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Dr. Drew
Updates on Terror Attack at Istanbul`s Airport; Authorities Point Finger at ISIS; New Developments in Mother Who Killed Her Daughters; Man Who Donated Sperm for Free; 4-Month-Old Baby With Cocaine In Her System; A Television Personality And The Intern He Married Are Making News. Aired 7- 8p ET
Aired June 29, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:17] (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST OF "DR. DREW" PROGRAM: Now, we begin with breaking news regarding the terror attack at Istanbul`s airport. The
airport is open for business as the investigation continues. Elise Labott, CNN global affairs correspondent joining us from Washington with an update.
Elise, my first question is, has anyone claimed responsibility for these deaths of 41 people?
ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Drew, they have not, but what U.S. and Turkish officials have kind of pointed the finger at
ISIS, at the Islamic State saying that this attack bears all the hallmarks of an is attack, the coordination of it. You had three suicide bombers
using both weapons and suicide vests.
And also some of the other groups that Turkey is also battling terrorist groups, such as Kurdish separatists, the PKK. This is not really their
M.O. Typically, they target security and military installations. So, you heard the Turkish Prime Minister and today, CIA Director John Brennan
really pointing the finger at ISIS, but nobody has claimed responsibility.
ISIS generally does not claim responsibility for attacks in turkey. Nobody really knows why. Maybe it is because they want to keep them on alert or
maybe they have other allies in the country that they do not want to alienate. But, the CIA Director John Brennan said it is not really
surprising that if it is ISIS that they have not claimed responsibility.
PINSKY: Any warnings from the state department about travel to Turkey or any other countries?
LABOTT: Well, it is interesting. There has been a longstanding travel warning for Turkey about the potential for terrorist attacks throughout the
country. But just this week, just two days ago, on Monday, the state department issued a new travel warning for Turkey, warning Americans not to
travel to south eastern Turkey.
That is, of course, along the Syrian border and a lot of militants are known to be in that area. So that area very concerning. There is a
general travel warning out for Turkey and also for Europe. You saw these attacks in Brussels and in Paris over the last year.
And U.S. officials have warned the summer travel season, that busy tourist season could be a real target for ISIS that goes after what they call soft
targets where a lot of tourists are staying and hanging out.
So they put this general warning out for Americans traveling to Europe to be very careful. Do not go to places where there are large crowds. Be
careful of your surroundings. Just take extra steps for your security.
PINSKY: Thank you, Elise. I appreciate that information. Now, I am going to switch gears to some developments in a story about a mother who killed
her own daughters.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED 911 FEMALE DISPATCHER: Ford Bend 911. Do you need police, fire or EMS?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE CALLER: I promise you. Please forgive me. I am sorry. Please!
UNIDENTIFIED 911 FEMALE DISPATCHER: Hello?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE CALLER: Do not shoot. Please! I am sorry! Don`t!
UNIDENTIFIED 911 FEMAKE DISPATCHER: Hello?
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED 911 FEMALE DISPATCHER: Fort Bend 911. Do you need police, fire or EMS?
(NOISE AT THE BACKGROUND)
UNIDENTIFIED 911 FEMALE DISPATCHER: Hello?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE CALLER: It is not OK.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (voice-over): Desperate cries from two daughters who are about to die at the hands of their own mother Christy.
Chilling 911 calls from 17-year-old Madison Sheats and her 22-year-old sister Taylor revealed what happened in the seconds before they were shot
to death.
Police say they were murdered at a family meeting. Christy shot them there and then chased down one of the girls who staggered outside. She returned
to the house at one point to reload.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE CALLER: Apparently, she do not have any more bullets. She is going inside the house now. Hopefully, it is not getting any more
bullets, because it looks like she is going to look for more bullets. She is coming back again. Apparently, she has bullets now. Oh! She shot her
again. She shot her again.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (voice-over): Investigators reveal that Christy and her husband, who may not have been a target, were fighting over marital
issues.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: We have another part of the 911 call placed by the neighbor who had to witness these shootings. Now, it has been edited for time. Here we
go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED 911 FEMALE DISPATCHER: It is two people laying in the street?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE CALLER: Two people -- two ladies laying in the street.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 FEMALE DISPATCHER: Two female? OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE CALLER: Yes, two females. And there is a guy trying to help them. But the lady is on top -- on the top of one of them, with the
gun in her hand. And, it looks like both of them are alive.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 FEMALE DISPATCHER: I am so sorry you had to see that, sir. I am so sorry you had to see that.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joining me, Darren Kavinocky, I am holding back tears -- This is awful stuff; Criminal Defense Attorney and host of "Deadly Sins" on
Discovery I.D. Season 5 debuts tomorrow night. AnneElise Goetz, Attorney; Spirit, Psychotherapist and Lisa Guerrero, Correspondent with "Inside
Edition." Lisa, what more is there to know about this.
