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Dr. Drew

13-Year-Old Hangs Himself After Being Tormented; Man Accused of Impersonation a Physician May Pursue Insanity Defense; Mother Furious with Police after Being Charged with Child Endangerment

Aired August 16, 2016 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DREW PINSKY, DR. DREW ON CALL HOST: I gave up. Those words from a 13-year- old boy who hanged himself with a belt in his family`s attic. Daniel Fitzpatrick says his son, Danny, was tormented to death. Watch this from

Facebook.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

DANIEL FITZGERALD, FATHER OF THE BOY: To the parents of the boys that tormented my son, all I have to say is I hope you never, never have to feel

what my -- my family is going through right now. You get to hold your children every night and day for the rest of your lives and their natural

lives.

I don`t get that anymore. Your little monsters took that from me and my wife and his sisters. I hope the memory of what you`ve done to my son is

burned in your brain for the rest of your life and you suffer as much as he has suffered.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Joining me, Areva Martin, attorney, Eric Guster, civil rights attorney, Michele Borba, psychologist, bully expert, author of the book

"Unselfie," and Pat Lalama, managing editor, Crime Watch Daily. Pat, this little boy Danny, this 13-year-old, left behind a letter. What do we know

about it?

PAT LALAMA, MANAGING EDITOR, CRIME WATCH DAILY: You know, Dr. Drew, I don`t know if you can see this picture, but this is the one I keep clutching

today. Just the most beautiful face you can imagine. Two weeks short of his 14th birthday. The torment he must have been suffering with.

Now, here`s the thing. The letter that he wrote was written actually in early July. So we refer to it as a suicide note, but the fact of the matter

is he actually took his own life last Thursday. But here`s the deal.

He said the teachers didn`t help him. It was five guys who were relentless, wouldn`t stay off of him. Even got into physical altercation with one of

them. It was only one teacher, he claims, that would help him.

The school claims, I must say, that it gave him three counseling sessions and that by law they had to go to the family to see if they could do more.

They claim the family refused. The family is sticking by its guns that it was all about the school and that nobody did anything.

PINSKY: Michele, you`ve seen this letter. You have a reaction to it?

MICHELE BORBA, BULLYING EXPERT, PSYCHOLOGIST: Oh it`s just again -- once again your heart just absolutely bleeds. But there`s a couple of points

that will just standout that are so right on mark in terms of what bullying is.

He first of all said that nobody stuck up for him, nobody listened. Then one of the big reasons, Dr. Drew, that our kids don`t come to us and tell

is because they say nobody listened.

A second one is they`re very fearful of retaliation, that somebody is going to make it only worse and that bully`s going to continue to keep coming

back to me, or they`re so humiliated.

Finally, they also say that the advice that we`re telling them doesn`t work. Bullying is always a pattern. It`s always repeated. And everything

that this child endured, the cold-blooded cruelty, intentionally is exactly what is this case study of horror.

PINSKY: Wait, Michele. You`re saying that the advice that parents are giving kids never work? So, there`s something we should know here?

BORBA: Yes. Because what we do -- a couple of things -- these are based on focus groups with hundreds of kids that I bet for it. The first of all,

they say, we tell them too often, don`t worry, it will get better. And it never does because bullying is almost a repeated pattern. Or go tell them.

Just tell them to stop. And that doesn`t work either.

And so what happens is our kids need safety nets. They needed at least one adult who`s gonna stick out for them. And if everything that you can do as

a parent right now starting back to school, a couple of things going to your school website.

Fifty states have signed anti-bullying policies. It`s required that your school has some kind of policy in place. Does your school have a policy?

And is there a reporting box? Some kind of a measure where if you are suspecting that bullying has happened and you know what the definition is,

you, your child or his peers can at least report it, so somebody is looking out for your kid.

PINSKY: Now, Pat, as always when there`s a young suicide, the case is complicated. The bullying seems to be the inciting influence but there`s

something also that was going on with the parent. Tell us about that.

LALAMA: Well, Dr. Drew, you know, I think to myself as I was reading all of this information about the bully and my feeling and I don`t know all the

facts but my feeling is a lot of times bullies pick on kids who already have problems...

PINSKY: Yes.

LALAMA: ... Well, if you believe "The Washington Post," brand new information. There was, in fact, a child services investigation.

Apparently, allegedly, the mother had a drinking problem and listen to some of these comments according to the report and according to "The Washington

Post."

Danny said mom being drunk affects him in everything and makes him angry. Student can`t remember a time when mom was not drunk. He denies physical

abuse but says that his sister, Kristen, had to hide him in an attic when his mom is drunk.

