Return to Transcripts main page
Dr. Drew
Protest Over Police Use of Deadly Force. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired July 07, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LISA BLOOM, HLN ANCHOR: I`m Lisa Bloom sitting in for Dr. Drew tonight. And we are looking at the use of deadly force and the resulting outrage.
You are now watching protesters live in New York City peacefully taking to the streets to express their concern about the two black men who have been
killed by police officers within 48 hours both involving videos. The latest incident was in suburban st. Paul, Minnesota on Wednesday. The
immediate after math of this one, it was so different because it was streamed live on Facebook by the victim`s fiancee. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DIAMOND REYNOLDS, PHILANDO CASTILE`S FIANCEE: Stay with me. We got pulled over for a busted tail light in the back and the police (inaudible). He is
covered. He killed my boyfriend. He`s licensed -- to carried to -- he`s licensed to carry. He was trying to get out his ID and his wallet out his
pocket and he let the officer know that he was -- he had a fire arm and he was reaching for his wallet. And the officer shot him in his arm. We`re
waiting for a back.
I will, sir, no worries. I will (inaudible). He just shot his arm off. We got pulled over on Larpenteur.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I told him not to reach for it. I told him to get his hand open.
REYNOLDS: You told him to get his ID, sir, his driver`s license. Oh my God, please don`t tell me he`s dead. Please don`t tell me my boyfriend
just went like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLOOM: The woman Diamond Reynolds stays remarkably calm in that moment and you can hear the police officer clearly agitated. I want to show you more
of this nine minute video which we have edited for time. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get the female passenger out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma`am exit the car right now with your hands up.
Let me see your hands. Exit now.
Keep them up. Keep them up.
REYNOLDS: Where`s my daughter? You got my daughter?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get on your knees. Get on your knees.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma`am you`re just being detained right now until we get this all sorted out. OK?
REYNOLDS: They threw my phone, Facebook. Please don`t tell me he`s gone.
Please, Jesus, no.
They shot him four times. He`s licensed to carry. We had a busted tail light and we had some weed in the car. That`s about it. It was a Chinese
police officer that shot him. Don`t be scared. My daughter just witnessed this. I can`t really do (inaudible) because they got me handcuffed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s OK, mommy.
REYNOLDS: I can`t believe they just did this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s OK. I`m right here with you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLOOM: This is what she had. This is what she had. She had a cell phone. This is what she had to broadcast to the world what was happening. And
surely the most horrific day of her life and she used it, and that`s why we`re all talking about it today.
Joining me, Don Lemon, CNN Anchor. Via Skype, Marc Lamont Hill. He`s a Political Commentator, Professor at Morehouse College. And the author of
"Nobody: Casualties of America`s War on the Vulnerable, from Ferguson to Flint and Beyond." A book, I need to read." Cheryl Dorsey, Retired LAPD
Sergeant and author of "Creation of a Manifesto: Black and Blue," and Spirit, psychotherapist.
So, Don Lemon, let me go to you because I know you had a conversation with your mother about this -- what`s been going on the last couple of days in
America. As so many of us had, can you tell us about that?
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. I`m more than happy to tell you about it. But I have one, you know, with my mom every time this happens, as I`m sure
Marc and anyone on this panel whose mother if they are lucky enough to still have their parents around, they have this conversation.
I happen to be from Baton Rouge, Louisiana, that`s my hometown where Mr. Sterling was killed. And I know, you know, what happens on the streets
there. My family - my nieces at least know him, not well, but they have bought CD`s and DVD`s from him. My sister was out at one of the memorials
today. But, this is a story that I always tell. And my mom always says, you know, she doesn`t -- she still worries about me because I don`t have to
really drive that much anymore because I live in New York City and there`s mass transportation and can hail a taxi. She still worries about me. But,
when I lived in Atlanta, I would have to drive to work -- drive home from work every single evening.
And my -- I would have to either call her on the way home or as soon as I got home so that she could make sure that I was in the house because she
was concerned about police stopping me. She was concerned about the kind of car that I drove. I was the only person of color on my particular
street and one of a few in my neighborhood.
Police officers used to stop me and say, what are you doing here? And I would look at them and say, what are you doing here? I live here. I pay
taxes for these roads. They didn`t like it, when I show them my ID but that`s the reality of it.