[19:05:00] LISA GUERRERO, CORRESPONDENT, INSIDE EDITION: Well, Jason, who is the husband has talked to cops. So he has revealed a little bit more of
the back story about what led up to this horrible, horrible incident. One of the things that he told the cops was that his wife, Christy had called a
family meeting.
So called the family together, and apparently he thought she called the family meeting to announce that there was going to be a divorce. And so
that is what he told the cops, he thought she was going to say to the girls. And apparently, she wanted to hurt him. He also said that the .38
caliber was given to her by her decreased grandfather.
And she had reportedly applied for a permit and believe it or not was denied. So a friend of the older sister says that the daughter feared --
the older daughter really feared for her safety because of that gun. And during a news conference, the sheriff talked about her history with mental
illness as a possible motive, and the cops had been called to that home over a dozen previous times, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: And mentioned that could lose -- so here what is police talked about when Christy`s husband told them about the mental health. Here it
is.
(BEGINVIDEO CLIP)
SHERIFF TROY E. NEHLS, FORT BEND COUNTY: Christy was admitted to a private mental health facility for evaluation and treatment on three separate
occasions related to attempted suicide. The length of time in these hospitals were a few days, and he picked Christy up once she was released.
Christy was suffering from depression and taking numerous prescription medications. He also told us that Christy was seeing a therapist.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Sheriff was asked whether any previous suicide attempts involved weapons. He said he did not believe so. AnneElise, there is so much to
talk about here. My first question is, is this therapist on the line for something? What might hearing she be looking at?
Oh, I do not hear her. Do you guys hear her?
SPIRIT, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: No.
DARREN KAVINOCKY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No.
PINSKY: We are not tracking her. OK. The husband, Jason, also the father of the deceased girls is heard for a few seconds during the 911 call placed
by Madison the daughter. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE CALLER: Stop! Stop! It is not OK.
JASON SHEATS, FATHER OF MADISON AND TAYLOR: I promise you whatever you want, I will --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Spirit, this is hard to talk about. The police officer is saying or that the sheriff, I guess, was saying that this is depression. This is
much more than depression. I mean this is somebody with an unstable personality. This is probably, again, for viewers that do not understand
these things, more the Jodi Arias character problems.
SPIRIT: Very much so. I mean this does not go down the road of depression at all. And Dr. Drew, you asked about the therapist being on the hook
here. I cannot see that happening unless she did not or he did not subscribe to the duty to warn.
I mean if something had been revealed in one of their therapy sessions, where she said yes, I intend to hurt either myself or I intend to hurt my
husband or the children, then that therapist would maybe possibly be on the hook here. But the other thing, Dr. Drew, we have got to start talking
about the fact that individuals with mental illness have access to weapons in this country.
PINSKY: But she was denied. Lisa, you said that. She was denied the license for the gun, right?
GUERRERO: Yes, but the gun had been in her house.
SPIRIT: But her husband had to know she had a weapon in the house.
GUERRERO: Right.
PINSKY: Yes. But here is my thing.
SPIRIT: Exactly.
PINSKY: Listen, you, guys. This is so funny. I see something very different here. This is something I dealt with all the time out there in
the psychiatric hospitals, which is this woman with a borderline personality disorder, unstable mood, homicidal thoughts, suicidal actions
goes to a hospital for three days on a hold and is sent home. That is ridiculous.
Why is not the insurance company held accountable for that? Because I guarantee you that is who practiced medicine here. Was the insurance
company mandated that, that person be discharged. They did not listen with the doctor. I do not know, but I dealt with this more times than I can
count, Darren.
SPIRIT: But how long can you keep them, Dr. Drew?
PINSKY: How about a couple of weeks?
GUERRERO: Right.
SPIRIT: How long can you keep her in that hospital?
PINSKY: Whatever it takes to save lives.
SPIRIT: I agree. But if she is not homicidal at the time, what can they do?
PINSKY: Darren.
KAVINOCKY: I think, ultimately, what we are dealing with here is the stigmatization of mental health issues.
PINSKY: Stigmatization, why?
KAVINOVKY: Absolutely. If this was somebody who suffered from cancer or lupus, family rallies around to makes sure all their needs are attended to.
When we have these mental health issues, in for a short hold and out and people do not want to talk about it.
PINSKY: But Darren, that is the point is that nobody advocates, so the insurance companies have to do with the physicians and therapists tell them
to do. What they say is what good is a hospital? "She is not suicidal anymore. She does not meet criteria for a hold. She is not acutely
unstable, why keep her?"
