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Dr. Drew
Police Search for Clues in Jogger Murder; 14-Year-Old Girl Shoots Her Father; Woman with Painted Face Ransacks Family`s Home. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired August 08, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The sexual assault and murder of jogger, Karina Vetrano. The 30-year-old Howard beach resident was found about 15 feet by her own
father off a jogging path that is out of view from the street.
Vetrano`s father returned to the scene as investigators tried to determine if a used condom found not far from his daughter`s body was used during the
attack.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was beaten quite severely, suggesting she put up a big fight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Detectives are going door to door, hoping resident surveillance video will show who else was in the marshland at the time of
Vetrano`s murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is but one animal who will face God and his vengeance, and he knows who he is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our officers, they catch the guys, you gotta hang them. No, no trial.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DREW PINSKY, DR. DREW ON CALL HOST: Police are searching for clues in the mysterious murder of a 30-year-old jogger, Karina Vetrano. Her body found
Tuesday night in the Howard beach area of New York. Her father found her. Her mother has a message for the killers.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The whole entire world knows what a pathetic, puny, weak, piece of filth (beep) that you are. Soon, I know they will gonna know
your face as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joining me, Lisa Bloom, attorney, Bloom Firm and Awo.com, Steve Moore, retired FBI special agent, Spirit, psychotherapist, host of My
Current Situation on Centric TV, and Pat Lalama, managing editor of Crime Watch Daily. Pat, can you give us some details. What do you know so far?
PAT LALAMA, MANAGING EDITOR OF CRIME WATCH DAILY: Well, let me tell you this. You know, the authorities have referred to this as a community
threat. People are up in arms. They want to know answers, if there are any. So as we speak, there`s a town hall meeting happening right now in that
community that`s beginning, you know, like I said, as we speak now.
In the meantime, we know that authorities have found an ear bud and they also found a sneaker about 60 feet from the scene, but those two pieces of
evidence were strewn in opposite directions. So, perhaps the suspects, the assailants were grabbing on to her and throwing the items. Also, the cell
phone near the actual scene and the used pings to find her body.
We know of course that the cause of death was strangulation. She fought like hell, bit down so hard, she cracked a tooth. We know that they used
condom in the area.
So right now, everything depends on DNA and tips from people. They had to boost up the reward to 10,000 because when it was lower, they got three
tips from people in the community. So this is a call to action, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Pat, is there any speculation about the profile of -- is this likely to be somebody who is just transient, somebody who lives in the
community? Do they have any idea? I understand they are going door to door.
LALAMA: Yeah. Well, Dr. Drew, they -- they do believe at this point that nothing in her personal life would say that this was someone she knew. They
talked to a couple of vagrants. We know that area; swampy, marshy, 10 foot tall weeds, a lot of vagrants and some tent city, a little bit of minor
tent city in that area, so some undesirable type of people they`ve spoken to, but at this point, nobody named and no arrest.
PINSKY: Steve, it`s been almost a week since the murder. Do you think the police have more than they are telling us just so they can preserve the --
the leads in the operation?
STEVE MOORE, FBI SPECIAL AGENT (RET): Yes. I think that`s exactly right. There was so much evidence out there that is potentially useful, for
instance, if she fought that hard, she`s going to have bits of the assailants skin under her fingernails.
That used condom is not going to protect that guy from being found because her epithelial cells, if it was used in that crime, will be on it. And
there`s possibly footprints in the area, and the fact, you know, I don`t think this is a vagrant, I don`t think it`s targeted, but whoever was there
had a condom, and vagrants generally don`t carry condoms.
PINSKY: Not only that, yeah, I mean it -- it sounds like it was somebody who, you know, really intended her harm, you know, the -- the strangulation
-- somebody has got flesh wounds from biting, for sure.
Police said there were no red flags, you mentioned, Pat, in the background. She worked for a cater, she traveled, she wrote a blog. She had just broken
up with her boyfriend, but they eliminated him as a suspect. Do you know how they did that? Pat?
LALAMA: Oh, I`m sorry. I -- I heard a beep in my ear and thought I lost the audio. I actually don`t know. They do say that they have talked to the
person, and that they believe that that person has an absolutely credible alibi, and that`s all we know about that boyfriend at this time.
But you know, Dr. Drew, if I can throw it out there, I`d love to hear what your experts think about this. You know, she was apparently both vaginally
and anally violated, okay? Her body was beaten. She was strangled.
I -- I want to know -- it seems like to me that this is the work of two people and would this be like a message crime of some sort? I mean, maybe
we`re on the wrong track, thinking it was a stranger.
[19:05:00] PINSKY: Yeah, I did. I wondered about more than one person myself, someone with extraordinary violent intent. This was not just a
crime of sexual passion. This was somebody violent, violent murderer, and, yeah, the idea that it was payback or something? I mean, I don`t want to
imply anything like that, but it makes you wonder. Spirit, what do you think?
SPIRIT, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Yeah. I mean, it just seems like it`s too violent of a crime, Dr. Drew. It seems like there`s a lot of power and control and
this is definitely about wanting to send a message in some way.
