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Dr. Drew
Ryan Lochte Rio Incident; Latest on Prince Death Investigation; What is Next for Teen Mom Amber Portwood? Aired 7-8p ET
Aired August 22, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DREW PINKSY, DR. DREW ON CALL HOST: Ryan Lochte says alcohol is responsible for the lie he told on national television during the Olympic games. Take a
look at this from NBC.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
MATT LAUER, JOURNALIST, NBC: So when you talked to Billy on Sunday afternoon, you didn`t tell the whole truth. When you spoke with me on
Wednesday night by phone, you didn`t tell me the whole truth.
RYAN LOCHTE, SWIMMER: I left -- I left details out, and -- which that`s why I`m in this mess. It is, I left certain things out, and I over-exaggerated
some parts of the story.
LAUER: Why did you do that?
LOCHTE: I don`t know why. You know, it was still hours after the incident happened. I was still intoxicated. I was still under that influence, and
I`m not making me being intoxicated a, like, an excuse, I`m not doing that at all. I mean, it was my fault, and I shouldn`t said that.
I should have even -- just, kept it, like, I`m not -- I`m not saying anything. But I over-exaggerated that part, and the gun was drawn, but not
at my forehead. It wasn`t cocked at my forehead. It was towards my general direction. As you can see in the surveillance, that`s when my hands went
up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joining me, Mark Eiglarsh, attorney, speaktomark.com, Bobby Chacon, retired FBI agent who has lived in Brazil, Judy Ho, clinical psychologist,
professor at Pepperdine University, and via Skype, I have Susan Constantine, body language expert.
Now, today, Lochte lost at least four sponsorships worth a million dollars. Mark, is this only getting worse for him?
MARK EIGLARSH, ATTORNEY: I hope so. I`ll tell you why. Listen. We`re fellow gators, nothing personal against the guy, but here`s the problem. He didn`t
say the L-word. He didn`t over-exaggerate. He was not less than candid. He lied.
If my kids ate cookies and said they didn`t, and said I over-exaggerated the story, I`ll look at them straight in the eyes and say, no, son or
daughter, you lied. More importantly, stay away from daddy`s cookies.
PINSKY: And Bobby -- Bobby, you got a little sort of -- crawling out of your skin over there when you watched him talk. What was that about?
BOBBY CHACON, RETIRED FBI AGENT: Well, I mean, he sits there and he says, I did this and I did that, I was intoxicated, and then he says I`m not using
that as an excuse. That`s exactly what you`re doing. You can`t say something like that and say I`m not using an excuse. Then why say it at
all?
PINSKY: He got emotional when asked that the scandal overshadowed the other athletes competing in the Olympics. I`m gonna show this from NBC. Take a
look.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
LOCHTE: I took away from their accomplishments about this story, about me being immature for one night. I took away from that, and that`s what I
think hurts me the most is that all that, everyone`s just watching my immature tantics, and I`m just -- I`m embarrassed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Susan, seeing anything that looks like genuine emotion there?
SUSAN CONSTANTINE, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: No. I see exasperation. When you see his mouth kind of turning out very quickly, he`s constantly feeling
exasperated. So, I did not see genuine side there.
One thing that I want to make some point to is exactly what the FBI agent said. It`s when you look at the statement analysis, he says, I`m not making
intoxication an excuse. I want you to remove those two words off. He basically says, it is exactly what I`m making as an excuse.
PINSKY: It`s not me. Lochte says he has major regrets from that night in Rio. Take a look at this now from NBC.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
LOCHTE: That`s why I`m taking full responsibility for it. Is because I over-exaggerated that story, and if I never done that, we wouldn`t be in
this mess. Those guys would never be in Rio or were in Rio, nothing of it - - none of this would happened, and it was my immature behavior of, you know, we just finished.
We were wanting to celebrate, and we hadn`t been drinking or anything like months before that, and I definitely had too much to drink that night, and
I was very intoxicated, and none of this would happened if I didn`t do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Judy, you know, I don`t know what you`re seeing here, but the couple of things that jumped out at me, one is, he never says I`m sorry,
really. Never really apologizes, surely didn`t hear him make some amends, and he never says, I lied, I`m so sorry.
[19:05:00] JUDY HO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: That`s right. And even though he says he`s taking full responsibility, Dr. Drew, he clearly isn`t. Because
he hasn`t said that he lied. And He also didn`t apologize.
And even as he`s talking and getting emotional about the fact that he`s really overshadowed some of the other athletes, I believe that he can be
somewhat empathetic there because he`s an athlete.
He`s thinking what if the attention was taken off of me, I could actually deal with that, I can understand what that feels like, but if you look at
Ryan Lochte`s social media history, the way he`s behaved in public before, he is somebody who largely says whatever he wants, very kind of egotistic
without consequence, and here he is actually having to pay consequences now...
