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Dr. Drew

Shooting at Ft Myers Teen Dance; Mother`s Love is Forgiving; Cyber Bullying Case; Made-Up Abduction and Abuse . Aired 7-7:30p ET

Aired July 25, 2016 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- crimes or are involved with law enforcement are not very bright. Most often, it`s the other way around.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today, we all woke to up horrific, tragic news. Shooting of children, teenagers.

DREW PINSKY, DR. DREW ON CALL SHOW HOST: Two teens killed during a shooting. Eighteen others were injured when someone pulled the trigger at

an event geared toward teenagers at Club Blu in Fort Myers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This all started at teen night at Club Blu here in Fort Myers. It`s a night that all ages were welcome. You didn`t need to show

I.D. to get inside the club. So, there were kids as young as 12, intermingled with adults. And it happened that a confrontation between two

groups inside the club poured into the parking lot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For me to hear a phone call, come get your son body. That is painful.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody expects somebody to be injured going to an event where it was supposed to be teenagers having a good time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Teen night at a local club turns deadly. Two young people shot and killed. As a group of teenagers waited for a ride home.

Joining me on the phone, I`ve Melanie Payne, she`s a senior writer for the Fort Myers News Press. Melanie, thanks for joining us. Any updates on the

injured?

MELANIE PAYNE, FORT MYERS NEWS PRESS SENIOR WRITER: Well, most have been released from the hospital. We don`t have much very on them, on the others.

This morning, a couple were in the ICU. But it looks like everybody else is going to make it.

PINSKY: OK. And whenever I hear ICU, I worry that these are head injuries. Do we know?

PAYNE: No, we don`t know.

PINSKY: OK. Three people are in custody apparently. Do we know anything about them?

PAYNE: Well, one was involved in an officer shooting, we know that. They were close to the club then there was a call made, the police, the

sheriff`s department came, the police were at the scene of the club.

And the sheriff`s department came and pursued them, set up a perimeter, the suspects fled on foot and one received a gunshot wound to the abdomen, but

he was treated, released and then arrested.

PINSKY: Melanie, tell me more about this club. I understand there`s been some scrutiny of the club. And a teen night where you allow adults in as

well as teens? I mean, this does not seem like a good idea to me.

PAYNE: Well, everybody said they called it teen night, but it is really it make this seem oh, this is the, you know, this is the night we only have

teens. That wasn`t it. It was billed as kind of a party and beach party and birthday party.

And people came and, so people of all ages were there. They interviewed the guy today, he said he had no idea they even let kids in. He goes there all

the time. So, it was put up in advertised that they were having this party there and as kids were welcome. But there wasn`t anything to say this is

the night that we have it exclusively for this age group.

PINSKY: Right. And, Melanie, please stay with me. I want to bring in my panel. And I`ve Joey Jackson, attorney, HLN legal analyst, I`ve got Jena

Kravitz, neuropsychologist, and John Cardillo, a former NYPD officer. Host of 880 a.m. Miami, Fort Miami Lauderdale Radio.

The police chief says not an act of terrorism. John, in this age, where near just six weeks ago terrorism developed in that same area, you know, in

Florida, not too far away. Of course we think about that. But that is not what this is.

JOHN CARDILLO, FORMER NYPD OFFICER: Yes, and I spoke to -- I have some relationships up in that area with the Lee County Sheriff`s Department and

Fort Myers police. And right away they were working a gang angle.

Or one of the theories is that there might have been gang recruitment going on among the teens in the club and a rival gang took issue with that. They

are working other issues. But pretty quickly they dismiss terror and we`re looking gangs or personal beefs.

PINSKY: Now the victims are 14-year-old Sean Archilles and 18-year-old Stef`An Strawder. Now, John, do you figure they were targeting these young

-- these particular kids or were they just part of the crossfire?

CARDILLO: Well, looking at it empirically there from my experience, they may have been part of the crossfire and they may have been, one or two

targets. But, you know, bad guys, gangsters as if they are that don`t really go to the range and practice.

So, we used to say when they shoot, they spray and prey, right, they just fire as many rounds as they cannot really counting like that, a rhetoric.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Well, we`re looking -- John, we are looking at the, I think what are sort of these markers or I guess where the bullets or the bullet shells

have fallen. And it looks like there`s like dozens and dozens, maybe even 50 or something. It`s crazy.

CARDILLO: Yes, they are just letting their rounds go. They`ve got to target, they`re shooting in the general direction, they`re not aiming,

right. They are just letting as many rounds go as possible. And unfortunately, they don`t care about collateral damage and we see the

tragic outcome.

