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Dr. Drew
"Upskirting" Seemingly Legal In Georgia; The (Possibly Deadly) Obsession With Pokemon Go. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired July 26, 2016 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:00:00] DREW PINSKY, DR. DREW ON CALL SHOW HOST: An African-American woman body slam for speeding. That`s what happened. Austin police officers
in hot water tonight for a violent arrest caught on their own dash cam. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma`am, take a seat back in the car, please. Take a seat back in your vehicle, please. OK, ma`am, you`re being pulled over right
now, so I need you to take a seat back in your car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you serious?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, ma`am. I`m not joking. Let me see your driver`s license.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Take a seat back in your car so we can close the door. Put your feet in the car so I can close the door, please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Could you please hurry up?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, ma`am. Stand up for me, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don`t touch me. No, why are you touching me?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out. Stop resisting. Stop resisting. Stop resisting. Get out of the car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m getting out. Let me get out. Do not touch me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh! Oh, my God.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put your hands behind your back!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put your hands behind your back! You`re under arrest. Put your hands behind your back!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why are you doing this to me?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put your hands behind your back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God. Are you serious?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put your hands behind your back. I`m about to tase you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (muted).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put your hands behind your back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will you let me get down, please?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get down.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you (muted) kidding me?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put your hands behind your back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God. That`s what I was doing. Are you serious?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get down. Get down. Don`t stand up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m not trying to stand up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: The woman in the video, Brianne King, was charged with resisting arrest, but the county attorney dismissed her case after seeing that dash
cam video.
The officer, Brian Richter was given counseling and additional training. No charges have been filed against him.
Joining me, Yodit Tewolde, attorney; Mike Dow, clinical psychologist, author of "The Brain Fog Fix," Randy Sutton, former Lieutenant with the Las
Vegas Metropolitan Police Department and founder of Blue Lives Matter.
Yodit, the officer has been on the job for a year since this tape. What do you think?
YODIT TEWOLDE, ATTORNEY: You know what, this is just, again, another situation where you have a police officer using excessive force in a
situation that does not warrant it. Police officers are required to use the minimum amount of force necessary when dealing with suspects.
This officer threw his actions, just basically saying, he had no other options in dealing with the situation. They are trained to deescalate
situation, but we don`t even see an escalation in the situation here.
It`s just another sad situation where I think he needs to be charged. Yes. He needs counseling. He needs training. But he needs to be charged with an
assault because that`s what happened here.
PINSKY: I think it didn`t end tragically. You know, the officer`s report says Brianne King had a, quote, "uncooperative attitude and resisted by
wrapping her arms around her steering wheel." So, Randy, how should the officer have dealt with this? And I`m sure you have issues with this as
well?
RANDY SUTTON, FORMER LAS VEGAS MPD OFFICER: I do have. The issue that I have with this is I think it could have been handled at the very beginning
with a much more deescalate kind of action.
Now, that being said, the officer was very polite at first. He asked her to get back in the car. And the reason he did that is because he wanted to
control her movement. When a police officer -- I mean, let`s go right from the beginning, it was legitimate to stop her, the answer is yes. She was
speeding.
Was it legitimate to ask for a driver`s license registration, et cetera, yes. He asked her to step back in the car. Did she? No, she didn`t. How
many times did he ask her? Three or four times. At the point, at that point, he said, you know what, I`ve done with this. I`m going to arrest
her.
Now, would everybody have done that? No, probably not. But once he made the decision to arrest her and then he asked her to get out of the car, she
wouldn`t. Well, he`s get to her out of the car.
So, she, clearly did resist arrest. There`s no absolutely no doubt about that. You could see that in the tape. Now, could it have been handled at
the outset a little better? I believe it could have. But the fact of the matter is, she did resist arrest.
PINSKY: Randy, listen, I`m not a police officer. I`m watching this tape. It looks like way too much force. So, what`s going on in an officer`s head
when he`s -- I want to be sympathetic to that officer did. Is he afraid? Is he thinking this woman is going to pull a gun? What`s going on in his head?
SUTTON: Well, when he asked her to comply, she didn`t comply.
PINSKY: Yes, but so what? But so what?
(CROSSTALK)
SUTTON: At some point this got to say, look.
TEWOLDE: That`s not natural. We`re watching two second videos.
PINSKY: That`s why hey, you`re resisting my authority, I`ll show you? That`s shouldn`t be the police officer`s point of view. Should they?
TEWOLDE: She was complying, sir. She was complying.
PINSKY: But let`s say she wasn`t. His thing should be I got to solve the situation not assert my authority, right?
[19:05:05] SUTTON: That`s why I`m saying he could have deescalated much greater at the outset of the traffic stop. At which point, remember, he did
ask to get back in her car. And the reason he did that was for the officer`s safety reasons, because to control her movement.
PINSKY: Right.
SUTTON: That`s standard practice.