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: But isn`t that the issue with narcissistic sort of personality which is shame is not to be avoided, responsibility pushed elsewhere. Mark,
you want so say something.
EIGLARSH: Yes. This is all about defect in character. I don`t think alcohol played the role here. I think it`s his defects in character. The question
should have been asked, and I love Matt Lauer, but he missed this opportunity.
When you say that "there was a gun pressed to your forehead," that was a lie, wasn`t it? When you say there were armed assailants, multiple, who
displayed police badges, that was a lie, wasn`t it?
That gun was never cocked to your head, isn`t that correct? It was a lie. And he would have, I guess, said, yes, I guess its -- it`s an L-word, yeah,
but he never did. That`s the defect in his character.
PINSKY: But Bobby, again, give him a little benefit of the doubt, people in this intense situations, where gun is drawn, they`re intoxicated, I can see
people can distort and sort of confused what`s going on. Is it possible some of this was that?
CHACON: No, I don`t think so at all. I think that -- I think that this was a bunch of guys who did the wrong thing, they knew they did the wrong
thing, they probably tried to pay their way out of it and say, here`s some money, don`t call the cops, let`s get on our way, and now he turned tables
completely and says he was robbed. Nothing about a robbery.
PINSKY: Bobby, your wife was down there, what`s it look like on the street there?
CHACON: Well, you know, it`s a dangerous place. You have to have your guard up all the time, which I`ve done living there for the last two years, but,
you know, certainly, this was a uniformed off duty police officer who is there to guard the place.
PINSKY: What did your wife report to sort of vibe this incident was from people there in Brazil?
CHACON: You know, Brazilians are very resilient people and they`re very forgiving. They just want to get past it. They find this whole thing, this
whole setback -- incremental setback of his apology really puzzling. It`s not in their nature to do that. If they get caught lying, you`re get caught
lying, you admit to it, and you say, yeah.
PINSKY: Let me show you a little more from NBC. Here it is.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
LAUER: Were you robbed on Sunday morning in Rio? How would you answer it?
LOCHTE: I can`t answer that. Because I don`t know if -- because I was intoxicated so I don`t know. All I know is that there was a gun pointed at
us, and we had it. We were demanded to give money. Whether it was to pay for the damages of the poster, whether it was extortion or whether it was
robbery, like, I can`t -- I can`t -- I`m not equipped to say.
LAUER: I want to point out that...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That was indecipherable. Next up, he`s taking a beating from just about everybody. Does he deserve it, Ryan Lochte, or is he getting up even
easier than we think he should? And later, teen mom, recovering addict, convicted criminal. What is next for Amber Portwood? She`s here. I`ll get
into it with her.
[19:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(START VIDEO CLIP)
AL ROKER, TELEVISION PERSONALITY, NBC: He lied. He lied to you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah.
ROKER: He lied to Matt Lauer. He lied to his mom. He -- he -- he left his teammates hanging while he left.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He certainly lied about some...
ROKER: No, no, he lied.
(CROSSTALK)
ROKER: Okay. There was no robbery. There was no pullover. There was nothing. Nobody cocked a gun to his head.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was no gun cocked to his head.
ROKER: He lied.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If somebody is saying, give me money or you can`t leave.
ROKER: He lied.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He embellished...
ROKER: No -- no -- no...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Money unwillingly came out of his pocket.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That was Al Roker, NBC, implying that perhaps we are all letting Ryan Lochte off too easy. Back with Mark, Judy, Bobby, and joining us,
Areva Martin, attorney.
Now, take a look at this photo posted by our friend, Spirit, a frequent guest on the show. On the left is Tamir Rice, a 13-year-old boy shot and
killed by police while holding a toy gun. He was called a threat.
While on the right, we have Ryan Lochte, who after vandalizing a gas station, lying and all that, we`ve been going over here, called a kid.
Spokesperson of the Olympic community said, quote, let`s give these kids a break, Lochte is 32. Areva, is there a problem here?
AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY: A real big problem, Dr. Drew. And the whole way the story was reported was giving Lochte a grown man -- a fully grown man every
benefit of the doubt. And I talked about this last week myself.
Why the language? Why the careful language? Why not call what he did the way we would describe it if it was someone other than, you know, Lochte? If
this was an African-American, if this was a Latino, we hear words used like thugs and hoodlums and other derogatory words that we`re not hearing as
people talk about this -- this horrible situation.
PINSKY: Well, the -- the good news is we`re not talking about mental illness for a change, which is nice. Although, alcohol certainly figured in
here. And, Mark, we would use words if we were describing him a vandal liar, right?
EIGLARSH: Clearly. What he`s doing, and everyone needs to understand this. People who don`t know all the facts, what he`s doing is very bright. The
best lies are based upon half truths. So, he`s taking a scenario where someone did point a gun very briefly, but it wasn`t an armed robbery.
It was a negotiation for a settlement for the vandalism that he did. Those are completely different scenarios, but he`s trying to jumble it up and
make it seemed like that scenario occurred. Shame on you, Ryan. We know what you`re doing, dude.
