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Dr. Drew
Carlin Williams, The Inmate Who Claims He Is Prince`s Biological Son Will Not Get A Dime; Young Woman Vanishes: Husband And Wife Charged With Her Kidnapping; A Man Admits To Cutting Up His Dead Girlfriend And Throwing Her Parts In The Garbage, And Wants Custody Of Their Child
Aired June 22, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:17] (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (voice-over): Breaking news. We now know who is not getting any of Prince`s millions. It is this guy, an inmate who
claimed to be his biological son.
And did a love triangle end in murder? A married man on trial for kidnapping a waitress. They had an affair. She may have been pregnant.
Who else is accused? His wife. Sliced to pieces. Thrown in the trash. This man says he dismembered his ex-girlfriend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDA JENSEN, ADDIE`S MOTHER: He admitted to cutting up our daughter`s body and --
DAVID JENSEN: And throwing it in the garbage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Now he wants her child and is fighting her grandparents for custody from behind bars.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: And first, this breaking news in the death of Prince, bad news from one of the people who say they were related to the music icon and one
acclaimed a piece -- on their piece of his fortune. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: A scramble for Prince`s millions, a parade of people, including a violent criminal claimed to be related to the singer. Without a will, it
is all up to a judge.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hundreds of people have come forward now trying to claim they are somehow related to Prince. And there
is one individual that claims he is Prince`s biological son.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: He is an aspiring rapper, so-called, with a rap sheet that is long and really problematic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Carlin Williams, that is this guy. He is 39 years old. He is in federal prison on a firearm charge. He is due to get out in 2020. His rap
sheet dates back to 2002. It includes trafficking crack, holding his then- girlfriend captive, threatening to kill her, attacking a woman -- Oh, great, with a hot curling iron, auto theft, resisting arrest, probation
violation. You got to throw that in for good measure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Carlin Williams, the inmate who claims he is Prince`s biological son will not get a dime. To explain why, let us go to Dax Holt in the TMZ
newsroom. Dax, give me the latest.
DAX HOLT, TMZ REPORTER: Well, our sources deeply connected with this case said that the DNA tests have come back and the tests are saying 0.0 percent
chance that Carlin is Prince`s son. And if you remember, Carlin was saying that his mother met prince back in 1976 at a Kansas City hotel, and that is
where he was conceived. Well, clearly that was not the case.
PINSKY: Anything from that camp? Are they claiming a 0.0 probability? I am just curious.
(LAUGHING)
HOLT: I do not think so. And you remember, there is actually one other person that is waiting for the DNA results, and that would be Taz Walker.
It is unclear right now what the status of her case is, though.
PINSKY: Dax, please standby. There are a couple of stories I want to talk to you about, but I want to introduce my guests. Joining us, AnneElise
Goetz, Attorney; Leo Terrell, Attorney and Erica America, Psychotherapist. AnneElise, is DNA -- obviously, it is the gold standard, but is it always
allowed in the cases like this?
ANNEELISE GOETZ, ATTORNEY: Well, it is the gold standard and it is one more reason why the legal process is slow, right? Because we want to
figure out who is out there, the heirs that may exist. And this is going to be a lengthy, lengthy process, because as we just said, there are other
people that are out there saying, "Hi, hi, I could be Prince`s child as well." But if you have a DNA test come back at 0.0, come on, you are not
getting anything more than that in the court.
PINSKY: Allright. Dax, there is another story I want you to tell us about. Judith hill was the young woman, who was on the plane the time --
the episode when prince lost consciousness, they had an emergency landing. He was given Narcan in the emergency room. What does she report?
HOLT: Yes. It is interesting, but Judith is now talking and she said, look, she was on the plane that day. She basically saved his life that
day. She says that she was in the middle of a conversation with Prince when his eyes fixed, is what she said. And he started to nod off.
She said, you know, "If it was any other time and I was not looking at him, I would have just thought he kind of like fell asleep." But his eyes
fixing really freaked her out. She knew there was a medical emergency. She alerted them, told them to take the plane down and that is where the
ambulance met them on the tarmac and he was given that safe shot.
PINSKY: Is not she reported as having said that Prince knew there were something not right with his health and he was trying to struggle with it
or some such thing?
HOLT: Yes. I mean, I think Prince had known for a little while that there were some issues. But, it is one thing to think it and it is another to
take the action. And I think he was taking the action but it may have just been too late.
PINSKY: Or with the wrong people giving him the wrong advice. I am ready to blame the caretakers, I am telling you. Now, she also was with
strangely, with strangely Michael Jackson in the last days of his life.
[19:05:00] HOLT: Yes. This is a really eerie connection. But if you remember, Judith Hill, her name is pretty famous because she was in "This
Is It" with Michael Jackson. She was rehearsing to go on tour with him.
