Return to Transcripts main page
Dr. Drew
Fifteen-Year-Old Girl Found Badly Beaten, Injuries Stemming From Game Of Pokemon Go; L.A. Sergeant Fined For Leaking Audio Of Arrest to TMZ; L.A. Ethics Commission Charges Him With $10k. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired August 02, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... the wrong person with a crime. There was no crime at all. It was an accident.
DREW PINSKY, DR. DREW ON CALL SHOW HOST: The arrest of a Hollywood actress had made national headlines. And tonight, a bombshell update. Take a look.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In September 2014, Los Angeles Police responded to a 911 call about a couple having sex in a car. The female, Django Unchained
actress Danielle Watts, is ultimately arrested for not handing over her I.D. She alleged racism and rough treatment. The arresting sergeant says
this audio proves otherwise.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody called, which gives me the right to be here, so it gives me the right to identify you.
DANIELLE WATTS, ACTRESS: Do you know how many times I`ve been called, the cops have been called just for being black?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is not...
(CROSSTALK)
WATTS: Just because we`re black and he`s white. I`m just being really honest, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t -- who brought up the race card? Why?
WATTS: I`m bringing it up because...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I had -- I said nothing about you being black. And I have every right to ask for I.D.
WATTS: And I have every right to say no.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, you do not have every right to say no.
WATTS: And if you`d like to -- if you`d like to demand it, you can take me down me to the court office and I can make a scene about it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
WATTS: And you know what? I have a publicist and I work as actress (Inaudible) movie studio, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. I`m mildly interested -- I`m mildly interested you have a publicist, but I`m going to get your I.D.
WATTS: So, what?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That audio was leaked to TMZ by the arresting sergeant. He says it proves he did nothing wrong, and that sergeant has since retired, but is
now being fined for having leaked the audio. The Los Angeles Ethics Commission says he owes $10,000.
Join me -- joining me is Sara Azari, criminal defense attorney, Yodit Tewolde, attorney, John Cardillo, former NYPD officer via Skype, and
Melissa McCarty, special correspondent Crime Watch Daily.
Melissa, help us understand why the officer felt he had to leak this tape in the first place?
MELISSA MCCARTY, CRIME WATCH DAILY SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Dr. Drew, first of all, the audio came from Sergeant Parker, it was his own personal
recording device, and it is actually allowed by the LAPD. I talked to sources at the LAPD who tell me that as long as it is audio recordings
only, that the officers are allowed to carry a personal device on them as long as they document each recording as evidence.
And so, when this all spawned back in 2014, with this actress, Danielle Watts, she was basically calling out the officers as racists saying that
they were racially profiling, and then ultimately, at the time, it made them, you know, humiliated, them. It damaged their careers, and he always
had access to this audio recording.
So, what happened was the officer showed up for lewd acts, and as you saw in the video there, she returned -- she refused to hand over her
identification, and the couple ultimately ended up pleading no contest to disturbing the peace.
But now that he`s retired, the ethics commission, they are basically saying we`re fining you because you went against the ethics of a police officer.
You are not allowed, as a police officer, to release to the media evidence, and that`s why they are trying to find him, and he`s going to trial.
PINSKY: So, Melissa, let me put in to a final point on this, something understand this. So, he is allowed to carry a tape recorder and record on
his own so long as it`s recorded as evidence. Does that then become his own personal belonging, that tape, and if it does, what are the ethical
guidelines for how he`s supposed to conduct himself?
Is there some very explicit guidelines that he broke, and in those ethical guidelines, do they have an idea, sort of guidelines for what the
consequences are for breaking the guidelines?
MCCARTY: So, the recording device -- the recording device can be any kind of recording as long as it is audio only. And now, the protocol for it is
they have to transcribe, they have to turn that over to the LAPD as...
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: But did they get it back, is it there belonging after that?
MCCARTY: You know, it is their possession.
PINSKY: All right. Their possession. All right, Sara, should he be fined then for having handed over his possession to protect his own reputation?
SARA AZARI, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely not. You`re dealing with a Hollywood actress here who has a huge international audience who took out
the race card immediately upon contact with the police officer.
She invited this. He had to protect himself. And short of having a body cam and a dash cam, the iPhone is the next best thing he could do to record
this incident. And you know, when you listen to this, you just see how entitled she is about, you know, it`s not just a race card. It`s about,
well, I`ll just go to court and I`ll do the e-mail.
It`s almost to me sounds like, she has this entitlement because she`s a celebrity to be treated differently. And the bottom line, you`re in a car
having sex, excuse me, loud sex outside of the CBS studios and the neighbors have to call the police on you. It doesn`t matter whether you`re
black, white, Middle Eastern, Asian, or a celebrity.
PINSKY: All right. Yodit, do you agree with Sara?
[19:05:01] YODIT TEWOLDE, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely. Nothing about this stop, nothing about the arrest was racially motivated because
when he is responding to calls from members of the community about public, you know, lewdness; essentially, he made the proper call by going to them
and asking questions and trying to inquire as to what`s going on.
