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Dr. Drew
Man Climbs Trump Tower From Outside; Desperate Dads Hoping for Help in Murders of Daughters; The George Zimmerman Playbook; NYPD Hold Conference on Trump Tower Climber. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired August 10, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:00] DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: We have breaking news tonight, a drama that began just a few hours ago has just ended. A man climbed Trump tower,
of course that`s the campaign headquarters for the republican presidential nominee, Donald Trump.
Trump lives in this building, which is also the Trump corporate headquarters. The building is 68 stories high. The climber`s name is Steve,
Steve from Virginia. He made it to the 22nd floor. He was pulled into a window by a New York City police officer -- or a couple it is, and
arrested.
Why he did this is not clear. It may have been for publicity. CNN reports that he posted a video on You Tube yesterday detailing his plan. I looked
at that video. It`s a little unclear what his motivation is. Giant airbags were inflated on the ground, just in case.
There should have been -- it could have been something like a fall or something perhaps -- was something equipment could have fallen as well. He
will be charged. We don`t know what the charges are just yet and we will update you later. NYPD is expected to speak very shortly about this
incident.
Now, tonight, desperate dads hoping for a break in the cases of their two murdered daughters. The women had gone jogging alone but in broad daylight
near their homes but never returned. Vanessa Marcotte`s body was found in the woods in a small Massachusetts town. Karina Vetrano`s body was
discovered by her own father in the tall weeds of a park in Queens, New York.
This morning, Karina`s dad announced a GoFundMe site to set up to raise 100,000 dollars. Joining me, Areva Martin, attorney, Bill Stanton, private
investigator, former NYPD officer, Spirit, psychotherapist, and Pat Lalama, managing editor, Crime Watch Daily. Pat, can you give us the latest?
PAT LALAMA, MANAGING EDITOR, CRIME WATCH DAILY: Well, yes. The fact of the matter is that Philip Vetrano is stepping up his game, Dr. Drew, to try to
solve this case, and he thinks money could be the answer, and what Philip is saying, a grieving father is, look, I was there during 9/11.
I was there for my city, now come and help me. I`m setting up this GoFundMe, please give us some money, perhaps that will bring some of the
clues out of the closet so we can get this case solved.
In the meantime, Dr. Drew, what`s interesting is you`re probably seeing all these articles in reference to -- in reference to joggers safety and in
that community where Karina was so heinously murdered, people are up in arms. They`re saying that property is federal property.
They`ve let it go. The weeds are this high, there`s vagrants, there`s drug dealing, it`s a dumping ground for dead bodies, and no one`s doing anything
about it. So there`s a whole host of other social issues that have created fallout as a result of the case in Queens.
PINSKY: And we have a live look at the GoFundMe page, Pat. The total now is up to 128,000 dollars, which seemed like he has exceeded his original goal.
Bill, I want to ask you, what your sense is of the profile suggested by the evidence in this murder. She was hauled into the woods. It was a -- it was
a route she took frequently with her father, this one day she went out by herself. It`s daytime. It`s in a notorious sort of region. But still, it
feels like somebody was lying in wait.
BILL STANTON, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR, FORMER NYPD OFFICER: I agree, doc. And, you know, the NYPD and FBI, they`re looking at everything and anything
including the family. So let`s discount the dad and we can go into that another time, but I discount the father.
I`m also going to discount any ex-boyfriends. The reason being is because that would have been an electronic trail, whether it was with her friends
or statements on the cell phone, so I`m going to discount that.
Where I`m going be looking at is that homeless guy, that vagrant, that -- that person that always goes in that park that sees her like clockwork
every day going at this time, and that`s what they`ve got to be looking at in my opinion.
PINSKY: This is a horrible incident. Pat, are you disagreeing with that?
LALAMA: Yeah. You know, I mean, who knows for sure, let`s get that out of the way, but there`s just something in my 40 years, yes 40 years of
covering crime, and I`m not a criminalist, I`m not a cop, but I just have an instinct that there`s some connection to her assailant.
I don`t know what it is. I mean, she was in this area with her dad every night, so how all of a sudden would this person know, oh, ghee, there she
is alone and the timing is perfect. I don`t know, Dr. Drew. I could be way off. I just feel like there`s something more to it that a random vagrant.