They were doing a pretty famous duet in the movie, "You Just Cannot Stop Loving You." And she was rehearsing with him literally days before he died
as well. So I do not know if that is a weird omen for her, but I got to think --
PINSKY: I am not interested in flying anywhere with her. But listen, Dax, when you go back to look at these stories, I want you to know this. To
have somebody, their eyes freeze and their sensorium altered before they become unconscious, that is very peculiar. That is not the typical
reaction to opiates and opioids.
It makes me wonder if he also had some sort of seizure phenomenon, and that could be related to the God knows what are the medication he was taking.
Again, we only know about the fentanyl, but they do not give us the report of the other toxicologies. They do not do that in Minnesota, apparently.
But please keep an eye on that, because that is not somebody just passing out from opioid use.
HOLT: And I feel like you have been saying that from the beginning. You are always saying there must be something else.
PINSKY: Something else.
HOLT: Yes.
PINSKY: That is what is called a partial complex seizure. And why he would have that, that is separate from opioids and opiates. But thanks,
Dax. We appreciate that.
HOLT: Thank you.
PINSKY: Now, I want to get back to the DNA testing in Prince. The judge has sealed the DNA test of other people claiming to be Prince`s heirs.
That means they will not be made public. Why is that, Leo?
LEO TERRELL, ATTORNEY: Well, I will tell you right now. It is a privacy issue, some medical issue. It is a medical issue and medical records have
to be kept private unless they waive their privacy. And right now the judge is honoring the privacy issue on this particular issue. That is why.
PINSKY: And Leo, you know, I feel very connected to you, and I get a sense, my friend, that when I put that 0.0 probability up there with the
DNA testing, you were ready to take issue with that. Was that just me being paranoid or were you really having an issue with that?
TERRELL: No. I have to go along with AnneElise. I mean, it is a gold standard DNA testing. It is a deterrent for those people who are going to
make a claim. Unless you try to challenge the procedure and how the DNA evidence was taken --
PINSKY: Right.
TERRELL: -- that is the only argument.
PINSKY: Chain of command and that sort of thing.
TERRELL: That is right.
PINSKY: All right. Erica, you were trying to say something about the episode on the plane. Please, go ahead.
ERICA AMERICA, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Yes. Sure. No, I was going to -- I mean, I have two things to say. I was going to say with her, I do not think
anything is a coincidence. So I think that this young lady was very talented and also very open and connected and understanding, and that is
why she was around these superstars, who trusted her.
So I think -- I am just saying that has something to do with it. I read a lot of articles about her connection with Prince, and she did not really
specify whether it was romantic or not, but she did say that they loved each other very deeply and he was very private.
PINSKY: Yes.
AMERICA: And the more and more I read about Prince, I really respect him a lot. So there is that. Back to the other thing is, the DNA test, that is
the underbelly of humanity, OK? You win the lottery, "Oh, you are my cousin. You are my uncle." No matter what, people will come out of the
woodwork and they have to have a test for that, because 9 out of 10 times, it is not going to be true.
PINSKY: I would argue the underbellies, it is not the DNA, it is money. That is really underbelly comes out.
AMERICA: Yes. I am thinking the underbelly is greed and lust and all those things like that.
PINSKY: And DNA helps us parse these things out a little bit.
Next up, a young woman vanishes. Husband and wife charged with her kidnapping. It is a love triangle that appears, perhaps, to have ended in
murder.
And still to come, a man admits to cutting up his dead girlfriend and throwing her parts in the garbage. Now, he wants custody of their child.
Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (voice-over): December 18, 2013. Heather Elvis, a 20-year-old waitress, vanishes. The prime suspect, this man, Sidney
Moorer. Prosecutor say the two were having an affair, but it ended when Sidney`s wife found out.
The couple is accused of baiting heather, luring her out of her apartment, taking her against her will, then wiping all the evidence away, including
the body. Heather`s remains have never been found.
Now, bombshell testimony. Heather`s coworkers believe she may have been pregnant. The day she disappeared, Sidney was caught on camera buying a
pregnancy test.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Explosive testimony today. Salacious text messages between Sidney Moorer and Heather Elvis read aloud in court. They reveal that Sidney`s
wife knew about the affair and she apparently had a boyfriend of her own. Back with AnneElise, Leo, Erica and joining us, Jason Mattera correspondent
for "Crime Watch Daily." Jason, bring us up to speed on what has been going on in court.
JASON MATTERA, CORRESPONDENT, CRIME WATCH DAILY: Yes, so Heather Elvis, the 20-year-old waitress, who worked at the tilted kilt, she was having an
affair with another employee at the tilted kilt, and that was Sidney Moorer, and he was the maintenance man there.
They both were having that affair that abruptly ended when the wife found out about the affair. On December 18th, Heather`s vehicle is spotted and
it is abandoned. No sign of Heather. On that same night, she goes missing.
You have Sidney Moorer placing a phone call from the payphone to heather. He initially denies he ever called heather, but then when police show him a
surveillance video of him making the phone call, he says, "Oh, yes, I actually did call her."
