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Dr. Drew
Outrage Over Alton Sterling`s Death By Cop. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired July 06, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LISA BLOOM, HLN: I`m Lisa Bloom sitting in tonight for Dr. Drew.
Outrage over the violent death of a black man shot and killed by police in Baton Rouge, the final moments of Alton Sterling`s life caught on cellphone
video. I`ve got to warn you this video is graphic and disturbing. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get on the ground. Get on the ground.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They shot him?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh my God.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLOOM: How awful is it to see that? A man shot and killed on video by police. I don`t know about you, I saw that for the first time, very late
last night on social media right before I was going to sleep. I took one more check and to see that, it just made me absolutely sick. There is a
lot to talk about here.
Joining me is Areva Martin, Attorney, Bradford Cohen, Attorney via Skype, John Cardillo, former NYPD Officer and Segun Oduolowu, Social Commentator.
So new this hour, we have different angle of the same police shooting of Alton Sterling. This is from the Daily Beast. And I want you to see this
second video. This one also is graphic and then I want to hear what my panel thinks of it. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CROSSTALK)
(OFF-MIC)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s still moving.
BLOOM: All right, let`s listen to what dispatchers are telling officers as they arrived on the scene.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Copy, suspicious code two at 2100 North Forster across from Fairfield, Selling CDs on the corner. Gun in his pocket. He
pulled the gun on the complainant and told him, he couldn`t be around There.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLOOM: Hey, so, John, let me go to you. We heard there the dispatcher say this is a man with a gun and he`s threatening people outside of the
convenient store. Do officers respond differently when they believed that somebody is armed?
JOHN CARDILLO, FORMER NYPD OFFICER: Absolutely. I would say, in term of priorities and emergency response, that`s a gun run, we call it a gun
running law enforcement. It would be second only, two officers or an innocent screaming radio or the telephone that they were being imminently
attacked. So you`re approaching at very high tactical level of alertness and you`re expecting the worse.
BLOOM: OK. But, Areva, help me out, that maybe true that he`s on high alert and starring up that he`s on high alert. But does that change what
happened that we saw in the video?
Alton Sterling, and I think it is important to say people`s name, Alton Sterling is down. He`s got two police officers on top of him. I don`t see
him in either video reaching for a gun and the second video after he`s shot in the chest, you can see his hands is moving down but he`s been already
been shot at that point.
AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY: I think it`s important to know that not only to those videos not show us Alton Sterling being aggressive in anyway. There
was an eye witness to this.
So this is a case where we not only we have this disturbing video but we also have the owner of the store who knew Alton Sterling very well. And he
has talked to the media, he`s talked to the police apparently. And he`s telling a story of a man who was not aggressive, who was not charging
towards the police and who was simply trying to figure out why the police were coming at him and tackling him.
So when you listen to these store owners and you look at the police, it doesn`t appear for any justification for the level of force that was used
to kill Alton Sterling It`s just another shocking video of a black man shot by white cops.
BLOOM: And let`s go to that because we have that. The store owner that Areva was just talking about who witnessed the shooting said he did not see
the gun in Alton Sterling`s hand. Take a look.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was the gun visible when they shot him?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not at all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And so, when do the cop gun become visible?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After the cop went inside his pocket.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So the cop went in his pocket.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They thought it`s a gun ...
(OFF-MIC)
BLOOM: All right. So let`s put this altogether. Bradford, it is early and we want everything to have a fair shot at this. We don`t know the
police officer`s side. There maybe more video. There should be video I think from the convenient store. There maybe video from the dashcam on the
police car. We understand there may have been a problem with the cameras on the police officer themselves, but there maybe more coming.
Put it altogether right now. This certainly looks very bad for the police officer especially the one that pulled the gun and shot this man at
pointblank range.
BRADFORD COHEN: ATTORNEY: Yeah. I mean, obviously, the video does not look very good for these police officers. What`s also interesting is, if
you slow the video down from one of the angles. You can see the weapon, it looks it has a clip on it. It`s almost like a pen, like the clip on a pen.
And it looks like it`s clipped to his pocket. And that is -- there`s a gun that has a clip like that.