PINSKY: All right. It`s a -- it`s a feeling but Bill is saying that random vagrant was somebody who stayed there, stayed in that vicinity and watched
every night as she went by.
LALAMA: But the thing is that I`ve also read today there really isn`t a whole lot of crime in this area and certainly there wasn`t a crime like
this in this area.
[19:05:00] PINSKY: Well, I had heard that the city and the surrounding residents have been complaining about this area for a long time, in fact.
LALAMA: But not for this kind of crime.
PINSKY: Not for this kind of crime, but it was a notorious area, it needed to be cleaned up. There were concerns about it. My question is to Arevea
is, does the -- I guess it would be the federal government or the city have any liability they would incur for not having dealt with this?
AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY: Yeah. I think we`re going to see a big civil lawsuit and name in the lawsuit is probably going to be the city as well as
the federal government if indeed this is a national park.
These kinds of lawsuits are pretty common when someone is injured on a property and there can be some claim made that that property was not well
maintained, it was not well-lit, it was not well-secured.
Now, there comes the issue of this third-party criminal actor, but if this family can establish that the city, the government, or whomever is
responsible for this park had noticed, had knowledge of criminal activity in this area, they may be able to make a very viable claim, and I think
we`re going to start to hear about lawyers getting involved in looking at is there are some claim for damage this father can file.
PINSKY: And -- and once again, Pat won`t have it.
LALAMA: I -- I see the point, but I think it`s a little bit of a flagrant kind of legal action that would be taken. You know, you could say that
about anywhere you go at any time of the day in any city.
PINSKY: Pat, that`s what happens.
MARTIN: Pat, with all due respect, that`s wrong. What you`re saying is absolutely wrong. Those kinds of lawsuits are filed and they`re one (ph)
every day.
PINSKY: That`s the point.
LALAMA: You have to find some pattern that people were aware that heinous acts of criminality were happening in this area.
MARTIN: No. You`re wrong, Pat. You`re wrong about the law. It doesn`t require that. If this family can establish that this park had a history --
we`ve heard about crime being committed in this area, that will get them to a certain point in this lawsuit, and I think they can get a settlement and
probably win this case at trial.
PINSKY: I heard that they were complaining about the weeds being problematic, that people could be hiding in it or there were concern about
it for some reason.
The record and the vagrancy and all stuff. There was a record of the community complaining about it. Let me show you what a reporter in this
conference asked Mr. Vetrano why he was saying so actively involved in this case. Take a look.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s been just over a week now. Have you been able to heal at all?
PHILIP VETRANO, FATHER OF KARINA VETRANO: I don`t think healing is anywhere in my future. There`s no heal. I need to stay involved. Once I`m
involved, then I feel I`m accomplishing something. If I wake up and there`s nothing for me to do, that`s when the bottom`s going to drop out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Spirit, I think he`s right. I think emotionally, it`s his one sort of -- two things that keeps him connected to his daughter in some way, and
it keeps him -- gives him a sense of purpose.
SPIRIT, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: That`s right. What you have here, Dr. Drew, is a man who is in mourning at the loss of his daughter and he said, I need to
do something, otherwise the bottom is going to drop out.
What he really means is I don`t know what would happen to me then. This is my now reason to live and my reason to go on.
PINSKY: Do you know what? I -- I feel so -- such empathy for that man. I think he`s spot on. Anyone in his position would feel like that and we have
to do something. You just have to feel like you`re -- I mean, justice becomes his -- his way of grieving. What, Pat?
LALAMA: You know, I speak in some ways from some personal experience in this area when a child and a family is lost, you -- your whole days are
spent -- there`s no -- you never truly focus on your own life ever fully again, and I think it does keep him alive and, yeah, our hearts go out to
him. And even finding the killer will not bring that closure.
PINSKY: I`m afraid not. The grieving is -- you know, as people tell me that oftentimes the grieving, you grieve, but you never, never get over.
LALAMA: You`re never the same.
PINSKY: Never the same.
LALAMA: Never the same.
PINKSY: Next, I`ve got more on the Trump tower climber. He is now in safe custody. I`ve also got an update on the Massachusetts jogger murder, the
victim`s father has a message for her killer. And later, how could this happen? A 73-year-old woman in a citizens police academy course is
accidentally shot and killed? Back after this.
