Return to Transcripts main page
Dr. Drew
Guilty Pedophile Or Innocent Father Figure?; Five Year Old Mystery Murder Finally Solved; Orlando Shooter Bought Plane Tickets for After Shooting; Childhood Buddy Wants To Save The Former NFL Quarterback. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired June 21, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:17] (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (voice-over): Tonight, sex slave update. Girls hiding in the basement and chicken coop. The man who allegedly fathered
two kids with one of them in custody, guilty pedophile or innocent father figure?
Plus, has the case of a missing girl found murdered and thrown in a river finally been solved?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Boy, why would someone want to do what they did?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Cops say her stepfather did it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: You did not hurt her?
WENDELL NOYES, CHARGED WITH MURDERING STEPDAUGHTER: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: You were not touching her in.
NOYES: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VDEOTAPE)
Dr. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST OF "DR. DREW" SHOW: But first, forensic interviews with some of the 12 girls found living in suburban Philadelphia
with an alleged pedophile may be underway. It is believed they were held in his basement.
Some were found hiding in the chicken coop when the law moved in. It is a bizarre case, which the oldest child says that she had been gifted to this
man you are looking at here, as a payment for a debt. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (voice-over): House of horrors, 12 little girls living with an alleged pedophile.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST OF "NANCY GRACE" SHOW: This guy has 12 little girls in his home and has gotten one of them pregnant at least twice?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (voice-over): It is alleged this man, Lee Kaplan, was gifted the oldest of the girls by her own parent who live in
Pennsylvania`s Amish country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: I thought they were just part of his family.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Twelve children.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Oh, my gosh.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LISA BLOOM, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: I know they want to call it gifting, but let us call it what it is. They made her into a sex slave.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Court documents say they knew Kaplan was having intercourse with their teenage daughter and still did not remove her
from the home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENA KRAVITZ, PSY.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Desperation and stress will push people to make totally irrational decisions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLOOM: I do not understand why the parents are only being charged with child endangerment. They should be co-conspirators to rape.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KRAVITZ: It was manipulative. It was well thought out. This man has a problem. He is a pedophile. He needs these girls around.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: The youngest child in the home, just 6 months old. Lee Kaplan allegedly fathered that child with another girl who is only now 18. On the
phone, I got Jean Casarez, CNN Correspondent. Jean, what about these forensic interviews with the girls? Do we have any information?
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. We do have a little bit. And of course, the privacy of the girls is the utmost important. But as what I
was able to find out is that all of these young women were taken to Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, which is over an hour away and for your
viewers across the country, Lancaster County is the heart of Amish country in Pennsylvania.
And these girls were raised Amish. And what is happening is that they are being transported back to Bucks County, Pennsylvania during the day to have
the children`s Advocacy Center, the CAC, which is a non-profit entity, a private entity, begin the process of talking to these young girls, to find
out their story, to see what may or may not have happened to them.
At night, they go back to the safe house in Lancaster County. And you are right, it is the forensic interview through lay people who have been
educated into how to talk to these young women and also medical exams, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: And Jean, the biological mother, the very woman who so-called gifted the daughter to Lee Kaplan, you would mentioned when the police
arrived initially, that woman was there and she in fact lives with the couple, which was that adult man whose picture we have been looking at and
a 14 or 15-year-old?
CASAREZ: You are talking about Savilla. And the police confirmed with me again today that she did live there and that Kaplan, who is the defendant
that is charged with the most heinous crimes, including having relations with the 14-year-old, he is currently in business with Daniel, who is the
third defendant, who is the husband of Savilla. So all three of them, it appears as though are very close business-wise and friend-wise.
PINSKY: Jean, one last thing. That blue door we have been looking at here. My understanding is everything in the house is blue. Do we know --
what is that about? Just as more bizarre elements in this tale?
CASAREZ: Right. Blue door, blue trim, blue van, which I understand is being processed and blue light out into the backyard. Well, my research
shows me that, that blue can signify that there is a young woman that is of age to be married. And that is sort of like in an Amish culture showing
the community we have someone that can be married.
PINSKY: Does that mean 12 or 14 judging by how this young lady`s readiness was assessed?
[19:05:04] CASAREZ: Well, I asked the police, what are the ages of these young girls? And he really gave me the gamut. And this is Public Works
Director, Hoops, saying from early on to 12, 13, 14. So, they span the gamut for ages, it looks like.
PINSKY: All right, Jean, thank you for joining us. Joining me now, Mark, Eiglarsh, Criminal Defense Attorney at speaktomark.com; Sara Azari,
Criminal Defense Attorney as well and Spirit, Psychotherapist.