PINSKY: Now I want to show you how this club, this so-called Club Blu advertise this party. It was advertised as a swimsuit glow party with a $5

cover, no I.D. required, aimed, aimed at people 12 to 17. But as I said, open to people of all ages.

[19:04:59] Joey, you let your kids go to something like that? I mean, this seems -- this seems in their club they`ve got some serious problems.

JOEY JACKSON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, it does, doctor. But here is my point of view. The answer is no, my child would not be there.

But the point is that, in a free society, why not have children go where they want to go?

If you have a confined environment and you, as a parent, believe that this is a place where your kid or your child if its build as a teen night can go

and enjoy themselves, why not allow them to do it.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Joey?

JACKSON: Yes?

PINSKY: Joey, I would not disagree with you, if it were not for the fact that it was not a teen night. It was everyone`s welcome night. One of the

victims was a 27-year-old.

JACKSON: Well, therein lies the rub. However, if it`s build in a way that you believe teens are going to be there. I mean, we need constructive

things for our teens to do. And whether it`s bonding in a party, eating at a party, dancing at a party, having fellowship in a party, they should be

able to do that.

The fact that you have madmen throughout society who are going to engage in this acts of violence it`s despicable.

PINSKY: Yes.

JACKSON: We can call it terrorism not terrorism, We understand it wasn`t an act of terror, but it`s a domestic act of terror.

PINSKY: Yes.

JACKSON: It`s an active despicable in humanity it shouldn`t happen and it`s happening more and more. So, we have to get to the root of the

problem. What`s the root? Is it gun control? is it the lack of education? Is it that people are just so pissed off in society that they have to exact

to pound the flesh upon others? Is it mental illness?

Whatever it is, doctor, we have to get to the root of it or else we are going to be talk about it not even every week but every day. It`s a shame.

PINSKY: The club posted something on Facebook. I want to show it to yu, quote, "We tried to give the teens what we thought was a safe place to have

a good time," to Joey`s point, "ages 12-17. There was armed security as well as full security inside and out."

And I think, Joey, you are coming to the defense of the club, right? I mean, they took a lot of necessary practical measure to try to keep it

safe, and yet, that even that was not enough.

JACKSON: Correct. And that`s a problem. I mean, look, we have to have something, some outlet for our youth. And so, I don`t necessarily blame the

club for attempting to do that. The fact that there were other people in there who were above that age, now that`s problematic.

but you have security, you advertise it. You have an environment where parents may say, you know, and you know how persuasive kids are, Dr. Drew,

right?

PINSKY: Yes.

JACKSON: So, please, mom, please dad, I`m just going to go a little while. My friend, oh, you know, Beth is going to be there and Harry is going to be

there. We`re just going to dance, you are so mean. Why can`t you -- you know, the kids are very persuasive.

And the fact that parents say all right, all right, I`ll drop you off, I`ll pick you up at a certain time, everything is going to be OK. Then you have

mad people who are shooting. It`s tragically ridiculous.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Well, shooting, shooting -- and Jena, I know you want to comment on what Joey just said. I want to get to you. But I want to get to the

shooting issue because Governor Rick Scott was asked whether his state should consider tougher gun laws. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICK SCOTT, FLORIDA GOVERNOR: We`re at the Second Amendment. The Second Amendment is never shot anybody. The evil did this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: And Melanie, Fort Myers have been struggling with gun violence for a while. Tell me about that.

PAYNE: Oh, yes. We`ve just had a really just a rash of problems with gun violence. But and people using guns. Today, you know, the shells on the

street show that these people were shooting an automatic rifle.

PINSKY: Yes.

JACKSON: No, they weren`t.

PINSKY: No?

PAYNE: Well.

(CROSSTALK)

JACKSON: It wasn`t automatic.

PINSKY: it looks like to me.

JACKSON: It`s not an automatic rifle.

PINSKY: Semi-automatic?

JACKSON: Semi-automatic.

PINSKY: Semi-automatic.

PAYNE: OK. (Inaudible) Sorry. You know, you can get a lot of bullets off in a period -- in short period of time. There were shells on the street,

even further that the police didn`t even seen. And the ones that you originally -- that we originally featured.

You know, it`s just they can cause a lot of deaths and we have had drive- by, we had a 5-year-old killed in his home. A bullet went through...

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: So, Melanie, is there a lot of gang violence in your area? Is that what we`re talking about here?

PAYNE: Well, it`s most likely gang.

PINSKY: OK. But you have gang problems. So, for John to speculate, that`s something that is a problem in Fort Myers, yes?

PAYNE: Well, there are groups of people dead are probably...

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: OK. All right. Thanks, Melanie.

Next off, a man that who knew and mentored one of the victims is here. And later, how a love for a mother`s love for her son who killed himself

allowed her, the mom, to forgive the girl believed to have contribute to his death.