I dealt with that hundreds, maybe thousands of times. And I am telling you, more often than not it was to the detriment of the patient and the
family. We have to take a break. We will be back after this.
[19:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE CALLER: Yes, we need ambulance right away.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (voice-over): No one knew how grave the situation was that Christy Sheats killed her daughters, 22-year-old Taylor
and 17-year-old Madison. It was last Friday evening, a so-called family meeting spiraled into violence.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED 911 FEMALE DISPATCHER: Ford Bend 911. Do you need police, fire or EMS?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE CALLER: I promise you. Please forgive me. I am sorry. Please!
UNIDENTIFIED 911 FEMALE DISPATCHER: Hello?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE CALLER: Please. Do not shoot. Please! I am sorry! Don`t!
UNIDENTIFIED 911 FEMAKE DISPATCHER: Hello?
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PINSKY: It is a family destroyed, a mother murders her two daughters in front of witnesses including the girls` father. Tonight, we are learning
more about the relationships within the family and the mental health of the mother who was ultimately shot dead by police. I am here with Darren,
Spirit and Lisa. I have more from the sheriff about what Jason said that helped spark the fight. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[19:15:00] SHERIFF NEHLS: His oldest daughter Taylor had a verbal argument with Christy on Friday, where Christy wanted to ground her and
prevent her from seeing her boyfriend or fiance because she argued with her. Mr. Sheats did not agree with Christy and told her that it was
inappropriate to ground their 22-year-old daughter and prevent her from seeing her fiance as a result of a verbal argument.
(END VIDEO CLIP
PINSKY: The mom was invested in appearing a certain ways of others and on social media. Spirit, I want to show you something from the mom`s Facebook
page. She says, quote, "I had to share Taylor`s SnapChat today, just because I think she is so darn beautiful, love my baby." Spirit, this
woman has a superficial gloss underneath disturbed personality, trauma, mood instability and homicidal tendencies.
SPIRIT: Yes. Yes. She was a powder keg waiting to explode, Dr. Drew. And I just do not understand why she was able to have that weapon in the
house with her husband with everything going on, and she had been in the hospital three times already. None of it makes sense. It is just so
horrible. This is such a tragedy.
PINSKY: But Spirit, let me flip around what I said about the insurance companies. Let me put some of the blame at the hospital as it pertains to
what you are suggesting, which is "Do not you, when you discharge a patient, ask about accessibility to firearms? Do not you tell the family
to take knives out of the house?" This woman tried to commit suicide three times.
SPIRIT: Every time. And as a therapist, do not I do a suicidal and homicidal ideation assessment? Do not I talk about plans and access to
weapons? That is what I am saying. There are a lot of failures here, dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Yes.
SPIRIT: Everything could have been prevented on that day, had somebody done the right job.
PINSKY: Now, the husband, Jason, told police he believed this woman Christy wanted him to suffer. She had ample time to make him suffer during
this incident. He was in the home, but chose not to shoot him. She did this on his birthday.
Darren, apparently this guy was laying on his daughters on the street while the mother was still shooting at them. We do not really know what
happened, but we cannot hold this man accountable for anything, can we?
KAVINOCKY: It does not sound like it.
PINSKY: No.
KAVINOCKY: And from the way it is depicted, he is laying on his daughters as a human shield trying to save their lives. So I think it would be folly
to say that he is somehow responsible. And this is set up just perfectly for this mom, who I do not have the clinical background.
PINSKY: Mom. Mom --
KAVINOCKY: Two full scoops of crazy over here.
PINSKY: Yes. Maybe, we should not call her mom anymore, either. And what mother destroys children she birthed? It is disgusting.
KAVINOCKY: It is. It is horror beyond belief. And when you add to it the 911 calls, which really bring it home in real time, it is just so tough to
listen to.
PINSKY: Now, Taylor was 22. She was engaged to be married. One of her friends reveals exclusively the dysfunction within the family. Lisa, you
got some on this. Help me.
GUERRERO: This is so sad. There were all kinds of warning signs. And that the older sister told her friends through texts that, listen to this,
here is a quote, "Taylor used to text me about fights that were going on between her parents. But to her and Madison, these fights became normal.
Christy would try to harm herself in front of the family and she would go away for a while to a mental hospital. And when she came back, things
would be better for about two weeks before fighting started again." This is just what you were talking about, Dr. Drew, in the first segment.
PINSKY: Yes, and not only that --
GUERRERO: Horrible.
PINSKY: Not only that, Spirit, let us put some more blame. Now, we got social services involved. This is active domestic violence. That is what
this is. It is even sort of --
SPIRIT: Over and over and over.
PINSKY: And sort of terror -- domestic terror. I am going to kill myself in front of you. That is a kind of a domestic violence.