Now, according to a criminal complaint, Daniel Stoltzfus, which is the biological father who had gifted this 14-year-old, had in addition himself
been charged with statutory sexual assault for, quote, engaging in sexual intercourse with the complainant under the age of 18. So Mark, was Lisa
onto something last night? Is this guy in collusion on rape?
MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It depends whether he knew that by turning over his child, I cannot believe that, that occurred, but by
turning over his child to somebody as a covering for a debt, that he would have had to have known that this guy, Kaplan, was going to turn her into
his little sex slave.
PINSKY: Well, but his wife --
EIGLARSH: He knew that, that was going to happen.
PINSKY: She becomes a wife. Did not he marry her or soemting? Is that true?
EIGLARSH: Yes. And you know what, I cannot even get my head around this.
PINSKY: I cannot, either.
EIGLARSH: Listen. I have helped out people financially, and what they give me in return is a nice little thank you letter, maybe a fruit basket,
but not their offspring.
PINSKY: Occasionally, some chickens, but no, never an offspring.
EIGLARSH: Maybe.
PINSKY: Things have really come along in Florida. Sara, what could his defense be? I mean if we were to walk into that house, he welcomed law
enforcement in on day one. The mom greeted -- the mom who had gifted the child, these words barely fit in my mouth, as it pertains to this case.
The mom greeted the police and said, "You know, yes, this is my daughter. She is having these kids over here. This is her husband." What were they
thinking? What would the defense be?
SARA AZARI, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Dr. Drew, I wish you would ask Mark that question, because this whole thing is so despicable and disgusting,
but I have to --
EIGLARSH: All yours, love. All yours.
(LAUGHING)
AZARI: But you know, in terms of a defense, look, he is going to turn around and say, which I think he is already saying or someone is on his
behalf is, at least, I was taking care of these children. I was providing food for them.
I was providing home schooling. There was evidence of musical instruments. These kids had hobbies, that they were engaged. Expensive trained toys and
all sorts of things around the house.
EIGLARSH: Yuck.
AZARI: I know, I know. It even makes it worse, almost.
PINSKY: Yes.
AZARI: Because you think, where are these kids safe? Their own biological father is a pedophile. This man to whom they have been sold is a
pedophile.
PINSKY: Gifted, please. Please, Sara, gifted.
AZARI: Gifted, I am sorry. I am a defense attorney after all, it is gifted.
PINSKY: But, Spirit, I will ask you the same question.
EIGLARSH: Hey!
PINSKY: What? Hey, what? Hey?
EIGLARSH: Throw in a little alleged. If you are a defense lawyer, Sara, at least they are alleged.
PINSKY: OK. All right.
EIGLARSH: Throw in alleged. Right?
PINSKY: But Sara, the same question to you.
EIGLARSH: Sure.
PINSKY: I mean is this some sort of Folie a trois, these three people with a shared delusional system? What Sara was describing to me made me choke
even more, which is that somehow the minimum requirements for sustenance and safety is all you need to do to justifies sexually abusing children?
SPIRIT, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: You know, at the end of the day, Dr. Drew, it is so hard, because I listen to attorneys do attorney speaking. You know,
Mark and Sara, you guys both know I love you, but I look at this and go this is sex trafficking, plain and simple. Stop justifying and stop making
it nice and cozy. Forget all the gifting. Forget all the, well, maybe, possibly.
PINSKY: Allegedly.
SPIRIT: Forget allegedly. They need to be thrown under the jail.
PINSKY: Yes.
SPIRIT: Those children are there. Those are not their biological parents. I do not care if they gifted, gave, loaned, they trafficked their children
with no regard for what would happen to them.
PINSKY: Yes.
SPIRIT: And when jean said they were raised Amish, no they were not. They were raised by people who practiced some aspects of the Amish.
PINSKY: Yes.
SPIRIT: We cannot let that go. Oh, this whole story is horrible.
PINSKY: Yes, Spirit, you are absolutely right on all accounts.
EIGLARSH: Well --
PINSKY: Hang on, Mark. But less Spirit think of defending these people. Let me make it something very clear as a father of three, who dedicates
myself to ensuring that my children are well cared for. I am absolutely in favor of getting rid of non-drug offenders, non-violent drug offenders from
our prisons to make room for these types of people.
PINSKY: Fair enough.
EIGLARSH: So do not tell me I am like Sara. Sara is alone on this.
SPIRIT: Hallelujah.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Next up, a 5-year-old murder mystery, perhaps finally has been solved. The stepfather accused of drowning this little girl was in court
today. We will get the details on that.