Back after this.

[19:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: Witnesses say shots were fired in the parking lot at Club Blu as the teen party let out after midnight while parents pulled in to pick up

their kids.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was not an act of terror. This was not a terrorist act.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A confrontation between two groups inside the club poured into the parking lot. You had one group coming from this direction,

one group coming from that direction and they exchange gunfire right in the middle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is what every mayor and council hopes never happens in their city.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I remain very resolved that justice will be served. We`ll tell you we have three persons of interest in custody. I`m not going

to name who they are and we`re still looking for others.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Two young men dead, many or others hurt. Teens, after shooting outside a Florida club that was hosted as a, quote, "teen night."

Back with Joey, Jena, and John. State record show Club Blu alcohol licensed had been revoked on June 7 because of an undisclosed incident that occurred

one year ago. The complaint was filed in 2014 for quote, "criminal activity."

The club was given an official notice. Joey, again, I know you were sort of defending the club. But isn`t this club in trouble that I understand they

took precautions but they`ve had issues with alcohol, they built this as a teen night, people were hurt, adults were mixing with the teens. Isn`t

there some liability here?

JACKSON: I think that it could be problematic in as much as adults are mixing with teens. However, that`s not the legal issue here at the end of

the day. There was no issue as to the adults who are mixing with the teens. There was nothing going on inside the club that`s come out so far that was

inappropriate or untoward or otherwise illegal. What happened was outside the club.

[19:15:01] And so, I would say, if I`m defending the club, look, to support this club, this is a club in the community that`s existing to bring people

together. To have young people have an outlet, to have young people safely enjoy each other as they should, free of alcohol.

So, again, the issue in terms of the license being revoked is not an issue because they`re not drinking.

PINSKY: All right.

JACKSON: They are dancing, they are enjoying there talking to themselves.

PINSKY: All right. OK.

JACKSON: And so, you have some person outside the club. I just think it`s improper and some independent criminal act or some mad men or mad people

who do this.

PINSKY: Jena, what do you say?

JENA KRAVITZ, CLINICAL NEUROPSYCHOLOGIST: Now I`m not an attorney here. And you say that this club is bringing people together in the community.

They hosted a night for teenagers called, swimsuits and glow sticks. Like that, in on itself insinuate that there were things going on in that club

potentially or possibly it could have happened that weren`t exactly innocent. As a parent, I don`t think that I would have let my kids go.

(CROSSTALK)

JACKSON: That`s a moral judgment, though.

PINSKY: Yes.

JACKSON: But that`s a moral judgment, In other words we can argue day and night as to whether glow sticks or bathing suits or anything else is proper

or not proper. At the end of the day there`s was nothing in the club that`s at issue.

PINSKY: All right.

JACKSON: It appears that everyone having an enjoyable time. When they stepped out of the club, that that was -- that was when things happened.

And that`s what the focus needs to be on legally and other...

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: All right. Let`s focus on that. On the phone, I`ve Dwayne Jackson, he was a mentor. And one of the men who was killed Stef`An Strawder.

Dwayne, how did you hear about the shooting?

DWAYNE JACKSON, STEF`AN STRAWDER`S MENTOR: Well, I woke up -- my wife, she woke me up and told me. And it was like the saddest -- the saddest day

ever.

PINSKY: Yes. I`m so sorry. Let`s -- tell us about Stef`An. You`ve known him since the fourth grade.

D. JACKSON: Yes. He`s such a sweet kid. And he was always playing basketball. He looked up to me. And I wanted the people (Inaudible)

community with different things that I do. And he just was very humble. He always helped me train kids and stuff. He was an awesome basketball player.

PINSKY: I`m imagining, you know, we are arguing about should kids be going to this -- excuse me, this thing or not? This sounds to have good kid that

was just hanging out with friends, is that right?

D. JACKSON: Yes, he was just hanging out. And after the club, people just started shooting for no reason.

PINSKY: Any idea what happened?

D. JACKSON: I don`t really know what happened or what caused it. But, it happened.

PINSKY: Yes. Dwayne, thank you. We just wanted to remember him and give you a chance to talk about this young man. Because this is, you know, these

are just names on this, you know, when we talk about these things. But there`s a life here. And it`s a very sad story.

D. JACKSON: Yes. Like, we train every week and he was just a great kid. He`s going to be a senior this year and go to college on the basketball

scholarship.

PINSKY: Oh, my God. Awful. So waste.

D. JACKSON: And it`s sad to see this happened.

PINSKY: Jena, the one thing about this that strikes me this whole that it would so much about what we`ve been reporting when it comes to shootings.

It`s this either somebody with -- well, people with liabilities.