LALAMA: Yes.
PINSKY: Yeah.
SPIRIT: It`s just horrific. It is -- it is gut wrenching.
PINSKY: Steve, do you mean anything like that to you or are we going down the wrong path here?
MOORE: Well, I -- I don`t know, because I don`t know who the killer is, but these type of crimes don`t have to be message crimes. People who do extreme
violence to the bodies of the victims are -- are frequently just -- just angry and psychotic and have no desire to send a message beyond their
power.
PINSKY: Yeah.
LALAMA: But do they -- but do they have a time to put on a condom if we`re associating them. We don`t know yet if that condom at the scene is
associated with her, but, okay, on this heinous violent credible that beats the living hell out of the woman, but I gonna take the time to put a
condom.
PINSKY: The answer is there are cold-blooded murders out there who don`t have anxiety and don`t really have feeling when they`re doing this other
than arousal from the extreme nature of the violence.
But Lisa, I save the best part for you. I got to -- I got to read something to you. The grandson of a mobster, John Gotti, posted a bizarre comment
about -- no, no, this is not the one I wanted to read for her.
Do we have the ones where they were talking about that was -- that was her fault, that they`re blaming the victim in this one? Lisa, I`ve got those
next up. I`m sorry. I`ll get them to you.
But let me read this thing by John Gotti. Is it his son? The disaster never would have happened...
LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY: Grandson.
PINSKY: ... grandson. The disaster never would have happened before the government locked up the good guys in the neighborhood. The neighborhood
was something to fear, apparently not anymore, and we lost one of our own due to it. So there you go, Lisa. We just kept the mob going, it would be
more safe in the neighborhood.
BLOOM: Right. That`s the cause of rape, locking up the mob. Nice try. You know, rape is a crime of power, not a crime of sex. I understand that this
beautiful young woman jogged in the area on a regular basis.
It could have been that somebody was waiting for her, was watching for her, that she fought, that they, you know, committed this horrible act and --
and included all of the violence in it as a result of that, but it was 5:00 p.m. on a summer night, so in other words, broad daylight.
This is an area where people do jog in Queens which is part of New York City, a very populated area. I mean, this is a very, very scary thing. As
somebody -- I`m a woman who goes running a lot, and I think this is a very scary situation.
PINSKY: So two things, Lisa, one, it makes me think that this is somebody who has done this before, who knows how to strangle somebody and so they
don`t make noise, you know, to me it sounds like that.
And then number two, according to some of the people on Facebook and social media, Lisa, if you went out to jog, it would be your fault if you dressed
a certain way, right? Of course, everybody knows that. I`ll give you a chance, trust me, to respond. I`ve got more of those kinds of, what shall
we say?
BLOOM: Victim blaming?
PINSKY: Well, they`re victim blaming, but they are evoking intense passions in people when people say something like that online. And later, a family
torn apart by a murder in the dead of night, a teenager was charged for killing her own father. Back after this.
[19:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A massive crime scene after the mysterious death of 30- year-old Karina Vetrano went missing during a Monday night run.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her and her father would go running here often.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: However, this time, her father did not run with her around 5:00 p.m. inside the heavily wooded and weeded area known as Spring
Creek Parkland, an area he told his daughter never to run alone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The father began to call her several times in the phone, but she did not answer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police were eventually called and a search began using a ping on her cell phone to try and find her. Her father made the gruesome
discovery. A love for running and a special bond with her father who she called her best friend.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Terrible. Will the murderer of 30-year-old Karina Vetrano be solved or go cold? Investigators currently are going door-to-door in the
neighborhood looking for any clues. The chief of the detectives warns there is a, quote, severe community threat. Take a look.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chief, should residents be concerned at all, who live here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After this, of course, they should be, but there`s never been a -- there hasn`t been -- any time recent -- any stranger- rapes at
all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINKSY: Back with Lisa, Steve, Spirit, and Pat. Steve, should residents be, even though it`s a big threat, should they be frightened?
MOORE: They shouldn`t be frightened unless they plan to go jogging alone out in Spring Creek Park. I think this person is a specific type of crime
committer, and what they should do is maintain reasonable practices for safety and they`ll be fine.
PINSKY: You know, Spirit, usually we have clues that help us sort of understand kind of what`s going on. I can`t make much out of this except
that this is somebody I think has done it before, is incredibly violent, and that`s about all I can get.
Whether they are psychotic or on drugs or looking for -- I don`t think there was somebody looking for drugs that happened to murder somebody or
looking for sex and happened to murder somebody.
This is a violent, violent, cold-blooded murderer. Why? A psychopath or a serial killer, maybe?
SPIRIT: And knows how to lie and wait now, Dr. Drew, because we have to remember now, they`re not talking about cars or vehicles that are coming in
and out of the area, and then they`re also talking about that they haven`t had any crimes like this and any recent history.
So do people need to be cautious? Yes, but this is an example that remind us we should always be cautious. We should never take our freedom and our
safety as a luxury.
[19:15:00] PINSKY: What`s the matter, Pat?