And still to come, the Orlando shooter bought plane tickets for himself and his family. Did he think he was going to survive this and get away? Back
after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (1) (voice-over): July 26, 2011, 11-year-old Celina Cass goes missing from her home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (2) (voice-over): Family members say she was last seen on the family`s computer the night she vanished.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JANE YOUNG, SR. ASST. NEW HAMPSHIRE ATTORNEY GENERAL: We discovered the body of Salina Cass in the Connecticut River.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: The only thing I have left is pictures.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOUNG: Ruled the manner of Celina`s death to be a homicide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Cops have towed away the pick-up truck belonging to Celina`s step dad. Look at this behavior. This guy getting
down on his knees. What the heck?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: You did not hurt her?
NOYES: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: You were not touching her?
NOYES: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOUNG: At this point, no arrests have been made.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (voice-over): Until now, nearly five years later, Salina`s stepfather has been charged with her murder.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NOYES: That is why I go on camera. I had nothing to do with it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:15:00] PINSKY: Wendell Noyes arrested, charged with having murdered his 11-year-old stepdaughter. He showed his face in court today. Police
have not released a motive or what evidence led them to this arrest. Back with Mark, Sara and spirit. Now, our affiliate reporter spoke with the
step dad in 2011. And he had real trouble answering her questions. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: So, in the morning, Louisa leaves for work at Lads and Ladybugs, right?
NOYES: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: And she thinks Celina is just sleeping in because it is a summer morning, right? And then how do you realized that
she is gone?
NOYES: When I got up that morning, there was -- um, usually she sleeps on the couch.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: You did not hurt her?
NOYES: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: you were not touching her?
NOYES: No. Oh!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And take a look at this video. Here he is outside his home in front of television crews. He gets on his knees and crawls around. Soon
after this, he checked himself into a psychiatric hospital. In 2003, he was arrested for breaking into his ex-girlfriend`s house and threatening
her.
A judge ruled then he was unfit to stand trial. Committed again to a psychiatric hospital. At that time, diagnosis, paranoid, schizophrenia.
Now, we uncovered this story when it first happened and we uncovered some other disturbing things about the suspect. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Take a look at his Facebook page. We believe this is his account. It looks and matches to all the info. Certainly looks to be him. His
interests include pages like meet hot girls today. He has 150 friends. Almost every single one of them is a female with a provocative sexy photo
in their Facebook.
And in fact, many of them appeared to be in the sex industry. He posts comments on their walls. It does not appear he has hired a attorney. Do
not he have some explaining to do?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Now, we found out in court today, the police actually went and arrested him in a state psychiatric hospital. Mark, this guy is
chronically incarcerated for an advanced, severe, psychiatric illness. He lives in a state hospital.
What are we trying to do here? Are we going to put him through the system, so we can send him back to a state hospital? Do you understand what I am
saying? I mean this guy is in big trouble. I do not understand what the end game is here.
EIGLARSH: OK. Two different issues. First of all, you got to punish someone who has committed murder, allegedly. So, let us start with his
state of mind now. They are going to have to evaluate him and see if he is competent to assist his attorneys. It is a very low standard.
If he is not. If he is cuckoo for cocoa puffs, still and he is very sick, then they will keep him there until he becomes well if it all. Then the
second issue is what was his state of mind when the offense was allegedly committed.
If they can prove it was him, the argument is, well, he was not in his right frame of mind. He did not know right from wrong and that could cause
him to be acquitted and then go to a hospital.
PINSKY: Or, he gets convicted. And then, Sara, what happens?
EIGLARSH: Yes.
PINSKY: It is now the state is -- you have a psychiatric patient now in the --
EIGLARSH: Prison.
AZARI: Right.
PINSKY: Well, end up in the prison system, or in the state -- or can we place --
EIGLARSH: Drew, they are packed with people who are not 100 percent righted in head.
AZARI: Right.
EIGLARSH: If he knew right from wrong, that is where he goes. He goes to prison.
AZARI: Exactly. But if he did not know right from wrong, then he would be institutionalize for a long, long time.
PINSKY: But he already is. He already is institutionalized. That is my point.
AZARI: Right. But the bigger issue for me is that we are talking about his guilt and his culpability. And I have to be skeptical as a criminal
defense attorney much like Mark about this delay, this five-year delay from the time that --
PINSKY: What is your hunch? What do you think they are on to that made them do this? What kind of thing?
AZARI: You know, I would like to believe that this is not because he is mentally not there. I think that stigmatizes people with mental illnesses.
PINSKY: No, no, no. I mean, what would they suddenly have uncovered the five years after the fact they went, "Oh, we got him."
AZARI: Exactly. Is it a confession by him? Because if it is, it is kind of like the Brendan Dassey situation in "Making a Murder," right? The guy
is completely slow.