[19:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Breaking news, we have an update on the man who climbed Trump tower this evening. He made it to the 22nd floor before New York police pulled
him in a window. Republican presidential candidate, Donald Trump, lives in this building, which is also a home to his campaign.
Why so-called Steve from Virginia, that`s all we know about him, why he did this is not clear. He did post something on You Tube yesterday about his
plan, but I couldn`t figure out what he wanted really. I`ve got CNN`s Brynn Gingras in New York right there at the foot of Trump tower with the latest.
What do you have, Brynn?
BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN REPORTER: Yeah, Drew. This Steve, that`s all we know about him, that`s because -- that`s what he told the negotiators, that he
was climbing that building, that was his name. There`s obviously was some more conversation to be had between police and this man identified as
Steve.
But yet we have not learned all of that information yet. I will say a pretty dramatic scene here though, near fifth avenue at Trump tower. The
moment when he actually was pulled in to that window by police. We`re gonna go out there so you could see it.
He is at 20, actually first floor, that`s where the ES units were when they actually pulled him in and on the ground 21 floors below, there was a huge
gasp from this crowd.
Actually walking right by me, Drew, is commissioner Bill Bratton, so obviously he was here on the scene while this all unfolded. Again, this
man, went to the 21st floor. He was doing this for over three hours about five heavy suction cups slowly going up this side of the building as a very
crowded area of New York City was filled with people.
While he was climbing, he was actually throwing things out of his bag. It looks like bottles of water. Police say nothing dangerous. But at this
point right now, we do know he has been arrested.
We don`t know again what his motive was. We do know, of course, Mr. Trump was not here. A lot of questions though, Drew, especially since of course
this is a presidential candidate. How did the man even get to the point of being able to climb this building.
So hopefully we`ll learn more answers to our questions because police are actually having a news conference shortly, Drew. We should get some more
answers shortly.
[19:15:00] PINSKY: All right, Brynn. Thanks. You`ll hear me mispronounce your name again, so that`s perfect, but thank you for that report. I
appreciate it.
We`re also watching video of this young man he posted on You Tube, which is -- he does not look exactly the -- I don`t know, a picture of emotional
health, I`m just saying.
I think police -- hats off to the New York Police Department for an incredible job with no one having gotten hurt after this very extreme hair-
raising experience.
All right. We`re going to switch gears and we`re going to talk back once again about these terrible murders, one in New York, the other in
Massachusetts. And earlier today, jogger Karina Vetrano`s dad spoke about the murder of his daughter, whose body was found by him, after she never
returned home.
Vanessa Macotte`s dad has also spoken about the murder of his daughter, quote, how can anything ever be all right again when your only child has
been horribly murdered. I ask you to pray that whoever this is, is caught.
She was the best kid in the world. She was 100 percent into her job. She graduated at the top of her class. She knew how smart she was. Back with
Areva, Bill, Spirit, and Pat, and Pat, what is the latest on this case?
LALAMA: Well, on this particular case, police have hundreds of tips, and that could be helpful, it could also be quite daunting because a lot of
them, you know, valuable resources to take up looking at everything to one of them.
But there are at least a lot of tips going in. What`s really troubling about this case is it appears that the assailant tried to burn her body,
her hands, her feet, whether that would happen during the attack, we don`t know, or maybe trying to cover up fingerprints or any kind of identifying
factors, we don`t know.
She was partially clothed. And here`s the other thing. There is an autopsy, but at this point, the authorities are being mum about what that autopsy
revealed or the cause of death, which could mean the experts can tell you that maybe they know some stuff and they`re keeping it to themselves.
PINSKY: Yeah. Let me go to Bill. So, Vanessa was allegedly raped and burned, I guess, to her hands and feet we`re hearing. Again, we don`t know
whether that is the killer trying to destroy evidence. We don`t know if there was a propellant used. We don`t know what this was, but what`s your
hunch on this one?
STANTON: Well, like you said, doc, maybe ritual, maybe trying to dispose of the body. Again, my condolences to both of these fathers. And you know,
this is a warning to women and anyone in general. You know, be careful for goodness sake.
You know, we put on ear phones and we get on our smart phones and we think we`re expected by this bubble. You know, you really have to be aware what`s
going on around you.