So, even as a man in his 40s, I would have to do that and had that sort of relationship with my mother who tried to be my guardian as a grown man.
That`s the kind of conversation you have with a black mother beyond, you know, adolescents and teens and in your 20s, even in your 40s. And I`m
sure Marc probably has similar stories.
BLOOM: And here you are at the top of your games, CNN anchor, but it doesn`t change. And you know what, Don? I think you are being charitable
when you say, you know, we all have these conversations. But let`s be honest, I don`t have those conversations in my family because my white skin
protects me because of white privilege. And until we all start talking about that, and frankly until white people start talking about this problem
that is an American problem, I think until we start joining in with our African-American brothers and sisters and saying enough is enough, that we
don`t want to have two Americas.
LEMON: Right.
BLOOM: We don`t want to have one that has to have these conversations and one that doesn`t. You know, we`re never going to overcome this problem.
Philando`s fiancee said the officer who shot and killed him was Asian. And March, let me go to you, just this factor into whether this was a racially
motivated shooting or -- how does this play out in your mind?
MARC LAMONT HILL, PROFESSOR, MOREHOUSE COLLEGE: When I say, the shooting is racially motivated when we talk about black death at the hand of state
power, I`m not concerned with the racial category that the officer occupies. You can be a black officer and discriminate. You can be an
Asian officer. You can be a black Latino, white Latino officer and discriminate. The issue is what happens when you see black bodies? Do
they conjure up up, a sense that there is a heightened level of danger, heightened level of fear. Do police begin to see weapons that aren`t there
or do they begin to see weapons being drawn when they`re still in the pocket? Do they begin to see criminals when you asked someone who actually
is a licensed gun owner?
This is a type of conjure up and it`s not just white people who have to deal with this. The thing about white supremacy is that it remains all of
our minds. All of us have to learn how to lose white supremacy. All of us have to learn to not be afraid of black bodies, Jesse Jackson once said,
that one of his greatest pieces of sadness is that when he walks down the street late at night, he is relieved when he feels somebody walking behind
him. He is relieved to see a white person. Now, Jesse Jackson one of the great civil rights leader of our time can say that. That means that all of
us have to struggle with this. That`s when I want a police department to be reformed, it`s not that I want a bunch of black people there, is that I
want a different mentality. I want a different culture. I want a different structure. Black people didn`t march to get beaten or shot by
white officers. We want everybody to have this kind of conversion.
BLOOM: You know that just makes me so profoundly sad, that quote from Jesse Jackson. And I know when I quoted it in my book, "Suspicion Nation,"
when I learned a lot about implicit racial bias. But it`s still just makes me so profoundly sad to think that even Jesse Jackson would feel that way
walking down the street, when we have a lot more to talk about on these terrible, terrible police shooting cases.
Coming up next, Philando Castile`s outreach, relatives are speaking out about the tragedy tonight. You want to hear their voices, they are here.
And later, new information about what led to the police killing of Alton Sterling in Baton Rouge, just a couple of days ago. Was he reaching for a
gun or not? Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s not right. It`s not right. These police should not be able to just bear arms on innocent people in front of kids. My
daughter will be forever scarred by what the police of Falcon Heights did to us. He took his last breath in front of us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLOOM: And I am Lisa Bloom, A Civil Rights Attorney at the Bloom Firm and Legal Analyst for Alton. And I`m sitting in for Dr. Drew tonight.
Philando Castile was a nutrition supervisor at a Montessori School for little kids in St. Paul. And his colleagues and the kids really, really
loved him. They`ve all been talking about him on social media today. His fiancee live streamed his death at the hands of police on Facebook. That`s
a first as far as I know.
I`m back with Don, Marc, Cheryl and Spirit. And I want you all to watch this video of a black female officer. She is clearly in agony expressing
herself about these killings.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please forgive me and you can deal at me if you get mad at me. If you are white and you work in a black community and you are
racist you need to be ashamed of yourself. You stood up there and took an oath. If this is not where you want to work at, you need to take your
behind somewhere else. If you are that officer, then no good in where you got a God complex, you are afraid of people that don`t look like you. You
have no business in that uniform. Take it off.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLOOM: You know what, she is mad. And I think we have a choice here. We can be upset and sad or we can be angry. And I think she is appropriately
angry frankly. And I think more of us need to get angry if we want to change this outcome of every day waking up to a new hashtag of a new person
who has been killed by police in America. Cheryl out to you, she called out racist cops. She said they have a god complex. Is that the problem?