LALAMA: You know, I don`t know, and of course I`m -- all kinds of conspiracy theories run through my head, but I just wonder, we have to look
at that particular area and see what actual kinds of crimes...
PINSKY: Yeah.
LALAMA: Occurred there, but you know what, I`m just thinking to myself, and I`m just throwing this out there, that either it was a sexual violent
predator lying in wait, waiting for someone just like her, who had seen her before, was hoping she will come by again, or somebody who knew she would
be there. I -- I don`t know.
PINSKY: Steve, would you agree with that? How Pat`s parsing that out?
MOORE: Especially the first part, yes. I`m not sure that it would be somebody looking specifically for her. I think it was somebody looking
specifically for someone, but I think the fact that they might have been targeting her was less of a chance because they would have done different
things with the body than just do it quickly and leave.
PINSKY: All right. Have a look at some of these Facebook comments about the murder. Michael wrote, we are reminded every day we live with savages,
however, you go jogging alone with earphones on, looking like that, I ask you where is common sense these days.
Lisa, just get your engine running. This is how crazy people get online. Carlos said, sexual assault will be here, it`s your responsibility to be
aware, stop jogging or going to the damn gym half naked. So somebody responded to Carlos, so what you`re saying is men are so dumb they are
unable to control themselves? Stop victim blaming.
Another dude, notably, another dude, I always see attractive women running with their headphones on in secluded areas, how stupid can they be?
Now, Lisa, let me be a little bit political here. They have a point, in that women should be hypervigilant and whatever, but for God`s sake, you
know, what I mean? Help me.
BLOOM: I mean, do they have no decency? This beautiful young woman who is doing something that was perfectly legal and normal running in the late
afternoon on a sunny day in New York City is brutally raped and murdered and they`re blaming her?
Rape is 100 percent the responsibility of the rapist, period, the end. It doesn`t matter what she`s wearing. If she`s out there running naked, she
still has the right not to be raped and murdered. It is not the woman`s fault. It doesn`t matter what she`s wearing. I represented grandmothers,
little children, everyone in between.
PINSKY: Pragmatically. Pragmatically.
BLOOM: It doesn`t matter what they`re wearing.
PINSKY: I know. I`m with you in terms of the fault, but in terms of pragmatism of staying safe?
BLOOM: Yeah, well, of course, listen. I have earphones on when I go running and I`m concerned and I take precautions, but I have to do that because we
live in a culture where rape is very common and where women get blamed. And that`s where our focus should be.
PINSKY: And they are murdering violent people. Pat, go ahead.
LALAMA: Well, I was just gonna say outfit means nothing to me, I don`t care what she`s wearing, but I do feel that if you are jogging alone -- even
though she was a strong, fit woman and obviously, you know, fought to the death, but, I mean, the ear buds, I do think are an issue.
I see people driving around L.A. with them in the ear while they`re driving or walking across the street, and, by the way, she was texting, apparently,
when this happened, which means she`s not focused or looking -- no way am I blaming this woman, keep that straight.
She did nothing to cause this, but I do think as women alone in places, you know, texting or stopping in a secluded area and having ear buds in your
ear could, you know, may not be the smartest thing to do, but in no way is this her fault. No way.
PINSKY: Spirit?
SPIRIT: We just have to remember at the end of the day, we are part of the animal chain here, and this survival of the fittest. We cannot think that
somehow our protection is something that is innately due to us as a right. That seems right, but what should be is not. We have to stay vigilant to
protect ourselves and the people that we love. That`s just the reality.
PINSKY: Police are offering -- I`m afraid you`re right. I wanna get tips from Steve, but before I do, I want to remind people that police are
offering a 10,000 dollar reward for information that leads to an arrest. If you have a tip, Crime Stoppers information up here on the screen including
a way to text a tip. Steve, what can people do to stay safe?
MOORE: Well, you can jog in groups. She was never...
PINSKY: That`s what she always did, and this one time, she didn`t.
MOORE: Yeah.
(CROSSTALK)
MOORE: The day I don`t use my seat belt is the day I have an accident.
PINSKY: Yeah.
MOORE: But -- but what you do is you just like Spirit said, you have to realize that this is -- you can`t believe in what you want the world to be.
You have to accept what it really is. So, jog in groups, don`t jog after dark. Expect people might hurt you or try to hurt you.
SPIRIT: Right.
MOORE: And plan on the -- plan on the worst thing that could happen, protect against that, and then you`ll never have to deal with it.
[19:20:00] PINSKY: You guys, at least you and Pat, Steve and Pat, you cover a lot of crimes. Steve, you deal with a lot of crimes. The average person
does not see it, does not believe it, does not want to believe, does not think that way.
SPIRIT: It`s there.
LALAMA: It`s there.
PINSKY: I understand, but it`s really difficult to keep that top of mind. Next up, a husband and father shot dead allegedly by his own teen daughter.
Did he deserve to die?
And Later, this woman accused of breaking into a sleeping family`s home helping herself to food, clothing, drugs -- shocking -- may have something
to do with it. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This 14-year-old Ohio girl shot and killed her father. The teen`s mother says her daughter saved her from an abusive marriage.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s my hero. I was not strong enough to get out, and she helped us all.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But the sister of 41-year-old Jonathan Meadows insists her brother was a loving dad and that he was murdered.