In spite of this report, the letter also states that child protective services found, quote, no credible evidence to believe that the children

had been abused or maltreated, but certainly chronic alcoholism if in fact it`s true plays a horrific role in a child`s life.

PINSKY: Now, families that have alcoholism are very common in this country. And the 13-year-old products in those families don`t typically kill

themselves. Areva, my bigger question is why did the social services fail to help this family?

AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY: Well, that`s one question, Dr. Drew. And also what happened with respect to the school. We`re hearing the school say that

their hands were tied. That they couldn`t do anything else. That it was on the parents to do something. That`s very disturbing to me as an attorney

that represents families in very similar situations. Families whose kids have been bullied.

I know first hand that schools can do a lot more than what we`re hearing this school actually did. The school`s responsibility isn`t just to the kid

that is being bullied, but it`s also those kids who are doing the bullying. Oftentimes those kids also have very severe emotional and behavior problems

that the school also has to address.

PINSKY: And -- and Areva, it`s not just the bully and the bullied. There`s the bystanders. There`s the kids that address the bully. There`s kids that

support the bullied. There`s five different potential relationships that these kids should -- should have been learning about from the school. Eric,

what do you think ought to be done here?

ERIC GUSTER, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: We have to talk about what the parents did or did not do and what they knew. Because it`s going to come down to

documentation. It`s very important for us as adults to come to the aid of children. Children can`t handle these problems by themselves. They can`t

battle several bullies by themselves.

It`s going to take parents, teachers, and the parents of the other children who were doing the bullying to come in and get all of them help, make sure

that each of them understands what bullying is, that is wrong, and we have to put our foot down to make sure things like this don`t happen again.

PINSKY: What`s the matter, Pat?

LALAMA: Well, you know, I feel in a way that all these points are great that your guests are making, but it seems to me we put so much pressure on

schools to solve family issues because I do think a lot of this starts in the home. And even if it doesn`t start in the home, everyone expects the

school to solve the problem.

I raised two stepsons. I know what some of this can be like. And it seems to me that schools also feel will be liable in some way if they dare to be

aggressive against these kids. So their hands are tied. What are they supposed to do?

MARTIN: Well, they`re supposed to do a whole lot, and I disagree with that, Pat. We`re not asking the school to handle the problems at home. We`re

asking the school to keep keep the kid safe while he`s at school. Apparently, these bullying was happening in the school`s campus. That`s the

responsibility of the school.

PINSKY: Next up, more of the warning for bullies from Danny`s grieving father. The attorney for the family is here to talk to us. And later, a

filthy house, a stuffed animal, and a 6-year-old who told police he was hungry have parents in hot water with the law. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(START VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In just 14 days, Danny Fitzpatrick would have been celebrating his 14th birthday.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I miss my son so much. It breaks my heart that it had to come down to this. He was a good person.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On Thursday, Danny`s life came to a tragic end when his sister discovered him hanging by a belt in the family`s Staten Island

attic. Police later discovered a note where Danny had written three haunting words, I gave up.

His heartbroken parents say Danny gave up after years of being bullied at Holy Angels Catholic Academy in Bay Ridge. Now, Danny`s family is planning

a funeral instead of a birthday.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When my time comes, I want my hug, all those hugs he owes me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Danny Fitzpatrick wrote a letter in July detailing the unrelenting torture from his classmates. He said the school did not help him. Here is

what his angry father said in a Facebook post.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

FITZPATRICK: He and I went to the school, went to the principal. You have to try harder, Danny. Children can be such horrible creatures. They ain`t

creatures. They`re monsters. If I ever see any (bleep) child in my life from now on -- doesn`t matter if it`s a boy, girl, straight, bi, whatever

to the bull, I will knock you (beep) out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: I`m back with Areva, Eric, Michele, and Pat. Joining us is Scott Rynecki. He is the attorney for the Fitzpatrick family. Scott, thank you

for joining us.

SCOTT RYNECKI, ATTORNEY FOR THE FITZPATRICK FAMILY: Thank you for having me.

PINSKY: Have you filed a lawsuit against the school?

RYNECKI: Not as of yet. That`s actually in the works. We`re still uncovering some more information even as we speak.

PINSKY: Now, there are reports that have risen regarding Danny`s mom and her alcohol -- relationship with alcohol. You know, obviously kids that get

bullied are at-risk kids. That doesn`t diminish the impact that bullying or the fact that there was bullying. Has the school tried to displace the

responsibility somewhere?

RYNECKI: They have. In fact, earlier in 2015, when the family had made repeated complaints to the school about the bullying, what the school tried

to do was say it had something to do with their home. And they sent ACS to the home.