PINSKY: Judy, he is jumbling up. Every time he -- every time he deflects and defers and off the skates, I -- I get confused about what he`s talking
about, and he makes it seemed sort of -- almost although he doesn`t even understand the question he`s being asked, but is that merely obfuscation to
get away with his lies and not to feel the shame that he would feel if he actually apologized?
[19:15:00] HO: Absolutely. Because he`s smart enough to know what the question is, was this a robbery, means, and what you just showed, he
couldn`t even answer the question. He was dancing around that.
PINSKY: Was it a lie? Is it a lie? Well, I don`t know. Was it a lie? I don`t know. Was I there? I don`t remember. Let me think.
HO: Exactly. He absolutely is not taking any responsibility. Why even go on Matt Lauer? You`re still not admitting responsibility. Is it PR move? This
is making us more angry at him.
MARTIN: I think, Dr. Drew, we have to call this what it is. It`s an attempt that he was making to avoid what we saw happen today, which is his
endorsers start to pull away from him and drop him because of this conduct.
PINSKY: And Bobby, I assume that`s almost inevitable. I mean, again, your wife is down there at the Olympics. I`m sure she has interacted with a lot
of these supportive elements. They are not going to tolerate it.
CHACON: Well, we hope not. Next step, I think, is USA swimming to come down and suspend him, if not for a lifetime. A five-year ban.
PINSKY: Well, hold on. Now that you mention that, I`m going to review with you the fact that in 1998, there was an Olympic swimmer involved in a
prank. He took an 800-dollar marble lion`s head from a hotel.
USA swimming suspended him for 18 months. Bobby, is that the kind of thing that should be done to Lochte or something, I mean, you know, I don`t know
how much it cost to repair the mirror. Theoretically, vandalism is not as bad, but the lying and the leaving his peers out.
CHACON: Absolutely. I don`t think they should look at the actual incident that happened. Obviously, they should look at that, but the aftermath of
what he`s done to the sport and what he`s done to the Olympics, what he did to his teammates, I think that would justify at least a five-year
suspension. He should be at least kept out of the next Olympics, if not longer.
PINSKY: All right. I`m gonna take a break. We`re gonna go next to Prince and his pills. They were labeled one thing, but turned out to be something
else. It turned out to be a drug that was involved in his death.
And later, my exclusive with Amber Portwood and much older fiance. I`ll confront them about that relationship and their addiction history. Back
after this.
[19:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(START VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Opioids were involved in Prince`s death. It was an overdose of quote, self-administered Fentanyl. I still believe there`s got to be
benzodiazepine here in this situation. Really hard to die on pills and overdose, unless you`re slamming it, unless you`re shooting it.
My fear is if somebody then gave him a sleep medicine, a benzodiazepine, a combination of the opioid and the benzodiazepine is a fatal combination.
It`s a lethal combination. Let`s cut it out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: A twist in Prince`s death saga. Pills found in his home labeled at hydrocodone or at least with the characteristic stand of hydrocodone
actually contained Fentanyl which is in fact what was found in his blood.
Back with Mark, Judy, and Areva. Joining us, Sara Sidner, CNN correspondent who has been covering this Prince`s story since the beginning. Sara, what
do we know about these pills?
SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Dr. Drew, the Star Tribune is reporting a source saying they have information that indeed the pills were labeled one
thing, but turned out, when tested, to be Fentanyl.
And the significance of this is great for investigators especially because they were looking at a couple of things. One is this potentially a
manufacturer mislabeling the pill. But more than likely, our law enforcement sources are saying, we have seen this before where counterfeit
pills are made to look like something else, but actually indeed contain Fentanyl.
Why would someone do that. Well, if you`re dealing this drug, it is cheaper to take little tiny amount in microgram of Fentanyl and put this something
to give them on a high bid is to make some of these other drugs like hydrocodone, oxycodone on and on and on.
And so that is what investigators will be looking at. There`s a second part to the reporting where the source also said, look, when we looked at the
toxicology reports, there were other things in his system, and the amount of Fentanyl found in Prince`s system, and we know that he`s very petite,
112 pounds, 63 inches, so he`s a small frame person.
They said it didn`t matter how big or small he was. The amount found in his system would have killed anyone who took it. So, those are two very
interesting details that investigators are certainly going to be looking through, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: So much there to sort of parse through here. One is sometimes when they have this counterfeit put pills, the counterfeit production will
include alprazolam which is the benzodiazepine I kept saying in that tape is definitely gonna be in his blood because when you die of an opioid
overdose, it`s almost always a combination, if it`s orally, any way.
You can intravenously kill yourself with opioid, but it`s almost impossible to do it orally, unless you have the sublingual version and transbuccal
version of Fentanyl which they did not find with him, which is weird to figure out how he had got such high levels into his blood, unless he was
taking it all along and they did not know of it, not to get to the high levels.