It`s very difficult to get it out of your pocket. And that clearly shows that he didn`t have it in his hand when they were doing this. And I don`t
that the accusation. I think officers thought he was going for the gun maybe, but again, on that video, it doesn`t show that he`s going for the
gun.
The angle maybe wrong, and there maybe another angle that shows his hands moving towards his pocket. And if you`re a police officer, even if your
hand and I`m sure the officer that used to be with NYPD will say the same thing.
If they`re even going towards a gun in their pocket, they`re going to take, you know, dangerous action and in this case deadly action even if they are
reaching for that gun. So until we see other angles, I mean, I`m not saying this video is horrible, this video looks very bad. But for the
officer to say "gun, gun, gun," there must be something that provoke that language from the officer.
BLOOM: OK. But, Segun Oduolowu, do we have different standards for black and white people in America? Because it seems to me that police are able
to take white Americans alive in case after case after case, and we see Tamir Rice, we see John Crawford. I mean, we see Sandra Bland over and
over again. American either killed by police, dying in police custody. I could take the rest of the show just naming the names. I mean, clearly
there is a racial issue here, is there?
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Oh, there is a clear double standard. And I think you`ve touched on it before. A white kid in college can be
convicted of raping a girl serve six months and a black kid in college can be wrongfully convicted and serve five years.
So, please, don`t even let anyone tell you that racism is not a big deal in American. And in the state of Louisiana, there is a right to carry --
that`s a right to carry state so, him, having a gun is actually his right to have a gun.
CARDILLO: No, it isn`t, Segun.
ODUOLOWU: Actually, yes it is.
CARDILLO: No, it`s not. If he`s convicted, no it`s not.
ODUOLOWU: Hold on a second.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: Well, let`s not get into that because I don`t think relevant at this point. The question is -- hold on. The question is what the police
saw in the moment, what they knew in the moment, whether they are endangered in the moment. And we`re going to come back and talk about all
of that after this. We`re going to continue the conversation.
And later on in the show, the mysterious murder of a fitness this instructor, why has her killer, this person you are looking at in this
video been caught back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am calling on anybody in the city with any backbone to arrest those two officers.
CARL DABADIE, CHIEF OF POLICE BATON ROUGE: We want to know what happened and we want to know the truth and we want to get to the bottom of it. As
chief, I am accountable for everything that my guys ...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there something specifically on the video that troubles you?
DABADIE: The fact that someone got shot.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But certainly the footage that I observed, the video that was made available. I have very serious concern. The video is
disturbing to say the least.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody out here they feel hurt. They feel like they lost a brother or a family. We are out here showing support for a brother
who died for no reason.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank god for YouTube and thank god for iPhone because without the iPhones, they might have gotten away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLOOM: Well, I am Lisa Bloom, I`m a civil rights lawyer at the Bloom Firm. I handle a lot of police excessive force cases. This is a topic near and
dear to my heart. I`m also legal analyst at Abo.com. And I`m siting in for Dr. Drew tonight.
So at this point, let me update you. The feds have taken over this investigation. That`s the Department of Justice. But the mayor of Baton
Rouge is defending his internal investigation into the shooting. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIP HOLDEN, MAYOR OF BATON ROUGE: So you find people want to jump in and everybody wants to make a political statement, including the Justice
Department. You know, we got Congressman from you all have said, "Well, I am calling for a full investigation." Well, we have already been working
on that. It is not like we need to be hand held and spoon fed when it comes down to doing what`s right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLOOM: Hand held and spoon fed, all right. We`re back with our Areva, Branford, John and Segun.
Areva, can the feds be trusted to do what`s right here?
MARTIN: Well, I think the important thing, Lisa, is that there`s no trust at the local level. We should put this case in the context of what`s going
on in Baton Rouge. This isn`t the only case where police have been accused of excessive force. There is a case right now pending in federal court in
that community where police officers have been accused of excessive force.
And like you, I am a civil rights lawyer who have been representing (inaudible) in these cases for over two decades. And this violence against
African-American men, it`s not new. What`s new is the technology, what`s new is the cellphones and the ability to capture this on tape.