This is a different type of murder. This -- you know, this person actually had a plan in his head by getting -- trying to burn the body, and hopefully
there`s enough physical evidence to lead to a conviction and an arrest.
PINSKY: And spirit, what that dad said, I think, rings so true, that`s what we were talking about in the other -- the other block, which is that this
is something you never get over.
SPIRIT: Never. I mean, and the loss of a child, period, Dr. Drew, is something that a parent will never get over, but I hope that all of these
families will get the help that they need because the reality is, that life will go on and the quality of their life is what determines how they will
continue to live, and I just hope that they don`t live locked in these horrible, horrible days for the rest of their life.
PINSKY: So that was a quote from Vanessa`s dad we were just talking about. I want to play you now a sound bite from Karina`s dad. This is now back in
Queens, New York, who was asked about the Marcotte case in Massachusetts. It gets a little bit confusing. Take a look.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you gotten any indication that there are any similarities between what happened to your daughter and what happened to
the jogger in Massachusetts?
VETRANO: Totally unrelated.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you had any contact with that family?
VETRANO: No. We`re very private. We don`t want to speak with anybody. This is only being done out of necessity to help us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Bill, do you think Karina`s dad is correct, that there`s no link between these two?
STANTON: I think -- I think it`s a horrible coincidence. I don`t think there`s link.
PINSKY: Let me ask you this. Bill, do you think there`s a possibility that the Massachusetts killer somehow felt embolden by the fact that the monster
in New York was able to get away with this without consequence? Thus far?
STANTON: Well, you know, you never know. I mean, that`s really drilling down deep. I don`t want to speculate that far. What I -- what I will
speculate is, I think the fact that in the Brooklyn and Queens case, the fact that there`s not a conviction, tells me inside baseball that it`s not
someone she dealt with directly.
Now, my understanding is, is that she worked in the night clubs. Now, these women have their own little celebrity. What I will put forth is maybe she
had a following. Maybe there`s spurned lover that she never knew. What do I mean? Psychologically in his head, he had a relationship with this young
lady.
[19:20:00] PINSKY: A stalker. A stalker.
STANTON: That`s right.
PINKSY: That`s Karina we`re talking about.
STANTON: That`s right.
PINSKY: Yet Spirit, the Massachusetts case was a very different case. This was somebody way in her career. She was a Google employee, very, very
different profile.
SPIRIT: Very, very different profile. I mean, you can just tell, Dr. Drew, when the one case you have sexual assault here, we don`t know exactly
what`s happened, but when someone would go to that level of detail, where they`re burning the hands, burning the feet, this is a very different
psychological profile here, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Next up, I have a white homeowner who calls 911, says he is, quote, locked and loaded, and then killed a black man outside his house. And
later, a training accident gone horribly wrong when an elderly woman, a retired librarian, is killed during a citizens police drill. Back after
this.
[19:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They took my baby.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Raleigh police say Thomas was shot and killed early Sunday morning outside a home on single leaf lane. 911 calls from residents
describe a group of men with firearms roaming the street. According to police, 39-year-old Chad Copley stood in the garage of his home and shot
Thomas, who was outside.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The man`s body was right in front of the mailbox. I don`t know how he was a threat from the garage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Chad Copley is charged with murder from firing what he called a quote, warning shot, that both struck and killed the 20-year-old man, who
was leaving a party down the street.
I`m back with Bill, Spirit, and Pat, and joining us, I have Eric Guster, civil rights and trial attorney, and Horace Cooper, co-chair of Project 21,
the National Leadership Network of Black Conservatives. Now, I`d like you all to listen to the 911 call Mr. Copley made before he fired his weapon.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
CHAD COPLEY, CHARGED WITH MURDER: We got a bunch of hoodlums out here racing. I`m locked and loaded. I`m going outside to secure my neighborhood.
You need to send P.D. as quickly as possible.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m sorry. You`re going out to do what to the neighborhood, sir?
COPLEY: I`m going to secure my neighborhood. I`m on the neighborhood watch. I`m going to have the neighbors with me. There`s hoodlum out here racing up
and down the street. It`s 1 o`clock in the morning. There`s several dozen of them. They have firearms and we`re to secure our neighborhood.
