This is crazy, Dr. Drew. Holy cow! You have visitors from out of town with little kids who do not know anything about Florida, do not
know anything these beautiful wild animals, but they are wild animals. They eat meat. They hurt people. And they do not even have any reasonable
signage up.
Look, I am a defense attorney. I defend people against frivolous lawsuits. But this one, I do not see it as frivolous. You cannot run an organization
and allow these wild reptiles to get right up to people without giving them fair warning about it. I find it disgraceful. This is terrible.
PINSKY: Yodit, they are trying to keep them away but they need more warning. Do you agree?
TEWOLDE: Absolutely. The "No Swimming" sign was not enough. Now, if I were a parent and I did see a "No Swimming" sign, I am not going to have my
kid out there by some water at 9:00 p.m. That is a question that I am not going to lie. I did ask. However, they need more signage. You have
animals, like I said, they routinely remove alligators from their property.
PINSKY: I am going to defend the parents. If I were that parent, I would think my child is not swimming, they are walking on the shoreline. That is
not swimming. Wes, did they do enough? Do you agree?
MOORE: At the end of the day, it is a tragic accident. But, if take into account, 9:30 at night, there is a small what child, he is at the watt
every is edge. Now, the no swimming sign, was it adequate, that is not for me to argue.
But, again, you lock at an aerial photo of that lagoon, all around it, it is surrounded by swamp. It is surrounded by alligator habitat. So it is
impossible to say they could prevent alligators from coming and going.
Who knows, that alligator may have only been to that lagoon that day. It is impossible to say. So again, it is a tragic accident. And it is one
that, you know, hopefully will never be repeated at Disney World.
PINSKY: All right. Next up, hear from the Stanford rapist desperate mom who holds nothing back while defending her son.
And reminder John Walsh is back. We have an all new season of "The Hunt" with John Walsh, which is starting June 19. Watch it here on HLN.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: You do not know me, but you have been inside me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: The searing words of a sexual assault victim brought to life by people who have never met her, but what her voice heard.
The 12-page letter first read out loud in court by the 23-year-old sexual assault victim to her 20-year-old attacker, former Standard student and
swimmer, Brock Turner. The judge sentences him to just six months in jail and three years probation, in line with the probation officer`s
recommendation. His ruling sparks outrage.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Tonight, we are learning more about that presentence recommendation submitted to the judge. I am back with Kurt, Tiffanie and
Yodit. IN the report, the probation officer who is a female cited amongst other things, Brock Turner`s, quote, "Lack of a criminal history, his
youthful age, and his expressed remorse and empathy towards the victim."
Tiffanie, I do not know. There is expressed empathy, but this is the guy who was taking pictures of her breasts, sending them to friends, ran away
when he got caught. That is called empathic failure.
DAVIS-HENRY: Absolutely. I mean, he was drunk enough to do what he did but not drunk enough to run away and acknowledge that he was doing
something wrong. I think it is absurd.
I think everything that was written in this report is absurd. I think it is absurd that they are feeling like there should be a lack of
responsibility because he was drunk or it should be seen as less serious because he was drunk.
I do not know any accident, car accident where a drunk driver is involved, where we think that the accident is less serious and is less -- the crime
is less heinous because he is drunk. That just does not make sense. It is absurd.
PINSKY: Yes. It is right. It is -- rather than a mitigating circumstances, a contributing phenomenon.
DAVIS-HENRY: Absolutely.
PINSKY: That same probation officer also referenced the drinking and used that as a push for leniency. She said, quote, "This case when compared to
other crimes of similar nature may be considered less serious due to the defendant`s level of
Intoxication."
[19:50:07] Yodit -- So what? The Alcohol consumption is a defense for rape? I mean, the whole thing, it is unsavory, all of this. It is so
unsavory. And, when you think about other young men, who do not look as relatable to the judge in other parts of the country, they get much more
stiff. I understand it varies state by state, but it seems to me both this probation officer and the judge identified too strongly with this guy.
(AUDIO PROBLEM)
Yodit, I cannot hear you. Go ahead. We lost you for a second. I got you now. Go ahead.
TEWOLDE: OK. Although the backlash, especially with this judge is completely warranted, look, I do not agree with a six-month jail stint for
this individual who was convicted of three felonies. I think it is horrible. I think it was a miscarriage of justice.
However, I do not think that the backlash in wanting to remove this judge from the bench is appropriate. Let me tell you why. It is typical and it
is common that before a judge sentences an individual to a felony or for a felony, there is a presentencing investigation, as what you were just
talking about.
