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Dr. Drew
The Mother Accused Of Using Facebook While Driving Seconds Before Crashing Her Car, Killing Her Daughter And Two Nieces, Found Not Guilty In Their Deaths; Police And Teenager Prostitute Reveals All About How She Brought Down An Entire Department In A Sex Scandal; Johnny Manziel Says He Is Going To Get Sober
Aired June 30, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:17] (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (voice-over): A mom accused of killing her 11- year-old daughter and her two 5-year-old nieces in a deadly crash.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY HOVE, PIERCE COUNTY SHERIFF: It appears that she, for some reason, had lost control going sideways into the lane of the truck. And at that
point, she was swung several times before the car came to rest.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Prosecutors say Kari Milberg was on her phone using Facebook while she was driving her SUV.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST OF "NANCY GRACE" PROGRAM: They are saying that she was on Facebook. Back up. Her 11-year-old little girl was on Facebook or
she hit an icy patch.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AARON NELSON, MILBERG`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: There was snow on the road.
DOUG DUCKLOW, PIERCE COUNTY SHERIFF`S DE{ARTMENT INVESTIGATOR: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: When I look at that mangled car and imagine all these little children in the car --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL PAVEK, KARI MILBERG`S BROTHER-IN-LAW: she is absolutely, absolutely a beautiful, beautiful person and she would do anything for
those kids.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST OF "DR. DREW" PROGRAM: Such a sad story. We have breaking news, the mother accused of using Facebook while driving
seconds before crashing her car, killing her daughter and two nieces, she is found not guilty in their deaths.
Joining us, Anahita Sedaghatfar, Criminal Defense Attorney and Of Counsel to the Cochran Firm; Leo Terrell, Criminal Defense Attorney and Cheryl
Arutt, Clinical and Foresinc Psychologist. I also got Pat Lalama, Managing Editor of "Crime Watch Daily." She joins us. Pat, you got some details.
PAT LALAMA, MANAGING EDITOR, CRIME WATCH DAILY: Yes. It only took them two hours. Some might think that was a stunning verdict, but here is the
scenario, she was charged with many, many violations, three felony counts of vehicular homicide just to give you the long and the short, she is on a
Wisconsin highway in 2013. She has the kids in the car. We know that she was texting a man about having lunch and there were nine exchanges between
the two of them.
Then within seconds, she crosses the barrier, rams into a truck. Her daughter dies. Her two nieces die, horrific, horrific case, but that jury
apparently, Dr. Drew, could not prove -- in their mind it seems to me that they are saying, you cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt that in those
few seconds after the facebooking and crash that maybe she was not looking straight ahead and hit an icy patch, therein lies the dilemma.
PINSKY: And Leo, the reasonable doubt for three felony charges. Did they overcharge this woman?
LEO TERRELL, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. And they were basically trying to send a message which was wrong. I am glad the jury came back
because there is other evidence that indicates it was not the texting. How about ice on the road. How about snow. I am happy. The jury got it right
and we cannot assume that the mere fact that you are texting automatically caused that accident.
PINSKY: OK. But Leo, I also heard that she had OxyContin prescription, OxyContin in her blood, something called Midazolam in her blood, which I do
not understand how that got there, that is what was said. It is intravenous benzodiazepines. How come none of -- that is way more
significant than texting, in my opinion?
TERRELL: I concur. That is why she came back with a not guilty verdict. But let us be clear, this woman did not deserve to be found guilty. There
was ice and snow on the road, so I applaud the jury. They were in the position to evaluate the fact. No guilty beyond a reasonable doubt at all.
None.
PINSKY: Anahita, do you agree?
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Actually, i agree with Leo.
TERRELL: Yey!
SEDAGHATFAR: Yey for once!
PINSKY: What?
SEDAGHATFAR: I think that the jurors clearly found that there was reasonable doubt. They were not convinced that the causation was that this
woman was texting at the time of the crash. They believe it could have been the ice, it could have been the worn out tires.
And Dr. Drew, the defense must have been extremely confidant in their case, not to call one witness. And I think they did a brilliant job by
essentially making their defense through cross-examining the state`s own witnesses and their experts. So I think the jurors got it right here.
PINSKY: All right, well, I want to show you the Facebook exchanges she was having with a man just before the crash. Have a look at this.
(BEGIN AUDIO RE-ENACTMENT:
MILBERG: I will meet you for lunch.
JASON MCKENZIE, MILBERG`S LONG-TIME FRIEND: Bull [EXPLICIT WORD].
MILBERG: Ha ha ha.
MCKENZIE: You are nervous. I just may meet you.
MILBERG: I am nervous.
MCKENZIE: IT takes a lot to get me nervous.
MILBERG: I am, too. Kind of bad.
MCKENZIE: I am not nervous.
(END VOICE RE-ENACTMENT)
PINSKY: Police also -- very strange exchange.
SEDAGHATFAR: Strange.
PINSKY: Police also found a prescription of Oxycodone as I said. She had therapeutic so-called levels of Oxycodone in her system. Though I am going
to tell you, if you add in the benzodiazepine that she allegedly had, it is a sedative called Midazolam, also in her system, that is not -- that is the
same thing that I think killed Prince, that combination -- every time you hear about a celebrity dying, it is that combination on those two
substances. She should not be driving a car.