If I were you, I`d spend P.D. as quickly as possible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: The victim in this case was Kouren-Rodney Thomas. Pat, is there actually evidence that any of the young men out on the street that night
were armed?
LALAMA: At this point, we can only go by what this person -- we assume to be Mr. Copley, because the call came from his house. That`s his word. I
mean, some of the quotes, I don`t know if you heard them all, a bunch of hoodlums, I`m locked and loaded, they`re all over the place, they`re racing
out here, I fired my warning shot like I was supposed to by law, and there are "frigging" black males outside my house.
I mean, we don`t know all the facts. We don`t know all the facts at this point, but there is no evidence that anybody was aiming a firearm at him at
this point.
PINSKY: Horace, what is with this warning shot. What`s he talking about?
HORACE COOPER, CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR, NATIONAL LEADERSHIP NETWORK OF BLACK CONSERVATIVES: I think he has a misunderstanding about the law. The
law will allow you to warn people that you`re carrying a firearm, but you`re actually not allowed in almost every jurisdiction in the country to
discharge your firearm even into the ground unless you`re in a special area where discharges are allowed.
So it`s really troubling from that perspective that he was under this impression. But I am curious to get a little bit more information about the
incident, what led to it, why he was on this heightened or elevated level concern at that hour.
PINSKY: Yeah. And he mentioned other neighbors with him. Who are they? Where are they? I`m going to play for you some more of the 911 call to
believed to be Mr. Copley after he had fired this weapon. Here it is.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir, can you tell me exactly what happened?
COPLEY: Yes, ma`am. We have -- our house -- we have a lot of people outside of our house, yelling and shouting profanities. I yelled at them, please
leave the premises. They were showing a firearm, so I fired a warning shot and we got somebody that -- that got hit.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Okay. Somebody was shot?
COPLEY: Well, I don`t know if they`re shot or not, ma`am. I fired my warning shot like I`m supposed to by law.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Okay.
COPLEY: They do have firearms and I`m trying to protect myself and my family.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Okay. Sir, who was it that came to your house?
COPLEY: Ma`am, I don`t know who they are. There`s a party right down the road.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir, did they just show up at your house?
COPLEY: Send P.D. alright?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m gonna send them over there, sir, but I need to know what`s going on.
COPLEY: There are frigging black males outside my frigging house with firearms. please send P.D. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Okay.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Pat, what is this threat, he thinks he`s seeing, and is he in fact part of some neighborhood watcher? This is something he`s declaring for
himself?
LALAMA: He claims he was part of a neighborhood watch, shades of Trayvon Martin case, I suggest. But here`s the thing, people in that community say
they tried in the past to have community watch programs and they never got off the ground and that no one in that area knew of any security community
watch program.
[19:30:00] No one is certain of what threat he felt. It`s basically his word. But one thing I will tell you, on one of the 911 calls -- and if I`m
not mistaken, it was the dispatcher calling back to the house, a woman speaks first and she said, I don`t know anything, I`m upstairs with my
kids.
And perhaps his argument is going to be that he felt that his wife and children -- just guessing here -- were in some sort of a danger and he had
to protect them. That`s all we know.
PINSKY: Okay. All right. Eric, it`s almost impossible not to draw a correlation between this and Trayvon Martin, and this -- the caller, it
makes it a racial issue. Is that what`s at the core here?
ERIC GUSTER, CIVIL RIGHTS AND TRIAL ATTORNEY: This is a pattern just like George Zimmerman. This is out of the George Zimmerman play book. This man
called the police to try to establish why he was going to confront these people. Then he called back to try to give rationality to reasons why he
shot this young man, because according to what I`ve read, the shot came from inside the house.
If a person is not on your property and not threatening you, you can`t even fire a warning shot. And with him shooting him, and ending up killing him,
this is what the George Zimmerman case was all about. He`s tried to set himself up to try to get his defense together, and it`s a horribly weak
defense, and Dr. Drew, this is going to be a nightmare for the community.
PINSKY: Bill, do you agree with that?
COOPER: This is the problem.
PINSKY: Go ahead, Horace. Go ahead, please.
COOPER: This is the problem. First of all, murder is one of the oldest laws in existence, thousands of years of existence, and we`re always going to
investigate incidents like this.
