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Dr. Drew

New York Reckless Endangerment Case Examined; Florida Woman Killed During Police Exercise; Joshua Blunt on Trial for Manslaughter After Baby is Left in a Hot Car.

Aired August 11, 2016 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DREW PINSKY, DR. DREW ON CALL HOST: Tonight, new developments in the Google jogger murder case. Police have released new information about Vanessa

Marcotte who vanished after going out for a run.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We believe that there was a struggle between Vanessa and her killer. That resulted, may have resulted, in her killer receiving

injuries in her assailant, we know was a man.

These injuries, specifically, were scratches, scrapes, and/or bruises. Therefore, we would ask that anyone who was observed a male with these

types of injuries that would have been fresh earlier in the week to contact the Massachusetts State Police tip line at a 508-453-7589.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: I want to give you that number again, it is 508-453-7589. Again, if you have noticed somebody who seemed to have unexplained wounds, a male,

earlier in the week, please make a phone call to that number, 508-453-7589.

Now, we are going on to our top story. We know more tonight about soc called Steve from Virginia, the man who scaled Trump tower using suction

cups and rope. The day before his climb, he posted a video to You Tube addressing Donald Trump specifically. Take a look at it.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello, Mr. Trump. Excuse my manner of appearance, I just don`t know how many people will watch this, and I`d rather not be

recognizable. I`m an independent researcher seeking a private audience with you to discuss an important matter. I guarantee that it is in your interest

to honor this request. Believe me, my purpose is not significant. I would not risk my life pursuing it.

The reason I climbed your tower was to get your attention. If I had saw this to be a conventional means, I would be much less likely to have

success, because you`re a busy man with many responsibilities. I`ll get my contact information to your campaign, so that if you are interested, you

can respond.

As for anyone else watching, please help me make this video go viral so that it gets to Mr. Trump, and be sure and get out to vote for Mr. Trump in

the 2016 election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Joining us to discuss, Anahita Sedaghatfar, attorney of Counsel to The Cochran Firm, Yodit Tewolde, attorney, Thema Davis, psychologist, and

Aaron Cohen, counter-terrorism expert, and finally Brynn Gingras, CNN correspondent. Brynn, what else do we know about this guy?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know, Steve from Virginia the full name, now, Drew. It`s Steven Regota (ph). He actually changed his name

from his birth name last year. His birth name was Michael Ryan. As we`ve been saying, he`s from Virginia, and now he is formally charged here in the

state of New York with reckless endangerment, which is a felony and criminal trespassing at this point.

NYPD is telling us even though he is still charged, he is currently still at a hospital being evaluated. Not really talking to investigators too much

at this point. Won`t answer any questions about the planning, if he`s had any sort of experience in using those large suction cups before, so not

getting much through their investigation.

What they are looking into are number of evidence pieces that they`ve collected so far. Let me go through them for you. One, was a notebook that

was left at the foot of the Trump tower before he started his climb. Inside that notebook sources tell us that there was a number of handwritten

messages including a reference to the You Tube video that you just showed your viewers.

Also, while he was climbing the Trump tower, he threw a laptop from his backpack, and we also know that he, again, came from Virginia yesterday,

rather, the day before, and stayed in a hotel, and then decided to climb yesterday. So, investigators are looking through his hotel room. They`re

looking through that laptop, looking through that notebook, and also they`ve seized his car which belong to his father.

So, there is a lot to look through right now, and, certainly, investigators are learning a lot. So far, though, they say that they`re not even sure if

he believed that he would actually complete this climb, even though that`s what he said in the video. That was his intention, Drew.

PINSKY: Thank you, Brynn. Aaron, what`s your assessment on this guy? I mean, it`s something I just -- it just looks like some significant mental

health issues among other issues.

AARON COHEN, COUNTER-TERRORISM EXPERT: Yeah, Drew. This feels a lot like a typical case of what we call in the security business with the Hollywood

security. This is erotic media which is when...

PINSKY: Stalking.

COHEN: ... stalking. It`s when somebody becomes the -- the object of the -- of the person`s affection. I feel this is some kind of pre-existing

relationship with him. This seems like it`s a bit of an augmented version. It almost feels like it`s entitled erotic mania.

PINSKY: Grandiose stalk (ph) and maybe psychotic stalk.

COHEN: Almost psychotic. We`ll know more once investigators put together more pieces and they begin speaking with friends and family members of this

particular person, but my initial assessment is that this guy went across state lines, believes that he has the right to speak with Donald Trump to

the point where he can put himself, as well as the officers who were trying to successfully pull him off the window, their lives at risk also.

It feels like a conventional stalking case with a bit of a -- a little bit more ego if you will.