And the detective testified that when he powered on Kari`s phone, he saw an unsent message inside the Facebook app suggesting she may have been in the
middle of writing when she crashed. Now, on the phone I have Aaron Nelson Kari`s defense attorney. Thank you so much for joining us.
[19:05:10] AARON NELSON, KARI MILBERG`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You are welcome.
PINSKY: Now, you heard my attorneys here agreed with you -- not just agreed with the jury, really had nothing but glowing things to say about
your defense.
NELSON: Always nice to hear.
PINSKY: Evidence, though, showed that she was on Facebook just seconds before the crash. Help me understand what the defense was.
NELSON: well, the evidence showed that the phone was using Facebook, but certainly one of the issues was who was using the phone. As well as one of
the other issues was when that phone was being used, not observed, but actually used in relation to the crash.
PINSKY: Pat, you were making faces at that.
LALAMA: Well, with all due respect for great defense work, I mean, seriously, seconds before -- this is happening within seconds of these
exchanges she is not wearing a seat belt, the fact that she has even got the phone in her hand to me is a lethal weapon. This is just heinous,
recklessness.
And I understand the concept of reasonable doubt, but for me you can put it all together and have a great circumstantial case against this woman on
some level to be acquitted all the way across the board is heinous to me.
TERRELL: No, no no. Not true at all. Not true at all. I can have a hamburger in my hand. You have to show causation. And what this great
attorney did and was say, "Wait a minute, prove that the Facebook, tweets- related caused the accident. With all the other evidence like snow and ice, great job, attorney.
LALAMA: No, no, no. The expert said that weather was not a factor and gee whiz, she was just a bad mother only because she did not check and get new
tires. Come on.
SEDAGHATFAR: That is actually not true. The expert on cross examine, I am sure the attorney can clarify if I am wrong, testified that it could have
been the conditions the slippery floor --
PINSKY: Mr. Nelson, is that accurate?
NELSON: The expert could rule out our reasonable hypothesis that it was a slippery road and a bad tire.
SEDAGHATFAR: That is right.
NELSON: They all agree with that.
PINSKY: All right, I want to switch over. I found it a little more troubling, which -- Cheryl, back me up on this, the OxyContin and
benzodiazepine combination. I do not understand, why more was not made to that. Do not you agree with me on this?
CHERYL ARUTT, PSY.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: I do, Dr. Drew. I think it is really concerning that she had the medications. She did not have her
seat belts on. There were a lot of things that are very clearly bad judgment on her part, and we wonder whether that was affected by the --
TERRELL: You guys are --
PINSKY: Leo, we are splitting -- we are getting into the weeds. Give us a little opportunity. We have the attorney on the phone.
TERRELL: I have a couple shame buttons right here.
PINSKY: No shame yet.
SEDAGHATFAR: He said, not for me this time, Leo.
ARUTT: The attorney`s team can get it right and we can say that her judgment was really bad and that in the real world the penalty that this
woman has to live with and her 3-year-old little boy has to live with for what happened is worse than anything else.
PINSKY: Well, that is right. And maybe that is official. Mr. Nelson, tell us about that. The substances really trouble us.
NELSON: The blood draw was done an hour after she was already hospital.
PINSKY: So, they were giving her those medicines in the E.R.
NELSON: That was unclear. And that is why from the get-go state has never tried to put that into the evidence.
PINSKY: Yes. Mr. Nelson, hold on a second. Pat, he is right, because the Midazolam is Versed. It is an IV medicine that they give you when they
need you to be flat out, so they can work on you.
LALAMA: But did she not have a doctor`s prescription or had some sort of prescription form --
PINSKY: For Oxycodone.
LALAMA: -- of Oxycodone.
PINSKY: Yes. But that does not mean, she took it before she was driving. They may have given it to her when she got to the emergency room.
LALAMA: Yes. There are certainly weaknesses. But I would like to find out, could they have considered something less. That is one thing I could
not find at any of the -- so what else could they have considered, because to me, there is some level of heinous, irresponsibility here that leads to
some criminality. Help me out here.
PINSKY: Leo. Leo.
TERRELL: No, no, no. Sorry, Pat. I love you, but no. You are absolutely wrong. Your got to prove causation. You want to show the guilt and the
sorrow. The lost of the three kids is horrible, but you cannot convict a person -- if cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt the causation of the
Facebook. And that attorney did a great job regarding proving that.
LALAMA: Wait a minute. I am talking about no seat belt, even texting at all --
TERRELL: That does not prove causation.
LALAMA: Well, it may not equate to the homicide charges, but there is something there. For her, I know it seems crazy and I am not a lawyer and
that is probably why I am reacting emotionally, people want answers. They do not feel that --
TERRELL: Calm down. Calm down.
PINSKY: She is suffering -- she is suffering a huge consequence. She has three children who are dead.
TERRELL: Yes.
PINSKY: We got to go to break. Does this verdict mean the jury is feeling texting and driving is not that big a deal?