When the gentleman comes and he says that the problem here is, this was all based on a racial animus, which is a very, very strange phenomenon, I plan
to murder someone, I will call the police, get recorded what my motives are, and demonstrate where I am, lose any alibi whatsoever.
This is a very, very strange way of carrying out a murder. It sounds like a very, very sad misunderstanding -- misunderstanding of the law, and in
which a behavior that will have to have consequences, but not something that is the pattern that we ought to be concerned about.
PINSKY: And Spirit, I`m really out of time...
COOPER: This is a pattern we should be concerned.
PINSKY: We`re gonna get back and talk about the pattern, but, Spirit, I wonder if you see anything with this guy other than what Horace said?
SPIRIT: Oh, yes, I`m disgusted by the amount of entitlement that he had and what he knew he was emboldened to do, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Supposedly.
SPIRIT: It will take too long.
PINSKY: Okay. All right. We`ll get back to that.
SPIRIT: Not supposedly. We heard it.
PINSKY: We`re gonna do. We`ll talk more about it. Was there actually any threat from him? Hear from a neighbor who was there. And later, a small
Florida town coming to grips with the unthinkable. A 73-year-old woman in a police training course accidentally shot to death.
And of course, we`re also waiting for the NYPD press conference regarding the young man who was climbing the Trump tower and pulled in and rescued by
the New York Police Department. We`ll hear from the police department. There`s the press conference all set up, hopefully within five or ten
minutes. We`ll be right back.
[19:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: New York police are holding a press news conference right now about the Trump tower climber. We`re gonna go there live.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... Response Crew and the Critical Response Command, including Traffic Management Center, we extended our perimeter beyond the
building to the outside area in the vicinity.
Once we stabilized that perimeter, we requested the Fire Department and the Emergency Service Unit, Emergency Service Unit under the command of Chief
Giadano (ph) responded to the scene, took tactical control of the situation, and commenced operations.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got it as a jumper, somebody who attempted to jump in the building. First of all, personnel responded. The first contact was on
the tenth floor above the atrium. We were able to established -- we broke that window -- established some type of dialogue.
We then secured three jumper airbags and numerous amount of equipment for high-angle rescue jobs. The individual continued to descend vertical and
horizontal triple times. What we tried to do is try to isolate and contain him to the point where he would give us tackle advantage to take him into
custody.
We wanted to proceed slow and didn`t want the individual to fall so we wanted to do it in the most safe manner as possible. It got to a point
where we came up with a very good plan. The Emergency Service Personnel was on the scene.
We wanted to remove some of the glass and again try to prevent him from ascending any further up. He had some assistance from some places in the
scene. There were various assistance in removing panes of glass. We were also utilizing a scaffolding in lowering some personnel on the side of the
building from the 55th floor down, again to isolate him to a point where he no longer had the advantage of ascending.
Once we removed the panes of glass, it got to the point where his only way to ascend was to go pretty much probably two feet pane of glass between the
scaffolding and the officers that were at the window on the 21st floor.
We pretty much advised him that putting his suction cups and all weight on that window would possibly cause it to crack. That information was very
influential in providing that information to us and once he proceeded to pretty much ignore that and try to ascend, detective Williams and detective
Walker found the opportune moment to take advantage of that opportunity and bring that individual into safety in the window.
Lieutenant Lictria was the supervisor at the location, as well as Inspector Galvin (ph) and Inspector Sinegan (ph) who actually supporting me on the
21st floor. So again, we had a real good plan between ground operations and tactical operations on the level of the individual climbing to take that
person into custody in the most safe and efficient manner as possible.
[19:40:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chief of Manhattan South Detectives. This individual is a 20-year-old individual from Virginia. He came up here
yesterday. He stayed at a local hotel. What he explained to us is that that he wanted a personal interview with Donald Trump and he posted on You Tube
a video on Tuesday.
The You Tube video explains that he was an independent researcher and he wanted to meet with him and that`s the reason why he was climbing this
building. At no time did he express that he wanted to hurt anybody.