[19:25:00] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was cold and calculated. He was murdered in his sleep. There was no signs of abuse or anything else in that house.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINKSY:14-year-old Bresha Meadows is charged with aggravated murder. She has pleaded not guilty. I`ll speak to her attorney in just a minute. I`m
back now with Lisa, Spirit, and Pat. Joining us as well, defense attorney, Yodit Tewolde. Pat, you have some background on the shooting. Fill us in.
LALAMA: Well, let`s talk about the relationship between Jonathan and Brandi, which goes back, I think, about 18 years.
PINSKY: That`s the mom?
LALAMA: Yes, that`s the mom, Brandi, and she has claimed it`s been horrific, I just didn`t have the courage to leave.
PINSKY: Did she file reports? Was there a record?
LALAMA: Well, funny -- funny you should ask because in 2011, and I have the incident report right here, she tells a police officer that Jonathan said
he was going to kill her and their three children because he was not going to let anyone else have her or raise the kids because he thought she was
cheating.
Now, she does not eventually leave, and she just dropped the charges. They found this incident report, and we all know that, you know, women stay for
a lot of, you know, reasons that some are credible, even though it`s a terrible situation.
Bottom line was, he`s sleeping on the couch at 4:00 in the morning. Brandi`s sleeping on the floor next to him. Bresha Meadows, the teen
daughter, takes the very .45 that she claims he`s been waiving around intimidating the family with over all these years and shoots him in the
head.
There were claims that there was an abusive situation the day before, and one of the aunts claimed that Bresha said to her mom, mommy, now you`re
free.
PINSKY: All right. Well I want to get some input from the attorneys before I go any further on this. Lisa, let`s say the abuse was profound. That does
not justify murder, right? It`s not a justification for murder.
People that are involved in domestic violence household should not be encouraged to murder or execute a murder, but how do we reconcile this?
BLOOM: No but legally, this could be an imperfect self-defense theory. This is a 14-year-old girl, so we`re gonna give her some leeway because she`s
not an adult and she doesn`t think like an adult, and if she felt that the only way to protect her mother and her family was to take her father`s
life, yes, that is a crime...
PINSKY: All right.
BLOOM: ... but I would not call that first-degree murder, and I hope she`s treated like a juvenile in all of this.
PINSKY: Yodit, do you agree with what Lisa said or is there a modification of that?
YODIT TEWOLDE, ATTORNEY: No, I -- I actually do. Ohio allows someone to use deadly force against another person if there is a reasonable belief that
that person poses an imminent danger to life or substantial physical harm.
Now, the question is gonna be will -- was there imminent danger when the 14-year-old shot her father while he was sleeping? Well, the argument could
be made that yes, this was the only time she can actually do that. There`s a history of abuse that`s been documented, well documented, for a number of
years, so that could be the argument in court.
PINSKY: Now, the teen`s aunt, a Cleveland police officer, says that the niece, Bresha, ran away in May because of the abuse. Five years earlier,
Bresha`s mother found the protective order against the husband, which she eventually dropped.
But Spirit, when kids run from the home and stay away, there`s usually abuse in the home, and the mom has mentioned abuse, but ultimately, it`s
really just gonna be just what the mom reports that is gonna be the defense for this kid, and I`m very uncomfortable with this being okay in the eyes
of the law.
SPIRIT: Oh, Dr. Drew, I`m very uncomfortable about a lot of things here. How about the language that the mom is using and even for the daughter...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hero.
SPIRIT: ... to say, mom, now you`re free. It makes me wonder what kind of seeds mom was planting in the daughter around fear and escape and around
save me and rescuing, and all of these things, Dr. Drew. I just feel like there are some pieces to this puzzle that are missing, and there are some
things to be looked at here with mom. This whole thing just seems so, so gone awry to me.
PINSKY: Pat, go ahead.
SPIRIT: It really does.
LALAMA: I agree whole heartedly. It`s so odd to me that immediately after this, the mother is talking to media saying she is my hero. Clearly, the
child is troubled. Clearly, the child is traumatized by something that would make her even do this.
PINSKY: Oh, yeah.
LALAMA: But it`s just so odd to me.
SPIRIT: Abuse.
LALAMA: It seems so inappropriate for the mother to be saying such things during this time.
PINSKY: Yeah. It`s kind of -- it`s kind of wild. I have had other patients nearly kill an abusive father, literally, you know, holding a shotgun to
the head in the middle of the night while they -- it`s always while they sleep, that`s when it tends to happen, and then not do it.
I had a few cases do that, so this is not unheard of, but the abuse in those situations were profound. Now, joining me is Ian Friedman. He is the
teen`s attorney. Ian, you`re calling it self-defense? How do we reconcile - - tell us what are the facts here.
IAN FRIEDMAN, THE GIRL`S ATTORNEY: All right. Good evening, Dr. Drew. First off, let me -- let me thank you for taking an interest in this case.
Everyone knows what happened is tragic.