PINSKY: Yes, I get it.
SUTTON: Otherwise, he would have to if she`s out of the car -- excuse me, if she`s out of the car, then he`s got to pat her down to make sure she
doesn`t have any weapons.
PINSKY: Right.
SUTTON: And then he`s going to look like an idiot for doing that. So, he told her to get back in the car. Well, how many times do you have to tell
somebody?
PINSKY: Well, I don`t know. That`s why I wondering.
SUTTON: But why.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Mike, help me out here. Hold on, Yodit. Hold on. Mike, go ahead.
MIKE DOW, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: I just don`t buy that. You know, yes, yes, did he ask her to get out of the car? Absolutely. But, man, that
police officer went from 0 to 100. And when you look at the violence, when you look at the kind of trauma, you know, he went to counseling.
Now she`s probably going to be diagnosed with PTSD, she could have years of therapy ahead of her after that kind of violence. And you have to really
look at, you know, yes, was she a little bit irritated when she said, you know, can you hurry up.
She was probably a little bit nervous. She was probably a little bit, we all get in a bad mood when we get pulled over. Have you ever been pulled
over? But does it warrant that kind of violence? I don`t think...
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: And let me add a little wrinkle to all this. Under state civil service law, the police chief cannot take disciplinary action against the
officer before this incident because it did happened more than six months ago. The police chief did issue a public apology. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m sorry that on the day that you were stopped for going 15 miles per hour you were approached in a manner and treated in a
manner that`s not consistent with the expectations of this police chief, of most of the officers of this police department, and most importantly, I
think of all of us as human beings.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: All right. So, to me, that seems like a sensible, sensible apology. Now, the woman, the victim, Brianne King says she did not file the
complaint at that time because she was embarrassed and did not know that a client was an option.
Now, Mike, my question to you as you said she might have PTSD. I know the officer isn`t going to understand this, but I`m going to predict she
apparently reported that she -- that she doesn`t remember what happened.
I wonder if she was totally disassociated, maybe she`s already a PTSD person and the attack just triggered her into an out of body state where
she blacked out and really doesn`t know what the hell was going on, and of course that will trigger more PTSD symptoms.
DOW: Absolutely. And you know, that also may explain her initial reaction as well.
PINSKY: Exactly.
DOW: If she doesn`t remember what happened, this is going to be a case where she`s going to probably need possibly years of very expensive
treatment. Some of the symptoms of PTSD are very distressing.
You know, we see these symptoms and all of the problems how they are linked to depression, anxiety even substance abuse because you can`t sleep. You`re
getting these flashbacks. They`re extremely traumatic for people.
PINSKY: Yes. And again, when someone resists irrationally like that, you got to think there`s an irrational source, and I would imagine something
had happened to her maybe and that`s what is triggering her, and then she reports she didn`t think -- didn`t report any because she didn`t really --
she was out of body, she described it as.
Next up, the situation took another shocking turn after police put her in a patrol car. We have that video.
And later, why would a grown man look up a woman`s skirt? Well, in Georgia, it`s because he can. Back after this.
MELISSA KNOWLES, HLN CORRESPONDET: I`m Melissa Knowles with your T-Mobile daily share at this hour.
Now for the video that`s been taking over our newsroom. A young red tailed hawk spent some time checked himself out in a Nebraska news station tower
cam. They say he visits the camera a lot, but never looked into it as he did yesterday.
They put the clip on Facebook, and it`s taking off with more than 9,000 shares already.
Put this into this exists file. People are lining up to stuff their faces with frosting stuffed croissant, it`s being sold in New York at red bell
croissant filled with cream cheese custard and topped with a glaze and cake crumbs.
The same guy who invented the cinnamon rolls stuffed donut invented this. Their croissant sell for five bucks each.
[19:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Brianna King is an elementary school teacher who was pulled over for speeding then thrown to the ground by a police officer.
Here now is more of the video of her arrest captured on dash cam video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ouch! Look at him. He`s treating me like (muted) I didn`t do anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get on the floor. Spread your feet.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What are you doing? I need a black police.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Walk.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because you`re full of (muted).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Yodit, Mike, and Randy. Our panel.
Now she apparently asked for a black officer. Is that appropriate, Randy? Would that change anything?
SUTTON: No, of course it`s not appropriate. This isn`t -- this isn`t a buffet of police work. You know, you get what -- I`m surprised that they
actually called another police officer to transport her. And here`s where - - here`s where this is very interesting to me.
So, they accommodated her. They brought another officer in to transport her, and then she engaged in conversation in a very civil conversation with
this officer. Which kind of, in my eyes, kind of throws a little PTSD part out of this whole -- out of this whole deal.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Well, not necessarily. I know what you mean, Randy. Let`s look at it. Let`s look at it.
SUTTON: All right.