PINSKY: Well, schizophrenics are not necessarily slow, but he might have not been -- Spirit help me out with this.
SPIRIT: Yes, you know, so, my question is a little different, Dr. Drew, because what I am wondering is when was he diagnosed with the paranoid
schizophrenia?
AZARI: Right.
SPIRIT: Was this something that recently happened, because they said it was years and years ago? Then what he is showing in all of these videos,
this is not examples of paranoid schizophrenia. We are not seeing delusions.
That looks more like malingering and some faking to me, being a little histrionic if you will for the cameras. So when was he diagnosed? And
then the other part of that, just because he has a chronic mental health issue does not mean that he is absolved from the law and does not mean that
he does not understand right from wrong.
AZARI: That is true.
PINSKY: Yes, I agree.
SPIRIT: There is too much here. We cannot just label him, he has this issue, and so somehow, then he did not know what he was doing.
[19:20:00] PINSKY: I agree.
SPIRIT: No way.
PINSKY: Mark, I like seeing your eyes light up with Spirit`s little theory here, Mark. So what she is saying is --
EIGLARSH: Well --
PINSKY: Wait. Let me flush it out for you. Because what she is saying is --
EIGLARSH: She said something great.
PINSKY: Well, schizophrenia comes on in young adulthood. So if he was diagnosed in young adulthood, he was diagnosed after a murder, could this
entire thing be a roux?
EIGLARSH: Right. So let us play out that theory, because I liked it. Spirit, listen I liked it. So here is my thought. The fact that they did
not arrest him for approximately five years tends to show that perhaps he took great lengths to cover up, assuming he did this, whatever his evil
deeds were.
That would tend to show that he knew right from wrong. If he was not in his right frame of mind, he killed this girl, you would think that he would
leave evidence everywhere. He would have gotten rid of evidence, but the fact it took so long suggests what Spirit was suggesting.
PINSKY: All right. Here is what I want to do. I am going to bring someone in after the break, who is a former friend of the suspect. He says
he knows that, that guy killed Celina and confronted him about it. He is here with me. He will settle -- he will help us sort this argument out.
And later, it seems the Orlando shooter was planning to get out of town. He bought plane tickets for himself and his family. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: 11-year-old Celina Cass was found dead in a river after she vanished from her very own bedroom.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LOUISIA CASS, CELINA CASS` MOTHER: I called his secretary every week. I talk to her. I want her to come and tell me what happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: So while we have the stepfather who we say is not a suspect at this point, but surely is a creepy guy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Mr. Noyes, I have a felony complaint before me that alleges that you did commit the offense of second-degree murder.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LOUISIA CASS: Why? Why would someone want to do what they did? She did not deserve it. She did not do anything to anyone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: New tonight, Wendell Noyes, charged with drowning his 11-year-old stepdaughter. She disappeared almost five years ago. Back with Mark,
Sara, and spirit. And we are joined on the phone by Dan Cass. He is a relative of Celina`s. He has also known the stepfather, Wendell, for
years. Dan, thanks for joining us.
DAN CASS, FMR. FRIEND OF WENDELL NOYES: Yes, sir, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: What would you imagine to be the step dad`s motive?
DAN CASS: I could not tell you. I just think he is a sick man.
PINSKY: And have you seen Wendell since Celina`s death? And did you confront him?
DAN CASS: Yes, sir. Numerous times.
PINSKY: I am sorry? Say that again.
DAN CASS: I said numerous times. I have seen him and confronted him. And I have told him that I wish you would admit what you have done.
PINSKY : And what does he say?
DAN CASS: He said he did not do it. He says he does not have to talk to me and the whole time that I am talking to him, his cheeks puff in and out.
He definitely does not like to see me when he sees me, because he knows I am going to say something to him.
PINSKY: What is it that makes you so certain? Is it that he is so disconnected from reality? Did you have evidence? I mean, what was it?
DAN CASS: Right after it happened, I had a dream that I was in the water when Celina was drowning in the water. And one night, before I woke up,
his face is what I saw. And when I was 17 years old, a friend of mine -- he picked up a hitchhiking, a friend of mine and myself and he rode around
and drinking beer and he picked up an underage girl that was in that car with him and he received oral sex from her. And my friend and I got out of
the vehicle.
PINSKY: And again these -- we cannot refute or confirm what Dan Cass is saying. This is not HLN`s independent corroboration. Dan, did Wendell go
to Celina`s memorial service?
DAN CASS: As far as I know he did, yes.
PINSKY: He did go?
DAN CASS: Yes.
PINSKY: And was his behavior appropriate there?