Fast-forward, then two months later, both Sidney and his wife are charged with murder, kidnapping and indecent exposure. Later, the murder charges
and the indecent exposure charges are dropped.
And then we have the testimony yesterday from Heather`s coworkers, the other waitresses, who said that heather may have been pregnant. She was
gaining weight, she took a pregnancy test.
The result came back as an error. And they said she would also show up to work with bruises. And every time they asked her about these bruises, she
would have a different story as how they came about.
[19:15:00] PINSKY: Jason, indecent exposure? What the heck?
MATTERA: Indecent exposure. Yes. I mean --
PINSKY: Anybody have any theories about that? AnneElise, WHAT that would have been?
GOETZ: You know, I looked into it, Dr. Drew, and I was not able to figure out the evidence they were relying on for that charge of indecent exposure.
I do not really have any answer for that one. As it related that he was avoiding -- you heard Jason say that he was potentially lying to the
officers.
PINSKY: Yes.
GOETZ: -- and that resulted in certain other charges --
PINSKY: Not potentially -- yes, he was lying to the officers. I mean, he said he did not call her and then there is footage of him calling. And
they also have these text messages between Heather and Sidney. The jury heard them today. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (voice re-enactment for Heather): "I understand this cannot go on anymore. I just want to know that your wife is not going
to show up at my job, because I lost hours today because they sent me home after she kept calling.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (voice re-enactment for sidney): She does not care about you, it is fine. She was just mad at me for lying. Wants me to
take some tests to make sure I did not catch anything from you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: All right, Leo. There is a lot of evidence there, is there not? She knew about the affair, she had a boyfriend. She is angry. It looks
like she is the murderer.
TERRELL: Right. Right. I am waiting for evidence of kidnapping, because I can see why they brought the murder charge. I have not heard anything.
I have not heard anything. And you know what, Dr. Drew? If this case was so powerful, they would have kept the murder charge.
But you know what? Jurors like to see a body, and there is no body. But where is evidence of kidnapping? I have not heard any evidence yet. Maybe
I dropped the gun. Where is the evidence of kidnapping, because I have not heard any.
PINSKY: And, Jason, you actually interviewed Heather`s roommate. What does she tell you?
MATTERA: Yes. Heather`s roommate told "Crime Watch Daily" that the night she went missing, Heather had called her up and said that she got a call
from Sidney, and Sidney said that he wanted to get back together with her, that he had left his wife. And she calls her roommate, hysterical crying,
not knowing how to proceed.
She also said that Sidney`s wife would send heather threatening text messages saying, "You better leave my husband alone or else." And she also
would send him photos of Sidney and her having sex.
PINSKY: Oh God!
MATTERA: So that may be where the indecent exposure charges came in.
TERRELL: What about the evidence of kidnapping? I have not heard the evidence for kidnapping. I am still waiting.
PINSKY: And Erica, I know you are shaking your head there. I mean, I get the wife potentially being angry enough to murder her, but what about the
kidnapping?
GOETZ: Absolutely. This kind of thing is all common sense, and motives are like, yes, they absolutely did it. But in a court of law, and I am not
even a lawyer, it is like, "Where is the body, where is the body?"
Think of that a Rubba Case years ago. Because there was no body, it was so almost obvious that he did it. Think of O.J. Things do not always come
all the way through. But I am wondering, what is the evidence that hey have at the scene of the car that made them think --
TERRELL: That is what I said.
GOETZ: Yes. That made them even think that they did something? So I am not quite sure about that.
PINSKY: Jason, do you have any answers for us?
MATTERA: Well, police say that they see images from other surveillance footage of what looks like Sidney`s truck approaching the boat landing.
PINSKY: Leo is not impressed.
MATTERA: They are going to have to convince a jury. But listen, Sidney was lying to authorities right away when they questioned him on that.
Usually innocent people do not lie to authorities under any circumstances - -
TERRELL: Oh, come on. Come on, crime watch. Where is the evidence of kidnapping? No abduction, no video of the two suspects picking up the
young girl? There is no evidence so far.
MATTERA: Listen. Listen. Leo, you have to calm down, bring it down. It is up to the prosecutor to convince a jury here. I am being asked what
they are presenting in court.
TERRELL: Are you convinced? Are you convinced?
MATTERA: I am convinced that foul play happened.
TERRELL: No kidnapping.
MATTERA: I do not know what happened.
TERRELL: No kidnapping?
MATTERA: I am convinced foul play happened. This woman just left and decided to what? Jump in the river?
PINSKY: Hey, I got some potential witnesses I want to talk to. And next up, I have heather`s former co-coworker. She says Sidney -- well, she
calls his creepy, she believes Heather is gone. I also have Heather`s father. That man is here. He has been in court.
And in addition, later to come. Terrible case, grisly case of an ex- boyfriend fighting for custody of his little girl after admitting he chopped up the mother. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO RE-ENACTMENT)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (voice re-enactment): Text message from Sidney`s phone to Heather`s phone:
Sidney: I cannot do it anymore. It is not right.