PINSKY: Let`s play it and then let`s see if she seems disassociated or fully engaged. As Randy said, she requested an officer to drive her to the
station, and in that squad car, she talked to the new officer about race. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you still believe that there is racism out there?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I do. But let me ask you this, let me ask you this, do you believe it goes both ways?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I believe in that. I do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do, too.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just -- I believe that, I`m not going to lie. I believe that Caucasians have more supremacy than we do. They have more
rights.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t think that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A lot more people are little afraid of black people because of everything, honestly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why -- well, let me ask you this, why are so many people afraid of black people?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s what I want to figure out because I`m not a bad black person.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can -- I can give you a really good idea why it might be that way.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Violent tendencies. Ninety nine percent of the time when you hear about stuff like that, it is the black community that is
being violent. That`s why a lot of the white people are afraid. And I don`t blame them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And, Randy, I guess this is a black officer saying this?
SUTTON: I don`t know -- I don`t know the race of the officer, Dr. Drew. I don`t know.
PINSKY: OK.
(CROSSTALK)
TEWOLDE: No, those are white officer.
[19:15:01] PINSKY: It`s a white officer. It`s a white officer. OK.
SUTTON: OK.
TEWOLDE: Yes.
SUTTON: So the officer`s having a civil conversation. He`s engaging her in conversation. He`s answering her questions, and they are actually having a
kind of a good give and take there.
Now, here`s the thing. That normally, when you`re transporting somebody to jail, they`re in the back of the car, and that`s pretty much the end of it.
You`re transporting someone. He went out of his way to engage her in this, basically philosophical conversation. And now, because of...
(CROSSTALK)
TEWOLDE: What?
SUTTON: ... a couple of the things...
TEWOLDE: Come on.
DOW: Civil and philosophical? That sounds like a racist conversation to me.
TEWOLDE: Come on.
DOW: A racist conversation.
SUTTON: No, no. Hold on a second. Hold on a second.
PINSKY: Randy, go ahead.
SUTTON: Wait a minute, before you -- now we just saw a very, very edited couple seconds of that videotape. I would like to hear the whole videotape
in order to really get an idea of what the conversation truly was because we only saw a couple seconds of it. But what I mean, my point is...
(CROSSTALK)
DOW: I think we...
SUTTON: ... if he just -- if he just threw her in the back, it would have been the end of it, no one would have said anything.
PINSKY: All right.
SUTTON: He was trying to be nice to her.
PINSKY: Let me get to Yodit. Some of the stuff he saying that hits you in the gut, doesn`t it?
TEWOLDE: OK. Listen. Randy, I have to address what you just said because you act as if someone was twisting this officer`s arm to engage in
conversation with her. I`ve seen plenty of in-car transport videos where officers actually ignore the arrestee`s conversation and just proceed with
what they are doing.
PINSKY: But that`s his point.
TEWOLDE: But this officer point...
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: You know, Yodit, that`s his point.
TEWOLDE: But he was -- right, but he was -- but he was engaged. He wanted to have this conversation because he wanted to prove a point. He wanted to
prove the point of, one, African-Americans have violent tendencies, that African-American look more intimidating, that he understands why whites are
afraid of African-Americans.
And he`s saying all of this while being recorded. I don`t need to see the rest. I have a problem with what he`s saying right then and there. That`s a
problem. And he shouldn`t be an officer wearing a uniform and carrying a gun, period.
SUTTON: Listen. I think some of the things he said didn`t make -- I found objectionable as well. Well, but my point is that while he was having this
conversation...
(CROSSTALK)
TEWOLDE: Racist. We`re racists.
SUTTON: I believe that some of those comments were racist. I`m agreeing with you. What I`m saying is that I would have like to see the entire
conversation because it was civil because, and listen, because he has -- he has his viewpoints and he`s directing them towards him in the civil
discourse, I think that it may be a little bit -- I think you may be a limit overreacting.
PINSKY: Well, it`s -- there`s a -- go ahead, Yodit.
TEWOLDE: Overreacting? Randy, but doesn`t it -- doesn`t -- don`t you think about what he is saying and maybe thinking about how many encounters he`s
had with African-Americans and how they may have resulted based off of this logic or thinking? That is a problem.
So when you say that we may be overreacting and you just said that the statements were racist, racist and overreacting, you have a public servant
who is saying racist things and that`s overreacting?
SUTTON: Yes. I would be very, very -- you know...
(CROSSTALK)
TEWOLDE: Come on. Come on.
SUTTON: So, clearly, we`ve heard enough. I heard enough of that conversation to know that this police officer clearly has a point of view
where he has a racial bias against African-Americans, and then to have him be serving the community is a very dangerous thing, especially given in
light of everything that`s happening around this country.
I think we have to be very -- we have to be very cautious and we have to make sure that we are treating people with respect and you look at the
violence, look at some of the things that President Obama has had to address. It`s actually -- it`s just upsetting.
PINSKY: Yes. I think I want to leave it right there.