PINSKY: And Thema, I completely agree with Aaron. However, in situation like this with leader, you never know how far this is gonna go. In other

words, if this is a psychotic stalking, he might have intended to kill him.

THEMA DAVIS, PSYCHOLOGIST: Absolutely. It`s not clear what he really wanted, and even when they continue to interview him, and he doesn`t share

what his plan was, you can`t really be sure just because he said I just wanted to meet him. And so I think the grandiose piece, the psychotic piece

is there, but also the flat affect. In the video, he seems very disconnected.

PINSKY: Yes. And so again, it`s -- it`s stalking, possibly psychotic stalking, definitely erotic mania like Aaron is saying, and possibly

something more sinister on foot. Now, he has been charged with reckless endangerment and criminal trespass. Yodit, is that the appropriate charge?

YODIT TEWOLDE, ATTORNEY: I think so in this case. Obviously, the reckless endangerment, he put the lives of these officers who squandered away hours

trying to get this -- this guy to get off the building. Not to mention the -- the pedestrians that were below dropping the laptop and water bottles

could have fallen on pedestrians as well and of course the criminal trespass on the private property.

But I`m just glad that his actions aren`t going without punishment. This was just a waste of resources. I mean, there were officers that could have

been tending to real crimes that are happening in the city and -- and focusing on real victims of those crimes who need help. So this was just a

complete waste of time for a stupid stunt.

PINSKY: And to that point, Yodit`s point, Anahita, why treat him like a jumper? Why not just let him climb to the top and then grab him at the top

when he gets up there.

ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, ATTORNEY OF COUNSEL TO THE COCHRAN FIRM: They couldn`t risk it.

PINSKY: Well, but listen, my question is, what obligation do they have to save his life? This guy is putting his own -- and is it all because of

legal liability?

SEDAGHATFAR: There would be legal liability, believe it or not. If he got injured , arguably, he would have a claim against the city and the police

department, Dr. Drew. And I agree with you, Yodit.

I think that these are felonies, he should be punished for this, and he absolutely need the psychological evaluation because I think it`s clear

that he`s mentally ill. If you just watch him on that tape, I think that`s -- that`s evidence right there.

But that does not mean that this is gonna be a not guilty by reason of insanity case for the simple fact there was so much preparation that went

into this. I mean, he drove from a different state. He got a hotel room. He bought equipment. He posted this video.

And so I think while they will find that he has a mental illness, I do not think that they`ll claim that he was not guilty by reason of insanity.

PINSKY: Again, let`s put a fine point on the issue of criminal insanity, which is that you have to be completely out of it, you have to not even

know where you are, what you`re doing, you don`t know right or wrong.

SEDAGHATFAR: In that moment.

PINSKY: In that moment. I understand that.

SEDAGHATFAR: Absolutely.

PINSKY: Okay, next up, Trump responds to all this. Hear what the candidate says about Virginia Steve suction cup man. And later, a grandmother killed

in a police training incident. We will tell you about the shooter`s past. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(START VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Large crowd all around the Trump tower at this point barricade -- set out -- the largest crowd that I`ve ever seen around Trump

tower as people just are fixated on this man as he continues to get higher and higher on Trump tower.

There was a hostage negotiation team talking to this man who has been identified by sources as Steven Regota (ph). He`s from Virginia.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got him right now. Looks like they are grabbing him. Let`s just watch. Wow. Well, there you go. All right. He`s inside.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Steve from Virginia told police he wanted to climb the 64-story high-rise. He was stopped at the 21st floor. Back with Anahita, Yodit,

Thema, Aaron, and Brynn.

Steve`s motive was to get Donald Trump`s attention, to talk to him about something, he had some magical thing only he knew about. Trump tweeted

today, quote, great job today by the NYPD in protecting the people and saving the climber.

Brynn, this guy has been sort of preoccupied with politics for a while. Is that accurate?

GINGRAS: Yeah, it is. Again, let`s remind the viewers that his name is Steven Regota (ph), but he just changed his name from Michael Ryan. He

graduated from high school. He`s 19. So, about a year ago. And that`s how everybody back home knew him was Michael Ryan.

We`ve been talking to friends and family and learning that he was involved in politics. He actually was very conservative. He interned at the Fairfax

County Republican Committee, so local politics.

Friends say that he was interested in the military. They said he was not super talkative, but he also did cross country, so wide range of interests

there for Regota (ph).

But I actually have a family friend who knew him in high school, took a few classes with him, and she said that she`s been monitoring Facebook all day

and everybody is saying the same thing that they didn`t think this guy would actually go to such a drastic demonstration.

PINSKY: Which suggests to me, Thema, that there may have been some decompensation, that he must have progressed, 19, 18 to 22, is that window

when psychiatric pathology emerges. So to me, it is starting again, put together, come together like we were discussing in the last block.