ACS came and investigated the family and said there is nothing wrong. This is totally unfounded. This is a clear issue relating to bullying. And in

fact, the family reached out to therapists and they had him going to a therapist to deal with the bullying issue.

But this was an issue that was going on verbally, emotionally, and in fact, physically. And yet the school and the supervisors there did nothing about

it.

PINSKY: Michele, I see you nodding. This must be a familiar story that you must deal with.

BORBA: Yes, it is. And it`s haunting. First of all, any school, your number one thing is you need to create an environment that is safe for the

students at the moment they walk in that classroom.

In terms of cost, doesn`t have to cost a dime. Every single school, first day can give a definition of what bullying is in kid term. Give every child

a 3 by 5 card. Have you ever been bullied? Have you seen your other friends being bullied on a scale of one to ten. Bullying reduction starts with

surveying. How many kids are having a problem?

And then number two is identify your hot spots. Where are the place where is it`s reoccurring and happened? Because bullying is situational, Dr.

Drew. It doesn`t happen everywhere. You put adult supervision in those particular spots like bathrooms, hallways, back of buses.

What will they discover is it begins to at least 50% of the bullying begins to reduce. Then you can zero in on how to stop it so you can mobilize the

rest of your students to step in and help.

PINSKY: I always want the bullying kids to be treated too because they`re usually at-risk kids as well. But Pat...

LALAMA: Yes.

PINSKY: ... I see you, you know, wanting the parents and the school to be a unit that work together.

LALAMA: Well, you know what? I`m waiting for the hate mail so bring it on. Lord knows I`m not diminishing the sense of grief and loss these parents

must feel, but it seems like we`re sort of throwing the whole alcoholism thing away. Saying it`s not about that. It`s all about the school. I don`t

see how you can separate the two.

This kid is talking about hiding in the attic and he feels angry and impacted by his mother`s alcoholism. I just don`t see how you can separate

that part of it and think that maybe it doesn`t have anything to do with the fact that he went to school and got bullied by kids who probably sensed

his sadness.

PINSKY: That`s right. Areva, I want to let you go out. It is the at-risk kids that really get the brunt of this stuff. And how does -- how does the

law look at that? How does that get parsed out to something like Pat comments?

MARTIN: The law doesn`t -- the law doesn`t care one iota about the fact that that kid comes from a house with alcoholism.

LALAMA: Too bad.

MARTIN: Doesn`t care if that kid is a disabled kid. The reality is if that child is being bullied, the child is being bullied. And the parents have

every right and expectation that the child will be safe while on the campus. I don`t want to diminish the parent`s drinking but CPS went out and

they found that there was no reason to remove the child from the home or otherwise doing thing...

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: One at a time. One at a time.

MARTIN: You made your point and this is my point. There is no reason that we should expect that the parents are responsible for this kid being

bullied simply because they had a drinking problem.

PINSKY: All right. Yeah.

LALAMA: I didn`t say they were responsible.

PINSKY: Hold on, ladies. Scott, you wanted to respond. Go ahead.

RYNECKI: To begin with, there was no indication anywhere in any of the notes that were left or any of the items written by the child, Danny, that

this alcohol-related issue was involved.

Second of all, as Areva said, the school supervisors have a duty. And they owe duty of supervision. When they`re made aware of an incident that`s

occurring, they have a duty to act. And in this case, they did not act.

What they did was they had a handbook that said they had a bullying prevention program known as the Always (ph) Prevention Program. But as you

were well aware, just to say you have a program is one thing. To implement it and do it is another.

And as Michele said earlier on, where was the question there, where was anything that the school did to actually look into it? The one thing they

did do is they sat down with Danny at one point in the room with five of the children who were bullying him and said to him, who is causing the

problem? You don`t do that with a child who was being bullied.

PINSKY: Yeah. We need -- we need -- yeah, we need sort of a national standard. That`s really dictated by professionals. But my understanding is

that...

RYNECKI: There`s a problem. You can`t just put your head in the sand here as a supervisor and educator. We entrust our children in schools. There has

to be something done.

PINSKY: Yeah. Pat, let me understand there`s a GoFundMe page set up to support this family.

LALAMA: Yeah, just one very quick thing. We all know that children sort of can oftentimes drop the ball. We don`t know all the facts yet about what

happened in this investigation.

So, regarding GoFundMe, apparently there was no insurance on the child and the parents wanted 10,000 dollars and apparently they`ve gotten 120,000 and

this was set up by the sisters. So clearly people feel very, very badly about it.