And, later, police and the prostitute, a teenager reveals all about how she brought down an entire department in a sex scandal. We are back after
this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: She was driving them home. They had been out to play in an indoor play center.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Never imagining that mommy would be texting and chatting away on Facebook, according to cops, veering into oncoming traffic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Kari Jo Milberg was escorted out of the courthouse and into an awaiting car. She refused to answer reporter
questions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NELSON: Things happen in cars and time passes and we move on down the road.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: A mother found not guilty in the deaths of three little girls. She was accused of chatting on social media seconds before crashing her
car. Her 11-year-old daughter, two 5-year-old nieces, all killed. Back with Anahita, Leo, Cheryl and Pat. And we just received -- we just got a
911 call that was made immediately after the crash. Here it is.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE CALLER: Somebody just hit an SUV.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 MALE DISPATCHER: Is there injuries?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE CALLER: There has to be.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 MALE DISPATCHER: OK.
UNIDENTIFED FEMALE CALLER: There is nobody moving in the SUV.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 MALE DISPATCHER: There is nobody moving?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE CALLER: We see no movement from the driver`s side. There are children in the vehicle, too. The driver of the semi just
stopped and told us that.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 MALE DISPATCHER: OK. So how many patients do you think there may be?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE CALLER: He is thinking four or five. He cannot tell.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PINSKY: Awful. Took the jury just two hours to come back with a not guilty verdict. Now, Leo, you say that is the right verdict.
[19:15:03] TERRELL: Absolutely.
PINSKY: Absolutely.
TERRELL: Absolutely.
PINSKY: Pat, you are very upset with this verdict.
LALAMA: I am upset. Look, I am pragmatic enough to understand and believe in the system, but there was only 19 seconds from the last text and the 911
call, 19 seconds. So you are telling me that the jury said, well, we do not know what she was doing.
She might have had her hands on the wheel with her face straight ahead. But they tried to imply that one of the daughters may have been
facebooking, which I found a little bit upsetting. The daughter is facebooking a guy about -- seriously?
And I do think there is a level of sentimentality here. She is a mother. It is her sisters who lost her daughters. Is not it possible that the jury
said as you implied or someone implied she has suffered enough. Let us move along.
PINSKY: We saw that exchange in the last block, and it was kind of a bizarre exchange. It does kind of field with the idea that somebody was
goofing around with her text. But Mr. Nelson, you are still with us, you were the defense attorney.
NELSON: Yes.
PINSKY: Do you know how the jury was split on this decision?
NELSON: I do not. I spoke with the two alternate jurors and one was very convinced that she had suffered enough. The other -- there was a younger
female juror, the male juror expressed that he was pretty convinced that she was texting, but he had thought that the state had not proved causation
and/or the time connection. He thought that the state just did not have enough. That is what was expressed to me by the jurors.
PINSKY: And Mr. Nelson, I also understand that she reported that she had no memory of what happened. She had a very severe head injury herself,
correct?
NELSON: Correct. The two medical -- the two examiners both concluded that she had amnesia and the judge made a legal finding that that was true.
PINSKY: Yes. And Cheryl to back that up. When you have a head injury and end up in a coma, you necessarily are going to have something called, we
call retrograde amnesia. You are not going to remember typically what led up to that event.
LALAMA: Yes. Retrograde amnesia makes it impossible for her to be able to really testify about what happened immediately prior to the crash. And I
am quite sure that this woman is never, ever, ever going to want to do anything like this again.
PINSKY: Why? You and I were talking -- Pat, listen, Cheryl and I were talking during the break, that just to recover from something like this,
she is going to have to do years of service just for her own recovery, let alone for justice to be served.
LALAMA: Well, if you are asking me, I mean, I do not mean to sound so hard core. I am sure life will never, ever, ever -- there will never be any joy
on so many levels in this woman`s life and I am sure there is regrets.
Everyone said they were a really close family. I cannot imagine what she feels like when she gets up in the morning, but why do people not take this
issue of having phones in their hands when they are operating a vehicle more seriously.
PINSKY: Pat, have you ever texted while you are driving? Have you ever made a calendar, have you ever been in a phone call.
LALAMA: Yes, but --
PINSKY: OK. Me, too. Guilty.
LALAMA: But wait a minute. Wait a minute. But wait a minute. But I know how horrible it is. And covering stories like this should teach us all a
lesson. And I know she has learned a hard lesson, but I do not know.
I just feel like -- maybe I am just one of those people this time around rather than applying the laws, I try do whenever I know you have to do
that, is it this time I am one of those people that just wants some sort of punishment for it, though.
TERRELL: You do not get punishment -- you do not get punishment unless there is evidence. You can keep showing the three kids who lost their
lives, and that is very painful and sad, but you do not convict someone unless the state proves there is evidence. Attorney Nelson, you did a
great job because they did not prove causation.
PINSKY: Anahita, you have been trying to get in here. Go ahead.
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes. I do not think that we should down play the sympathy factor --
LALAMA: Yes.
SEDAGHATFAR: -- and it could be that those jurors found her technically guilty. But when they look at the fact that her own daughter died, her
nieces died she suffered a coma.
TERRELL: No, that is not true. No, no.
PINSKY: Let me show you in a similar case in 2012 in Massachusetts --
SEDAGHATFAFR: That is not true?