Next up, up skirting. Do you know, apparently this phenomenon is legal in Georgia. That`s right, looking up women`s dresses. This guy did it on the
job in the grocery store and that`s just OK. Yes. I`ll tell you about it.
And later, Pokemon Go. People are doing this falling off the cliffs, getting run over, driving into trees, all of this because of a video game.
We`ll get into it after this.
[19:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t understand. You`re woman`s dress anyways.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Due to a technicality, judge`s recently ruled invasion of privacy in Georgia doesn`t include sneaking a photo up a woman`s skirt
in a public place like a park or supermarket.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What? No. That`s not OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This man had the nerve to do it in Houston County public store. The Georgia Court of Appeals ruled "Because it was in a
public place, it`s not illegal."
PINSKY: It is legal in Georgia to so-called up skirt women. A grocery store -- a grocery store clerk caught taking pictures of a woman`s skirt
just had his conviction overturn. The judge ruling that the law, quote, "Does not criminalize the observation or filming of an individual who is in
a public place."
Back with Yodit, and Mike, and joining Troy Leighton, criminal defense attorney and Logan Levkoff, sexuality educator.
Yodit, you`re my legal expert here, well, Troy, you`re here, too. But again, her opinion first. But, what the hell? What the hell? So, if I`m in
the privacy of my own home, well, there it`s illegal, but if I just happen to, I don`t know, cruise by your law offices, there it`s fine if you`re in
Georgia?
TEWOLDE: Right. And here`s the thing. I understand why some of the judges were saying that the word place meant location and not body part.
However, the area under my skirt is a private place. It`s out of public view. And I do have a reasonable expectation of privacy, so that means no
one should be able to know the color of my draws or even know that I`m wearing any period.
[19:24:59] That is a problem. It`s almost like walking down the street in a public place and someone being able to go into your purse because, hey,
it`s a public place. Well, no, you can`t go in my purse so that means you can`t go up my skirt. You shouldn`t see that area. No, it`s ridiculous.
PINSKY: Now it just occurs to me, Troy, that, you know, this is a sexist ruling. Because you can`t go in a man`s pocket or you can`t -- you know,
and the fact...
TEWOLDE: Right.
PINSKY: ... Or is Detroit going too far in sort of interpreting the law as suggesting the private place is a bodily place as opposed to a place in
space?
TROY LEIGHTON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Look, Dr. Drew, nobody is saying that what this guy did was good or right or even should be legal. In fact,
the judge that wrote the opinion overturning his conviction said that Georgia needs to fix the law. This is sloppy drafting.
We don`t want judges legislating from the bench and making up laws. The law was poorly drafted by the legislature, and they need to fix it. So, it`s
not that Georgia was saying that this is OK and that people should do this, they`re just saying that right now, the law doesn`t make it illegal.
PINSKY: Well, right now, people will try to get away with this, will they not?
TEWOLDE: Right.
LEIGHTON: They may.
TEWOLDE: Right.
LEIGHTON: They may very well.
PINSKY: All right.
LEIGHTON: I mean, this is gotten out there. It`s public.
PINSKY: Logan, please, as a woman, just explain to me.
LOGAN LEVKOFF, SEXUALITY EDUCATOR: Yes.
PINSKY: You know, with the outrage you must be feeling. The attorneys are still so focused on the laws themselves, help me out here.
LEVKOFF: Yes, outrage. It`s ridiculous. And it`s so counterintuitive to what we do in sexuality and consent-based education. We talk about having a
voice, asking permission, being comfortable saying yes or saying no, and hearing it and respecting that answer.
And here we have a law that says all of that could be thrown right out the window. Don`t worry. And it`s also very much blaming the skirt wearers as
if the burden is on us to prevent anything from happening. It`s terrible.
PINSKY: You know, Logan, you framed that so nicely. It makes me -- no, really, makes me want to look at the Georgia legislature and use, you know,
it`s a shame on them. Shame on them.
LEVKOFF: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
LEIGHTON: No, Dr. Drew --
PINSKY: Troy, I`d like to be able to shame the attorneys that are with me here as well. Trust me.
TEWOLDE Wait, Dr. Drew, I`m not...
LEIGHTON: Dr. Drew, they didn`t do that.
PINSKY: But shame on the legislators for allowing this to be the way it is.
LEIGHTON: They didn`t do it on purpose, it`s just that the law hasn`t kept up with technology.
TEWOLDE: No.
LEIGHTON: In the old days, you know, young boys and people would have to go and have to actually go in, you know, pull-up the skirt and look at it.
PINSKY: Troy, I didn`t want to know about your weird habits. Do you tell me about this, what...
LEIGHTON: I haven`t done this for years, Dr. Drew.
TEWOLDE: How many -- I know Troy has heard about these kinds of cases time and time again. It`s happened over a number of years now. Why is the
lawmakers -- why are the lawmakers in Georgia behind? We`ve seen these cases...