SPIRIT: Look what you made me do. Exactly.
PINSKY: Yes.
SPIRIT: These kids should have been removed from the home a long time ago. And, I get that the daughter was 22, but was not the other one a minor, Dr.
Drew?
PINSKY: Yes, of course. Of course.
GUERRERO: 17.
PINSKY: Darren, what is up?
KAVINOCKY: Well, this is something that is actually a lot more common than people realize.
PINSKY: No kidding.
KAVINOCKY: There are over 200 documented cases of what they call filicide, which is where a parent is killing their child, specifically mom killing
their child. So this is something that happens with enough regularity that we cannot look at this and say, "Well, here is just one woman, who is
hating a parent."
PINSKY: But to be fair, it is usually men that do this, to be fair. Men with their narcissist grandiosity will take everybody out when they kill
themselves. That is what my experience. But yes, women can do it too. And Lisa, you have more there too.
GUERRERO: Yes. Again, getting back to the older sister`s friend and these conversations that went back and forth between them. Here is another quote
from the friend. "She says that I am very frustrated that no matter how much this tragedy is talked about, it seems that no one is seeing mental
illness as the answer.
Christy Sheats displayed herself to the public as a well-put together person, but things were not like that inside the home. She wanted people
to think that her life was picture perfect, but the real Christy was very unhappy."
[19:20:07] PINSKY: And how often -- Unhappy is a code for unstable.
SPIRIT: Right.
PINSKY: Mood instability.
GUERRERO: With the gun.
PINSKY: Unregulated rage. And how often do we hear stories on this network where we are reporting somebody does something, and you interview
the neighbors. "We had no idea. They seem very normal" -- No. Not. They do not show you what is really going on.
And people unfortunately do not ask the right questions. We are sort of somehow timid about that. People want to make connection when they are
suffering and unhappy. Reach out to people. It does not hurt. Darren, you want add last thing?
KAVINOCKY: I do. I think this harkens back to what I was saying initially that, around the stigmatization of mental health and we can b upfront about
this --
PINSKY: Yes.
KAVINOCKY: Then maybe we can get help to the people that need it.
PINSKY: I will buy you. Rather than being afraid of these issues, just the way you would ask if you saw somebody had a fever, "How are you
feeling?" You are going to ask about how their brains are functioning too and not to have to get worried that somehow you are offending people.
Spirit, you disagree?
SPIRIT: No, I absolutely agree. And this is real simple here. If you have someone with a mental health issue in the house, you do not have
bullets in the house. You do not have guns in the house. You just do not do it. Period.
PINSKY: All right. There you go.
SPIRIT: Period.
PINSKY: Still to come, a 4-month-old baby with cocaine in her system. How did that get there? Baby did not seek it out. Police say the breast-
feeding mom is to blame.
But, next, back by popular demand. I have got the man who donates his sperm for free. He is here.
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[19:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARI NAGEL, SPERM DONOR DAD: NAGEL: Some of them I do, do it natural, and some of them I did it through the mail. Some of them, I did it on a cup,
and some of them I did it in a clinic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NAGEL: NAGEL: Well, I have 22 children, Drew. And 21 of them were conceived either in a bedroom or a fertility clinic. There was one that
was conceived in a bathroom.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NAGEL: Right. I never donated to a sperm bank. These are women that reached out to me, and we did it amongst ourselves. Sometimes when it did
not work amongst ourselves.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARI AZARI, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: What does your wife think?
NAGEL: Unfortunately, I really owe her an apology. She really wanted to remain private.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JON LEIBERMAN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Do you view this as a public service almost?
NAGEL: Public? I mean it is private service. I do not know how public it is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NAGEL: The mothers of families that want me involved, I will be involved.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: We had big reactions to the last night`s interview with that gentleman. And, I have still persistent confusion, so we elected to bring
him back for a follow-up. I am here with Darren, AnneElise, Spirit and joining us is Ari Nagel. He is the sperm donor in question. So, Ari,
welcome back. Thank you for being here. Do you understand my confusion, first of all?
NAGEL: No. I am troubled by your confusion.
PINSKY: OK. That the average person might be sort of uncomfortable with your choices?
NAGEL: You know, I think if you read some of the e-mails that I get from women and saw how sad they are and that their biggest dream in life is to
have a child and start a family and grow their family, I think, I do not know why helping people is not enough of a motivation for you.
PINSKY: OK. I understand that is your line, and I understand that, that - - I understand what is in it for them. I understand the women get to -- they like the genetic substrate they are getting access to. They get it
for free. You make it very available and you are very giving. From their perspective, I get it.
From your perspective, your wife is angry. Your three kids has 22 have siblings lying around. You have five child custody suits on you. That
does not seem like very motivating. It seems like the average person would go, "All right, I have done my duty."