PINSKY: Eric, I`m sorry. I`ll give you last thoughts. Got a few seconds here.

GUSTER: It`s all of our responsibility and the school is ultimately at fault because they have the responsibility to make sure children are safe

at school. Period. It doesn`t matter what the parents did at home. We send our children to school to be safe.

PINSKY: Three attorneys, three opinions. Seem to agree. Next up, an update on the teen facing criminal charges for pretending to be a physician. Now

his attorney has a new plan to get him off the hook.

And later, police say a little boy with a stuffed dog was trying to sell the stuffed animal for food. His mother is fighting back on social media.

We`re back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(START VIDEO CLIP)

MALACHI LOVE-ROBINSON, ACCUSED OF EMPERSONATING A PHYSICIAN: I didn`t operate. I didn`t reach in someone`s uterus. You know? I didn`t snatch out

a baby. I didn`t do any of that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His Doximity profile says he`s a certified naturopathic doctor who performs counseling, marriage and family therapy,

and hospital administration.

And the resume on indeed.com reveals Dr. Love Robinson is an educational guru and health care professional with superior clinical skills including

obstetrics and gynecology, pediatrics and maternal health and child care.

LOVE-ROBINSON: So many physicians, they speak to me, and they`re just in awe. It`s not because I`m a great person. Not because I`m some miracle from

heaven sent. It`s just because I have a passion for helping people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: And he called himself Dr. Love. Malachi Love-Robinson is accused of impersonating a physician, stealing from at least one his unsuspecting

elderly patients, and now his lawyer may pursue an insanity defense.

I`m back with Areva, Eric, and Michele. All right, Michele, first of all let`s talk about clinical insanity. Would someone that can engage in this

kind of a ruse -- is that person likely to be insane? Let`s talk about what we mean by insane.

BORBA: Well, knowing the consequences, knowing right from wrong. Anybody who can number one put up an incredible resume about himself, come up with

your own scheme of knowing where all the doctor hospitals are, figuring out where the stethoscope is, the outfits. He`s very, very skilled. Number one,

in acting.

PINSKY: Well, let`s say the skill is manipulation.

BORBA: And also in manipulation and breaking through on people`s trust with forgery. No. Absolutely not when it comes to that.

PINSKY: And you`re moving into Michele`s sort of legally insane which is knowing right from wrong. For a clinician, insanity usually means

psychosis. Meaning, somebody has a thought disorder, they`re having hallucinations or disconnected from reality in some way.

While in this case, what are we looking at here? We are looking at the legal insanity defense. Areva, help us with that.

MARTIN: Yeah. Legally, the question is really was there a mental defect or deficit and was he able to distinguish right from wrong? I have such mixed

feelings about this case, Dr. Drew. Here`s this young man that in some ways is entrepreneurial. He goes...

PINSKY: Areva! Stop it! Stop it. He`s a...

PINSKY: I said mixed feelings. Of course there`s something wrong. He`s deceiving people. He`s putting people potentially in harm. He doesn`t seem

to recognize that what he`s doing is harmful. And he`s 19. As a mother, I`m sitting here thinking, okay, where are the parents?

What`s going on with this young man that at this young age he`s engaging in such reckless conduct and he could be facing serious jail time. I don`t

think this insanity defense from a legal standpoint is going anywhere. It`s DOA.

But the lawyer has an obligation, he has a tough job defending this guy. So I understand why he`s taking time to at least explore it. I don`t think it

has any chance. But I`m troubled by him.

PINSKY: I`m troubled by him too. Maybe for different reasons than you. But Eric, he has clearly a mental infirmity. So there`s something there. I

mean, we could argue about what that should be in the eyes of law.

He also rejected -- this kid rejected a plea deal that would have given him three years in prison and five years probation. Now he`s facing a lot more.

I think to me that`s all part of his grandiosity and his pathology.

GUSTER: Yes. When a person rejects a plea deal when you have them what we call dead to the right, there`s something probably wrong with him. To

Areva`s point, yeah, he went way over there. I`m going to tell you. If this was one of my relatives that he did doctor work on, I might be facing

charges. Because this young man way crossed a line.

He was mentally disabled or had a mental defect. He was doing harm to people. And that is what our problem is. Like I tell the young lawyers in

my office, if you don`t have anything -- if you have nothing but crap, you need to make fertilizer.

The lawyer in this case, they have to make something out of nothing. This man, he`s caught -- he`s been caught on camera talking about treating all

these patients. He has no choice but to work out a plea deal or take it to trial.