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Shame on them. Shame on them, you`re right.
TEWOLDE: Shame on them. You`re right. Yes.
TEWOLDE: So, basically, what they -- so what they`re saying is that until the legislative session occurs next year, we pretty much -- there`s
unfettered access up a woman`s skirt. That`s a problem.
PINSKY: All right. Mike, let me talk about why someone might do something like this. It`s hard for me to, like, get me my around, and I think I
understand human behavior, do you have any further insight into this?
DOW: Yes. You know...
PINSKY: Go ahead.
DOW: In terms of -- in terms of why people do this, so people who have fetishes, especially we find this in the male brain, they sort of confuse
dopamine and that upper adrenaline.
So, if you were doing something that you were not supposed to be doing, you`re not only getting dopamine which is that neurochemical we feel when
we`re attracted to somebody, but you`re also getting that other upper in the brain.
You`re getting adrenaline. So, now it`s dangerous. Now, for somebody who is a sex addict, that becomes problematic. Because now they need even more of
an upper to feel something that all of us can get in a safe healthy way.
PINSKY: Yes.
DOW: And I think the legislators are missing something here, and it`s that they -- these women are being violated. So, if a woman is raped in a public
place and it`s filmed, is that not violating her?
PINSKY: Yes.
DOW: You know, it`s like their sticking this letter of the law so black or white.
PINSKY: Right.
DOW: And we`re forgetting about it...
(CROSSTALK)
LEVKOFF: And there`s also...
PINSKY: And, Logan -- I`m going to go -- hold on, hold on, because I want to go back to you again.
LEVKOFF: Sure.
PINSKY: And you go head state in other problem, but Mike brings up an excellent point, you framed it so well before. Let`s go state whatever
point you want to make and reframe again the issue of consent because it is so important.
LEVKOFF: We talk about the importance of consent that it`s a fundamental right. We need to agree. We need to ask for permission. We need to be
comfortable saying yes or saying no, and respecting that decision.
This is counterintuitive to everything we do in education, in policy, in parenting and think about when that translate into home.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Hey, college campuses. College campuses, we have the, you know, what -- the kids have been complaining about the rape culture. This is --
this is not helping matters.
LEVKOFF: No, it`s not helping at all, and it`s also suggesting that men are innately predatory. And I am uncomfortable making that statement.
PINSKY: Now as of right now, Georgia`s invasion of privacy act says it is illegal for anyone to observe, photograph, or record another person without
their consent in any private place and out of public view.
[19:30:02] Yodit, why -- what were they doing? Why did they do it that way? And I know you will interpret your private place as something within your
body boundary.
(CROSSTALK)
TEWOLDE: Under my skirt.
PINSKY: Yeah. But I don`t think it has -- obviously, it does not have to be interpreted that way. They left the law open to the judge.
TEWOLDE: No. That`s where the law is written so badly. I mean, what they`re saying is that it -- it has to be in a private place where you have a
reasonable expectation of privacy, so when you`re out in a store and that`s considered public, that already negates that private requirement.
But what I`m arguing, and I think that the other three judges who overruled essentially were arguing this point, that what was underneath the skirt is
out of public view and is a private area and should be respected as such, and there is a reasonable expectation of privacy, and that`s what I`m
saying.
No one can see what`s going on under my skirt. So, that`s out of public view. So, I`m not really sure why -- I mean, get why they -- they ruled the
way they did, but I could see a loophole, I could see another argument being made.
PINSKY: All right. So what happens now? Do women all over Georgia have to worry about men looking up skirts? We`ll talk more later.
TEWOLDE: Obviously.
PINSKY: Well. Later, why are people putting life and limb on the line to play Pokemon Go? We`ll get into it. I have some outrageous video. You`ll
see it after this.
[19:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When somebody who is creepy as hell takes a phone and sticks it up underneath the skirt, that is exactly the kind of behavior
that Peeping Tom laws were trying to criminalize.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now the Georgia Court of Appeals ruling makes upskirting or taking video under a person`s skirt legal.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It makes things sick, doesn`t it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`d say put the thongs in the drawer and get out the shapewear.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: The court in Georgia has ruled that it is legal evidently to take pictures up a female`s skirt so long as they`re in a public place, grocery
store, sidewalk. Fantastic. Back with Yodit, Mike, Troy, and Logan.
Troy, two years ago, the same thing happened in Massachusetts. That state law was quickly amended. Now, that was a national media story. Why do you
figure other states did not sort of catch on?
TROY SLATEN, ATTORNEY: You know,legislatures are slow. But I think the judges here did exactly what we want them to do. They interpreted the law
as it`s written. We don`t want judges suddenly trying to be car-knack (ph) and figure out what the legislators may have thought.
We want them to interpret the law as it`s written. Words matter. And so, the legislature is going to have to fix it. And they will very shortly.
