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Dr. Drew
House of Horrors: 12 Girls Found Living with Alleged Pedophile; Pennsylvania Couple Allegedly Gave 14-Year-Old Daughter to 47-Year-Old Man as Gift; Mind of a Mass Murderer; Orlando Shooter Called 911; Alligators Have Been A Danger At Disney For Some Time Now. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired June 20, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:19] (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (voice-over): Tonight, house of horrors. Twelve little girls living with an alleged pedophile.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEN BETZ, NEIGHBOR: I knew something was not right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (voice-over): He fathered two children with the 14-year-old.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BETZ: My gut was telling me to confirm what I was thinking.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (voice-over): And it is even worse than she thought. The kids` parents may have given the oldest away to save the
family farm.
Plus, killer alligator. Did Disney know it had a deadly problem with a predator? Some say they witnessed gator dangers before this little boy was
dragged to his death. But first --
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST OF "DR. DREW" PROGRAM: Breaking news tonight. A couple in Pennsylvania allegedly gave their 14-year-old daughter to a 47-
year-old man as a gift four years ago, because he helped them out financially. The couple and the accused pedophile are under arrest. Take
a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (voice-over): Police in Pennsylvania allegedly finding 12 young girls living in a 51-year-old man`s house.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (voice-over): gIt is alleged this man, Lee Kaplan, was gifted the oldest of the girls by her own parents.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Now, Kaplan is charged with sexually assaulting at least one of the girls.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: The oldest one, the 18-year-old, conceived her first child with him when she was just 14.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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LT. TED KRIMMEL LOWER SOUTHAMPTON TOWNSHIP: Mr. Kaplan had her living there for some kind of repayment for a financial situation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEN BETZ, NEIGHBOR: These little girls, only little girls, would be outside very sporadically.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: The 12 girls inside his home ranged in age from six months to 18. The parents of this now 18-year-old who was 14 at
the time say they gifted their child to this man.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joining me, Lisa Bloom, Family Law Attorney at the Bloom Firm and legal analyst for avvo.com; Brad Cohen, Criminal Defense Attorney; Jena
Kravitz, Clinical Psychologist and Jean Casare CNN Correspondent, joining us outside the house, precisely, where these 12 girls were found. Jean,
you just spoke to the D.A., tell me the latest.
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I just got off the phone with District Attorney David Heckler, and he told me that there was no search warrant
when the detective went to the home, which is right behind me, you can see the blue door right there, on Thursday.
But it was because of the neighbor, Jen Betz who called them, saying that there were a lot of children at the home, but more than that, that there
were children in the driveway she had seen that looked very unhappy. So with that, the detective went to the front door. Lee Holden answered the
door -- Kaplan, and he started seeing children appear in the home.
He was asked in, so he was allowed to go in, and he was told by the defendant Kaplan that "These children are, at least in part, born by the
oldest daughter, who was 14 when she was gifted to me and we bore two children." The biological mother, Savilla, was right there. She agreed
with it all. I was told it appeared that they thought nothing was wrong.
PINSKY: Wow!
CASAREZ: This detective happened to be the very same detective that was at the house two years ago, when there was a chimney fire. He saw the
children there two years ago. At that time, the Defendant Kaplan said the children were there because their own home was being renovated. So right
there, red flag. Two years later, same children. And that is what prompted them to go and get an arrest warrant later that afternoon.
PINSKY: So, jean, I want to zero in on what -- the biological mother of the 14-year-old was there when the police arrived and signed off on the
fact that this guy was having children with a young teenager?
CASAREZ: That she in part had allowed their daughter to be gifted to this defendant, now defendant, and that he then helped father the two children,
one being when she was 14 and the other most recently six months ago.
PINSKY: Thanks, jean. Just a wild story. Here now, I am going to show you one of the neighbors who called the child hotline. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEN BETZ, NEIGHBOR: I just knew. There was no reason why this significantly older man, you know, any man, regardless of what they look
like, would have this amount of children all in blue dresses, never outside the house that I could, you know, looking so scared.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Jean, I want to go back to you. Any sense, did the police question why magically this gentleman, so to speak, had only accepted young
girls?
CASAREZ: The district attorney told me that as far as the other children in the home that it is not an issue with his case at this point, whether
they were his biological children or where they came from. All the children now are in Lancaster county, and they are with the children`s
advocacy center.
[19:05:015] And they are going to begin a process where they talk to these children. And it is not anything that is accusatory at all, but to hear
their stories and find out more about them. The district attorney`s office here is furthering their investigation to see if there are any more crimes
that have been committed by these three defendants.