Heather: Yes, OK.
Sidney: What did you want to talk about?
Heather: I think you are a little obsessed with me.
Sidney: Nah, it was a bore.
Heather: You skank (EXPLATIVE WORD) needs to leave me alone. Stop stalking me, you crazy (EXPLATIVE WORD).
(END AUDIO RE-ENACTMENT)
PINSKY: Heather Elvis missing for two years. Police believe Sidney Moorer and his wife kidnapped her, disposed of the evidence, perhaps got rid of
her body. Back with AnneElise, Leo, Erica and Jason. Erica, those text messages are very problematic.
AMERICA: Yes, absolutely. I am sorry, I missed what they said. It was from Sidney to the missing girl. What was it saying?
PINSKY: Just amount of aggression and chaos.
AMERICA: Yes. So what --
PINSKY: Go ahead.
AMERICA: These are my thoughts. My thoughts are, OK, an average person gets cheated on, they do not go and kill or kidnap the person, OK? But if
you have really strong emotional disorders, a personality disorder, a mental illness, you are psychotic.
And then the person maybe gets pregnant on top of that, that hits really home, because it is like, this person is going to be involved in my life
for the rest of -- I am saying she still should have walked away, but maybe that was enough for the two of them to think that they had to do this,
which is absolutely crazy.
PINSKY: And to be fair, we do not know their previous history. For all we know that the wife may have had previous aggression or violence, we just do
not know. On the phone, I have Heather`s father, Terry Elvis. Terry, I am so sorry for your loss. This is just a terrible tragedy.
TERRY ELVIS, HEATHER ELVIS` FATHER: Thank you, Dr. Drew, I appreciate the phone call and the chance to get Heather`s story out again today.
PINSKY: What did you think? What was your first thought when she showed up missing? Did you know about these two characters?
ELVIS: We had never met them before. I did not know their names, did not know they existed.
PINSKY: Did you have any theory about what might have happened to your daughter when she was missing?
ELVIS: Panic set in for us right away.
PINSKY: Yes.
ELVIS: And honestly, we just went into panic mode. We were looking, frankly, for anything we could find that would tell us where she is at or
what had happened. No theories.
PINSKY: And when you were in court today, what was Sidney`s behavior? What has it been like?
ELVIS: Well, he was -- you know, he is off to our right on the other side. Do not really get a clear view and honestly do not look a whole lot that
way.
PINSKY: Yes.
ELVIS: It is not the easiest thing to relive every day. And he is not the focus of my attention. We are still trying to find our daughter every day.
PINSKY: AnneElise, you have a question?
GOETZ: Terry, I read in some of the reports that the defense is attacking the prosecution or, really, attacking the police and law enforcement, that
they did not properly investigate the crime. And I am curious whether you felt like it was a thorough investigation.
Do you still feel like, as you mentioned, you want to see your daughter again. You are looking for your daughter. Do you feel like every stone
has been turned over, or does any part of you think this was a knee jerk, these are the most likely candidates?
ELVIS: I am confident that the Horry County Police Department and Sheriff`s department, sled, which is our South Carolina Law Enforcement
Division, I am confident that they have done their job. I am confident that they have the right people in custody.
PINSKY: And Terry --
ELVIS: And I am confident in our judicial system.
PINSKY: Are you confident you will get a conviction here?
ELVIS: I am sorry?
PINSKY: Are you confident as well that you will get a conviction here?
ELVIS: I think justice will be done. I think that the guilty will be found guilty.
PINSKY: Terry, I am going to let you go. I am just so sorry, and I hope and pray for justice for your daughter, I really do.
ELVIS: I would like to add one small thing. I was listening to the first part of your show and I know a few of them did not understand where the
kidnapping charges, probably we are going to get to that.
But if you look at the South Carolina code of law, it differs from state to state. It is not necessarily a conventional kidnapping where you take
somebody and you look for a ransom or anything. If you take a peek into it and look into the code of laws, I think you will understand what is going
on.
PINSKY: Thank you, Terry. I also have on the phone Jodi Davenport. She worked with Heather. She was also called upon to testify this week. Jodi,
thanks for joining us. Did you know these two were involved in a relationship?
JODI DAVENPORT, WORKED WITH HEATHER ELVIS AND DEFENDANT: Yes, sir.
PINSKY: And what do you think? What do you think happened?
DAVENPORT: Honestly, everybody went straight to the conclusion that he and his wife did something to her.
PINSKY: Is there anything we should know about the wife? Does she have a previous history of violence or anything you are aware of?
DAVENPORT: We did witness some harassment by her, text messages, threats, pictures.
PINSKY: This has got to be so disturbing to all of you there. I just -- and then having to relive this all upon as a witness. Let me ask you this.
Do you think she was pregnant? Do you think that was a possibility as well?
DAVENPORT: I do.
PINSKY: Did she talk to you about this relationship, ever?