NAGEL: Right. The truth is she was upset about it going public, less so about the children. But the truth is that what motivates people to give
charity? They are losing money, right. What benefits do they get in return, so you could ask that about people donating blood or any other --
PINSKY: And, the average person, even when they give to a sperm bank, has a certain amount of discomfort when they go, "Oh, my God, there are going
to be kids running around that are mine. I fathered and I am not going to be actively in their life as their father," because it is impossible when
there are so many kids scattered over the place. The average man feels uncomfortable with that.
NAGEL: Right. Well, here it is a little different. I am a known donor, so I know almost all of them. I am able to play a positive role model in a
lot of their lives. And some of them, perhaps, are --
PINSKY: Ari, I am going to interrupt you, respectfully.
NAGEL: Sure.
PINSKY: You are giving me the same line, over and over again. It is hard for the average person to understand that. I get that you feel that you
are doing God`s work. I get that.
But you are not addressing why somebody might be confused that you persistently -- and by the way, God bless your wife who allows you to
actually have sex with some of these women.
NAGEL: Right. Well, we were separated during that time.
PINSKY: Respectfully, again, you are giving me a line about it. It is just confusing to the average person. Just looking at this, and I
understand the positive. I do not understand the persistence and your persistence unwillingness to sort of address why an average person might be
kind of confused about this.
NAGEL: Right. I was in the bone marrow registry and I ended up matching with an anonymous recipient. And no one questioned me about my motivation
as to why I donated my stem cells to this person with cancer.
PINSKY: And very, very different phenomenon than giving your sperm and fathering children. Very different. And the fact that you do not
understand those are very different things is troubling.
NAGEL: You know, I have a great life. I have a lot of fun with the kids. And I met amazing people. And it is a very rich life that I have, not
monetarily, but certainly I feel very, very lucky.
[19:30:05] PINSKY: I get it. I get it. I cannot resist bringing AnneElise in here. She got this huge smile in her face, but go ahead
AnneElise. Have at it here. Go ahead.
(LAUGHING)
ANNEELISE GOETZ, ATTORNEY: I am not going to have at it, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: But you can have at me, go ahead. Go ahead.
GOETZ: I am on Ari`s side on this one.
PINSKY: I know.
GOETZ: Because I look at him as the Robin Hood of the fertility industry, because it is a $3 billion to 4 billion industry. It is capitalism at its
cruelest. Free for me costs hundreds of thousands of dollars or thousands at least for someone else and he is giving the gift of having a child in
your life. I said, Bravo. Well done.
PINSKY: All right. OK. Darren wants to pile on. Bravo.
KAVINOCKY: Yes. I think it is certainly well intentioned. And I admire the generosity of spirit, which this takes. I only wish I would have
discovered this notion early in my adolescence. Could have made a few bucks.
PINSKY: No. It is free. It is free.
KAVINOCKY: No, but here is the thing.
PINSKY: It is lost money, because they are going to come after you for child support.
KAVINOCKY: But this is like the uberization of the sperm donor business.
PINSKY: OK. Sperm Uber. Hold on. Hold on. Lisa -- Oh, Lisa is not here on my panel. I am sorry. Spirit is, though. Spirit, you understand what
I am getting at here, right?
SPIRIT: I do. And, you know, honestly, I just wish that I had Ari on my couch, because I am thinking is there some depression here? Is there some
narcissism here? Even when you said you are doing the work of God, I saw Ari -- I saw your eyebrows kind of give me something. And it made me go
what is that, that is happening?
And I just have so many questions. I want to know, like are you and your wife in a polyamorous relationship? Like, really, A plus B always equals
C. And when it does not, we do not have the right variables. And I think that you are purposefully not giving us everything we need in order to
understand this story. There is just so much more that is going on here, and you will not tell us. I want the rest of it.
NAGEL: Yes. No couch necessary. I am very, very happy. And I do not get depressed. Just have a wonderful life. I do not know why you think I
would be depressed. I just celebrated father`s day with four of the moms.
SPIRIT: Well, you said you and were wife were separated --
NAGEL: We spent a wonderful time -
SPIRIT: No, no. No, no. You said you and your wife were separated when this happened. So, if you went out and made 22 babies while you and your
wife were separated, then that tells me that you are being sexually promiscuous, and that is not normal.
PINSKY: Let me interrupt you, guys. On the phone I have got Marta Franco. She is actually considering having a baby with her partner using Ari`s
sperm. Marta, I see why you would be motivated to do this, right? It is only up side to you. But can you also understand why other people might be
skeptical about Ari`s situation?