PINSKY: Thanks, Jean. Now, speaking of crimes, Lisa, these parents allegedly, before they gave the first child away, they gave up multiple
children, searched the internet looking for the legal justification for turning -- or how to turn a child over. Is there such a thing?
LISA BLOOM, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: No. I know they want to call it gifting but let us call it what it is. If these allegations are true, they made
their daughter into a sex slave. You cannot give a 14-year-old human being to another, and if you do, you are making a slave out of that human being.
This is a 14-year-old girl who has now had two children with him, so obviously they had sexual relations at least twice, probably many more
times. According to the neighbor, these young girls were barely allowed to even leave the home.
So, let us call it what it is if these allegations are true. It was rape. And by the way, shame on the local authorities, who neighbors say they
called repeatedly and they did not do anything, and the neighbors had to call again and again before they took the lives of these girls seriously.
PINSKY: Bradford, do you agree?
BRADFORD COHEN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Listen, it is a bad situation, number one. Number two is, the defense to this is probably going to be
some kind of psychosis. I mean, these people give it up freely that they think that it was a legal issue that they can gift a little kid to this
man. I think that that is probably where it is going to go.
Not to mention, there might be some defenses as to the statements that were given, if they were in custody at the time, how did they give those
statements they were freely given. So those things are going to be the things that the defense attorney is going to attack. This is a difficult
case.
PINSKY: All right. Listen. Thank you, Bradford. Listen. On the phone, I have Gideon King. He actually knew the children`s father. Gideon, how
did you come to know the father, and what do you think of this guy?
GIDEON KING, KNOWS FATHER DANIEL STOLTZFUS: I worked on my uncle`s farm for about 10 years in that neighborhood. And Daniel, he manufactured farm
equipment for the local community, and then we purchased a manure spreader from him. Through business, that is how I got to know him. At the time he
was just --
PINSKY: And did you imaginethat he would be giving away children?
KING: No. At the time he was a normal Amish guy.
PINSKY: Is there anything about his practices as an Amish community member that would tip you off, there was anything like this going on?
KING: No, not at that time.
PINSKY: At that time.
KING: Not at that time,
PINSKY: Did something happen later?
KING: Yes, they left the Amish community in about 2003, I think, and then that is when things changed.
PINSKY: And by "changed," what do you mean?
KING: Just the way they would look at the Amish community. I mean, they would not think well of the community at all, like they would just shy away
from everybody, and they would, you know, just act strange.
PINSKY: It makes me wonder if the community members were raising issues with their practices. All right, next up, we will take you inside the
suburban house of horror, so-called. Why was everything blue in that house? You saw the blue door. Apparently everything was blue.
And still to come, 911 calls from the Orlando killer. He is talking bombs, suicide vest and more. We are back.
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[19:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (voice-over): Police on Thursday removed 12 girls, including an infant, they say were living in this house.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BETZ: The whole situation was just very unusual and felt wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (voice-over): It is alleged this man, Lee Kaplan, was gifted the oldest of the girls by her own parents who live in
Pennsylvania`s Amish countries.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: I thought they were just part of his family.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Twelve children.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Oh, my gosh.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Court documents say they knew Kaplan was having intercourse with their teenage daughter and still did not remove her
from the home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Think about that, gifting young girls to be sex slaves. 12 young girls discovered in the 51-year-old`s house. The oldest given as a gift by
her own parents as a thank you for helping them out financially, helped them save the family farm, do not you know. She was 14 at the time. Back
with Lisa, Bradford, Jena and Jean. Jena, what do we think this is?
JENA KRAVITZ, PSY.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: This is raging pedophile. And you know what, Dr. Drew? We also have not talked about this cultural
piece. This is a culture that values a patriarchal structure, and it also values traditional gender roles, abuse of women. You know, this type of
sexual abuse, molestation, inbreeding has gone on in these cultures that are more isolated for a long time, and they are transgenerational.
PINSKY: Well, I am glad you brought that up.
KRAVITZ: Yes.
PINSKY: Because on the phone, I have Ira Wagler. He is a former Amish Community member, author of, quote, "Growing Up Amish." Ira, is there
something about the Amish community that would make this OK, or is it like we were hearing from the guy that knew the father, they left the Amish
community because they took issue with this?
(LAUGHING)
IRA WAGLER, FMR. AMISH CHURCH, MEMBER, LANCASTER (via phone): Dr. Drew, thanks for having me on. No. The thing of it is, what the other lady just
said about the patriarchal society, there is some truth. Absolutely. You know, the women are certainly -- It is patriotic.
The men are the ones that make the rules and so forth, but to go to this extent is an aberration. And these people from my Amish contacts that I
touched base with about it, I said, "What is going on?"