And in that report, the probation officer gathers all this information and takes that information, makes a recommendation that is supposed to be
neutral and then presents that to the judge, and the judge can either do two things -- one of two things. Follow the recommendation or deviate from
it.
And that judge followed the recommendation. And he was legally obligated - to do -- he was not obligated, but he was legally OK to do that. And so to
ask that he be removed, especially when the D.A. himself said that he did not agree with the judge`s punishment, but did not think that he should be
removed from the bench.
I think that that would be very dangerous. Because what are we going to do? Start removing every judge who sentences somebody that you do not
agreed because of his vision? You cannot just keep removing.
PINSKY: We cannot do that, I agree. And it is interfering with professional functions that we were not there, we do not know about it.
But Kurt, it may have been legal. It is still disturbing.
SCHLICHTER: It is absolutely disturbing. This is about 20 miles from where I grew up, and my family was involved in the legal system up there.
So I know it fairly well. I got to say if this kid had not been a clean- cut Stanford student, he would not be getting six months.
DAVIS-HENRY: Absolutely.
SCHLICHTER: Dr. Drew, when you have justice, it has to be the same for everybody. It has to be somebody from the ghetto of East Palo Alto, a few
miles away that it is this kid. I am embarrassed. I am embarrassed by the legal system.
PINSKY: Kurt, what is the statue with the scale of justice standing over the court? What is she wearing around her face?
SCHLICHTER: Exactly, it is a blindfold.
PINSKY: a blindfold. Blindfold. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Stanford rapist, Brock Turner, facing 14 years in prison. Got six months in county jail. With good behavior, probably serve three months.
Back with Kurt, Tiffanie and Yodit. Kurt, convicted of a felony sexual assault, out in September. Does that seem fair to you?
SCHLICHTER: No, it does not seem fair. Three months for -- Well, it is three felonies. I think it is 289 and a 220. You know, I just cannot get
by this. Dr. Drew, I cannot accept this, because this would not happen to anybody who was not a Stanford student.
This would not happen to anybody whose parents were not wealthy. If it was someone else, they get a sentence that it was appropriate. Why did not he?
What kind of justice system do we have?
PINSKY: Here is Brock Turner`s mother who wrote a letter to the judge asking for leniency during the sentencing procedure. We have an audio
recreation, and this letter has been edited for time. Please listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO REENACTION)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: This is his future life. I beg of you please do not send him to jail or prison. Look at him. He will not survive it.
He will be damaged forever. And I fear he would be a major target; Stanford boy, college kid, college athlete, all the publicity. This would
be a death sentence for him.
Having lost everything he has ever worked for his entire life, and knowing the registry is a requirement for the rest of his life certainly is more
than harsh. Your honor, please be kind and merciful to my beautiful son. He is suffering.
(END AUDIO REENACTION)
PINSKY: Yodit, I do not know. Listen. This whole thing is a tragedy. It is sad. But no one is talking about the victim.
TEWOLDE: Exactly.
TEWOLDE: No one is talking about the victim. And I think a lot of what she was saying in the letter could have been applied to the victim. Her
life is ruined. But you know what? We are not surprised here, because as a mother, any parent would write on behalf of their son --
PINSKY: Sure.
TEWOLDE: -- and plead to the court for leniency. But this also reminds me of the judge that gave the affluenza teen ten years` probation for killing
four people. And that was an individual who had a clean cut, came from money, and had influence. So it is just disgusting. And it is sad at this
point.
PINSKY: And Tiffanie, do you agree on me, this kid will not reoffend. It is not as though he was an innocent sort of bystander. He was an active
rapist.
DAVIS-HENRY: Absolutely, Dr. Drew. 100 percent. You know, the mom is asking for us to be kind and merciful to him. What about being kind and
merciful to the victim? He was not that on that night that he raped her. And I do not know, but I just feel like -- I disagree with what your last
guest said. As parent, if this were my son, he deserves to go to jail.
PINSKY: Yes. You know, it was funny, I was thinking the same thing, Tiffanie. With those with mental health, I think sometimes you know you
have to bring the ax down when there is transgression. You do not mitigate.
DAVIS-HENRY: This is not acceptable.
PINSKY: You do not enable. You do not mitigate.
DAVIS-HENRY: No.
PINSKY: You do not allow somebody to get away with behavior that is completely unacceptable.
DAVIS-HENRY: There are consequences, Dr. Drew. There are consequences and this is one of them.
PINSKY: You must let them come. Thank you for watching. Thank you, panel. We will see you next time. Please DVR the show. You can watch any
time. Tell a friend. "Nancy Grace."
[20:00:00] END.
END