You know, somebody with a mental health issue who shouldn`t have gotten their guns on the gun or somebody who is radicalized. This is not that.

This is a fight between two gangs and other people are killed.

KRAVITZ: But it`s also in the context of so many shootings that have been in the media. You know, I kind of wonder about social learning, right,

modeling these types of things, sensationalizing these shootings.

We talk about them on the media, they`re in online, they`re in newspapers, you know. And I`m wondering if that is sort of influencing how these people

are...

PINSKY: John, how does this happen? If this is if were an all-out gang, you know.

CARDILLO: Yes. I think we`ve to talk about the elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about.

PINSKY: What is that?

CARDILLO: It`s epidemic -- it`s epidemic level crime rates of young black men shooting and killing young black men 10 times more likely, according to

the most recent FBI estimates than young white men of the same age. And most of that is gang-related.

So, to Jena`s point, and I do happen to agree with Jena that there is some conditioning that shooting your rivals is the way to go, it`s the most

efficient. I think she`s on to something. But I think we also do a tremendous disservice when we try to talk about that being and are called

racists or xenophobic. It`s very epidemic and we need to discuss it.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Go ahead, Joey.

JACKSON: Are we blaming the media for sensationalizing violence? I`m not sure what the point is. The fact is that in a free society, right, the

media needs to report on shootings because it highlights the issue.

It makes people know and understand that there`s a gun problem, that there`s a gang problem, that there`s a violence problem. I don`t think the

issue lies on the media pretending it doesn`t exist and saying about it because things are happening.

We have to report it. There`s an obligation to report it. These are go -- this is what`s going on in our times. Should we not report the fact that

police officers are shot inappropriately. We need to. Should we not report the fact that police officers are engaging in acts, you know, perhaps of

over aggressiveness in communities. We need to.

[19:19:58] The issue lies in educating youth so that they`re not resorting to violence, so that they`re not resorting to gangs, so they are doing

things constructive in their community.

PINSKY: We`re going to...

(CROSSTALK)

JACKSON: And so we shouldn`t be censoring the media or otherwise we need to have this conversation.

PINSKY: I think we all agree to that. I`ve got to go. Next up, a boy kills himself after a classmate posts revealing pictures of him for all to see.

His family is forgiving her. We`re back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This 15-year-old Nebraska boy killed himself leaving behind a devastated family. It began a year before his death when Reid

Adler sent a photo of his private parts to a female classmate. Reid`s parents said the girl taunted their son and threatened to post the

embarrassing image online.

She eventually made good on that promise. The day after the picture was exposed, Reid was found suffocated in his bedroom. His parents are not

pressing charges and say they have forgiven the girl.

[19:25:02] PINSKY: Amazing. A sad story. A month before Reid took his life he sent his mother a note telling her that at times he didn`t want to live

any longer. He also admitted watching suicide videos. The family apparently took him to counseling.

Back with Joey and Jena. And joining us Brian Claypool, attorney. Now, Jena, dad is a superintendent of schools, right? Is that right?

KRAVITZ: Right.

PINSKY: And as such he would be what`s called a mandated reporter. Explain to people what that is.

KRAVITZ: So, this is somebody who by law, is mandated to report when someone expresses an interest to harm themselves or somebody else.

PINSKY: And so, the question, it begs the question, why wasn`t this kid hospitalized?

KRAVITZ: Well, I mean, as a superintendent of the school, he`s a mandated reporter. But as the father of this child, why was he not taken to the

emergency room right after that when he expressed an interest in hurting himself?

PINSKY: He also said that the kid, he believed, the dad believed the child may have dreaded bringing embarrassment to him and his family. Here is what

Mark Adler told on how Omaha World Herald. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK ADLER, REID ADLER`S FATHER: Obviously, whatever pain Reid was in and I think, you know, that just the concern about this picture and the

embarrassment and how he had made a mistake to even take that and send it, I wish I would have went to him and just said what is bothering you? And I

didn`t do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Listen, I have deep sympathy for dad here and the mom. This is horrible. I mean, it`s unthinkable to have a parent go through this. But

it`s a reminder, Jena, of how somebody, particularly an adolescent that has suicidal even thinking tis to be dealt with as a medical emergency.

KRAVITZ: Absolutely, Dr. Drew. This is really, really tragic.

PINSKY: All right. Well, let`s -- I want to talk a little more about what`s next. The legal action. The parents have forgiven the girl and will

not pursue legal action. My question to Joey, the fact that this girl taunted this kid with these pictures, the kid ended up harming himself in

temporal proximity to her releasing the picture, is that kid liable?