DAVIS: Absolutely. It is clear he didn`t really think through what was gonna happen because of the fact that he said, I want my video to go viral,

but now that he has his audience, he is refusing to speak. So I think he hadn`t really thought it through.

PINSKY: According to a 2014 incident report, the family called police to report their son had ran away from home, later found safe, so there might

have been something going on as recently as 2014.

Now, as this drama began to unfold, CNN was interviewing Trump supporter, Carl Higbie, who is a former navy seal. Interesting to listen to his

comments.

(START VIDEO)

CARL HIGBIE, FORMER NAVY SEAL: This is something that as a secret service agent, they`re looking at this, is this a diversion? Are they saying, was

this guy could be doing this so someone sneaks in somewhere?

These are all angles they have to cover. Was this guy trying to get into the campaign headquarters? Was this guy trying to plant a device? These are

all questions the secret service now has to waste resources trying to figure out.

He`s climbing a building. It`s clear that he doesn`t have any sense. Shoot with a tranquilizer, let him fall on the bouncy pad below, and take him

into custody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Aaron, shoot him with tranquilizer. Is that the proper way to deal with a case like this? The attorneys are laughing, but they`re sharpening

their claws while they`re laughing.

COHEN: You know, it`s through and through, it`s dangerous situation. You got a kid whose -- whose literally a case of teenager. Climbing the side of

building, got a suction cups, like again as you said, didn`t really think it through, get to the top of the building to have a conversation with

Trump.

At the end of the day, you know, those officers had to risk themselves and risk the life of this suction cup Steven. You`ll notice that when they

reached out the window to grab him, he`s actually resisting. I`m not sure if he`s resisting because he`s in fear of losing his balance or because

he`s so delusional that he just doesn`t want to be taken, so there`s...

PINSKY: Delusional.

COHEN: ... yeah, there`s risk involved there. So as far as taking him, I think, NYP, ESU, the Emergency Services Unit put together a quick plan,

remove panels of glass and, probably would say, look, we have to grab him as quick as possible with as much force as possible in order to save his

life. And so I do think it`s a waste of resources.

But at the end of the day, you don`t know if he`s carrying a weapon, you don`t know if this is a diversion. Officers will put this together, but

it`s dangerous stuff. These guys really came out on top and I think they did an excellent job.

PINKSY: Anahita, just because he has mental illness doesn`t mean we should be hitting him with a tranquilizer.

SEDAGHATFAR: That`s right.

PINKSY: And not treating his depression as opposed to whatever delusional process was going on, and he wanted to jump off the building, we would be

treating it very seriously as well.

SEDAGHATFAR: That`s right. They still have to treat him in a certain way. They can`t purposely try to injure him because like you said, they would

then be facing lawsuits.

But my question, and maybe Aaron can help shed light on this was, what was going on with Donald Trump`s security? I mean, this was his residence, this

is where his headquarter was.

How in the world that this man even get that close to the building with all these equipment without anyone noticing or stopping him? I`m thinking that

this is a pretty scary situation. That he got away with it.

COHEN: It just depends on -- excellent question. It just depends on where his sterile protection begins. I don`t know if that plaza is in fact where

he is based now throughout this election campaign. He could be already working out of or has been working out of a secondary location.

So it may just be Trump tower`s private security. Look, New York security is not perfect. You`re certainly not anticipating some knuckle head

climbing up the side of the building.

So I`m gonna assume that Trump probably wasn`t sterile in that building as a campaign headquarter, otherwise his secret service would have been on him

a lot quicker. But having said that...

SEDAGHATFAR: I heard it was. I heard that it was the campaign headquarters and that`s where Donald Trump lives.

PINSKY: It is -- it is, Anahita, but it`s a very public space. I mean, the Trump tower, and -- Brynn, you can help me with this. You -- you got the

front of the building right on the sidewalk. I mean, people might have thought it was a screw ball showing off before they knew it, he kept going,

and then he was out of reach. Brynn?

GINGRAS: Yes. Definitely. There`s an atrium also where they put one of those inflatable devices. I mean, that`s open to the public as well. It is

a very open space, and you have to remember, the blocks around it are open. So NYPD had to act quickly once he did start climbing to really shut off

that entire area.

You just saw those pictures of the crowds that were gathering. So, yeah, it`s a big, big wide area that they definitely had to secure very quickly.

And the questions about the secret service, well, those are certainly ones that are being asked at this point.

PINSKY: Aaron, copycats -- but wait, who is talking? Yodit -- Thema, go ahead.

DAVIS: Yes. I just wanted to say that I think it`s important to recognize that he received more leeway I think as a result of his race and identity

that if it was a black or brown person or someone who was visibly Muslim climbing the wall, if it was someone who had on a baseball hat climbing the

wall, then I think people would have responded differently.