PINSKY: But that`s not what is an issue, Yodit. That`s not the issue. What`s at issue is that he violated an ethical standard that meets a
criteria for being fined.
TEWOLDE: Correct. Yes. Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Who`s saying that? Melissa?
MACCARTY: Dr. Drew, the LAPD source tells me they actually would have backed the sergeant if he went about it in the proper way.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Which is what? What`s the proper way?
MACCARTY: There is a protocol for this. They have to go through...
TEWOLDE: Yes, but how long does that take?
MACCARTY: Individual officer cannot release.
PINSKY: All right. Hold on. I`m going to go to John. John, what`s the proper protocol. Listen, if I were a physician involved in a patient
interaction and something happened, it would have protected me from something, even in a court of law, I can`t talk about it.
JOHN CARDILLO, FORMER NYPD OFFICER: Right.
PINSKY: So, what`s the situation with law enforcement?
CARDILLO: Right. We`re at parallel universe tonight, right? I`m not defending the cop against two attorneys. But the problem is this, the
standards for a U.S. police officer with the administrative things you can and cannot do that might result in an ethics hearing or an administrative
law hearing or are very different than a civil or criminal trial.
PINSKY: Right.
CARDILLO: So, on my colleagues, the attorneys here are 100 percent correct with civil or criminal penalties. He knew there were things he couldn`t do
as a police officer. Leaking...
(CROSSTALK)
AZARI: But you know what?
CARDILLO: Hold on. Let me finish. Leaking to the media is one of those. So, he did it. And he was a supervisor. It was impetuous on his part, what
I would have done...
PINSKY: So, he knew. He knew. He knew he would be in trouble for this.
CARDILLO: Yes.
PINSKY: John?
CARDILLO: Yes. Last point. I would -- I would have begun it, and the attorneys I think might agree, I would have given it to the police union
attorney, let him bring it to the city attorney, district attorney that he...
(CROSSTALK)
MCCARTY: Agree. Agree. Agreed.
TEWOLDE: Agree.
CARDILLO: And fight the battle for him.
PINSKY: All right. Now the Ethics Committee said it would -- in fact, it offered him a deal of $2500 if the -- who now the retired sergeant admits
he was guilty of leaking the tape. So, we go from $10,000 to $2500 if he would just admit it. Yodit, what are the implications of him admitting it?
TEWOLDE: Well, I don`t think that -- well, implications I don`t know at this point since he is retired. But here`s my issue with the way the
tensions between police officers in the community nowadays and people of color, I don`t blame this officer who was accused of being racist for
wanting to clear his name.
Now, did he go about it the right way? maybe not. Maybe leaking it to the media, especially involving an actress wouldn`t be the right way, he should
have gone through the proper channels within his department.
However, I do understand his need to say, look, I properly detained and arrested this person anything being motivated by race. And I have the right
to clear my name essentially.
PINSKY: Well, OK. Hold on.
TEWOLDE: So, I don`t necessarily know...
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Hold on. So, John, he -- let`s assume he`s thinking the way Yodit just said. I have a right, I have a - I have some right I perceive to clear
my name or defend myself, the system isn`t helping me, I know I`m breaking an ethical standard, but it`s my assessment, meaning this officer`s, that
it`s appropriate in this circumstance to bend this ethical standard.
Could he have thought that way, and would he be surprised by the $10,000 fine in that case?
CARDILLO: Oh, I think, yes to both. I mean, look, he`s a retired guy, take the $2500 hit and move on with your life. It`s not really worth at this
point fighting. It`s not going to hurt him. He retired honorably. So, it`s not going to hurt him down the road with his credentials, doing security
work or joining another department.
He -- I would just go away quietly, pay the 2,500 bucks. But like I said, I would have gone through my union lawyer and had them...
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Well, there is the commission, the L.A. Commission; the Ethics Commission has a lawyer who apparently is being very aggressive. I`m trying
to find the name of that lawyer, so people on social media can register their concerns should they have any.
Next up, a shocking admission from the moment at center of the storm. She seems to backtrack quite a bit and then fold on sort a bit.
And later, a girl who identifies herself as a psychopath is accused of trying to kill his brother`s girlfriend just to get her out of his life and
hers.
We`re back after this.
[19:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody called, which means it gives me the right to be here, so it gives me the right to identify you by law.
WATTS: Do you know how many times I`ve been called, the cops have been called just for being black?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is not...
(CROSSTALK)
WATTS: Just because we`re black and he`s white. I`m just being really honest, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t -- who brought up the race card? Why?
WATTS: I`m bringing it up because...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I had -- I said nothing about you being black. And I have every right to ask for I.D.
WATTS: And I have every right to say no.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, you do not have every right to say no.
WATTS: And if you`d like to -- if you`d like to demand it, you can take me down me to the court office and I can make a scene about it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
WATTS: And you know what? I have a publicist and I work as actress (Inaudible) movie studio, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. I`m mildly interested -- I`m mildly interested you have a publicist, but I`m going to get your I.D.