The question remains though. Did the Xanax, the alprazolam, come from these counterfeit pills or did somebody give him a prescription for that that
killed him. Sara, any sense about that?
SIDNER: What we know so far from investigators is that they have not found a valid prescription for Fentanyl. We do not know if he has a valid
prescription for anything else either. That is still under investigation. And again, this investigation is still ongoing. We are four months out.
Investigators are not giving information officially, but this is some of the sources that has come out in this case. It really is stark. This brings
up a lot of issues as you know, Dr. Drew, with the problem with opioids in the country.
PINSKY: Oh, please.
SIDNER: Right? I don`t want to get you started, but I know that this is something that you talked about a lot.
PINSKY: Yeah.
SIDNER: Really, we want to learn what not to do again. If he`s an example of this, he`s done something good for the country, but we need to know all
the details, and that`s a difficulty.
The law there, very, very, very specific on what it is that they can officially release, and that`s why we are getting all the source stuff. It
makes it really hard to figure out exactly what happened.
[19:25:00] PINSKY: Let me help interpret a little bit more. They also said they found lidocaine in his blood. Ant that`s what they typically put in
patches when people have back pain or hip pain. They are aware of lidocaine or Xylocaine patch. Judy, do you want to add anything to what I said?
HO: Absolutely. You know, as you just mentioned with Sara, opioid abuse is on the rise all across the country. It really passes through all barriers,
whether it`s ethnic barriers, age barriers, demographics.
PINSKY: I`ll stop you. We actually hit a pick and I think turned the corner a little bit, at least certainly in the physician prescribing. The heroin
thing keeps going, but I think that`s still the aftermath of what me and my peers have created.
HO: That`s right. You know, the problem with the opioid abuse is that there is a prescription to some of these. So that`s how some people will start,
because there is a prescription, it doesn`t feel like it is a street drug.
They don`t realize though how dangerous that can really be especially as you said when the cocktail starts. And when you`re actually starting to
medicate when they`re coming from the effects of the opioids, you`re starting to have to deal with, perhaps for some people the anxiety that
comes up which might explain the Xanax here.
PINSKY: Sleeplessness is the big thing. Evening hours. But here`s something -- one piece of good news, which is that, you know, in my history with
following this opioid epidemic, I watched it burgeon in Florida and grow out of the Floridian pain clinics. We have a representative here, Mark
Eiglarsh, from Florida. Mark, do you want to comment?
EIGLARSH: There you go. There you go again. Always blaming me for what goes down here. I didn`t want to say -- first of all, anyone who is responsible,
whether it would be a doctor, whether it would be handlers, someone from staff, an acquaintance or a street dealer, whose responsible for putting
this drug which is 100 times more potent than morphine, I`ve been told, should not walk but run to the nearest criminal defense lawyer. Not
necessarily mean not a plug, but they could be held responsible for his death.
PINSKY: Areva, anything to add to that?
MARTIN: We saw that with respect to Michael Jackson and the doctor that was held responsible for his death. So, I agree 100 percent with Mark that this
is serious and we may see criminal charges being filed against doctors.
And we know that there were some doctors who were supposed to be -- a doctor traveling from California. There was allegedly a doctor in his
hometown. So, lots of questions about the physicians in his life and those that were potentially involved in getting him any of the medications that
was found in his system.
PINSKY: That was a bizarre sort of chapter in the story where they were dispatching somebody from California to give him the withdrawal medication.
That was very, very bizarre. Someone who did not have a license to practice and only sent his son. We`ll find out more one day about that.
Don`t get so caught up in the fact that this is much more powerful than morphine. Guess what? It`s dispensed and was the magnitude of lower doses?
It is with tiny, tiny, tiny doses. That`s again why the counterfeits use it. They put a dribble in to get the same effect as hydrocodone.
HO: That`s right. They are microgram that they are prescribed in. But, Dr. Drew, do you feel like for these individuals, because of the fact that
physicians often monitor these medications in the first place, and later on when they monitor, they may not actually be sanctioned to do that, but
there`s something that feels protective when a physician is involved, don`t you think?
PINSKY: Yes, please.
HO: And that`s why they get hooked easily.
PINSKY: I know. Listen. This is another hour. We can do it some day. I get upset when I think about it. I say towards the end of the last decade, I
would say about 80 percent of my patients would say, I`m taking them as prescribed, and they become strung out.
Now, according to the Star Tribune, investigators are leaning towards the theory that he did not know that the pills have Fentanyl. It doesn`t really
matter. He was taking enough to get very, very high levels. I heard, Sara, also, there was a report that he had some blood work done or some sort of
screening test earlier.
The problem is, Fentanyl is not detected in the routine urine toxicology screening that you typically do in an office setting. So, I don`t know why,
you know, why these -- that`s what I read. I don`t know why they are relying on that.