PINSKY: You`ve opened up another chapter that I don`t have time to climb through right now, but it`s an interesting point.

Next, there is more to the shooting of a 73-year-old woman by a police officer. We will tell you what we have learned about the officer`s past.

And later, a baby dies after she was left in a hot car. Her grieving father is about to stand trial. Why? Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(START VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mary Knowlton had volunteered to participate in a fake police emergency in her coastal Florida community when she was struck by a

real bullet in what police are calling a tragic accident.

The simulation was part of the citizens` police academy night hosted by the Punta Gorda Police Department during the first role play scenario of the

night. Knowlton teamed up with another volunteer and officer Lee Coel for a shoot, don`t shoot role play.

It`s an exercise these officers have led many times before, even using the same revolvers during other simulations, but that revolver which is usually

loaded with blanks held live ammunition. The officer fired at least one round at the retired librarian as nearly three dozen other volunteers

looked on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: The officer who fired that fatal and tragic shot is on administrative leave while state agency investigates. CNN correspondent

Victor Blackwell is following the story, he is on the phone. Now, Victor, there is dispute, I understand, over how many shots were fired?

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, there is, Dr. Drew. The chief, Tom Lewis, when he initially reported and discussed this shooting late

Tuesday, he said that there was one shot, one live round fired and that was, of course, the fatal shot, but there was a news photographer who was

there, works for the local paper, who says that several shots were fired in the direction of Mary Knowlton, the 73-year-old retired librarian.

Now, the question then becomes was there just one live round and the others were blanks, or were they all live rounds and only one shot made contact

with Mary Knowlton? That`s part of the investigation. We`ve not yet gotten that information from the department.

PINSKY: Victor, am I correct, the officer involved here was also involved in another incident that led to a lawsuit?

BLACKWELL: Yeah. Another incident just last year with this department. This was an occasion in October when this officer who was also the K-9 handler

allowed his K-9 to mull a man who was on a bike and this man suffered some serious injuries.

It was caught on dash-cam video, pretty high profile in Florida, but the chief said that he had brought in an independent expert to be part of this

internal investigation, and found that the use of the K-9 did not violate the department policy.

However, this lawsuit is still ongoing against the city of Punta Gorda. But let me add one other thing, in just the last few hours, we`ve learned more

about previous employment with another department, the Miramar Police Department in Miami-Dade County, and there were two internal affairs

investigations there involving Officer Coel.

In one occasion, they found that he violated department policy when he drove above 100 miles an hour with a suspect in the cruiser, but also

another violation they found that was sustained in which he dragged a suspect out of the back of a cruiser, who was not combative at the time, by

his ankles, and they found that to be excessive use of force.

PINSKY: We are back. Thank you, Victor. I`m back with Anahita, Yodit, Thema, and joining us via Skype, Randy Sutton, retired lieutenant with Las

Vegas Metropolitan Police Department. Randy, what Victor is saying, does that have any bearing on this tragedy?

RANDY SUTTON, LAS VEGAS METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPARTMENT (RET): Well, it`s gonna have a bearing when it comes out with a civil suit, there`s no doubt

about that. You know, it`s interesting, I did a little research about -- about Florida.

That states that it only requires, believe it or not, police officers to qualify with their firearms once every two years. Now, this is a basic

training exercise here. This is done all over the country with something similar, but using live firearms is -- is pretty unusual in a situation

like this, in a civilian academy.

But any time that you use a firearm, a real firearm, there are checks and balances that are supposed to happen very routinely, and that is that you

show that weapon, and you show that ammunition to the other officers that are involved in the training exercise.

So there`s a lot of issues here. There are some serious problems, and mostly my heart goes out and grieves for that woman and her family.

PINSKY: Now, Yodit, we`re hearing here, and I saw you shaking your head that you see the liability here, but this is not ill-intent, this is tragic

sort of negligence of sorts.

TEWOLDE: No, it`s absolutely gross negligence, and if family has not already lawyered up, I suggest that they do so that they can sue this

police department because they are at fault.

And what`s so sad is that I`m actually -- I commend the department for wanting to put on such a program that would engage the community and to

teach them and educate them about what it is that they do on a daily basis.

But this was supposed to be a community safety workshop, and it was anything but safe, and so anybody should be super nervous to pull the

trigger of a gun, even if it is unloaded, so I don`t understand why no one checked the chamber of these guns to make sure that they weren`t loaded.

PINSKY: Well, that`s Randy`s point.

TEWOLDE: It doesn`t make any sense and this can be avoided.

PINSKY: That`s Randy`s point. There should have been checks and double checks. But, Anahita, let`s say you`re defending the officer. I mean,

there`s a lot to defend here too.