DAVENPORT: Yes.
PINSKY: What did she tell you?
DAVENPORT: She knew that it was wrong, but she cared about him a lot.
PINSKY: Do you think he manipulated her into this relationship?
DAVENPORT: I think it was a sort of mutual thing.
PINSKY: All right. Jodi, thank you so much. I want to go to Leo. Leo, you heard what the father said about the kidnapping codes in that state.
Does that make sense to you?
TERRELL: Well, he was talking about the ransom note, but we are talking about evidence of abduction. And this is what I have not heard yet, Dr.
Drew, and my heart goes out to the father. But even the last witness, Jodi, I was hoping that somebody might ask did the young girl ever convey
or relay any elements of abuse, physical abuse, by this guy.
PINSKY: I heard that she came to work with bruises and a different story. Jodi, are you still there? Do we still have Jodi on the line, control
room?
DAVENPORT: I am. I am here.
[19:30:00] PINSKY: What do you say to that?
DAVENPORT: She did come to work with a black eye.
TERRELL: But did she ever tell you that he was the cause of that black eye? Did she ever use his name as the cause?
PINSKY: And Leo, I am going to jump in front of that question. Just say, how many victims of domestic violence pop out with that right away. They
are always hiding and feeling ashamed about it, right?
DAVENPORT: Exactly.
TERRELL: Nicole Brown Simpson did not.
PINSKY: I did not hear about it. It was pretty well hidden for a long time.
TERRELL: There are a lot of videotapes and audiotapes. I am aware of that.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: I am just saying, Leo.
TERRELL: OK.
PINSKY: But go ahead, Jodi, answer the question.
DFAVENPORT: She did come in with a black eye and she gave multiple stories about how that happened and they all seemed very bogus. She never admitted
to me or anyone that I know of how she got that black eye.
PINSKY: Actually, Erica, I am going to have you back me up on this, will you? I got to fight for my friend Leo on the fact that domestic violence
victims are not typically going to step forward, even in close confidence.
AMERICA: Absolutely. We always talk about this, Dr. Drew about sexual abuse is the same thing. People are saying the, "Why did not they say it
right after?" Because they are traumatized. I mean, it is really, really difficult to talk about something like this. So, there is a lot of shame
involved and it takes sometimes many years before they can come out and talk about it.
PINSKY: And Jason, so much of this case is based on what these coworkers are saying. Is there anything you want to ask?
MATTERA: Well, I am still curious about how Tammy, Sidney`s wife, fits into all this. Did she ever show up at the restaurant? I know she was
sending threatening messages, but how scared was Heather of Sidney`s wife?
PINSKY: Jodi.
DAVENPORT: She looked like a ghost.
PINSKY: When the woman would show up?
DAVENPORT: She never showed up that I know of, but when she was getting those harassing phone calls and those text messages, she was horrified.
PINSKY: All right, guys, we are going to leave this one here.
Next up, I got what may be one of the most outrageous custody cases I have heard of. This man admits to slicing up his girlfriend`s body. Now, he
wants custody of his little girl. We are going to give you the details, after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (voice-over): This beautiful young mother Addie Jensen was murdered, the body cut up, the parts discarded. Now, the man
who says he hacked her to pieces wants custody of their daughter Chloe, and he is fighting the child`s grandparents for her from behind bars.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDA JENSEN, ADDIE`S MOTHER: He admitted to cutting up our daughter`s body and --
DAVID JENSEN: And throwing it in the garbage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (voice-over): Dow says he disposed Addie`s body parts, but insists Addie committed suicide. The Jensen say they do not
want alleged killer raising their granddaughter. But Dow, as the biological parent, has the law on his side.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: The body of 25-year-old Addie Jensen has not been found. Her ex- boyfriend, Joshua Dow is in prison serving eight years for interfering with a dead body and a first-degree controlled substance crime. Back with
AnneElise, Leo, Erica and Jason. And Jason, there is even more. Tell us.
MATTERA: Yes. The key here is the body still has not been found. Joshua Dow`s brother told police that he was forced at gunpoint to bring the body
with Joshua to a warehouse.
PINSKY: By whom? Who held a gun to his head?
MATTERA: Leo. Leo -- by Joshua Dow.
PINSKY: So Joshua -- this father, this guy held a gun to his own brother`s head?
MATTERA: Yes. He has a gun to his own brother`s head.
PINSKY: Come on.
MATTERA: That is what he tells police.
PINSKY: He is the father of the year. Father of the year, this guy.
MATTERA: It gets better. He brings the body to a warehouse, then Joshua Dow`s brother tells police where the body is. They get to the warehouse.
There is no body there. But it does smell, according to police, like there was a decomposing body there at some point. A witness says the day before
Joshua Dow was spotted at the warehouse, and he was moving boxes into a car and also cleaning off tarps.
PINSKY: Nothing suspicious about that. Erica, you are having a reaction. Go ahead.