CHERYL DORSEY, FORMER LAPD: Well, listen, we understand that, you know, these police officers when they look at someone like Mr. Castile, they
can`t relate. And I think that`s why this officer had no problem pulling his weapon and firing. Why was he dealing with a passenger in a vehicle
with a busted plate? His business -- a busted light -- his business was with the driver. He went to the passenger because he saw an opportunity.
He saw a black man who he wanted to engage, create an environment to use deadly force and did just that.
Now they want us to believe that something happened a few moments before on that video that make this all good. For me, there is nothing I could have
seen an hour earlier that would have made that shooting OK.
BLOOM: You know what, Cheryl? You make a very good point that I haven`t heard anybody else make and I`ve been watching all those all day which is,
yeah, you don`t normally ask for ID of the passenger in the car. And he was asked for his ID. And apparently he volunteered. Oh by the way, I
have a concealed carry. I`m just letting you know because I`m supposed to do that. Why ask for his ID?
DORSEY: Because he saw a male black and he saw an opportunity. I promise you if that had been a female passenger he would not have engaged her. And
so, it is not uncommon and unheard of for officers to engage and encounter a male black, pray to the warrant God that there is something in the system
where he can now hand this person to jail. And I think that`s what this officer was looking for.
BLOOM: Wow. Well, that is very scary if that is the truth. And, you know, Don, out to you. We`ve been talking about protests. One of the
things that drive me crazy is when people in the media certainly not you, not anybody here but calls peaceful demonstrations by African-Americans
riots. They are not riots when they`re peaceful. That`s not really understanding what the word riot is. But on the other hand, many people
are holding their breath out of concern that maybe the protests will not stay peaceful. Sometimes they haven`t like in Ferguson. Your thoughts?
LEMON: Yeah. I pray that they will stay peaceful. And I think that they mostly peaceful. You want to know what a riot is? You know, you see it
after a soccer game or, you know, the world cup or, you know, for hockey game. That`s when you see rioting, when you see, you know, a university
win a championship and people are turning over cars and burning stuffs, that`s a riot. When people are peacefully demonstrating and raising their
voices many times, that`s called protests. And that`s what America was built on. It`s part of our constitution.
So I pray and I hate to say that I pray that, you know, they will stay peaceful. I really do think this time that something has changed in
America. And I think that change is going to come. I think we`re in a place now where people are realizing, look, we have to deal with this. And
I say, look, I just said, I just had a conversation with Wolf Blitzer after the president spoke just moments ago. We are all Americans here. This is
an American problem.
BLOOM: Yes.
LEMON: This is not just an African-American problem. This is an American problem. And insanity is doing the same thing in expecting a different
outcome. Clearly this is not working. What`s happening with our police officers and within our communities is not working. So we all need to work
together as Americans to make it work.
BLOOM: Well, here, here. But I will also say something that you might not want to say. Which I don`t think white America cares enough about this
problem. I don`t think there is enough outcry in white America saying, this is not acceptable. This is not the America we want to live in. We
don`t want to have over 1,000 Americans gunned down by police every year when other countries have ten or four or eight. Other developed countries,
like Germany or France. We don`t want that kind of America. I think there is the perception that this is something that`s a black America problem.
And I guess the point that you`re trying to make that I feel so strongly about because I have litigated these cases for many, many years. I
represented the families, the grieving families, crying after a police shooting is that we have to pull together on this. And let`s not forget by
the way, the four-year-old little daughter, the four-year-old little girl of Diamond.
LEMON: In the car.
BLOOM: The fiancee of Philando who was in the car with mom throughout the ordeal. So, she said she was scared at first. But then at the end she
seems to be comforting her own mom.
And so Spirit, out to you, can you briefly tell us about the trauma that this little girl surely must be going through?
SPIRIT, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: No. I can`t do it briefly. There is -- it`s just no way possible because she is not even clear on what it is that she
has witnessed. Her life has changed. And it will never be the same. What has happened now is that we have destroyed not just her life, but every
other life of every other child who has never known what this kind of situation would bring. We have just ushered in a new generation of fear
and of racism and of hatred in this country.