SIDNER: Yeah. He did talk to a doctor. We know that. That doctor, by the way, was at Paisley Park the day he died, and so we know that there was a
doctor there. That does not mean that he was mistreating Prince, but it is an odd situation where you have a doctor coming to someone`s home.
I mean, generally, these days, you really don`t get doctors. At least, I certainly can`t get mine to come to my house. So, you know.
PINSKY: It`s special care. Special people getting special care, which always is a sub-standard care, especially when addiction and substances are
involved. People need a team around them. They need containment. They don`t need any kind of special care. Thank you, panel.
Next up, we have an exclusive teem mom, Amber Portwood, and her much older fiance, are here to set the record straight about addiction, miscarriage,
and more. Don`t miss it. Back after this.
[19:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... again. Deep breath. And push. Push hard. Beautiful!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a girl.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So pretty.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: America was introduced to teen mom, Amber Portwood, on MTV when she was 16 and pregnant. That was in 2008. Her daughter, Leah, is
now 7 years old, happy and healthy. Amber`s mental health and relationship with men has been anything but.
AMBER PORTWOOD, TEEN MOM: I go into rehab.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She suffered from issues, depression, addiction to prescription pills, violence towards her dad, Gary, coupling with a
struggle to stay sober landed her in jail for nearly two years.
Now, she`s with a new man, Matt. He`s 45, she`s 26. Matt`s mysterious and checkered past past as a deadbeat dad and addict seemed to have fueled the
chaos in Amber`s life.
PORTWOOD: I can`t go through prison and addiction and custody battle, and this, and be okay.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:35:00] PINSKY: And Amber Portwood, what is part of what we call the Teen Mom OG or Original Girls, the new season premiers on MTV tonight at
9:00 p.m., that`s August 22nd, 9:00 p.m. I`ve been a part of Amber`s teen mom journey since the beginning.
Joining me exclusively is Amber and her fiance, Matt, to address the gossip and how it is going. Sort of get you here to set the record straight.
There`s a lot of buzz and nonsense about you guys. That`s something swirling around you since the beginning too.
PORTWOOD: Yeah.
PINSKY: So, this is your chance. Let`s set it straight. What`s happening?
PORTWOOD: I think, you know, instead of attacking me, they started attacking the person that I was with. I mean, I`ve already been through
this. I`m pretty used to it. I`ve not had any negativity in the last couple years since I`ve been out of prison.
PINSKY: And I visited you in prison. You did a great program there. You`ve been sober since.
PORTWOOD: Yeah.
PINSKY: People get after you for drinking, and I had concerns about that.
PORTWOOD: Yeah.
PINSKY: But it`s none of their business, right?
PORTWOOD: Yeah.
PINSKY: It`s none of my business frankly. I`m just here to coach you.
PORTWOOD: But I listen. You know, it`s -- it`s my decision in the end. But it`s not like I`m getting drunk and...
PINSKY: You`re certainly very different now than when we first know each other.
PORTWOOD: Yeah.
PINSKY: Very different.
PORTWOOD: Yes. Well, I remember you now.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: What are they saying about Matt?
PORTWOOD: The main thing is about him having all these kids, his addiction isn`t real. That he made it up.
PINSKY: Let me interrupt you for a second. Speaking of kids, how`s Leah?
PORTWOOD: She`s just started second grade which is making me feel old, but, you know, I`m 26 now, so I guess I have...
PINSKY: That`s crazy.
PORTWOOD: Yeah.
PINSKY: So, Matt, they come after you. How`s it feel to be in the white hot light of scrutiny?
MATT BAIER, AMBER PORTMAN`S FIANCE: It sucks. Really kind of does.
PINSKY: Yeah.
BAIER: You know, it`s been going on for now over a year that this has been going on with us.
PINSKY: What`s going on? What is it?
BAIER: It just it seems like every day, there`s a new article, another source says, Matt did this or this happened in Matt`s life, Matt wronged me
in such and such a way, and...
PINSKY: Are these people selling stories?
BAIER: I don`t know if they are getting paid, and I really don`t care to be honest with you.
PORTWOOD: Most likely some of them.
PINSKY: Let me ask you about your guys` life. On a positive note, you have a wedding planned in October?
BAIER: We -- we pushed the wedding back, actually. We actually pushed it away, pushed it back about six months.
PINSKY: I want to get all this stuff out. Let`s get to that.
PORTWOOD: Yeah.
PINSKY: There was tabloid saying you had a miscarriage.
PORTWOOD: That is not true at all.
PINKSY: Okay. And prescription pills were involved.
PORTWOOD: Not true at all. You would be the first to know.
BAIER: Dr. Drew, that`s actually the reason we wanted to come on. That was the article that kind of pushed us over the edge.
PINSKY: Yeah.
BAIER: Because when you start to attack in a sobriety and talk about the loss of a child and say that a mystery teen mom lawyer is the source,
that`s when we really decided to speak up about this stuff. We`ve been quite about this for about a year, and it kind of pushed us over the edge.