WATTS: So, what?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That audio leaked by the arresting LAPD sergeant, he is not facing a $10,000 fine levied by the Los Angeles Ethics Committee.
He said he did this because the audio disproves the allegations made by Djiango Unchained actress, Danielle Watts, that she had been post profile
and that he was mistreating her.
Back with Sara, Yodit, John, and Melissa. Joining us also Tariq Nasheed, filmmaker, his documentary Hidden Colors 4 is available now on Amazon.
Tariq, what`s your reaction to that audio?
TARIQ NASHEED, FILMMAKER: Well, the audio is very interesting. They`re using this young lady as the poster child for almost reverse racism, and
her assuming that the stop could be racially motivated, she`s not pulling that out of the air, based on history, black people have always been overly
targeted by law enforcement.
So, saying this situation was racial, I wouldn`t go that far, but it`s fair for her to suspect that, and one way to suspect that because her boyfriend
wasn`t treated in the same manner she was.
They said that he cooperated, but when black people cooperate, we still get this type of treatment. So, I think it`s fair to suspect that you are
dealing with a white supremacist. But if you don`t have proof, you shouldn`t label them. Just like black people shouldn`t be labeled thugs and
criminals.
MCCARTY: How is that white supremacist when he was asking for her I.D.?
CARDILLO: Ridiculous.
MCCARTY: And you know what? The boyfriend can`t be compared to her because the boyfriend cooperated. She didn`t. She wouldn`t believe that she would -
- she would defy it.
(CROSSTALK)
[19:15:02] NASHEED: but, ma`am, they both committed a crime. People keep talking about the crime, they both committed a crime, how come he is not
cuffed? Because I live in Los Angeles, and I know when law enforcement handcuffs one person, they handcuff everybody associated with him.
MCCARTY: And I`m with you, and I`m with you in those instances. This does not fall in that category. Her boyfriend was cooperative. She was
belligerent. She was defiant.
NASHEED: The boyfriend committed the crime too, ma`am.
MCCARTY: Yes, and he got detained and arrested too.
PINSKY: Yodit, what is your perception?
TEWOLDE: You know, to talk about somebody being a white supremacist, the man was really doing his job.
MCCARTY: I know.
TEWOLDE: And trust me. Trust me, I would be with you if the circumstances were different, but this officer...
(CROSSTALK)
NASHEED: And I didn`t call him a white supremacist. I just said suspect...
TEWOLDE: Hold on. Hold on.
NASHEED: I did not call him white supremacist, ma`am.
TEWOLDE: Right. Suspect, but understand, we`d have a different conversation if there was no audio at all just because she`s saying that he
racially motivate -- or he was racially motivated and approached him in the first place.
He was -- he was called out to the scene. He asked for I.D., which an officer is supposed to do, and when you don`t, you`re actually committing a
crime. Failure to identify. Her boyfriend actually provided I.D. That is why he was treated differently. So, we can`t always...
(CROSSTALK)
NASHEED: But, ma`am, we have to be realistic. Even when black people comply, even when we do present I.D., even when we have our hands up, we
still get shot. So, let`s not pretend that...
(CROSSTALK)
TEWOLDE: I understand. But we`re not talking about those issue. OK. We`re not talking about that.
NASHEED: Let`s not pretend that there is nothing out of thin air.
TEWOLDE: We are not talking about that.
NASHEED: Because we are talking about that. Because we are talking about in the context of systematic white supremacy.
TEWOLDE: We`re not talking about that. We`re talking about the situation right now.
MCCARTY: Well, look, if you`re talking about what applies...
TEWOLDE: No, no, no.
MCCARTY: ... and she produced her I.D. and she was mistreated.
TEWOLDE: Exactly.
MCCARTY: OK. She did not produce her I.D.
NASHEED: But, ma`am, there`s always the justification to harm and mistreat and detain black people for some reason. There`s always the justification.
(CROSSTALK)
MCCARTY: I`m sorry. Black does not apply to the situation.
NASHEED: Even if they blew her brains up they would have justify that they would have called a thug who deserve it.
TEWOLDE: There is wrong in the situation right now, guys.
PINSKY: Let me see -- let`s see what she does say. She talked to Danielle Watts, talked to -- or CNN talked to Danielle Watts right after the 2014
arrest. Here`s what she said then.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WATTS: When the officer came up, he didn`t even ask me for my I.D. He asked Brian. So, he didn`t even give me the respect of telling me what
happened. You know, so, for me, if he had come to me and said, excuse me, ma`am, like, you seem like a respectable person, but, you know, someone
made a call, can we just talk to you for a second, the whole situation would have been different.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: The story has evolved somewhat because here now is what she just told splash news.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WATTS: Because, honestly, like, one of the hardest things after all that stuff that happened was me having to sit with myself feeling bad about how
I talked to that police officer.