BLOOM: And I want to talk more about that in the next block because there is fallout to this. And we may move on to another story tomorrow or next
week. But this little girl has to live with this for the rest of her life. This family, this community has to live with this for the rest of their
life.
Coming up next, I want to go back to the Baton Rouge case that was from two days ago. Who made the 911 call that resulted in this man`s death, Alton
Sterling`s death? Well, we have the answer now and why the caller felt threatened.
And later, we want to know what it is like raising black sons in this country. Parents who know will tell us. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLOOM: New tonight, we now know who called 911 in the Alton Sterling case, a call that resulted in his death. I`m Lisa Bloom sitting in for Dr. Drew
tonight. And I have to warm you. The footage that you are about to see is very graphic. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This new cell phone video captures a different angle of the 37-year-old`s killing at the hands of police.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where the (inaudible). Where you going?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the video you hear the initial shots fired.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gun.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey bro, you (inaudible) move I swear to God.
You`re dead.
Get on the ground.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then the camera jerks away turning back to show Sterling on the ground bleeding from the chest. Moments later another
officer reaches down and takes what witnesses later say is a gun out of Sterling`s right pocket.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLOOM: We are back with Cheryl and Spirit. And I`m very pleased to say joining us, Deray Mckesson. He is a Civil Rights Activist. And if there`s
only one person that I was going to follow on Twitter it would be Deray, he is a very powerful voice for the community. And joining us via Skype is
John Cardillo. You know him well, former NYPD police officer.
So, let me catch everybody up on what we know about why the police were called in the Sterling case? Sterling was outside the convenience store.
Now he was selling CD`s and had permission from the store owner to do that. A homeless man kept asking him for money. Sterling eventually showed him
his gun and said I told you to leave me alone. The homeless man called 911 and told the cops that Sterling was, "Brandishing a gun." All right, maybe
he was, maybe he wasn`t. But Deray to you and I say this with a heavy dose of sarcasm, does the second amendment apply to African-American?
DERAY MCKESSON, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: So here is what we know to be true that those officers chose to kill him. And that he had a right to be on
that property. He was no posing, no threat to the officers at the time that they approached him. And he posed no threat when he was subdued on
the ground but they chose to kill him. Sterling should be alive today. That is just true, if those are the facts and the reason why we`re having
this conversation to the police have unchecked power in this country and it is not OK.
BLOOM: John Cardillo, to you, does it matter about the gun that he had a gun on him and what if we can never really determine if he was reaching for
the gun or not?
JOHN CARDILLO, FORMER NYPD OFFICER: That is for a couple of reasons. The cops are not clairvoyant. So they got a 911 call, someone felt threatened
by someone with a gun. As matter of law, sterling was a felon. And position of the firearm by sterling was in and of itself a felony.
BLOOM: OK. But that`s not the reason enough to shot someone.
CARDILLO: Hold on. Hold on. Lis, you asked me a question. Let me answer it. OK. So the reality is, police are coming to a scene complaining
victim said that someone threatened them with a firearm. Now, Deray Mckesson, no credibility to me. He tweets out supported Assata Shakur .
BLOOM: Oh, stop. Don`t -- do not go there.
CARDILLO: Hold on. Lisa? Lisa, I`m .
BLOOM: Do not go there, John Cardillo.
(CROSSTALK)
CARDILLO: Lisa, let me finish. You want to cut me off, you keep cutting me off. Keep cutting off. Darey, you tweet support of Joanne Chesimard on
the FBI`S most wanted terror list, the murderer of .
BLOOM: OK. John? John, I am going to cut you off because you`re doing attack.
CARDILLO: Of course, you are, Lisa.
BLOOM: On another guest .
CARDILLO: Of course, you are .
BLOOM: . that has nothing to do with the question that I asked about.
CARDILLO: Then let me finish my answer.
BLOOM: I`m going just -- no, I`m not going to let you finish because that`s not appropriate.
CARDILLO: But then, why ask me a question .
BLOOM: I`m going to Cheryl, who is a retired LAPD Sergeant.
CARDILLO: OK, if you want to correct for that.