And they said, "The guy has been gone for 10 years. He has not been a part of our culture for that long." And one of my contacts was actually -- I am
somewhat irate that the name Amish would get dragged in after all this time.
[19:15:00] INSKY: Well, Ira, let me flip it. I think there is a possibility that the Amish community kicked him out because they were
contemplating this kind of crazy activity. Is not that possible?
WAGLER: No, no, no, no, no. That was not the case at all. That was a business situation. They had claimed they found, you know, some sort of a
revelation in religion of this, I know. And the guy was involved with some type of manufacturing business, and he had -- they treated him pretty
hard.
There was some really rough stuff going on there, and I guess they sued the Amish because of what all went wrong there. I do not judge that aspect of
it because each journey you leave from a culture is different. But for them to be contemplating such a thing in 10 years, I go, "Now, come on,
that is a bit of a stretch."
PINSKY: Yes.
WAGLER: It might have been, but I do not think so because from my contact said they needed money --
PINSKY: Well, they needed money, but "OK, no problem. How about we put the kid up for auction?" Bradford, you were trying to say something.
WAGLER: No. No. I --
PINSKY: Hang on. Hang on, Ira. Hold on.
COHEN: Yes. I was just --
PINSKY: Go ahead, sir.
COHEN: The only thing that bothers me, besides the case that bothers me, but the other thing that bothers me is we are talking about the Amish
community and painting with a very broad stroke saying like this is the type of thing that could go on in Amish community.
Is not it the same type of thing when we talk about the Muslims and the Islamic religion? It is kind of a two-edged sword here. We are painting
this with a very broad brush. I think it is very dangerous to do that.
PINSKY: All right. Fair enough.
KRAVITZ: OK.
PINSKY: Hang on. I was coming to their defense saying because they are a tight community, they may have looked at this behavior and said, get these
guys out. Lisa, what?
COHEN: 100 percent, Dr. Drew.
BLOOM: Yes. And what is the defense of the local welfare authorities who are presumably not Amish, who got repeated complaints about this and who
failed to act to protect these children? What is their defense?
PINSKY: Jena, you are trying to get something in here. Go ahead.
KRAVITZ: Yes. You know, the Amish Community --
COHEN: I agree with Lisa that these police officers should have done a better job -- I agree with Lisa, the first police officer should have
investigated this way earlier, 100 percent.
PINSKY: Yes. Jena.
KRAVITZ: But, you know what? The Amish Community aside desperation and stress will push people to make totally irrational decisions. I mean the
idea of selling your child as a parent is despicable.
PINSKY: It is more than despicable.
KRAVITZ: Yes.
PINSKY: You cannot imagine it. I mean desperate is one thing, but this goes to another level. Jean, I want to go out to you. Did the neighbors
know the biological parents? I have two questions. Were they part of what the neighbors thought was pretty odd, number one. And number two, my
understanding is everything is blue in the house. Is that true and what is that all about?
CASAREZ: Right. Everything is blue. You can see there is a blue door behind me. We went to the local dollar store today. They said that always
knew he was coming with some of the young girls because the blue van would pull up.
Some of the neighbors said there was a blue light that shined into the backyard. But we talked to a lot of people today, especially for instance
the dollar store. They said that they he always brought three young girls, the oldest one and two others.
They would always look down. They would never look up. They would not engage in any type of conversation or eye contact with anybody that walked
to the store. They walked in.
He allowed them to get some treats and then they would leave. And a local person of the local restaurant said that he was very religious, that he
always quoted the bible when he came in with some of the children.
PINSKY: Perfect. Perfect, so he can dismiss all his sins.
CASAREZ: And that he was, quote, "The smartest man I have ever met."
PINSKY: He was smart. Tell me that. What does that mean? What did he mean? How do they know he was so smart?
CASAREZ: I think with all his biblical references that he gave, and he believed he was protecting these young girls from the cruel world and that
he was home-schooling them --
PINSKY: Perfect.
CASAREZ: -- because he did not want them to be engaged in rap music or anything else in our modern society.
PINSKY: That is perfect, Jena. He has isolated them from the rest of the --
COHEN: I think rap music was the least --
KRAVITZ: Exactly.
PINSKY: Yes. Rap music, I would welcome the rap music for these kids.
KRAVITZ: These kids were hostages.
PINSKY: They were hostages.
KRAVITZ: That is right.
PINSKY: It is like the guy in Cincinnati, they had the kids in the dungeon except this was shrouded in religious epithets.
KRAVITZ: It was manipulative. It was well-thought out. This man has a problem. He is a pedophile. He needs these girls around.