PINSKY: Well, under pressure to explain his educational background, I want to show you what he told ABC News. Here it is.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

LOVE-ROBINSON: Hold a PHD. In what? I don`t feel comfortable disclosing because that is not the issue here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But you treat people at this...

LOVE-ROBINSON: It`s accusations. There are many types of degrees out there that hold the title of doctor. Whether they are a physicist or an engineer.

Just because someone has the title doctor in front of their name does not necessarily imply M.D.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Right. Yet he was behaving as an M.D., as a physician. Well, turns out Mr. Robinson -- Mr. Love-Robinson got a doctorate degree in divinity

from an online, quote, universal life church seminary. That degree could be yours from the website for 29.95. So, anybody else that wants a degree.

Michele, my fear is -- my fear is somebody`s who`s manipulating people, manipulating social systems, seems to not really understand the

consequences of his behavior. As I recall in his history, he got caught already once then went back into the hospital.

I mean, I`m really worried that there`s not even just a psychological problem but it may be even a biological problem here where those parts of

the brain we associate with empathy and proper social functioning may be damaged.

BORBA: Well, wouldn`t you love to be able to take a backward spiral into figuring out where this all happened? It was not an overnight flip. It`s a

slow building up where empathy diminishes and his conscience is absolutely truncated out the doorway.

Because what you`re hearing is that he finds it all totally acceptable and he`s defined it as love. When in reality he`s forged, he`s done theft, he`s

pried on elderly. There are a lot of ramifications here that are absolutely off the red flag.

PINSKY: And -- and I believe that he doesn`t really understand the consequences of what he`s doing here. Prior to being caught by an

undercover officer in his own clinic. He established a clinic for himself with another guy. I remember I spoke to that guy. We previously reported on

this.

Mr. Robinson was masquerading as a doctor at Saint Mary`s Medical Center. He wore an embroidered white coat and walked with a stethoscope. The staff

said they seen him around for about a month. The hospital says, well, they claimed, he never treated a patient. But Areva, if he got in a patient

room, that`s a hip of violation.

MARTIN: Obviously what this young man is doing is wrong. And he`s going to face some consequences criminally for his action. He may even be sued

civilly by some of these patients that believed they were seeing a doctor.

But when you listen to that interview on ABC, you can`t help but believe this young man has disassociated himself from reality.

PINSKY: Yes.

MARTIN: He seemed to convince himself that he is a doctor.

PINSKY: I agree. I agree with you. That`s a biological thing when that happens -- when that happens.

MARTIN: Again, he`s 19 though, and I just can`t emphasize enough where are the adults in his life. Because this just didn`t happen today. This is

apparently been building up. This is, you know, a walk up to these now very serious criminal charges.

And if his relatives, his parents are someone that was responsible for him knew this was happening. You know, we`ve got to step up as parents. And

this is the perfect case where someone should have been in this young man`s life directing him, guiding him, and making sure he doesn`t end up in a

criminal justice system as a young African-American man at 19 years old.

PINSKY: I -- I would love to see that not happening. But now here`s a guy who has a plea deal before him and he`s too grandiose to accept that even

when he has adults that are saving him and professionals. We`ll keep this going. Next, the conversation continues.

And later, was this woman a bad housekeeper or a bad mom? She and her husband in big trouble tonight. I`ll tell you why. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(STARR VIDEO CLIP)

MALACHI LOVE-ROBINSON, ACCUSED OF EMPERSONATING A PHYSICIAN: I`ve done a lot of courses in institutions. Locally and some non -- non-locally in

alternative medicine. I`ve attended many conventions and conferences and I`ve done many exams which are required to get your boards in anything.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Malachi Love-Robinson is accused of impersonating a physician and stealing from at least one of his patients who trusted him. Back with

Areva, Eric, and Michele. Take a look at the charges Mr. Love-Robinson is facing. If convicted on all counts, he could spend 70 years in prison.

And Areva, as you said, we don`t need this kid in the criminal justice system, but he didn`t take the settlement which would have only been three

years.

MARTIN: Yeah. I`m disturbed by that because that seemed like a great deal given the charges that he faces and the potential jail time. This is a very

serious case. So much of the evidence is already on tape. He`s made admissions on these various interviews.

I don`t even know why he`s going about giving these interviews. He`s just digging a deeper and deeper hole for himself. There`s not going to be much

for his attorney to do as Eric so appropriately stated, this is going to be a very difficult case for him to be acquitted of.

PINSKY: Well, he doesn`t really. Eric, he doesn`t really understand what he`s -- the consequences of what he`s done. He doesn`t appreciate that he -

- he`s not somebody that sees these things normally. There`s something neurologically going on, from my opinion. I suspect at least. And how would

you deal with that as an attorney?