His sole intention was to meet with Mr. Trump. It took three hours to get him into custody and upon getting in custody, he explained the same thing,
that he wanted Mr. Trump`s attention and he wanted a meeting with him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any questions?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was in the backpack?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the backpack were -- what we got from him were the fire suction cups. We have identification that we recovered from him, his
various identifications. He was explaining that he previously went by one name and now he goes by a different name. We`re researching that, we`re
looking into that as part of the investigation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where was he taken?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where he was taken?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was taken to Bellevue Hospital. He`s gonna be psychologically evaluated, and he`s gonna be placed under arrest. We will
work with the Manhattan attorney`s office to determine the appropriate charges.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does it appear this individual has tried anything like this before?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m sorry, what?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It appears like he knew what he was doing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prepared to climb so many floors. Any background on him as a climber or anything like that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re looking into that, the section cups could have gotten -- he could have gotten them from any mountain-climbing type
facility or store, so that`s part of the investigation. We`re going to look into all of this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where was the secret service during all of this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: During the course of the operation, we were in the consultation with the secret service.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How was the guy able to climb up?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That matter is under investigation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he put up a fight when he was being swung in?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As I said before, we were in consultation with secret service throughout this operation. I would refer that question to the
secret service.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The situation you were waiting for and how it presented itself?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The chief can speak about when the decision was made and he`ll have the two officers explain.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That would be great. Okay.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Basically, this conversation that we said was he wanted to climb to the top.
PINSKY: We`re going to leave the press conference now and take a little break. When we come back, we`ll return to our previous stories.
[19:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here at his North Raleigh home on single leaf lane where police say he fired a shotgun from inside his garage towards the
street, striking and killing 20-year-old Kouren-Rodney Thomas.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Someone just got shot. Someone shot him out of his house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can`t even put in words how -- how -- how much they`ve taken from us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: 20-year-old man shot and killed by a homeowner who told police outright on quote, I`m locked and loaded, and about to quote, secure his
neighborhood. Police say Chad Copley fired a shot from his garage into the street. The bullet from a shotgun killed Kouren-Rodney Thomas, a young man
who was apparently just leaving a party in a neighborhood.
I`m back with Eric, Bill, Spirit, and Horace. Thank you for your patience, panel. The press conference has concluded. We`re going to return to the
story. Now, Spirit, you were talking about the depths of your concern about the story.
SPIRIT: Yeah, you know, Dr. Drew, I`m just totally disgusted by this. As a parent myself, he murdered somebody`s baby in the street, and he felt
emboldened and just okay to do what he did. This was purely psychopathic behavior, Dr. Drew, that he appears to show no remorse for even when he was
in the courtroom and winks to somebody as if to say, no worries, I`m all right, it will be okay.
PINSKY: We`re looking at that.
SPIRIT: What he said was, I`m taking matters into my own hands and law enforcement, what you should want to do, is get the police here. And if he
was firing a warning shot with a shotgun, for goodness sake, why did he shoot towards the street if it was intended to be a warning shot.
PINSKY: Yeah. And by the way, even in towards people, is the thing that kills me, towards the crowd. Bill, is there any other way you can
understand this incident?
STANTON: Well, there`s a whole lot of questions going on here. What I see is reckless endangerment and manslaughter. I mean, he was looking for
trouble and unfortunately, he found it and he`s gonna hopefully pay the price.
What I want to refrain from at this time is the race issue. Other than the fact that one person is one color and the other is another color...
SPIRIT: Excuse me.
PINSKY: This guy really made it a race issue. He mentioned it a couple of time. Eric, go ahead.
GUSTER: Yes. He made it a race issue. He said these hoodlums are outside of my neighborhood. These black men are on my street. And then, the key to
this, Dr. Drew, is when he said, I`m going to secure my neighborhood which means I don`t want these people in my neighborhood, so I`m going to shoot
them. Those are his own words that he said on the 911.
[19:50:00] PINSKY: Wait. Horace, go ahead. Horace.
COOPER: Those are interpretations of his words.
GUSTER: Those are his actual words.
COOPER: No, no. He did not say I`m securing my neighborhood because blacks are here. He did not say blacks don`t belong in this neighborhood, and this
neighborhood needs securing from them. But it was 1:00 a.m.
GUSTER: I want to secure my neighborhood. What is that mean? I don`t want these people...
COOPER: You`re interpreting. There we go again.
GUSTER: No. I said his actual words.
COOPER: I let you finish. You let me finish. Here`s the truth. The CDC lists homicide as the second leading cause of death for black men. We`re 6
percent of the population. There is no other ethnic group for which homicide is even in the top 10 percent list of killers.