BLOOM: And Drew, can I just say, I do not understand why the parents are only being charged with child endangerment. They should be co-conspirators
to rape. They are giving this child to this old man to have sex and essentially saying, "This is what you have to do." I would like to see
more serious charges against these parents for what they have done.
PINSKY: Hear here. Next up, inside the mind of a mass murderer, hear what the killer told 911 as he slaughtered 49 people.
And still to come, how long have alligators been a danger at Disney. Check this out. Splash mountain, just -- this is a ride going by, and we got
some alligators, what are you going to do about that. Yes, that is from YouTube. We will get into that more after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He pledges allegiance to ISIS, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi during that 911 call, and that was
about a half hour into the rampage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RON HOPPER, FBI SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE: While, we are not releasing the audio, what I can tell you is that while the killer made these murderous
statements, he did so in a chilling, calm and deliberate manner.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: He demands that America stop bombing Syria and Iraq, and at one point the crisis negotiator asks, "What did you do?" And he says, "You
know what I did."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: There is no mention of anti-gay bias. There is no mention of his hatred or homosexuals or homosexuality at all. He
focuses simply on ISIS, and that is the message he wanted to be out there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: We are getting a terrifying look inside the mind of a mass shooter in the moments that he was terrorizing an Orlando nightclub. The FBI has
released transcript of some conversation between Omar Mateen, 911 dispatchers and a crisis negotiator.
[19:25:00] Joining me, Bryn Gingrass, CNN Correspondent in Orlando. Bryn, now, the original documents that they put out were redacted. Why did they
feel like they had to redact them?
BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they redacted the section of the 911 transcript, Drew. And the whole idea here was guidance, actually, from
the FBI and the department of justice. And, the thought is that by not mentioning the terrorist group names, it does not give credence to that
terrorist organization. And that also does not influence others.
So that is why state and local authorities here decided to leave out the terrorist organizations names in just the 911 transcripts. As far as not
even releasing audio of the actual 911 call, they said that was just out of respect for the families, Drew.
PINSKY: Brynn, what we learned anything here, was that a new information that came out as a result of these transcripts? To me, the only thing we -
- it seems like we are learning more about the depths of his radicalization and the fact the nonsense people are making about these having been an
attack or hatred of homosexuals is sort of not beg the issue entirely.
GINGRAS: Well, initially, that is still being investigated as far as what was the motive. Police today said they are still talking to his wife.
They are still talking to family members, people he corresponded with that night.
They are still trying to figure out exactly what prompted him to do this. But certainly we did learn more through these 911 transcripts, through sort
of a brief of exactly what the hostage negotiator and the killer talked about during those three calls.
And the fact that he hold up people in the bathroom, at the same time police were rescuing people. So we certainly learned more about what
unfolded that night, the timeline, but we still do not know motive at this point, Drew.
PINSKY: Thank you, Brynn. Back with Lisa, Bradford, Jena. Joining me, Steve Moore, retired Special Agent FBI. Steve, respectfully to Brynn, but
we do know what his motivation is. I mean we know for sure what his motivation is. He made it explicit in these redacted -- I guess no longer
redacted communications.
STEVE MOORE, FBI SPECIAL AGENT (RET.): Right. And every single time I have ever interviewed a mass shooter, you know what they do? They tell me
why they did it, and they tell me why they did it the whole time.
PINSKY: OK. So why this guy do it?
MOORE: This guy did it because of ISIS.
PINSKY: 100 percent. Now, I want to look at this timeline. The crisis negotiator spoke to the shooter at least three times during the attack.
The question is -- see that timeline there, what are they talking about during this exchange, and is that too long in interval or did that go on
for too long given the circumstances?
MOORE: They are doing the negotiator thing, building trust. They have a whole thing they go through, and I do not want to discuss it, but it is too
long because you are talking to him. What did we forget here?
When you have an active shooter, they are not here to negotiate for some kind of concession. An active shooter is there for a body count. And the
minute we forget that he is there for a body count and start negotiating with him, he owns this because we are doing -- we are on the wrong
playbook.
PINSKY: Now, he also made a bomb threat during the attack. He said, quote, "There is some vehicle outside that has some bombs. Just to let you
know, you are going to get it and I am going to ignite it if they try to do something stupid." Now, I want to show you what S.W.A.T. commander, who
says his officer broke protocol in hoping saving more lives. Here is what he says.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAPT. MARK CANTY, ORLANDO S.W.A.T. TEAM COMMANDER: When he starts talking about the bomb vest, kind of the average or the normal inclination of
people is once you hear someone has a bomb, you want to back up.
Our normal protocol was to back up 1,000 feet. But my officers knew that they had to stay there, even though they were in jeopardy because there was
a chance that we can get some of those people outside.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Steve, right decision?