BLOOM: She is now going to make for two attacks.
CARDILLO: You don`t want to -- the answer .
BLOOM: OK. Really -- that`s enough. It`s not OK.
OK, Cheryl, let me go to you. You get a call that somebody is brandishing a weapon. How should that have been handled?
DORSEY: Well, listen, here`s the thing that we see on social media time and time again. We see white police officers confronting white suspects
with ak-47 and almost as if the officer lays down and exposes his soft under belly for those suspects.
They don`t -- there is no confrontation, there is no fear when a white man is possessing a hand gun. But all of a sudden, a black man, whether he is
armed or not is also scary. And listen, these officers manufactured and created a use for deadly force. They came into a call with a man with a
gun. What they should have done was taken a position of cover, had some communication with this man before they confronted him.
But they wanted to do this. And you see the officer as he is straddling over Alton, telling him, he is threatening him. He is saying to him, if
you don`t stop, if you don`t quit moving, if you don`t obey there is a price to pay, contempt of cop. I talk about it all the time. This was
punishment.
BLOOM: So, Darey, let me go to you and talk about the elephant in the room. And a lot of people don`t want to talk about, and that is race. How
does race inform the cases over and over and over again?
MCKESSON: So like Cheryl said, we know that black bodies are seen as a threat to police just because of people`s blackness. And we know that that
is unfair. We know it`s unjust. President Obama spoke about it today.
BLOOM: Yeah.
MCKESSON: We`ve speaking a body in protest industry for last 20 months. We know that if he had been a white man that he would have been treated
differently. And we know that with the case in Minneapolis or Twin Cities, as well. And again, the officers chose to kill him. If they had many
options to subdue him that he was not posing a threat. There was no gun in his hand when he was killed. And they chose to do it.
The police have killed nearly three people every day in 2016. They kill somebody every day but 18 days in 2015. And every single state in the
country is a crisis. And what I`m hoping that Obama will do before he leaves is enact the national use of force standard that makes clear the
preservation of life. And using deadly force as the absolute last resort and we have two cases right now that show the deadly force is been used as
first resort because the officers do not value a lot of black people.
BLOOM: Yeah. And I think that`s really the problem. OK. John, I know you want to get in. I`m not going to have you attack other guests. But go
ahead?
CARDILLO: Lisa, nobody is attacking anyone, Lisa. But I have to go to credibility when somebody is antipolice. Look, Cheryl, with all the
respect has not been on the street in 30 years.
BLOOM: You`re doing it again. What did I just tell you?
CARDILLO: Lisa, it`s pertinent to the conversation .
(CROSSTALK)
CARDILLO: You know, at least, you can keep cutting me off .
BLOOM: I`m actually not cutting you off but I wanted to hear your analysis of this particular video where a man is down and shot by police.
CARDILLO: But Lisa, current experience is pertinent, not 30-year-old experience. Tell me you want my opinion but you`re running a kangaroo
court panel with one point of view. So here it is. They`re called for a man with a gun. He is illegally carrying a gun. He is threatening people
with the gun while (inaudible) wrestling with the police trying to grab the gun. And in that video you showed, before the camera pulled away, he
propped himself up on his weak side and began to move his strong arm towards the gun. The police fired once on top of him. And then again
there.
BLOOM: OK. So what is going to happen in the analysis of this video is it going to be broken down frame by frame. We`ve been doing that since Rodney
King and we`ll see who is right. And we`ll see if he reached for the gun or we`ll see if he is just reacting to two police officers on top of him
throwing an arm, throwing a shoulder, et cetera.
Next, we are going to go live to Baton Rouge to show you what is happening there right now. There are people in the streets. And later, what
millions of parents are asking tonight, what do we tell our children? I have a lot of thoughts about that. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABDULLAH MUFLAHI, BYSTANDER WITNESS: I came out the store, they were throwing him on top of the car, tasering him, tackling him to another
vehicle and throwing him on the ground. That is when both cops got on top of him. One of the cop screamed gun and that is when they start shooting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he say anything? Did Alton speak out in anyway?
MUFLAHI: No. I didn`t hear him say anything. I don`t think (inaudible) he was saying and he got off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he understand what was happening?