PINSKY: You and I spoke candidly about your history with opiate addiction. To me, it seemed like you spoke with a guy who knew recovery.
BAIER: Yeah.
PINSKY: And now, some people call that into question too?
PORTWOOD: Yeah.
BAIER: That was one article that actually somebody made the claim. I wish I made up my addiction. I really do. Because, you know, but...
PINSKY: I was giving you crap to get back to the program, too, your program is not as solid as it needs to be with the history you told me you had.
BAIER: Correct. Yeah. And it`s still not.
PINSKY: I have -- all right, fair enough. I have Spirit with me. Spirit is, of course, a psychotherapist contributing to the show all the time. And
Spirit, you`re essentially there to keep me honest and keep me on track tonight. Anything you`re concerned about?
SPIRIT, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: You know, I have a lot of questions just about co- dependency and those kind of things, Dr. Drew.
PINKSY: Yeah.
SPIRIT: I`m sure the people will talk about the age difference between these two individuals, and the fact that they have such a similar history,
will that help them or will that hurt them? So, I got to be taking everybody to task tonight.
PINSKY: It`s a great question. One of the things that happens with people in recovery is they reach for what they think is a life preserver and they
grab an anchor or an anvil.
PORTWOOD: Yeah.
PINSKY: You guys did not get involved in the first year of your sobriety. Did you?
PORTWOOD: No.
PINSKY: So, you managed to stay clean.
PORTWOOD: Yes. As you know, you know, in the beginning of your sobriety, you`re supposed to stay alone, you`re supposed to figure yourself out. You
just supposed to get a plant first before getting in a relationship, is what they told me...
PINSKY: Right.
PORTWOOD: ... which I didn`t do, but I waited for over a year and a half when I got out of prison and...
PINSKY: And you told me that you`re sober in prison. Three years?
PORTWOOD: Almost three years.
PINSKY: Almost five years of sobriety. To recap your prison, you ended up being a peer counselor?
PORTWOOD: Yeah. I taught anger management and pretty much like a principal of a school. I put people in classes, I taught them, I learned myself. I
mean, it was an amazing program.
PINKSY: There we are, back in the prison. Crazy.
PORTWOOD: Yeah.
PINSKY: Forgot what that was like. But Matt, let`s take it back to you because you`re the one that Amber`s concerned with. What else you want
people to know? What`s going on here?
BAIER: I think that the most important thing is, yes, I had a lousy past. The proof is bad enough, why make stuff up.
PINSKY: What is the truth? Let`s -- let`s put it out there. How many kids?
[19:40:00] BAIER: I have five. I owe 0 dollar in child support. That`s one of the issue that has been written. He`s a deadbeat dad. I was not a
deadbeat dad, I was an absentee dad back then. And I think there`s a big difference.
PINSKY: You were using?
BAIER: Oh, yeah. I absolutely was using. And I tell my kids now that I`m going through a lot of the apology stage and the amend stage with my kids,
and just telling them that their dad was a piece of crap. It`s just a fact. I was not around.
I -- I -- I did care about drugs more than I care about anything else. And I was selfish. Now that I`ve been sober for a little while, and I`ve grown
up quite a bit, I`m trying to reconnect those...
PINSKY: What about the allegations that you`re manipulating Amber, you`re a deadbeat, you said you want to be on T.V. or to make money? What do you say
to those people?
BAIER: I`ve been around for three years. I think she would have figured that out by now.
PORTWOOD: I wish people would give me more credit to make decisions.
PINKSY: Spirit, I want to go to you. The headline for me and so much with the the stuff that I read about Amber and Matt is sort of nobody`s
business. You know what I mean? How Amber conducts her sobriety, whom she chooses to be with in a long term relationship. If she was not on a reality
show, it would beg no issue.
PORTWOOD: Right.
SPIRIT: Absolutely, Dr. Drew. And the bottom line is I hope that both of them, no matter what the outcome of this is, I hope that they turn away
from all of the social media. I hope that they turn away from all of the nay sayers and those who will judge.
PINSKY: They have. Listen, they have, but...
SPIRIT: Impacting their sobriety.
PINKSY: For sure. But it`s the rag system, it`s the publications under your skin.
PORTWOOD: Yeah.
PINKSY: I want to address something next that is a significant issue that has been out there in the press I want to address head-on. And that is the
fact that Matt`s own son called him evil, a con artist. We`re gonna talk to Matt about these accusations and his son a little bit after the break.
[19:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His car`s outside.
PORTWOOD: The guy I`ve been hiding from you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Amber Portwood.
PORTWOOD: We`re best friends for like six months, and I -- I fell in love.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Honestly, how did you meet?
PORTWOOD: Twitter.
BAIER: Twitter.
PORTWOOD: And he`s a lot older, so it makes it better, he`s more mature.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What`s a lot older?