PINSKY: Well, it might be true, but I am going to show you similar cases. We got Aaron Deveau crashed head-on to the truck, killed the driver.
Prosecutors claimed he was texting at the time of the crash. He got two years. Now, this woman did not lose her license.
SEDAGHATFAT: But the defense did a great job. The defense really portrayed her as a victim in this case. But she said she was a single
mother. She was doing all she could to make it. She could not afford to change her tires. Obviously, that sympathetic argument played in the minds
of the jury there.
TERRELL: There is no evidence in the jury nullified the case at all. There was no jury nullification here and the jury did not buy the sympathy
card.
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, the jury was not pulled. The jury was not pull. I am saying we cannot down play that fact. We cannot down play the fact.
PINSKY: If I do not give Pat the last word, she is going to fly out the screen at it. Go ahead, Pat. Last word, go ahead.
LALAMA: I am going to apply Lalamalian rule. She is guilty of something. I am sorry.
PINSKY: She has been condemned to the loss of three kids.
LALAMA: I know. I know.
PINSKY: I am telling you that is a life time condemnation that she will have to wake up with everyday.
LALAMA: Yes. I get all that. But I do think the jury felt sorry for her. But I do not know, when I am hearing that she is texting some man about
lunch, I do not know. I do not know.
[19:20:00] PINSKY: All right. All right, Burbank PD, I know they sit around Victory Boulevard there. You look for Pat Lalala driving to work,
see if she texts or make a phone call. Sit there on western, they look for you, you look for Pat Lalama. She has that phone with the silver back on
it. She will be texting, I promise. Remind her how serious this is.
Next up, the teen hooker at the center of the bay area of police sex scandal is telling all. She is claiming she slept with more than 30 police
employees.
And later, last chance for Johnny Manziel. The drug abusing quarterback says he is going to get sober. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (voice-over): Allegations of wide-spread police misconduct, including a sex scandal involving the exploitation of a
teenager. It all started last fall with the suicide of an officer. Officials say an investigation into his death uncovered disturbing
allegations.
[19:25:00] Within months an 18-year-old alleged she had sex with him as well as a number of other officers from Oakland P.D. and surrounding police
departments. In just nine days, three police chiefs have been fired or resigned. One chief lasted only five days.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ELIZABETH BECKMAN SCHAAF, (D) OAKLAND MAYOR: As the mayor of Oakland, I am here to run a police department, not a frat house.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: The teenage prostitute at the center of this widespread and spreading police scandal is telling all in an interview with television
station KGO, she says she had sex with 30 officers in seven different agencies. Back with Anahita, Leo, Cheryl and Pat. Pat, is it the suicide
that triggered the investigation?
LALAMA: Oh my gosh, Dr. Drew. This story to me the portrait of human patheticism on all levels. All right, so this young woman claims she had
sex with at least four officers when she was under age. All right, let us forget about the other alleged 30 or more that goes with this case.
She says that one of them Brendon O`Brien, I believe, an Oakland area officer, she was having this relationship with him. She went to Puerto
Rico when she turned 18 to celebrate. She was in a bad neighborhood in a Bikini and drunk.
So she thought that she would find and build via social medial to help from him -- No, she tried to call him to get help. He did not call her back,
but she sees him on social media, so she assumes that he is ignoring her. She gets angry and threatens to rat him out. He says I will commit suicide
and sure enough he did.
PINSKY: Wow.
LALAMA: In his marine core T-shirt, by the way.
PINSKY: Oh my God.
LALAMA: And that is what blew the lid off of this. This whole story -- this is why I like dogs better than people when we tell a story like this.
It is horrifying.
PINSKY: I just wrote down the word patheticism.
LALAMA: Yes.
PINSKY: So, mostly male patheticism, to be fair. Although, this woman at the core of this, I think is more diabolic than it seems at first brush.
She says the officer and she were close. She showed the KGO reporter a text message exchange.
He wrote, quote, "There is no women in my life." She then says, "I do not believe you." He wrote back, "Except for you. I am serious." Of course
this girl was seeing multiple other officers. The guy`s wife -- the guy who committed suicide, his own wife had committed suicide, two years
earlier.
Now, Cheryl, he knew he was going to be outed by this woman, but it seems more complicated than just that. I mean, this guy -- is it just that that
made him commit suicide or is it more complicated I guess would be the question.
ARUTT: People will do really dramatic things, Dr. Drew in the face of overwhelming shame. I do not think that he could tolerate the overwhelming
shame that he was going to feel to be marked, to be exposed in this kind of way.
This was obviously a man who was very vulnerable. His wife had committed suicide and he remained in the same home that she killed herself in. And
from my work with people with trauma, people want to get out of a place that has any kind of reminders in that way.
It is very complicated because he was vulnerable for those reasons. I have to say, though, I think that she as a sex worker and underage sex worker,
initially is also in a vulnerable position because that child sex trafficking if someone is under 18 --
PINSKY: Yes, I understand.
ARUTT: And she was going to want to leverage the power that she had as well.
PINSKY: Right. Absolutely. Ad I think somebody starts prostituting when they are 12 is essentially a hard core criminal, typically in my
experience.
ARUTT: The prostitute or the people who put her in the position to be --
PINSKY: Well, listen, I am not letting the Johns off the hook. I am with you on that, but the fact is you start prostituting at 12, that is not
going to be a normal development.