DAN CASS: I was not there presently, Dr. Drew. But I was told while he was there that he went over and took her pictures and put them face down.
PINSKY: The last thing, Dan is we have been trying to figure out, has he been psychiatrically ill his entire adult life or are these symptoms
something new? When he was a young man were there questions or concern about his psychiatric stability?
DAN CASS: I could not tell you that. To be honest with you, I know there has been some things that he has done in the past before with Celina that
would lead me to think that he is not a well man.
PINSKY : Can you give me an example of that?
DAN CASS: Well, for instance, he was trying to pull an electrical box off of an apartment building and other things I would not like to mention,
because it is just bad.
PINSKY: OK. All right, Dan, thank you so much for helping us out here. Sara, you are shaking your head.
AZARI: Yes. I am sorry. None of this establishes a motive why he would kill this girl. He was a sick man, so he did it? I mean, he received oral
sex from a young girl in the car many, many, years ago when they are all really young?
PINSKY: All right. You do not see anything specific to this case. But Spirit --
EIGLARSH: So my response --
PINSKY: Your response, Mark.
EIGLARSH: Wait, wait, hold on.
PINSKY: Yes.
EIGLARSH: The counter point, in a murder case, contrary to what you see on cheesy television shows, they do not have to prove motive. Especially with
guys like this, assuming he is guilty, you can never know why exactly he did it. So motive is not the problem. For me, the problem is --
AZARI: I believe you, but the problem is, we do not even know where is the evidence? What is the evidence?
EIGLARSH: That is what I was going to say.
AZARI: Do we know what the evidence is?
EIGLARSH: No, no. That is what I was going to say. No, I do not.
AZARI: Right.
EIGLARSH: So I am going to give him the presumption of innocence. The court can crucify him because that is what they always do.
AZARI: Right. Exactly.
EIGLARSH: Just by him being nutty. You know, that is what they do. I am with you. But, we do not have the evidence here.
PINSKY: But, Spirit, there is this question about him being disturbed for a long time. There is at least a little evidence that the psychiatric
problem is not new.
[19:30:00] SPIRIT: Yes, but see, Dr. Drew, there is a difference between the psychiatric problem is not new and its paranoid schizophrenia.
PINSKY: I know. I know. I understand.
SPIRIT: I mean, let us think about -- we have not heard that he has had anybody watching him, anybody following him. There is nothing.
PINSKY: But to fair. Maybe the pulling the electrical box off -- you are right, I am filling in with my clinical knowledge, which is sometimes
people would pull down electrical material, because people are beaming thoughts or they are monitoring --
SPIRIT: Possibly.
PINSKY: But, possibly. We do not know that either. But, I want to show you what the stepdad told the reporter back in 2011, when she asked him
about the night Celina went missing. Take a look.
(BEGIN VODEOP CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: I want to ask you about Celina.
NOYES: I do not know. I went to bed with Louisia that night.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: You went to bed with Louisia that night.
NOYES: Yes and that was it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: OK.
NOYES: So we left the door for somebody else to come. And we left the door unlocked.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Front door.
NOYES: But Kevin was the last one up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And Sara, why second-degree murder? Why not first-degree?
AZARI: Well, because it appears there is no evidence of premeditation. I mean we don`t know what the evidence is, obviously. But, there is probably
no evidence of planning or premeditation or he would have been charged with first degree murder.
So, it is something less than first degree murder, but not completely lacking in malice and not kind of a passion-type of killing, which would
mean manslaughter. But again, you know, five years passing from the time the girl is dead, it`s a long time. You know, like both Mark and I are
questioning, what is the evidence? Is it physical? Is it still intact? Is it witnesses coming forward? Is it a confession directly from him?
PINSKY: We will have to find out.
But next up, the Orlando killer went to that Pulse nightclub, then left that was before he then returned for the massacre. What was he doing?
And still to come, a Johnny Manziel update. What is the troubled NFL quarterback up to now? Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: The shooter bought three plane tickets for himself, for his wife and for his small child just one day before he
murdered all those dozens of people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Makes me think he did at least think he could get away with it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: What do you think?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: This is his back up. If they get out of there, then they have the airline tickets, get my family and get out of dodge.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: He was a complicated, narcissistic mass murderer. His wife had constructive knowledge that something very, very
bad was going to happen. You know? She`s pleading with her husband. She knows.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Her telling the police that she didn`t know what he was going to do. Why plead for him when he`s walking out the door
at night. A 2-hour drive away, what`s he doing, going duck hunting?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So did that Orlando nightclub shooter think he would get away with this crime? Tonight, we know he was making some plans for the future. Let
me go live to CNN Correspondent, Ed Lavandera, in Orlando. Ed, we now know he bought three plane tickets. Where to?