And I think that such distrust in the community, not just with the local policing authorities, but some with respect to the feds. On my social
media account today, people are saying, "We don`t even trust the Department of Justice to go in and to prosecute cops who`ve executed people like we`ve
seen in this video."
BLOOM: Well, let me tell you something. Trayvon Martin, the feds did not do anything, Mike Brown, the feds did not do anything. I mean, the list
goes on and on. I sure would like to say, I trust the U.S. Department of Justice to do what`s right when we have already with the 24 hours, two
cellphone videos of police officers taking a gun and shooting and killing a man.
But I don`t know. I mean, we`re going to have to wait and see what the Baton Rouge Police Department has investigated 35 use of forced cases in
2014. And guess how many resulted in charges against police officers involved, none. Zero.
And, Bradford, in 2015, there were over 1,000 police shootings, killings of Americans nationwide, not a single one resulted in the conviction of a
police officer.
COHEN: Yeah. And, you know, that`s what leads to the distrust of police officers. And it`s not only that. It`s also, you know, where is the
outrage when you clearly see on video and I forgot the -- I don`t know the young man`s name but where the officer shot a guy who was running away from
him and shot him in the back a couple of times, where is the outrage from the police of those type of videos, like that`s why people don`t trust
police.
Because there`s no cop coming out saying, "Wow, that`s a horrible -- I can`t believe that. That is a horrible video." Maybe X cops but there`s
no current cop that would come out and say, "That`s an amazing video. That video is disgusting where the guy was running away from him and he was shot
five times in the back."
And that`s why people don`t trust police right now and you see that in every case. You know, as a defense attorney, you know, it is prevailing.
It used to be that a cop would take the stand and you have jury and believe everything a cop says. Now, it is just the opposite.
Cops take the stand and if I start cross-examining them, most jurors are shaking their heads like they know that this cop is not telling the truth.
BLOOM: Well, John Cardillo, let`s go to you on that, because I don`t want to broad-brush, polices are all good or all bad. It`s a big group of
people just like lawyers, just like talk show hosts. There`s good ones, there`s bad ones. You can be pro-police and want to support the police and
love the police and at the same time say the bad ones got to go, right?
CARDILLO: Yeah. Look, I have to disagree with Bradford. I was one of the most vocal critics of Officer Slager who shot Walter Scott. That was the
case where Mr. Scott was running way and was shot. I said, from day one, "He should be convicted."
COHEN: Bur you resign.
CARDILLO: Hold on. First of all, I am actually -- I hold current standards in the state of Florida, so not actually. And second of all,
every police officer I spoke to far maybe three felt the same way. It was a black guy on police especially at last shot he fired.
But let me go back to something about this case is, there have been some bad information disseminated here on the show. Number one, the FBI did a
study, 2003 to 2011, a deadly force incident. Police in that time period used deadly force around 4,000 times. They killed 2,000 whites and 1,000
blacks, two times the amount of whites were killed.
BLOOM: OK. But that out of -- with all due respect, John.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: Hold on. Hold on. Let me speak, please. I`m guest hosting tonight. I need to get a word in, OK.
The problem with that data is, that was self-reported by the police department. And lot of police department didn`t report ...
CARDILLO: Hold on ...
(Off-Mic)
BLOOM: ... they weren`t required to report. And last year, 2015, was the first time we had good data, why? Because the Washington Post and the
Guardian did an actual count for the first time in America and how many people were killed by police and it was over 1,000.
BLOOM: Lisa, that`s not true, your statement is factually inaccurate. Only two -- right now, the FBI, let me finish this is factual data, FBI
data.
Currently, when that report was done, the 98 plus percent of department reported through the FBI. The only one they didn`t were the smallest ones
that didn`t have the budget but their crime stats were negligible. In other words, they wouldn`t have changed the numbers.
BLOOM: OK. Well, listen, I don`t have to spend the whole show arguing about the numbers. But it`s well documented where they weren`t all counted
because many of the police department didn`t even accurately count. Segun?
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: I mean, like, this is -- we, black people make up 14 percent of the population. If you shot a thousand of us, then yes, black people are
being disproportionately killed by cops.