ARUTT: You are a victim --
PINSKY: It is a victim --
ARUTT: You are a victim if you are prostituting at 12.
PINSKEY: At 16 she had sex with her first police officer who allegedly told her, quote, "Hurry up and turn 18. Two others had sex with her while
she was still under age 18. Four deputies who slept with her when she was 18 claimed it was consensual and that they exchanged no money.
Those guys were cleared of misconduct. Joining me is retired Lieutenant Randy Sutton of Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department. Randy, cleared
of misconduct, does that seem right to you?
LT. RANDY SUTTON (RET.), LAS VEGAS METROPOLITAN PD: Well, yes, it does actually because of the consensual nature of that relationship. But I want
to go back to something that was brought up a little earlier and that is about -- I do not know if you are aware of statistics, but police officers
who get into trouble with their on or off duty are seven times more likely to commit suicide.
And there is already a very large percentage of suicides in law enforcement. So when a police officer shames himself or shames his police
department like this, like this officer clearly knew that he did, it is sad in many, many ways and the death of this officer really demonstrates that
in a very dramatic way.
PINSKY: You see Leo, you toss around that shame. See how toxic it gets, buddy.
TERRELL: You know what? I cannot believe this. Does the last guest want us to feel sorry for these dirty cops, who --
LT. SUTTON: Absolutely not. Absolutely not.
TERRELL: OK, because it sounds like you do.
LT. SUTTON: No, no, no.
TERRELL: And I want to make sure you are clear -- OK. Because these officers are criminals. And I want to make sure Dr. Drew, I heard you
correctly, this 12-year-old, she is a victim, correct?
PINSKY: Well. No -- what I said was --
TERRELL: Is he is a criminal?
PINSKY: What I said was --
SEDAGHATFAR: She is 18.
TERRELL: Is she a criminal or a victim?
[19:30:00] PINSKY: -- she was victimized but became a prostitute and I am certain --
TERRELL: No. I am asking you a question. Is he is a victim or criminal when she was 12?
PINSKY: Listen.
TERRELL: That is a yes or no question.
PINSKY: She is a criminal. She is breaking the laws.
TERRELL: No. You are wrong.
LALAMA: Why cannot she be both?
SEDAGHATFAR: No.
TERRELL: No, you are wrong, Dr. Drew.
LALAMA: Why cannot she be both?
TERRELL: Dr. Drew, you are wrong.
PINSKY: You made me say yes or no.
LALAMA: Wait, wait, wait. Hold on. Hold on.
PINSKY: Pat, go ahead.
LALAMA: This woman, and believe me, I mean I am upset about it including her. At 12 years old you did mention, Dr. Drew, that her mother worked for
the police department.
PINSKY: Yes.
LALAMA: And this first guy was her mother`s friend. So, where did it all begin? I do not think we can ignore where the victimization began.
PINSKY: OK. Hang on. Leo, let me pose a similar situation. Leo.
TERRELL: Yes, sir.
PINSKY: So, we have a horrible parent who injects a child, age 12, with heroin.
TERRELL: Yes.
PINSKY: The child then begins trafficking in heroin. Is that child a criminal or a victim?
TERRELL: A victim. A victim.
PINSKY: So when that child goes to -- you have to empty the jails because there is a lot of people out there that were victimized and became drug
addicts. I agree with you on that front, by the way.
TERRELL: Well, listen. Dr. Drew, you cancel your vacation. You and I are going up to Oakland. We are cleaning this up.
PINSKY: All right.
TERRELL: That girl is a victim and we have to clean up that police department.
LALAMA: I agree with Leo on this child --
SEDAGHATFAR: Please, Dr. Drew, let me ring in.
PINSKY: All right. Wait, I have not heard from Anahita. Go ahead, Anahita.
SEDAGHATFAR: I think a lot of you, guys had your facts wrong. From what I understand, there are 30 police officers under investigation. Apparently,
according to this girl, only three of them paid for sex. Now, that is three too much in my opinion, I get it. But she is saying that the rest of
the sex with the other men was consensual, it was between two adults --
TERRELL: She is under age.
LALAMA: Wait. Wait.
PINSKY: She is 18.
LALAMA: No.
(CROSTALK)
SEDAGHATFAR: Can I finish my --
PINSKY: Hold on.
SEDAGHATFAR: Can I finish my statement?
PINSKY: Anahita then Pat. Go ahead.
SEDAGHATFAR: Let me finish my statement. So if it turns out that that sex was consensual, that she was a consenting adult. It is disgusting. It is
reprehensible. These are police officers, that is not criminal, though.
PINSKY: All right, Pat.
LALAMA: One thing everyone needs to understand in terms of facts. She claims that a lot of the cops that did not pay her, who did not pay her,
were offering her perks, calling her up and saying, "You might want to stay clear of this intersection because there is a sting going on" -- and I am
going to tell you --
PINSKY: Right.
TERRELL: Can I just --
LALAMA: And I am going to tell you certain things about your buddies who are under investigation. That is not criminal? That is not criminal?
PINSKY: Wait. Anahita --
SEDAGHATFAR: That is not criminal.