MOORE: No. No. And I love the guy and I respect him, but here is the thing. You have two dueling protocols. The first protocol is active
shooter. People are dying right now. That was verified.
Now, you are taking the word of a shooter to say there is a bomb out there. That is not verified. So which one do you do? Do you save the lives that
you know are being lost, or do you believe him and back way off because there might be a bomb? This is not difficult.
PINSKY: Jena, the FBI said they did not put out the transcripts because they did not want to further traumatize people who are inside the club. I
am generally concerned about decisions about traumatizing.
I mean, people do not listen if you were in that club, but the public needs to know how -- they need to know who this guy is. You do not get the same
impact unless you hear it and see what happened. I mean, this guy needs to be seen for the animal that he is and people like him.
KRAVITZ: Right. You know, THERE are so many red flags, Dr. Drew, in terms of this guy; starting with, first of all, the history of oppositional
behavior. Second of all, he also grew up in a family where there was obviously reports of rage and anger, and a father with these very grandiose
delusions. Thirdly, he --
PINSKY: But he is a good boy, Jena.
[19:30:00] KRAVITZ: No.
PINSKY: He is a good boy according to dad.
KRAVITZ: Not at all.
PINSKY: He has been good since he threatened to kill his 13-grade classmates.
KRAVITZ: Yes. You are right.
PINSKY: Good boy.
KRAVITZ: But, he was rejected by his peers. He has terrible coping skills and those are some the reasons why people even get involved with these
radical groups in the first place.
PINSKY: Of course. Well, of course, they have to have what they call a cognitive opening. Lisa, is not it surprising that we are not hearing
about the wife. We know he was texting her at the same time. Is she going to be charged?
BLOOM: Well, we have to know more about her. But I just want to say, he may not have talked about the gay community, but I think we should and we
cannot take that piece out of it.
He drove two hours to a gay club where he slaughtered 49 people, primarily gay people. His father said that he was disgusted by two men kissing. I
do not think we can take that out of this just because he only talked about ISIS to the police that night.
PINSKY: All right, fair enough. Bradford?
COHEN: You know, with all due respect to the FBI guy on the panel, it is always easy to sit back and say, "This is what they should have done or
could have done, or do not negotiate." I mean, the guy says that there is a bomb outside the car. He said that he was going to strap some bombs to
some people inside.
I mean this is a very difficult situation. I would not want to be in that situation and make calls at that time. I think these guys were very
heroic. I think what they did saved a lot of lives, and think the way they did it saved a lot of lives.
MOORE: No, it did not. And, I was on the S.W.A.T. Team --
COHEN: Come on, stop being so silly. No, it did not? That is ridiculous for saying they did not save a lot of lives.
MOORE: Thank you for telling me how to be a S.W.A.T. guy, Mr. Defense attorney.
COHEN: That is ridiculous.
MOORE: Thank you for telling me how to be a S.W.A.T. guy.
COHEN: Yes, you cannot. No problem, I will tell you because I worked with a lot of FBI agents and I worked with a lot of cops and I have defended a
lot of cops.
PINSKY: Bradford --
COHEN: It is disgusting for you to say that these men did not save a lot of lives.
PINSKY: Let us at least say they were -- Steve, they were courageous.
MOORE: They were courageous men. They were courageous men. They risked their own lives and they were heroes. But the protocol they used was
incorrect and that did not save live lives.
PINSKY: All right. And you say --
COHEN: I thought you got to break protocol to save lives.
MOORE: Come on. You do not know what you are talking about. Let us just leave it at that.
PINSKY: All right. Just in, I have got video surfacing of the killer practicing in a gun range with the very weapon he used in the massacre.
And still to come. The alligator debate. Do tourist encourage the predatory behavior? This video from YouTube shows people feeding
alligators. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (voice-over): the Orlando terrorist called 911 and was described as speaking in a, quote, "Chilling, calm and deliberate
manner," moments after opening fire on a popular gay nightclub in the heart of Orlando, Florida.
The terrorist claimed credit for the massacre, saying, quote, "I am in Orlando and I did the shootings." Despite the release of the transcripts,
a lot of questions still remain, because several long phone calls with police have not been, and might never be, made public.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: All right, two things. Lisa, I totally agree with you that the fact that the gay community was targeted is something that should not be
forgotten, regardless of his motivation, number one. Number two, Jena, the fact that he was cold and calculated, dispassionate, not anxious, not even
emotional as he did this, do you agree with me that psychopathy is a possibility here.