CARDILLO: Hold on. Segun.
ODUOLOWU: Hold on, I let you speak, John.
CARDILLO: Go ahead. Go ahead.
ODUOLOWU: There have been 588 police shootings that resulted in deaths this year. The majority, disproportionally have been of people of color.
So you can quote any number you want but I never see white people being executed on camera like I do black people.
And, Lisa, had already quoted name after name after name, of black people that have been killed, pointblank range. We just talked about a guy
running away from a cop got shot in the back. What we didn`t follow with this that the cop then try to plant a weapon.
This case, he shot at pointblank range. And before you interrupt with me the first time, what I was saying is, in a state that has a right to carry,
the cops when they get there, they don`t know if he`s legally allowed to carry a gun. So just tackle him and shooting him a pointblank range, you
can`t as a have a current cop or former cop tell me that that is sound police procedure.
BLOOM: OK. I got to get this break-in but is just want to say this before the break. Hang on, John, we`re going to have more after the break.
But I personally have been to several Black Lives Matter demonstrations. I think it is very important that people of my skin color joining in with the
Black Lives Matter movement. If you feel strongly about this, if you`re sick of seeing African-Americans gunned down in our streets by police, if
you`re sick of seeing these videos. I encourage you to get out there and join with our African-American brothers and sisters because they are only
14 percent of the population. And they shouldn`t be required to bear this burden all alone, all right.
Next, I want you to see this, Alton Sterling`s grieving family speaking out. You got to see this, the father and the son and the brother that they
knew. And later, a murder mystery, is this person a killer or did he or maybe she bludgeon Missy Bevers to death just minutes after this video was
recorded. We`ll be back right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUINYETTA MCMILLON, MOTHER OF ALTON STERLING`S OLDEST SON: The individual involved in his murder, took away a man with children who dependent upon
their daddy on a day-to-day basis. My son is not the youngest. He`s the oldest of his siblings. He`s 15 years old.
He has to watch this, this is clear all over ...
(OFF-MIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLOOM: Alton Sterling`s 15-year-old son Cameron sobbed uncontrollably as his mother spoke publicly today.
Back with Areva, Bradford and John, and joining us Tiffanie Davis Henry, Psychotherapist. Tiffanie, I think that was one of the more heartbreaking
things I have ever seen, a 15-year-old boy, he`s a size of an grown man but he still a kid, obviously he is just overcome with grief at the sudden
killing of his father.
Tell us about the grieving process in a case like this and how he can, I don`t want to say, reach closure because I don`t really believe in that,
but he can keep putting one foot in front of the other?
TIFFANIE DAVIS HENRY, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: I think closure is kind of a long way off, Lisa.
This kid, his family and the extended family members and the general public were all mourning his loss, were all grieving his loss tonight. And the
grieving process is different for everybody as you saw with him. He`s struggling with the after math of what has happened and probably in
shocked. But I want to encourage anybody that`s involved in this case and involved in any of these shootings that we`ve seen, you have every right to
feel exactly what you are feeling whether that`s anger, whether that`s despair, whether that`s depression, whether that`s frustration. Whatever
it is, all of those emotions have warranted.
BLOOM: And, John, when we talk about police shooting cases, we talk about the police being trained to eliminate the threat or to shoot center mass as
if they are not shooting real human beings, as if they are not taking a father from a family, a husband from a family. In my view, this is what
these cases should be about. The grieving family members and police should be trained to do everything possible to avoid taking a life. But I don`t
think police are really trained that way, are they, John?
CARDILLO: Well, look, I mean, they are. I mean, you have to understand that you can only train police officers to a certain degree, right, their
budgets, their time.
But with regards to tactical training gotten better. These situations, Lisa, are very volatile. Let me also say, my heart aches for that little
boy. No 15-year-old should ever have to feel that level of pain in losing a parent no matter what the parent did. But the police had a split second
in making a decision and we`re getting hung up in the fact that he was on the ground, et cetera.
I don`t need range motion to fire a weapon. All I really need is my risk to be able to rotate and my finger to be able to pull the trigger. And I
do feel that -- in this one case, I encouraged the DOJ investigation because I think it is going to require that for the facts to come out.