I felt so bad for being so angry with him. But there was so many moments where I was, like, man, that was mean. I was being mean. I was being a
brat. You know, and it really helped to have all these people online being, like, what a Hollywood brat. What a diva, what an idiot. It was like, you
know what? You`re right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So, it sounds like, Tariq, that most of the people responding to her behavior were not responding to anything about the racial sort of
dynamic of this, but more about her entitlement and saying I`m going to tell my publicist, and don`t you know who I am, that kind of stuff.
TEWOLDE: Right.
PINSKY: That`s really got people going I think.
NASHEED: Well, she was running her mouth. There`s no real entitlement, it`s just basically her trying to talk her way out of a situation so that
she wouldn`t be harmed. I mean, she`s not an a-list actress, no disrespect to her.
She doesn`t have that many followers on Twitter, so she`s not a big major player in Hollywood. I don`t even think she really has a publicist. And
that`s no disrespect. So, as a victim of white supremacy sometimes people do what they have to do to try to not be harmed.
PINSKY: Let me ask you this. John, I know you`re going to feel very strongly.
TEWOLDE: What?
PINSKY: But I only get Tariq`s question on this.
NASHEED: Yes, sir.
PINSKY: Should this guy for having to leak the tape, do you think he should be fined for having leaked that tape?
NASHEED: No. I don`t mind him filming anything.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: It`s just audio.
NASHEED: Right. And even the audio I don`t mind that. See, my thing is if he did break the law, he should be treated like black people and punished
to the letter of the law, but if we`re going to release tapes, let`s release all of them. When black people are exterminated out here by the
suspected race soldiers, release some of those tapes too.
PINSKY: John, what do you say?
CARDILLO: I think this guy is a lunatic. Race soldiers, white supremacy, black extermination. It was a Hollywood spoiled brat trying to get out of
color. He needs to take a Xanax and relax that he is making a Mt. Everest out of an ant hill.
PINSKY: Melissa, what`s going on with Crime Watch Daily with this story?
MCCARTY: Well, listen, Dr. Drew, the bigger issue is, unfortunately, cops are in this position. They have to protect themselves as well because of
what we`ve been seeing.
And so, this officer assumed that the department wasn`t going to have his back, and, really, they just weren`t acting fast enough for him, so he
released it.
And that, he did not break the law. He broke protocol. And it was against an officer ethics, and that`s why he`s been punished. I think it`s
ridiculous fine. I think he`s retired...
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Well, I don`t know that. Even John doesn`t know that, John doesn`t want to go against the attorneys, right, John? You were saying that if he
knowingly broke the ethical standards, he should have some punishment, right?
CARDILLO: Yes. I mean, they really do drill that into your head in the academy.
PINSKY: Yes, of course. Melissa, just same that -- look, if I didn`t -- if I didn`t even no matter when I was protecting myself and family from, I
would have a consequence if I talk about what I did with a patient.
[19:20:07] TEWOLDE: But $10,000 on an officer`s salary for one, retired $10,000?
(CROSSTALK)
MCCARTY: Right, right.
AZARI: I agree.
PINSKY: Yodit -- Yodit, finish your thought.
TEWOLDE: I`m sorry. Dr. Drew, you can tell -- you can tell that whatever he did, leaking the audio wasn`t as serious if they`re willing to reduce
the fine from $10,000 to $2500 just for an apology.
(CROSSTALK)
NASHEED: He should pay the fine. If he broke the law, if he broke the ethics, he should go ahead and be punished.
AZARI: It wasn`t the law.
TEWOLDE: It`s not law.
NASHEED: Well, the ethics, that`s what I said, the ethics. And you see when we`re dealing with people in the dominant society we start using
different terminology. If black people are accused of doing anything it`s a crime.
(CROSSTALK)
TEWOLDE: It`s not law, though.
MCCARTY: OK. You really came...
NASHEED: Criminal thugs. And we deserve to die. Get shot, go to jail.
TEWOLDE: You`re talking about the wrong thing.
PINSKY: Don`t yell at each other. One at a time.
AZARI: You`re not talking about the ethical standard.
TEWOLDE: You`re on the wrong show. You`re on the wrong show.
PINSKY: You, guys, here`s the deal. Let me wrap it up. I think Tariq is right. He is just saying -- he is just saying -- you`re not hearing him, I
mean, he`s just saying he have an ethical standard, he broke it, there should be some consequence. That`s all he`s saying. As a matter of fact,
the rest of it, we can argue about all day.
Next up, I`ve got a girl who calls herself a psychopath, she`s accused of trying to suffocate and slash her brother`s girlfriend.
And later, Pokemon Go update, player`s addiction are becoming dangerous, some have walked off cliffs, others in the path of incoming cars. We`ll get
into it after this.
[19:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Fourteen-year-old Kali Bookey is accused of beating her brother`s teen girlfriend then slitting her throat. The girl survived. Kali calls
herself a psychopath. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They found a 15-year-old girl, badly beaten, the victim was the girlfriend of Bookey`s brother. She told the investigators the
younger girl had biked several miles to her home, walked inside, and savagely beat her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She did make the statement to her victim, "This will be my first, but it won`t be my last."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators say Bookey admitted to punching the girl up to 30 times then smashing two ceramic bowls over her ahead and using the
broken pieces to cut her neck.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the suspect left, she made the comment, "enjoy the afterlife."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bookey later told authorities she was jealous of her brother`s relationship with the girl.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I am back with Sara, Yodit, and Melissa. Melissa, more details here.