SEDAGHATFAR: Well, there`s a lot to defend. You have to look at it from two perspectives, there`s civil liability and criminal liability, and I think

clearly, this is criminal negligence.

PINSKY: Criminal negligence?

SEDAGHATFAR: Criminal negligence because there`s no way that should have happened.

PINSKY: Who? Who is gonna be held responsible?

SEDAGHATFAR: And that`s the issue. So we know he`s likely gonna be responsible for that, and then the issue is the department going to be

liable? And if they had some knowledge or there`s some evidence that the department knew that he was unfit, that he was reckless, that he was

dangerous as we`re seeing, they did have at least some knowledge about his past, then they too, can be held liable for this officer`s actions.

PINSKY: Hold on. Randy, she wants to go for a criminal negligence. It seems a little aggressive to me. And by the way, all I`m hearing is that he may

not have been -- what police officer has a completely perfect record?

SUTTON: Well, not -- well, there`s plenty of police officers that have perfect records, but -- but what his past is going to come up, and it is

going to be germane.

However, what we`re talking about here is -- is not something he did purposefully. You know, if he was doing an excessive force on this woman

and it turned out, that would be, of course, very key to what his past was.

PINSKY: Let me tell you something.

(CROSSTALK)

Let me --

SUTTON: This is -- this is negligence, but this is civil liability.

PINSKY: Okay. Hold on.

SUTTON: This is not criminal.

PINSKY: Let me tell you some of the past. Officer Coel resigned from another police department in 2013. The Florida Department Law Enforcement

says he failed satisfactorily complete an agency field training program. That, to me, does not say anything specific, Randy.

SEDAGHATFAR: Well, I think...

PINSKY: Hold on.

SUTTON: That`s very important. That`s very important because that really needs...

SEDAGHATFAR: Absolutely.

SUTTON: Going -- when you get failed out of field training, that can be for a a myriad of reasons. That can include being reckless, that can include

that your officer safety is not good. There`s a whole bunch of stuff there. And it`s very, very well-documented why you don`t get through field

training. So that`s going to be critical when they look at this.

SEDAGHATFAR: That`s right.

PINSKY: Thema, you`re trying to say something. Go ahead.

DAVIS: Yes. I read that he pulled over a cyclist because he was having a complaint against someone riding on a bike. The person complied, and then

according to the report, he allowed his dog to attack and hold on to the person.

PINSKY: Yeah, that`s what Victor was telling us.

SUTTON: Different circumstances.

PINSKY: Well, Victor was telling us about that, and that`s what got people a little bit concerned. Thema, I understand that.

DAVIS: Yeah.

SUTTON: It was not a field training incident.

PINSKY: No, I understand. That`s why we need somebody like you to help us understand. You know, that`s what I was saying, I mean, you know, I would

imagine that every officer or may officers have some little something that you could look at, go, oh, there`s the smoking gun, but this guy had sort

of a little bit of a pattern here, and you`re saying that failing field officer training is a particularly important threshold, correct?

SUTTON: Well, yeah. This is going to be very critical because we don`t know what he failed field training for.

PINSKY: All right.

SUTTON: And the way the system works is you are -- you are watched by a field training officer, and you are...

PINSKY: Got it.

SUTTON: ... graded every single day, and depending on if your conduct doesn`t -- doesn`t function properly or if you can`t operate safely, those

are both reasons for not...

PINSKY: Next up. Next up. I have an attorney who says he had warned the police chief that something bad was going to happen. He will join me. And

later, another baby died after being left in a hot car by her father, but the mother wants the case to go away. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(START VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A retired librarian volunteers for a police program as a sign of solidarity with the department and is ultimately killed by a one of

the police officers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were unaware that any live ammunition for this particular weapon existed. We believe that the particular caliber of the

weapon used, that there were only blank rounds available to the officer.

STEVE KNOWLTON, MARY KNOWLTON`S SON: I know this guy that did this is probably can`t live in his own skin right now, but I, you know, I want him

to know that we know, I`m sure he didn`t intend on this happening, and we forgive him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: That man, lost his mother, Mary Knowlton, when she was shot during a police drill. The officer`s weapon should have been loaded with blanks,

but Mary was hit with live ammunition, and eventually died of her wounds.

I`m back with Anahita, Yodit, Thema, and Randy. Joining me on the phone is Scott Weinberg. He is an attorney for a man who was arrested by officer

Coel. This is the officer that -- that shot this particular weapon. This attorney claims his client was mauled by officer Coel`s police dog during

the arrest. Mr. Weinberg, thank you for joining us.

SCOTT WEINBERG, ATTORNEY: Thanks for having me, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: You actually warned the police chief about officer Coel. Tell me about that.