JACKSON: You know, you can make the argument that the child is liable, but then you have to look and say was this the root cause? Was there other

things that were going on in the child`s life that were just so deep that were just so, you know, mentally hurtful in addition to perhaps the

exposing of his private parts on social media.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Well, let`s say -- let`s just say for the sake of argument, Joey, let`s just say he`s he had a biological proclivity to depressed or he was

on a medication that make him more depressed and then this picture put him over the edge. Isn`t that enough?

JACKSON: Well, it could be enough. But then the issue then becomes should there be an underlying prosecution? You know, there are teachable moments

in our society. And I get and understand, well, I can`t even say I understand because what this family is going through must be horrific and

it`s like something that we can`t imagine to think about.

PINSKY: Yes. No, no. Yes.

JACKSON: But, the fact to the matter is that I get that society, perhaps wants or may want prosecution because it`s wrong. A child shouldn`t be

doing this. But then you look at that and say, well, to what end? Is this case about an eye for an eye or is this case about keeping your eye on the

prize, and perhaps delivering some larger social message as that beautiful dad and his family they are attempting to do by not prosecuting her.

And what is that message? The message is to work with our children, to teach with children, to know what their triggers are. To perhaps look and

see if there are some underlying things that are bothering them. Are they being bullied? Having family time and maybe getting to the root causes, and

setting up a foundation like he`s doing to educate others so that others could be saved.

And so, simply because someone could be prosecuted. And I get -- you know, I get that society may want that, should we be doing it or is there a

larger social good that`s going to come out of what you do.

And I support what this father is doing, which is not doing it and keeping his focus on all children and trying to serve all humanity by saying this

wrong, don`t bully, don`t do it.

The final point is that, the girl who did this is apparently troubled. Her mother is a drug user. Her father is not there inside the home. She`s being

raised by her grandmother. Not excusing the conduct. But we have to say, look, do we want to now bury this girl or do we want to assist so many

masses of other children so that this doesn`t happen again. And that`s the social message I think we should take in.

PINSKY: Joey, I`m persuaded by that. I don`t know what society would want to do, but I know Brian may want to do something different.

BRIAN CLAYPOOL, ATTORNEY: Drew, the fact of the matter is this, much like a gun that`s used to harm somebody, much like a knife is used to harm or

kill somebody, social media and the internet right now is a very powerful weapon that can be used by youth to actually contribute to the death of

another youth. That`s how I see this.

PINSKY: Well, Brian, to that point -- Brian, to that point, she posted this thing on a site called Omaha Purge, it`s a web site aimed as exposing

people with embarrassing material. Aren`t that web site even more liable than the kid?

[19:30:00] CLAYPOOL: Well, I -- I don`t think you can hold the website liable but let`s get back to the kid. Here is the problem I have, Drew.

This was not an operation. This was not a one-time deal, where Reid Adler sends a picture of his private part and then she says, hey I`m gonna post

this.

She continually threatened him. I`m not sure what she was trying to extract from him, but she wanted something from him. If she didn`t get it, she was

going to post this on this -- on this web page that`s ridiculous and really should be eliminated.

PINSKY: Yes. I`m more worried about the web page than a troubled kid`s behavior. Why -- why can`t we take action against these web pages?

CLAYPOOL: Well, I think -- I think that`s -- here`s a point I want to make about that. Both of these issues should be taken care of through

legislation.

There`s got to be new laws that would remove that site, number one, and then number two, I don`t know if you know this, Drew, but -- but nearly all

states have cyber bullying and cyber stalking laws, but only 14 of those states have criminal repercussions if you do this. So, there`s really no

teeth to the laws that we have right now.

PINKSY: Joey, I see your wheels turning. Finish this up.

JOEY JACKSON, CRIMINAL DEFENCE ATTORNEY: Well, no to -- to -- to Brian`s point, which is a very good one, that we do have to look, however. It`s not

just about legislation. The reason that they don`t have teeth and the reason they are not criminalized is because of the ages of these children,

which raises a larger point.

Are we going to start out criminalizing youth? Society is difficult enough to advance yourself to move forward.

PINSKY: Is it just -- is it just underage people using these websites or adults using these websites also don`t get legal consequence?

CLAYPOOL: Hey, Drew...

(CROSSTALK)

CLAYPOOL: Yeah, Drew. Her actions could be considered a class four felony in Nebraska for cyber stalking. So, you tell me why the prosecutor just

ignores this case. There should be prosecution in this case to set an example to stop this from happening to another youth.

PINSKY: Well, Brian, I don`t know about the prosecutor but I doubt Reid`s mom. She has been in touch with the girl who posted the controversial

photo. She is here. She will explain to us why she has forgiven this young girl. And as -- as Joey said, there are some extraordinary issues

pertaining to that kid as well.