MARTA FRANCO, FAMILY CONSIDERING ARI FOR DONOR: Sure. Of course I am. I just feel that you guys are not being fair in the sense where it is not the
average person that is making this decision. It is women like me who are having problems, fertility problems, are having emotional issues and want
to have a family, but maybe the right person is not there. And that is the person that is making this decision.
And that is who Ari is dealing with. He is not only there as a person who provides a service, as you call it, but he is also there emotionally. He
becomes friends with these people. And he is there as a guide in a lot of ways. And he has helped me out with a lot of decision making in the
process, because it could be very confusing.
PINSKY: In what sense? And what is that?
FRANCO: OK. It is confusing. First of all, monetarily it looks difficult. Secondly, there is a lot of stigma that comes with a child that
came from a sperm donor you do not know. I know that there are situations where you can know the sperm donor, but it is just -- Let me explain it to
you this way. I probably would not even be making this decision if it were not for Ari.
PINSKY: OK. So this it back to AnneElise`s Robin Hood analogy. And listen, I am certainly not implying this is all bad. I am just saying I am
confused, there are lots of unanswered questions and that Ari did not respond to Spirit`s finger. That was already something that troubled me.
SPIRIT: I am saying, I want in there.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: We have got more conversation to go.
Next up, I have got a mom who had a baby, thanks to Ari and his sperm. And she is here, and she is making one big happy family and she is with Ari.
And, later, a television personality and the intern he married are making news. They have been arrested because cocaine was found in their baby`s
system. Back after this.
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[19:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NAGEL: Some of the women -- all of the women agree not to sue my initially prior, but some of them change their mind --
AZARI: Agreed --
PINSKY: agreed how?
PINSKY: Sara, go ahead.
NAGEL: I am sorry. Agreed how? Orally? I mean, no pun intended, but how do they agree?
(LAUGHING)
NAGEL: Yes. Basically, there is really no contract that I can create. It is the child`s right to sue,.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Ari Nagel not your average sperm donor. He donates his sperm free of charge. AnneElise calls him the Robin Hood of fertility. He has no
legal commitments regarding the children he fathers and he has even had sex with some of the women who wanted to get pregnant.
Back with Darren, AnneElise, Spirit and Ari. Ari, a couple more quick questions. I hope you will not mind. Your children -- I have three kids.
I can barely meet the needs of those three kids. How do they feel about this? How do you meet their needs and 22 other kids?
NAGEL: You know, it is actually more fun. They got a lot of siblings. I have a lot of brothers and sisters that I am really close with, and now
they do as well --
PINSKY: How many brothers and sisters do you have, out of curiosity?
NAGEL: I have four brothers, two sisters. They are all in traditional relationships, married with children.
[19:40:05] PINSKY: And are you and your wife good now?
NAGEL: Yes. You know, who knew an apology on national television helps, but yes. We are certainly better.
PINSKY: I am pleased to add to the benefit, to give some benefit of being here.
NAGEL: Yes, and I wish I could clarify that for you, but she wanted to remain private. But I think that would certainly help if she allowed me to
talk about it, but she does not.
PINSKY: If she would come on and speak with us, I think that would be great. Let me --
SPIRIT: I got this.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: What is up, Spirit? What is going on? What is up, Spirit?
SPIRIT: This is sister wives, Dr. Drew. This is sister wives. He is the one husband, but it is still legal as long as he does not get married and
he can go out and have all these relationships and all these families and they are good. I got it.
PINSKY: Ari, anything to that?
NAGEL: Yes. You know, what I feel like, I feel like I work for the Make- A-Wish foundation and I am making people`s dreams come true. If you read - -
SPIRIT: Sounding narcissistic now.
PINSKY: All right --
NAGEL: It is not, because ask the women and they will tell you that this is their greatest dream in their life and I am able to make it come true
with very minimal effort.
(LAUGHING)
SPIRIT: It does not sound like --
GOETZ: I mean, he is right, though. We just heard from Marta in the last block. And Marta was saying she is in a situation, where she cannot have a
child right now. And Ari is stepping in and he is helping her. And, Dr. Drew, this is what I am saying. It is a very, very expensive thing to go
through the fertility process.
PINSKY: What is his exposure financially and legally?
GOETZ: I mean it is the same as if he jumped in bed with somebody. It is the same as a deadbeat dad or whatever you want to say. He is on the hook
legally, which is I think makes it all the more altruistic that he is doing this.
PINSKY: But he has got five suits, already and bankruptcy and then what about the wife and the children he is also responsible for?
GOETZ: No. I do not think he is responsible for the wife -- You mean the wife, the women?
PINSKY: No, no. He has got five child encumbrances so far, child -- what do you call it? Darren, help me with this. Child --
KAVINOCKY: Child support.
SPIRIT: Child support cases.
PINSKY: Child support.