I don`t see any other way, the police could have acted. You have a violent guy with a prior felony history, trying to reach into his pocket for that
gun. I disagree with, Bradford here. I have one of those clips on one of the guns I carry. It is easy to remove the gun with that clip, very
efficient.
They did all they could. They gave this guy multiple commands, they did all they could be to get into comply. He kept reaching for that gun.
BLOOM: Well, I just don`t see that on the video. I am sorry, the evidence might show that in some future date but it doesn`t show it today. And,
Areva, let me go to you to a civil rights activist and as a mom, what would you say to this 15-year-old grieving son who`s losing control of his
emotions at the press conference, of course, because he`s a human being and he just lost his daddy, what would you say to him?
MARTN: I have to say to him, Lisa, that the my heard bleeds to for him and the reality is as African-American man, young boy, this could happen to
him. That`s the reality that we are dealing with whether you are a lawyer or a doctor, a 15-year-old kid, a 17-year-old like Trayvon Martin, African-
American men feel like their on the siege by police officers.
And I know all police officers aren`t bad, but we see these videos after videos after videos, and we watch this mom and we can go down a list of
mothers who have had to grieve for their husbands and their sons who had been shot by police. And something has to stop.
And when John talks about the split second, how come the split second isn`t about preserving life and deescalating the situation? We don`t see white
men and boys being treated the same way we see African-Americans treated in these situations. And until that changes there won`t be any trusts between
African-American men and boys and the police. And that`s the reality.
BLOOM: Yeah, and the statistics from 2015 are that young black men are shot by police at five times the rate at young white men. And the reason
for that is implicit racial bias. I wrote a book about it called "Suspicious Nation" after the death of Trayvon Martin and the injustice in
that case. And the fact is, whether we like it or not, whether we want to admit it or not, most of us, most of us of all races harbor implicit racial
biases, which means, if we`re a police officer we`re more likely to pull a gun on African-American males, especially, because we feel like we are
being threaten. And there`s a lot of video simulations that prove this.
And John, I think, one of the most important reforms we need is anti-racial bias training in police department. It is being done in some places, it`s
being done effectively to help us get past the racial bias that so many people carry around whether they wanted to admit it or not.
JOHN CARDILLO, FORMER NYPD OFFICER: Look, I`m all for any training that more equally applies justice. You won`t get an argument there. But
there`s another important status as well. While you are right, young black men are shot five times more by the police than young black men at the same
ages, young black men 18 to 24 committing murder at a rate of 10 times higher than young white men in the same age.
BLOOM: That`s an interesting fact but it`s not relevant here because Alton Sterling...
CARDILLO: It is relevant.
BLOOM: ... he`s not a murderer, he`s not accused of murder or really even ...
CARDILLO: But it is relevant.
BLOOM: ... he`s a guy selling C.D.s in front of a convenient store.
CARDILLO: But Lisa ...
BLOOM: No I`m sorry, but the convenient store owner said, it was OK with him that he was selling ...
CARDILLO: But that`s not what I am talking about ...
BLOOM: Eric Garner ...
CARDILLO: Let me finish my point.
BLOOM: OK, very quickly John.
CARDILLO: The cops are encountering young black male in violent situations more than young white males. So yes, they`re going to be more apprehensive
because the data bears ...
BLOOM: OK, but the preservation of human life has to be number one because we don`t want to see the next 15-years-old son weeping at a press
conference.
Up next, a mother and fitness instructor is murdered in a church, stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was a very loving mother of three and loved her husband very much.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say this person in black tactical gear killed Bevers, first breaking in the Creekside Church of Christ before she showed
up to teach an early fitness class.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is killed of multiple stabbed wounds to the head and the chest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe that she was targeted. That`s my opinion.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Money problems and extramarital affairs were a problem according to the police affidavit. Police confirmed Bevers` husband
Brandon knew about her infidelity in the relationship and he told police about it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators hope someone will recognize the person who walked or stature ...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLOOM: It`s been 11 weeks since Missy Bevers was stabbed to death in a church. The suspected killer was recorded on surveillance video just
minutes before, and we are staying on this case, refusing to let it to go cold. I`m Lisa Bloom, in for Dr. Drew tonight and we`re back with
Bradford, joining us is Carissa Kranz, former prosecutor, and Steve Moore, retired FBI agent. And Missy`s family wants answers, joining us by phone,
a very special guest, Missy`s sister-in-law, Christie Stout.