And later, a woman who says she was abducted and abused, but made up the whole story. According to police, she spent a lot of time and money to find

her. They spent all this time and money, they couldn`t find her because the whole thing was made up. We`ll talk about it after this.

[19:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s on his cell phone. Mark Adler`s favorite family selfie. His wife, Jonie, girls Kamille and Jade, and the Adler`s only son,

Reid. The Adler family shattered. Reid is now missing from the picture.

The 15-year-old took his own life on January 7th. The Adler`s learned Reid was being bullied. The parents would learned weeks after his death,

something Reid never shared with them. They say another teenager was taunting Reid, over and over, threatening to post a private picture of Reid

to social media.

PINSKY: As we learned, that classmate did post the image of Reid`s private parts online. The following morning, Reid`s mother discovered him dead in

his bedroom.

Back with Joey, Jena, and Brian. On the phone, I have Joni Adler, Reid`s mom. Joni, this story, I mean, has all of us broken up. But it just -- it

is -- we are so sorry. But -- but we also don`t understand how you find this level of forgiveness for this kid that bullied your son.

JONI ADLER, REID ADLER`S MOTHER: Well, you know, for us, I mean if you look at teenagers in general, they make decisions without thinking about them.

And I believe that is exactly what Reid did as well. He made a snap decision about a situation that he was overwhelmed by and, you know, he`s

not using every brain cell at 15 years old.

And I feel that`s exactly what she did as well. I mean there`s no doubt that she wanted to cause hurt, but she really -- she really did not set out

to have my son kill himself.

PINSKY: Well, I`m sure. What do you say to people like Brian who feel that there should be some legal action?

ADLER: Well, you know, I don`t -- I don`t know exactly how to -- how to put it, I guess. I guess being a Christian, that isn`t where my brain

immediately goes. Honestly, my brain immediately went to pity for her. And where she`s come from and what she`s had to live through.

If you know her story, then you know that she really didn`t have a chance in the world to know love, had never known it. And so, it was more of a

pity for me. And I guess that comes from my faith.

PINSKY: My understanding is your son was treated. I don`t understand why the professional didn`t take more aggressive action.

ADLER: Well, Reid was not, I mean, not a depressed boy. We are talking about a month between his first counseling appointment and -- and when he

took his life. Again, this was, I felt like something that he had in his heart, and it was nagging on him.

PINSKY: But listen. I -- I respectfully, I want to lay blame where it`s due, and Jena back me up on this. Adolescence don`t have depression -- this

manifest way of depression -- manifest in adulthood. Having suicidal ideation is a sign of severe, severe depression. Jenna, do you agree with

me?

JENA KRAVITZ, NEUROPSYCHOLOGIST: Agreed. And I also, I mean, I assured to ask about the counseling. The media reports have said that you were in

counseling together and I was wondering if that was the case why Reid wasn`t seeing the therapist alone. It`s just not standard to see teenagers

ongoing with their mom in the room, especially when there`s something sexual in nature that they may want to talk about.

[19:40:00] ADLER: I guess none of us knew that there was anything sexual in nature and I`ve never been in this situation either. I have no idea what

protocol is. So, I guess I was taking lead from -- from the counselor that we were seeing.

KRAVITZ: Yeah. And that`s -- that`s exactly what I`m wondering, why the counselor didn`t...

PINSKY: To do standard care and didn`t take this really serious.

KRAVITZ: ... didn`t insist for some time to build trust and rapport with him and maybe get to the underlying cause.

PINSKY: We are bewildered by the -- by the professional. But, you know, it doesn`t bring back the kid. I`m just so, so sorry about that. Joni, I will

let you go. But listen. I am, in a way, inspired by your level of forgiveness and pity and sympathy for the child. And I don`t know what else

to say except God bless you and our thoughts are with you.

ADLER: Thank you. Thank you much.

PINSKY: Joey, you were sort of making this case for the kid, the perpetrator, let`s call her, for lack of a better word that, you know, she

should be understood for all the misery that she was living with her life.

But again, that is excusing behavior that had horrible consequences. Yes, it may explain it, but why do we have to accept it as a -- as a excuse for

it?

JACKSON: You know, doctor, let me just do this for one moment, step out of the legal mode into the human mode. What a wonderful, beautiful,

compassionate, spiritual mom that she would have the compassion in a world with so little compassion, that you would have the ability.

It`s amazing to hear you interview her and to see what she has to say and to feel her heart and to feel her depth. It just -- it just warms the

heart. And I just think ultimately, you know, look, yeah, there`s time for prosecution and I was a former prosecutor and certainly I prosecuted

enough.

But, you know, at the same time, I felt that there were other instances where you had to use your independent judgment. Here, it`s a teachable

moment. Could this child be prosecuted? Absolutely, but to what end?