LALAMA: That is not obstruction of justice?
SEDAGHATFAR: That is not an obstruction of justice, no.
PINSKY: Hold on.
SEDAGHATFAR: I do not believe what they did was right. They had sex with a known prostitute. Now, to say that that takes it to the level of
criminality, I think we have to wait and see what the facts show. If this was indeed consensual sex between two adults, that is not criminal.
PINSKY: Hold on. OK. Randy, so we have these officers consorting with the prostitute and using a prostitute. We have a quid pro quo going that
is helping her evade and maintain her practice. Is there a problem?
LT. SUTTON: Yes. There is a huge problem. You got to understand that every police agency has what I call an ethical environment. That generally
comes from the top. It has to drips down through the department. Policing themselves is very, very important, but it is -- you really need to make a
delineation here. The officers that gave her information in return for sex is corruption.
PINSKY: Yes.
LT. SUTTON: That is the end of it. The misuse of professional power for personal benefit is corruption.
PINSKY: Yes.
LT. SUTTON: That is the standard that we go by. The fact that they gave her information jeopardized -- jeopardized their own investigations and the
lives of their fellow police officers.
LALAMA: Right.
LT. SUTTON: That is a crime.
PINSKY: We will leave it there. We got to take a break. I am going to show you that even a canine unit got ensnared in all this. It may be the
most bizarre part of this scandal.
And later, Johnny Manziel says he is on the comeback after one more fling. Then he will get treatment. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (voice-over): The message this week outside of Oakland Police Department Headquarters was clear and deliberate --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: We are here saying that OPD is rotten to its core.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Rocked by two separate scandals, allegations of wide-spread police misconduct, including a sex scandal involving the
exploitation of a teenager and racist text messages sent within the Oakland P.D.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR SCHAAF: I want to assure the citizens of Oakland that we are hell bent on rooting out this disgusting culture.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: A teenage prostitute reveals she is the one who brought down several police chiefs in a major bay area scandal. Pat, back with Anahita,
Leo, Cheryl, Pat and Randy. And Pat, there was this canine piece, too. Tell me about the handler.
LALAMA: Oh my gosh. All right, well, she claims that one of the men officers with whom she had sex with was the canine handler and then in fact
she was having sex with him in the patrol car with the canine watching.
And, Dr. Drew, can I just say, who knows when I will get another chance on this, there is no one a bigger defender and stalwart supporter of law
enforcement than me, for Christ sake, you got 30 officers in seven divisions, keep your darn pants on.
PINSKY: Right.
LALAMA: OK. Now, I had enough.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: OK. Well, I am glad you did. But, Randy made the point very eloquently, that it is a culture. It is a culture of corruption.
LALAMA: I know. I know.
PINSKY: That is the problem. Right, Randy? It is a misappropriation of power.
LT. SUTTON: Well, the individuals that did -- they were giving information, that is misconduct. That is corruption, absolutely. When you
are talking about an ethical environment, it is how do you police yourselves: What is acceptable within the agency? What is acceptable
within the units of the agencies themselves?
Now, I got to tell you this that I hear from police officers all over the country and guys are shaking their heads going, "Why do we have to have
this?" Police officers are generally held to a higher level of conduct in standards. And that is a source of pride for men and women in law
enforcement.
TERRELL: Come on. Oh, please, come on.
SEDAGHATFAR: I actually agree with him. I actually agree --
PINSKY: One at a time. At a time. Anahita.
[19:40:00] SEDAGHATFAR: Yes. I actually agree. I think -- I want to clarify this is something I said earlier. Police officers should be held
to a higher standard. So in my opinion, whether these police officers paid for it, whether it was prostitution, not prostitution, it was disgusting.
They had sex with a known prostitute.
LALAMA: Yes. Yes.
PINSKY: OK. Leo?
TERRELL: You know what, and Anahita should know this, as well, as I have been doing civil rights law for 22 years.
SEDAGHATFAR: That is right.
TERRELL: Police misconduct, this happens all the time. They just got caught. Look, police officers cannot police themselves. They are in bed
with the district attorney. This goes on all the time. Come on. This is nothing new.
PINSKY: Leo, you want a big infrastructure to police police? We have to held to professional standards.
TERRELL: I am not disputing that, but let us not be naive on what is going on here. You think this is a surprise? They got caught.
PINSKY: All right. Now, listen. You challenged me about the victim -- Randy, hang on a second.
TERRELL: I want to poll everybody if that girl is a victim.
PINSKY: That is what I want to get into, Randy -- I mean, Leo.
LALAMA: She is both. She is both.
PINSKY: Hold on, everybody. That is right, Pat. She is both. And I want to parse that out, Leo, because you really bring up a very important point.
And it is the reason I said she is a criminal, a prostitute is because that is what she became as a result of her victimization and sex trafficking.
LALAMA: Exactly.
PINSKY: What I am saying is, yes, we should feel deep sympathy for this woman that was a product of victimization and sex trafficking, but those
people that are products of that can be very, very hard core criminals.
TERRELL: Well, you do not knee about her and she was wrecked at 12 years old, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Yes, wrecked.
TERRELL: You are coming down very hard on her. At 12, when this happened to her, you come in down too hard for her. I say poll the panel. She is a
victim.