WEINBERG: That`s correct. About early in June, I got a copy of the video that showed officer Coel`s dog brutally attacking my client for about a

minute and 47 seconds. I had a meeting with the chief. I told the chief that I`ve had prior problems with this officer.

I informed him that this officer is not fit to be a police officer. He`s dangerous. He`s going to kill somebody. Unfortunately, two months later, we

are where we are today.

PINSKY: What makes you think he`s dangerous. We are looking at that footage now, it`s pretty -- pretty traumatic.

WEINBERG: Well, if you watch the footage, the first thing that officer Coel says to my client when he tries to stop him for the only violation of not

having a light on the bicycle, he says, stop, or I`ll sick the dog on you.

Now, that shows his intent from the beginning of the traffic stop. He just wanted to have his dog bite somebody, and if you watch the video, my client

is compliant, and the dog chews on him for a minute and 47 seconds.

Frankly, this was not the first time officer Coel acted aggressively on a case. I got numerous others of these cases dismissed, once I showed the

state`s attorney the video about how aggressive he acts and how he violated other people`s rights.

PINSKY: Let me try to remember -- you`re not making the case that he intentionally shot Mrs. Knowlton. I mean, this seems like a terrible

tragedy.

WEINBERG: This is a terrible tragedy. It was an avoidable tragedy. I do not know the facts of what happened with the Ms. Knowlton case. I do know that

if this officer would have been fired when I asked the police chief to fire him, for the actions of him and his dog, this wouldn`t have happened.

PINSKY: And to be fair, I`m looking at a performance evaluation, of course, CNN cannot confirm or refute any of the allegations making, but I have a

performance allegation right here from Punta Gorda Police Department where he gets exceptional in most areas, and, you know, a couple areas at it`s

average, but certainly nothing that was in any way a concern to the department.

WEINBERG: Well, Dr. Drew, if you look at the beginning of officer Coel`s career, he was asked to resign by the Miramar Police Department, and then

he was hired by the Punta Gorda Police Department.

If you look at his case clears rate, it`s pretty abysmal. I think the stat I found was that 37 percent of his cases had been dismissed by the state`s

attorney`s office.

The fact that a police officer gets good ratings does not really hold water with me. We`ve seen it across the country where there are great police

officers, but unfortunately, too many bad police officers are protected -- protected by those evaluation reports and internal investigations.

PINSKY: All right. Thank you, thank you for your report here. Again, we cannot confirm or deny any of the allegations made there, but, Randy, help

me interpret what was Mr. Weinberg was saying, is it meaningful?

SUTTON: Well, not in this case, it`s not. One thing has nothing to do with the other.

PINSKY: Okay. Hold on. Hold on. Yodit, let`s see what the attorneys say because they are the ones ultimately gonna be deciding this. Yodit, yes or

no? Something to do with the case?

TEWOLDE: The -- with the -- what?

PINSKY: With what Weinberg was saying, does that strengthen or diminish your case?

TEWOLDE: No. It definitely -- it will definitely strengthen against the officer.

PINSKY: Okay. Hold on. Hold on. Anahita, you were going for criminal negligence. You want everyone in jail. I thought you were a defense lawyer.

Doesn`t any of this in any -- how does any of this really figure into an accident?

SEDAGHATFAR: Well, that`s the thing. There`s two issues, criminal liability and civil liability, and I can tell you that evidence of that police

videotape with the dog, that`s going to come in in a civil lawsuit to show that this department...

PINSKY: Civil. I get it. Civil. But you were going for criminal negligence.

SEDAGHATFAR: Because I definitely think mistakes are mistakes, but there`s a certain point in time when your actions become so reckless that it rises

to the level of criminality.

PINSKY: All right.

SEDAGHATFAR: I`m not saying it was intentional. I don`t believe he tried to kill her, but it was reckless.

PINSKY: Yodit, agree or not?

TEWOLDE: I agree.

PINSKY: Okay.

TEWOLDE: I don`t think he`s gonna be charged with a criminal offense, though. That`s just my opinion.

PINSKY: Okay. All right. Civil is kind of easy, but the criminal -- you`re really sort of you -- Thema, when accidents become -- become criminal

issues. I mean, you know, I understand if for some incredibly reckless past, which I -- I -- maybe I`m just wrong here. Thema, what do you say?

DAVIS: Well, I think one of the strange things is and what I read, the woman, Mary, was playing the part of an officer, and so it`s not even that

she was pretending to be a criminal, and so he was shooting the criminal, and it was supposed to be a blank and it was not a blank.

So in this scenario, she was not even playing a criminal, then that`s another piece about why was he shooting anyway.

SEDAGHATFAR: Why were they using real guns? That`s the bigger issue here in terms of negligence.