Second data point, even though most people when they are murdered, they are killed by someone of their own race. When...
GUSTER: What does that have to do with this?
COOPER: Let me finish.
GUSTER: Nothing.
COOPER: When the races are different, it turns out there are more blacks who have killed whites than the other way around over the last 25 years.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: I got to let Horace finish. Horace, finish, and we`ll conclude this. We`ll hopefully come back another day and have this conversation
again. Go ahead, Horace, please.
COOPER: In every one of these instances...
PINSKY: Real quick.
COOPER: ... every one of the accused deserved to have the case investigated on the merits, not on the overall data point.
PINSKY: Agree.
SPIRIT: He`s talking about the merits, not statistics. That`s what you describing.
PINSKY: We`re going to leave it. It`s a very obviously heated topic. Next up, a retiree was shot and killed at a community police training course.
Back after this.
[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was supposed to be a fake police situation, a drill, but something ultimately ended up turning into a very real life
tragedy in Florida.
A 73-year-old woman is dead today after she was accidentally shot and killed during a police academy training exercise. She was participating in
an active shooter scenario when an officer mistakenly shot her with a live round of ammunition.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: 73-year-old Mary Knowlton, a retired librarian, pronounced dead at the hospital. And breaking now, the officer who fired that fatal shot has
just been identified as the Punta Gordan K-9 officer, Lee Coel. Back with Pat and Bill. Pat, what the heck happened here?
LALAMA: Well, who really knows at this point. Very quickly, Mary Knowlton was a philanthropist, a librarian, and really supported police officers,
and learned to show that support by being involved in this quick training scenario which you could see what it is like for them.
And the officer, they were in a scenario of bad cop, good cop, bad person, whatever, and he fires. It was supposed to be empty. Who knows. The big
question, how in the world did a live round end up in that gun.
PINSKY: Now, Pat, my understanding is that particular gun is something they use for demonstration routinely and it was a blank gun.
LALAMA: All the time.
PINSKY: Now, so the question is, did they have the wrong gun in there or there`s something about a blank gun that it can have a discharge that can
release some sort of debris or could a live round get into a blank gun. Let me go to Bill on that. You understand what I`m asking, right, Bill? I don`t
know enough about firearms to make that distinction. What happened?
STANTON: Well, I trained in a place called the Alliance Training Center in Alliance, Ohio, and we do these simulated gunfights, if you will. The first
thing we do, we check our live firearms at the door. And then we`re given guns that have seminitions.
It`s fake bullets. And they hit you. And you wear protective gear. At no time does a real firearm get anywhere near these demonstrations. And it
just goes to always say, whenever you have a gun, no matter what it is, always treat it as if it`s has live rounds and it`s a real gun.
PINSKY: So, I just want to make sure I understand what you`re saying. So, do you think something came out of a demonstration pistol? Some
demonstration gun?
STANTON: What I think happened is, I`m just going to fathom a guess, that someone put live rounds in the seminition gun...
PINSKY: I see.
STANTON: ... where the magazine went into the gun...
PINSKY: Got it.
STANTON: ... and it fired the live round by mistake.
PINSKY: Now, the officer who fired that fatal shot has been placed on administrative leave. Do we have time to show the tape of the son? Can we
show that real quickly? We have the son of the victim, I believe. Here it is.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`d been talking two nights before about how bad things were for the police in this nation after all the shootings. She wanted to
show her support. She wanted to make it clear to them that she supported them. Our society needs them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Pat, is this gonna be dealt with the legal system or this is just a tragic accident?
LALAMA: I think an investigation has already been launched because they want know exactly what happened and we should know. I just want to say real
quickly, her husband of 55 years witnessed it. Can you imagine?
PINSKY: There were 30 people in the room or something that saw this.
LALAMA: Unbelievable.
PINSKY: This was a huge, huge tragedy.
LALAMA: I really feel badly for that officer. Can you imagine?
PINSKY: I feel bad for the whole community. Accidents happen, that`s the bottom line. So there you go. Thank you guys. Thank you panelists. Thank
you all for watching. We appreciate it. We appreciate your support. We will see you back next time. Right now, Nancy Grace, begins next.
[20:00:00]
END