AMERICA: Yes, absolutely. Details Schmetails, OK? I guess it is like the therapist and the thinker versus the lawyers, but the guy admitted to
dismembering the girl, OK? Cutting her up.
PINSKY: You need anything else?
AMERICA: Whether it is true or not -
PINSKY: You need anything more than that?
AMERICA: Should he be -- do you need any more to think that this guy should be the father of children?
PINSKY: Leo, my main question is weighing.
TERRELL: I am so disappointed. Thank goodness you got me on this show. Shame on all of you. Let me be as clear as possible. This man should not
lose his parental rights at all.
PINSKY: What?
AMERICA: What?
MATTERA: You are crazy.
TERRELL: No, you guys are crazy.
MATTERA: You are absolutely crazy.
TERRELL: No. You are wrong. You are wrong.
MATTERA: At face value -- at face value --
PINSKY: Time out.
MATTERA: -- he admits to dismembering the mother of his daughter.
TERRELL: He is name calling. He is name calling.
PINSKY: Fair enough. Hold on, hold on.
TERRELL: Can I get my legal reason why?
PINSKY: Let us hear what Leo says.
TERRELL: Can I get my legal reason why?
PINSKY: Go, please.
TERRELL: Do you remember a case called the O.J. Simpson case.
PINSKY: No.
TERRELL: Justin and Sidney? When O.J. was acquitted, he still kept custody. There is no evidence of this man to be unfit to take care of the
kid. Now, there are a lot of incarcerated --
MATTERA: He dismembered the mother of his daughter.
TERRELL: May I finish? May I finish?
MATTERA: That is evidence right there.
TERRELL: It was after the fact. It was after the fact. So he did not kill his wife.
MATTERA: You do not know that. You do not know that.
GOETZ: It does not matter.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Hold on. Whoa! Whoa!
AMERICA: That is ridiculous. I am sorry.
PINSKY: Erica, hold off, hold off. Leo --
TERRELL: Crime Watch, shame on you.
PINSKY: Hold on.
TERRELL: Shame on you, big time.
MATTERA: Shame on you for having no common sense.
TERRELL: Big shame. You need to be lawyer. You are not a lawyer. Shame on him.
PINSKY: Now, common sense sometimes --
MATTERA: I am not a lawyer, but I got common sense. Clearly, the legal degree you have --
TERRELL: I am sorry, Dr. Drew, I am only telling the truth.
PINSKY: Sometimes the law does not make common sense, I get that. But Leo, let us go through the details.
TERRELL: Yes, sir.
PINSKY: OK. Cut somebody up.
TERRELL: After they are dead.
PINSKY: No bueno.
TERRELL: After they are dead.
PINSKY: No bueno.
TERRELL: He does not know that. He does not know that.
PINSKY: I am just saying, common sense says not the guy you want to raise any kid, but OK, the law does not support me on that.
[19:40:00] TERRELL: That is right.
PINSKY: Number two, carrying a weapon and threatening to kill his own brother. It does not bother you?
TERELL: It does not show us fitness to take care of his son --
PINSKY: I will give you an extra witness on that one. But we have had that testimony yet.
TERRELL: Drew, you lose in court.
PINSKY: You do not know that. Number three, substance abuse. We heard he has a substance issue. I do not see any evidence. If the guy were
recovering, you would hear all about that and him doing the treatment in prison.
TERRELL: Of all the people on this show, you should know, Dr. Drew, there are a lot of people with substance abuse and incarcerated, they do not lose
their parental rights. You know that better than anyone on this program. And for you to take a flip-flop position, I am disappointed. And I have a
man crush on you.
PINSKY: You can be disappointed as long as you do not shame on me.
TERRELL: I am almost ready to.
PINSKY: Hold on. Hold on. Erica, go ahead. Help me out here.
AMERICA: OK. Am I going crazy here, or did the guy plead guilty to chopping up the girl?
TERRELL: Yes, he did.
AMERICA: He pleaded guilty.
PINSKY: Yes.
AMERICA: OK, so why does he not lose his parental rights for that, for pleading guilty to chopping up his wife?
PINSKY: Well, let us ask Leo, why not? Why not?
TERRELL: He should. Let me be as clear as possible. He did not kill his girlfriend.
MATTERA: You do not know that. You do not know that.
TERRELL: Damn it! Where is the evidence that he did?
MATTERA: How do you know that? Leo, how do you know he did not kill the girl?
PINSKY: Wait a minute. I have been so focused on my boyfriend, I Forgot I had another attorney here. AnneElis, help me out here. AnneElise, please
help me out. Get me out of this one.
TERRELL: Tell the truth, AnneElise.
GOETZ: I need people to stop saying that there is no way claim for him to lose his parental rights. That is absolutely wrong. I think this is a
great case for an involuntary termination of parental right.
PINSKY: Why?
GOETZ: I think that just because he did not murder -- if you murder someone --
TERRELL: How about O.J. Simpson?
GOETZ: Then you automatically lose them.