MUFLAHI: No, he was really confused. He didn`t know what was going on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLOOM: That was a store owner and eyewitness. And he is outraged after two Baton Rouge police officers struggled with Alton Sterling and then shot
him multiple times pointblank in the chest and it was caught on video. I`m Lisa Bloom and I`m back with Cheryl, Deray, John and Spirit. Spirit, it
has gotten to the point where I don`t want to look at social media. A lot of times, right before I go to bed, I go on social media, you know, there
is a new hashtag, there`s a new dead body, there`s a new story. You know, I can`t look at videos of people dying. I mean literally, we are looking
at videos of people dying at the hands of people that we are paying to protect and serve all of us. What advice do you have for me and everybody
else feeling this trauma right now?
SPIRIT: You know, at least you`re feeling it Lisa because the reality here is the problem is that far too many people in this country have no regard
and have no understanding about what is the reality of other people`s circumstances in this country. This has been the condition of black people
in this country since the beginning of our existence here. And so many people are in denial about that. Until people wake up and realize that the
experience that you have with law enforcement is not the experience that someone else has, until you wake up and realize that the experience and
safety that you feel is not the same safety that everyone in America feels. Until we get real about the real issues, Lisa, this will continue to exist.
We have to understand that our reality is not necessarily that of our neighbors and we have to do better and be our brother`s keeper. That is a
huge part of this problem here, Lisa.
BLOOM: And we have new information about the two officers who were involved in that shooting. We have their names and their photos that were
just released a couple of hours ago. Their names are Blane Salamoni and Howie Lake II. And Deray, let me go to you. How do we turn our anger and
our outrage into action to stop these killings?
MCKESSON: Remember that this is a group of employees that are public servants who have the power to take people`s lives and are incredibly
unchecked as they exercise that power. So this and its root is about having a different perception of safety that is not center policing but
it`s also about making sure the institution of policing is much more accountable.
So we think about having a use of force standard and at the federal level and in states that explicitly preserve life. We think about having police
union contracts that are much more fair and we think about having clear lines of accountability when we think about interrogations and independent
investigations. There are a host of things that are important at the structural level. And we believe that changing structures and systems
ultimately changes culture. And what we know to be true is there is a culture of policing in this country that says essentially that police can
do whatever they want and they will be OK.
BLOOM: I want to read you what Beyonce just posted on her website. She wrote an open letter. And I can`t read you the whole thing but here is a
part of it. She says, "We are sick and tired of the killings of young men and women in our communities. It is up to us to take a stand and demand
that they stop killing us. We don`t need sympathy. We need everyone to respect our lives. We are going to stand up as a community and fight
against anyone who believe that murder or any violent action by those who are sworn to protect us should consistently go unpunished." Spirit, you
wanted to say something.
SPIRIT: Yes, I was going to say and that`s beautiful. But, you know, we also have to get the folks that need to be involved, involved. It`s great
for our artists to be out there and to be able to protest. But going back to Deray`s point, maybe we need to take this a step further. Maybe we even
need to look at the United Nations, office of drugs and crime to come in here and teach us how to police because it`s out of control. We cannot do
this on our own. Yes, I did say that. Because our police system is failing. We need someone to come in and to say it needs to be done a
different way. And if you cannot control your house then someone needs to help you come in and clean it up.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: Well, and John Cardillo I see you getting upset. But listen, in fact the U.N. and other international bodies have called out the human
rights abuses that go on .
SPIRIT: That`s right.
BLOOM: . with American police in communities of color. And John, bottom line is police are accountable for every bullet that gets fired from their
gun, every bullet must be justified as either defense of self or defense of another because they were in fear of great bodily injury or death. How can
they explain bullets two, three and four, in these cases, when a man is already down and disabled?
CARDILLO: Because you shoot to stop the threat. The U.N. can clean its own house first. The most corrupt organization on the plant. I want the
U.N. know it. I wish we kick them out of New York. They`re useless to us. They take billions and do nothing. That`s another show.
Police officer is trained to stop the threat. You don`t need much range of motion to be deadly with a gun. You need this and this. Alton Sterling
was moving. He was a big guy. Extracting that gun from his pocket was very simple. There is this ridiculous notion, Lisa, that use of deadly
force needs to look nice. It`s never going to look .
BLOOM: No .
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: You`re not answering the question.