PINSKY: But -- but Yodit, isn`t that exactly what all the different judges were trying to do, is interpret the law that was sloppily written?
TEWOLDE: Right. And that`s why it was a divide between -- at 6-3. So, I mean, yes, they were having a healthy debate as to...
PINSKY: Healthy.
TEWOLDE: ... displace the word "place"...
(CROSSTALK)
TEWOLDE: I know. I mean, come on, Dr. Drew. They do have -- they do have a job. They are judges just like Troy said...
PINSKY: And it was a female judge. A female judge wrote the opinion.
TEWOLDE: Right. Right. Right. And there was -- there was -- it`s poorly written, the law is poorly written. There was room to interpret what the
word "place" was or what it meant.
So, yeah, there has to be a debate, there has to be an agreement, and they ruled the way they were supposed to.
PINSKY: Logan, you`re trying to get in here. Go ahead.
LOGAN LEVKOFF, SEXUALITY EDUCATOR: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, debate and law aside, what does this mean for us in real life? It means that it doesn`t
make a difference what the laws are.
In our homes, when we give young people phones, we make them sign a contract and spell out all the expectations for them, so that they know how
to engage in healthy behavior, because clearly the law needs work.
PINSKY: And Mike, you know, the whole cyber world these days is treacherous enough for young people. Now they have the sort of -- this is like an
unclear boundary for them. Really, something as simple as this. Young people are going to be interpreting as they wish?
MIKE DOW, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Yeah. There`s -- there`s certainly a lot for parents to worry about and a lot for parents to talk about in ways to
keep their children safe.
And you know, I`d also like to say that for these men who are doing this, they also need to seek treatment because clearly, they are not probably
able to have healthy sexual relationships or romantic relationships if these are the kind of acts they`re -- they`re engage in.
PINSKY: Yeah. Let`s have that conversation very quickly which is -- what you`re saying is somebody that is engaged in this kind of behavior, it`s
not just, oh, there`s a creep or oh this is some sort of a -- I don`t know, some behavior we can`t understand.
We can understand it as part as some sort of sexual compulsion and is in fact the thrill of arousal that people like these are going for. They --
there are various roads to this problem, but the bottom line is they don`t feel normal levels of arousal and have to trigger extra high levels of
arousal in order to feel okay and gratified.
DOW: That`s right. And - and listen. There are some cases, you know, even in -- in S&M communities, it is a safe, sane and consensual agreement. So,
if you were somebody who is having a consensual relationship and you enjoy that with your partner, then that will be okay.
This is not the case of consensual. So, when -- and when you have somebody who could be -- by the way, there are cases I consulted on where, you know,
frotteurs, people who are rubbing up against people without consent in the subway have gone to prison for 10-20 years for -- for acts that are
actually quite similar to this. A lot of these people have a sex addiction...
PINSKY: And less -- and less invasive. Let`s be honest, I mean, frotteurism can be terrible, I don`t want to minimize that, but this is so overtly
invasive.
Again, Logan, arguing with you one more time. Talk to us about consent. Talk to us about how big an issue this is on college campus.
LEVKOFF: Yeah. Huge issue.
PINSKY: And Troy, I`ll let you have last word then we`ll move on. Go ahead.
LEVKOFF: Alright. Huge issue. It`s our responsibility to teach people to ask for permission, to be able to say yes and own your voice or say no and
hear that answer and respect it.
PINSKY: Troy, I know you believe that. I know you`re playing devil`s advocate in some of this. I`m going to give you one last chance.
[19:40:00] SLATEN: No. I agree that what the guy did was wrong. It was morally reprehensible. But he didn`t break the law. So, the law worked
here. If somebody doesn`t do what the legislature says, you -- you -- you must do or can`t do, then the judges need to interpret the law the way that
it`s written.
PINSKY: All right. I`m going to go back to my original position. Shame on the legislature in Georgia. Shame on it. Get on this, guys, come on now.
Next up, what is it about Pokemon Go. Millions of people are playing. Some seem to be even willing to risk their lives for this silly game. Back after
this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is Pokemon Go, and why won`t it go away? The mobile app has 21 million daily users, making it the biggest mobile game in U.S.
history.
Players are obsessed with chasing and catching virtual characters on their phones, some have nearly been killed. A teen hit by a car after she crossed
a busy highway.
[19:45:00] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She found the Pokemon, was all excited, was coming home to tell mom. She found the Pokemon.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The car came up the hill, and I was in the middle, I tried to get out of the way so I did not get hit.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The game dragged her across the highway.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A teenage boy struck by lightning engrossed in the game.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was just really dark. You know, on my phone, and then everything kind of just went black.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A pack of players targeted by an armed robber.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Player Corey Williams can see why the players were threatened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do think that a lot of people see them as targets because a lot of times, most people have portable charges, backup phones,
this phone goes dead, let`s use this phone. So it`s like they have multiple hundreds of dollars of electronics with them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:45:00] PINSKY: All right. Hold on. I`ve got -- I`ve got a Charmander here. I`m trying to get with the PokeBall. Why won`t it -- why won`t --
it`s over here. So I -- I oh, hang on a second.