MCCARTY: So, this 14-year-old, I mean, we have to take that in, 14 years old, is being charged with attempted first degree intentional homicide, and
she will be, according to reports, tried as an adult.
Now she has admitted to police and also her victim who is only 15 years old, the girlfriend of her brother, that she was a self-proclaimed
psychopath, and she wanted the girlfriend to be her, quote, "first kill."
PINSKY: Oh.
MCCARTY: Now she also admitted to stalking this young girl for a week prior trying to figure out how she was going to do it. Now, Drew, this is
where it`s interesting. She was the one that called police.
Now, initially, she made a phone call to police saying at 4 a.m. she was riding her bicycle around when two masked men jumped out of a truck, tried
to abduct her, and instead, she said, hey, "don`t take me, I have a girl whose home alone, take her instead."
And then when police arrived, they found this teenager bleeding from the face and the neck because she was brutally beaten for two solid hours. A
bowl was smashed over her head, shards of the bowl were used to cut her throat.
At one point, the victim asked for a glass of water. The accused, you know, attacker, then gets her water, and she says, "do you want to," according to
the complaint, "do you want to die now or bleed out?" And the victim reportedly said "I want to bleed out." When cops showed up, still alive,
currently in critical condition, and that`s when she identified who her attacker was.
PINSKY: And according to court documents, Kali told the victim, told the victim, that she was a psychopath.
Joing me now is Casey Jordan, a criminologist, attorney and host of Wives with Knives on Discovery. Casey, let`s first of all, let`s first open by
reviewing the criteria for psychopathy so we really understand what we`re talking about here.
CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST: Well, we have a debate between a psychopath versus a sociopath. But most psychologist agree that psychopathy is going
to be genetic or innate in nature, and that sociopathy or what we now call antisocial personality disorder is usually a product of the environment.
Of specific things that happen to a person. And the number one criteria we usually look at is abuse. Surviving sexual abuse, emotional abuse,
psychological abuse. But I don`t think this girl is a psychopath, I think she just watch too much television.
PINSKY: Well, would you -- wait a minute.
JORDAN: She is obsessed.
PINSKY: Wait a minute.
JORDAN: What?
PINSKY: I don`t know how a 14-year-old can do this kind of thing without being a psychopath. I mean, she apparently showed no anxiety, she did it so
systematically for such a sustained period of time. I don`t understand know how a 14-year-old could do that unless she had no emotion, which is what
psychopaths have.
CASEY: Oh, I think she has emotions. And I think her emotions are jealousy, obsession and attention seeking. The key is that she has a bunch
of elements, but she doesn`t have the impulsivity.
Remember, she plans this very carefully. And the key is that her mother said there was no sign of this whatsoever. Does she have a history in
school? Has she tortured animals? Started fires?
It isn`t impossible that this is popping up for the first time when she is 14, but what kind of girl gets obsessed with her brother and with his
girlfriend to the point where she wants to kill the girlfriend?
I think something very bad happened to this young lady, perhaps it`s lately, but her obsession is either with her brother or the girlfriend.
Whether its flowers in the attics or whether its wild things, something is going on with this girl that I think is not organic, but environmental.
PINSKY: OK. She`s like that she had been sexually abused or something, is that what you`re implying?
[19:30:03] JORDAN: I think it`s very likely.
DREW: Okay. Melissa?
MELISSA MCCARTY, SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT, CRIME WATCH DAILY: She also claims -- reportedly told the victim that she thinks that she will kill again.
DREW: And she told -- she told...
JORDAN: That she left her alive.
DREW: ... and she told detectives that she hated her brother`s girlfriend because she made him happier than Bookey could make him.
JORDAN: Right.
DREW: So, there you go. Jealousy results in stalking and homicidal behaviors?
JORDAN: Well, I think the key here is that she didn`t kill the girl. She said that she wanted it to be her first kill but she left her alive. She
then called the police, made up a story about abductors, sent the police to the girl`s house to make sure that she actually lived.
Interestingly enough, the girlfriend in the meantime was texting the boyfriend, the older brother of the attacking girl, and saying that well,
when she died, she wanted his last name, also the attacker`s last name on her tombstone, and later from the hospital said that her scars looked cool.
I mean, I think you`re talking about a triad of three teenagers without very much going on in their lives who really enjoy drama. I`m not saying
that the attack wasn`t serious, but I do think that there`s a lot more going on here than psychopathic.
DREW: Okay. And HON cannot refute or confirm what we`re talking -- what Casey is suggesting here. Yodit, you got a look of a what? Confusion on
your face?
YODIT TEWOLDE, ATTORNEY: I`m -- I`m just mortified by the fact that this 14-year-old can go to such a great length and I`m sure that all of us can
agree that it is properly being handled in the adult court.