You know, I will fill in as -- as your guests stated what`s needed here, the other pieces of the puzzle, and the other pieces of the puzzle are that
it`s -- this goes back to talking about almost to the beginning of the marriage, and even while dating.
[19:30:00] I do not believe that it`s only going to be the report of the mother. There were two other children in the home.There were their
boyfriends and girlfriends. The other pieces are going to be by way of reports which are going to be given to the prosecutor in the coming weeks.
These reports will corroborate the abuse. Brandy (ph) has been to the hospital approximately 15 to 20 times over the course of the years. This is
what Brisha (ph) thought on a daily basis.
These beatings were, you know, punching in the face, kicking, stamping to the point of being unconscious. And this young girl did what she felt
necessary to defend her mother, her siblings, and herself.
And I think Lisa hit it, you know, basically on the head when she was saying that, you know, this was the time that she felt that she could do
it.
This 14-year-old girl was not going to be able to defend herself against her father who also and reports by several others will -- they saw him
carrying the gun around, threatening the gun, with the gun, and this went on and on and on.
And so really what was this was just what a constant nightmare...
PINSKY: Mr. Friedman...
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: ...I`m running short Of time, but let me ask you this, do you think she will be tried as an adult?
FRIEDMAN: I hope not. I believe that once we get those records to the prosecutor that they will see this just as a 14 year old with no need to
bind over and it will be a self defense case here.
I think you`re going to see a lot of elements. You`re going to see a mom with battered woman syndrome. You`re going to see a secondary trauma on
Brisha (ph) and there`s a lot of literature on it, you know that.
And that`s the -- on the text that I think is dictated by the facts of this case.
PINSKY: Thank you, Mr. Friedman. I appreciate you being here with us.
Next up, I have the victim`s sister who says the brother was not an abuser, that this was simply called calculated murder. She is with us.
And later, a security camera records a bizarre break-in. This intruder ate the family`s food, tried on their clothes, ransack their house while they
were all there asleep. Back up to this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:35:00] DAVID HUNTER, REVEREND PASTOR of ST. PAUL MISSIONARY BAPTIST CHURCH, CLEVELAND: Well, he grew up here as kids. Their whole family were
married here, baptized and all of that, so.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Reverend David Hunter of St. Paul Missionary Baptist Church in Cleveland speaks about the funeral of 41-year-old Jonathan
Meadows. He was murdered last Thursday in his Warren home. Police have arrested Meadows` 14 year-old daughter, Brisha (ph) on an aggravated murder
charge.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 911...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My daughter...
(BEEPING SOUND)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ...she just shot my husband...
(BEEPING SOUND)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ...in the head.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Brandy Meadows told Fox 8 that her husband was controlling and abusive and her daughter was protecting her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s my hero, our hero, and now we need to move forward and have us a better life.
PINSKY: But Jonathan Meadows` sibling say he was a good dad and this was cold-blooded murder. Back with Lisa, Yodit, Spirit, and Pat. Joining us by
phone I have Lena Cooper, she is Jonathan Meadows` sister. Now, Lena first of all, we`re sorry for your loss. This is just a tragedy all the way
around.
LENA COOPER, JONATHAN MEADOWS` SISTER: Thank you very much.
PINSKY: And you would send us photos of your brother and Brisha and they show to what you say is more characteristic representation of their
relationship was that it was a good relationship?
COOPER: Correct.
PINSKY: Do you think -- well, let me put it this way, what do you think motivated your niece to do this? What was going through her head, do you
think?
COOPER: Well, to me I -- really honestly, I don`t know, but, I mean there`s a lot more to this crime than what is on the surface. I`ve heard different
-- if you ask any of my family members, they`ll tell you -- each one of us was told a different story on how this happened.
That`s why we don`t feel that everything -- the family is being honest and truthful with everything that`s being told. When the police got there,
there were no signs of any type of abuse.
Normally, if someone is being beaten daily, you`d see bruises on them. School counsellors are trained and teachers are trained to know signs of
abuse.
Their son even told my son a matter of days ago that, you know, their father never physically abused them. He may have mentally or verbally said
bad things to them, but I mean, that`s something that a lot of parents do like he said that sometimes if he got -- brought home a B he might have
said you could have gotten an A.
I mean that`s no reason to say that your dad is mentally or verbally abusing you. My brother loved his children. And I mean if you look at the
pictures that I`ve sent, you can -- there are no signs of any type of fear or animosity in those pictures.
And I was just there in May, in the house for Mother`s Day, and I interacted with all of them. When my mother died in Labor Day last year, I
interacted with them. I had them in our hotel room. So, they could have easily spoken to any of us.
I mean, if Brandy`s sister is a domestic violence advocate, if she got her out of there in 2011, there`s no reason why she couldn`t have got out of
there stay. They have two grown children...
PINSKY: ...I may interrupt you for a quick second there because I want to get to my panel then to see what their responses are to what you have to
say here, Spirit, you and I have been uncomfortable with this -- everything about this makes us uncomfortable I would say, wouldn`t you say?
SPIRIT: Yes, yes.