GUSTER: Well, that is what the defense has to show, Dr. Drew, in court. They have to show that he does not have an appreciation for the offenses

that he committed, that he allegedly committed, that he does not understand right from wrong.

And if they can bring in specialists to say that and convince the jury or the judge of that, then he may -- he would have a decent chance at a mental

capacity defense.

Now on the other hand, he may -- they may be trying to set up a defense to get with a jury and say, look, this young man made a dumb mistake. He made

a horrible decision. Please don`t convict him.

But some of us have tried cases and fallen on the mercy of the court and the jurors and begged and pleaded for mercy and tried not to get a

conviction, but just like Areva said, he has so much evidence on tape with all these various interviews. It`s going to be very difficult to overcome

that.

PINSKY: Michele, my fear is for somebody with this kind of pathology, they don`t tend to respond to treatment. They don`t tend to get better. It tends

to go from one thing to the next and the behaviors can get worse.

BORBA: Exactly. Because what they begin to do is the more they get away with it, the more they begin to have a more grandiose opinion about

themselves, and the last thing that they`re going to be able to do is take any kind of criticism, any kind of feedback.

And they really feel like what they`ve done is absolutely acceptable. And so, it`s a sad sinking of conscience as they begin to think they`re better

than the world.

PINSKY: The attorney says the following, quote, Malachi is a young man in need of treatment, not prison. Unfortunately, the State of Florida feels

otherwise. I -- I -- you know, Areva, I`m sympathetic to what you`re saying, I -- I maybe -- I mean, may...

MARTIN: I think he needs both. Clearly he`s committed a crime and he`s not above the law and he should face consequences if they can prove their case

in court. That`s what the criminal justice system is there to do.

PINSKY: Right.

MARTIN: But no doubt he needs a lot of treatment. And I hope if he does get convicted which I don`t know about that, I still as a mother, I`m feeling

really uneasy with that. But if he is convicted, I hope that the judge will look at some mitigating circumstances and hopefully doesn`t end up in jail

for a long period and he gets the help he needs.

PINSKY: It is hard for people to understand these kinds of conditions because it is so far from what the rest of us experience in life and in the

world. But you have to understand.

There are people with brains -- not everyone`s brains work the same. Not everyone`s minds work the same. We`re quite different. And some people have

massive liability for behaviors like this.

Next up, police say a little boy with a stuffed dog was trying to sell that toy for food. His mother is fighting back. And we are back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(START VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police respond to a call about a 7-year-old boy wandering the streets alone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He told me that he was trying to sell his stuffed animal to get money for food because he hadn`t eaten in several days.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An officer buys the child food and takes him to the station. Police go to the boy`s house and find this. A fridge covered in

filth, spoiled food, garbage.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cockroaches. Urine. Cat urine. Human urine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police removed the five children from the home. The parents are charged with child neglect. But that`s not the end of it. The

mother, Tammi Bethel, hits back on Facebook.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The cop just popped up on the wrong day. I hadn`t had a chance to clean the mess all the kids made. By the way, my kids didn`t

even eat the food that the cops brought them because they just ate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: That mother furious with police after being charged with child endangerment. She took the Facebook repeatedly to defend herself. Back with

Areva, Michele, and Pat. And joining us, Karamo Brown, former social worker. Pat, you`ve got even more.

LALAMA: Well, according to reports, when officers arrived at the home, Tammi Bethel and her husband, Michael, were sleeping 4:30 in the afternoon,

I`m not being nasty to parents again, I`m just telling you the facts, 4:30 in the afternoon they were sleeping.

Officers detected that there was alcohol and as it was said in those reports, they found the house in a horrific state of disarray. Garbage,

bugs, cat urine, liquor, and then of course the mother as you mentioned takes to Facebook and discussed some of the things she mentions.

I can also post pictures I randomly took from July to August that shows my house clean. And what exactly do my kids need? I just spent 2000 on school

clothes, supplies, and shoes. They didn`t even eat the McDonald`s you bought, although I thought it was subway...

PINSKY: Yes.

LALAMA: ... and she says she`s going to file a lawsuit. So, here we go.

PINSKY: Here we go again. But how long was the 6-year-old -- 6-year-old, right?

LALAMA: Seven.

PINSKY: Seven. How long was he with the police before the police brought him home? In other words, a 7-year-old was wandering around the city out of

the home for how long and parents didn`t know it?

LALAMA: Well, that`s unclear. But here`s what I think is the big issue that I`d like to hear debated is -- and I think the cop obviously thought he was

doing a wonderful thing by feeding this child.