(CROSSTALK)
CARDILLO: Hold on, I`ll give you the answer. If a threat is coming at me and takes me 15 rounds, reload and another 15 rounds to stop it I`m going
to shoot those 30 rounds.
BLOOM: Yeah. OK.
CARDILLO: I`m stopping the threat and will justify every round.
BLOOM: That`s the -- if a threat.
CARDILLO: Lisa. Lisa. Lisa.
BLOOM: And luckily we have videos so we can assess that. At least in this two cases .
CARDILLO: Yeah.
BLOOM: . but not in all thousand cases last year where police killed Americans.
Coming up next, parents who worry about their children`s lives because their sons and daughters are African-American. We`re going to talk about
that after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEI CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There have been 588 police shootings that resulted in death this year.
REYNOLDS: Please tell me you did not do this to him. You shot four bullets into him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The majority disproportionately have been of people of color.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t see any other way police could have acted.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I never seen white people being executed on camera like I do black people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLOOM: Segun (ph) really hit the nail on the head, didn`t he? The execution of disproportionately black people at the hands of white police
officers, sure it happens to white people, too, but twice as likely is going to be an African-American male than a white male. I`m Lisa Bloom and
I`m sitting in for Dr. Drew tonight talking about these police shooting stories. I want you to see what D.L. Hughley said recently. He`s a
political commentator and father. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
D.L. HUGHLEY, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Every black or brown parent I know has conversation with their children when they tell them exactly how to act
around the police. That is abhorrent. I don`t even go to sleep to my children come home, my grown children come home at night. I keep my
clothes on and my wife will tell you, I keep my clothes on in case my children need me in the middle of the night. And I just do not understand.
We love our children. We love our parents, our mothers, our fathers. They are brutalized and nobody says anything. It`s too much. It`s too much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLOOM: Back can my panel of moms. I`m a mom, too. Cheryl has four sons. Spirit is the mother of six children, three are boys. And joining us,
Areva Martin, attorney and mom. Areva, give me your reaction to what D.L. Hughley just said about sleeping in his clothes, always being ready for
that terrible phone call.
AREVA MARTIN, MOTHER AND ATTORNEY: Unfortunately, Lisa, I hear that all too often. I`m a parent so I understand what D.L. is going through. D.L.
also has a son that has autism like I do so we are doubly concerned about our kids who have special needs.
I think the thing that is so troubling about the Minnesota shooting of Philando Castile is that he did what we teach our kids to do and that is to
comply. He had a conversation with his mother and his sister about the need to comply with police at all times whenever they give you an order and
he did that. And that didn`t work. So whether you are Walter Scott and you`re running away from the police or you are Mr. Castile and you are
going to get your registration and license as you have been told to do your life doesn`t matter. You are seen as a suspect, not a citizen by some, not
all, but some police officer. And that`s the culture that has to change.
And I talked about this yesterday. Police have this lawyer, militarize attitude rather than be protect and serve that we need to be the culture of
policing in this country. And that`s what this outrage is about you are seeing from mothers and fathers and everyone that is speaking up about Mr.
Castile and the Alton Sterling shooting.
BLOOM: Yes. And Alton Sterling, he left behind five children. He was a dad. The mother of his oldest child spoke publicly. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUINYETTA MCMILLON, ALTON STERLING`S SON`S MOTHER: As a mother, I have now been forced to raise a son who is going to remember what happened to his
father. That I can`t take away from him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLOOM: And you say Trayvon Martin`s picture with the hoodie up on the sweatshirt of one of the people there. Trayvon Martin, what was his crime?
Walking slowly in the rain with some skittles in his pocket. Cheryl, let`s talk about that 15-year-old child who breaks down in tears at that press
conference as any of us would have what he`s just gone through. When that boy grows up to be a man, is he ever going to be able to trust law
enforcement?
DORSEY: Listen, his life is forever changed. And so I`m sure that probably the people that are on his peripheral will also effected because
the way that he`s going to interacts with people is going to be very different now because of his view of those in the position of power and
authority, the people that you`re told to trust. These are the very people that took his father`s life.
And so, his battles are going to be long reaching and -- and are going to be very extensive. He`s going to be probably need a lot of counseling to
get him through this and over this. If he ever gets over it, I mean, how do you overcome the loss of a parent in a manner when it should not have
happened that way and then to hear someone try to justify something that`s unjustifiable, it`s unconsciousable.