KRAVITZ: Absolutely, Dr. Drew. He did not react. He was calm. He is collected. Normally, when someone is using a gun and shooting that many
people, you would think just that fight-or-flight adrenaline starts and they get anxious, and they get hyper. Not this guy.
PINSKY: Of course.
KRAVITZ: This guy had it.
PINSKY: He has seen people die, lots of people die. That would make people`s heart rate goes up.
KRAVITZ: Exactly.
PINSKY: This guy`s heart rate probably goes down. They get high when they are in that state. Psychopathy.
KRAVITZ: He felt in control.
PINSKY: Just in, investigators have new video of the shooter practicing with the rifle he used to kill 49 people at Pulse nightclub. He was
captured on videotape at a Florida gun range two weeks before the attack.
The staff remembered him, because he was shooting the weapon from his hip rather than his shoulder. And the gun range staff had to reprimand him for
using the weapon improperly. And when they saw his face on the news, they turned over this video to the investigators.
I am back with Lisa, Bradford, Jena, and Steve. This guy apparently had to get a psychological evaluation for the work. It is an armed security
guard. The fact that he did so is chilling.
The Miami Herald reports that the psychologist whose name appears on the report, on the document says, "She never evaluated the guy. She was not
even living and working in Florida at the time." The security company that hired him said it was a clerical error. He was evaluated by a different
psychologist. Jena, that is grotesque.
KRAVITZ: This does not happen, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: It does not happen. That is right.
KRAVITZ: That is not true.
PINSKY: Yes. It is negligence. It is grotesque negligence.
KRVITZ: It is absolutely negligent. It is harder to -- there are so many things that it is harder to do than get a gun in this country. These
people -- this psychologist did not evaluate him, and if she did, she did not ask the right questions.
PINSKY: Bradford, somebody is going to get a gun, work for a security firm. Go ahead.
COHEN: Yes. I think you guys are being easy saying it is negligent. To me if the allegations are true, it looks like fraud. I mean, they have a
report that is signed -- purportedly signed by an individual who never saw him, was never in the state. How does that happen? You do not make a
mistake and sign something mistakenly with someone else`s name. I do not know what is going on with this.
PINSKY: I do not know that she signed it, Bradford. Her name was given as having evaluated him. And that to me if, indeed, somebody evaluated him,
it is negligence that they do not have the name of the person that evaluated him. Maybe he did get an evaluation, I do not know.
COHEN: It is so unusual.
PINSKY: Yes. It is unusual.
COHEN: It is so unusual and everybody can agree that this guy is psychotic, and no one says that he is normal. His wife does not say he is
normal. No one that has interaction with him says he is normal.
[19:40:00] In fact, people that worked with him complained about that he was not normal. And you would think they would go back and look at these
records and say, "Wait a minute, let us take a step back and see what is going on with this guy." They did not even do that.
PINSKY: So as I said, this woman was not in Florida, was not practicing in Florida, probably did not sign this document. It is just saying her name
was given as the person that had evaluated this individual. Maybe nobody did, maybe somebody else did.
Now, in transcripts, the shooter says the following. Quote, "In the next few days, you are going to see more of this type of action going on."
Jenna, grandiosity, or was he seeing some chatter on line that he was a part of. What do you think?
KRAVITZ: I think he was seeking attention. You know, we have reports that he was checking his Facebook statuses and how much traction he was getting
while he was in the bar doing the shooting. This is somebody who is thriving on the attention he gets.
PINSKY: All right. That is psychological. Steve, do you know what I am getting at here? Is this guy seeing something when he is being
radicalized, he is communicating with these people? They are telling him, "Oh, yes, you are going to will get a piece of this rolling out of
activities that who knows what?
KRAVITZ: I do not for a minute believe that he was privy to anything else that was going on with ISIS. That is not how they operate. But what he
could have been doing is hoping that his actions motivated others, and that is kind of what they do. They go by getting momentum going, and I think he
was hoping that there would be copycats.
PINSKY: And, Lisa, that is one thing that concerns me. That is why I am sort of trying not to use this guy is name tonight is because it does give
-- people are ill, they could think it gives them status, and this is not about that.
BLOOM: And I applaud that, and I do not use his name, either, or any of the mass shooters` names. We can call them killers, and let us not give
them the fame and glory that they want and let us not encourage copycats, who might say, "Oh, I am going to go out in a blaze of glory and become
famous.
You are just going to be another nameless killer. Your name will be forgotten. Your life will be forgotten. I mean, that is what is going to
happen if you are a mass shooter.
PINSKY: All right. Next up, Disney warns visitors about alligators and snakes? The question is, is that too little too late? Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The death of a two-year-old boy by an alligator at Disney World is horrific. It is also rare. The only other
reported incident was 30 years ago when an 8-year-old was bitten. That does not mean alligators are rare at Disney.