She is a juvenile and I`m glad that they`re not keeping the case in the juvenile court because of the cold and calculated manner in which she went
about this.
It deserves to be in an adult court. She actually needs to be transferred from a juvenile detention center to an adult jail. That`s where she
deserves to be.
SARA AZARI, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yodit -- no. I think, okay, I`m with you on the trying her as an adult. In fact, in Wisconsin, you don`t even
get a fitness hearing to determine whether you should stay in the juvenile system.
The DA`s office has full discretion to charge you and try you as an adult. So, there`s no fitness hearing in the scenario, but to put a 14-year-old in
prison with adults, I think, you`re exposing that 14-year-old to a lot of safety issues, and then, also, the liability of the state as a result of
that.
I don`t think that she needs to be with adults serving time, but I see why she has to be accountable as an adult.
PINSKY: Yeah, we`re splitting hairs here. Fortunately, we don`t get to make -- we don`t make those decisions. Now, I want to sort of phone in on
something that detectives reported that caught my attention, and that was her calm demeanor when she told the entire story.
Casey, that doesn`t get your attention at all? I would think a 14-year-old who is a product of abuse would be emotionally all over the place as
opposed to calculated and not anxious.
JORDAN: I know but -- but they can become -- they can become very crusted over from dealing and suppressing emotions. Listen, I think the number one
thing this girl needs is a psych evaluation before she even goes to adult prison.
PINSKY: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
JORDAN: But beyond that, what you got is a girl who might be suppressing emotions. She may not lack emotions. She may not have remorse or lack of
remorse. She may simply not be able to tap into it. I really think the missing linchpin here is why is she obsessed with her brother.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
JORDAN: Why is she trying to make this girl move away, as far away as possible. She said she didn`t really want to kill her, but wanted to scare
her.
And this girl is obsessed with her brother in a very unnatural way, and you really need to figure out what happened to her that makes her want to get
rid of the girlfriend.
AZARI: Are you -- are you insinuating that the brother may have abused her?
PINSKY: Or the -- or the girl?
AZARI: Like she had a relationship with brother?
JORDAN: I don`t know that I`m insinuating it. I -- I think that any good psych eval will look into that possibility. Where does the obsession come
from?
PINKSY: So what -- what mitigates you`re calling her a psychopath is the obsession and stalking and the fact that we have no...
JORDAN: And jealousy.
PINKSY: ... and no antecedent history of things like setting fires and harming animals. Reasonable. We`re gonna keep this going.
JORDAN: The mother says there`s no sign. Yeah.
PINSKY: Later. Well, you know how that goes.
And later, the most dangerous game ever. We`ve got an update on Pokemon Go. Did parents abandon a baby in order to go after a Pokemon character? Back
after this.
[19:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They found a 15-year-old girl badly beaten. Bookey later told authorities she was jealous of her brother`s relationship with the
girl.
Investigators said Bookey admitted to punching the girl up to 30 times then smashing two ceramic bowls over her head and using the broken pieces to cut
her neck.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She may have been an A student at her school, and that people didn`t see this coming.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Kali Bookey is charged with attempted murder in the beating and slashing attack on her brother`s girlfriend. The suspect is a, by her own
description, a self-confessed psychopath, that according to court documents. The victim survived the assault. She remains hospitalized.
Back with Sara, Yodit, Melissa, and Casey. Now as Melissa discussed with us during the attack, the victim begged Bookey for water. Bookey said she
would give her the water, but in return, she gets to cut her throat. Quite a trade. Right, Melissa?
MCCARTY: And so bizarre, Drew, that they were just negotiating through this entire process, like, if I do this for you, this is how much I`m going to
hurt you in exchange, is that okay? The victim says, yes.
Also what`s interesting is when the teen attacker says when she first broke in to the living room, she had to sit there and she`s telling police this,
do breathing exercises to calm her nerves, so she can work herself up to brutally attack, and she`s very detailed on what it took her emotionally
and mentally to carry this out.
Also, an interesting point, the victim, her mom was out of town apparently for three days according to the criminal complaint, so, perhaps, there`s an
issue there with parents not being around.
[19:40:00] PINSKY: Well, also, that`s the stalking that she had done. She sort of decided when to take her attack. Casey, now we -- Casey mentioned
something about the -- she speculated about sexual abuse or incest, various things. We have no evidence. We can`t confirm that. We have no...
JORDAN: None.
PINSKY: ... nothing to say that`s anything to do with what`s gone on with this particular case, but you were just speculating about the things you
look for during an assessment like this?
JORDAN: Absolutely. Or obsession with the victim herself. I mean, it could be that they have an emotional or psychological attachment that makes her
jealous in -- in a love triangle of sorts.
It doesn`t have to be sexual abuse, but it is an unnatural obsession, and I find it very interesting that the victim had time to text her boyfriend and
-- and tell him she wanted his last name on her tombstone, but never dialed 911 to get help.
Actually, if the attacker had not called the police, you really have to wonder if the victim would have. It`s -- it`s -- I just really feel like
there`s a lot more going on, and this girl is not emotionally dead, but she seems to be on her way.