PINSKY: And then what she is saying makes me even more concerned, and even let`s say he was severely abusive, I know there are attorneys have said
that there is a defense here, but boy that`s a heck of a standard.
SPIRIT: Well, you know, and I was listening to the child`s attorney during the last break, Dr. Drew and to his point, my question then was if all of
that have actually transpired, then we need to have charges brought against the state here because DEFAX never stepped in and did their job against
these teachers...
PINSKY: Yes.
SPIRIT: ...who never stepped in...
PINSKY: Yes.
SPIRIT: ...and did their job.
PINSKY: Right.
[19:40:00] SPIRIT: It just sounds like then a ball would have been missed in so many places up until now if this truly was the type of abuse history
that he`s talking about.
PINSKY: Pat, go ahead. Hang on -- hang on over here Pat.
SPIRIT: And then to hear to mom...
PINSKY: Go ahead.
LALAMA: Well, I was just going to say very quickly is that the defense attorney was talking about the myriad police reports and evidence. We need
to see that. The prosecutor made a statement in one of the reports that I read saying I see no evidence of that.
But you know if the defense attorney is saying we`re going to bring that you`re going to see 18 years of beating and pounding and everything else,
then that`s going to be a different story but...
PINSKY: It is a different story, yes.
LALAMA: ...right now, it just seems to me like we`ve got a very, very troubled teenage girl...
PINSKY: And...
BLOOM: ...but that`s the way domestic violation is. Families do hide it, perpetrators...
PINSKY: Yes.
BLOOM: ...are able to do it. They don`t show bruise...
SPIRIT: Exactly.
BLOOM: ...and certainly don`t do it...
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: If I may for a second, they don`t do it when someone is snapping a camera at a graduation. You know, the girl is not going to do anything
other than smile next to her daddy. So, we don`t know -- we need the evidence. I agree.
TEWOLDE: Right.
BLOOM: And this is -- I wonder about the mom a lot.
PINSKY: Yes, of course.
BLOOM: ...you know, the mom calls her a hero. Why doesn`t mom take the kids and protect her own children.
TEWOLDE: Right. Right.
BLOOM: If she is not able to protect her own children...
TEWOLDE: Right.
PINSKY: Right.
BLOOM: ...she shouldn`t be encouraging a 14-year-old to pick up a gun and kill daddy.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: No, of course not -- of course not. Your -- it`s interesting that the attorneys are most comfortable with this than any of us. This is kind
of a role switch. But go ahead Yodit.
TEWOLDE: It`s not that I`m comfortable, but I`ve seen it. I was prosecuting family violence cases and a lot of times the victims wanted charges dropped
against their spouse or significant other...
PINSKY: Of course, all the time.
TEWOLDE: ...and that wasn`t because the -- well, it wasn`t because the assault didn`t occur...
PINSKY: Yes.
TEWOLDE: ...that`s for a myriad of reasons, right?
PINSKY: Right, right.
TEWOLDE: So, again to say that the state might have dropped the ball, now sometimes you can`t move forward on a case without the victim`s testimony
and sometimes on those slim chances you actually can`t move forward. So, I wouldn`t say that the ball was dropped here and I do agree that we don`t
know a whole lot of the evidence...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Exactly.
TEWOLDE: ...that the attorney is willing to put forward and once we see that then we can make decisions.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Exactly.
TEWOLDE: But as of right now, I can`t necessarily say and I feel bad for the family that lost, you know, their brother and their son, but you can`t
necessarily understand what`s going on in a household unless you`re there all the time.
PINSKY: Well, that`s right but to be fair, Lena`s point was solid which was that Lena, it`s -- who is it that`s the domestic violence expert -- the
sister?
COOPER: Her sister...
PINSKY: Her sister.
COOPER: ...her sister that works for the Cleveland Police Department.
PINSKY: And certainly that`s where the ball, you know, I know she got her at once before but again the system didn`t follow through in some way. So,
I`ll give you last word here, I`ve got about 10 seconds.
COOPER: OK. My only point is all this abuse and everything they`re documenting is from 2011. There`s not anything recent, not any police
record or anything else...
PINSKY: What do you think? What happened...
COOPER: ...to the house.
PINSKY: What happened here? What`s your guess?
COOPER: It`s an unruly child. Moneys were caught (ph) doing something she should not have been doing at 14 and that`s why she ran away. And that`s
what it all stemmed from...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, oh that...
COOPER: ...but the media is portraying it differently.
BLOOM: Yes, but to pick up a gun and shoot her dad...
PINSKY: Yes, that`s...
BLOOM: ...that`s more than unruly; this is a very troubled child...
PINSKY: Yes. You have to start real.
BLOOM: ...in a household that`s got some major issue.
PINSKY: But you have the real psychology.
COOPER: The whole thing that people told us at the funeral is that the fact that all of this was staged (ph). They had her do it because she would get
away with it, they thought. The family did not start all of this negativity towards my brother until Brisha was put in jail and not released.
PINSKY: All right, so Pat last thought real quick.
(CROSSTALK)
LALAMA: Just very quickly, I want people to remember these words "My daughter is my hero"...
PINSKY: Yes. That was weird.