ARUTT: I agree with you, Leo.
PINSKY: Cheryl --
SEDAGHATFAR: How come you are not showing some of her interview, Dr. Drew?
PINSKY: Hold on. Cheryl, go ahead.
ARUTT: Leo, if someone is 12 years old, she is a victim of sex trafficking. This girl was fleeing her pimp when she initially met one of
the police officers and the Associated Press has stopped using the term child prostitute, because when it is a child, it is sex trafficking.
TERRELL: Right. Thank you.
ARUTT: And I think we all need to agree that --
PINSKY: We all agree with that. Poll, everybody agrees with that? Hands up. Everybody agrees with that. Yes, everybody agrees to sex trafficking.
But Pat and I would also say she is also a criminal.
TERRELL: No.
PINSKY: She is 18 now doing the same thing.
LALAMA: She is a committing a crime.
TERRELL: No. No.
LALAMA: Yes, yes, yes. She is committing a crime and so are the Johns. And, unfortunately, in this society the Johns get a break a lot. I covered
the Heidi Fleiss trial, okay, and many others. But, you know, the thing is I am that one who will always say the strippers, the hookers, the
prostitutes, something went wrong deep inside in that family life a long time ago. I know men do not like to hear that because it ruins the
fantasy, but yes, something heinous happened in that house.
PINSKY: Of course, sometimes a murderer is too that way.
LALAMA: She knows now as an adult that what she is doing is against the law and can go seek help and stop doing it.
PINSKY: Randy?
LT. SUTTON: Yes.
PINSKY: Go ahead. You were trying to say something.
LT. SUTTON: There is a lot of interesting stuff going on here. First of all, at 12 years old, you know she had to have some serious psychological
issues to go into the sex trade.
LALAMA: Yes.
LT. SUTTON: Now, the fact that there was a pimp involved, that individual needs to go to prison for the rest of his life.
PINSKY: Yes.
LT. SUTTON: That is who victimizes impressionable young women.
PINSKY: Who may or may not be vulnerable. That is the point.
TERRELL: No, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Sympathy and not exploitation.
TERRELL: Help her, Dr. Drew.
LT. SUTTON: At 12 years old, you are pretty susceptible.
TERRELL: Yes, Dr. Drew. Yes.
LT. SUTTON: But the fact of the matter is that she learned and she grew and she used her skills, if you will, to further her prostitution. She is
very, very well aware of what she did. The fact that --
SEDAGHATFAR: She is still doing it. She is gloating about it.
PINSKY: One at a time.
LT. SUTTON: I am not making her a monster.
TERRELL: You are turning into the Frankenstein monster.
LT. SUTTON: I worked vice for a substantial period of time. And I know that prostitutes, they are not all bad people. It is people who --
TERRELL: Oh my God. We are spending so much time on this girl and we are ignoring the 30 cops, the bad, dirty cops.
LALAMA: Yes. Well, that is true. I agree with Leo.
TERRELL: Yes. This is a shameful act to attack a woman.
PINSKY: Leo, shame on us. Shame on us.
TERRELL: Yes. Thank you.
PINSKY: Shame on us, Leo?
TERRELL: Yes.
PINSKY: Shame on us.
TERRELL: Starting with you, Dr. Drew. I want you to help her.
TERRELL: All right. We are going to leave it with that. We are trying to but we cannot seem to get there.
Next up, Johnny Manziel, is he going to be sober? He says he is headed to treatment after one last blast tonight. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COY WIRE, FORMER NFLPLAYER/CNN SPORTS ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Champagne bottle, rolling with entourages, girls. He is going to club even after
being told to straighten up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNEELISE GOETZ, ATTORNEY: Battery or assault charges for allegedly hitting his ex-girlfriend. Allegedly being in fights in Vegas clubs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: $32,000 in damages.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: We are partying with Johnny Manziel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOETZ: This guy is in downward spiral.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Who knows if he will be alive to handle any trials here, because at the rate that he is going, his days are numbered.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Johnny Manziel, is he the comeback kid? The former NFL quarterback who has been partying in Mexico all week. He tells TMZ sports
he is going to try to get sober tomorrow, July 1st. He is determined to return to the NFL.
I, myself, will be on "Good Morning America" tomorrow morning about 7:00 or 7:30 talking about it. Back with Anahita, Leo, Cheryl and Pat. Now, the
Cleveland Browns cut Manziel after two rough seasons. He is a free agent.
Nobody seems to want him. And just today NFL sources told TMZ Sports that Manziel will be suspended for the first four games of the 2016 season for
violating the league substance abuse policy.
Now, if by some miracle he gets picked up, say next year, he will be forced to sit out still four games. Now, my question, Cheryl, is a four-game
suspension properly or sufficiently motivating for somebody with this kind of addiction?
[19:50:00] ARUTT: Dr. Drew, this kind of addiction is way more severe than a four-game suspension could possibly touch. This would take a year
or possibly longer for him to really get serious and get the kind of treatment that will pull him out of this. And he would need to take
responsibility for himself and I am not hearing him doing that.