Yeah. Just when you thought you`ve seen it all, it comes to a Pokemon Go. There`s more. Somebody has gone somewhere with this. I want to show you
what Admiral John Kirby at the State Department during a briefing on ISIS was subject to. Take a look at this.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KIRBY, ADMIRAL, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT: As the Secretary said earlier today, though, and I think it`s important reminder, you`re playing the
Pokemon thing right there, aren`t you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m just keeping my eye on it.
KIRBY: It`s important reminder. We know this won`t be easy. We recognize it`s a challenge. We`re clear-eyed about the work we still have to do. This
is why we convene this important Ministerial, and will continue to work with our coalition partners to defeat Daesh.
Did you get one?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. No, the signal is not very good.
KIRBY: Sorry about that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: It is not easy to get them, either, by the way, the Charmander is doing me a lot of trouble. I`m back with Yodit, Mike, Randy. Joining us,
Katie Linendoll, tech expert.
Pokemon Go is causing injury, controversy, it`s interrupting television programming, it`s interrupting defense briefings. I`m going to get to all
that just a second. But first, Katie, give people the basics on what this thing is. It`s a little addictive. I just got into it here and I just want
to get that Charmander.
KATIE LINENDOLL, TECH EXPERT: It`s a little addictive. And I will tell you that in the middle of the highway today, there was a Charmander. I was
smart enough to not go for it, but yes, 26 million strong...
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Are you suggesting that this television show, that -- that I should take the -- I should take the show as seriously as you took the highway?
How dare you. But go ahead. Please tell us about it. Continue.
LINENDOLL: I know. So let me continue here. What`s interesting is everybody from the consumers to mobile app developers are always looking for the next
big thing in mobile.
And what`s happening now is augmented reality and virtual reality. Pokemon Go is taking advantage of augmented reality, so it`s kind of an overlay of
a digital other world. So, when you`re walking around, yes, you are literally walking around, but you`re walking around in this Pokemon world,
so you see these little Pokemons popping up that you have to go catch.
So, yes, it is getting very crazy because people are getting into these other realities of where they`re getting into trouble crossing the border
from Canada to Mexico trying to catch a Pokemon.
They`re actually unwillingly stepping on to dead bodies people have found, but on the good side, let`s take a look at this. For the first time ever,
Pokemon Go was higher in searches than porn on July 11.
PINSKY: Oh, something -- something to be grateful for. Something finally has -- has -- has exceeded pornography. But Mike, let`s get into the
compulsion about this a little bit.
I mean, my son tells me it is a good thing. It is a good thing. People are out. They`re moving around. They`re socializing even though they are kind
of down on their phones, they`re bumping into each other at least.
DOW: You know, I -- I -- I agree with you. You know, were -- were getting away from sitting disease and so many people who are addicted to video
games are sedentary that causes all sorts of health problems, but then we also have to realize that every time you get that little ding on your
phone, whether that`s Instagram-like or you`re catching another Pokemon, it releases a little hit of dopamine, right?
PINSKY: Yup.
DOW: And just like somebody who is taking a, you know, hit of cocaine or a drink of alcohol, sometimes for some people, that dopamine can become very
addictive. It`s very alluring. It feels good.
PINSKY: Or at least compulsive. At least rewarding to the point that the behaviors get repeated maybe a little more than they should.
DOW: Yes.
PINSKY: Two Baltimore police officers were standing outside the squad car at 3:30 in the morning when their squad car was hit by another car. First
watch, then listen.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, nobody was in the car. You guys okay?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Alright. Randy, fortunately no one got hurt in that particular instance, but are you concerned that it`s -- it`s at very least, it`s --
it`s increasing the burden on first responders.
[19:50:00] RANDY SUTTON, LAS VEGAS METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPARTMENT (RET): Oh, yeah, it is. I mean, that`s a perfect example. I think every generation
has had some type of weird trend.
I mean, the 20`s people were swallowing goldfish, you know, and now this is the modern equivalent of this. But you`re seeing people actually walking
off cliffs. You`re seeing them -- them become victims themselves, because they`re so engrossed that they`ve lost track of their surroundings.
So, there`s this big common sense loss, if you will, where people are just so engrossed in this, and of course now it -- it bleeds out into -- into
the world of first responders.
PINSKY: Yup. Yodit, if someone gets into an accident or gets, you know, I`ve -- I`ve heard all kinds of bizarre stories people like are breaking
in...
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: ...or they`re trespassing or get shot or crazy stuff. My question is, can the game get blamed?
TEWOLDE: No.
PINSKY: Why?