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it was the day before the attacks here at the nightclub in Orlando, Drew. And it was three tickets in all
for him, himself, his wife and his child. And the flights were for the next day after the attack to fly to California. Why or what the reasoning
was behind that is something that investigators are still trying to figure out, we are told.
PINSKY: And, my understanding is he had been spotted in that club earlier the very same day, then he left for a couple hours, and came back and did
his thing. Is that accurate?
LAVANDERA: That is true. We know the investigators using Mateen`s cell phone and surveillance video from inside the club. What they have been
trying to do is piece together that timeline from Saturday night into early Sunday morning.
They had discovered Mateen was inside the Pulse nightclub, paid the entrance fee to get in and had the wristband. They suspect that perhaps he
was checking out the security in the situation.
Then he left for about two hours and then came back around 2:00 a.m. and began the rampage. So investigators are still trying to figure out what he
was doing during those two hours after he left the club, but he had been there earlier in the evening.
PINSKY: Thank you, Ed. I am back with Mark, Sara and Spirit. And, joining the panel is Steve Moore, retired Special Agent FBI. Let`s talk
about the shooter buying these plane tickets. Steve, did he think that he was going to survive this? It was not a suicide mission?
STEVE MOORE, SPECIAL AGENT, FBO, (RET.): Apparently he did. Because what we have learned from all these active shooters throughout the whole time of
their problems is that they go in and they intend to die.
And usually, when police first confront them or anybody confronts them with armed resistance, they kill themselves because their desire is not to have
anybody else have that enjoyment, have that control. So the fact that he didn`t kill himself should have given us a tip off that likely he was
trying to do something else. He had not committed to dying at that point.
PINSKY: And Spirit, do you think with him buying the plane tickets and the in and out of the club, is there -- clearly, you know, we live in a time
when people who are vulnerable are the ones that get converted into these horrible, horrible acts. Do you think that he was manic during this
episode?
SPIRIT: You know, it`s possible because it`s not even logical what it is that he is thinking, Dr. Drew. And, you know, hearing that he bought plane
tickets even to go to California, it was not like he thought let me flee the country.
So it says that he even really have good regard for what the consequences of the actions would be and would he be safe or was he just thinking I am
going to pick up and move across the country to somewhere else and somehow that will absolve me of any responsibility for what I have done the night
before. It is not logical.
[19:40:00] PINSKY: It`s not logical. And he was spotted at the nightclub, I guess he had gone in -- Steve, he had gone in and he bought
the ticket and, you know, put the wristband on, maybe checking out the security, and then came back two hours later. Do you think he was casing
the club?
MOORE: Absolutely. It would be unusual if he did not do that. Almost always in these active shooters, in San Bernardino, we saw the same thing.
They show up. They case the place. They are not just looking at security. They are looking at body count.
Are there enough people to justify me dying tonight or should I come back tomorrow. I have one shooter who did not case the place the morning of.
Came in and found the wrong victims there. It did not stop him, but it was the wrong people. So this is a standard practice we are used to.
PINSKY: And Ed, do we have evidence --
EIGLARSH: Drew.
PINSKY: Hang on. One quick second, Mark. Ed, any evidence of what he was doing during those two hours?
LAVANDERA: No, not much. I mean, obviously, he lives two hours away. Earlier in the evening, on Saturday is when his wife says he was last seen
at his house. In fact, we have learned that according to law enforcement telling CNN today, that when Mateen left his house, he sort of head driving
to Orlando that he left angry.
That his wife told investigators she tried to stop him. That he packed his bag full of guns and started driving, making the two-hour drive up here to
Orlando. It is the period he was gone, came to the club, left and came back that investigators are trying to piece together.
PINSKY: Mark, what do you want to say there?
EIGLARSH: Drew, I am hoping somebody from the panel can help with one set of facts that are so troubling to me amongst all these troubling facts.
PINSKY: Yes, are you going to say one?
EIGLARSH: Two weeks prior to the shooting -- yes, there are so many, but this one I cannot get my head around. Two weeks before the shooting, he
donates blood. OK? I do not understand what that is about.
And what makes it even more chilling is that his blood, which would have been OK for 45 days could have been used to help some of the people that he
killed. My question is, why would he donate blood? What is that about? Somebody help me.
PINSKY: Steve, I will go to you, but I would guess -- two things, business as usual. Maybe he was at an office that happened to be giving blood.
Whatever, it was a customary thing wherever he is. But the other thing is, as Spirit said earlier, trying to make sense of what this guy is doing is
inadvisable. He may not have been in a normal mind set.