BAIER: 19 years.
So, will you marry me?
PORTWOOD: Yeah.
BAIER: You will?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Spirit and two of the stars MTV`s "Teen Mom OG" so called Original Girls, and her fiance, Matt Baier. Now, Matt, you guys met on
Twitter and you went back and forth.
People, again, people are taking issue with the way that you were a super fan of the show, and you first contacted Farrah, so the allegations go. Set
the record straight on that. And then the big age difference between you guys which people make a lot of.
BAIER: I was not a super fan of the show. I said this a million times. I watch three episodes of Teen Mom 2. And yes, there was a text, a tweet sent
to Farrah, but people thought he was hitting on her. First of all, I wanna say for the first time the truth.
I`m not even the one who wrote that tweet. No, they weren`t hitting on her, but a friend of mine actually making fun of her.
PINSKY: So when you say he was hitting on her, that`s why you put the third person in there.
BAIER: It`s honest to God truth and he`s actually said this on the show which is never -- has not aired yet. He admitted...
PINSKY: How much is your age difference? People get a lot of energy around that.
BAIER: Yeah, that we have an age difference. We don`t -- we don`t see it. I mean, we`re...
PINSKY: Almost 20 years.
BAIER: Physically, people can see it. We can see it physically as well. But again, we`ve been together for three years. I mean, this isn`t something
that we -- we talk about. We have so much in common, I think.
PORTWOOD: Yes.
BAIER: She`s an old soul, and I`m a little bit immature.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: And there`s a little bit of chaos in the beginning.
BAIER: Oh, yeah.
PINSKY: is that someone smooth out?
BAIER: Oh, yeah.
PORTWOOD: We had a rough patch.
PINSKY: Now, I want to get to what your son had said, if you guys don`t mind, is your adult son, Chris, he called you -- just what was alleged. An
evil man, a con artist, never had addiction, that you just conned me on that.
BAIER: Right.
PINKSY: What happened when you read that?
BAIER: I cried. I -- I actually broke down. When I read it, at first, I was a little bit shocked. And then I reread the article, and as Amber was
there, I just literally broke down crying because people can say anything they want about you, but when it comes from your own -- your own child, it
-- it really, really hurt.
PINSKY: Did you contact Chris?
BAIER: Right away. I contacted him right away. The interesting thing is we`ve been talking almost on a daily basis up to that point, which is why
it took me by surprise.
PINSKY: Chris is here. He`s sitting in the audience. Let`s hear Chris` point of view on this. What was that?
CHRIS BAIER, SON OF MATT BAIER: My words, obviously, were twisted a little bit, but, yeah, I did not have nice things to say at the same time, and I
was not in a good place. Honestly, I was -- I was on -- obviously using drugs, and I don`t know. I have no idea.
PINSKY: Feel differently now?
BAIER: Absolutely. I lied.
PINSKY: You lied. Those were lies?
BAIER: Some of them, yeah.
PINKSY: Those were in the disease?
BAIER: I think it was just my own build up.
PINSKY: When you say some, which ones were truthful?
BAIER: Using words like evil and nasty and con artist. I`m not sure. You don`t know what you are talking about when you say that.
PINSKY: And maybe he saw you when you were using.
BAIER: Probably. And, you know, it`s -- I was never angry with Christopher for saying that. I remember saying to Amber, I`m not, he`s my son, I love
my son unconditionally. He probably had a lot of bent up anger towards me because I was not there for him growing up.
PINSKY: I bet. Probably, he must have that, right?
BAIER: I know I would.
PINKSY: Yeah. And so, what`s important to me right now for Chris is he`s getting treatment? Are you okay?
BAIER: Oh, I`m good, yeah.
[19:50:00] PINSKY: You`re in a program? You following through with the professionals?
BAIER: Like, for rehab?
PINKSY: Yeah.
BAIER: No.
PINSKY: You`re not doing treatment?
BAIER: No.
PINSKY: Okay. So you guys...
PORTWOOD: He`s with us right now for a reason. Something happened and he needed help. So, we flew him out here. So we can help and we`re helping him
out. He`s with two strong people. He`s with people that knows what he`s going through. And you know, this is our way of giving back to something
that needed to happen in first place.
PINSKY: Let me go to Spirit. Spirit, so we are, you know, there are concerns we have. Hopefully he will get to some professional care.
SPIRIT: Yeah. Well, you know, Dr. Drew, I mean, honestly I had to take a deep breath when I hear that. Just because I think about this and I see
dominoes in my head. It`s so dangerous when you have all of these people whose whose sobriety kind of hinges on each other and they`re trying to all
keep each other afloat. I mean, it`s just a dangerous situation all the way around.
PINSKY: It`s actually true. I`m not saying you can`t handle him, we`re saying get help.
PORTWOOD: We are keeping each other afloat.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Get help getting him help. That`s all.
PINSKY: That`s all it is. We`re not -- we`re not doctors.