GOETZ: What all we doing --
PINSKY: And who knows how many more are coming. Does not that end somewhere?
GOETZ: It just dilutes.
PINSKY: In destitution
GOETZ: It just dilutes. It dilutes and dilutes and dilutes. So eventually, and I guess I cannot speak to New York law, but you can only
have so much of your wages garnished as it relates to child support. And so what I would believe is happening is he hit that max and then the kids
are sharing equally in the amount that can be garnished.
PINSKY: All right. Joining on the phone, I have Ashley Logan. She and her partner have a daughter, thanks to Ari`s sperm donation. How did you
come to find Ari and choose him as your donor and not a sperm bank?
ASHLEY LOGAN, USED ARI AS SPERM DONOR: No. It was not a sperm bank. We went to Known Donor Registry and we found his profile on there and then
after that we met with him and we met him in person. And then we loved his personality. He made us feel comfortable and at ease.
PINSKY: Have you met other children that are biologically related to your children through Ari?
LOGAN: Yes. Absolutely. We are actually on vacation right now with two other children. They have a very close relationship, and we keep them
close. And we have birthday parties together. We go to birthday parties and we have family vacations.
PINSKY: With other --
LOGAN: They know each other as siblings.
PINSKY: -- half siblings, right? Half siblings.
LOGAN: Half siblings.
PINSKY: And does your daughter call Ari daddy?
LOGAN: Yes. She recognizes him as daddy, but that is who is.
PINSKY: I have just a little bit of time left, Ashley. Can you help me -- Ari cannot seemed to help me breakthrough my confusion about all this. I
understand why you would want to be involved with this. It seems like it is really enhancing your life and well-being. Why is Ari doing this?
LOGAN: He is actually just a very generous person. And if you get to know him and not just the newspapers and articles about him, you will see that
he is generally a nice person. And it may seem strange to a lot of people, because there are not that many genuine nice people out here in the world.
He is one of them.
PINSKY: Well, all right. Spirit, let me talk to you for a second. Let us consult in our quarters back here.
SPIRIT: Come on over here, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Here is the deal. Let us conclude this. Even if we are troubled by the motivation and some of the character issues that might --
SPIRIT: I am good.
PINSKY: Hang on. Hang on.
SPIRIT: I am good.
PINSKY: Right. He is actually helping a lot of people. He is good. They are good. Everyone actually seems OK. So whatever is setting this up and
whatever confusion I have about the motivation kind of maybe does not matter?
SPIRIT: Think about it as this is one of those new-fangled families, Dr. Drew. This is a polyamorous family, where there is one husband, there are
a lot of sister wives out there. The wife is dealing with campersion. She is happy that he is happy. Everybody seems to be happy until the kids get
older and then go, "Wait a minute, my dad, multiple children. This is a problem. This is not making sense."
PINSKY: Yes. That is we will see --
NAGEL: No. You know what?
SPIRIT: We have not gotten to the long-term effects yet.
PINSKY: Yes. We do not know --
NAGEL: The last time -- if Ashley is still on the line, she could share with you the last time that we fought, and we never had one disagreement.
How many times do couples have disagreements when they are raising children together?
SPIRIT: You do not have enough time to. You are bouncing from woman to woman. You do not have enough time to have fights. You pop in, have a
good time and pop out. I get it.
PINSKY: We will revisit this. No doubt.
Next up, a former television reporter and his breast-feeding beauty queen wife are in big trouble. Their baby test positive for cocaine. We are
back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (voice-over): A T.V. news reporter and his pageant queen wife busted when their baby test positive for cocaine.
Police say the couple snorted cocaine during a late-night party and the breast-feeding beauty queen fed their infant just hours later.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[19:50:03] MICHAEL PICARRETA, COUPLE`S ATTORNEY: I anticipate they will demonstrate that they have learned a very hard, embarrassing lesson. And
that this would become a footnote in their a life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: The husband in the case was a television reporter in Tucson. He met his wife when she was an intern at the same station. She had competed
in the Miss Arizona pageant. Their baby is only 4 months old expected to make a full recovery. The baby now is in the care of the grandmother.
Back with Darren, AnneElise, Spirit and Lisa. A friend of the couple says he saw the mom do one line of cocaine. Mom told police, she waited 12
hours before breastfeeding the baby. So Darren, is it a one-time mistake. And by the way, we do not know how big that line was.
KAVINOCKY: Yes, exactly.
PINSKY: Had to be a scar face line.
(LAUGHING)
KAVINOCKY: Yes.
PINSKY: Or do we have an addict on our hands here, and did she really wait the 12 hours. Cocaine does not concentrate in breast milk, say the way pot
does. So I do not buy the 12-hour thing.