And Christie, thank you so much for joining us and our condolences to you. It`s been almost three months since Missy`s murder and there are still no
suspects even though there is that video tape. So, what`s going through your head at this point?
CHRISTIE STOUT, MISSY`S SISTER-IN-LAW: Well, it is complete frustration and it`s just absolutely gut wrenching to know that they haven`t found
anyone yet and that no one had been held responsible. And, it`s also a little scary knowing is out there that did this and, you know, they`re
still on the loose.
BLOOM: So, as we look at this video, I am sure you probably watched it a hundred times, you know, people might think this is police coming in to
check out the murder, but in fact we believe this may very well be the killer. It`s a person dressed in a black tactical gear, head to toe, you
can`t tell if that`s male or female. Some people have speculated that the gate looks like the way a woman walks. What are your thoughts on that?
STOUT: When I first saw the footage it, initially I thought it was a woman when you very first see him turn that corner. They have this kind of
waddle or a sway like a woman. But then, you know, as time went on and I watched more of the video, they`re starting -- I don`t know move or things
that they do that may look a little bit more masculine and -- like putting a certain tool in their vest when they`re trying to tap open the door. And
it just looks -- something about it looks manly. Just kind of knowing where to put the tool in the vest like they`ve done it before almost.
BLOOM: Well, Steve Moore, to you. We always think that if police have a video of the suspect, they`re practically home free and yet, no leads, no
suspects at this point, what`s going on?
STEVE MOORE, SPECIAL AGENT, FBI, RETIRED: Well obviously, the person took great pain to not be recognized and that tells me that maybe that he could
-- would have been recognized had people seen him in the video, that it wouldn`t have been a stranger to these people. And, I think it indicates
to me -- it strengthens my belief that this was a targeted killing. I mean this person hasn`t been -- there`s been no similar incidents, nothing --
anybody in a police SWAT uniform. This seems to be a one-time thing and he or she knew where Missy was and to me, that sounds targeted.
BLOOM: And she was in a church, she was going to lead a 5:00 a.m. fitness class. So this is about 4:30 a.m. And, Christie, police reports are
saying that Missy may have had an affair. Did you know anything about that?
STOUT: I knew one that happened about a year and a half ago. That`s the one that I knew of. And, you know, when this thing first happened, that
was the first thing that went to my mind was, you know, did this have anything to do with an affair that she may have had another one, you know,
because -- a lot of people thought, you know, it certainly looked targeted and could an affair play a part in this?
BLOOM: So, Carissa, let me go to you. You and I both know that the way these investigations usually go down, as you start with the people closest
to the victim, husband, for example, boyfriend, and then the police have to move outward in the concentric circles, to friends, acquaintances, et
cetera. They got to rule out the people in the middle. What`s your theory as to what might have happened here?
CARISSA KRANZ, FORMER PROSECUTOR: That`s right Lisa, this person in some way has to be connected to the killer, must be connected. The extramarital
affairs, the probable cause affidavit, the financial problem, you have to follow motive. And motive is going to come down to, emotional issues and
money. We need to find out, is there a life insurance policy involved, was she worth -- who was she worth more dead to? Would it be too costly to get
a divorce, would there be a custody battle? Will a child support be an issue? Who would want her dead?
If there was an affair, was someone jealous? There`s a lot of things. The police need to look into social media, that weird LinkedIn message that`s
been brought up. Who is that? How is he related to her? Why were those messages deleted? That`s another thing we need to know.
BLOOM: Well, you`re absolutely right because there`s money problems, there`s cheating, there`s secrets. And we have to know what all of these
had to do with Missy`s murder. So that`s coming up next.