TERRELL: What about O.J. Simpson?
GOETZ: Because he was not convicted of murder.
TERRELL: Thank you, thank you. Case closed. Case closed.
MATTERA: You keep bringing him back. Stick to this case right here.
PINSKY: One at a time.
TERRELL: I did won my case.
MATTERA: Leo keeps saying he did not murder. We have no idea.
GOETZ: I know, you have not won your case.
PINSKY: One at a time! I am going to turn all your mics off. I have to control this. Jason.
MATTERA: OK. Leo keeps saying he did not murder his ex. We have no idea. All we are taking is we are taking this guy at his face value saying he did
not do that. First, he could have very well did it.
Then if we put that aside, say he did not, he chopped up the mother of his daughter and scattered her about Minneapolis in garbage bins. Then he took
his brother by gunpoint and said, "You got to help me dispose of this body," and you think he is fit to be a parent? You are going to talk about
shame? My goodness, look in the mirror.
PINSKY: Hold on. Hold on.
TERRELL: Did O.J. killed two people?
PINSKY: He was not convicted.
TERRELL: Yes.
PINSKY: Not convicted.
TERRELL: He still kept his custody.
PINSKY: Hold on. I want to show you -- hold on. Can I have time to please show the grandparents? Can we show this tape? We do not have time
for this, anybody? Control room? Can I go back to that? Yes. Let me show you the grandparents who are fit parents and they are fighting to keep
this child. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDA JENSEN: We will not let this define her. For us right now, it is about raising a loving, kind, giving and faithful child.
DAVID JENSEN: I do not know how I can hand our granddaughter over to the man that cut up and threw her mother away. And how can you let him have
parenting time for what he did?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Cruel, Leo. You are cruel, man.
TERRELL: Why are protective services taking the kid away from the parent You know why, Dr. Drew? Chopping up the body is horrible, but it does not
--
GOETZ: Because he is in jail!
(CROSSTALK)
TERRELL: Why are they yelling at me? Why are they yelling at me?
GOETZ: Because he is in jail.
PINSKY: Hold on. Hold on, body parts have never been found. If and when they are, what would that mean to this case? We are back. Do not go away.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDA JENSEN: I think about Chloe not growing up with her mother, and when I think about how being a mother was the most important thing to Addie, it
brought her so much joy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (voice-over): Early on the Jensens worried about Addie`s relationship with Chloe`s dad, Josh Dow.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDA JENSEN: He just had a tough situation where he wanted to love the person that your daughter loved and yet you can see it was really a rocky
relationship.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (voice-over): And then they received a call from police.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDA JENSEN: They just said, we have reason to believe that your daughter is no longer alive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (voice-over): Dow`s brother had contacted police.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID JENSEN: He told them that Addie was dead, that she was shot, and that he had helped Joshua move the body.
CINDA JENSEN: He admitted to cutting up our daughter is body and --
DAVID JENSEN: And throwing her in the garbage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (voice-over): To this day, Addie`s body has not been found. Dow wants joint custody of Chloe.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Addie Jensen`s parents want to adopt their granddaughter, Chloe, but her biological father, Joshua Dow refuses to give up his parental
rights. Back with AnneElise, Leo, Erica and Jason.
Now, according to court documents, Joshua admitted that he dismembered Addie and told police, quote, "I took her, put the parts and put them in
the garbage in Minneapolis in different garbage cans." Jason, Joshua`s brother said they put Addie`s body in a warehouse. What more can you tell
us?
MATTERA: Not only that, he forced his brother at gunpoint to remove the blood-splattered couch from the apartment, also to help him paint the walls
of the apartment to cover up the blood. We have people on this segment who is saying, "Wow, you know, he just dismembered his wife. He did not go
ahead and kill her."
I am sorry, I think it is pretty clear he killed his ex-girlfriend and then he tried to get rid of the body, at least admitted to getting rid of the
body. There is no way on God`s green earth, he should ever have custody of Chloe, again.
[19:50:05] PINSKY: Now, Jason, Joshua Dow told police -- here is his defense, he told police Addie was distraught after finding out he was
seeing other women. He said that Addie then killed herself in front of him, believing that doing so she would be able to frame him for her death.
Erica? Erica, she had a child. She had a child. Unless this woman had a long weird psychiatric history, that is not the behavior -- that is not a
behavior I have ever seen.
AMERICA: No. I want to go as far as to say this. Even if he did not do it, making up that she killed herself -- even if she is still alive, and he
made up this whole thing, he is not fit to be a parent, Dr. Drew. This is unhinged thinking. This is enough to say he is not fit to be a parent.
Whether he did it or not, this is just too much. I am sorry. It is so clear, psychologically --
PINSKY: Well, not so clear to our friend, Leo. Not so clear. But I am working back to him. AnneElise, first, though. Let us say they find the
body and there is some evidence that pins the murder on Josh, is that the end of the custody conversation?