Is there something larger here? Is there something bigger here? It`s a teachable moment before us, larger, you know, even than this tragic death

to save someone else. And so to my -- the point that I have, is I support what Joni is saying, and the fact is that so many other people could be

saved by the foundation they are setting up by the mental health issues that they are speaking to.

PINSKY: Joey, listen. You are singing to the choir.

JACKSON: Amen. Amen, doctor.

PINSKY: ... and look, who are we to second guess a parent that goes through something like this. I sort of how I look at it. But Brian, you are that

person.

CLAYPOOL: Yeah. Well, a couple things. I respect her view on this, as a Christian woman, and I`ve known you for a while, Drew. You know I`ve been

in the trenches working with bullied kids and abused kids over the past decade.

And I will tell you what I learned. I am a faith-based lawyer as well. And you can look at it two ways, her way, which is okay, the bible says there`s

peace in every circumstance, and she`s trying to look at a -- at a peaceful moment here and say, let`s remember my son and let`s move forward with

this. As Joey said, a teachable moment.

Here`s the other way you could look at it, also based on the bible, and the way I lived my life the past decade, which is sometimes when tragedy like

this happens, Drew, it -- it awakens that fire inside of us where we then can be a champion for the underdog and be a warrior to go out and make

change in society through the legacy that we leave for Reid. And that`s the way I look at it. They`re just two different views. I look at it as an

opportunity to make some change through this flat tire.

PINSKY: That`s how we leave it. Next up, a young woman says she was abducted and abused. Police say she made the whole thing up. We`ll talk

about it after this.

[19:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAM KEELER: They are saying that nothing she said happened, it was all made up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Major William Keeler of the New York State police is claiming 24-year-old Rachael Mattice never disappeared from her home in

Jonestown and none of her accounts about what happened are true.

On June 24th, Mattice was reported missing from her family`s campground. Mattice claimed she was knocked out while getting ready for work at the

campsite on June 23rd.

Before Mattice disappeared, she was under investigation for a theft from a person at her job. Law enforcement forces have told News 10 ABC that the

theft involved prescription drugs where she worked as a home health aide before she disappeared. Mattice didn`t know they were planning to interview

her about this.

PINSKY: Rachael Mattice was, she claims, knocked out, abducted, locked in a shed and assaulted by that man, who does not exist. Police say she told

them the man blindfolded her and dropped her off near her family`s home on July 6 after two weeks of captivity.

Back with Joey, Jena, John. Joey, the search cost well in the six figures, yet she is charged with a misdemeanor, max penalty a year in jail and a

thousand dollar fine. What about all the expense?

(LAUGHTER)

JACKSON: You know what? Maybe it`s the -- the soft side of me. But I get it. Certainly, you could elevate it to a felony. I think what she did was

improper, inappropriate, shouldn`t have happened. But maybe again, doctor, and you`re better than this than we all are. It`s a cry for help...

(CROSSTALK)

JACKSON: ... As a result of that, it requires compassion. That`s the defense.

(CROSSTALK)

PINKSY: ... treatment. Something happened to you. You`ve got some sort of weird -- somebody hypnotized you or something. Where did Joey go? But --

but -- but let me pull that picture back up again. What that stare in that picture you`re looking at right there? I had not seen that until just now.

It`s called a stare response, obviously, describing what you`re looking at there, and that is her in repose.

There`s only three things that will do that, hyperthyroidism, methamphetamine, and mania. Those are the three things that will do that.

And so, I`m gonna bet on either mania or methamphetamine. And police say that prior to her disappearance, she was a home health aide, and she was

wanted for questioning about the theft of prescription drugs related to her job. Shocking. No official...

[19:50:00] JACKSON: Should we put her in jail for the rest of her life, doctor? Is that the thing that they are going to do?

PINSKY: Well, Joey, here is what the viewers of my show scream me about, making excuses for people`s behavior. I`m looking for explanation. But to

your point, yes, I think we should mandate treatment, not the criminal justice system. John, help me out with this.

JOHN CARDILLO, FORMER OFFICER OF NYPD: Well, come on, I mean, Joey is being way too nice. This was somebody facing felony drug charges away on the lam

and made up a story about being abducted to get away with it, and she certainly should face a felony.

She wasted tremendous police resources that are pretty dangerous time in history. Hundreds of thousands of dollars of taxpayer money and may very

well have gotten away with the felony, theft of drugs, and potentially drug...

PINSKY: And possibly -- and possibly you`re right, John. I sense the drug dealing piece here too. But Jena, the thing is though she -- if she was in

methamphetamine or even in just manic psychosis, she may believe someone did that to her.