BLOOM: Yeah. And the legal system is going to play out and it`s going to keep reminding him of it. And I think the fact this is so sudden, people
are just living their lives. His dad just selling CDs in front of the convenience store and then boom, he`s gone. It`s such a horrific trauma.
We`re coming back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLOOM: I`m Lisa Bloom back with Cheryl, Spirit and Areva. And joining us now by phone, Vanessa Barnett, mommy blogger and mother of a daughter with
a little son on the way. Vanessa, I understand it`s been quite an emotional few days for you. What`s been going on?
VANESSA BARNETT, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, absolutely and rightly so. And I think just seeing both videos with Alton and with Philando, just the
initial reaction is shock and just not being able to comprehend the things we`re seeing on video and have been seeing for the past couple of years.
But then, I think, frustration also sets in because yes, I have a daughter. I have a husband, a black husband. I`m having a son, of course, emotional
for those reasons, but I`m also mad that people that don`t have a black son or black husband or black anything, uncle, cousin, nephew that they for
whatever reason may not be as connected to this story and that scares me because we should be able to have empathy and understand this is murder.
We are witnessing murder on social media. And if you can`t understand a father being shot in a car while his daughter is in the backseat, point-
blank range, then there is something so terribly wrong with you that I`m scared it can`t be fixed.
BLOOM: Yeah. Vanessa, my heart goes out to you. I want to give you a big hug next time I see you. I`m going to do that. Good luck with your baby
and good luck with your labor and delivery. Good luck.
BARNETT: Thank you so much.
BLOOM: Cheryl Dorsey, let me go to you because you are a mom as well. How do you explain to people who just don`t understand what you go through as
the parent, especially of black boys?
DORSEY: Well, you know, Lisa, what I always say is that I really don`t need anymore`s agreement with my situation. And so I don`t try to explain
to someone, but what I say to my sons is to be careful and comply and be respectful. And you can only do what you can do and after that you have to
leave it in god`s hands.
And so, you know, my heart just breaks because none of us are immune. I`m not immune. The fact that I`m not male doesn`t mean I`m OK. When I leave
this building, I`m leaving here with black skin. And so, I too, can become a victim of a rogue cop.
And so, you know, until there`s accountability, until officers are held responsibility financially, personally for their wrong doing, this is going
to continue. And so we`re in an election year. People need to reach out to their legislatures. We need to do something about that police officers
bill of rights that laws officers to shields themselves under the police department and have taxpayers carry the burden of their bad doing.
BLOOM: Yeah. We want to see those police videos too. We want to see those dash cam videos. We want to see the videos that police officers are
wearing that we are all paying for. And in many cases well, the video wasn`t working. The video fell off, you know. It`s one thing or another.
Areva, let me go to you in just the short time we have left. I wanted to be careful but I was not asking question about how black people can behave
differently. Because I think that`s a wrong question. That`s like saying, you know, how should women dress differently so they don`t raped. I want
to talk about changing the perpetrators behavior. I want to talk about changing the perpetrator`s behavior. I want to talk about changing the
behavior of the shooter because I think that`s where our focus should be. Do you agree?
MARTIN: Absolutely. And I think too often people are pointing the finger at the victims and say the victim shouldn`t have this. They should have
run. They should have complied rather than focusing on what the person with the badge and the gun and who has the power of authority under the
state to act. What should they be doing differently? And I think we have to always stay focused on the police officers in these cases and never
allow ourselves to look at what the victim did and when we look at the Philando case, what`s so shocking to me is you have the police officer who
clearly was out of control. Who was just draw himself and raise the question to me about his mental fortitude, his emotional intelligence and
his abilities to carry the gun and to carry out the duties of a police officer. He seemed ill equipped.
BLOOM: Well I think that`s a very important point. You know, we have to have better training. We have to have psychological training for police
because we`re entrusting them with the power to take human lives.
I`d love to hear from you all on Twitter, @lisabloom is my name over there. Thank you so much for watching. I think this is very important discussion.
I hope we keep it up in our homes. And thanks Dr. Drew for letting me sit in your chair this week.
Nancy Grace, up next.
END