PORTWOOD: No. We`re just trying to help him move towards the right direction so that he can get the help that we saw it and maybe, you know,
in the end it will be a different story.
BAIER: We`re also the part of the family that hasn`t turned their back on him because of his addiction. We want him to know that we`re gonna be here
and we love him.
PORTMAN: Who understand.
PINKSY: Are you comfortable with that, Chris?
BAIER: Absolutely.
PINKSY: Are you comfortable having this -- this conversation?
BAIER: Yeah.
PINKSY: Okay. Every one just wishes you the best. It`s a tough illness.
BAIER: Right. I mean, everybody does a bunch of dumb things. I`ve been dumb, I guess. I have seek help before. Gotten a lot of help before.
PINKSY: Okay. So, you`ve been in and out of treatment before?
BAIER: Yeah.
PINKSY: Okay. All right. I`ve got more with Amber and Matt after this quick break.
[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(START VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Hey there. How are you?
PORTWOOD: I`m good.
PINKSY: What were the crimes that got you here?
PORTWOOD: The original one that I was in jail for the first time was the domestic violence with Gary and then getting possession of pills and then
drug court. I actually said to the judge, send me to prison.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINKSY: Back with MTV`s Teen Mom OG star, Amber Portwood. And I`ve got Spirit with me as well and her fiance, Matt Baier. Amber, we had the
conversation back in 2012. You still feel like begging the judge to put you away was the right thing?
PORTWOOD: Honestly, I say yes, but nobody wants to go that route. It`s just I was so bull headed and to much into my addiction.
PINSKY: Yeah.
PORTWOOD: Nothing would gonna help me accept where I was either going to prison or I was going to die.
PINKSY: I thought it saved your life.
PORTWOOD: It did save my life. It really did. I just -- I don`t want other addicts to do something so drastic in order to get their lives together. I
wish there were more programs out there to really help people who didn`t make the decision yet to get clean.
PINKSY: Yeah, I know. You want to address the co-dependency issue that Spirit and I have concerns about. Go ahead.
PORTWOOD: I feel like we`re co-dependents in certain ways, you know, but we`re so attached and we have so much in common that this is odd for us to
-- to want to be next to each other so much. We`ve never had relationships like that I`ve never had a relationship where I wanted to be next to
somebody all the time.
It does take its toll on us. I feel it that our co-dependency doesn`t come from our addiction or our past things. It`s simply we just love each other
that much that we`re able to do that. Not many people are.
I just wanted people to know that -- that this is a strong bond and there`s a reason why I`m with somebody 20 years older than me. It`s not because
anything else. There`s a bond there.
That`s why I`m with this man. We have a good relationship and we`ve been through the ringer and we`re still together. This isn`t going anywhere. If
it was, I mean, I would be honest about it. We`re happy together.
PINSKY: I can vouch for the changes I`ve seen in you. And I`ve seen you change through treatment and that was positive. I`ve seen you change in the
course of this relationship. It seems to have a net positive effect on you.
PORTWOOD: Yeah.
PINSKY: I can vouch for that. You`re a very different person over the years that I`ve known you. It`s gone the right way. I would think if Matt were
indeed an anchor or anvil, there would be a lot more trouble.
PORTWOOD: Yeah.
PINSKY Matt, this is for you to set the record straight. Are there things you want to address before you wrap things up?
BAIER: We`re happy. We`re happy family. And yes, I made a ton of mistakes in my past. I own them. I do.
PINSKY: Any one specifically you want to put out there so people don`t keep throwing their back at you?
BAIER: I think I used a lot of people back in the day. I -- I used a lot of people for -- for all kinds of reasons. I was never a person to
intentionally hurt anybody in the moment when I was in my addiction, which I don`t blame my addiction for everything.
I was just a selfish person when I was younger. I think that I was very selfish in the sense where what I wanted was important and what anybody
else wanted was not important. If people got hurt in the process, I just self-medicated and didn`t care.
PINSKY: Why should people believe you care now?
BAIER: I`m not sure if they should believe it but it`s the truth. I do care.
PORTWOOD: It`s coming out of somebody that`s sober now.
PINSKY: Again, the only -- the only thing I would share with you guys in parting is I`ve said it to you before is get that secure base going. Get a
sponsor back in your life. You`re going to be trying to help your son. That`s going to be treacherous for you. You need that secure base to
operate from.
BAIER: Right.
PINSKY: And, you know, I want to see you guys continue to thrive. I appreciate you coming in. I hope this sets it straight. I have no doubt
they will keep coming at you. You`ve been a favorite target, Amber. Matt seems to have taken the mantle.
PORTWOOD: He`s coming with me.
BAIER: We have that in common.
[20:00:00] PINSKY: All right, guys. Reminder, watch Teen Mom OG, the Original Girls, with Amber and Matt tonight at 9 on MTV. Thank you all for
watching. Nancy Grace is next.
END