And then later, a daughter pleads guilty for planning to have her mother killed. But, it`s a very unusual case and did mom -- I hate to say this
but deserve to die? That`s really the defense. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLOOM: Missy Bevers was murdered in a church 11 weeks ago. The suspected killer was seen on this surveillance video dressed in full SWAT gear and
armed with a hammer, the murder weapon. I`m Lisa Bloom siting in for Dr. Drew tonight. And I`m back with Bradford, Carissa, Steve and Tiffanie.
So here`s what we know, take a look at this timeline Steve, especially, I want to ask you about this. So at 3:50 a.m., I mean right in the dead of
night, the intruder is seen on surveillance video roaming the halls of the church. At 4:20 a.m., Missy enters the church because she`s going to teach
that early morning fitness class. At 4:30 a.m. the first participant arrives for Missy`s class, getting there early, and at 5:00 a.m., two 911
calls are made to the police.
BLOOM: So, wow, you know, Steve, it seems to me that there was just this little narrow window of time, really between 4:20 a.m. when Missy arrived
and 4:35 a.m. when somebody arrived for the class. So just 15 minutes that this killer had to commit this horrific killing.
MOORE: Isn`t that interesting? It`s interesting to me that 3:50 on a Monday morning a church gets burglarized. I mean, it doesn`t happen a lot.
And if you think you`re going to burglarize a church at 3:50 in the morning, the only reason I can think is get the offerings from the Sunday
before but he didn`t seem to be interested in anything other than looking for something or somebody. That`s just screams targeting. And the fact,
he finished what he did and he left immediately.
BLOOM: Yeah, I think that is pretty clear that she was targeted. This person came to commit a murder, dressed in full gear, probably disposed off
shortly there after.
And her husband, as we say you got to start with the husband, but he has an alibi. He was completely out of the state, on a fishing trip at the time
of this horrific murder, and here`s what he told reporters when asked if he was a suspect.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have police at any time indicated you were a suspect?
BRANDON BEVERS, MISSY`S HUSBAND: Never. Well, I mean I`m part of the process, OK? I am part of the process of elimination. They start from
within and they work their way out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are still.
BEVERS: Everybody is a suspect, OK? Everybody is suspect.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the real world, everybody is a suspect until that person is caught, OK? If he wasn`t a suspect until that person is caught
they wouldn`t be doing their job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLOOM: Bradford, we have 10 seconds, but what do you make of the husband?
BRADFORD COHEN, ATTORNEY: I think he`s telling the truth. I think what`s also interesting on that video, I think why they are waddling is because
those shoes are bigger than their feet. I honestly think that it is a woman. It`s unusual because a woman usually doesn`t use that type of
weapon to commit a murder. But, certainly it`s someone that`s been to the church before, that knows there`s video in the church, they were very
concerned with it. It`s definitely going to be someone that she knows.
BLOOM: Everybody is possible and we are going to stay on this.
Coming up next, the tragic end for a daughter, going to prison and the abusive mother she plotted to kill. There`s a lot of twists in this case.
We`re back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She plotted the murder of her own mother, even copped to it. Yet Gypsy Blanchard will serve just 10 years in prison. What led
up to the killing however might explain the seemingly short sentence. Gypsy`s mother Dee Dee abused her from the time she was a child, forcing
her to fake being handicapped and ride in a wheelchair. The girl stopped going to school after second grade.
Police say Dee Dee used her daughter to scam people and commit fraud. Gypsy`s lawyer says Dee Dee gave her medicine she didn`t need and subjected
her to unnecessary medical procedures. On June 14th, 2015, Dee Dee was found stabbed to death in her home. Gypsy and her boyfriend Nicholas
Godejohn were arrested. Police said he committed the murder after she gave him the knife and asked him to do it. Nicholas will be tried for murder in
November.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLOOM: And an update on a story we`ve been covering. Gypsy pleaded guilty to second-degree murder. I`m Lisa Bloom back with Bradford, Carissa and
Tiffanie, and I`ve got some details about the abuse, the frauds and the murder. And it`s quite a story but, Bradford, 10 years for intentionally
taking the life of her mother under these horrific circumstances, fair sentence?