LALAMA: ...after she shot her father.
PINSKY: That`s weird. All trouble with...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then we should just move on.
PINSKY: Everything about this...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now, we can all move on.
PINSKY: Everything about this is troubling, troubling, troubling. Thank you everybody.
Next, caught on tape, a woman with a painted face ransacks a family`s home while mom, dad, and six others sleep through the whole thing upstairs.
You`ll see it after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:45:00] MICHELLE PHILLIPS, HOMEOWNER WHO WAS INVADED BY STRANGER: The video of her walking down the hallway is so haunting.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Phillips says she and her husband woke up to find her home ransacked. They check their security video and discover their home had
an unwelcomed visitor in the night.
The stranger wearing face makeup made food for herself and tried on clothes all the while eight people slept inside the home.
PINSKY: Police say the suspect was arrested at her residence, which is about half a mile from the ransacked home. She was charged with burglary,
theft, criminal trespassing, and, shocking possession of methamphetamine.
Back with Lisa, Yodit, and Spirit and Spirit it`s a reminder of how bizarre meth addicts get. The bizarre, I`ve seen, I can`t even and who knows what
they think they`re doing is miles away from what they`re actually doing oftentimes, too.
SPIRIT: Yes, Dr. Drew. She is lucky that she did not lose her life. I cannot fathom for the life of me...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
SPIRIT: ...how this many people were sleeping upstairs and no one heard her. I mean she came in to the right house that night because had it been
my house Dr. Drew, this would have turned out much, much differently. I guarantee it.
PINSKY: And Yodit, you`re laughing. She made a -- what was it a cream cheese sandwich on a hot dog bun. She painted her face up, put on a
baseball cap. I think she`s doing a laundry in this little picture we`re seeing.
I mean, you know, she probably -- you know, they get her in (INAUDIBLE). They are so psychotic. They don`t know where they are, but you find --
you`re smiling.
TEWOLDE: Yes, because I was thinking the very same thing. I said, you know, this is the kind of thing that actually ends up in a shooting because...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
TEWOLDE: ...if I woke up and found someone in my house in the middle of the night, I`m going to shoot first and ask questions later period...
PINSKY: And to be...
TEWOLDE: ...so, she`s lucky her life wasn`t ended.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can I make another suggestion?
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: I believe. Please, I`m learning a lot about you two tonight particularly Lisa and Yodit. But go ahead Lisa.
(CROSSTALK)
[19:50:00] BLOOM: ...I mean in American cultures, we should all have guns and bang, bang shoot everybody, big barking dogs -- two big barking rescue
dogs. Nobody`s sneak in to my house...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Really Lisa.
BLOOM: ...not -- no...
SPIRIT: Bye, Lisa. Bye -- bye, Lisa.
BLOOM: Yes. Try sneaking into my house and see how that goes.
(LAUGHTER)
TEWOLDE: Come on.
PINSKY: But your dogs are vegan, Lisa to be fair.
(LAUGHTER)
BLOOM: And they are very serious.
PINSKY: But it`s true.
(LAUGHTER)
BLOOM: No cream cheese sandwiches...
PINSKY: But I will say that, you know, if she was found possession of methamphetamine but she might have been on other substances as well. People
that take meth also like other things and she looks a little more not just stimulant intoxicated. You`d see the way she sort of...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
PINSKY: ...you know, sort of tattering there she moves around. She`s been caught for possession of methadone in the past. She has a mile long history
of -- rap (ph) sheet mile long instances of criminal trespassing, reckless endangerment and probation violations and Lisa she is just 24 years of age.
But to me, it`s all...
BLOOM: Yes, I mean I`m glad she didn`t -- I`m glad she didn`t get shot. I mean she did a terrible thing, you know, breaking and entering. She`s
obviously a very troubled drug abuser and she`s very young and I hope she gets the treatment she needs and she can turn her life around. I`m sure we
all feel that way.
PINSKY: She -- meth addicts tells me that sometimes they feel like a strobe light is going off as they are trying to move through life and they`ve
become psychotic.
I know one story of a guy thought his grandmother had raised his house three feet and put -- and literally built a factory underneath his back
(ph) to send demons up to torment him and he started shooting at the demons.
And so meth addicts often get very violent which she doesn`t look violent here which make me think that there may be hallucinogen and/or opiates
involved but then she`s been on methadone in the past which is an opiate which is why she looked so intoxicated.
But she has -- she probably thinks she`s in her house. I mean she has no idea where she is...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For sure.
PINSKY: ...or what she is doing.
Now, this suspect -- this woman is a mother. Court records revealed that she petitioned for custody -- for a custody case in 2011. So, Spirit, this
woman has a child with whom -- for whom she has custody.
SPIRIT: And this is beyond me Dr. Drew. Hopefully, that child is somewhere now and is going to be safe for a very long time. And mom should have to
have some extensive rehab work...
PINSKY: Yes, longstanding.
SPIRIT: ...and an extensive period of sobriety...
PINSKY: Yes.
SPIRIT: ...before she gets custody of this child again.
PINSKY: And you and I are talking about it like a year or so. When we get back from the break...