KAVINOCKY: I do not either. And frankly, I hope this is not just subterfuge trying to avoid getting help for what really is a problem with
addiction. And we see this over and over and over again, where the price of our misbehavior is always greater than we calculate it to be.
So hopefully, this is something where if there is truly help needed, I hope that they get it, because there is so much out there for addicts who
suffer, because we know that for people that are in full blown addiction, they need their drug like a drowning person needs air.
PINSKY: Well, they love it more than anything, including their baby, possibly.
KAVINOCKY: Yes.
PINSKY: And the baby in this case was limp, lethargic. They took her to the hospital, but the parents refused to let the baby`s blood be tested
initially. They took the baby to another hospital, refused to the same blood test.
Hospital, though, found traces of cocaine in the baby`s urine. And the hospitals cannot -- they cannot do anything if the parents refuse. They
are entitled to refuse care. The father confessed to police that drugs were in the home. Lisa, what evidence did the police find there?
GUERRERO: It does not seem like this was a one-time thing with this selfish couple, in my opinion. Because the cops, when they went into the
house, they found a plethora of drug paraphernalia including, get this, plastic baggies with marijuana leaves printed on them, white powder that
tested positive for cocaine, a digital scale, a grocery club card with white residue on it and a rolled up dollar bill.
PINSKY: Yes.
GUERRERO: So plenty for the cops to take home with them.
PINSKY: Yes.
GUERRERO: In my opinion, by the way, for them to shuttle from hospital to hospital because they did not want their baby to undergo these tests is
outrageously selfish of them. What if something would have happened to that child while they were saying to the doctors and nurse, "Do not test my
baby." That baby could have died while they were covering their butts.
PINSKY: AnneElise, you look stricken by this case.
GOETZ: Well, yes. And, I think we just hit the nail on the head with that last point. This is my problem. It is child abuse. OK? They are getting
charged with child abuse. I hope that they are prosecuted and found guilty for it, because it is child abuse. And what bothers me even more is they
knew what was going on. They knew that there was cocaine in that baby`s system. That is obviously why the baby was reacting the way that it was.
PINSKY: Consciousness of guilt, right?
GOETZ: And, they would not tell the doctors.
PINSKY: Yes.
GOETZ: They would not tell. OK. You are taking your child to the hospital but you will not tell the doctor what the problem is.
PINSKY: Right.
GOETZ: And to be fair -- I am with you, AnneElise and to be fair, this is not a child that is a little fussy. It is a child lethargic and going
towards an alter sensorium, possibly unconscious. We are back after this.
[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: We are talking about a news anchor and his beauty queen wife arrested when their baby tested positive for cocaine. Back with Darren,
AnneElise, Spirit and Lisa.
The couple`s attorney says, the following, quote, "If there is misjudgment as to how fast cocaine is out of your system, then it is an error that has
been learned. It will not be repeated."
So Spirit, this just an issue of pharmocology. If we can just teach her a little pharmacology and breast mild, concentration, circulating illicit
drugs, we will be done.
SPIRIT: Right. Not parenting classes. Not rehab, Dr. Drew, just they will not do this again. Point taken, we have got to wait longer. And, you
know, Dr. Drew, the real issue, I have talked to a couple of medical providers here.
It actually takes cocaine about three to four days to leave breast milk as what I am hearing. And then babies do not have an enzyme necessary to
really be able to process this out of their system.
PINSKY: That is right.
SPIRIT: So the idea that this child is OK, tells me that this is not a lifetime thing that is happening here, but clearly there is an issue and
they need to do better.
PINSKY: Darren.
KAVINOCKY: Yes. Well, the real issue here, though, is the safety of that baby.
PINSKY: Yes.
KAVINOCKY: And that is where I would argument for this expansion of what is known as these good Samaritan laws when people call 911, even if there
are illegal substances afoot, there is a bar against prosecution because you want to get medical help for the person.
PINSKY: I do not know. But Darren, when there is child abuse going on, these parents face three felony charges, child abuse, possession of
narcotic, position of drug paraphernalia. They had a scale in there to weigh out their cocaine. AnneElise, any chance they are going to get this
baby back?
GOETZ: Yes. I think they will get the baby back. I think that it will probably go into a family member`s household for a little while, but this
is one of those cases where they are getting the baby back.
PINSKY: Well, I am always in favor of getting back into the family of origin, but I hope they get some -- one of them has a big problem, if not
both of them. They have a scale for cocaine. They use enough cocaine they have to measure it out with their grand scale. Come on now, there is
something really bad going on here.
Thank you all for watching. We will see you soon. Please DVR this show then you can watch it any time, and do tell a friend, if you do not mind.
We think we are doing something here that we like and we like you to be a part of it. Nancy Grace is up next.
END