But I wonder, did he call the parents first and say, hey, in case you`re worried -- and by the way, the parents were not aware that the kid was

gone. That`s an important factor here.

But did he alert someone that this was happening? Because I don`t know really if it`s good protocol to take the kid with you without calling the

parent.

PINSKY: Well, great question -- great question. Karamo, you`ve been out in the field, do you had any issue with how they proceeded here? We don`t know

that they knew how to get a hold of the parents.

They may have had to go back into the -- into the office -- into the police office and go through records, who knows with the computers or whatever.

What do you think?

KARAMO BROWN, FORMER SOCIAL WORKER: Yeah. This was the protocol in the way that the cops handled this was completely correct. If a police officer does

not understand or know how to contact the parents, their first job is to make sure that the child is sustained.

They`re going to give him some type of food and make sure he feels safe and that he is protected. Because the worst thing you want is for a police

officer to get custody of a child and that child feels like he`s for some reason in trouble.

So the police officer did what was right. And during that time period, he then would have tried to figure out who the parent is and then try to

contact them. Everything was done correct in this case. And especially when you have a child saying that they`re begging for food on the street.

That is a clear sign of physical neglect. As a former social worker, that is something that I`m gonna be looking for. Also when you go to the house

and you see that the house is in this disarray, there`s also emotional neglect that`s going on there.

So what the police officer did was correct. I`m so happy that these kids got taken out of the house and that these parents are charged.

PINSKY: So, Karamo, how dare you? You mean, these aren`t good parents. She said the cop just showed up at the wrong time. You`re so judgmental.

BROWN: So judgmental. I mean, come on. First of all, as a parent, Dr. Drew, you know if my house was dirty, if I have five kids, those children are

going to clean the house. But there`s something going on with the mother psychologically there.

She was okay living in that filth and then she was also okay with having her children live in this type of filth. And that`s inappropriate

because...

PINSKY: Not only that -- not only that. Then getting defensive on Facebook, which is really weird because this goes to the outer space for me. Don`t we

have a post of all in the Facebook of comments she was making? Bring that up here. Pat, you were trying to say something.

LALAMA: Well, I just the facts, ma`am, as I used to say on TV a long time ago. Okay. More facts are that the family has been investigated by children

services...

PINSKY: Hold on. Pat, I`m sorry. Here`s one. It`s too good. I got to read it. My son has always had fresh kicks. As a mart of a fact, I bought them

all Steph Currys at the beginning of the summer. What is wrong with being barefoot in the summertime? I know tons of people that go barefoot. Hasn`t

killed them yet.

She is thinking grandiose to defend herself. She reminds me of my last case. She would do good to pretend to be a doctor and go into a hospital.

LALAMA: Dr. Drew, listen, this is in Ohio. I grew up in Ohio and I loved barefoot summers. But the fact to matter is to be more serious about this

issue on my part is that this is a family that has had some issues.

She even posts herself on Facebook that she`s got a 17-year-old on probation, the children services have had an open case for a year. So there

are clearly problems in the house.

PINSKY: Areva, you going to try to defend her?

MARTIN: Well, I know today I`ve been defending folks. I can`t defend everything this mother did but what I can say is I`m equally concerned

about the system. Because this is a 7-year-old boy that apparently is school age, kindergarten, first grade. He`s in some school and I would have

expected the school to step in...

LALAMA: It`s summer.

MARTIN: ... make a report. This just didn`t happen. This house didn`t get this dirty. This kid didn`t get hungry over the summer. This has probably

been going on for awhile. So we will look at responsibility. The state also has a responsibility to keep kids safe. And if this mom -- she needs a lot

of help. She doesn`t need to be -- she doesn`t need to have custody of her kids right now. Eventually, I`d like to see her reunited with her kids. But

right now, she needs a lot of help.

PINSKY: Yeah. Right. That`s what I want to get. I know Pat jumped into the nanny state. I see that objection when you start shaking your glasses.

LALAMA: Personal responsibility. Personal responsibility.

PINSKY: But I want to get to Michele. Is it moving kids away from the mom is not a good thing? And really what we hope to do is to help this mom

regain her ability to be a parent. We do not -- we do not put that through.

BORBA: I so agree. But the number one thing is you want to make sure that a child feels emotionally and physically safe. My first question is why she

on a computer? Purchasing a computer when she should be making sure there`s food that is stocked and fresh.

When you have a 7-year-old -- 7-year-old, that`s a rare brave resilient kid who was out there with a teddy bear trying to sell it in order to get food.

One out of five children in the United States are food insecure.