Florida officials say Disney routinely has to remove alligators from its property. Alligators are indigenous to Florida with an estimated 1.3
million alligators across the tropical state. YouTube videos show guests at Disney feeding alligators. In this one, a mother records as her
children toss in popcorn.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT VUNCANNON, MARSH LANDING ADVENTURES: If you feed an alligator one time, you are going to condition that alligator whether it is one day old
or one day away from death to associate all humans with food.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Two-year-old Lane Graves will be laid to rest tomorrow. He, of course, was the Nebraska toddler who was attacked by an Alligator at a
Disney Resort. His death has prompted changes included in that temporary barriers, a new signs warning of alligators and snakes.
Back with Lisa, Bradford, and Jena. And, joining us, Jeff Corwin, Wild Animal Expert, host of "Ocean Mysteries." Now, Jeff, we have video, you
just saw there, of tourist feeding an alligators at Disney World. Is it right that just a single feeding will bring that alligator to no longer
fear and to think about humans as a source of food?
JEFF CORWIN, WILD ANIMAL EXPERT: Well, it does not take much, Drew. And once these animals associate human beings with their next meal, and they
are conditioned to be comfortable around human beings, not having that natural innate fear of human beings, that is when sort of the recipe of
disaster stirring the pot.
PINSKY: And Jeff, this their indigenous territory. I mean, this was an endangered species 20 years ago, and we have done a great job of bringing
them back and now they are at a million and a half and we are in their territory now. What should we be doing?
CORWIN: Drew, that is exactly the case. Forty years ago, this was a critically species on the brink of extinction. Because of great
conservation, they have recovered and there is millions of alligators now. And also, what you have to think of with regard to Disney World and the
park, it consists of many thousands of acres and only a small portion of that is the park.
It is surrounded by pristine ideal alligator habitat. And these animals naturally come in and out. And I think when these two assume that if there
is a body of fresh water in Florida, chances are at some point there has been an alligator in there, trying to keep an alligator out of a fresh body
of water in Florida. It is like trying to keep fleas off a dog.
PINSKY: It is impossible. That is what I understand it. They climb over everything. They get through everything. I will show a YouTube clip of
what appears to be a Disney employee trying to push off an alligator just feet away from a tourist. They are the Splash Mountain tourists on a ride.
CORWIN: Right.
PINSKY: They appeared to be oblivious. Lisa, let us talk from the legal angle. If there is a lawsuit, is that video something that is likely to
suggest liability?
BLOOM: This is a slam dunk for the family and my heart goes out to them for the lost of their little boy. From a legal standpoint, Disney, which
makes billions of dollars every year from families with little children going to their parks, they know there is going to be kids there.
There is people from out of town, who do not know anything about alligators or about Florida. It is their legal responsibility to put up barriers to
protect children. When a child gets taken by an alligator, which is a foreseeable incident, they are responsible.
And if it is happened in the past or if there have been dangers incidents in the past with alligators and children, they are looking at a massive
punitive damages finding against them. So good luck, Disney, defending this one.
PINSKY: But Bradford, to Lisa`s point, there really has not been any attacks, in spite of their being thousands of alligators around. Yes. Go
ahead.
[19:50:00] COHEN: That is kind of the issue, Dr. Drew. Listen, my heart goes out to these people. It was a horrible, horrible thing that happened.
But that is what Disney is going to rely on is the defense that, number one is, this is a natural occurrence that there is no way to prevent it.
Things of that nature.
And we did not know that this was going to happen. The last time this happened was 30 years ago. There was a bite. There were no past
incidences in the past 30 years. And all of a sudden this happens on this beach. I mean I used to take my nephew Jordan there all the time.
PINSKY: Listen, I did, too, my kids were in that water. My kids were in that water when they were little 3-year-olds.
BLOOM: Wait a second. There is no way to prevent it? You cannot put up a wall that will divide the alligators from the 2-year-olds?
PINSKY: Jeff, hang on.
BLOOM: Wait. You cannot read a sign?
PINSKY: Well, signs, yes. But Jeff, the walls are essentially ineffective, right?
CORWIN: These creatures are incredibly tenacious. They can navigate, negotiate just about any sort of blockade or fence you can put up. And
that is the big challenge. And, they often find their way into these enclosures, the smaller alligators.
In the natural world, these creatures have so much pressures against them regards to predators. Mom alligators, she is going to have 40 eggs, maybe
half will hatch out. The chances are, maybe one out of a thousand will actually become an adult. Tiny baby gators, you have been down there. You
can see how incredibly impenetrable --
PINSKY: Here is one climbing a fence.