AZARI: And if he is that big of a narcissist, maybe he donated blood, so his own blood would be in the bank in case he got shot.
PINSKY: Interesting. Steve, what do you suspect?
MOORE: I want to see the timeline. Again, I think you are right, the psychiatrist might have a better line on that than I do. But, I think one
of the things, we never know when they have made the final decision.
When they decide, pardon the expression, to pull the trigger. When they get to that point, that is when they start acting different. He may not at
that point, and I do not know, I have not seen the time line. But he may not at that point have made the decision.
PINSKY: That begs the question of whether or not authorities missed opportunities to arrest this guy before he killed 49 people. We are going
to get in to that, and the wife. I want to dig into her story after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAVANDERA: After blasting his way into the Pulse nightclub and unleashing the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history, Omar Mateen called 911.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: "There was some vehicle outside that has bombs, just to let you know. I am going to ignite it if they do anything
stupid."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LAVENDERA: There were no explosives, but investigators say after Mateen retreated inside the Pulse nightclub bathroom, officers on the scene
handled the situation like a hostage scenario. Investigator say, after the initial shooting rampage started around 2:00 a.m., no other shots were
fired until Mateen was killed shortly after 5:00 a.m.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: I think there is this misconception that we did not do anything for three hours. And I am just trying to clarify, that is
absolutely not true.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: The gunman`s wife said when he left their home Saturday night, he was angry and he was carrying a bag of guns. She claims she begged him not
to leave, but did not know what he was planning.
Back with Mark, Sara, spirIt and Steve. Spirit, she had to know he was up to something. He leaves angry with a bag of guns, why did not this woman
call the police?
SPIRIT: Even if it was just to say I am afraid he might hurt himself, Dr. Drew, none of it makes sense unless she was trying to cover for him or she
was afraid for herself.
PINSKY: Anybody on the panel, is there any have other response on that?
EIGLARSH: Objection. Objection.
PINSKY: All right, Mr. Counselor. Please.
AZARI: Overruled.
SPIRIT: I do not care. I do not care.
EIGLARSH: Hear me out here. Hold on. If she knew anything and did not report it, to hell with her, but hold on one second. She came out and said
that all these sources are wrong. That everyone is saying she drove him to case out the Pulse nightclub, that she drove him to the ammunition store.
All that is wrong. And I was not in the room with the investigators, so I do not know what she told them. Until the reports come out and I read what
she said, I do not know what she told them. That could be manufactured that she could not have had knowledge.
SPIRIT: What does it have to do with, he left the house with the bag of guns, angry?
PINSKY: Are you saying that --
EIGLARSH: Hold on one second.
AZARI: But wait a second.
EIGLARSH: Hold on a second. How do we know she said that? How do we know she saw him leave the house with a bag -- that could be manufactured. That
could be BS!
PINSKY: Steve. Let me go to the FBI. Hang on. Let me go to the investigator.
MOORE: Here is the deal.
PINSKY: Go ahead.
MOORE: I understand that it is hard -- yes, I know. But you can let me finish. I am in this one. So I would say that if she said anything like
that, then we have to plan on what we are going to do with that information. She might not have said it, but we are allowed to at least
conjecture about what she said.
[19:50:07] And one thing that nobody has denied that she said is, "I tried to talk him out of it." Talk him out of what? You cannot talk somebody
out of something that you do not know about. Well, I tried to talk him out of whatever he was thinking about. No, you knew he had guns. What are you
trying to talk him out?
PINSKY: Mark wants more detail. He wants more evidence. And we are learning --
MOORE: I agree. I understand.
PINSKY: And we are all there. Listen, but we are also learning about his social media footprint. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: We are highly confident that this killer was radicalized and at least in some part through the internet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Investigators say the shooter searched for jihadist propaganda online, including ISIS beheading videos and videos of
Anwar al-Awlaki. And he had multiple Facebook accounts. He was posting and checking Facebook during the attack.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Now, Setve, this is really an important topic to me because every FBI, whether former or present officer I speak to, tells me that there just
is not enough resources to go after every lead like this. But the NSA used to have algorithms where they could monitor stuff like this and we have
taken that away. Is that true?
MOORE: Yes.
PINSKY: How foolish is that?
MOORE: I would have to refer you to the congress of the United States and some of the major newspapers in the United States.
PINSKY: Is it true, Steve, that we are just going to have more attacks until we do something like reinstituting electronic algorithms that monitor
this? Otherwise, we are going to have to hire what, 100,000 more FBI agents?
MOORE: Easy. Here is the deal. There are going to be more attempts. The question is how bad do we want to stop them?
PINSKY: Really bad!