PINSKY: That`s right. That`s food insecure. Because the parenting is not good in this particular case. What is any food for? He`s got Steph Currys.

Anyway, the community rallied to help this family but the mom says, keep your donations. We don`t need them. So, she is pushing back on the

community. We`ll get into it after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(START VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It broke my heart.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The 7-year-old was peddling his toy in front of a drugstore to get money to eat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He told me that he was trying sell his stuffed animal to get money for food because he hadn`t eaten in several days.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It turns out police say the child and his four brothers lived in squalor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cockroaches, urine, cat urine, human urine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: The parents of those children charged with child endangerment. But the mother says the police just walked in at a bad time. Her kids were in

fact well fed. Back with Areva, Michele, Pat, and Karamo.

Now, Areva, they have five young boys in the house. The house can get messy. Should we be cutting them some slack or is there a threshold beneath

which you should not let people fall?

MARTIN: The key here, Dr. Drew, is the safety of those five kids. So, it`s not about a dirty house, it`s not about cats or pets. It`s really about all

those kids physically and emotionally safe.

If they are not, they need to be removed from the home. The mom needs to be given the help that she needs to be a better parent, to make sure they are

emotionally and physically safe.

PINSKY: And Pat, this thing seems to have your head spinning. What`s going on? You`re agitated -- you`re agitated all the way through the commercial

break.

LALAMA: Yeah, I was. Did you see me? I was talking on my fan club around here who agree with everything I say, by the way. But no, that`s a

wonderful point. I`m not saying we shouldn`t have support systems in our community, but I thinks there is so much emphasis put on everybody besides

the people who have the primary responsibility and that`s the parents.

If you can`t take care of kids, you should not have them. So there, I said it. More hate mail on the way. But wait, one thing -- one thing she wrote.

Okay. Let`s -- let`s talk about this one, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Yeah, let`s do.

LALAMA: Just stating facts. My kids don`t need anything. If they did, I wouldn`t give a damn. How about that?

PINSKY: Yeah.

MARTIN: Just more evidence that this mom needs a lot of help. That`s all that these Facebook posts tell us. The woman is crying out for help. Let`s

get her the help so she can keep her kids.

PINSKY: This whole crying for help thing, I`m not so sure that`s what this is, but it certainly evident that she needs help. And Karamo, you`re the

one that has been out there in the field with this. It is very frustrating when people don`t really perceive the magnitude of what`s going on here.

BROWN: Yeah. It`s really frustrating. And the unfortunate part just to address with Areva was saying require for help. It does should be required

for help but unfortunately, these posts show her ego, and shows that she is unfortunately not concerned with her child`s well-being.

And we do need to get her help but this process -- the children will unfortunately probably be out of the house from my experience for a very

long time.

PINSKY: Oh, really.

BROWN: Because until she gets it in her head -- yes- until she gets it in her head that posting messages with Facebook should not be her main

priority. That defending her actions should not be her main priority. That her main priority should be first of all, apologizing to these kids and

seeking out the help and -- and owning up to what she`s done wrong and what has been done wrong to these children.

Things are not gonna change and no one is gonna put her back. No judge is going to put these kids back into their house and say that okay, this

behavior is not going to change.

PINSKY: And Michele, I see you nodding with Karamo saying that not only is Karamo based on experience is telling us this is going to take a long time.

But the hubris. This is the word that has been coming out of my mouth a lot lately.

When people become hubristic, oftentimes they`re trying to defend themselves against feeling shame. And the shame is what she would feel if

she comes to terms with what she`s actually done here. Listen. She needs to just, what we call surrender. Would you not say?

BORBA: Yeah. I do. But I think you have a commonality here that we need to come to grip with. Everyone of these stories is kids who are on life

support. I think if there was anything that we could do with day one when you walk out of the hospital with a diaper bag, you also get parenting 101.

Just three things that are so simple that everybody researched these are critical that may help this mom and every other. Learning how to handle

your own stress levels is number two on the list of good parenting.

Number one on the list is being there other than being emotionally and physically safe with your kids, but listening to them, and creating an

environment where they`re going to be able to have a chance to grow. I don`t know if any of these parents have ever had that.

PINSKY: And I would say I mentioned before the break that the community has been trying to reach out and respond to them. And kudos to the community,

kudos to law enforcement for trying to do what they can do. You`re going to have to keep this heat up I`m afraid for a while.

And then as you say, you know, it is unbelievable that we don`t have any sort of screening for parenting, but sometimes this bad out comes out and

what we end up with. Thank you, panel. Than you all for watching. We appreciate your being here. We`ll see you next time. My friend, Nancy

Grace, is up next.

END