GOETZ: So, if they have evidence and they charge him and they convict him with actually committing the murder, then yes. It is specifically in the
statute that the parent -- the grandparents can exercise their right for involuntary termination of his parental rights.
But, Dr. Drew, what I want to emphasize and what I do not think is not being accurately portrayed here, is that is not the only way to lose your
parental rights. And I think these grandparents have an excellent case, because juvenile court, the purpose of juvenile court is to look out for
best interest of the child.
And when they are doing that, they are going to look at the totality of the circumstances. They are going to look at the fact that the brother alleged
that this guy was threatening him with gunpoint. They are going to look at the fact that this guy has admitted to the drug use in his home.
PINSKY: AnneElise.
GOETZ: They are going to look at the fact that this guy has admitted to cutting up an individual. It is the totality of all of it. He does not
have to kill someone to lose those rights.
PINSKY: Yet, AnneElise, your adversary is sitting, as I look at him, right nearby. Leo, have at it. What are you going to tell AnneElise when she
comes to those child custody hearings?
TERRELL: You know what, first of all, Jason -- I like the Dr. Drew show, but let us just call it vigilante justice for Jason to sit there and say
all that about he is guilty without any evidence is amazing. But for AnneElise to say --
MATTERA: I have evidence. A lot of circumstantial evidence.
TERRELL: I was quiet. May I finish?
MATTERA: You mentioned me, dude.
TERRELL: May I finish.
MATTERA: You mentioned me. I do not know if we should let you finish. You keep embarrassing yourself.
PINSKY: Jason, I got to make that decision. We are going to let him finish. Go ahead.
TERRELL: Thank you. For AnneElise, to make the assumption, the totality of the circumstances, they might as well take every inmate incarcerated
today, take their parental rights away. What I am saying right now is everyone they are focusing on the dismemberment.
I am sitting here saying as of the evidence we talked about on this show, there is not enough evidence to take away his parental rights. And for
those who are making that argument, they are wrong.
PINSKY: So Leo.
TERRELL: Absolutely wrong.
PINSKY: Leo, so wielding a gun, maybe even have a proper permits for those guns --
TERRELL: OK.
PINSKY: He has maybe other violent history. AnneElise is going to build a case. Right, AnneElise?
GOETZ: I mean, I have a lot of evidence to build it. And the fact of the matter is, it does not have to be murder, Leo. It does not.
TERRELL: I am not saying that.
GOETZ: People lose their parental rights when they commit bad acts, when they put their child in unsafe positions. And when looking at this
situation and when you are looking at what this guy did, he is putting his child in an unsafe position and furthermore --
TERRELL: I am still waiting for evidence where he has done harm to the kid.
MATTERA: Is he mentally fit to raise a child? Is he mentally fit?
PINSKY: That is where I am going to get at.
MATTERA: Yes or no. Is he mentally fit?
PINSKY: When we come back for the Jason Mattera show, I want to answer that question. So we are going to take a little break. I will be right
back.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID JENSEN: They just had a feeling that something was wrong. We made flyers, called the morgues, called the hospitals. And so, essentially, we
are searching for five days trying to figure out where she was.
CINDA JENSEN: He said we have reason to believe your daughter is no longer alive. And I just screamed. I fell to the floor.
DAVID JENSEN: And told that Addie was dead and she was shot.
CINDA JENSEN: He admitted to cutting up our daughter is body --
DAVID JENSEN: And throwing her in the garbage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That was David and Cinda Jensen, can you imagine. Their daughter, Addie, went missing, last November. Addie`s boyfriend, Joshua Dow, says
she killed herself to frame him, but he admits he dismembered her body.
Joshua, now in prison and he is fighting the Jensens for joint custody of the baby girl he had with Addie. Erica, I want you to stay with me. I
want to address Jason`s question before the break. You ask, Jason about fitness, right? Is this guy fit for parenting? Was that your question?
MATTERA: That was my question, is he fit for parenting?
PINSKY: And let me just say. There is clearly on option for high quality parenting with these grandparents. I wish people would use less, Leo, I am
sorry, my friend, the letter of the law and more common sense when applies to creating an environment to raise our next generation.
We have enough problems with young people today. If you give them environments that are moderately suboptimal, you are increasing the
probability of trouble. Why not, why not give her a fighting chance?
Let the dad be a part of it, by all means, but these grandparents, I am all for the dad being a part. Maybe he can create a stable environment or
maybe he is in recovery. I just think we ought to use common sense. Erica, you agree with me on this?
AMERICA: absolutely. The other thing I wanted to say is we always talk about these mass shootings. And we say, what was the evidence beforehand?
Did not people see lots of weird things? The thing is it is all inconclusive. And that is exactly what is going on here. This is the kind
of guy that could end up doing something much worse down the road.
PINSKY: Or not and to defend my friend, Leo. I am willing to give this guy a benefit of the doubt. But in the meantime, let us use common sense.
Nancy Grace, up next.
[20:00:00] END.
END