TEWOLDE: And see I knew you`re going to ask that question. No, you can`t use that as a defense. And I would laugh if I ever heard anybody or even a
client suggest that I use that as a defense. Absolutely not.
You have to take responsibility. Especially adults in this situation. You have to be able to tell between the Pokemon world and reality. There`s no
excuse. Falling off a cliff? Is that serious?
Now, what I do have concern with are kids. Kids being led into hazardous areas and kids being led into areas where there are registered offenders.
That is a problem.
But we don`t need to be, you know, sending cops on these chases for criminal trespassing and situations where people are running into their
vehicles. They need to handle other situations.
I think this game is causing more problems for -- for people that is so unnecessary.
PINSKY: I know how attorneys think. There`s a big deep pocket here. I`m surprised you don`t want to go after a Pokemon.
TEWOLDE: Hey, I haven`t gotten -- I haven`t gotten anybody -- anybody that has had any issue with the Pokemon but I`m sure it`s coming.
PINSKY: Alright. Well, what I`ve got coming next is a Pokemon poll result. I`ll give you that after the break. Whether you are viewer pro or con on
Pokemon. Is it a good thing or bad thing? Back after this.
[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Call it Pokemon pandemonium as the map based game explodes in popularity, players are flooding into public spaces. All those
Pokemon explorers are bumping up against private spaces. SickKids Hospital posted a message asking people not to drop lures. James Roy created a sign
to stop players from trampling his garden.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three nights in a row, we had people asking and sort of trying to get in through the other gate of our -- of our yard. And you
know, I thought, well like, you know, we have Kale here. We can`t have that like stomped over and stuff.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Don`t want to stomp on his Kale.
Pokemon Go is causing controversy, in some cases, injury and controversy. Even on this program, people on twitter, a guy named Timothy William was
saying, disconcerting talk about Pokemon Go when a game does way more good than harm.
It`s bringing people together from all walks. And that`s what my son has been telling me. So, I know that`s a younger person`s, I beg, giving me
that opinion.
We asked you the viewers. Are you pro or no on Pokemon Go? 31 percent are for it. 69 percent say no. Back with Yodit, Mike, Randy, and Katie. Katie,
does that surprise you? Our viewers` response?
LINENDOLL: Dr. Drew, you got to pull in a younger millennial audience.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: So, let me -- let me ask you this. So, your experience is the same as mine? Young people, Timothy there on Twitter, they`re all really for
this. They`re socially engaged. Isn`t that funny that this is social engagement? That this is social engagement, but okay, but that`s what
you`re experiencing too?
LINENDOLL: Actually, I will take that back in a second though because I`m actually surprised because Pokemon franchise does cross over decades. I`m
starting to see a lot of people that are in their 20s and 30s actually playing it.
I`ve had longer dialogue with my pharmacist about Pokemon and also with just people that are older that are surprising me. And I think the average
demographic is 63 percent female, over 20 years old, and a 90,000 dollar income. So, that...
PINSKY: Wow.
LINENDOLL: ... might change things in terms of the demographics.
PINSKY: No. Yeah. And Mike, to your point about the dopamine, when I was playing it, it hooks you. It first gets you a local Pokemon and a good one.
And then it makes you ago little further, you know, the pretty more common place. And then an obscure one little farther out and now you`re in.
There`s also a me, making it`s way around social media. It`s Clint Eastwood hanging out on a beer in hand and says quote, any adult male -- oh this is
from his movie -- adult male -- what was that movie called? Somebody`s got to help me. Who plays this Pokemon blip -- yeah -- Gran Torino -- whoever
plays this Pokemon blip needs to immediately turn in his man card.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: So, Randy, turn in your man card. I mean, it`s -- come on. It is just fun.
SUTTON: Not me, not me. That game is little beyond me.
PINSKY: Not for you?
SUTTON: I`m not up to that technology. It`s too -- it`s too advanced for me. I think we just might see a few too many candidates for the Darwin
award, should some people start walking off the cliffs here.
PINSKY: And that, I think, was your point as well, which is people need to be taking personal responsibility for this, even though it is a big deep
pocket there, you`re an attorney, I know you guys think.
TEWOLDE: No. Dr. Drew, I don`t know. You said that you let your son play. I know you give him warnings about where to go and where not to go. I mean,
people aren`t aware of their surroundings.
And honestly, you talking about how obsessive this game is, actually keeps me away from even wanting to start it...
PINSKY: Well, good.
TEWOLDE: ... I don`t even want to get into that problem.
PINSKY: My son is not a child. He`s 24 years old. He was saying -- yeah -- out on the -- yeah -- out on the Santa Monica computer that -- that people
were out there in large numbers, but that was a good thing. They were all gathering, going after Pokemon.
Thank you all. Thank you all for watching. Thank you, panel. I appreciate you guys for your participation. Do tell a friend about the show. We are
here every day. And Nancy Grace, our dear friend, comes up next.
[20:00:00]
END