KRAVITZ: Absolutely. This is totally -- this is pathological. I mean, I wouldn`t be surprised if there was a substance abuse issue with underlying

characterological issues and potentially mood disorder. This is a mess.

PINSKY: That`s right. Now, after the...

JACKSON: Life in jail without parole.

JACKSON: Joey, are you listening? I`m with you. The fact that the criminal justice system is our mental health delivery system is insane. So, I`m with

you on that. But let me -- let me show you something where the injury kicks in here. This is the mom. After the daughter hoaxes, Rachael`s mom

maintains support for the abduction story. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WENDY MATTICE: I believe Rachael`s story. I strongly believe that he is still out there watching her. I don`t know what kind of evidence or

whatever that the investigators and troopers and everything have. This guy`s been watching her for a long time. He knew her every move.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: If there was a methamphetamine psychosis, she might have believed there was someone watching her for a long time. Convinced mom. Whatever.

Police say Rachael was seen by two hikers, even given a ride to family camp site by another witness during the time that she was abducted. So, I -- I,

you know, Jena, did mom is just sort of folie a deux? She`s into -- into the system with her.

KRAVITZ: Yeah, absolutely. But you know, Drew, I mean, drug users are pretty manipulative and sometimes they`re really persuasive. You can

believe them. So, I don`t blame mom. I mean, this is her daughter. She is standing behind her daughter and she believes her.

PINSKY: John, what are you laughing at? What John is laughing? What are you laughing at?

CARDILLO: I`m laughing -- that was -- I mean, look at that photo. It`s ridiculous. That a lawn gnome without a hat on. And who would ever buys

that?

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Listen, Shania Twain, unknowingly got rope into this alleged scheme. I`ll tell you about that after this.

[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rachael claims she was locked in a shed and repeatedly assaulted by this man, who police say does not exist. The police say

electronic evidence and medical findings don`t match up with Rachael`s claims.

And they say a man gave Rachael a ride to another family campsite. Police say two hikers also saw Rachael during the time she was missing.

PINSKY: And Rachael Mattice faces a year in jail, a thousand dollars fine for faking her own abduction.

Police are investigating whether she had anything to do as well with a prescription medication missing from her workplace. I wonder.

Back with Joey, Jena, John. Rachael`s family contacted Rachael`s idol Shania Twain and this is what Shania tweeted, quote, I`ve heard the story

of Rachael Mattice and urge anyone with information to come forward to the police and help her return to her family. She added, quote, thinking of

you, Rachael.

So Jena, even Shania Twain got wrapped into this. I guess it was a psychosis, right?

KRAVITZ: Either that or, you know, someone had said attention seeking. I think it`s a little exaggerated.

PINSKY: Well, no -- no. John said trying to go on the lam after getting accused of drug abduction, right? I mean, you just sort of -- you just come

up with a story -- John, is that what you said?

CARDILLO: Yeah, I mean, look, she knew she was probably facing felony charges for the theft to drugs, potentially dealing. What better way to

disappear than fake your disappearance?

PINSKY: Why did you sense dealing? I had that feeling too. Why did you sense dealing?

CARDILLO: Well, because, you know, because most users deal, right? Because they accelerate. I rarely found someone that stole drugs that didn`t use

half of them and try to get cash...

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: ... said if you got -- if she took enough at one time. Usually people trickle it out from their patients. Frankly, that`s what they do. If

you take enough to have a notice and there be police involvement, you`re doing something with that volume to try to stretch out what you`ve got.

Now, Rachael`s mom was dubious of witness accounts, the hikers, the motorist that they saw Rachael and gave her a ride. The mom said, she

thought it was the 2,000 dollar reward that brought people out. Joey, what do you think?

JACKSON: I think money is always a good incentive. But I tell you the biggest problem I do have with this admittedly is twofold.

Number one, you mentioned Shania Twain. You know, there are many celebrities who lend their voice to such great things. And this is

certainly something important. We want celebrities to bring people back home, but if they`re duped like this, what incentive in the future will

they have because they could be duped again.

And the second issue, Dr. Drew, briefly is the issue with resources. The deploying resources, officers away from people who really need it into

this. That`s a problem.

PINKSY: It is a problem and hopefully, somebody can get some compensation for that somewhere along the way. I don`t know.

JACKSON: Not from her.

PINSKY: Well, I suppose not. Thank you, Joey. I`ll figure out what happened to you. See you next time. What happened to Joey Jackson? I don`t know.

JACKSON: I`ll be back tomorrow.

PINSKY: Okay. Good. Excellent. Thank you, fellow. Job well done. We appreciate you all for watching. We`re still friend. We like to have you

participate with the show here with us.

We are here Monday through Thursday, but we proceed to our friend, Nancy Grace, who is up next.

END