MOORE: OK. Then you need to get the NSA involved. Otherwise, we can walk around and try to be really nice guys. Imagine if one football team took
the field with five players because they did not want to offend the other team? Who is going to win, who is going to lose? Let us play hardball.
PINSKY: All right. I thought that was true. We are going to leave it.
Up Next, Johnny Manziel`s friend to the rescue. Can a childhood buddy save the former NFL quarterback? We got a big story, right after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNNY MANZIEL, NFL QUARTERBACK PLAYER: It is a dream come true to be where I am now and getting a chance to start my first NFL game.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: We are partying with Johnny Manziel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: For the ninth time in 22 days, here is a post about Johnny Manziel partying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COY WIRE, FORMER NFLPLAYER/CNN SPORTS ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Champagne bottle, rolling with entourages, girls. He is going to club even after
being told to straighten up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Manziel is in trouble again. He is accused of having beaten up his ex-girlfriend.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNEELISE GOETZ, ATTORNEY: He was given everything on like a silver platter, and this is what he does?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RYAN LEAF, PROGRAM AMBASSADOR FOR TRANSCEND RECOVERY COMMUNITY: Somebody has to find their own bottom. Either you accept it and you get the help or
you die.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: NFL Rookie Jimmy Landes wants to help his childhood friend Johnny Manziel. The two grew up together in Texas. They played on the same
little league team. Landes tells ESPN, quote, "When I got drafted I said I get my signing bonus. I am going to go find Johnny, get a plane ticket and
go find him. Just bring him back down to the good old Johnny that we all know."
Mark, you are shaking your head no. I mean, what is he planning? Hang on. No way you can take a resistant adult to treatment is kidnapping, right?
EIGLARSH: Well, of course. First of all, I think it is a loving gesture. I think his heart is in the right place.
PINSKY: Yes.
EIGLARSH: But hold on. Do you hear that sound? Do you hear it? I cannot tell you what the sound is. I can tell you what it is not. It is not
Johnny Manziel asking for help.
PINSKY: I know.
EIGLARSH: This money I think is as wasted as Johnny Manziel is right now.
PINSKY: Right. And Sara, a lot of people do not understand that to try to treat or try to help a person that does not want help, it is almost always
a waste of time. But go ahead, Sara.
AZARI: I do not even know if this kid knows what he is walking into in terms of the magnitude of Manziel`s wreckage.
PINSKY: No. No.
AZARI: Because he is got $100,000 in his pocket in signing bonus, that is like one of the lawyers that has to be hired for Manziel. I mean you have
got his defense in the assault case. You have got the wreckage at the mansion in L.A.
You have got the Mercedes he crashed. You have got his treatment center if he agrees to go to one. I mean $100,000 is a joke. I mean, I love this
kid. I think he is such a sweet kid for wanting to help his friend, but I do not think it is going to cut it.
PINSKY: So Spirit, how do we help someone understand that -- you will excuse me -- the spirit of his intent is wonderful and it is profoundly
giving and, you know, the guy came to me, I would give him some suggestions how he might be able to get the guy into a certain program. And I got some
ideas where he should go, but not to have expectation that this is going to be it, we are going to fix it.
SPIRIT: Yes. I would not give him even that, Dr. Drew. I would just say, listen, you are going to take him to the hospital. The hospital cannot
keep him because he is an adult and he is going to get back out. He do better taking that $100,000 and try to go lobby congress, so that we can
start talking about involuntarily committing folks that we are really concerned about.
PINSKY: Oh, Spirit, you are singing my tune. I did not know you were in that camp.
SPIRIT: Oh, yes.
PINSKY: I have always said, if we could hold people that really needed to be held. Their brain is not working right.
SPIRIT: Yes.
PINSKY: Just hold them for a little while, then wake up and say thank you, not why did you hold me against my will. Sara, tell me more --
SPIRIT: There we go.
PINSKY: Yes. Tell me more about these other expenses that he has, he is looking at here. What are the magnitude of legal problems he has to clean
up before he can even get treatment?
AZARI: Right. He has got the $40,000 in damages for trashing this house that he rented in Los Angeles in the Hollywood Hills. He has got $90,000
for totaling a Mercedes that he was -- I think he had borrowed the Mercedes here in Los Angeles as well. And then he has got the assault charges he is
facing, so I am sure he has got costs of his defense, his attorney`s fees. And then he has got -- I do not know. What does he not have?
PINSKY: OK. Fair enough. And plus treatment is expensive. Listen, I wish them the best. I hope he has some success in reaching this man.
Sometimes people get through. You never know. Thank you all for watching. Of course, DVR this show. You can watch any time. Please tell a friend.
We will see you next time. Nancy Grace up next.
END