PINSKY: It is funny. Earlier people are harsher than me, I was saying six months, but I would go for a year for sure. So if he says, he goes into
treatment tomorrow and you start hearing him say that he is going to sit out the season, well, that maybe, maybe, that is somebody that has a
chance. On the phone, Todd Marinovich. He is a retired NFL player, also a recovering addict, himself. This story is very familiar, Todd, to you, is
it not?
(LAUGHING)
TODD MARINOVICH, RETIRED NFL PLAYER, FMR. DRUG ADDICT: Yes, it is. Dr. Dew, it has been a while since I have been on your show.
PINSKY: It has been a while. What do we do with this guy? What do you think needs to be done?
MARINOVICH: Wow. When you are doing a little recap earlier, I was listening, and I have been there. I do not envy the situation at all. It
is tough to go through something like this as a human being, in general, but when it is public knowledge and news all over the country, all over the
world, you can imagine how difficult it is.
PINSKY: Todd, my fear, and I want to know if you feel this way too, sort of looking at him go through this and all this and knowing how sort of
unrestrained this can become, I am really afraid that this guy is going to kill, going to die somehow or maybe kill somebody else.
MARINOVICH: And that is where I have the same thoughts and feelings, because when you say Johnny Manziel, I think of the human being because of
my situation. I was looked at -- and when you are an athlete or entertainer or what have you, it is looked at as a name and not the person.
We are talking about a son -- and a parenter -- I can only imagine the parents. I have two kids that I am with right now. It would be
devastating. So I pray for the family, because there is no lot you can do as you know.
PINSKY: Yes. It is crazy. People would ask, "What would you do?" The reality is you cannot do much, but there are some things you can do. Now,
you mention the family, Todd.
The father told ESPN, quote, "He is a druggie. It is not a secret, but he is a druggie. I do not know what to say other than my son is a druggie.
He needs help. The system failed. I had him in rehab. He escaped and the doctors let him go."
And, Todd, back to your point. We are not allowed to hold people against their will and you cannot make somebody want to get sober. That is the
deep conundrum in addiction.
MARINOVICH: Yes. And I experienced that exact thing. My family and friends wanted more than -- that the person or more than I did and nothing
is going to take place until there is a deep commitment and willingness. And without wiliness, you cannot really even begin recovery. And I have
been talking about football is almost asinine.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: No. I can see the funny in it, but unfortunately, because he is in and the NFL is in it with him, they do not see it. It is funny and that
it is tragic. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: We have been talking about Johnny Manziel, the former NFL quarterback. He is vowed to get sober. He is planning a comeback. I
will, again, I have more to say about this tomorrow morning on "Good Morning America."
Back with Anahita, Leo, Cheryl, Pat and Todd. Manziel`s father also told ESPN, quote, "He has more money than me. He can outrun me." Like I said,
there are two things that are going to happen. He is either going to die or he is going to figure out that he needs help.
It is one of the two, but we have done everything we can do. Life goes on. You cannot just chase somebody. He is not willing to listen. The story is
not going to change. I mean, I hate to say it, but I hope you goes to jail. I mean that would be the best place for him.
Todd, conundrums about addiction is that if we could just hold people against their will for a while, we would end up in much better outcomes,
but unfortunately, we will have to wait until they either die, end up in an insane asylum or in prison.
LALAMA: You know, covering law and covering celebrities and the law over many years -- I was just saying to a colleague of mine that when young
people are suddenly in trenched in riches and popularity and celebrity and they have nothing but yes people around them. You are the expert, Dr.
Drew, but it seems to me, that only makes it worse.
PINSKY: Yes.
LALAMA: Because they have this entitlement in them.
PINSKY: Right.
LALAMA: And Todd, hats off to Todd, by the way. What a class act Todd is.
PINSKY: He is great.
LALAMA: But I am from Ohio and we had such high hopes for this guy. And I am crestfallen for him on his own level and for us.
PINSKY: And as Todd said, his family. They are the ones who really suffers.
LALAMA: Yes. Yes.
PINSKY: My addict friends who are in recovery now looked back at their diseases say, "Geez, I was just loaded, but my family was really
suffering." Leo, one of the frustrating parts about this, we cannot hold people against their will. You think that will ever change?
TERRELL: No, it is not going to change, because we are a country that believes in liberty and freedom; and so therefore, I do not want the one
being held behind bars. But I am a little disappoint that Todd, he went through it for years. So it is very difficult for me to just say, "Hey,
look, hold this guy" and people should be upset. Todd took years.
PINSKY: Yes. Is Todd still there?
TERRELL: So expect Manziel to go through there --
PINSKY: Hang on. Is Todd still there?
(LAUGHING)
MARINOVICH: Yes.
PINSKY: It takes what it takes.
TERRELL: Todd, how long did it take you?
PINSKY: HANG on Leo.
TERRELL: How long did it take you?
MARINOVICH: That is a completely valid statement. And I appreciate that, because without my friends and loving family around me that had patience
with me, I would not be sober today. I would probably be lucky if I would be alive, and it is something that was extremely like you guys mentioned
for somebody in athletics to surrender, surrender in athletic is to lose and surrender in recovery is a necessity.
PINSKY: There you go. Todd, we got to leave it there. I do appreciate your participation. Thank you, panel. Nancy Grace, up next.
[20:00:00]
END