CORWIN: There is an alligator doing what they have been doing for 60 million years.
PINSKY: Look at that.
CORWIN: Think of them as aquatic creatures. But they have been on our planet unchanged for 60 millions of years because they are a perfect design
when it comes to survival in a very hostile world.
PINSKY: And Jena, it is us that need to change. We need to change our psychology and stay hypervigilant about this, right?
KRAVITZ: Yes. We need to be vigilant. I am assuming you mean as parents.
PINSKY: As parents, I did not know before this horrible thing. And I do not blame these parents at all. My kids were in that water!
KRAVITZ: Absolutely. I have been fired up reading about social media parents who are blaming these parents.
PINSKY: Oh, please.
KRAVITZ: And I am thinking to myself, human beings are fallible. Accidents happen. These are two parents who took their family to Florida,
to Disney, to make memories and are going home to have to bury their 2- year-old.
PINSKY: Oh, my God. It is just unbelievable. It is too much.
KRAVITZ: This is a parents` worth worst nightmare.
PINSKY: Yes. Have at it, Twitter. Enjoying yourselves piling on these people who is experiencing the most painful experience the human can
experience. Next up.
CORWIN: And, Drew --
PINSKY: Go ahead.
CORWIN: They were not doing anything wrong.
PINSKY: Of course not.
CORWIN: They were literally enjoying the evening. They were following the regulations, and this tragedy has occurred. But I think it is very
important, Drew, that we do not live in fear.
In 70 years only a couple dozen people have ever been significantly injured by an alligator. You have a better chance of going down in an airplane or
getting struck by lightning than you do being attacked by an alligator.
PINSKY: However, they did think about these gators as, quote, "Harmless residential pets." They did. I will tell you that story when we come
back.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 911 OPERATOR: 911. What is your emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE CALLER: Please come to the Grand Floridian, please. Someone drowned in the Seven Seas Lagoon Lake.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 911 OPERATOR: Where? What?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE CALLER: Someone drowned at the Seven Seas Lake.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 911 OPERATOR: At the pool?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE CALLER: No. Lake.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 911 OPERATOR: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE CALLER: You said they drowned there?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 911 OPERATOR: Someone drowned there . I just stay in the pool. Please come.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PINSKY: That 911 call was made the night or 2-year-old Lane Graves was attacked by an alligator. A San Diego man vacationing at another Florida
Disney Resort last April says, his 5-year-old son was nearly attacked by two alligators. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID HIDEN, SAVED SON FROM ALLIGATOR AT DISNEY: He is kind of maybe in ankle-deep water looking around, and then all of a sudden I am looking over
his head and I see this alligator that I would estimate six feet plus or minus be lining straight for him about 15 yards back.
So, I quickly grabbed my son, grabbed him out of that shoreline and brought him up to safety. And then I looked over to the left and another alligator
caught my eye. And that alligator was maybe five to eight yards away going for him as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That father says he took a photo of one of those two alligators. He showed it to a hotel manager. And, Lisa, here is your case. Here you
go. Are you ready for your star witness?
BLOOM: That is right.
PINSKY: He was told by hotel staff that that alligator was, quote, "A harmless residential pet."
BLOOM: Right. And as a trial lawyer that is what I put on to get my punitive damages against Disney. Do not tell me that Disney, with its
billions of dollars, cannot outsmart alligators. Yes, they can climb over a four-foot high chain-link fence.
Let us make it a lot taller. Let us make it a slick wall. Let us have security. Let us have technology. Let us have buzzers. I mean, come on!
We cannot protect children from alligators. They certainly have the funds to do it. They had prior warnings and they simply failed in this
situation.
PINSKY: Jeff, is Lisa`s approach appropriate? I can understand why they felt, they were complacent because decades with no trouble.
CORWIN: Well, I mean, Just to be clear about Disney. They do have an excellent system in place for protocol for managing these things. They
have a full-time team that works 24/7. They are animal experts. When they find animals that are large, they need to be removed.
Now, clearly, an alligator is not a domesticated pet and probably every year alligators are eating domesticated pets. They eat all sorts of
things. But human beings are not the targeted prey for these animals. They primarily target aquatic animals like turtles, fish and wading birds
but every once in a while these tragedies happen. And when they do, there has got to be a learning from here. Something has to be learned from this.
PINSKY: There you go. Thank you, panel. Lisa, good luck with your case. Thank you all for watching. We appreciate it. Please DVR the show then
you can watch it anything. We appreciate if you tell a friend. We think we have something to offer here, so we do want you to come back. We will
see you next time. Our friend Nancy Grace is up next.
END