PINSKY: Okay. Agree.

SEDAGHATFAR: Never should have taken the chance. Too risky.

PINSKY: Randy, why? Randy, why would they do that?

SUTTON: I don`t know. I can`t tell you that. Usually they use -- they use simulation guns. They`re weapons that -- that they shoot out a little paint

ball generally speaking.

PINSKY: Right.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s right.

SUTTON: Even if they were actually shooting blanks, that`s dangerous.

PINSKY: Right.

SEDAGHATFAR: That`s dangerous. They are not going to do this ever again, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: That`s for sure. I guarantee you.

SEDAGHATFAR: I guarantee you they will not be using little gun.

PINSKY: It`s going to be a little gun with a flag that comes out. That`s it, guys. Thank you. Next, a black father has been prosecuted in the hot

car death of his daughter while a white mother faces no charge in an awfully similar case. Why is that? We`ll get into it. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(START VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shanice Caradine says while it breaks her heart that her boyfriend, Joshua Blunt, left their eight month old in a hot car while

he was working back in May, she believes it was a mistake.

SHANICE CARADINE, MOTHER OF BABY: It was just a tragic accident, and it could happen to anybody. I already said that it would never happen to me,

but it can happen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Blunt is now facing up to 20 years for manslaughter charges, but Caradine says it wouldn`t do any good if he just sit behind

bars.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Joshua Blunt is accused of having left his eight month old daughter in a hot car. He says her death was accidental. Now his girlfriend is

asking the charges against him just be dropped.

Back with Anahita, Yodit, and Thema. Joining me by phone, I have Carlos Moore, Joshua`s attorney. Thank you for joining us, Mr. Moore.

CARLOS MOORE, JOSHUA BLUNT`S ATTORNEY: Thanks for having me, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Now, Carlos, your client says he forgot to drop the baby off at the grandmother`s home. What happened that day?

MOORE: This was a Thursday, May 19th, this was his normal day off, his boss asked him to come into work, he volunteered to go to work on his day off,

he got there about 9:00 a.m., and he left at 11:00 a.m. to pick up his girlfriend, and take other work at KFC, and he intended to drop the baby

off at the grandmother`s house.

However, he immediately went back to work, not knowing that he failed to drop the baby off. When he clocked out at 3:00, he was going to take a

coworker home, and the coworker found the baby in the backseat, and he Mr. Blunt did not believe that he had left the baby in the car.

PINSKY: Clearly, we see the devastation in the picture. Now, you`re alleging that race played a role in these charges. Tell us what do you mean

by that.

MOORE: Yes. Eight days prior to Mr. Blunt`s unfortunate situation with his child, there was a white female in another part of Mississippi about 90

miles south, she left her two year old in the car and forgot to take the child to the day care, and she was never arrested or charged, and it was

presented to the grand jury today, and there was a note revealing she was not invited.

So, similar circumstances, but drastically different results. Only thing different is race.

PINSKY: All right. If you hold on a second, Mr. Moore. Yodit, he has a point here, does he not?

TEWOLDE: Absolutely. I don`t doubt that this was an accident. However, it`s hard to make a distinguishment between these two cases when you`re dealing

with two different counties.

When you are dealing with two different counties, you`re dealing with two different DAs, and that means a different demographic. You`re dealing with

probably a different grand jury process.

PINSKY: Wait a minute. So, we allow gender and racism based on just the locality?

TEWOLDE: No, no, no, not at all. I`m saying that had these two situations occurred in the same county and were...

PINSKY: I hear what you`re said. I hear what you`re saying but why should we tolerate, you know, what looks -- I mean, we don`t know these two cases.

We don`t know the details. But Anahita, you know what I`m getting at here.

SEDAGHATFAR: I know what you`re getting at.

PINSKY: I mean, why should we tolerate that?

SEDAGHATFAR: I agree with you. I agree that every case turns on it`s own facts. I get that. But the reality is we can`t deny that race and social

economic status do play a role in our criminal justice system.

And the reality is, African-Americans are treated harsher than whites when it comes to penalties for similar crimes. We know wealthier people, they

can hire better defense attorneys, better experts.

They can lodge better defenses. That`s just the reality. Now, I`m not saying that`s necessarily what happened here but we can`t discount those

two factors, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Yodit. I get it. I get the similar case. But Yodit, you`re making the case that because it was a different group of people with a different

set of biases looking at the case, those biases came to bear in one situation and not in the other, or maybe in both cases they came to bear.

TEWOLDE: No, Dr. Drew. I know -- I know for some formal as I sit every day how race does play a huge role in the criminal justice system. I`m not

saying that`s not the case. However, what I am saying is that we are dealing with two different DAs and two different counties. And I`m not

saying that it`s right in one county and wrong in the other.