SPIRIT: At least.
PINSKY: Yes, when we get back from the break, I`m going to show you or tell you what the homeowner is experiencing now that they`ve literally lived
through this kind of an invasion. It`s quite a violation. We`ll tell you after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:55:00] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The images of a stranger making herself at home in her home are forever painted in Phillips (ph) mind.
PHILLIPS: ...she is moving in on. The time it comes really alive is at night when you close your eyes. The video of her walking down the hallway
is so haunting.
PINSKY: She`s absolutely right. We`re back with Lisa, Yodit, and Spirit. The homeowner, whom you heard there, Michelle Phillips talks about how she
is haunted by the footage and says. "The time" -- well, this is the exact what she had just said, "the time it really comes alive is at night when
you close your eyes."
And, Spirit, you know, it`s easy for us all to look at that footage and think, oh my God, it`s bizarre, how awful, how weird. But when that`s your
home, that`s your living room, your kitchen, you`re watching essential an out-of-control ghoul walk around and who knows what she was capable of
doing in that altered state, it`s a profound violation?
SPIRIT: Absolutely, Dr. Drew. It totally changes how you perceive your safety. And what I would say is that if this family doesn`t have guns in
the house do not -- do not -- do not go out and get guns because of this.
Because they`ll be so on edge and they`ll have this hyper reaction to what`s happened out of fear and someone could really get hurt.
PINSKY: And remember this woman is essentially a neighbor. She is severely mentally ill. She`s a bad drug addict. It`s not something you...
SPIRIT: None of that matters to me.
PINSKY: Well, she -- but, the point is she didn`t intend to harm anybody...
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: ...but still equally...
SPIRIT: None of that matter, people still gets hurt.
PINSKY: No, no. I`m with you.
SPIRIT: No, no.
PINSKY: But I`m just saying is that, you know, there`s a way to understand what happened here, but who knows what -- how she might have misinterpreted
the situation if that woman...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
PINSKY: ...with the paint in face encountered one member of that family while the kids are...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If one of the children woke up.
PINSKY: Yes, and so thought she...
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: was in her house and she saw somebody...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
PINSKY: ...in her house. Yodit, what are you thinking?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
TEWOLDE: I just don`t understand how eight people couldn`t hear this woman in their kitchen making food, rummaging through their stuff, trying on
clothes I don`t understand...
BLOOM: They probably did hear and they thought it was another family member...
PINSKY: Maybe...
BLOOM: ...because there are eight people in the house.
TEWOLDE: Right, exactly.
PINSKY: Maybe.
TEWOLDE: Maybe but you would think a family that had video surveillance footage or had that capability setup would at least have an alarm, maybe. I
don`t know.
Because think about it no one would have known that this was her if they didn`t have -- nobody just has -- like video. I don`t -- at home, I don`t
have surveillance.
So, I would have woken up that morning and then would have been like what the hell happened here.
PINSKY: Well, that was precisely...
TEWOLDE: And I would have known at all what had happened.
PINSKY: ...precisely their reaction until they watched the home video surveillance video. So, there you go and...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
PINSKY: ...but, you know, to Lisa`s point, you know, a dog might have made some noise. Did any of you have interior cameras in your house? I think of
you have...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do.
PINSKY: OK. Is that...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
PINSKY: ...for security? Is that?
SPIRIT: I`m not telling.
(LAUGHTER)
BLOOM: Keep an eye on my husband when I`m away.
PINSKY: Got it.
TEWOLDE: We already know that you have a gun.
CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Check.
TEWOLDE: We already know you have a gun, spirit.
BLOOM: Could have. They are very low cost.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: Did you guys don`t want to hear what she said, I`m just saying. All right, listen. I appreciate it. But, my point is well taken about the dogs.
And you -- and Lisa, I`m giving you a little grief here but you do have vegan dogs.
BLOOM: I do.
PINSKY: Yes, right there you go.
BLOOM: Because I love animals and I have very healthy dogs. And I am...
TEWOLDE: Get a gun.
BLOOM: ...very healthy family.
PINSKY: But, the point is, I have dogs too. And I feel pretty secure that the dogs at least let me know what`s going on when...
BLOOM: You know, a twig snaps a mile away, my dog are barking. Their head is up, so nobody is sneaking into my house.
SPIRIT: Yes.
BLOOM: And nobody can turn your dog on you...
PINSKY: And -- and listen...
BLOOM: ...what they can do with the gun.
PINSKY: ...and there were some new data just came out that said raising your kids around dogs and even farm animals reduces the risk of asthma.
BLOOM: Oh, yes. And also make some more compassionate...
SPIRIT: I saw that.
PINSKY: Yes.
BLOOM: ...get your kids a dog. Get your house a dog.
PINSKY: All right.
BLOOM: You won`t have weirdos sneaking.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: There we go. Well, thank you all. That`s the panel.
(CROSSTALK)
SPIRIT: No, that`s not going to stop there.
[20:00:00] PINSKY: Thank you all for watching. We will leave it right there. We`ll see you next time.
Nancy Grace, up next.
END