I`m totally open to the idea that she -- she has sociopathic tendencies, but the question is, why is she on this route? Why is she consumed by
jealousy and obsession? Something is going on under the surface.
PINSKY: Sara -- Sarah, you wanted to say something?
AZARI: No. I was just asked -- I was wondering, is there some type of help that -- that she can get? Because...
PINSKY: Well, not if she`s a psychopath, but if she is a trauma survivor, go ahead. We`ll give you chance to talk about this. This is -- Casey, go
ahead.
JORDAN: Well, just it, you know, this -- I see attention seeking. I see her calling herself a psychopath and really arguing that this was going to be
her first kill, when, in fact, you know, she didn`t have to go there and find a ceramic bowl and smash it on the victim`s head.
She had kitchen knives at home. She could have taken knives, and she could have very easily killed this girl while she slept. There is -- there is a
lot of inconsistently over what she`s saying and her actual actions, and so you have to figure out why she might be seeking attention and maybe it`s a
cry for help.
Maybe she has some really unnatural emotions or psychological trauma going on related to her brother, related to his girlfriend, related to some third
party, but if you can get to the root of that, get there early enough and get this girl counseling. There`s every possibility that she`s not
psychopathic, but just very troubled and can get on the road to healing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, that`s if she doesn`t spent 60 years in prison. That`s what she`s facing.
PINSKY: Right. Yeah.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And in adult prison, she will come out worse than she went in.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right. I agree.
PINSKY: Yodit, I`ve never seen a look of incredulity on your face so sustained. What are you thinking here?
TEWOLDE: Dr. Drew, I`m not a doctor, so I`m thinking legally here. When I read the story, I was thinking crazy. She`s crazy. And I know that...
PINSKY: Well, that`s not -- that`s not a very specific -- that`s not -- crazy is not something that parses out (ph) for diagnostic criteria.
TEWOLDE: I`m just telling what -- what I was thinking.
PINSKY: Yes.
TEWOLDE: That`s just the word that came to my mind when I was reading this article about her. But I know her attorney was asking the judge if she
could be released to her parents.
Now, Casey, would you want someone who was calling themselves a psychopath and who could be harmful to not only others, but herself, would you agree
that she needs to be detained at this time and not released? On bond?
JORDAN: Absolutely. But I think I would have to argue that at 14, even though, hey, I have the heart of a prosecutor, so I don`t have a problem
with Wisconsin`s law...
TEWOLDE: So do I.
JORDAN: ... treating her as an adult, but -- but I would argue that just if you stop and step back and look at all of this, if she really has no signs
of psychopathy in the past, I would love to see her put in a juvenile detention facility, not return to her parents` home because I think there`s
something rotten in Denmark (ph) going on at home.
PINSKY: Something there, okay.
JORDAN: Yeah. And see if we can get to the root of the problem by doing a real psych assessment. I think she deserves that.
PINSKY: And again, we have no evidence of anything. We`re just speculating in these kinds of cases, how we would approach them. Pertaining to the
family, Bookey`s mother told Associated Press, she had no idea the daughter was a risk for this sort of thing or planning this kind of thing. She is
suggesting that it just came out of the blue.
I want to show you a little clip that this whole situation reminded me of. It was a movie about a couple dealing with a psychopathic child called "We
Need To Talk About Kevin." Here`s a clip.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What comes after seven?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 71. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There. You can add back if you think you`re so smart. You did not. You did not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Casey, I think what that sort of pointing to is the fact that when there is psychopathy, there`s evidence before something like a tragedy
we`re discussing transpires.
[19:45:00] JORDAN: Yeah. We absolutely have to acknowledge there are some people born, it`s not a level playing field out there. They are born with a
myriad of genetic abnormalities or molecular disorders, limbic disorders, neurological disorders that leave them flat affect, that leave them
psychopathic from the time they were born, but it can also be a combination of environmental circumstances.
PINSKY: Well, that`s right. My -- my friend that study psychopathy always tell me that, listen, you can -- you can take even somebody with this
proclivity for psychopathy and you -- you can teach them to compensate, but if that child suffers abuse or some sort of horrible trauma, then it`s game
on, then it`s a problem, and you can`t come back to that.
JORDAN: Absolutely.
PINSKY: All right. Next up. Thank you, panel. Next up, death, distractions, injuries, that`s all we`ve been talking about. That`s right. Should someone
put a stop to Pokemon Go? We have an update on our from last week. It`s getting worse. I`ll have more.
[19:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is not normal. This is not exactly what happened in front of the Plaza Hotel in New York City. This is Pokemon Go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We get to meet people we never thought we could meet. I met this guy just doing this. Just to find out he lives in my area.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s simple. It`s not that black, not white. There`s no race to it. It`s simple.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have to leave.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: My children who are millennials keep insisting that Pokemon Go is bringing people out of their homes, creating new kinds of human
interaction, but also getting some people into big trouble. Back with Sara, Casey, Melissa. Melissa, tell me about some of these cases.