However, If this was happening in the same county, and they were both presented to a grand jury, and one grand jury in that end and the other one

did it on similar fact, then I`d say, oh, my God, what`s going on here?

PINSKY: I see. More egregious. I get it. More egregious. Thema, and you say gender may be a big part of this as well. They`re harsher on the dad than

the mom?

DAVIS: I think so. We`ve seen multiple cases of moms forgetting and leaving their children tragically in vehicles and people recognizing that the

tragedy is penalty enough. They are having to deal with that loss.

But when we think about not only him being African-American but male, that the identity that people think of when they think of African-American male

is not usually father, it`s not usually loving, caring, paternal person. They think criminal or dangerous. And so I think that plays a part.

PINSKY: Look at this poor man. I mean, were looking at his face.

DAVIS: It`s terrible.

PINSKY: Yeah, it`s terrible. It`s awful. We`ll keep this going. We`ll gonna talk more about it after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(START VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They told the mother you didn`t drop her off this morning and the mother immediately became distraught and ran out to her car

and -- and realized that the two year old was still in the car.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Instead of dropping off her daughter, the mom went straight to work, leaving the two year old for hours in the backseat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s terrible. I think it`s every parent`s worst fear because, you know, everybody can forget.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Just a week after that toddler passed away, an eight month old was left in a hot car under similar circumstances in a nearby town. That baby`s

father, Joshua Blunt, a black man will stand trial for manslaughter.

Back with Anahita, Yodit, and Thema. On the phone, I have the attorney for Mr. Blunt, Carlos Moore. Carlos, you heard that conversation we just had.

The girlfriend does not want them to be charged. Are you gaining any sympathy there in the town?

MOORE: Yes, the town is very much sympathetic to Mr. Blunt`s plight. They feel that he should not have been charged. It was a tragic accident. And if

this was not about race, but about justice, the district attorney would immediately drop the charges pursuant to the mother`s request.

PINSKY: Is that a possibility or you`ll have to go through this terrible ordeal?

MOORE: It is a possibility. It was a possibility because that`s what I was led to believe. Now that she signed an affidavit, he said he is still going

to take the case to trial, so we`ll have to try the case.

PINSKY: Anahita, I know you`ve been blood thirsty today. But even you, even you...

SEDAGHATFAR: Not so.

PINSKY: Well, you wanted somebody to get criminal negligence.

SEDAGHATFAR: Not him though.

PINSKY: But this is negligence too. It`s not negligence that, you know, you have to have any kind of recklessness to commit.

SEDAGHATFAR: I agree with you on that. I agree with the fact that prosecutors have discretion. Just because they can criminally charge

someone, doesn`t mean that they should.

Part of that should be taking into account the wishes of the victim. The mother of this child has made it clear that she believes this was an

accident and she does not want the baby`s father charged with a crime. I think that should be given weight in this case.

PINSKY: Yodit, I suppose there`s a flip side to this, which is that every time a parent does something, I don`t know, problematic, they can always

say, oops, it was an accident. Is that a possibility that we could go too far down that, as you guys love to say...

SEDAGHATFAR: Slipper slope.

PINSKY: Slippery slope?

TEWOLDE: No. I - I hate that phrase, by the way, but no.

PINSKY: Me too.

TEWOLDE: I totally agree. I was thinking about that just today about how this sort of gives an avenue to parents who want to abandon their

responsibilities as parents and -- and maybe take it that route because we call them accidental.

But again, I do agree with Anahita that the prosecutor should actually put more weight onto what the family wants and look at this as a bigger picture

instead of a conviction rate. I think that`s what they`re doing. They`re being unreasonable.

PINSKY: And Thema, from a mental health perspective, I mean, it seems cruel to pile onto this guy, does it not?

DAVIS: Absolutely. I think this family is going to need so much support from the community and from everybody because there is so much pain there

and the injustice.

PINSKY: Injustice, right. I think Thema is using the right word, Anahita. Isn`t this supposed to be about justice and not about the ego of a DA?

SEDAGHATFAR: Yes, that`s right, and justice. When you have two similar cases, two similar facts, but they are being treated differently, you

really have to question is that justice? Is that how our system is supposed to work?

PINSKY: Thema, last thoughts. Is there such -- do we have a problem with DAs overreaching?

DAVIS: I think we do have a problem. It has to be a matter of larger systemic change. Because sometimes we just think about the individual, but

across the board when we see people making decisions that aren`t fair, we really have to do more structural changes.

PINSKY: All right. Thank you, panel. I appreciate that. Thank you all for watching the show. Please do tell a friend. We appreciate you joining us

here Monday through Thursday. We`ll see you next time. Nancy grace, our friend, Nancy Grace, is up next.

END