COHEN: I think it`s very fair. I think the prosecutor really looked at -- what I`m worried about is that the boyfriend is really going to get
screwed. But, I think it`s very fair for her because I think that she was subjected to all kinds of torture. Now granted, she wasn`t threatened --
life threatening, like this isn`t like a beaten wife syndrome. But when you`re tortured from the time you`re 2 years old until you`re 20 something
years old, where you`re forced to stay inside, you`re forced to do certain things that you don`t want to do, and this isn`t just regular things,
staying in a wheelchair, just weird stuff like that.
I think emotionally it has a toll on the person. What I`m worried about is, when she goes to prison she`s going to come out worse than she went in
because there`s no reason for rehabilitation in this matter.
BLOOM: Yep, they don`t rehabilitate anymore, they don`t even try in our prisons. But you know what? Everybody got a breaking point, you abuse
someone in these sick ways over and over and over again, eventually they`re going to break. And I think that`s what the judge is taking into account
on this relatively light sentence. I might even have given her a lighter sentence because Gypsy was essentially held captive ...
COHEN: Did Lisa Bloom say a lighter sentence?
BLOOM: ... by her mother, from the time she was very young she wasn`t allowed to spend time with other people. That`s classic abuse stuff. She
says she didn`t attend school after the second grade. Her lawyer says kindergarten. And she was forced into a wheelchair telling people she had
muscular dystrophy and leukemia. Her mother made her take medication that made her teeth fall out, and had to undergo unnecessary medical procedures.
So, Tiffanie, put this together for us. Her trauma is obvious. What is going on with this mother that would do such a thing to her own flesh and
blood?
TIFFANIE DAVIS HENRY, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well this is pretty classic case of Munchausen by proxy, and that is where the abuser seems to get some sort of
benefit from keeping someone sick or injured or hurt. She was making her take medication that she didn`t need, making her sick essentially, maybe
even hurting her in some way to get some sort of attention or benefit, whether that financial gain. We know that Habitat for Humanity even built
a house. We know that she did get a lot of financial resources, sympathy, attention from this, and that probably all fed into her need to continue to
keep her daughter sick and sheltered.
BLOOM: OK, so Carissa, let`s talk about the boyfriend for a minute, because Gypsy allegedly told her boyfriend to kill mom. The boyfriend did.
Gypsy has now pleaded guilty to second-degree murder. We have some sympathy for her or we can understand the mental issues that she was going
through after all that abuse. But the boyfriend, he wasn`t subjected to any of that, what`s his defense in this case?
STOUT: Well, he was told to do it by her and who knows what kind of duress or their situation is. We need more information about the social media
interaction. I believe they met online on a Christian dating website.
BLOOM: Right.
STOUT: But I do have to jump back and agree with you. I actually would have given her a lighter sentence. I was a former prosecutor, and
prosecutors are charged to seek justice. And, in this case with two decade of abuse, this child was four-years old. She has essentially gone from one
prison to another.
BLOOM: Well I agree with you, but she`s 24-years-old now, right? We can`t give her a pass for taking a life because she did have other alternatives
rather than taking a life, right? So she`s got to have some sentence, but Carissa what sentence would you give her?
STOUT: As a prosecutor, I might have gotten her to psychiatric help instead of prison.
BLOOM: Really?
STOUT: Yeah, I do not think prison is going to solve the problem.
COHEN: God, I need her on my cases.
BLOOM: Bradford, what would you have given her? Just quickly.
COHEN: Listen, I think she deserves prison but I think there needs to be some rehabilitation. I mean we don`t even do that in prison anymore. So,
your hands are tied as a prosecutor. You want to give them some sort of punishment but you want to give them some sort of rehab, but you can`t just
put her in a physiatric because it`s not that type of defense.
BLOOM: Yeah, I say one to three years. She`s already been through hell. She does need to be punished. We cannot allow somebody to get away with
murder. But this is a girl who was so abused and probably saw no light at the end of the tunnel and this is the only thing she could think of, and
frankly I`m not afraid of her living next to me.
Thank you so much for watching tonight. I`ll see you tomorrow. Nancy Grace is coming up next.
END