MCCARTY: I am not hip. I have no idea what the rave is all about, but I do know the problems that it is causing. It is a lot of incidents. I`m just
gonna run down three of the latest ones because this is occurring everywhere.
Let`s start off in Florida. There was a 16-year-old girl at her home playing this app, this Pokemon Go, and she asked her mother, can she go
outside to follow one of the characters running around in her neighborhood late at night.
The mom says yes. She is on her skate board. And all of a sudden, she is not in a crosswalk but she`s chasing after this character in the app, and
she is hit by a driver who then takes off. But thankfully, is later caught, a 33-year-old woman.
And then we want to move on to Minnesota there. Well, this is pretty interesting. The city council in Winona allowed for this Pokemon app to
actually be used at a veterans memorial park. It is causing quite a stir as you can imagine, between veterans and young people, because apparently
they`re bringing tents and hammocks and they`re making a big party.
And there was a dispute and argument with a veteran caught with young people on You Tube that went viral of this big showdown, saying basically,
the veterans saying it is disrespectful. You`re playing this game in this sacred territory. It`s a memorial. Have some respectful. It was allowed by
the city council.
And the final disruption recently is out of Arizona where you have a couple, both in their 20s there, one is 25, one is 27. They left the house
for about 90 minutes to go play this game. Oh, yes, their 2-year-old son was left in the house all alone.
PINSKY: Fantastic. Parents of the year. Now joining us, Michele Morrow. She is a gaming expert, co-host of bleacher report.com. All right, Michele,
good thing or bad thing?
My kids say it`s a good thing because it`s not people sitting on a couch, you know, for hours and hours, you know, with the computer and never
getting up. They`re actually getting out and socializing and meeting other people and they`re running into other people and getting hit by cars.
MICHELE MORROW, GAMING EXPERT: Yeah.
PINSKY: Good thing or bad thing?
MORROW: Well, I mean, it is two sides. There is a good part of it and that is getting people out of the house. A lot of gamers who would not normally
leave the house are getting out. They`re walking. A lot of them are talking about how it is helping their depression.
So there is a lot of good aspects to it. But with the good also does come the bad. Unfortunately, a lot of people are obviously running amok in
public places. They have what is called poke stops within the game because it is a GPS location. So, when you see people running around, the poke
stops are based on national landmarks, places of worship...
PINSKY: Can businesses buy the poke stops so they can attract people to their businesses?
MORROW: Some of the businesses do have poke stops. I`m not sure yet how they decided to add that feature yet for businesses but a lot do want it.
PINSKY: It`s crazy. So, I think what you`re saying is -- what you`re saying is the treatment for gaming addiction for people that hibernate for weeks
and they`re with their world of war craft or whatever, is that they should go out and play Pokemon Go?
MORROW: Well, I think it is good for to you get out of the house regardless. But Pokemon Go is fun if you get a group of people to do a
Pokemon hunt. Saying that though, you need to be aware of your surroundings.
PINSKY: Yes. Yes. Don`t get hit by a car.
MORROW: Yeah.
PINSKY: We got more. We`ll be back after this.
[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: I`m back with Sara, Casey, Melissa, and Michele. We`ve been talking about Pokemon Go. Sara, my question for you is, if someone is distracted by
a game like Pokemon, is that a defense?
AZARI: It is not. Much like any other obsession. Pokemon go is not a defense. And you know, I just say, just say no to Pokemon Go. It is a lose
-- lose situation. If you are...
PINSKY: Well, you never played it. You never played it.
AZARI: And I don`t want to.
PINSKY: Okay. Casey -- Casey, I hope you play it because my question is, is it an addiction? And if it is an addiction, should we treat somebody who
had a consequence because of playing the same as you would somebody whose addicted to something else like alcohol.
JORDAN: Let`s say it can be an addiction, but I would not put it in the same caveat as alcohol or drug addiction. I really do think there`s a lot
more choice involved in gaming addiction.
PINSKY: That`s been my experience.
JORDAN: And the bottom line is. Yeah, you can turn it off. And it is no different than texting while driving. You just have to be responsible.
PINSKY: There you go. But Michele, should we have sympathy for people who get -- we`ll use the word, I`ll say obsessed with the game? Should we have
sympathy for that?
MORROW: Sympathy. I don`t think sympathy is the right word that we should have for the obsessed, but we should have maybe a little bit compassion on
figuring out how to make them less dependent on needing to play it all the time.
PINSKY: And this is augmented -- this is augmented reality. Wait until we have virtual reality. We`ll gonna lose all the male. Half of humanity is
going to disappear. You guys better be ready to...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I might be gone, too.
PINSKY: You too? Not just all males?
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: And Michele.
MORROW: And me.
PINSKY: Fantastic. All right. Guys, thank you very much. Thank you, panel. We appreciate you all for watching as well. Do tune in here. We are here
4:00 pacific, 7:00 central. We will see you next time. And our good friend, Nancy Grace, is up next.
[20:00:00]
END
